Guild Wars 2

My main’s a warrior, and some might not seem to realise, but Warrior skills are almost all multi target with GS..just sayin, so this nerf effects us as well. But what perked my ears was how they stated it in the Twitch session, “you people (Community) have been asking for this” euhm..no offense ANet, I haven’t seen anyone complain about AoE strength, Yes a trebuchet shot in your face SHOULD destroy you, you;re not a mountain kitten Yes a giant rock from a Catapult SHOULD do massive damage if you eat it in your face.

Class AoE’s apart from maybe the MASSIVE CAST TIME Ele AoE’s are nothing THAT strong that require’s a nerf..not in PvE, not in WvW not in PvP….seriously, where do you people get your data and information from?

On a sidenote: You guys REALLY REALLY need a PR department, or someone to organize these twitch things, you where all over the place, no structure and just babbling half the time about..well nothing we didnt know.

Obly.9243:

My main’s a warrior, and some might not seem to realise, but Warrior skills are almost all multi target with GS..just sayin, so this nerf effects us as well

We don’t know that, though. We don’t know what ArenaNet meant with AoE. Anything that can strike more than a single enemy? Anything that casts those white circles on the ground?

Obly.9243:

just babbling half the time about..well nothing we didnt know.

The AoE nerf was new :-P

This worries me a lot.

Orr changes should be last on the list. After they have made other parts of the existing world more lucrative and exicting.

First see if that works and then change Orr. Already mobs are horrible and the farming has been all but nerfed. This is bad.

Second if you nerf AoE is WvW you will remove a ton of players from that community. AoE is such an important aspect in WvW its not even funny. Its the only way 5 people can hold off a zerg. I am a warrior and thieves and eles bother me yes. But since when cant a specific class counter or be better vs another?

Overall im excited to see the other things mentioned. But these two here are dangerous territory. Tred wise Anet, tred wise.

Simple answer from someone whos playing different classes: aoe is fine

Would really Love to see where in this forum people complain about aoe.

Dont nerf stuff because of spvp if thats the case.

My biggest fear is that with such a huge change, half of the classes are bugged or overnerfed after the patch.

Give us data, testservers or just leave this change for good

I don’t mind if they nerf aoe a bit… however remove the stupid 5 target limit.

The concept of AOE = area of effect = all who stands inside a specific area…

This is a classic problem which many games before gw2 have faced and the solution have never been to add a max target limitation. The damage should just be considerable lower then single target.

I like the concept of melee-trains vs. bomb-groups… each can counter the other and usually comes down to who plays the best… if the dmg output is scales correctly.

They want to reduce the ability to make money via farming it is a simple as that. They could care less about the rest. The AOE feedback/metrics are not true and just a fake reason to change it. The goal is to get you to buy gems.

How about you hire people who can balance and who know who to run a game/live service before NCSOFT/NEXON turns this into city of heroes.

Draemos.8045:

It’s not enough problem that they should be focusing on it , they are playing with fire as some of their class designs are almost entirely AoE centric and have really poor single target options; and they are liable to make a lot of folks extremely upset.

I know a more important aspect to much of the community is actually overbearing single target burst damage, (aka thiefs). I don’t quite get how Anet has keyed in on AoE as being a bigger problem when almost nobody actually complains about it.

It just doesn’t seem like a smart change to me. I don’t see very many people coming away from that update without having a really bad taste in their mouth.

It’s more than that. The entire game was designed around aoe. From mob density to dynamic event spawns to how the zones in wvwvw are structured. They were all built with the idea in mind that people would be using aoe.

Obly.9243:

My main’s a warrior, and some might not seem to realise, but Warrior skills are almost all multi target with GS..just sayin, so this nerf effects us as well.

NO just no

breath is not AoE its cone.

It won t affect those skills.

Just find me a post on gw2lfg “looking for aoe class/spec”

There isn t any.

The necessity in dungeons of guardians/warriors is already an issue, yet they nerf other classes…smart.

Gehenna.3625:

Mobs in GW2 are more hp heavy than in GW1. This means it takes longer to kill individual mobs. This gets annoying, so people will tend to want to get the whole group and aoe the crap out of them.

If people use aoe all the time even when not needed, it is a sign also of how uninteresting the skill set is. Nerfing aoe is one way of dealing it. Another is making other skills more useful…..but oh noes PvP will be affected.

PvP balance is a big problem for PvE.

Agree wholeheartedly. Rather than nerfing aoe they should really be reconsidering how single target skill function and damage. They should also take a close look at mob clusters and respawn rates.

smezmer.1206:

Gehenna.3625:

Mobs in GW2 are more hp heavy than in GW1. This means it takes longer to kill individual mobs. This gets annoying, so people will tend to want to get the whole group and aoe the crap out of them.

If people use aoe all the time even when not needed, it is a sign also of how uninteresting the skill set is. Nerfing aoe is one way of dealing it. Another is making other skills more useful…..but oh noes PvP will be affected.

PvP balance is a big problem for PvE.

Agree wholeheartedly. Rather than nerfing aoe they should really be reconsidering how single target skill function and damage. They should also take a close look at mob clusters and respawn rates.

I want to see fewer, much smarter mobs.

I want to see dungeon pulls like many pulls seen in CoE (both story and explorable) more often. I want to be compelled to use my utility slots.

I want ANet to let go of this anal compulsion to wince when I use AOE spells on a single target because neither the player nor the mob care that it’s aoe.

Right now, I seek out this challenge by finding champion mark 3 golems to face (the ones that hit like trucks and can’t really be dodged well)

I think being zerged down by 300 mobs in one second is “dumb” gameplay, and have seen examples in this game where ANet has done better. I want to see more of those examples.

They said they would take their time in evaluating this, I really hope they do and come to the conclusion that their initial findings on AoE being to strong is wrong. For PvE it doesn’t really matter since you can easily group enemies together (guardians even have a specific skill for it) and most melee attacks (except daggers) can hit more than one enemy if they’re right in front of you. For PvP (both sPvP and WvW) being able to burst is better than just doing a smaller amount of damage to a group, even if the total damage done is higher – there are just so many ways to heal that a single target skill with higher damage will outperform AoE with lower individual but higher cumulative damage in all but a few, very rare situations.

Even if it’s only attacks with a red circle that are affected, it would mean a huge imbalance between professions. Eles, for example, can’t switch weapon in combat and while it’s normally fine due to the attunement system, a nerf to AoEs would however mean they will be even more forced to stick with d/d since bot staff and scepter rely extremely heavily on AoEs – something that is completely contradictory to their statement of wanting to make more builds viable for every class.

Nerfing things to bring them in line isn’t the way to go (unless it’s clearly OP), bringing the other options up to par is the better way to do it.

Draemos.8045:

It’s not enough problem that they should be focusing on it , they are playing with fire as some of their class designs are almost entirely AoE centric and have really poor single target options; and they are liable to make a lot of folks extremely upset.

I know a more important aspect to much of the community is actually overbearing single target burst damage, (aka thiefs). I don’t quite get how Anet has keyed in on AoE as being a bigger problem when almost nobody actually complains about it.

It just doesn’t seem like a smart change to me. I don’t see very many people coming away from that update without having a really bad taste in their mouth.

This is absolute truth.

The entire meta is based around AOE, in addition to professions, weapons are classified by single-target vs aoe (so entire weapon sets will simply become new costume brawl props).

The “bad taste in their mouth” issue is dead-on here.

Nobody likes to be made less powerful without good reason – and with the lost shores patch: once bitten, twice shy.

plasmacutter.2709:

Draemos.8045:

It’s not enough problem that they should be focusing on it , they are playing with fire as some of their class designs are almost entirely AoE centric and have really poor single target options; and they are liable to make a lot of folks extremely upset.

I know a more important aspect to much of the community is actually overbearing single target burst damage, (aka thiefs). I don’t quite get how Anet has keyed in on AoE as being a bigger problem when almost nobody actually complains about it.

It just doesn’t seem like a smart change to me. I don’t see very many people coming away from that update without having a really bad taste in their mouth.

This is absolute truth.

The entire meta is based around AOE, weapons are classified by single-target vs aoe (so entire weapon sets will simply become new costume brawl props).

The “bad taste in their mouth” issue is dead-on here.

Nobody likes to be made less powerful without good reason.

And then there is the fact that if some one complains about aoe, it’s because of the stupid 3-5 player hit limit, especially in wvwvw.

Anet’s looking at this completely backwards.

Why we do not discuss this?

We all knows warrior and guardians best any other profession in dungeons both as DD as well as tanks

How on earth they can say aoe are an issue in dungeons?

Its clear the opposite from gw2lfg and mapchat……

Can we have PvE left alone considering AoE professions are the weakest at this moment?

I don t care of WWW and PvP they are bad anyway….and they are getting worse every day….

But for PvE they are pushing OP classes and nerfing UP classes since forever….

i 100% agree with you on this.

I agree, since no matter how strong my ele is in pvp, for what I really care about (pve/dungeons), she is subpar. A nerf of AoE will destroy her already pitiful dps.

Although warrior greatsword is AoE too. Too bad that’s my only other character (and I rolled it specifically for dungeons). Seems thief and mes will be the reigning champions of PvE soon.

In PvP and WvW they can do what they want, PvE leave it alone.

NO

AoE is a different thing from Cone…..
Expecially melee skills.

Any sword attack, hits a cone and isn t considered AoE.

Hi everyone,

Due to the amount of AoE related threads that are popping in the forums we are going to try and have them a bit organized. Here we will be forwarding and merging threads related to the discussion of AoE mechanics and data in every aspect of the game (PvE/PvP/W3…).

Please keep it constructive and friendly. Refrain from any kind of trolling, rudeness or offensive behavior so we can forward it to the team. For the sake of discussion, we are going to edit the thread title to clarify this is the place for discussion.

Thanks for your understanding.

LordByron.8369:

NO

AoE is a different thing from Cone…..
Expecially melee skills.

Any sword attack, hits a cone and isn t considered AoE.

AoE = area of effet. Cone = area. Geometrical logic?

Some melee skills are Aoe (Mesmer sword #1 first and second strikes) some aren’t (third strike)

The moving/dodging/stamina mechanic is really central to the combat in this game. The AoEs, though numerically powerful, are very easily dodged.

Yeah, you can hit 5 targets for 8 damage over time if they stand in the same spot, or you can hit 1 target for 10 no matter where they go. Is it just me or is saying the AoEs are OP is silly considering?

to me AoE is a skill that can hit multiple targets in the same time
melee/ranged/round/cone/sqaure/pyramid or wathever doesn’t matter
1 target hits have to do more damage than 5 targets hits.
and the nerf should affect every form of aoe.

Animando.7956:

AoE = area of effet. Cone = area. Geometrical logic?

Technically a cone is a volume….just sayin’. :P

I dropped ele because it felt weak. I came back because of AoE, ele felt strong again. I guess i’ll need to play ele a lot now so i can drop it after patch without missing it. Maybe i can get bored with it fast enough not to regret dropping it. ;]

AoE is not a problem. Lack of effective counters is.
Bombs, nukes, gas (in real life) do exist, but interception, shelter, breather ecc do exist as well.

I am very surprised A.Net wants to take the shortcut by just nerfing AoE as whole, this is only going to cause uproars and general unsatisfaction.

I’m confused, why are they nerfing aoe when i’ve not heard/seen one complaint about it. However everything that is a problem didn’t even get touched upon. If this goes through I think it’s time to go for me because its obvious no one is listening to what the players want.

If this goes through as believe it will it will castrate both my ele and nerco.

Of all my friends and guildies, I literlly don’t know anyone wo agrees with a nerf of AOE. It’s weak as it is, i have a necro and an elementalist, some aoe on my ele is pretty strong but it shouldnt be nerfed. A nerf on my poor UP necro would almost seem like dev trolling.

The reason why AoE shouldn’t be nerfed in damage is because it already has other things that balances it.

Taking the staff elementalist as an example, there’s almost no AoE attack that can be cast as fast as single target effects, and many have a seizable delay before they hit as well. Nerfing their damage would make them unplayble unless the other aspects were removed. Which in turn would make them hit more often, thus increasing their damage again.

And besides, the staff elementalist’s damage is already about half that of the dagger elementalist…if anything, it’s a good example of what things could be like after a nerf like this…applying the nerf to it would basically mean nerfing it twice.

Dyroth.5063:

I agree that scaling an AoE damage vs the number affected is probably the best way to go about this. In return AoEs should be allowed to hit slightly more targets.

Absolutely not,themore targets u hit the weaker it would become, froma pvp point each person could overcome the done damage much easier, people would try to land their aoe on as few targets as possible to get some pressure on the opposing team, where is the logic in that

I love the way they explained why they are changing it:
‘If your skil does 10 damage to a single target, if you have another skill that have the same opportunity cost but deals 8 damage to 5 targets, the AoE skill is better – we don’t want you to use AoE skills on single target mobs. ’
Pro tip-thats EXACTLY how aoe’s are supposed to work!
If you are fighting 1 mob what skill would you use?-well the single target one ofc since
10dmg > 8dmg,right?now say you are fighting 2 mobs which skill would you use now?
well the aoe skill since 10dmg < 2×8dmg.
However you will till be doing less damage to an individual mob than you do when you use your single target skill.
Its almost like they haven’t been developing mmo’s for the past 8 years

I don’t get it. They are going to destroy staff ele and gut AOE skills for what? I have not seen any complaints.

This will wreck PvE as well, not farming, but scaled events that spawn hordes of enemies, storyline modes that do the same, places where having an AOE is a tremendous asset to a group. Even my strongly “single target” classes have access to AOE skills/weapons for these situations, and now what? Nerf em all?

Limiting hits to 5 is pretty stupid already IMO. Mini Me spamming Vet Karka, Dredge Drilling machines etc etc.

I can see many event and storyline scenarios in game that seem to have been designed with AOE in mind, and now they want to limit it, nerf it, and in all probability not touch these scenarios.

Simple fix in PVE is situational awareness of backline casters and “don’t run through a choke point like a stupid Zerg clusterfudge”.

Finishing off downed/incapped players by AOE is as old as AOE, it is a legitimate tactic.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Limiting hits to 5 is pretty stupid IMO.

AoE already is limited to 5 targets you know.
Pretty sure it always has been.

Animando.7956:

LordByron.8369:

NO

AoE is a different thing from Cone…..
Expecially melee skills.

Any sword attack, hits a cone and isn t considered AoE.

AoE = area of effet. Cone = area. Geometrical logic?

Some melee skills are Aoe (Mesmer sword #1 first and second strikes) some aren’t (third strike)

yeah nice,…..

the point is if you use a term with a specific meaning that was created to describe certain things in games, you just use the meaning the word was created for,

We all know cones are considered AoE, maybe breath effects.

Dunno if it was created for D&d but it was used at that time and while a fireball was an aoe, a dragon breath wasn t

Even in gw2 its clear wich spells are aoe.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aoe
as I said.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Limiting hits to 5 is pretty stupid IMO.

AoE already is limited to 5 targets you know.
Pretty sure it always has been.

Yeah, should have qualified that somehow, point being that is quite enough of a “control” on supposed “area” effects.

Lol “show us some statistics…”

You do know 90% of statistics are lies.

Anyway, it’d be awesome if the balance team could explain the reasoning behind nerfing aoe instead of us arguing over each other.

Writetyper.1985:

Meglobob.8620:

Nerfing AoE, really, how many players want that? Like 0, zero, nought, no one…

I want it. Provided they’re talking about melee cleave AoE. What is there right now to punish warriors and guardians from walking into a crowd of mobs and autoattacking with greatsword? Nothing. Absoloutely zilch. And there’s no way other classes without melee cleave can get aoe melee damage.

Honestly you don’t even know how they’re nerfing AoE yet, you’re the one living in your own little bubble if you read two words and overreact like this without anet even detailing what “aoe” they’re talking about. You don’t even know a single thing yet.

My thoughts exactly and what I’ve been trying to get across to people but most people are having knee-jerk reactions before having concrete proof of what they’re planning.

DiogoSilva.7089:

The only reason why (HB) Warrior is so strong, is because of the AI. Hundred Blades and other oftheir burst skills was meant to be easily dodged/ blocked, something that pve enemies can’t do. A Warrior is not even a top tier profession in pvp.

The Warrior not being “top tier” in PvP probably has a lot to do with this decision. ANet has a real affection for Warriors and in PvE, they are ridiculously powerful already. I can see how this change will boost their viability in PvP where they are lacking, to make them stupid strong there too. Meanwhile, every other profession that relies on AoE abilities in PvP and PvE can go hang. Warrior worship at its finest.

Frankly, I don’t give a kitten about PvP balance because I don’t play the PvP game. But one thing I do know for a fact is that AoE abilities are NOT overpowered on their own. I know because I use them. In many cases (cough Elementalist cough) they are quite weak. The fact that they can be heavily stacked in PvP is a problem with the mechanics of PvP, not with the skills themselves.

The only problem I have with AoE skills is that they allow for such easy tagging of mobs, making farming with an AoE specialist much more efficient than with a single-target focused build. But that’s also not a damage issue , but a weakness in the mechanics of mob tagging. Single-target builds have to work a lot harder for the same benefit, and that is irritating.

This nerf is a case of using a sledgehammer to fix a wristwatch. In fact, it doesn’t even fix the problem with AoE stacking in PvP because 10% does little when those abilities are being focused. One user mentioned 20 AoEs incoming as being a problem. A 10% reduction to damage, roughly equates to the removal of 2 of those 20. So 18 AoE stacks is going to be that much more survivable?

AoEs aren’t strong on their own. Weakening them further fixes no one’s problems, but it does create new ones. And for others, it just exacerbates existing problems by further weakening abilities that are already pathetic.

We want to bring up all the weak weapons/traits on par with strong weapons/builds/traits in addition to reduce AoE effectiveness.

If they would do this in the same update as the AoE nerf, I have no issues. Problem is, they won’t. They’ll nerf AoE (acknowledging that it will gimp certain classes way more than others, I’m thinking of my D/D ele, but my god, if I was staff ele I’d be in the corner crying), then they’ll compensate for the nerf when they get around to it. Meanwhile, half of the players out there have to take the hit and shelf their preferred class, or just put up with the nerf in playstyle/competitiveness/enjoyment. I’m not trying to be cynical, and I would love to be proved wrong.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Writetyper.1985:

Meglobob.8620:

Nerfing AoE, really, how many players want that? Like 0, zero, nought, no one…

I want it. Provided they’re talking about melee cleave AoE. What is there right now to punish warriors and guardians from walking into a crowd of mobs and autoattacking with greatsword? Nothing. Absoloutely zilch. And there’s no way other classes without melee cleave can get aoe melee damage.

Honestly you don’t even know how they’re nerfing AoE yet, you’re the one living in your own little bubble if you read two words and overreact like this without anet even detailing what “aoe” they’re talking about. You don’t even know a single thing yet.

My thoughts exactly and what I’ve been trying to get across to people but most people are having knee-jerk reactions before having concrete proof of what they’re planning.

There is no room for patience, nuance or deep thought on these forums. At all. And it only takes one “omagad we’re all going to DIIEEE” doomsayer to let the excrement (I refuse to use a kitten here) hit the fan.
Like it does now.

Windwalker.2047:

I love the way they explained why they are changing it:
‘If your skil does 10 damage to a single target, if you have another skill that have the same opportunity cost but deals 8 damage to 5 targets, the AoE skill is better – we don’t want you to use AoE skills on single target mobs. ’
Pro tip-thats EXACTLY how aoe’s are supposed to work!
If you are fighting 1 mob what skill would you use?-well the single target one ofc since
10dmg > 8dmg,right?now say you are fighting 2 mobs which skill would you use now?
well the aoe skill since 10dmg < 2×8dmg.
However you will till be doing less damage to an individual mob than you do when you use your single target skill.
Its almost like they haven’t been developing mmo’s for the past 8 years

also, they are ignoring that you only get 5 skills per weapon, and since different weapons have different cool downs, you were probably using both the 8 and the 10, reducing the damage of the 8, just gives you less damage versus single targets, and less damage versus groups.

increase the effectiveness and use of non aoe skills, and most importantly increase mob AI.

As far as WvWvW, why did you make choke points if you didnt want people to be able to, you know, have a choke point.

I got a say I’m not really happy with the announcement of the nerf to AoE abilities.

I’m no pro, I’m still learning the game and fighting my way up. I played every class, but overall 80% of my play time have been on Necromancer and Engineer.

Playing my engineer right now, if this nerf ever occur, I fear even more for y place in competitive scene.

Engineer are already the least represented class in Paid, we might be more popular since Powerr made public the 100 nades build, but still we don’t see us often.

Most people Agree that engineer are among the weakest in the sPvP meta.

Sadly, our AoE damage represent abvout 80% of the damage we can output. Most of our abilities are AoE!

Grenade, Bomb, Flamethrower, Pistol, Rifle abilities, Mines and I don’t know if they will consider Static discharge as an AoE.

We are left with Toolkit auto attack and prybar, Rifle auto attack(piercing?AoE?), turret (ahaha), Pistol poison dart if untraited, Elixir Gun? (aha).

We HAVE to rely on our AoE damage, it’s not like we have the choice! I would love to have a sniper kit, but we don’t.

Anet say people use AoE damage over single target dps even when they are fighting a single person. Yeah right, what do you want me to do then? Use my Elixir Gun? How Am I supose to focus on single target damage?

I know I shouldn’t debate about it too much before even knowing what’s it’s gonna be, but I assume the worse.

Last time they “balanced” our grenade over having sigil, they reduced the damage by 30%. I don’t want it to happen again.

Have a good day!

Blacklight.2871:

DiogoSilva.7089:

The only reason why (HB) Warrior is so strong, is because of the AI. Hundred Blades and other oftheir burst skills was meant to be easily dodged/ blocked, something that pve enemies can’t do. A Warrior is not even a top tier profession in pvp.

The Warrior not being “top tier” in PvP probably has a lot to do with this decision. ANet has a real affection for Warriors and in PvE, they are ridiculously powerful already. I can see how this change will boost their viability in PvP where they are lacking, to make them stupid strong there too. Meanwhile, every other profession that relies on AoE abilities in PvP and PvE can go hang. Warrior worship at its finest.

Frankly, I don’t give a kitten about PvP balance because I don’t play the PvP game. But one thing I do know for a fact is that AoE abilities are NOT overpowered on their own. I know because I use them. In many cases (cough Elementalist cough) they are quite weak. The fact that they can be heavily stacked in PvP is a problem with the mechanics of PvP, not with the skills themselves.

The only problem I have with AoE skills is that they allow for such easy tagging of mobs, making farming with an AoE specialist much more efficient than with a single-target focused build. But that’s also not a damage issue , but a weakness in the mechanics of mob tagging. Single-target builds have to work a lot harder for the same benefit, and that is irritating.

This nerf is a case of using a sledgehammer to fix a wristwatch. In fact, it doesn’t even fix the problem with AoE stacking in PvP because 10% does little when those abilities are being focused. One user mentioned 20 AoEs incoming as being a problem. A 10% reduction to damage, roughly equates to the removal of 2 of those 20. So 18 AoE stacks is going to be that much more survivable?

AoEs aren’t strong on their own. Weakening them further fixes no one’s problems, but it does create new ones. And for others, it just exacerbates existing problems by further weakening abilities that are already pathetic.

You’re aware that about 80% of warriors weapon abilities are aoe right?

I don’t think AOE is necessarily the problem, rather everyone and their mother just sits at range and aoes. If melee was a bit more viable, especially in the massive fights, aoe wouldnt be as much of a problem.

I think they mentioned this, and I completely agree: AoE should have diminishing returns depending on the number of targets its hitting. Many games do this. And it will impact PVE a lot less. If you have an aoe spell hitting 10 or more targets, the damage reduces by X.

In dungeons, most of the time you are fighting no more than 4 or 5..Very rarely are you fighting a pack of 10+ mobs, CoF devourer event aside, and a lot of times these packs of mobs die from a wet fart anyways.

AoE is not a problem if anything it is weak compared to single target damage and could actually do with a slight buff to make it more viable and more used considering the game is heavily influenced on utilizing AoE for maximum effect and for tackling the giant zergs that this game produces (both PvE and WvWvW). I like many others have not seen a single thread complaining about AoE being over powered. This is a stealth nerf to stop mob tagging.

Any GW1 vets having de ja vu? I certainly am!! Two words, Smiter’s Boon! Yeah never forget that skilled balancing…..

Dev: “AoE must be OP”

alcopaul.2156:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-919RMwyfnk

Dev: “AoE must be OP”

For those that don’t know, here are some informations :

The 5 man team in this video, is from the [MAN] guild, which is right now prolly the top Paid tPvp guild in US. They aren’t a random bunch, they are the bests skilled players you can find around.

They are fighting a low tier zerg, and I’m part of low tier and I know our zerg can be pretty bad.

This is simply a case of skills vs numbers, and I’m happy that skills win.

If at least 5 players from the zerg would have charged, the group would have been wiper. But they didn’t, they were affraid of dying and charging alone.

Nerf the AoE, and the same thing will still happen. It’s not about damage, it’s about tactics and teamwork. Using positionning and taking advantage of zerg mindless.

If they ever nerf AoE damagew, AoE centric class (Necro, Engineer, Elemental(tho they are really strong already)) will get hit really hard. 80% of our skills are AoE, we can’t just say “Hey I will switch to single target dps for this mob”, because we don’t have this option. I can’t just auto attack and use my elexir gun.

I’m not looking forward to this change.

yeah, and if A.NET nerf AoE on a basis of a zerg wipe by skilled people, they’re doing it wrong i think.

How many of you poor, saint souls have never, ever abused AoE to do dynamic events? Are you going to all tell me “oh, this idea never once crossed my mind”? No. We all abuse AoE for events. There’s no other optimal way to play them, because AoE is crazy strong. One of the ambitions behind this game is that you should play the build you want; but at the moment, for events, you either go AoE, or are at disadvantage.

How many of you have seen mobs dodging your AoEs? Probably not many, neither, especially with some good control skills. Sure, it is the fault of the enemy’s AI too, but if all enemies in pve could and would dodge, it would create the opposite effect: be extremely annoying for aoe players.

How many of you haven’t abused AoEs to clean entire capture points in pvp (and farm glory in the process)? Remember, at the smaller points, dodging and evading aoe damage is not an easy option, because it gives away the control of the point, and this might decide the outcome of the entire match. Or how many times haven’t you just spammed aoe on downed allies and anyone trying to rez them, because it’s simply easier and more effective than using the more risky finish mechanic itself? That’s cheap.

And WvW? WvW zergs are an AoE spamfest. This is a fact. None of you can argue against that. The format itself motivates that.

Matter of fact is, AoE is almost always better than single-target damage in this game. When you fight two mobs, are you going to quickly burst one so you can have some room to breath while fighting the remaining one? No, you’re going to AoE spam them, because it’s easier. Maybe if both options were equally viable strategically, but they are not.

It’s true that the devs must be very careful with how they nerf AoE, and IMO, they should find unique mechanisms that trigger at specific situations, and not simply make a straight damage nerf all across the board.

However, if any of you want “statistical proof”, just enter WvW and walk and pick a few flowers, just enter spvp and check what is happening around the points, just go take a walk in normal pve and check what is happening in dynamic events.

No one is whining? How many people have complained that some portions of GW2 are zergfests spamming aoes to each other? How many rangers, necromancers and the like have complained that aoe compeltely destroys their minions? How many melee players have complained that it’s almost impossible to melee in a slightly crowded zone because they would be AoE’d to death?

AoE isn’t a problem. The class “balance” team is just going to use this as an excuse to nerf the weakest classes and buff the strongest classes.

I have no idea how they still have jobs.