Guild Wars 2

Calae.1738:

I’m not generalizing. Its a fact. MMO’s are not appealing to younger audiences. They might buy the game; play it till level 10 or 20 then quit.

It probably has something to do with how the younger generations seek something for nothing and are too impatient to work towards something. The entitled generation. The ones that grew up with credit cards, smart phones and google.

I have 3 children with ages ranging from 2-14. They all love Guild Wars 2.

My son has an 80; he plays a lot, and isn’t that bad.
My older daughter doesn’t have an 80, but she enjoys fractals and dungeons—she does very, very well there.

The 2-year old, well, she likes running around, jumping, and helping mommy and daddy get the bad guys. She doesn’t have her own account, though… but soon.

The fact that all they did for all of spring break was play Guild Wars 2 tells me there is some degree of appeal.

So your “fact” that MMOs don’t appeal to younger audiences is completely wrong, and I have proof. Unless you were just generalizing and want to assert that my family represents statistical outliers.

Whoa, a whole family playing the same MMO, did I get it right? Cool.

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

Well, we’ve got terror, violence, politics, and scientific material in GW2 already, I’d say SAB is a nice counterweight to the rest of the game:)

PS: Those things don’t make material ‘adult’, nor does being from Disney alone make the material ‘kiddie’.

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

I’m not trying to insult people who like Disney stuff. The psychological techniques used by Disney are well known to be effective. They’re very good at what they do.

Most of what you listed for mature content is just stuff teenagers want and adults don’t care about. The hole grows ever deeper.

Game is just fine, and will be for many years.

Aeonblade.8709:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

I’m not trying to insult people who like Disney stuff. The psychological techniques used by Disney are well known to be effective. They’re very good at what they do.

Most of what you listed for mature content is just stuff teenagers want and adults don’t care about. The hole grows ever deeper.

Game is just fine, and will be for many years.

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

darkace.8925:

Calae.1738:

I’m not sure how long they will be able to sustain this though. Their Achilles heel is a AAA MMO targeted to a mature audience. The Disney stuff might be tolerable for awhile but; it’ll get dumped really fast. Your average MMO gamers is over 30 and is demanding mature content.

I’d be willing to bet the majority of players who play MMOs hardly pay any attention at all to the actual form of the content. As long as the content is fun and the rewards worthwhile, I’ll bet most players really don’t pay attention to how cute, silly, or grim the world around them might be. It’s a bet I might lose, but it’s a bet I’d make.

I would be willing to agree. I never liked the cartoonish look of many MMO’s but nudity, graphic violence? Nah. Give me good, interesting gameplay and I’ll be happy.

Calae.1738:

Aeonblade.8709:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

I’m not trying to insult people who like Disney stuff. The psychological techniques used by Disney are well known to be effective. They’re very good at what they do.

Most of what you listed for mature content is just stuff teenagers want and adults don’t care about. The hole grows ever deeper.

Game is just fine, and will be for many years.

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

Uh yea. That was my point.

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material. …

I am over 30 and don’t believe a family oriented game like GW2 would benefit from the addition of the items you mention. There are other games for people who desire that kind of content.

Calae.1738:

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

Anyone can like or dislike anything; maturity isn’t tied to age like armor level requirements.

Regardless, no one wants economics. I’ll give you politics since intrigue and cold wars between factions are ripe for serious MMO story content, but no one wants to hear about the way the Krytan Federal Reserve has been lowering rates lately or the plummeting real estate values in Beetletun. -_-

Alloy.2839:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material. …

I am over 30 and don’t believe a family oriented game like GW2 would benefit from the addition of the items you mention. There are other games for people who desire that kind of content.

I’m not quite 30 yet, but this is what I was getting at. If I just another mindless violent pseudo science slogfest with stupid big kitten bouncing around, I’ll go to Wal-Mart and pick up anything made by EA in the last 3 years.

Hawkian.6580:

Calae.1738:

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

Anyone can like or dislike anything; maturity isn’t tied to age like armor level requirements.

Regardless, no one wants economics. I’ll give you politics since intrigue and cold wars between factions are ripe for serious MMO story content, but no one wants to hear about the way the Krytan Federal Reserve has been lowering rates lately or the plummeting real estate values in Beetletun. -_-

Yea but that could cause a rebellion and potentially a civil war if diplomatic measures fail.

Then again; we can always look in another castle if the princess is there.

Alloy.2839:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material. …

I am over 30 and don’t believe a family oriented game like GW2 would benefit from the addition of the items you mention. There are other games for people who desire that kind of content.

Erm… Bandits, separatists, orphanage fires, hospital fires, asura gates, steam engines.

The only thing that isn’t covered by the post you replied to is nudity and coarse language.

Of course the game is doing well, Guild Wars 2 is the most seriously taken niche AAA mmorpg for the super casual, ever. This game is beautiful, has a simple UI and even more simple combat system.

As for why they are hiring, well, from what little I know about the company, I read somewhere that it is very small. What I do know is that ArenaNet is behind schedule on things they said would be in game shortly after release. Almost none of that is even being talked about all the while tiny bits of content is being released. In order to make ends meet in the game with new content and old they most likely need to expand the pay-roll.

My honest opinion is that casual is popular now, but slowly dying out. It is most definitely a way to make money quickly, but not a way to make a game last. Game developers will eventually exhaust the consumers with must have AAA games of the month. As amazing as this game is, it also takes a huge step backwards, and the more casuals that it caters to, the more advanced players it will eventually disappoint.

This game is very young, if it wasn’t doing well, we are all in trouble.

kRiza krimos.1637:

It is also highly untrue that average mmo player is above 30+, if it were true how would you explain masses that use terms like kiddo, noobs, pro, leet, etc. They must be mature gamers for sure!

I learned those words talking to my children, reading the forums, and using Google. :-)

^^

Nappyychappy hit the nail on the head, IMO.

The definition of “casual player” doesn’t lend itself to the kind of dedication and “stickiness” you need to make a game like an MMO live for a long time.

In my honest opinion, this game is underrated. Although I can see why people tend to be angry with it.

clay.7849:

^^

Nappyychappy hit the nail on the head, IMO.

The definition of “casual player” doesn’t lend itself to the kind of dedication and “stickiness” you need to make a game like an MMO live for a long time.

Except when you’re a casual MMO player, then it doesn’t matter what your contrived definition of “casual” is.

You don’t to be a hardcore gamer (read: lots of free time) to stick with an MMO.

Casual doesn’t mean “unskilled” or “idiot.” It just means you don’t have lots of free time.

It’s also a particularly silly argument because (unlike a subscription model) prolonged playtime is not explicitly linked to revenue. All ArenaNet expects from any given account holder is that they paid retail or discounted-retail price for the product. Economically speaking it matters almost none at all that the existing casuals keep playing long-term if new casuals are buying copies and replacing them (even if they, in turn, don’t stick with the game that long).

Dedication and “stickiness” will come from a devoted community alongside a stable playerbase in numerical terms. The second half doesn’t have to come from the same group of people sticking with the game forever.

By the way I’m going to try to stop saying “casuals” from now on, it’s starting to feel like a slur. :P

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

^^

Nappyychappy hit the nail on the head, IMO.

The definition of “casual player” doesn’t lend itself to the kind of dedication and “stickiness” you need to make a game like an MMO live for a long time.

Except when you’re a casual MMO player, then it doesn’t matter what your contrived definition of “casual” is.

You don’t to be a hardcore gamer (read: lots of free time) to stick with an MMO.

Casual doesn’t mean “unskilled” or “idiot.” It just means you don’t have lots of free time.

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Calae.1738:

Aeonblade.8709:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

I’m not trying to insult people who like Disney stuff. The psychological techniques used by Disney are well known to be effective. They’re very good at what they do.

Most of what you listed for mature content is just stuff teenagers want and adults don’t care about. The hole grows ever deeper.

Game is just fine, and will be for many years.

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

A surprising and somewhat depressingly large amount of adults do want teddy bear backpacks and gingerbread swords.

Hawkian.6580:

It’s also a particularly silly argument because (unlike a subscription model) prolonged playtime is not explicitly linked to revenue. All ArenaNet expects from any given account holder is that they paid retail or discounted-retail price for the product. Economically speaking it matters almost none at all that the existing casuals keep playing long-term if new casuals are buying copies and replacing them (even if they, in turn, don’t stick with the game that long).

Dedication and “stickiness” will come from a devoted community alongside a stable playerbase in numerical terms. The second half doesn’t have to come from the same group of people sticking with the game forever.

By the way I’m going to try to stop saying “casuals” from now on, it’s starting to feel like a slur. :P

Your post assumes that there is an infinite amount of players willing to continue to buy the game. I really don’t think that is true.

The longevity of players playing the game is linked to revenue from people who want to buy expansions, to continued cash shop purchases, to getting friends to buy the game to play along with.

The sales of this game will continue to fall until the next expansion. That is the nature of the game. Longevity does drive revenue. I never thought that would actually be something questionable.

rizzo.1079:

Calae.1738:

Aeonblade.8709:

Calae.1738:

Mature content = blood, nudity, terror, coarse language, violence, politics, economics, moral controversy and scientific material.

I’m not trying to insult people who like Disney stuff. The psychological techniques used by Disney are well known to be effective. They’re very good at what they do.

Most of what you listed for mature content is just stuff teenagers want and adults don’t care about. The hole grows ever deeper.

Game is just fine, and will be for many years.

Teenagers want economics and politics? Adults want teddy bear backpacks and ginger bread swords?

A surprising and somewhat depressingly large amount of adults do want teddy bear backpacks and gingerbread swords.

I love my quaggan backpack.

clay.7849:

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Which player is more inclined to drop 50$ in the cash shop for an armor skin and some gold? The hardcore Orr farmer? Yeah, not really. If this game was funded on monthly sub fees and used gear treadmills and competition to keep people paying, then you’d have the potential of being correct.

From my perspective the game is designed to remove competition (no mob tagging, node sharing, etc) and offer better game-play instead. I don’t believe GW2 is meant to be the only game you play. Seriously, you can go play bioshock infinite for a few weeks and come back. You won’t loose you raid spot, you wont be behind the curve on the treadmills. You shouldn’t feel forced to play. Login when you want to login. Its.. liberating.

I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing. Also in game, three months later its meaningless. That kind of gaming is a disease.

Vayne.8563:

This is for all the people who claim the game is dying.

Star Wars The Old Republic ended up laying off a significant portion of their staff six months or so after launch. TSW ended up laying off a third of their staff, due to disappointing sales.

Anet, on the other hand, is hiring. Here’s the link to their website, which I got by following the shifting news on top of the main Guild Wars 2 page.

http://www.arena.net/

If Guild Wars 2 is doing so badly and the game is dying, why is Anet hiring?

This argument is pointless. I do not know if GW2 is doing well or not. Wait for the financial reports from NcSoft that happen every 3 months or so if you wanna see.

The “now hiring” message has been on the website since the beginning. Were they never able to fill these places? Or are they simply always hiring just in case someone comes by that they don’t wanna pass up on. I wouldn’t trust that add as an indication. Doom thinkers might say it’s just a tactic to make people think all is well. Truth is, I can’t say they’re wrong or right.

I don’t like the game and I do follow it here to see if the game might go in a direction that might bring me back. So far, no luck. But to speculate on whether the game is doing well or not can only be seen in financial reports and the server populations when you play. The rest is all speculation.

Without proper official data, like how many active players are playing, how many accounts are active, how many low level players are alts etc. EVERYTHING about GW2 being doom and dead or growing and getting stronger is just speculations. Without data all we have is two sides with diffrent opinions.

And GW2, like Terra or Aion and other MMO will just have its own fanbase that will keep game alive and thats all. Game wont die since MMO now just have their own audiance that just prefer this MMO over other and they keep it alive. GW2 is just another MMO for diffrent people who enjoy themselfs there. It wont make less or bigger succsses then other MMOs. Thats how market is working.

Besides now GW2 is sitting in nice safe spot, since no other big title was realeased in last months. So GW2 came after last wave (Aion, Terra, SWOTR) but before next (AA, B&S, Defiance, Neverwinter, TESO, EQnext, most this year). So for now there is not much alternative on market, and GW2 is free (no sub). We will see after other Giants premiere. But I just expect that GW2 will have its own player base regardless, not bigger, not smaller then other MMO. Just like all MMO now.

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Which player is more inclined to drop 50$ in the cash shop for an armor skin and some gold? The hardcore Orr farmer? Yeah, not really. If this game was funded on monthly sub fees and used gear treadmills and competition to keep people paying, then you’d have the potential of being correct.

From my perspective the game is designed to remove competition (no mob tagging, node sharing, etc) and offer better game-play instead. I don’t believe GW2 is meant to be the only game you play. Seriously, you can go play bioshock infinite for a few weeks and come back. You won’t loose you raid spot, you wont be behind the curve on the treadmills. You shouldn’t feel forced to play. Login when you want to login. Its.. liberating.

I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing. Also in game, three months later its meaningless. That kind of gaming is a disease.

I don’t know who is more likely to spend $50 in the cash shop? Saying that it is casual players is pure conjecture.

I also never said that one is better than the other. You seem to take offense at the thought that casual players are casual. Hardcore players, by nature, will continue to play a game, just like casual players will “login when [they] want to login.” Like you said.

It is a fact that by logging in when you want to log in is not going to favorably impact a game’s longevity. Especially, if the powers that be, such as NCSoft, see that a game’s population may be dwindling due to a casual attitude towards a game. Why would they continue to fund a game like that?

Also, your post brings up the fact that hardcare game play is unhealthy. That really has nothing to do with the conversation. McDonald’s is unhealthy and they are still in business.

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week. GW2 takes up 75% of that play time.

I’m not an outlier, either. You should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition. You seemed to have deliberately left that part out of your quote. Good job.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

Borlis Pass is packed with players and activity so it’s far from dying.

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

Are you intentionally dodging my argument?

Mackdose.6504:

Are you intentionally dodging my arguement?

What is your argument, that you make up a definition for yourself as casual, say you play for 10-14 hours a week, and predict that you will never stop playing the game or play less than you do now, and then use that as a basis to define everyone else that plays the game?

Yea, I guess I am dodging that then…

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

clay.7849:

I don’t know who is more likely to spend $50 in the cash shop? Saying that it is casual players is pure conjecture.

I made a few hundred gold playing the trading post. I’m more inclined to use that gold I acquired to buy a skin than real currency. On the other end of the spectrum, if my play time is limited would I spend it farming orr for a goodie or would I just spend a few bucks for it? Its rather obvious and the reason the cash shop exists in the first place.

clay.7849:

I also never said that one is better than the other. You seem to take offense at the thought that casual players are casual. Hardcore players, by nature, will continue to play a game, just like casual players will “login when [they] want to login.” Like you said.

So I’m offended now? Thank you for informing me.

You do understand the cash shop and box sales fund this game yes? So you’re whole spiel about the game needing devoted players to drive its profits is… dubious at best. It needs fun content to keep players loging in and wanting to buy items in the cash shop. It doesn’t need players that grind their second legendary. (Devoted players aren’t detrimental either, spelling this out here now before you take it out of content in your next reply).

clay.7849:

It is a fact that by logging in when you want to log in is not going to favorably impact a game’s longevity. Especially, if the powers that be, such as NCSoft, see that a game’s population may be dwindling due to a casual attitude towards a game. Why would they continue to fund a game like that?

You mean box sales and cash shop sales yes? Because reduced login means less operational costs….

clay.7849:

Also, your post brings up the fact that hardcare game play is unhealthy. That really has nothing to do with the conversation. McDonald’s is unhealthy and they are still in business.

Yes because “player burnout” is such a nice thing. Because having players rage in forums because the game is their life or career is a good thing. Yes, surely.

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

Uh…You just defined it. Amount of time spent in game. It speaks nothing of skill or anything. /thread

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

I’m sorry, next time read the material:

“The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.”

It also stands to reason that if a persons interest in gaming at large is limited, they wouldn’t be playing an MMO in the first place.

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

I don’t know who is more likely to spend $50 in the cash shop? Saying that it is casual players is pure conjecture.

I made a few hundred gold playing the trading post. I’m more inclined to use that gold I acquired to buy a skin than real currency. On the other end of the spectrum, if my play time is limited would I spend it farming orr for a goodie or would I just spend a few bucks for it? Its rather obvious and the reason the cash shop exists in the first place.

clay.7849:

I also never said that one is better than the other. You seem to take offense at the thought that casual players are casual. Hardcore players, by nature, will continue to play a game, just like casual players will “login when [they] want to login.” Like you said.

So I’m offended now? Thank you for informing me.

You do understand the cash shop and box sales fund this game yes? So you’re whole spiel about the game needing devoted players to drive its profits is… dubious at best. It needs fun content to keep players loging in and wanting to buy items in the cash shop. It doesn’t need players that grind their second legendary. (Devoted players aren’t detrimental either, spelling this out here now before you take it out of content in your next reply).

clay.7849:

It is a fact that by logging in when you want to log in is not going to favorably impact a game’s longevity. Especially, if the powers that be, such as NCSoft, see that a game’s population may be dwindling due to a casual attitude towards a game. Why would they continue to fund a game like that?

You mean box sales and cash shop sales yes? Because reduced login means less operational costs….

clay.7849:

Also, your post brings up the fact that hardcare game play is unhealthy. That really has nothing to do with the conversation. McDonald’s is unhealthy and they are still in business.

Yes because “player burnout” is such a nice thing. Because having players rage in forums because the game is their life or career is a good thing. Yes, surely.

You can keep using conjecture to try and make your point, but it is still conjecture.

Also, player burnout has nothing to do with this conversation. I don’t know why you are so adamant about tell us about the evils of hardcore gameplay. Really, if you are so smart about how to sell things to people, you would know that a lot of unhealthy things sell really well. Cigarettes are a really good example. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

I’m sorry, next time read the material:

“The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.”

Check the part I bolded for you. “Can also” does not mean “the only definition”.

I’m sorry but, you really failed in trying to sway my opinion by using an optional definition found on a wiki page as proof of anything.

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

I’m sorry, next time read the material:

“The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.”

Check the part I bolded for you. “Can also” does not mean “the only definition”.

I’m sorry but, you really failed in trying to sway my opinion by using an optional definition found on a wiki page as proof of anything.

It’s not optional, it’s contextual.

Either you’re talking about facebook gamers or you’re talking about people who don’t have a lot of time. Which is it?

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

Uh…You just defined it. Amount of time spent in game. It speaks nothing of skill or anything. /thread

Link?

clay.7849:

Your post assumes that there is an infinite amount of players willing to continue to buy the game. I really don’t think that is true.

The longevity of players playing the game is linked to revenue from people who want to buy expansions, to continued cash shop purchases, to getting friends to buy the game to play along with.

The sales of this game will continue to fall until the next expansion. That is the nature of the game. Longevity does drive revenue. I never thought that would actually be something questionable.

It can’t possibly have been intentional for you to have twisted the content of what I said to this degree, so I’ll just try to clarify:

1. There will never even be an infinite number of people on this plane of reality, so I can’t possibly have assumed an infinite number of players are willing to continue to buy this game. Ironically, there technically are an unlimited number of game accounts that could be sold, however, because a person can buy more than one. But before you ask, no, I don’t think this is a significant source of revenue.

What I meant was that is it less important to ensure that individual players are motivated to stick with the game for a prolonged period of time- i.e. years- because the game’s financial model does not depend on them for business revenue. Marketing, promotions and even content can be geared equally or even primarily toward attracting new players rather than ensuring that old ones continue to play. An older customer isn’t “worth more” by definition as is the case with a subscription model.

If four players quit, but four new players join, nothing changes in terms of guaranteed revenue; they’ve still sold 8 copies total and it didn’t matter how long the first four played. If four players quit a subscription MMO, four instances of recurring revenue have been removed from the company’s books. If four more join, they’re replacing the original four, but they need to stick around as long as the original four did to make up for their departure. It should be obvious how massive a difference this is in terms of a business model in practice.

2. Of course you are 100% right about longevity being linked to revenue from gem sales, potential expansion sales, and word of mouth. What I actually said was that it isn’t explicitly linked to revenue, as is the case with a subscription model. The game is seven months old. You can have played every day since launch and have paid literally no more than retail price (or, in my case, $18 less than retail price).

Because even spending a single cent after the initial cost of entry is optional (and because a huge chunk of the playerbase will never do so), such additional spending cannot be counted upon as a regular/recurring/consistent stream of revenue in terms of upkeep and infrastructure costs. Revenue obtained in this way would wisely be used in determining priority, scope and scheduling of new additions to game including eventual expansions, which would of course requite another one-time purchase, and so on…

My point was that ArenaNet does not require longevity on the part of individual players in order to be financially successful. GW2’s success requires, as I said, a devoted community (which it has) and a numerically stable, and ideally growing, playerbase- regardless of how “old” the people making up that playerbase are.

3. You casually toss out the term “continue to fall” as though you are referring to some kind of trend data or evidential phenomenon, but I have absolutely no idea what you’re referring to, or even that the term really applies… one assumes you mean the rate of sales is decreasing, since we’re not talking about the loss of guaranteed revenue (i.e.: subscriptions), but this rate will fluctuate during any given period for a huge variety of reasons… Sales/discounts, holidays involving gift-giving, and major content releases with marketing force behind them (there is some sort of Box at present that seems relatively popular) will cause spikes in the sales numbers; months with quieter releases or no external contributing factors will see dips in these numbers instead.

None of that is indicative of longevity of the individual player, especially casual players in the context of what we were discussing, being the primary force in driving revenue for this game’s future. To put it another way, unless an individual has spent $60 in gems already, it is in ArenaNet’s best interest to attract a new player rather than to ensure that player is “sticky,” to use your parlance.

Of course, anyone who has been paying attention to their releases thus far could name numerous ways in which they are doing both; my prediction is that this strategy will ensure multiple years of financial success.

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Which player is more inclined to drop 50$ in the cash shop for an armor skin and some gold? The hardcore Orr farmer? Yeah, not really. If this game was funded on monthly sub fees and used gear treadmills and competition to keep people paying, then you’d have the potential of being correct.

From my perspective the game is designed to remove competition (no mob tagging, node sharing, etc) and offer better game-play instead. I don’t believe GW2 is meant to be the only game you play. Seriously, you can go play bioshock infinite for a few weeks and come back. You won’t loose you raid spot, you wont be behind the curve on the treadmills. You shouldn’t feel forced to play. Login when you want to login. Its.. liberating.

I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing. Also in game, three months later its meaningless. That kind of gaming is a disease.

You two are off topic, and using completely different meanings of a single word to fluff your own arguments. I’d find it hard to believe that most casuals have not consumed most of the games content by now if they had started at launch, or shortly after.

“I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing”

You’re 100% correct, it means nothing in life. While it does mean a lot to those people in their lives and in the game. Explosions of emotions that people share when completing content, not only for the first time ever, but as a group, or raid is far more exciting than killing anything in this entire game.

As a gamer, casual and hardcore are very similar. The way I see it, is that hardcore take a direct path consuming content to a goal and casual bum around soaking in content as a whole. So if a hardcore player played 8 hours a week and a casual played 8 hours a week they would have a completely different view of the game.

ArenaNet gates the direct path, but sold the game as: It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Before you get mad at others for their play style, please remember that philosophy that welcomed these players who have a different opinion than yours.

clay.7849:

You can keep using conjecture to try and make your point, but it is still conjecture.

Also, player burnout has nothing to do with this conversation. I don’t know why you are so adamant about tell us about the evils of hardcore gameplay. Really, if you are so smart about how to sell things to people, you would know that a lot of unhealthy things sell really well. Cigarettes are a really good example. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

The conversation is about money. What keeps servers running, MONEY. What keeps Arena Net running? MONEY. What makes money for Guild Wars 2? Box sales and the cash shop. Its pretty obvious who is more inclined to buy gold for GW2 via the cash shop; those with limited play time who don’t want to grind.

I put one little snippet about burnout and you go on a tantrum. And why are you talking about McDonald and cigarettes? And you call my post conjecture?

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

I’m sorry, next time read the material:

“The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.”

Check the part I bolded for you. “Can also” does not mean “the only definition”.

I’m sorry but, you really failed in trying to sway my opinion by using an optional definition found on a wiki page as proof of anything.

It’s not optional, it’s contextual.

Either you’re talking about facebook gamers or you’re talking about people who don’t have a lot of time. Which is it?

So, let’s just ignore all of the definitions of casual and go with yours for a minute: limited playing time.

Great! So, your playing time is limited. What happened to all the other games you used to play? Are you still playing them? No? Why? If not, how long did you play them for? Is that amount of time you played them for indicative of the amount of time you will play GW2 for? If so, does that amount of time uphold the idea that people like you will play this game for a long time? What is a long time?

So, using your definition, we are still left wondering – if you don’t have a lot of time to play video games, and you have already stopped playing video games in the past – why is GW2 so different that you think you are going to play it longer than a hardcore gamer will play another game?

Nappychappy.7046:

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

I don’t think it means unskilled or idiot. I think it means not dedicated or devoted. In fact, that is what it means. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casual

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual. That has nothing to do with unskilled or idiot.

Please tell me again how my contrived definition of casual is not like the actual definition of casual?

Which player is more inclined to drop 50$ in the cash shop for an armor skin and some gold? The hardcore Orr farmer? Yeah, not really. If this game was funded on monthly sub fees and used gear treadmills and competition to keep people paying, then you’d have the potential of being correct.

From my perspective the game is designed to remove competition (no mob tagging, node sharing, etc) and offer better game-play instead. I don’t believe GW2 is meant to be the only game you play. Seriously, you can go play bioshock infinite for a few weeks and come back. You won’t loose you raid spot, you wont be behind the curve on the treadmills. You shouldn’t feel forced to play. Login when you want to login. Its.. liberating.

I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing. Also in game, three months later its meaningless. That kind of gaming is a disease.

You two are off topic, and using completely different meanings of a single word to fluff your own arguments. I’d find it hard to believe that most casuals have not consumed most of the games content by now if they had started at launch, or shortly after.

“I’ve done the hardcore BS before in other games. You can have a server first, the gear and achievements.. but in life it means nothing”

You’re 100% correct, it means nothing in life. While it does mean a lot to those people in their lives and in the game. Explosions of emotions that people share when completing content, not only for the first time ever, but as a group, or raid is far more exciting than killing anything in this entire game.

As a gamer, casual and hardcore are very similar. The way I see it, is that hardcore take a direct path consuming content to a goal and casual bum around soaking in content as a whole. So if a hardcore player played 8 hours a week and a casual played 8 hours a week they would have a completely different view of the game.

ArenaNet gates the direct path, but sold the game as: It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards.

Before you get mad at others for their play style, please remember that philosophy that welcomed these players who have a different opinion than yours.

I’m not getting mad. I simply used the dictionary to find the definition of the word casual. I also used a posters link to a wiki page about “video game” casual and found the same definition.

I used that definition to show that, by definition, casual players aren’t going to play a game for long.

I mean, this isn’t that hard to understand.

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Aeonblade.8709:

clay.7849:

Mackdose.6504:

clay.7849:

Casual players won’t show the kind of dedication or devotion to a game by the nature of the definition of casual.

I’m a casual player.

I only play GW2, CS:GO, LoL, BF3 and then whatever Singleplayer AAA title happens to catch my fancy.

Out of those games, GW2 dominates my hours played. I play games maybe 10-14 hrs a week.

I’m not an outlier, either. you should drill down your definition of casual because as it stands, your point doesn’t hold water.

Hold on… you missed my definition of casual in my last posts? I think I made it pretty clear. Hell, I even linked to the Merriam Webster definition.

What about the definition of casual don’t you understand?

He’s telling you the video game definition of casual and the dictionary definition mean two separate things. And they pretty much always have.

No, he thinks the definition of casual is time spent in game. I disagree. Where, exactly, is your definition of “Video Game Casual” posted? Links would help.

http://bit.ly/XVYuMb

Thanks for that! I found this:

“A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited.”

If your interest in a game is limited, it stands to reason that you won’t play it for long.

Thanks for helping me show you that your are wrong.

I’m sorry, next time read the material:

“The term casual gamer can also be used to distinguish between play styles of level-based character advance in nonlinear games with respect to the amount of dedicated hours of play. MMORPGs may require many hours of grinding to develop a character to maximum level and reach the endgame. Other games like Eve Online and The Lord of the Rings Online try to balance leveling so that casual gamers can play along with those dedicating more hours to the game.”

Check the part I bolded for you. “Can also” does not mean “the only definition”.

I’m sorry but, you really failed in trying to sway my opinion by using an optional definition found on a wiki page as proof of anything.

It’s not optional, it’s contextual.

Either you’re talking about facebook gamers or you’re talking about people who don’t have a lot of time. Which is it?

So, let’s just ignore all of the definitions of casual and go with yours for a minute: limited playing time.

Great! So, your playing time is limited. What happened to all the other games you used to play? Are you still playing them? No? Why? If not, how long did you play them for? Is that amount of time you played them for indicative of the amount of time you will play GW2 for? If so, does that amount of time uphold the idea that people like you will play this game for a long time? What is a long time?

So, using your definition, we are still left wondering – if you don’t have a lot of time to play video games, and you have already stopped playing video games in the past – why is GW2 so different that you think you are going to play it longer than a hardcore gamer will play another game?

Are we talking purely hours played, or amount of real time that elapses before I quit playing GW2 for good?

Knowing me and MMOs, I’ll probably stick with GW2 until the next evolutionary MMO comes out, considering I played WoW for 6 years.

Lol, if anyone has any questions about how well the game is doing, just open the world selection button on your character screen.

Every single US server is Very High population.
Every. Last. One!

I know of no MMO right now that can boast such a lively playerbase.

Xia.3485:

clay.7849:

You can keep using conjecture to try and make your point, but it is still conjecture.

Also, player burnout has nothing to do with this conversation. I don’t know why you are so adamant about tell us about the evils of hardcore gameplay. Really, if you are so smart about how to sell things to people, you would know that a lot of unhealthy things sell really well. Cigarettes are a really good example. It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

The conversation is about money. What keeps servers running, MONEY. What keeps Arena Net running? MONEY. What makes money for Guild Wars 2? Box sales and the cash shop. Its pretty obvious who is more inclined to buy gold for GW2 via the cash shop; those with limited play time who don’t want to grind.

I put one little snippet about burnout and you go on a tantrum. And why are you talking about McDonald and cigarettes? And you call my post conjecture?

So, you think that casual = money?

Why does EVE profit? Why did GW1 profit? Why does WoW profit?

Casual != money. In fact, casual is the opposite of making money, because casual, by definition, is limited interest in something. Limited interest = less money.

This is easy stuff.

Also, you don’t see the correlation between you saying everything is about money, then saying that hardcore play is unhealthy, and me pointing out that McDonalds and cigarettes are unhealthy but sell really well? I’m sorry if those points went over your head. I thought they were pretty easy to understand.