Introduced a friend. So ashamed...
People will always complain. Before all I could read was, I got to 80 quickly, now what? Have nothing to do.
Year later… I need many hours to get to level 20, game so hard I have locked imba skills…
But some of things people complain are just ridiculous. Like game didn’t tell you there is dodging till level 6?… Are u seriously crying because of this? This is on top of your list of your concerns… You don’t know about dodging till you’re level 6? WOW… Usually people check keybinds before they start playing so u can check it there. But also considering u might play this game for 1000s of hours, and you complaining that u might not know about dodging for like a…. first hour of game? Yea it might take u an hour or two to get to level 6 if u play snail mode.
Also u are returning player, yet your friend was grinding mobs in gw2? Are both of you blind or something? Nobody is grinding mobs for exp in gw2. There is big line on bottom of your screen that represent your xp. So you as an experienced player didn’t notice you get like half of that bar by completing one heart? Both of you didn’t see many hearts scattered around world? Dynamic events? Someone actually go and grind mobs in gw2? It seems to me that you have enough knowledge about game to not suggest your friend grinding mobs, what I think is really going on here is, you just wanna complain and finding some ridiculous reasons.
WvW and Pvp are not locked, this is just straight up lie.
And as someone who leveled 10 characters to level 80 (2 of them were under npe system) the only thing that is wrong is new trait system. For new player, yea they might not feel it much. But as someone who played game already for year or more, making alts become boring, unless u don’t mind paying gold to unlock traits.
But 90% of your rant post is garbage.
Gunnar’s Hold
I bought a mule account at the sale a month ago and decided to play one character a bit, to see what the NPE feels like.
I don’t agree with most of the points of the OP. The experience was mostly ok, and I actually enjoyed most of the way to (currently) 70. There are only a few things I have to criticize. Some are present since release, not only since the NPE change:
- hiding some gameplay elements from the very first levels like skill point challenges. This causes more confusion than it solves, because veterans speak about these points, but you as new player aren’t able to see such things!
- leveling is too fast to keep up with the equipment. You are constantly playing with totally outdated armor and weapons. There are still not enough fitting drops to outfit oneself with current equipment.
- no hints and notes if your equipment is grossly underleveled and you should upgrade
- the features you get at level-up aren’t explained anywhere. And the level-up usually comes in the middle of some action, where you simply click it away and don’t really read and understand it. There should be some information page within the game where you can read all the notes about the features you were getting while you are safe and have the time to study them.
- getting the traits is absolutely awful. A new player don’t have the skill points to buy the traits (he has to spend them for the utility skills), so he must play some event to get it. But some things are nothing for a new player, like the giant in the Harathi Hinterlands, which nobody knows. You don’t even have a waypoint or point of interest to ping on the map. Or doing some WvW jumping puzzle – no way. This causes the situation that new players will go without eqipped traits.
- irritating: I got the first 2 account reward chests just after creating the first character. I connected my secondary GW1 account to this mule account and got 500 account points. I assume this is confusing, and also not appropriate for a totally new player. Getting this reward should be postponed.
- starting with about level 60 your damage output lowers and you must start working on your equipment, trait points and traits. Building your build. This isn’t mentioned anywhere. New players are frustrated at this point and some will give up the game eventually, because enemies get stronger than they were before, even in starting areas due to the level scaling. I very well remembered this point on my first character 2 years ago. This hasn’t changed since.
- PvP and WvW not available right from the start. This leads to confusion when veterans tell new players about the game options and general features.
- scaling of the reward chests and champion bags. Starting from level 35, a player should get them and should get rare items out of them.
- it is still not possible for a new account to level someone’s crafting in parallel to the character level, so he can craft his own equipment while leveling his first character. You don’t either have enough money, or enough crafting material.
Good things:
- XP boosts at the daily login rewards and daily achievements
- the free XP boosters given with the heroic edition. I started using them at level 20
- rewards and explicitly given features at level up
- equipment given in level up have mostly power/precision stats. Good.
The OP complained about other locked things like dodging or the trading post. This complaint is invalid, because features like this are available and usable right from the start, they were only mentioned at a later point.
Having read my post again, I come to the conclusion that the standard leveling process was probably too slow for me, and using boosters it was fine. I didn’t mention that I also used food and every other available booster like the festival booster from the daily login rewards.
(edited by Silmar Alech.4305)
The problem is that you are not a new player.
Completely new players that have not been “poisoned” with talks about how much the new system sucks seems to have no problems whatsoever with the new system.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Thats not exactly true OP. I too had a friend start the game with this discount and We’ve played twice with different characters. Not long sessions either and she got one to 8 and the other to 6
1. Dodging is not locked, takes a bit to come across a a little event that tells you about it. Thats better then before where you were never told about dodging yet everyone still knew about it. Adding a tutorial about something doesnt lock it away.
2. Vistas and skill challenges arent locked, Like I said she hasnt reached level 10 yet on either alt much less 13 yet we did both Vistas and skill changes together. (I too was on a sub level 10 character)
3. No heart, dynamic event, group event is locked so your statement that all you could do is grind mobs is false. If thats what you did it was by your own choice not something the game forced on you. We did events, hearts as well as a couple of group events.
4. Yes its true you only get access to new weapon skills at level 2,4,7 and 10 but its also true getting to level 10 is now a breeze. A single dynamic event is enough to go up a level in the level 2 range while 3 or so are enough to gain a level 10 range when before you needed to complete close to 14 dynamic events.
5. I am not sure when underwater combat locks but by the team we walked down to the lake in metrica Provence it was unlocked for us abit we only had access to 2 skills to be fair. Still I dont think there is another zone with closer water to the starting area so even if its locked at the start its really a none issue.
Your friend got bored at level 7 thats what 2 hrs into the game? s/he may have had 4 skill slots open but they could use different weapons so in truth they could have experimented with about 16 different skills.
I am sorry to say but if your friend got bored for lack to options at level 7 his/her issue is with MMOs in general not Gw2 specifically. even if they made it more restrictive than it was at launch its still more expansive then any other alternative out there. There simply isnt an mmo other I am aware off that gives you over 16 different still to play with in your first 2 hrs. In many you’d be lucky if you’d be given access to 3 different skills in that time frame.
But you Know I am starting to become a bit skeptic new players are actually complaining about this. I have a feeling its just veteran players using hyperbole to drive up their point which to me at least would be more understandable. During my play through with my friend I couldnt help but be said how the 2 little golem game thing in metrica no longer worked. How the heart next to the lake gave you a golem that runs after you instead of a golem to drive with their own set of skills etc.. While I was thinking its a pity the npe dumped the game down so much do you know what my friend said to me as we got underwater for the first time? She said how much stuff is there to do in this MMO? Its overwhelming! (btw this was not her first MMO she’s been playing them for years) And thinking about it she had a point. Here we were a couple of hours in the game and she had already experienced:
- A boss fight (tutorial)
- Dyes
- weapons with different skills
- Skills challenges
- Vistas
- Dodging
- 2 types of questing (dynamic events / Hearts)
- She was confused how a merchant she was using disappeared on her (he was part of a dynamic event that had triggered while she was messing with her inventory)
- underwater combat
- gathering
- downleveling (we over leveled the area)
- group events (we had a champion fight)
- 2 different starting areas for each of her characters
- using turrets which gives you a new skill
- 2 different classes that had their own different mechanics (she tried ele first then necro)
So yeah this was a bit underwhelming for me who knew how things were before but for her? This early in the game she had already experienced so many different content options then she was used to in other MMOs that she couldnt help and wonder how much stuff is there to do in this game? and thats without having experienced
dungeons, fractals, guild missions, mini dungeons, jumping puzzles, mini games, hidden areas, world bosses, meta events, living story, traits, utility skills,elite skills etc..
about 5hrs into the game bored is definitely one word she wouldn’t use to describe the game. So far she only had one complaint and plenty of praises. If you’re wondering her complaint was she’d love to have mounts.
The problem is that you are not a new player.
Completely new players that have not been “poisoned” with talks about how much the new system sucks seems to have no problems whatsoever with the new system.
How exactly do you know, lordkrall, without having engaged in similar talks with said new players? I’m oh so curious.
There are numerous other (merged) threads about this topic. While it is a bad decision I think people are overexaggerating it; if you don’t have even the patience to level the first couple of hours then why begin to play a game anyway? It’s not that you are locked to those limitations for the next weeks, it’s only a matter of hours.
I think it is far more limiting how we have to unlock traits if we decide to unlock them via in game events rather than buying the traits.
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
How exactly do you know, lordkrall, without having engaged in similar talks with said new players? I’m oh so curious.
Because every time this discussion turns up there seems to be new players posting about not having any issues with the new system?
It is also a matter of logic. If the new players have no information whatsoever about how things used to be, they have nothing to compare to, and thus it all seems natural and logical for them.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
The problem is that you are not a new player.
Completely new players that have not been “poisoned” with talks about how much the new system sucks seems to have no problems whatsoever with the new system.
How exactly do you know, lordkrall, without having engaged in similar talks with said new players? I’m oh so curious.
Even without the numerous posts by actual new players (though they mostly get lost in the flood of posts by vets), it’s simply a matter of common sense. If someone convinces you to play something, and then as soon as you actually start playing, they constantly complain and tell you how absolutely terrible everything is, then of course you’re going to get a negative impression of the game.
It’s quite hard to do, but one of the most important things when introducing someone to a new game is to let them experience it themselves. Be on hand to provide advice and tips if asked, but always let the new player take the lead. Let them discover the game themselves.
Hello! It’s been a while since I posted but I saw this and felt like I had to comment. When I first started playing Guild Wars 2 back when it launched I was in awe over how much freedom I had with… generally everything. The new trait points each level above ten made left me very excited to level. From adept to master and finally to grandmaster was so satisfying, it really made me feel self accomplished when I leveled my first character.
From personal experience, people do not like it when you hold their hands and tell them what to do every step of the way, a little guidance along the way is okay but let them discover everything on their own. The best player experience is self discovery.
Guild Wars 2 is not a sequel to the original Guild Wars but merely an alternative story setting.
I don’t get all the hate. It takes like a week to get level 20 and that’s taking your time and being a completionist. A little patience would have served you and your friend well. It is a great game.
If you playa terribly boring game for an entire week just to find out if it gets less boring at some point you are way to patient.
If a game is kitten for the first 2-3 hours, most people wont keep playing.
And why should they?
If the publisher cant bother to make the start fun (which is very easy), the rest of the game probably isnt better.
The problem is that you are not a new player.
Completely new players that have not been “poisoned” with talks about how much the new system sucks seems to have no problems whatsoever with the new system.
How exactly do you know, lordkrall, without having engaged in similar talks with said new players? I’m oh so curious.
Even without the numerous posts by actual new players (though they mostly get lost in the flood of posts by vets), it’s simply a matter of common sense. If someone convinces you to play something, and then as soon as you actually start playing, they constantly complain and tell you how absolutely terrible everything is, then of course you’re going to get a negative impression of the game.
It’s quite hard to do, but one of the most important things when introducing someone to a new game is to let them experience it themselves. Be on hand to provide advice and tips if asked, but always let the new player take the lead. Let them discover the game themselves.
Oh I agree that new players experiencing the game for the first time can be affected by negativity and their view may or may not change as a result.
I was taking issue with Lordkrall’s all encompassing statement about new players and how they “have no problems whatsoever” unless they’ve been corrupted by veteran disapproval. That it is only possible for new players to dislike the NPE if they’ve been warped by our attitude towards it and not their own.
While I don’t actually mind a lot of the NPE (some of it is awful, particularly the way telling people about future unlocks is handled), I haven’t recommended the game to anyone since the traits patch. The NPE is over in a few hours (though the starter maps remain boring and lifeless thanks to many of the interesting bits being removed), but the traits fiasco will stick with you well beyond level 80 on every. single. character.
While I don’t actually mind a lot of the NPE (some of it is awful, particularly the way telling people about future unlocks is handled), I haven’t recommended the game to anyone since the traits patch. The NPE is over in a few hours (though the starter maps remain boring and lifeless thanks to many of the interesting bits being removed), but the traits fiasco will stick with you well beyond level 80 on every. single. character.
Yeah thats pretty much the reason why I would actively encourage people to stay the hell away from GW2 at the moment.
There is too much stuff thats needs to be fixed in order to make the game fun again and I personally dont see why Anet didnt already fix traits after the fiasco like what, 9 months ago?
So everybody that asks me if GW2 is worth playing/starting gets a big no for the time being.
But the metrics said you need to be gated because you’re stupid.
THE METRICS
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.
The NPE should be a choice. When you start a new character it should ask you in character creation “Are you new to MMO’s like guild wars 2”? and if you say yes then you are opting into the NPE.
I love this suggestion! I know several other MMOs out there let you skip the “tutorial” phase of the game. It would be really nice to be able to do that here.
I can see some defense for slowly introducing players to new abilities and content rather than overwhelming them all at once (though admittedly maybe the current tuning is a little TOO slow), but I don’t see why my nth character needs to go through the same experience. I would love to be able to check off a box or something and be able to skip all of the NPE stuff.
So with the latest discount I urged a friend to get the game as I was getting back into it myself. And what I found was….upsetting? Disturbing?
Low-levels are a mess. From a launch message of ‘you can jump right in and PvP from level 1’ to everything being locked.
Skill 2 unlocked at lvl 2
Skill 3 unlocked at lvl 4
Lvl 6 you learn how to dodge
Skill 4 unlocked at lvl 7 (along with your off hand)
Skill 5 unlocked at lvl 10 (along with vistas)Skill buying and skill points locked until lvl 13
WvW locked until 18, PvP until 22My friend got bored at level 7 of there being nothing but grinding on mobs, pressing the same 4 buttons. So we quit out of the senseless boring low-level grind. I bought a load of mats and helped them craft-grind to lvl 18.
Now I know why lvl 20 boosts are showered on all of my characters.
I felt so ashamed having encouraged my friend to play the game only to realise that 99% of it was locked away because they were too low level and hadn’t unlocked it yet, hadn’t joined early enough to get it. Gone was the game that I had joined where it was ‘go and do whatever you want’ in exchange I’d found a game that slowly drip-fed you content like water torture more than an actually having fun.
It’s like ANet doesn’t trust its players to be able to pick up on everything. If that’s the case make the intro event the tutorial it was. Railroad people for 5 minutes to teach them, not 10-15 levels. Where lvl 1-20 is your weakest content you don’t want to be keeping new players there.
Locked things:
Dodging (by virtue of not telling players about it for ~6 levels)
Underwater Combat (note for Asura this unlocks long after the quest that used to get you to use it)
(Guilds?)
Skills
Skill Points and Challenges
Vistas
Traits
Trading Post
Crafting
WvW
PvPI look forward to adding more things that are locked.
1. The game is the same. If you choose to follow the arrow and be slowly drip-fed content, that’s your choice.
2. Your friend got bored because you were trying to grind xp from mobs. This was never intended to be a way to level in GW2, and was as boring on launch day as it is now.
3. You get past all the locked things in about 3 hours, if you actually play the game. Maybe 4 or 5 hours if you’re new and don’t know what you’re doing. (That’s all the things, btw – up to level 31. Most of them are unlocked in the first hour of play.)
4. Most of the things in your list of “locked things” aren’t actually locked. Like dodging, WvW, PvP. Or were locked behind requirements all along, like skills and traits.
5. Instead of whining to every new player about ‘how all these wonderful things we used to have right from the get-go are now locked,’ simply let them experience the game themselves, uncoloured by your opinion, and you’ll find they tend to enjoy it more.
2- is a lie, everyone knows that maxing out on boosters (xp, killstreak, laureate, celebration/birthday/halloween food) and killing yellow mobs or the Labyrinth from Mad King day are valid ways of leveling by grinding mobs ( Labyrinth is incredibly fun too).
3- is wrong trait lock outs are far more restrictive now moving from 10-60 to 30-80
4- new players don’t know there are portals to PvP or WvW in Lion’s arch and none of the new tips explains it either, not to mention that EOTM is completely blocked since there is no portal for that.
They did mess up a little bit with some of the unlocks.
I came back to the game after 1+ year hiatus. I am here because I was wondering what the hell happened in Queensdale, one of the quest is so lame now.. you “tend” to the plants, no more buckets of water to pick up.
That’s fine if it’s just for new players. But one thing they messed up is the undewater combat. Several times with low level characters I got to a heart or event near water, and was unable to fight anything due to not having the equipment.
Then again, it is likely due to my previous experience that I was racing through the content from heart to heart. It is less likely to happen to a totally new player.
Yes, the NPE changes will be a shock to old players, but I’ve heard from many new players that like the gradual format. I’ve leveled up a few characters since the NPE and the only thing I feel needs some tweaking is unlocking Traits.
BTW, once those game modes unlock, you can access them imediately with any new characters.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
From what I understand one of the reasons the NPE was put in place was to teach people the basic mechanics of the game. Before the NPE, there were a lot of complaints about people leveling and simply not understanding the basics of combat in GW2 (blasting fields, for instance). While the NPE does a lot of hand-holding, getting started is far more informative than before its advent. Yet another kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t for Anet. I would be very curious to know if any vets in here complaining about the NPE were amongst those complaining about players not knowing the basics of GW2. Considering the “sky is falling” nature of this forum, I would not be at all surprised.
For the new folks: Take some time to learn the game. The learning curve in GW2 is large. The NPE might be a bit of a slog, but it does teach you the ins and outs and could much improve your leveling experience.
I will say that I wouldn’t mind an option to toggle it on and off for us vets making alts.
4/1/15 forum meltdown survivor
2- is a lie, everyone knows that maxing out on boosters (xp, killstreak, laureate, celebration/birthday/halloween food) and killing yellow mobs or the Labyrinth from Mad King day are valid ways of leveling by grinding mobs ( Labyrinth is incredibly fun too).
3- is wrong trait lock outs are far more restrictive now moving from 10-60 to 30-80
4- new players don’t know there are portals to PvP or WvW in Lion’s arch and none of the new tips explains it either, not to mention that EOTM is completely blocked since there is no portal for that.
2. Not a lie. The game was not designed for you to level by grinding mobs. It was specifically designed with the intention that you level in other ways.
While it is technically possible to do without taking ridiculously interminably long (as opposed to normally interminably wrong) in specific circumstances, those circumstances are not available to the OP’s friend anyway. He won’t have a variety of boosters, or enough laurels. And the Labyrinth isn’t in the game at the moment or for most of the year… so your point isn’t really relevant.
In any case, whether or not it is possible or long, it is always invariably boring. Which is what the OP’s friend complained about.
3. The trait changes are not part of the NPE.
4. New players probably do not know that…. which is not a counter-argument to the fact that they are not level-locked.
Also, I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure people have said that you can press the ‘B’ button to bring up the WvW menu and enter like that anyway. The icon on the screen is gone, but using the shortcut still works for new players. If this is true, EotM would also be available.
Not sure why this is a thing considering they announced that the NPE is going to completely change soon from what I’ve read.
I’d suggest sticking around till at least the first patch of the changes to see what’s coming when it comes to traits etc and this is coming from someone who’s extremely critical of the problems this game faces.
You got a quote on that, I haven’t seen this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/4733414
“In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.”
I’m just saying at least wait until the patch to see what’s changed before making a judgement because of this announcement it might change NPE since there won’t be a traits unlock system in the future.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
2- Boosters are easily available from gemstore login rewards and black lion chests opened with keys from mapping/personal story, laurel boosters are cheap and you can always find yellow mobs in all maps including WvW. New players might not know but it’s incredibly efficient and available.
3 it was part of NPE
no the B menu is only unlocked for players who already have a lvl 22 that has been to wvw.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/4733414
“In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.”
I’m just saying at least wait until the patch to see what’s changed before making a judgement because of this announcement it might change NPE since there won’t be a traits unlock system in the future.
The trait system was not a part of the NPE actually, so don’t really see how that post is relevant to the NPE at all.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Most the content the OP talked about is there via shortcuts or just going to a VISTA for example.
However some of it is silly, like no underwater content or removing bundles such as feeding the cows in the starter zone, moving the harvesting nodes further away etc.
What seems to confuse many new players is the crafting, and where to go between levels 10-20 with the personal story, which needs addressing.
However according to ANET they did a big survey of NA players who said what confused them the most, and the NPE is the result.
They should have created a heart event, a Vista and a swimming pool, a dodging tutorial and a crafting exercise which included gathering the materials within the first instance your characters are created in. That would have covered many of the things the NPE is meant to help with. This would only happen the first time, then you could enable/disable tutorial mode.
I would say one argument against designing for new players is that this “new player” demographic is kind of la-la land, where is this mythical “new player” and can you really match many people into one category like that?
And secondly in my opinion something that’s being overlooked is that there actually is CHARM to a game when you are faced with many choices. The first time you play a RPG and you are faced with a lot of information, is not bad in itself. These are often rememberable experiences, and experiences people are fond of. When you discover so many things all at once. So when you drip-feed the information, there is one rationale that it smoothes the experience for this mythical “new player” creature (that apparently has never played other similar games, let alone any PC games?) .. but the actuality is that you remove this magical time of the game, when you are feeling overwhelmed, but in a good way.
I mean, there is a thing called the paradox of choice (and a good TED talk by the same name). However have you ever been paralyzed in a game like Guild Wars 2 in the early days? Of course not because you’re just showered with so many things and the early content is so easy anyway, that it doesn’t matter all too much, you just figure it out slowly.
The problem is one of “reactive” design. That’s when you start to believe the feedback from users whom you ask to look for a specific thing, then you sort of get what you are looking for. And now you are designing reactively instead of proactively. So you start modifying and redesigning things that worked just fine. Part of it is this problem of feeedback loop, and part of it is boredom and te fact that it’s difficult for developers to stop reiterating on something.
Anyway we could go on, but there is much more to this “new player experience” than the obvious points.
But to summarize I do think it is removing a magical experience, and that being overwhelmed with choices and information in a RPG game is, pradoxically perhaps, often a rememberable and positive experience, even if you wouldn’t describe it that way when asked about it. You would say “I ddin’t know I could do XYZ!” Why, yes, but that doesn’t meant it needed to be changed. It meant that the game was doing things precisely right: you didn’t know, and now you know. You learned something, and feel the satisfaction that comes with experience of playing a game and figuring out things.
Plus in a MMO of all things, and one which is lauded as having a good community… isn’t it what other players are for? To guide you and help you out? Isn’t that what glues the game together?
why do people keep saying traits are unrelated to NPE its in the NPE page
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/
I, too, am embarrassed enough about bringing more new players to the game. The traits are, by far, the most abysmal part of the current play experience, though the NPE doesn’t help with its relatively insulting approach that still does not clarify enough about the game.
I’ve had to steer other people away as well, which is sad, because I bought the way in for two of my friends so they could try the game.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
2- Boosters are easily available from gemstore login rewards and black lion chests opened with keys from mapping/personal story, laurel boosters are cheap and you can always find yellow mobs in all maps including WvW. New players might not know but it’s incredibly efficient and available.
3 it was part of NPE
no the B menu is only unlocked for players who already have a lvl 22 that has been to wvw.
2. Meaning, not at all available to a new player, unless they spend unnecessary amounts of money to buy the ones that can be bought from the gemstore. Gotcha.
Also, not intended to be the way you level. And boring.
3. No it isn’t. Trait changes were introduced in Feature Patch 1, in April 2014. The NPE happened in Feature Patch 2, in September 2014. Seriously, do some basic research.
4. I’m going to need something more than your word for this, since you don’t seem particularly informed about other things.
why do people keep saying traits are unrelated to NPE its in the NPE page
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/
There is a grand total of one mentioning of the word traits there. Which even outright states that it was not being released as part of the NPE.
Our last feature pack also changed traits to no longer require going to a merchant and buying a book at each tier to unlock them; you unlock a tier for free as soon as you reach the appropriate level.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
why do people keep saying traits are unrelated to NPE its in the NPE page
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/
Because the trait changes were in April the NPE was in September -
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/
[BAD] a casual PvE guild on Aurora Glade.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
http://bad-eu.guildlaunch.com
The Family Deuce. Asuran Adventure Specialists.
I, too, am embarrassed enough about bringing more new players to the game. The traits are, by far, the most abysmal part of the current play experience, though the NPE doesn’t help with its relatively insulting approach that still does not clarify enough about the game.
I’ve had to steer other people away as well, which is sad, because I bought the way in for two of my friends so they could try the game.
Embarrassed? Seriously? Is it really That bad? You’ve steered people away, yet here you are at the forums offering your two cents? It’s just a kittening game. If you’re a new player, playing without traits really shouldn’t make any difference at all. For vets making alts, yes, lack of traits is pretty annoying, but for a new player the NPE puts you through your paces and prepares you instead of being bludgeoned with all sorts of different abilities and strategically mashing the keyboard once you reach more difficult content. If you Told new players it would suck because they don’t have access to traits right away, then they’ll believe it sucks. As was mentioned by someone earlier, mmo’s are about community. Help people understand and make some friends while you’re out there slaughtering foes. Sounds like a lot more fun than sitting around bitterly “steering people away” from the game. Get over yourself.
4/1/15 forum meltdown survivor
There is too much stuff thats needs to be fixed in order to make the game fun again and I personally dont see why Anet didnt already fix traits after the fiasco like what, 9 months ago?
So everybody that asks me if GW2 is worth playing/starting gets a big no for the time being.
Not recommending a game to someone just because you don’t personally find it fun because “this and that” needs fixing is just plain asinine.
The fact is GW2 is worth playing even if there are aspects of the game that need fixing. I’d recommend it in a heartbeat.
I, too, am embarrassed enough about bringing more new players to the game. The traits are, by far, the most abysmal part of the current play experience, though the NPE doesn’t help with its relatively insulting approach that still does not clarify enough about the game.
I’ve had to steer other people away as well, which is sad, because I bought the way in for two of my friends so they could try the game.
Embarrassed? Seriously? Is it really That bad? You’ve steered people away, yet here you are at the forums offering your two cents? It’s just a kittening game. If you’re a new player, playing without traits really shouldn’t make any difference at all. For vets making alts, yes, lack of traits is pretty annoying, but for a new player the NPE puts you through your paces and prepares you instead of being bludgeoned with all sorts of different abilities and strategically mashing the keyboard once you reach more difficult content. If you Told new players it would suck because they don’t have access to traits right away, then they’ll believe it sucks. As was mentioned by someone earlier, mmo’s are about community. Help people understand and make some friends while you’re out there slaughtering foes. Sounds like a lot more fun than sitting around bitterly “steering people away” from the game. Get over yourself.
Um, wow, thanks for over-reacting, Captain Tirade. You seemed to casually not-read the part where I paid the cost of entry for my friends. They did not enjoy the experience, sadly. So, yeah, get over yourself.
I, personally, still want to love GW2. I have a great guild, and one of my RL friends still plays daily, as I do. Because I care about the game, I overlook the deep flaws, but I will not subject other people to them, especially when I know they won’t enjoy it.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
They did mess up a little bit with some of the unlocks.
I came back to the game after 1+ year hiatus. I am here because I was wondering what the hell happened in Queensdale, one of the quest is so lame now.. you “tend” to the plants, no more buckets of water to pick up.
That’s fine if it’s just for new players. But one thing they messed up is the undewater combat. Several times with low level characters I got to a heart or event near water, and was unable to fight anything due to not having the equipment.
Then again, it is likely due to my previous experience that I was racing through the content from heart to heart. It is less likely to happen to a totally new player.
I was wondering the same thing too about the changes to some starting map’s quests I’ve encountered recently. In Queensdale, there is no more watering bucket to water the corn, no more picking up feed to feed the cow, everything is simplified to pressing f key. And at the asura starting map, the golem mini game is removed.
With regard to the NPE changes, The old 3 tier system is much better I feel, where you can allocate traits at early levels and have a sense of progression. Same goes to the leveling of weapon’s skills, gradually unlocking more skills as you use it in the past, that was working perfectly.
As a brand new player myself, this wasn’t my experience at all. The game is amazing, so many things to do, quite incredible. The pacing is just right I think.
Perhaps your expectations are getting in the way. I suggest letting them level on their own, they’ll love the game without your preconceptions weighing them.
By the way, if you really want to WvW, you can go gain access at level 1 from lion’s gate.
Glad to hear this from a new player. I think starting your journey into GW2 itself is a great experience even with the changes, even though I would still feel some of the changes are redundant. Hope new players will have the same experience as you.
2- Boosters are easily available from gemstore login rewards and black lion chests opened with keys from mapping/personal story, laurel boosters are cheap and you can always find yellow mobs in all maps including WvW. New players might not know but it’s incredibly efficient and available.
3 it was part of NPE
no the B menu is only unlocked for players who already have a lvl 22 that has been to wvw.
Boosters are NOT easily available to new players in any quantity. Not without spending some gems (and that is NOT an acceptable means of acquisition for a new or old player).
The Trait changes were made a month or more BEFORE the rest of NPE. Go look up the updates if you doubt, but you are wrong on this one. I am NOT saying they aren’t related, but they were NOT introduced at the same time.
On using WvW and PvP as a method to travel and access free bank / crafting / ect., keep in mind that those of using these methods are basically bypassing both the built in travel network (that is a needed gold sink in the game) and the need to use field access items (that are sold in the gem store). While I fully use the “workarounds” and share the info with any player that wants the info, I can also understand why Anet doesn’t advertise or teach those methods.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Um, wow, thanks for over-reacting, Captain Tirade. You seemed to casually not-read the part where I paid the cost of entry for my friends. They did not enjoy the experience, sadly. So, yeah, get over yourself.
I, personally, still want to love GW2. I have a great guild, and one of my RL friends still plays daily, as I do. Because I care about the game, I overlook the deep flaws, but I will not subject other people to them, especially when I know they won’t enjoy it.
You won’t subject other people to these “deep flaws” you force yourself to suffer because of your alleged borderline unconditional love for the game, yet you’ll go to the extent of actually paying their way in? So which is it? Are you paying peoples way in so you can steer them away afterword?
4/1/15 forum meltdown survivor
While I think personally that the NPE is as much an insult to gamer intelligence as it is a hindrance to fluid progression for new players, I actually havent heard many complaints from brand new players about the experience, and get asked more questions about skills and traits from newer players.
The majority of people that seem to be complaining are players that were here when it wasn’t so gated, and the npe doesnt target them.
GW2 is still an excellent game, and people that didn’t know how it was initially seem to be dealing with it fine.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
I’m a new player, so my perspective might be different from seasoned players.
I have played many MMOs before, buty still I thought the pace was right for new players. I got to lv 7 after just playing some while and I never felt restricted.
Now for people who know the game and want to jump in to a pvp match I guess it would be different.
I’ve never been that much into pvp myself.
I, too, am embarrassed enough about bringing more new players to the game. The traits are, by far, the most abysmal part of the current play experience, though the NPE doesn’t help with its relatively insulting approach that still does not clarify enough about the game.
I’ve had to steer other people away as well, which is sad, because I bought the way in for two of my friends so they could try the game.
Embarrassed? Seriously? Is it really That bad? You’ve steered people away, yet here you are at the forums offering your two cents? It’s just a kittening game. If you’re a new player, playing without traits really shouldn’t make any difference at all. For vets making alts, yes, lack of traits is pretty annoying, but for a new player the NPE puts you through your paces and prepares you instead of being bludgeoned with all sorts of different abilities and strategically mashing the keyboard once you reach more difficult content. If you Told new players it would suck because they don’t have access to traits right away, then they’ll believe it sucks. As was mentioned by someone earlier, mmo’s are about community. Help people understand and make some friends while you’re out there slaughtering foes. Sounds like a lot more fun than sitting around bitterly “steering people away” from the game. Get over yourself.
Um, wow, thanks for over-reacting, Captain Tirade. You seemed to casually not-read the part where I paid the cost of entry for my friends. They did not enjoy the experience, sadly. So, yeah, get over yourself.
I, personally, still want to love GW2. I have a great guild, and one of my RL friends still plays daily, as I do. Because I care about the game, I overlook the deep flaws, but I will not subject other people to them, especially when I know they won’t enjoy it.
I’ve not played for months now actually I started again yesterday which was the first time in a long long time.
I understand where you’re coming from Rauderi and I too had alot of hope for this game at launch had alot of disappointments but at the same time there’s alot I do like.
People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.
They mentioned several things coming several changes and I believe given time the NPE will be adjusted, I’d wait until the patches come out within the next few months to see just where this game is going to improve before passing judgement personally and this is coming from a person who’s been highly critical of many things in this title, I’m not one of the blind walking around that you and I have received nasty replies from here in the forums.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
Are you paying people’s way in so you can steer them away afterword?
The game’s doing that well enough on its own.
[/snark]
Sass aside, there’s a lot I love about GW2: freeflowing combat, beautiful scenery, and a wealth of conveniences unmatched in any other MMO. I pimp the kitten out of that to anyone who’d listen.
But that’s about it. Living Story season 2 isn’t satisfying enough to tout to experienced gamers and roleplayers.
The trait debacle is terrible. New Player Experience is.. eh. I’m not nearly as upset about that as some people seem to be, but pushing back character-defining traits makes the whole thing stale for many levels.
The atypical endgame is a turnoff for some, though I’m fine with it. But those who want a solid big-group/raid-dungeon experience would be disappointed. It’s one of the few times where I simply say “if that’s what you want, GW2 isn’t for you.”
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.
Too right. I’m hoping, wishing for HoT to be a huge, awesome success. I want to be able to go to my friends in a stupor and say “Duuuuude. Dudedudedude, you gotta come play Guild Wars 2 now.”
So, fingers crossed! (And don’t forget to apply for the beta~)
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.
Yes but many of those posts are still uninformed and completely inconsiderate of the sheer volume of research and information ArenaNet has that we do not. And many of those posters, while they think they have good intentions, can’t even see that all they are really doing is demanding things be their way, rather than the way that might be best for everybody, which is often not clear to the players, especially not here on the forums, where a lot of people come solely to express dissatisfaction.
The biggest problem people consistently have with this game is setting their own expectations too high, and that’s not ArenaNet’s fault. That’s just those players’ inability to accept less than what they’ve come to think they deserve, or to understand how inconsequential all of this is compared to reality. At the end of the day, it’s just a video game, it’s purpose is purely for entertainment, so why are there so many people pouring out their hearts in the name of “trying to make it better” instead of just enjoying what it is? There are a hundred million other things you can do on the Internet. If GW2 doesn’t scratch all your itches, you’re welcome to fill that void with other things, too.
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
(edited by Andred.1087)
Tis crap compared to the awesomeness that preNPE. /dropsmic
For all the things it was supposed to “fix” players still dont know about combo fields, and they sure dont know what I am talking about when I ask them in dungeons if they have x trait. Then they tell me they dont have access to that yet, then I remember. Then I send them 10g and tell them Im sorry before they are kicked..
At the end of the day, it’s just a video game, it’s purpose is purely for entertainment, so why are there so many people pouring out their hearts in the name of “trying to make it better” instead of just enjoying what it is? There are a hundred million other things you can do on the Internet. If GW2 doesn’t scratch all your itches, you’re welcome to fill that void with other things, too.
Ding ding ding!
why do people keep saying traits are unrelated to NPE its in the NPE page
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/
They arent related. For one thing the NPE simplified stuff while the trait changes made traits a lot more complicated to handle. But more then that the NPE as the name states aimed for new players. Something that effects the first 10 hours or so of a player who has just joined the game (excluding alts ofcourse) the Traits dont even apply in those first 10 hours and they’re surely not something you finish in the first 10 hours.
The NPE was aimed at making it easier for new players to grasp whats going on while the trait system changes is meant to make the game more rewarding but introducing a sort of horizontal progression system as well as make it easier to experiment with builds
“This new system for acquiring traits in the game brings back an aspect of the original Guild Wars that we really liked, which was exploring the world as a major component of character progression. Acquiring traits will be a horizontal progression system which will give us new ways to add new traits to the game and promote interesting content!”
“We want it to be much easier to experiment with and learn new builds as you explore the world of Tyria.”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/
Yes but many of those posts are still uninformed and completely inconsiderate of the sheer volume of research and information ArenaNet has that we do not. And many of those posters, while they think they have good intentions, can’t even see that all they are really doing is demanding things be their way, rather than the way that might be best for everybody, which is often not clear to the players.
The biggest problem people consistently have with this game is setting their own expectations too high, and that’s not ArenaNet’s fault. That’s just those players’ inability to accept less than what they’ve come to think they deserve, or to understand how inconsequential all of this is compared to reality. At the end of the day, it’s just a video game, it’s purpose is purely for entertainment, so why are there so many people pouring out their hearts in the name of “trying to make it better” instead of just enjoying what it is? There are a hundred million other things you can do on the Internet. If GW2 doesn’t scratch all your itches, you’re welcome to fill that void with other things, too.
+1 Very, Very well said.
4/1/15 forum meltdown survivor
I’ve not played for months now actually I started again yesterday which was the first time in a long long time.
I understand where you’re coming from Rauderi and I too had alot of hope for this game at launch had alot of disappointments but at the same time there’s alot I do like.
People don’t understand sometimes that even though posts might seem negative when we come here to voice our concerns for the direction the game is taking in certain areas that it’s not because we hate the game or hate the people making it, it’s actually quite the opposite really we care enough about the game to put together our threads to let the developers know this is what they need to work on the game to make it so that those decisions that didn’t quite make the cut will be remedied in the future.
They mentioned several things coming several changes and I believe given time the NPE will be adjusted, I’d wait until the patches come out within the next few months to see just where this game is going to improve before passing judgement personally and this is coming from a person who’s been highly critical of many things in this title, I’m not one of the blind walking around that you and I have received nasty replies from here in the forums.
Your sentiment is in the right place but I am afraid to say you may be missing the bigger picture.
Yes you’re absolutely right in that if players dont like a particular aspect from any game they should explain what they feel is wrong and how it could be made better.
That being said there is also an important aspect to consider. Whats good for the game. Thing is sometimes you accept things you may not like but which are for the greater good.
Anet arent stupid, developing the NPE isnt something that was free for them. They had to put resources into it and that costs money. They wouldnt have done that if they didnt have clear metrics that stated the old way of doing things was costing them players. I dont think you’ll find many veterans that are going to say the new way of dumbing things down for the first few hours of the game is better. Of course we all preferred picking the food of the sacks and going to feed the cows rather then having to dance for the cows. But hey if it helps get more players then is it really a problem?
Lets be objective here, how much time do veterans spent level 1-20 ? it literally takes less then 10 hrs to get to level 20 and thats if you dont use a level 20 scroll which most veterans have tons of anyway. If a player loves the game, is it really that far fetched for them to say, “okey these changes arent something I like but their impact is minimal and most likely its helping the game be more successful so I will let it slide.”
So personally no I dont think this is people not understanding that sometimes expressing negativity, especially to this level is because people love the game. I personally thing its people not understanding that an MMO isnt meant to be designed 100% the way any one person likes, it has to be designed to cater for the needs of many different types of players and that means sometimes a design decision will be counter to what that one person likes and thats okey especially when we’re talking about 10hrs out of 1000s.
A lot of the things you listed OP are NOT gated by level, yet simply introduced at that level. For example at level 22 Jumping puzzles are introduced. Now if you’re level 18 and find a jumping puzzle there will be no invisible wall stopping your progression to do so.
Colin himself said this I believe in a post a long time ago when NPE was released, if I recall correctly.
NPE is to introduce them into the game, not to speed through it, granted there should be a opt out option for alternate characters I think it is a fine addition to the game that needs some minor tweaks. So please help us all out and not complain about it but give real feedback about it in the proper thread. For example how you think it is silly to have story start at level 10 or something similar.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/NPE-Feedback-Merged-Please-read-1st-post/first
Guild Leader of Lunar Tree[LT].
Officer of Power Overwhelming[ZERK].
First term Forum PvE Specialist.
Officer of Power Overwhelming[ZERK].
First term Forum PvE Specialist.
Anet arent stupid, developing the NPE isnt something that was free for them.
They can still make mistakes. They overhauled traits last year April and not even a year later they already came out and said they are going to do redo it again.
Yeah but I’m gonna give them the benefit of the doubt until it turns up then make my decision on whether it’s better or not. So at the moment “they’re fixing it”.
As long as your clear that it’s your personal optimism and you have no actual reason to believe they are fixing it.
Until I see evidence anything is actually getting fixed, it’s borked and remains borked. These are the same people who thought the initial change was a good idea, and that turned out to be a big mistake.