Guild Wars 2

JDGumby.7685:

Wethospu.6437:

I have a role. I am the hero. When everything goes wrong I will be there to finish it up.

You obviously haven’t been paying attention to the storylines. You are nothing but a flunky, easily replaceable. Especially at the end where they could’ve just gotten some random guard off the streets of Divinity’s Reach to man a cannon…

Seriously, most of the time you’re just there to run errands for Trehearne and a whiny clique straight out of a high school soap opera (Divinity’s Edge).

Yes, I was just a common man when I faced the Zhaitan. Now with the power of dodge, he wouldn’t stand a chance.

Dub.1273:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

What does soloing lupi have to do with anything? Do i get some great reward for doing it? Otherwise why would i waste my time doing that?

Because it shows that you aren’t a bad. If you’re going to call PvE easy, you should at least be able to solo a boss like Lupi. You’re just another ‘good enough is good enough’ poser.

Facepalm So you need video proof of me doing ONE thing in the game, that is just going to be me smacking a boss and dodging for 20 mins just to prove the point that the game is to easy?

It takes you 20 minutes? Thanks for proving that you’re a bad. I’ll leave you alone now.

kitten man. Im throwing in the towel. It takes me 20 mins to kill ONE boss by myself in ONE dungeon. I mean its not meant for 5 people right? Cause when i do it with a team it takes roughly 15-20 seconds.

That’d basically mean you do 1/60 of the damage your 5 men team does.

What? That literally makes no sense.

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

rjnemer.7816:

Seveleniumus.5973:

If you do nothing but press 1 and dodge, you’re doing it wrong. Most of the people who are whining, about how easy everything is, never even been to any dungeons past cof p1/p2 or fotm 20+.
Even if 1 + dodge would be the case, that would be one more action than you need to do in the situation of trinity.

I do fotm 48 everyday and i speed clear Arah. Let me tell you, neither is hard. Its just stack in a corner and stack might so you kill whatever it is faster then it kills you.

For many of the casuals, even AC is too hard.
Please show me a video of you completing fotm lv 48, doing nothing but stacking in one place.
Everything is easy if you “do it everyday.”
In any case, do you really think, that trinity makes for harder gameplay?

Zoid.2568:

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

I agree, but cc is worthless in PvE. So it comes down to just timing a dodge and auto attacking.

Basharic.1654:

Mesket.5728:

Basharic.1654:

Niim.9260:

I wish folks would stop saying ANET removed the trinity. The roles are still there and your group is often more effective for utilizing those roles.

The change ANET made was to reduce the reliance on specific classes by allowing all classes the ability to play all the roles to varying degrees, which in turn made for more hybrid roles, and they also made it so you could run in ‘everyone take care of themselves’ mode. These are great changes, imo.

Perhaps if the game had more challenging content folks would be forced into re-learning how to play as a group/team instead of just running around in ‘everyone for themselves’ mode while pretending that the game doesn’t have decent group synergy options.

The thing that always tickles me is ArenaNet really did choose the hard road here. What do you think is easier to design?

Building a boss who only ever has to directly deal with tanks from 2-4 class types. Because, unless you have a back-up tank in your party, tank death usually means a wipe.

OR

Building a boss who can present a challenge to a team of 5 players made up of any flavor of 8 professions. All of which are capable of at least briefly tanking it’s damage or avoiding it completely. AND picking up defeated pleayers.

I’m all for faulting ArenaNet for poor boss design. I think many of the bosses at launch were badly done. World dragons/bosses are the absolute worst of these. But I’m willing to give ArenaNet time to adjust to how well we players can work their combat system.
The reason I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt is that they DO have some interesting and tough bosses in game, and every revamp of mobs they have done has added skills and abilities to them.

For example did anyone of us give a second thought to fighting Veteran Risen Acolytes before their buff? Now how many players avoid them completely?

The 5 man content we’ve seen from living story has all been plenty interesting (re MF and AR), even if it wasn’t always the most challenging. I think we as players often forget how bloody difficult it is to bring something genuinely good consistently to market.

When a designer decides to increase difficulty by increasing the damage and number of mobs… you cannot defend them saying they are not taking the easy way out.

They had an idea,… people didn’t get it and started complaining on the forums and content was nerfed to the ground. What we have now? trivialized content that 5 monkeys on zerk gear stacking together can complete one handed. So… they are clearly taking the easy way out.

I disagree.

You can’t just point to CoF and use it for an example of everything in the game. It’s the easiest of the easy.

I’d like to see a zerker team burn down Ghost Eater. I do believe a good zerk team could do it in one and definitely two traps. But they ain’t doing it by ignoring the mechanics.

AC is the only dungeon that has been redone to date. Molten facility wasn’t designed to be that hard but I still have my doubts about zerkers one-handing it. Same for AR.

Out in the open world we have all manner of mobs getting more abilities, especially in Orr. To the point where certain events were broken because of them. One new ability from risen nobles single handedly shut down Warmaster Chan for months. Arenanet is still at it too, somewhere in the recent past Risen Ravagers were updated to throw down chaos storm. REGULAR Risen Ravagers I might add.

I think once they start to get a good handle on how well players are using the combat system and some time to work out proper challenges, we are going to see some very interesting things.

I’m not talking about CoF, I’m talking about all the rest of the dungeons. Initially they were harder than they are now. AC is the only one that had a revamp (after it was previously nerfed); but almost everything else that got hit by the nerf bat wasn’t and you can’t tell me its a work in progress… come on. It’s been months. It is no longer a matter of we are working on it. They are now revamping Tequatl. Lets see how that goes and how long will it take to revamp all the other world bosses.

(still, not a single content was improved towards the roles given by ANet: Damage, Control and Support. As long as there is no need for roles, this can’t; by definition, be a role playing game. It is merely a nice hack n slash).

rjnemer.7816:

Zoid.2568:

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

I agree, but cc is worthless in PvE. So it comes down to just timing a dodge and auto attacking.

CC isn’t useless in PvE. It is useless against bosses though but not against thrash mobs and veterans. You can slow, chill, poison, stun, daze, blind, torment etc. If they made condition builds more viable CC would be much more appreciated and also do something about CC on bosses.

Seveleniumus.5973:

rjnemer.7816:

Seveleniumus.5973:

If you do nothing but press 1 and dodge, you’re doing it wrong. Most of the people who are whining, about how easy everything is, never even been to any dungeons past cof p1/p2 or fotm 20+.
Even if 1 + dodge would be the case, that would be one more action than you need to do in the situation of trinity.

I do fotm 48 everyday and i speed clear Arah. Let me tell you, neither is hard. Its just stack in a corner and stack might so you kill whatever it is faster then it kills you.

For many of the casuals, even AC is too hard.
Please show me a video of you completing fotm lv 48, doing nothing but stacking in one place.
Everything is easy if you “do it everyday.”
In any case, do you really think, that trinity makes for harder gameplay?

No it doesnt, BUT, how Gw2 stands it doesnt have any system. It has a ton of potential, its just not being used.

rjnemer.7816:

Zoid.2568:

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

I agree, but cc is worthless in PvE. So it comes down to just timing a dodge and auto attacking.

Never mind that most boons (and quite a few conditions) are stack on duration only, meaning that the only difference between a dedicated built and one doing it as a sideline is that they last a second or two longer.

Oh and there is also the issue of greifing. ANet went out of their way in the initial PVE design to limit how the game could be griefed. Things like mobs corruping boons could potentially be used by a griefer by continually granting whatever boons the mob triggers on, and so on.

Zoid.2568:

rjnemer.7816:

Zoid.2568:

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

I agree, but cc is worthless in PvE. So it comes down to just timing a dodge and auto attacking.

CC isn’t useless in PvE. It is useless against bosses though but not against thrash mobs and veterans. You can slow, chill, poison, stun, daze, blind, torment etc. If they made condition builds more viable CC would be much more appreciated and also do something about CC on bosses.

Slow and chill are soft CC (and one of them is only really useful against melee mobs), blind only acts on a single attack (never mind that we have a whole subset of mobs that are by default immune), stun and daze do not have the duration to be utilized properly (you can’t daze/stun and melt a mob like you can a opponent in PVP, because of the larger health pools mobs are granted), poison is just a weak burn because few if any mobs heal, and torment is not a CC as mobs don’t care about the damage they take (stand still and it hurts, move and it hurts even more).

digiowl.9620:

Namu.5712:

^ like vigor on crit.

Game is overly simple and too easy. The combat style is better than trinity. But its implementation is not.

That may be another issue, the number of traits and runes that have on crit procs.

This means that you can run zerker and still get various benefits because you can drive the crit chance so high it becomes your new normal. Hell, just look at the mess that was life steal on crit food. It made GS warriors outperform necromancers life steal.

Yup, too many things in this game reward going full on dps. Get healing for doing more critting, get more endurance for critting more.

Why aren’t there rewards for oh I dont know… healing. Increase power and crit chance for each heal landed? Something like that that actually promotes other builds.

GW2 is tunnel visioned on dps. Its not all there is to the game no, but really why pick something slower when you can do more damage and get the same result faster. This is due to the dodging playing such a major role in the game. That you don’t really have to sacrifice anything. Especially if your on a profession like a gaurdian. Messed up? Put that aegis up and save your hide from bad gameplay while in full dps gear.

Kids these days… Thinking the trinity was traditional? Pah!
It was a quartet. You needed crowd control too because adds were murderous.

::: goes back to West Karana :::

Interesting that this is the actual record for speedkilling lupicus.
Guess who’s point of view that is.

Dub.1273:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jv3_7SzSgo

Interesting that this is the actual record for speedkilling lupicus.
Guess who’s point of view that is.

oOooOOOoooO pick me!

Is it you?

AntiGw.9367:

Ping.5739:

Trinity is good. Removing it can be good, but it also produces this guardian-warrior-mesmer problem.

Trinity is bad.

Guardian-warrior-mesmer problem is produced by horrible AI and boss mechanics.

Guardian-warrior-mesmer is not a problem; it is a solution. It’s humans being humans and finding things that work with the stuff you’ve got to work with. Absent meaningful roles being supported by the game itself, I think you will find ad hoc team compositions that emulate meaningful roles like this dungeon trinity.

digiowl.9620:

Zoid.2568:

rjnemer.7816:

Zoid.2568:

Personal player skill with the use of timing,CC and support abilities is better than the holy trinity, yes.

I agree, but cc is worthless in PvE. So it comes down to just timing a dodge and auto attacking.

CC isn’t useless in PvE. It is useless against bosses though but not against thrash mobs and veterans. You can slow, chill, poison, stun, daze, blind, torment etc. If they made condition builds more viable CC would be much more appreciated and also do something about CC on bosses.

Slow and chill are soft CC (and one of them is only really useful against melee mobs), blind only acts on a single attack (never mind that we have a whole subset of mobs that are by default immune), stun and daze do not have the duration to be utilized properly (you can’t daze/stun and melt a mob like you can a opponent in PVP, because of the larger health pools mobs are granted), poison is just a weak burn because few if any mobs heal, and torment is not a CC as mobs don’t care about the damage they take (stand still and it hurts, move and it hurts even more).

You can set up a guardian to drop a blind on each F1, while bringing the cooldown to zero each time you kill a mob/player, along with the other blinds available, a guardian can be a pretty effective blinding machine, thus making it a highly helpful support condition. And that’s just one example, I’m sure a Mesmer or whatever other class could come here and show you by A + B how conditions can make you and your group’s day a brighter day.

rjnemer.7816:

Dub.1273:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

What does soloing lupi have to do with anything? Do i get some great reward for doing it? Otherwise why would i waste my time doing that?

Because it shows that you aren’t a bad. If you’re going to call PvE easy, you should at least be able to solo a boss like Lupi. You’re just another ‘good enough is good enough’ poser.

Facepalm So you need video proof of me doing ONE thing in the game, that is just going to be me smacking a boss and dodging for 20 mins just to prove the point that the game is to easy?

It takes you 20 minutes? Thanks for proving that you’re a bad. I’ll leave you alone now.

kitten man. Im throwing in the towel. It takes me 20 mins to kill ONE boss by myself in ONE dungeon. I mean its not meant for 5 people right? Cause when i do it with a team it takes roughly 15-20 seconds.

That’d basically mean you do 1/60 of the damage your 5 men team does.

What? That literally makes no sense.

Since modbot deleted and infracted my response for being rude (wtf?) i’ll just write it again:

Indeed.
You’d deal 1/80 to 1/60 of your 5 men teams damage then.
1/80 of your parties damage would (hey bot, can you recognise this please) make you an even worse leech.

Let’s see how long this post survives, the forums moderation is seriously kittened up and apparently just infracts/deletes all posts that get reported without checking.

By the way you can actually send an email asking for a review of an infraction, I found out recently when opening the PM telling me about my 17th infraction.

My warrior in full berserker can do anything in the game. The survivability is really good because out of the closest players I’m the last one to get targeted because of my low armor. I dont need the support or control of any other professions i used zerker warrior to beat liadri and could probably solo lots of dungeon paths with it too. I have soloed some champions. It helps when you hit 30k+ with 1 ability. Where healing and CC could help it doesn’t matter and this is why. Healing skills are weak. The best one is healing spring, heal for 5k with a 30s cd. Too bad when you will get hit for 5-15k from every attack by bosses and actually some veteran mobs too. CC is useless because of defiant. There is so much defiant stacks + 20 defiant stacks sometimes pulling of a CC is too much effort to be worth it. Not to mention bosses have millions of hp 2+ million. vets have + 60k hp. During Atherblade invasion minigame on level 4, a veteran mob would have 150k hp or more if you did it with a full party.
If you want to contribute as much as possible to you’re party you have to use a warrior in full berserker which have the highest stable cleaving DPS.
In some situations not highest, If a ele pull of fiery rush and whirlwind on a mob stuck in a wall then they will do more damage and there a few more situations like this but overall Warrior just have more hp and they hit hard always, not to mention signet of stamina is all the defense you will ever need more evades.
I personally think this is bad game design but until you will have to use something else than auto attack to win i will be using warrior.

Dub.1273:

rjnemer.7816:

Dub.1273:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

rjnemer.7816:

What does soloing lupi have to do with anything? Do i get some great reward for doing it? Otherwise why would i waste my time doing that?

Because it shows that you aren’t a bad. If you’re going to call PvE easy, you should at least be able to solo a boss like Lupi. You’re just another ‘good enough is good enough’ poser.

Facepalm So you need video proof of me doing ONE thing in the game, that is just going to be me smacking a boss and dodging for 20 mins just to prove the point that the game is to easy?

It takes you 20 minutes? Thanks for proving that you’re a bad. I’ll leave you alone now.

kitten man. Im throwing in the towel. It takes me 20 mins to kill ONE boss by myself in ONE dungeon. I mean its not meant for 5 people right? Cause when i do it with a team it takes roughly 15-20 seconds.

That’d basically mean you do 1/60 of the damage your 5 men team does.

What? That literally makes no sense.

Since modbot deleted and infracted my response for being rude (wtf?) i’ll just write it again:

Indeed.
You’d deal 1/80 to 1/60 of your 5 men teams damage then.
1/80 of your parties damage would (hey bot, can you recognise this please) make you an even worse leech.

Let’s see how long this post survives, the forums moderation is seriously kittened up and apparently just infracts/deletes all posts that get reported without checking.

Probably because you are way off topic, but that’s just my guess.

As for the topic, the trinity doesn’t need to be here… I don’t expect it to be here, or required at any point, and that’s fine. I feel they are on the right path but need to refine the fight designs and the class abilities. Make them more meaningful, the game would feel less spammy and more engaging if you actually had to manage resources or something of that sort.

Just because the game doesn’t have a tank role doesn’t mean that bosses should not require tanking, let me elaborate. Have situations where all the members of the party have to take turns tanking due to a debuff or some other mechanic. Make kiting something fun…design the settings boss fights take place in to harbor kiting in unique ways.

I’m just brainstorming. Basically I feel they can make this a lot better than it is atm without a designated trinity.

dcypher.2590:

Just because the game doesn’t have a tank role doesn’t mean that bosses should not require tanking, let me elaborate. Have situations where all the members of the party have to take turns tanking due to a debuff or some other mechanic. Make kiting something fun…design the settings boss fights take place in to harbor kiting in unique ways.

There’s no mechanic to control aggro so no way to take turns tanking.

Kitting something isn’t fun because ranged weapons are pea shooters compared to melee, so kitting something means a slow and boring fight.

stof.9341:

dcypher.2590:

Just because the game doesn’t have a tank role doesn’t mean that bosses should not require tanking, let me elaborate. Have situations where all the members of the party have to take turns tanking due to a debuff or some other mechanic. Make kiting something fun…design the settings boss fights take place in to harbor kiting in unique ways.

There’s no mechanic to control aggro so no way to take turns tanking.

Kitting something isn’t fun because ranged weapons are pea shooters compared to melee, so kitting something means a slow and boring fight.

I mean you pretty much just ignored what I suggested about kiting, but okay. There’s no reason they couldn’t design it to be fun, that’s all perspective. The fights need variance anyway.

Also, people usually don’t suggest things that are already in game to be added. Aggro should be controllable. That’s not to say that one person has to be a tank, it’s all about implementation. MMOs are unique in that they constantly evolve, so just because aggro isn’t in now doesn’t mean it can’t be in the future.

Mesket.5728:

I’m not talking about CoF, I’m talking about all the rest of the dungeons. Initially they were harder than they are now. AC is the only one that had a revamp (after it was previously nerfed); but almost everything else that got hit by the nerf bat wasn’t and you can’t tell me its a work in progress… come on. It’s been months. It is no longer a matter of we are working on it. They are now revamping Tequatl. Lets see how that goes and how long will it take to revamp all the other world bosses.

(still, not a single content was improved towards the roles given by ANet: Damage, Control and Support. As long as there is no need for roles, this can’t; by definition, be a role playing game. It is merely a nice hack n slash).

You are either lying or have been lied to.

Nothing in my memory or the patch notes on this site say anything about a broad scale Dungeon difficulty nerf.

The closest thing you will find is a nerf to mob health and armor in CoE (and ONLY CoE) and a nerf to the searing effigy’s difficulty in CoF in early October 2012.

Outside of that there are a couple tweaks to Arah bosses. Almost every single other change to dungeons has been bug fixing, exploit closing, the AC update, fractals and my personal favorite; closing WP’s to players in combat. Which actually made dungeons a little harder.

It was 5 months from launch to the AC upgrade in February. We are about 6-7 months since that. During that time we’ve had 2 new dungeons added in. So IF you want to use AC as a template we are a bit overdue. That is a big if.

I suppose when my I took my warrior in to deal with Mai Trin it was just my imagination when I used my banner to pick up my downed guildies during the lightning wall fight or the barrage in the final fight. Or when we all stacked swiftness on each other to spread out during that bombardment. And I’m sure layering our group condition removals had nothing to do with taking Mai down, nor did we ever use a time warp, or prot, or ageis, vigor or aoe heals.

The fact you can’t see this drives home my point:

The ArenaNet trinity just isn’t nearly as obvious as the traditional trinity. This is because good players are constantly and seamlessly swapping roles on the fly as needed. In any single group fight we can and SHOULD be nuking, throwing buffs and fields, rezzing, CCing, and healing.

Now the infamous zerker teams are doing a lot less rezzing, but again it’s because the content they are doing they know so well that no one goes down. No one going down while exploiting class synergies is the point. This lets them focus on damage, using the GW2 trinity to boost that damage. There is nothing wrong with that, and exploiting class synergies to their fullest potential is absolutely making use of the new trinity.

Why anyone would prefer to be pigeonholed into only doing one aspect of the trinity well is quite honestly baffling to me.

The “active combat” in GW2 is definitely better than trinity. When I got bored of GW2 a few months back. I tried Rift again because it is free to play now. I had tried it before when it was in Beta and though it was amazing. Now I couldn’t even get past level 5…..it was that boring. You could say the GW2 combat ruined the traditional combat system for me.

The problem with GW2 combat is the limited skills and the shallow boss mechanics.

Caramel Ham.4891:

The “active combat” in GW2 is definitely better than trinity. When I got bored of GW2 a few months back. I tried Rift again because it is free to play now. I had tried it before when it was in Beta and though it was amazing. Now I couldn’t even get past level 5…..it was that boring. You could say the GW2 combat ruined the traditional combat system for me.

The problem with GW2 combat is the limited skills and the shallow boss mechanics.

Well you could try a game with active combat, AND trinity. And much much more interesting dungeons and boss fights strangely. I’m thinking of Tera here.

Though you might feel bored at level 5 too cause the leveling part isn’t exactly fun :p

Beast Sos.1457:

The only reason ppl r sitting there spamming one is bc we werent given proper content to do. the game can be sooooo much more but yet we keep getting easy mode stuff. i hope the teq update is actually difficult and gives ppl a taste of what gw2 combat can actually be and what standing there spamming one will do to u if the content is properly made.

this

Every skill is useful. The game is just too easy and people don’t need to use them. Liadri, the Concealing Dark is another thing – she is the best example how to do challenging boss fight where you need to use all of your abilities in the right time. At least I had to on my guardian…