Guild Wars 2

Gameindustry.biz had the opportunity to interview Leah Hoyer narrative head of Arenanet. She talked about her visions and approaches for the storytelling in MMORPGs. This gives us a quite clear vision what we can expect for the storytelling in regard to the LW.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-11-25-game-industry-coming-around-on-story-hoyer

a small quote:

“You very much get that sense of the story, the sense of the world, just by playing through it,” Hoyer said.

For Guild Wars, Hoyer wants to embrace that ambient storytelling approach instead of overloading players with long-winded cutscenes or lore dumps between missions. That’s not to say she dislikes the world-building aspects of so many MMO games, just that she wants to handle it as something other than a “lore dump.”

“I think lore is excellent. And I know there’s a particular type of gamer who absolutely loves it,” Hoyer said. “For many people, that’s why they play games, because they want to understand the complete world, they want to understand how all the different pieces are related to each other, how these characters might have encountered each other in the past and how they may encounter each other in the future. But one thing we’ve always wanted to make really clear is backstory and mythos isn’t story. What you’re actually doing when you’re in the game is very much about the time you’re in the game. It is such a here-and-now, in-the-present media. You know that if you don’t shoot that guy fast enough, he’s going to shoot you and you’re going to die. In the same way, your story should be about the present.”

The past is what brought us to the present and much of what we do in the present depends on what we want from the future, which in turn is influenced by what we’ve experienced (or not) in the past.

Past, present, future, all are one in Yog Sothoth!

Er, I mean, shoot or be shot isn’t much of a story. For there to be a story, there must be a reason to shoot (or be shot), beyond mere survival. Otherwise, you might as well watch/play esports…

It might be better if the link and titled references were to the current game. That site should really update their information.

I wonder who was Narrative Lead before? Rees? Did someone get replaced? Or is this a new position created just for Leah. Would be interesting to find out…at least, for me.

The ‘Two Brothers’ game videos on their site are interesting, from a story-telling viewpoint. Perhaps that is what Guild Wars 2 can look forward to.

It will be interesting to see how Leah will implement her visions. At least we can say the Arenanet will focus more on storytelling and its attraction. It seems that the LW will become the core concept.

She doesn’t seem to saying anything new. The original game world was entirely created with that same vision. The open world events tell the current world lore. After events finish you can chat to the NPCs for backstory.

I don’t think she has worded what she is saying particularly well, but in essence she is correct. Mythos/world building is a great skill and even more skill is required not to ram it down people’s throats whilst keeping it prominent (unless you are Tolkien who seems the exception to every fantasy rule).

Not many writers in literature pull it off nowadays, I am intrigued to see how GW2 moves forward with this vision.

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

Is she responsible for creating all that living story story stuff? Its could be explanation why we must again and again fight all those plants and dealing with sylvari and all this girl style stuff:-)

I had to bite my tongue concerning that post, so I will just +1 yours, instead, FF.

Thanks, Gaile. I think that would probably be more lucrative, and less confusing. =)

Rozbuska.5263:

Is she responsible for creating all that living story story stuff? Its could be explanation why we must again and again fight all those plants and dealing with sylvari and all this girl style stuff:-)

lolwut?

I think the biggest effect you see is that hardly anyone dies, well that was until the recent patch but at least no one too concerning or to make the story too gloomy i mean sure so and so died but it was obvious too a lot of people and not very ‘omg!’ and the people were careless anyway.

I don’t know but the story never really feels dark even the slightest i would even say some Disney films have way darker undertones than gw2.

Well, Leah has only been on board since September, so I would not expect her influence to be noticeable except in the last few (couple?) of patches. I’m guessing it takes at least a couple of months (probably longer) for patches to be ready for release.

vectorfox.6894:

I think the biggest effect you see is that hardly anyone dies, well that was until the recent patch but at least no one too concerning or to make the story too gloomy i mean sure so and so died but it was obvious too a lot of people and not very ‘omg!’ and the people were careless anyway.

I don’t know but the story never really feels dark even the slightest i would even say some Disney films have way darker undertones than gw2.

I think someone dieing isn’t making a great story at all. Use this once and it can be quite emotional (Tybalt for example). Use it all the time and the effect wear off quite fast. It’s a boring trick to eliminate the characters you like again and again and again.

Pirlipat.2479:

I think someone dieing isn’t making a great story at all. Use this once and it can be quite emotional (Tybalt for example). Use it all the time and the effect wear off quite fast. It’s a boring trick to eliminate the characters you like again and again and again.

Yeah, I’d have to agree with that. Not every story has to have the George RR Martin treatment.

Rozbuska.5263:

Is she responsible for creating all that living story story stuff? Its could be explanation why we must again and again fight all those plants and dealing with sylvari and all this girl style stuff:-)

Seriously?

Leah, I wish you the best of luck. Know that there’s a silent group of us who love your work and can see the incredible amount of time and effort you’ve put into it. Despite the fact that we are “gamers” we can see beyond the fact that your reproductive parts are on the inside instead of the outside. Don’t let Mysogony like this deter you.

Disney stories are timeless and only work because the core of the story appeals to adults as much as children. That requires skill and care in the crafting of a story, and it’s why a book like the Hobbit, or Harry Potter, or the Hunger Games, all written for children, can have such loyal adult followings.

Not that I personally believe the story in gw2 is at all young-adult in nature.

And those of you who think the story in gw2 is never dark should go read the memorial wall in LA again.

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

Sleeping Beauty says hello for adult storytelling. Likewise, “Aladdin”, despite having ol Robin Williams . . . or how about other things, like Pete’s Dragon? (Hey, child slavery! >thumbsup<) Or Black Hole?

I know they’re synonymous with “lighter and softer” but seriously . . . Disney had enough to hit people hard. Want proof? I’m about to say something, so trigger warning for an entire generation:

Bambi’s Mother.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

Sleeping Beauty says hello for adult storytelling. Likewise, “Aladdin”, despite having ol Robin Williams . . . or how about other things, like Pete’s Dragon? (Hey, child slavery! >thumbsup<) Or Black Hole?

I know they’re synonymous with “lighter and softer” but seriously . . . Disney had enough to hit people hard. Want proof? I’m about to say something, so trigger warning for an entire generation:

Bambi’s Mother.

Old Yeller.

I don’t think she worked with Sleeping beauty, Aladdin or Old Yeller.

Her disney background, not disney itself.

I guess he could have been saying that she is tainted because she worked with disney.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Old Yeller.

Can we go for the trifecta? I think we can.

The Ending to Toy Story 3

Fernling.1729:

I don’t think she worked with Sleeping beauty, Aladdin or Old Yeller.

Her disney background, not disney itself.

Well, see, since the demeaning and belittling started with a lack of common sense, why did you have to go bring some into it?

Sheesh. This is the internet, common sense has no place here. Now hold my soda, I’ve got some Counter Monkey to watch.

I post links with constructive criticism and it gets moved to Linksville. A link posted with praise stays in general chat. So frustrating.

You guys left out the most heartbreaking Disney movie of all: John Carter. They didn’t just kill off a character, they killed the possibility of anybody ever doing another John Carter movie ever again (and maybe doing it right next time). And they did it on the 100th anniversary of the first novel in the series, A Princess of Mars.

Welcome, Edgar Rice Burroughs fans, to the Wonderful World of Face Slappage!

I just appreciate the fact that she is here now and she seems to be respecting the lore of the world, especially GW1 lore. That is actually one of the few reasons why I continue to play this game, because the original game managed to enthrall me so much. I was heartbroken as well at how many mysteries from GW1 went unresolved or left unclear. Hopefully with Leah she will love the GW1 wiki and it’s many, many pages of lore and will find ways to incorporate them into new content, like the datamine of the world map that is currently being translated. That day was christmas!

GW1 actually has cutscenes with talking and action, and ‘loredumps’ when talking to NPCs.

She is basically saying they don’t want that in GW2 … absolutely terrible. GW1 story and representation is 10x superior to GW2.

The ‘lore’ (pathetic amounts) you get from talking to an NPC after an event in GW2 is completely negligible and hardly tells you anything.

It’s just an excuse to put less work in and less lore for the players. ‘little tidbits’ is the mantra here. So basically, the lore and story will continue to suck and move at snails pace ‘because we’re different, teehee!’.

Keep on reinventing that wheel ANet.. seems to be working flawlessly so far.

I don’t want characters I like dying >_< I want a fun game not a depressing one.

kitten .9460:

GW1 actually has cutscenes with talking and action, and ‘loredumps’ when talking to NPCs.

She is basically saying they don’t want that in GW2 … absolutely terrible. GW1 story and representation is 10x superior to GW2.

Hehe. No.

Infodumps forced into conversation are a terrible way to do exposition.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kitten .9460:

GW1 actually has cutscenes with talking and action, and ‘loredumps’ when talking to NPCs.

She is basically saying they don’t want that in GW2 … absolutely terrible. GW1 story and representation is 10x superior to GW2.

Hehe. No.

Infodumps forced into conversation are a terrible way to do exposition.

Forced? Did you play GW1? Obviously not.

kitten .9460:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kitten .9460:

GW1 actually has cutscenes with talking and action, and ‘loredumps’ when talking to NPCs.

She is basically saying they don’t want that in GW2 … absolutely terrible. GW1 story and representation is 10x superior to GW2.

Hehe. No.

Infodumps forced into conversation are a terrible way to do exposition.

Forced? Did you play GW1? Obviously not.

Oh, really, you should know better than to throw that around. I played it, I beat it, and if I had an ounce of PvP skill I probably would have gotten God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals before I stopped. Instead I chased the grindy titles (which by the way, is fun to reference when people talk about how there wasn’t any grind in the games) . . . and gave up on those. But regardless!

Yes. Forced into conversation, as in an unnatural way of placing the information through dialogue which isn’t normal. Magister Ela Makkay’s little script in “The Origins of Madness” to recap Season One? That’s exactly one example, but in Guild Wars 1 it had its ‘loredumps’ in places.

It also had an incredibly poor cliche storm of a campaign (Prophecies), a story which had wasteful infighting as its central theme and attraction (Factions), and the mother of all Arc Welding attempts (Nightfall). Oh, and Poorly Disguised Pilot (Eye of the North, Beyond).

GW1 wasn’t better than GW2 in terms of story, it just seemed like it due to the stages being smaller and the presentation being more . . . personal and scripted, via the ability to set up Missions as they do. But oh, Lyssa save me, I enjoyed it because it at least grew better with the pacing problems Prophecies had. Two years later Nightfall had the pacing much better.

Hey, what do you know, two years later for GW2 and Living Story Season Two has the pacing mostly improved over the previous two bits. It’s like deja vu.

For the record that seems to be all opinion and I enjoyed all the games and expansions, each one for different reasons. Prophecies itself was a great title which may have had a few too many missions, but the story presentation did an excellent job of establishing the world. Factions had the ‘pointless fighting’ as you say but the story definitely served it’s purpose for gameplay reasons which it executed very well and finally nightfall was a higher quality and the direction they chose to go in did a good enough job of ‘arc welding’ everything together. I sound like some kind of defensive white knight, but hey they did a good job and included literally hundreds of hours worth of lore and reading. GW2 has nothing like that at all and why I stand by my statement of incorporating more previously established lore, because it’s at least available. GW2 has extreme lore potential and it’s fallen flat with season one and season two is getting better but only time will tell.

Interesting read and together with the current quality and quantity of the Living Story, which I can enjoy at my leisure, I’m looking forward to seeing more.
The silverwastes are huge with more than just one layer, be it the mechanics or the geography.

Adding and opening new areas while being played in creates a very natural feeling of growth for the story while offering the option to explore and discover new things.
It’s not just popping a mega boss here and there without warning and so far I haven’t perceived anything as a “because reasons” like I did during LS1.

I would love to see a “lore dump” summarizing LS1 via those beautiful art pieces similar to the “this is my story” start of GW2.
Make it a “And this was her (Scarlet) story” and place it in the priory library as one book per chapter. Have us watch a cut-scene instead of reading it (just like losing oneself in a great book) and I can wait for another year or two to replay the LS1 parts that I missed.

If speculations are true about replaying Caith’s past, I’m also confident that a re-release of LS1 will work just fine without making me feel you’re using the players as beta testers.

Overall, things that are being experimented on seem to work really nice. The option to do open world PvP, really dynamic events with actual pushing back of player efforts, a reward structure that fits different play styles, giving players “roles” such as being a defender, escorting supply or calling in air support, the necessity to work together to get chests and of course preventing the strange situation where one fails an event because it is more rewarding than having it succeed.

Any play style seems to work and so far I have yet to read a single chat message where somebody complains about player x participating too much/little.

Oh and I’ll never ask for henchmen again since I can now fight along side main characters I know and even starting to like. Best thing, you can still bring friends, where you guys could consider upping the difficulty and rewards with more players involved.

Feels great, thank you!

Any chance we could dig for chests in dry top as well? I never quite understood why chests are only visible during a sandstorm when you can’t see much.

Again, the entire team has done a great job so far. I’m sure it’s going to reflect in more gem sales apart from the purchases wales did.

Love Taimi’s new mentor

And thank you, thank you, thank you for making Kas and Jory finally stop the lovey dovey and take the whole thing more serious.

On a side note, perhaps somebody actually reads this, have you guys ever considered selling a head start to the new areas/story? To see how popular paying for content would be? To ease some of the every-week-10$-new-skin thing…

gobble gobble

I think Tobias has the right of it, here, despite dropping trope names as if that’s the only thing that’s important about a story. GW1’s storytelling style is fairly perfunctory, and only towards Nightfall does it get to a point where characters are sympathetic and have personality, and a story that you can follow over a long period.

I’m personally puzzled over ArenaNet’s push to put story first in the live game because the area design, art direction and exploration-focused gameplay appeared to be the game’s strong suits, much more than the story. Even in the living story, what the audience seems to respond to is big reveals and lore moments over characters or their interactions being done especially well. This isn’t to knock the writing team, in the same way that I don’t intend to knock the theatre company putting on a neat musical in my town when I point out they’re not in the running for a Tony while putting on shows here, but I think the focus is odd.

The reason I bring this up is that, in the interview, Leah mentions the possibilities of storytelling in games, and it doesn’t seem like she’s thinking much about the potential of telling stories through gameplay. One of the problems MMO developers have with storytelling is that they struggle with making their main characters relevant to the story, because they’re never allowed to take into account what the PC does or who they are. I’ve never played an MMO where the fact that I’m a, warlock, say, ever has a large bearing on the plot – imagine how unsatisfying the TV show Phineas and Ferb would be if the title characters never had problems that their hyper-competent engineering didn’t cause, or couldn’t fix. Single-player games handle this much better. The Quest for Glory series was famous for providing four paths through the game. Failbetter’s games demonstrate a way of dealing with the combinatorial explosion, by assembling stories out of a series of carefully written vignettes, which can be swapped out as necessary and branch only very occasionally. I would love it if the fact that I can apply poison, or reflect attacks, ended up being the reason why I was able to do the thing and save Tyria, rather than me being in the right place at the right time and being capable of doing enough damage per second.

But there’s real potential in using the mechanics themselves as a storytelling tool, which ArenaNet is in a surprisingly strong place to take advantage of thanks to the writing team’s obsession with coming up with justifications for the game mechanics. Games like Papers, Please show the strength of creatively using a small toolbox of mechanics to communicate the emotion of a system in a way that’s harder to do in narrative-driven media, and a game like Thomas Was Alone and Bastion demonstrates how fairly conventional tools like narration can be used in concert with game mechanics to communicate tone, character and emotion. I don’t know if Leah has looked into these games, but if ArenaNet are serious about being great at storytelling, and not merely competent, they’re going to need to master the medium they’re working in. (I can imagine, for instance, the way events flow being used to communicate the hostility of a desert environment – players only have one event active close to town, and as things stabilise events gets further and further out, but when one fails everything scales up harder and harder as the environment pushes back, until there’s a cascade of failures and they’re back to hiding in a small patch of cover, hoping the water will last.)

Merus.9475:

I think Tobias has the right of it, here, despite dropping trope names as if that’s the only thing that’s important about a story. GW1’s storytelling style is fairly perfunctory, and only towards Nightfall does it get to a point where characters are sympathetic and have personality, and a story that you can follow over a long period.

Trope names make it easy to illustrate, a shorthand for those who know them. They’re not the only thing important but they do shortcut having to explain things further. It’s like not needing to explain things such as “topdeck” or “mill” for MTG, “gut-shot straight” for poker, or “bunker” for players here

The reason I bring this up is that, in the interview, Leah mentions the possibilities of storytelling in games, and it doesn’t seem like she’s thinking much about the potential of telling stories through gameplay.

Because it’s a harder target to hit properly, and if your players don’t like the gameplay then storytelling through it falls flat . . . or they never get far enough for it to make sense.

And, honestly, some of the better stories told through gameplay I’ve seen have been entirely unintentional by the designers and handled by players. Boatmurdered, for instance.

As a female writer and a fan of Disney, i am looking forwards to what you bring to the table. Seems a lot of people here mistake ‘Disney’ for ‘children’ and yes while those stories do appeal to kids and are marketed as such…

Disney has some of the most incredibly dark themes and adult storytelling woven into the narrative. It’s just not ‘in your face’ like blatant movies often are.

Oh, and also one of my favorite authors, a woman, writes an incredibly gritty, dark and adult werewolf novel series which does NOT hold back on the gore detail, seriously, so less of the ‘women write girly girly stuff’ rubbish please.

I haven’t done any of the living world yet, its unlocked but im leveling a new character up to enjoy it.

Tachenon.5270:

You guys left out the most heartbreaking Disney movie of all: John Carter. They didn’t just kill off a character, they killed the possibility of anybody ever doing another John Carter movie ever again (and maybe doing it right next time). And they did it on the 100th anniversary of the first novel in the series, A Princess of Mars.

Welcome, Edgar Rice Burroughs fans, to the Wonderful World of Face Slappage!

Absolutely. Biggest movie disappointment of all time for me (only Starship Troopers comes even close).

Just keep in mind Something Wicked This Way Comes was a Disney movie.

When I was quite young, many, many moons ago, I just loved Ray Bradbury’s works. I was not aware Disney adapted any of his work.

Or is that something else with the same name? I’m clueless…lol.

It’s based on the Ray Bradbury work, but think of it as more a premise for the movie. It’s still a kitten ed good movie.

Is that the one that starred Rod Steiger? I watched that many moon ago, as well. Is that the Disney one?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Is that the one that starred Rod Steiger? I watched that many moon ago, as well. Is that the Disney one?

It starred Jason Robards and Johnathan Pryce. Came out in the early 1980s, and yes, it’s a Disney film.

Ahh..different film, then, I guess. Thanks for the info.

Or, I’m just dense…lol…that was ‘The Illustrated Man’. Same author, wrong story. Duh! Didn’t think it seemed like a Disney film. Lol.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kitten .9460:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kitten .9460:

GW1 actually has cutscenes with talking and action, and ‘loredumps’ when talking to NPCs.

She is basically saying they don’t want that in GW2 … absolutely terrible. GW1 story and representation is 10x superior to GW2.

Hehe. No.

Infodumps forced into conversation are a terrible way to do exposition.

Forced? Did you play GW1? Obviously not.

Oh, really, you should know better than to throw that around. I played it, I beat it, and if I had an ounce of PvP skill I probably would have gotten God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals before I stopped. Instead I chased the grindy titles (which by the way, is fun to reference when people talk about how there wasn’t any grind in the games) . . . and gave up on those. But regardless!

Yes. Forced into conversation, as in an unnatural way of placing the information through dialogue which isn’t normal. Magister Ela Makkay’s little script in “The Origins of Madness” to recap Season One? That’s exactly one example, but in Guild Wars 1 it had its ‘loredumps’ in places.

It also had an incredibly poor cliche storm of a campaign (Prophecies), a story which had wasteful infighting as its central theme and attraction (Factions), and the mother of all Arc Welding attempts (Nightfall). Oh, and Poorly Disguised Pilot (Eye of the North, Beyond).

GW1 wasn’t better than GW2 in terms of story, it just seemed like it due to the stages being smaller and the presentation being more . . . personal and scripted, via the ability to set up Missions as they do. But oh, Lyssa save me, I enjoyed it because it at least grew better with the pacing problems Prophecies had. Two years later Nightfall had the pacing much better.

Hey, what do you know, two years later for GW2 and Living Story Season Two has the pacing mostly improved over the previous two bits. It’s like deja vu.

I’ve played both games as well, was playing GW1 from the beginning, and I have to disagree with you. I believe GW1 storylines are head-and-shoulders above anything we’ve gotten in GW2. I think many could argue the merits of both games and there’ll never be a clear winner. It probably just boils down to personal preference. I love lore!

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

The fact that she’s from Disney doesn’t worry me, but this quote from the interview does;
“The thing about television is that television from the get-go assumes that story is the most important thing,” Hoyer said. “And because of that, they’ve gotten really good at telling stories”

Storytelling on television is quite anemic, Two and a half Men anyone?!

BilboBaggins.5620:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

The fact that she’s from Disney doesn’t worry me, but this quote from the interview does;
“The thing about television is that television from the get-go assumes that story is the most important thing,” Hoyer said. “And because of that, they’ve gotten really good at telling stories”

Storytelling on television is quite anemic, Two and a half Men anyone?!

Using a sitcom as an example isn’t the best thing. :p Carnivale, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones (even though it’s based on actual novels, it’s also got kitten good screenwriters and tells the story in its own way), etc. Those are good examples of how TV can tell good stories and be very good at it.

BilboBaggins.5620:

I’ve played both games as well, was playing GW1 from the beginning, and I have to disagree with you. I believe GW1 storylines are head-and-shoulders above anything we’ve gotten in GW2. I think many could argue the merits of both games and there’ll never be a clear winner. It probably just boils down to personal preference. I love lore!

Ehh, I don’t see it as “head and shoulders” above GW2. There are parts which are good, certainly, and we probably would agree on them. But go back and replay Prophecies and tell me it wasn’t a sad . . . sad example like the Personal Story is in GW2. I mean, sure, there’s potential but in both cases it’s lost in the mess.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

The fact that she’s from Disney doesn’t worry me, but this quote from the interview does;
“The thing about television is that television from the get-go assumes that story is the most important thing,” Hoyer said. “And because of that, they’ve gotten really good at telling stories”

Storytelling on television is quite anemic, Two and a half Men anyone?!

In rebuttal: Castle, The Mentalist, Person of Interest, Grimm, Blue Bloods, Gracepoint. (You could add Doctor Who in there too, but the writing is so uneven on that show from episode to episode I hesitate to call it “awesome” . . . except Blink. Blink was awesome.)

That’s all basic, by the way. If you go to cable you can add in The Walking Dead. If you go premium, Boardwalk Empire, Game of Thrones, and The Newsroom.

It’s not anemic all across the board, it’s just really pushed aside for reality TV and trying to start up sitcoms people want to see instead of tuning out after half a season. Or stranded on cable where you have to pay for it.

RoseofGilead.8907:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Blackmoon.6837:

I just hope there’s more concern for serious and adult storytelling. Her Disney background is leaving me rather skeptical.

The fact that she’s from Disney doesn’t worry me, but this quote from the interview does;
“The thing about television is that television from the get-go assumes that story is the most important thing,” Hoyer said. “And because of that, they’ve gotten really good at telling stories”

Storytelling on television is quite anemic, Two and a half Men anyone?!

Using a sitcom as an example isn’t the best thing. :p Carnivale, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones (even though it’s based on actual novels, it’s also got kitten good screenwriters and tells the story in its own way), etc. Those are good examples of how TV can tell good stories and be very good at it.

Carnivale wasn’t . . . all that good. See, it suffered a problem like Lost in there being questions but answers coming very slowly. And yes, I have both boxed sets because I loved rewatching it more than watching it.

I never saw The Wire or Breaking Bad, OR The Walking Dead (I have a high aversion to zombie fiction). I won’t judge them but from all I hear they were excellent drama series. Really what you have to look for is who’s involved – there are a few names you should pay attention to.

(Like knowing if you see Berman or Braga near the writing or production credits, you should keep booze handy.)

But for instance: love him or hate him, Joss Whedon can do well with his characters and actors. You might not like all his work (I couldn’t stand Buffy very much) but some of it is amazingly done (what little we got of Firefly, and Avengers). And J.J Abrams will back a lot of fun things to see if they hit or miss – uneven results but it’s rarely not worth the time.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer had some great stuff.

If I had to pick an example of good television storytelling I’d have to go with a show that was cancelled before the end of it’s first season; Firefly!