Guild Wars 2

Beldin.5498:

Godzzila.3752:

Beldin.5498:

Godzzila.3752:

Beldin.5498:

This is not the gear-grinder you are looking for .. please move on instead of trying
to turn it into one.

Yes it is. This game is all about grind.
Fractals are grind.
Champion run is grind.
Zerging around in new content is grind.

Only diffrence is that you are grinding for no progress

I said GEAR-grinder .. with that i meant the endless spiral of better gear and
that never makes you really better because as soon as you have it you go to
the next higher raid where you do the same damage to the mobs like in the
dungeon before, because the mobs have higher armor and they hit harder so
you also get the same damage .. so in the end your progress is no progress at
all ..

You can do the same here .. do one dungeon 100-200 time .. then buy a new set
from tokens .. and delete all your old stuff .. now take another dungeon .. do it
200 times .. buy set from tokens .. delete all old stuff … move on to next

That is in the end what you do in all those gear-grinders.

What the hell are you even talking about? This game is all about grind, gear-grind too, except only for cosmetic porposes. While in other games you grind to have better gear to do a certain thing better, here you are grinding for NOTHING only than looking slightly better. You don’t grind because weapon X will deal more damage, you grind because weapon X looks better. Nevertheless you are grinding.

Every MMO is about grind .. Endgame is just another word for grind.

However here i can grind whererver and whatever i want, while in other games i’m
doomed to grind stuff that i hate (aka raids) else i get nothing than crap.

Don’t forget that your grind can be extended by RNG or that idiot who died two minutes into the fight and takes the last piece of gear you need and have been showing up for more often than him, coming with actual food and potion buffs and….GOD I HATED RAIDING!

Endgame is already here. Just because you dont like it doesn’t mean it isn’t.
Just because I hate Justin Beiber doesn’t mean that he isn’t a successful musician. But I have multitudes of other music to listen to and enjoy fully.
Just like you have tons of other games to play where you can grind a treadmill for yeas on end for a fee, if that is what you will enjoy.

We have reached the point where we are trying to complain about grinding in MMORPGs.

Next, let’s play a Halo game and complain about too much shooting.

it is rly annoying to see this people here always jump on everything with stupid arguments like “geargrind qq” and “dont play it” ….. seriously

noone said PROGRESS have to be geargrind

just look in wvw they addet the wxp system – this IS progress and no geargrind
look in spvp this ranksystem – this IS progress and no geargrind

so to just bring 1 simple system to explain wtf i talk about:

bring HERO lvls for pve and you can lvl this only with doing things in pve

• easy repeatble things low pointz
• hard things a lot pointz

like
for the simple things:

• 1 dungeon/fraktal compelte 10 hero point
• 1 temple event/worldboss 1 point
  for the special things:
• liadri archievment(there have to be more than like this) gives 500 pointz
  other special things:
• 500 points on wxp lvl 1000, pvp rank 80, Archievement 10000 …..

now for this they could sell things for this pointz like precursor 5000-10000 points
or recipes, minis, homeinstance things, maby gems?, ….. stuff like this

or make it a lvl system and give 1 hero lvl all 5000 points and bring something like this wxp traits but for pve ……

• like lower waypoint costs,
• +5% extra runspeed out of combat(add to the 25%)(works not in wvw or pvp)
• gems?
• special armor or weapon skins
• precursor?
• whatever
• different spell colours or soundeffects

i just typed random ideas and numbers jsut to say progress has nothing to do with geargrind

bye

Fractals, livining story, WvW and Spvp are all end game content imo. Esp wvw for me after level up, geared up and learn how to play your toons, its time to test you skills in battle aka(wvw).

Romek.4201:

it is rly annoying to see this people here always jump on everything with stupid arguments like “geargrind qq” and “dont play it” ….. seriously

noone said PROGRESS have to be geargrind

just look in wvw they addet the wxp system – this IS progress and no geargrind
look in spvp this ranksystem – this IS progress and no geargrind

so to just bring 1 simple system to explain wtf i talk about:

bring HERO lvls for pve and you can lvl this only with doing things in pve

• easy repeatble things low pointz
• hard things a lot pointz

like
for the simple things:

• 1 dungeon/fraktal compelte 10 hero point
• 1 temple event/worldboss 1 point
  for the special things:
• liadri archievment(there have to be more than like this) gives 500 pointz
  other special things:
• 500 points on wxp lvl 1000, pvp rank 80, Archievement 10000 …..

now for this they could sell things for this pointz like precursor 5000-10000 points
or recipes, minis, homeinstance things, maby gems?, ….. stuff like this

or make it a lvl system and give 1 hero lvl all 5000 points and bring something like this wxp traits but for pve ……

• like lower waypoint costs,
• +5% extra runspeed out of combat(add to the 25%)(works not in wvw or pvp)
• gems?
• special armor or weapon skins
• precursor?
• whatever
• different spell colours or soundeffects

i just typed random ideas and numbers jsut to say progress has nothing to do with geargrind

bye

That could work, but it also sounds a lot like the achievement system. It would still be a grind though (people have to face facts that every mmo has grind, there just has to be a difference between optional and forced grind. Gw2 goes with optional, where you only grind for what you want, while games such as wow make it required to stay competitive after every patch).

Your suggestions could be incorporated into the achievement system, turn ap into yet another currency to purchase such items. Or heck, they could throw in some big rewards like a precursor or something at the major tiers (though I like the free diamonds).

Also, this is what anet likes to see more of. Ideas of what endgame can be that aren’t in the norm of other MMOs.

vincecontix.1264:

Fractals, livining story, WvW and Spvp are all end game content imo. Esp wvw for me after level up, geared up and learn how to play your toons, its time to test you skills in battle aka(wvw).

PVP in general is a joke. Completly unbalanced you can either zerg around or if you have very specific classes you can wonder in small groups, other than that there are classes that are godlike really hard to fight with (GUARDIANS / WARRIORS) and completly weak classes with no use other than be kicked in the butt (RANGER) so in order for WvW to first be considered end-game content it would have to be balanced t ostart with.We are nowhere close to that

PvE progress like what you see in WvW and sPvP is calleed leveling mate. Those Hero Ranks are called levels.

The whole Dry Top zone could have been gated behind a gear check. They could even lower the map hard cap so zergs become smaller and content can’t be cheesed through with sheer numbers.

But doing this will make GW2 similar to every other mmo.

WoW adds new instances that are gated behind other instances so players have to grind through one repeatedly, get the drops they need, and then proceed to the next one.

They could have made Tequatl occupy an instance, and have him drop better than exotic gear on a loot table. Then have players run that ad nauseam before they can get a decent shot at Triple Wurm.

Then put Wurm in another instance with better than Tequatl drops on another loot table, and have players grind that ad nauseam for the next boss.

It’s obvious they avoided that on purpose.

If GW2 wants to hold true to its philosophy of horizontal progression, how about adding generic utility skills that can be unlocked.

They don’t even need one for every class. Just have new skills in broad categories that can be used by different classes. Shouts, heals, signets can be equipped by many profs.

Once they get players to focus more on skill/trait synergy, the focus on better gear as a form of progression becomes secondary.

MrIllusion.5304:

The whole Dry Top zone could have been gated behind a gear check. They could even lower the map hard cap so zergs become smaller and content can’t be cheesed through with sheer numbers.

But doing this will make GW2 similar to every other mmo.

WoW adds new instances that are gated behind other instances so players have to grind through one repeatedly, get the drops they need, and then proceed to the next one.

They could have made Tequatl occupy an instance, and have him drop better than exotic gear on a loot table. Then have players run that ad nauseam before they can get a decent shot at Triple Wurm.

Then put Wurm in another instance with better than Tequatl drops on another loot table, and have players grind that ad nauseam for the next boss.

It’s obvious they avoided that on purpose.

If GW2 wants to hold true to its philosophy of horizontal progression, how about adding generic utility skills that can be unlocked.

They don’t even need one for every class. Just have new skills in broad categories that can be used by different classes. Shouts, heals, signets can be equipped by many profs.

Once they get players to focus more on skill/trait synergy, the focus on better gear as a form of progression becomes secondary.

I agree with what you said, but there is caution. If too many skills and traits are added, there is bloat and most fall to the wayside since they aren’t good enough (this also happened in wow with their skill trees and abilities, now they are axing and combining abilities to reduce to smaller amounts).

I think the new traits they added during the features patch was a test amount, to see how they worked and if it was too much at once. I’m hoping they will do a larger batch next time, but then again, they have to do enough testing so each trait or ability to make sure it doesn’t eclipse something else. Which of course this takes time, in which most mmo players have little to no patience.

Romek.4201:

it is rly annoying to see this people here always jump on everything with stupid arguments like “geargrind qq” and “dont play it” ….. seriously

noone said PROGRESS have to be geargrind

just look in wvw they addet the wxp system – this IS progress and no geargrind
look in spvp this ranksystem – this IS progress and no geargrind

so to just bring 1 simple system to explain wtf i talk about:

bring HERO lvls for pve and you can lvl this only with doing things in pve

• easy repeatble things low pointz
• hard things a lot pointz

like
for the simple things:

• 1 dungeon/fraktal compelte 10 hero point
• 1 temple event/worldboss 1 point
  for the special things:
• liadri archievment(there have to be more than like this) gives 500 pointz
  other special things:
• 500 points on wxp lvl 1000, pvp rank 80, Archievement 10000 …..

now for this they could sell things for this pointz like precursor 5000-10000 points
or recipes, minis, homeinstance things, maby gems?, ….. stuff like this

or make it a lvl system and give 1 hero lvl all 5000 points and bring something like this wxp traits but for pve ……

• like lower waypoint costs,
• +5% extra runspeed out of combat(add to the 25%)(works not in wvw or pvp)
• gems?
• special armor or weapon skins
• precursor?
• whatever
• different spell colours or soundeffects

i just typed random ideas and numbers jsut to say progress has nothing to do with geargrind

bye

So… achievements then? We have those, thanks.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Romek.4201:

it is rly annoying to see this people here always jump on everything with stupid arguments like “geargrind qq” and “dont play it” ….. seriously

noone said PROGRESS have to be geargrind

just look in wvw they addet the wxp system – this IS progress and no geargrind
look in spvp this ranksystem – this IS progress and no geargrind

so to just bring 1 simple system to explain wtf i talk about:

bring HERO lvls for pve and you can lvl this only with doing things in pve

• easy repeatble things low pointz
• hard things a lot pointz

like
for the simple things:

• 1 dungeon/fraktal compelte 10 hero point
• 1 temple event/worldboss 1 point
  for the special things:
• liadri archievment(there have to be more than like this) gives 500 pointz
  other special things:
• 500 points on wxp lvl 1000, pvp rank 80, Archievement 10000 …..

now for this they could sell things for this pointz like precursor 5000-10000 points
or recipes, minis, homeinstance things, maby gems?, ….. stuff like this

or make it a lvl system and give 1 hero lvl all 5000 points and bring something like this wxp traits but for pve ……

• like lower waypoint costs,
• +5% extra runspeed out of combat(add to the 25%)(works not in wvw or pvp)
• gems?
• special armor or weapon skins
• precursor?
• whatever
• different spell colours or soundeffects

i just typed random ideas and numbers jsut to say progress has nothing to do with geargrind

bye

So… achievements then? We have those, thanks.

no not archievements – you even read?

or is wxp system in wvw or rank system in spvp archievement too?

I understand what OP means. I’ve read a couple of comments and I first saw the comparison with Bioware games/Skyrim. Those are singleplayer games. This is an MMO, which, imo, is different from a singleplayer RPG. Sure, they are both RPG’s, but a MMO needs to be alot more. People who play singleplayer RPG’s expect different things from a game than players who play MMO’s(at least, that’s the experience I have with my friends who play games.)

To return to the fact if there is endgame. First I want to say this is purely my opinion, i’m not saying ‘facts’ about the game or anything, just how I experience it.
The road to level 80 is fun. I have lvl 80’s of every race and the fact that you have a different story for the first 30 levels and then you can choose which of the 3 orders you want to join is great! So that’s really a positive thing! On the other hand, the only thing that got me to level 80 was the quests(hearts) and the exp you get from the personal story. Sure, you can craft yourself a bit of levels and get some exp from world discovery, but the majority of the exp I got was from the hearts and the personal story quests, and ofcourse the dynamic events(which are nice btw). After a couple of those that gets boring… Real dungeons begin on level 80, there were no low level dungeons in which you got gear that was for your level, only better than the normal gear you would obtain at that level. I’m comparing this now with other MMO’s i’ve played or still play (World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV: ARR) You get to do dungeons under the level cap, which are designed for the lower levels. It’s a nice thing to not just be grinding quests. Because for me, after a little while, it feels like grinding to me. Walk to the next heart, do the thing the heart requires(which most of times is the same thing) and go to the next one.

Now for the endgame. You play MMO’s because you have the feeling there is no end to it. I feel like i’ve ended Guild Wars. Finished personal story, got world completion, and always finish the new living story episodes in about 2 hours.

(Part 2 in post underneath this one)

Sure, people will say: go for ascended, go for legendary, go for achievments, go play spvp and wvw.

First, I have ascended gear. Weapons and armor. To me, it was not worth it. I don’t use the skins, maybe one or two, and moving from exotic to ascended didn’t feel like much of an improvement to me. So I’ve done that, didn’t feel rewarded or anything like that.
Legendary…. There isn’t more grinding in this game than a legendary. You have to grind the materials, and ofcourse you can be lucky to get a precursor from the mystic toilet or as a drop, but to be sure you have to grind things to obtain money to buy them of the TP. And still, when you get a legendary it doesn’t feel like it. No better stats than ascended. Some skins are just awfull(Im talking to you rainbow unicorn shooting bow and discoball) and the other ones…. Meh, they are cool sure, but not worth ALL that time.

Spvp and WvW. I’m just not into pvp. I’ve done it enough, sure, so at least I can say I’ve experienced every aspect of the game, but it’s not my cup of tea. And IMO, a game’s endgame shouldn’t only involve PvP aspects.

Now the achievments. They just don’t feel rewarding. Only 5% of the achievments is really rewarding to me. This involves achievments which give you special items(but most of the time, those items are useless, like Mini liadri, shows you have done some pretty hard content which really took effort to complete, but that mini…..) and achievements which earn you title’s that really mean something(Like The Blazing Light). Other than that, it’s just achievment points. You get rewards from achievment points, sure, a title and some skins which are not that great IMO. Other than that, you don’t get anything which you couldn’t obtain on any other way.

Most of the endgame content in MMO’s involves dungeons and raids. First thing to say, the dungeons lack in quality and quantity. Almost every dungeon is just typical zerg and there are almost no dungeons. Sure, every dungeon has paths, but come on, it’s just the same, just different name’s you are killing. Ofcourse, ANet said they don’t want you to keep up with everything in order to play these things, but you could at least bring some subtle changes.
WoW for instance, has dungeons on normal difficulty and heroic. People who don’t want to keep up with gear can keep playing on normal difficulty, people who want better gear(and maybe for balance reasons, that better gear is only useable in the dungeon or whatever) can go to the challenging heroic difficulty. Brings variation in both the way you play dungeons and the way you obtain gear.

What have I done after I’ve reached level 80? Well, I have done alot of things, but was it rewarding? At level 80, I bought full named exotic gear. Almost 1.5 years further and I still run that gear. On another character I have full ascended like I said, but after doing it on 1 character it turned out for me the difference was almost negligible, so i’m not doing that for all my other characters. It’s not rewarding. So I still run with full exotic that I have obtained 1.5 years ago. I played all the living story’s. Was fun(as long as it lasted though), but didn’t give me anything that make me feel like I did something good. It was like, yeah I did it, ok….

Now people will say: The living story you get every 2 weeks is the end-game! It keeps you occupied and you have something to do!
In my opinion, it’s great they add it, sure it’s fun for the 2 hours it lasts. But I get the feeling they want to make Guild wars a singleplayer game. I mean, what aspect of an MMO is there to the living story? Yeah, farming and grinding dry top that is…. But the rest is all singleplayer(ofc the achievments which sometimes need to be done in a group, but still, achievements=not rewarding). If I want to play a story I would play the earlier mentioned Bioware games. But that’s not what I want, I want a MMO, and IMO I feel like they let that get out of sight…

So after all that, what is there to do end-game. Nothing, at least not for me.
I don’t want it to be like WoW that when you haven’t played for 2 weeks you already lack the gear to play the new content, but you can do it in other ways. At least do something, and don’t make me play a singleplayer RPG.

For the record, this is just MY OPINION. This is how I experience it. And it hurts me to type it. Because this game has so much potential and it feels so great. That’s why I keep returning. But when I return it feels great to play the game, but after 1 hour I suddenly realize why I left in the first place, because there is nothing to do…. And I find that a real shame. And come on, it’s just not normal to kill Tequatl and only get 1 rare and when you salvage it you get 1 ecto… Rest is all masterwork or other crap. Come on, talk about bad rewards….
Make this game rewarding again. Make me feel like I progress with my character.

I never really understood the whole “end game” concept.

I think possibly because before GW2 I was mainly playing single-player games where no one makes that distinction – if you’ve got stuff to do still then you haven’t reached the end, and when you do reach the end there is nothing left to play, you have to find a new game or start over.

But I reached level 80 back in April 2013, got a full set of exotic gear from the temples in Orr almost immediately and I feel like I’ve had plenty to do since. There’s map completion, WvW, PvP, dungeons, Fractals, the Living Story, levelling crafting, making ascended gear, making a legendary, and so on.

I’m not sure how much of that qualifies as (un)officially designated “end game” content, because as I said I don’t really understand the concept, but it’s all stuff you can do after level 80.

To me it’s basically that after level 80 this game becomes more like a sandbox game where you have a whole range of different activities and you don’t have to do any of them, you can pick and choose what to do.

@Illuminati pretty much the way I feel. Nothing to do except for “personal challenges” as in objectives you create for your self such as: Create legendary…

Godzzila.3752:

@Illuminati pretty much the way I feel. Nothing to do except for “personal challenges” as in objectives you create for your self such as: Create legendary…

I think this might also be why I struggle to understand the difference between what’s on offer in this game and what people mean when they talk about end game.

I’ve played a lot of games where right from the start there was nothing except objectives you create for yourself.

Like Minecraft. You don’t have to do anything in that game, you don’t need to build a house or make weapons and armor or tame a horse or find a fortress in the Nether or whatever. And if you do there are no special rewards beyond what you’ve done (the house you built, the weapons you made etc.) but people still manage to spend hundreds of hours playing that game and have a lot of fun doing it.

I don’t understand why the game has to make your decisions for you and give you additional rewards on top of what you actually achieve for it to be fun, or worth doing.

Danikat.8537:

To me it’s basically that after level 80 this game becomes more like a sandbox game where you have a whole range of different activities and you don’t have to do any of them, you can pick and choose what to do.

Pretty much this .. in other MMOs at max level i always just rolled the next char or
maybe did “grey” content solo but i never was very much interestet in running the
same dungeons over and over and else there was not really much left to do.

Here i can do whatever i want and everything still gives me at least a small reward.

Danikat.8537:

Godzzila.3752:

@Illuminati pretty much the way I feel. Nothing to do except for “personal challenges” as in objectives you create for your self such as: Create legendary…

I think this might also be why I struggle to understand the difference between what’s on offer in this game and what people mean when they talk about end game.

I’ve played a lot of games where right from the start there was nothing except objectives you create for yourself.

Like Minecraft. You don’t have to do anything in that game, you don’t need to build a house or make weapons and armor or tame a horse or find a fortress in the Nether or whatever. And if you do there are no special rewards beyond what you’ve done (the house you built, the weapons you made etc.) but people still manage to spend hundreds of hours playing that game and have a lot of fun doing it.

I don’t understand why the game has to make your decisions for you and give you additional rewards on top of what you actually achieve for it to be fun, or worth doing.

Isn’t Minecraft a complete different game+genre than Guild Wars 2?

Godzzila.3752:

Maybe because the WoW system actually works? It keeps people interested and comming back, gives a sense of progression and reward, makes you feel useful in a group and overall just gives you something to do…
It worked for years, it still works, and maybe there is a reason for that…

The WoW system works for you. I left WoW and never looked back, so it didn’t work for me. In fact, I dare say I wouldn’t play WoW if it were free to play with no purchase price because the game didn’t work for me.

No game works. It works for specific people or it doesn’t.

Illuminati.2431:

Danikat.8537:

Godzzila.3752:

@Illuminati pretty much the way I feel. Nothing to do except for “personal challenges” as in objectives you create for your self such as: Create legendary…

I think this might also be why I struggle to understand the difference between what’s on offer in this game and what people mean when they talk about end game.

I’ve played a lot of games where right from the start there was nothing except objectives you create for yourself.

Like Minecraft. You don’t have to do anything in that game, you don’t need to build a house or make weapons and armor or tame a horse or find a fortress in the Nether or whatever. And if you do there are no special rewards beyond what you’ve done (the house you built, the weapons you made etc.) but people still manage to spend hundreds of hours playing that game and have a lot of fun doing it.

I don’t understand why the game has to make your decisions for you and give you additional rewards on top of what you actually achieve for it to be fun, or worth doing.

Isn’t Minecraft a complete different game+genre than Guild Wars 2?

Yes, but it was just an example I thought most people here would be familiar with. I could have used any of a number of games of different genres. The point is games that offer you a number of options and no fixed path of progression are not that uncommon and I can’t understand why it’s so confusing or disappointing for some people.

Romek.4201:

in mmo games characters need PROGRESS – thats most important thing ever
but in gw2 they total ignore this and stop at lvl 80

all other content they have or have addet since release in this game to play after lvl 80 would be called in other games “Filler Content”

and cause someone wrote it^^ – no, story is no content

best in gw2 is the lvling from 1-80 and to equip the character + all traits and after this there is nothing

thats why i have 31 characterslots iwth over 20 lvl 80 chars – playing a characte on lvl 80 in this game is just boring

and to bring some progress in this game they could add:

• more infusions like this + 1 agony infusions with + 1 power, + 1 condi, + 1 critchance … and so on and let player decide how much work they wanna put in (2x+ 1 infusion gives 1x + 2)
• the new back item is something alot people has fun to work for so bring with this new armor or weapon skins and add this to content like Liadri

I tend to agree with this somewhat – I mean progression doesn’t have to be gear only, they do have story progression through the living story, but, when you’ve done that then you got nothing to do really.

In GW1 you had skill hunting, such as capturing elite skills, which imo is something I absolutely loved, and certianly served for progression, through more diversity when it came to builds and what not.

I think thats what they have been trying to do with traits instead, though I personally think it should be tied to skills, and not traits really :/

ZoiN.4280:

Romek.4201:

in mmo games characters need PROGRESS – thats most important thing ever
but in gw2 they total ignore this and stop at lvl 80

all other content they have or have addet since release in this game to play after lvl 80 would be called in other games “Filler Content”

and cause someone wrote it^^ – no, story is no content

best in gw2 is the lvling from 1-80 and to equip the character + all traits and after this there is nothing

thats why i have 31 characterslots iwth over 20 lvl 80 chars – playing a characte on lvl 80 in this game is just boring

and to bring some progress in this game they could add:

• more infusions like this + 1 agony infusions with + 1 power, + 1 condi, + 1 critchance … and so on and let player decide how much work they wanna put in (2x+ 1 infusion gives 1x + 2)
• the new back item is something alot people has fun to work for so bring with this new armor or weapon skins and add this to content like Liadri

I tend to agree with this somewhat – I mean progression doesn’t have to be gear only, they do have story progression through the living story, but, when you’ve done that then you got nothing to do really.

In GW1 you had skill hunting, such as capturing elite skills, which imo is something I absolutely loved, and certianly served for progression, through more diversity when it came to builds and what not.

I think thats what they have been trying to do with traits instead, though I personally think it should be tied to skills, and not traits really :/

They tried to do it with traits, but it was executed in a haphhazard manner that didn’t really help the game in my opinion.

Godzzila.3752:

People play games not because they like looking at stuff but because of the experience-reward balance. If you have a lot of great maps and no reward for that the game becomes boring and pointless. If you have a lot of rewards for a bad expirience you get a really frustrating game. So saying that this game is just seeking the Not Need To Work For Anything expirience, im sorry but that’s bs.

People?
I play because I like looking at stuff, thank you very much. I play to have fun, not grind. I won’t do something over and over if I feel it’s boring. (Dry Top atm, is boring for me, so I won’t play it…)
But that’s a GREAT thing. I don’t like it, and I don’t have to play it to keep up.

Rewards in this game are “yay, I did it”, and that’s also a good thing, it’s very console gaming like. Solo friendly, casual friendly.’ I have little time’ friendly. These are good things.
There aren’t many mmo’s like this.

It may not be something you like, and that’s ok too, but don’t try to change this game into something you want. Go play the game you want. They are out there.
And do not make it sound like your view of this game is the “right”/only view!

Taygus.4571:

Godzzila.3752:

People play games not because they like looking at stuff but because of the experience-reward balance. If you have a lot of great maps and no reward for that the game becomes boring and pointless. If you have a lot of rewards for a bad expirience you get a really frustrating game. So saying that this game is just seeking the Not Need To Work For Anything expirience, im sorry but that’s bs.

People?
I play because I like looking at stuff, thank you very much. I play to have fun, not grind. I won’t do something over and over if I feel it’s boring. (Dry Top atm, is boring for me, so I won’t play it…)
But that’s a GREAT thing. I don’t like it, and I don’t have to play it to keep up.

Rewards in this game are “yay, I did it”, and that’s also a good thing, it’s very console gaming like. Solo friendly, casual friendly.’ I have little time’ friendly. These are good things.
There aren’t many mmo’s like this.

It may not be something you like, and that’s ok too, but don’t try to change this game into something you want. Go play the game you want. They are out there.
And do not make it sound like your view of this game is the “right”/only view!

Want to buy an upvote.

I play games for a lot of reasons, but almost none of those are the reasons espoused by the OP.

Taygus.4571:

Godzzila.3752:

People play games not because they like looking at stuff but because of the experience-reward balance. If you have a lot of great maps and no reward for that the game becomes boring and pointless. If you have a lot of rewards for a bad expirience you get a really frustrating game. So saying that this game is just seeking the Not Need To Work For Anything expirience, im sorry but that’s bs.

People?
I play because I like looking at stuff, thank you very much. I play to have fun, not grind. I won’t do something over and over if I feel it’s boring. (Dry Top atm, is boring for me, so I won’t play it…)
But that’s a GREAT thing. I don’t like it, and I don’t have to play it to keep up.

Rewards in this game are “yay, I did it”, and that’s also a good thing, it’s very console gaming like. Solo friendly, casual friendly.’ I have little time’ friendly. These are good things.
There aren’t many mmo’s like this.

It may not be something you like, and that’s ok too, but don’t try to change this game into something you want. Go play the game you want. They are out there.
And do not make it sound like your view of this game is the “right”/only view!

Ditto. The sole reason I have been so hooked up to Guild Wars 2, and kept returning to it after hiatus here and there to play new game releases, is simply; I enjoy the setting and the art direction. A lot. I return to make, design and play as new characters, to dressdoll ’em up and look at the nice things I can aim to get them, if I feel like it.
Of course I enjoy PvP and doing achivement, dungeon runs and whatnot, but ultimately? I am here because the looks of the game draw me, and the design choices it gives me call me to just keep on making new, entertaining characters.

I think that what players want to see some ways to improve their characters, well in guild wars 2 there it will not be achieved through vertical progression, gw2 decided to “introduce” horizontal progression through giving the players with skills and skins, well with how protective the balance team is we really should not expect to see a lot of new skills introduced in the game any time soon so all we have left are the skins.

Well I consider GW2 to be a MMO RPG and what i think a lot of rpg players expect is character recognition, In fact really precise character recognition by precise I mean players would like the game to recognize their feats and push them toward those feats
some kind of carrot.

Lets design some kind of precognitive carrot:

• Add 3 new blue weapons with their own stats and skins to each weapon category(maybe not underwater weapons) let say that you get these weapons through dungeons, WvW, SPVP, and world bosses.
• These weapons in their description present a list of feats/tasks to accomplish.
• The feats vary in difficulty and affect different areas of the game(PVP, PVE, WvW), they should be really targeted for example a “hard” feat would require the player to finish lv 42 fractals without dying once, while an “easy” would require the player to cook 761 fries.(to validate the feats the players must have the weapon equipped through the whole duration)
• The weapons have a tier system each tier unlock a new rarity and a new appearance for the weapons.

Well a lot can be tweaked but what is the most important is to introduce a lot of those skins at the same time to give the player choice and options and (at least try) to fit all tastes. Also one of the most important things in progression is that the players should not see the brick wall, as soon as they finish improving their character in one way they need to see other ways in which they can keep improving their toons.

As others have said, Fractals, WvW and SPvP offer “endgame” on an on-going basis.

Other games offer new zones, classes, races, dungeons as well as improvements to their own version of PvP.

ANet apparently chose to adhere to a direction that treats GW2 more as a continued CMO with living story updates than taking the more “traditional” MMO approach and investing in further development into dungeons and WvW.

Not going to speculate on why or make assumptions that more development in those areas is forthcoming when we’ve had a dev basically say they’ll tell us about new developments when they have something they can talk about. (see: WvW board).

What that means is, take it or leave it, what you see is what you get.

@OP: trust me, I know how you feel. The new LS took less than 3 hours for the whole thing, the writing was better than I expected and less than I’d hoped. And I haven’t bothered going back for achievements.

-Currently playing Wildstar for PvE and GW2 for WvW.

Pretty sure the end game is every 2 weeks you can spend all your gold or $10 to get the newest cash grab crap that should be obtainable with in game accomplishments. Otherwise it’s pretty much tab press 1 and wait 10 seconds for mobs to die. Fun, fun fun!

Danikat.8537:

I never really understood the whole “end game” concept.

End game is the part of the game that gets the least attention during development, and also the part of the game many players race to get to, spending as little time as possible going through the parts of the game that get the most work pre-launch.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Danikat.8537:

I never really understood the whole “end game” concept.

End game is the part of the game that gets the least attention during development, and also the part of the game many players race to get to, spending as little time as possible going through the parts of the game that get the most work pre-launch.

MMO players have become trained to level up ASAP to get to the “endgame” and are confused when a game is all about the journey and not the final destination. This is what generates a lot of the dislike about this game as voiced on the forums (another source are disgruntled GW PvP players). Because the tropes that they’ve been trained to accept aren’t here, the triad, mounts, vertical progression, structured raids, etc. It’s like being raised on FPS and then playing a stealth FPS. It’s only natural to be confused.

Behellagh.1468:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Danikat.8537:

I never really understood the whole “end game” concept.

End game is the part of the game that gets the least attention during development, and also the part of the game many players race to get to, spending as little time as possible going through the parts of the game that get the most work pre-launch.

MMO players have become trained to level up ASAP to get to the “endgame” and are confused when a game is all about the journey and not the final destination. This is what generates a lot of the dislike about this game as voiced on the forums (another source are disgruntled GW PvP players). Because the tropes that they’ve been trained to accept aren’t here, the triad, mounts, vertical progression, structured raids, etc. It’s like being raised on FPS and then playing a stealth FPS. It’s only natural to be confused.

About the journey… I could agree with you if it didn’t take you around 3 maybe 4 days to reach leval cap from level 1. The first time you ever play this game it can take a few weeks but after that you can easily hit cap in a weekend or so… So, where is this journey? And it’s not like you would be rushing or anything is just that you already know what happned and because this game was made to be so easy to level that it raises the question: “Why?”

Only games that know that their content is focused on late game do this kind of stuff, for example: WoW gives you already level 80 chars, makes you level twice as fast when playing with friends… But that’s because they know that their content is late game. So why does it make that this game is so flipping easy to level just so that after a couple of days you are stuck with nothing to do?
And it’s not like it has any replay value, and aNet does know that (they keep giving insta level 20 for a reason) the story is always the same and most of the decisions are just to simulate choice. They give you no diffrence in the plot what so ever, just create the illusion of choice (other than that time you pick what order to follow, every decision is pretty much like this).
Don’t get me wrong the story is pretty interesting (having in count what MMO’s story usually is), the first time i did it with my warrior was amazing! But after having to do it all over again for my thief and then later to my guadian… It kinda lost it’s charm…
A game that rushes you to level 80 like this should have something up its sleeve to hit you in the face once you hit lvl cap, instead it just says: “I hope you had all the fun reaching level 80, now go ahead and collect skins.”

For me the substitute for end game is WvW.
Unfortunately it’s by far the least updated game mode in GW2.

Nick.6972:

For me the substitute for end game is WvW.
Unfortunately it’s by far the least updated game mode in GW2.

Because revamping the rewards system several times, moving the JP to it’s own map and adding a “recreational” waiting area you can farm isn’t updating it enough.

Behellagh.1468:

Nick.6972:

For me the substitute for end game is WvW.
Unfortunately it’s by far the least updated game mode in GW2.

Because revamping the rewards system several times, moving the JP to it’s own map and adding a “recreational” waiting area you can farm isn’t updating it enough.

Yes ofc it is enough! No need to balance classes or anything like that, just do some random changes and nobody won’t notice that minor problem.

I would say most of the changes done (that aren’t bug fixes) to traits and skills for each profession have been attempts to balance not for PvE but WvW since in PvP skills and traits are different from PvE already.

Behellagh.1468:

Nick.6972:

For me the substitute for end game is WvW.
Unfortunately it’s by far the least updated game mode in GW2.

Because revamping the rewards system several times, moving the JP to it’s own map and adding a “recreational” waiting area you can farm isn’t updating it enough.

Nice joke. You’re clearly not a WvW player. No one cares about JP. No one cares about pveEOTM, rewards have been underwhelming since the day one even with the so called “revamps”. What WvW players do care about – poor PPT sysyem – hasn’t been addressed for two years now.

laokoko.7403:

well you know what they said about GW2. There is no end game.

Endgame is something like 50 lvl Fractals. You need endgame gear to play this endgame content.

Godzzila.3752:

Behellagh.1468:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Danikat.8537:

I never really understood the whole “end game” concept.

End game is the part of the game that gets the least attention during development, and also the part of the game many players race to get to, spending as little time as possible going through the parts of the game that get the most work pre-launch.

MMO players have become trained to level up ASAP to get to the “endgame” and are confused when a game is all about the journey and not the final destination. This is what generates a lot of the dislike about this game as voiced on the forums (another source are disgruntled GW PvP players). Because the tropes that they’ve been trained to accept aren’t here, the triad, mounts, vertical progression, structured raids, etc. It’s like being raised on FPS and then playing a stealth FPS. It’s only natural to be confused.

About the journey… I could agree with you if it didn’t take you around 3 maybe 4 days to reach leval cap from level 1. The first time you ever play this game it can take a few weeks but after that you can easily hit cap in a weekend or so… So, where is this journey? And it’s not like you would be rushing or anything is just that you already know what happned and because this game was made to be so easy to level that it raises the question: “Why?”

Only games that know that their content is focused on late game do this kind of stuff, for example: WoW gives you already level 80 chars, makes you level twice as fast when playing with friends… But that’s because they know that their content is late game. So why does it make that this game is so flipping easy to level just so that after a couple of days you are stuck with nothing to do?
And it’s not like it has any replay value, and aNet does know that (they keep giving insta level 20 for a reason) the story is always the same and most of the decisions are just to simulate choice. They give you no diffrence in the plot what so ever, just create the illusion of choice (other than that time you pick what order to follow, every decision is pretty much like this).
Don’t get me wrong the story is pretty interesting (having in count what MMO’s story usually is), the first time i did it with my warrior was amazing! But after having to do it all over again for my thief and then later to my guadian… It kinda lost it’s charm…
A game that rushes you to level 80 like this should have something up its sleeve to hit you in the face once you hit lvl cap, instead it just says: “I hope you had all the fun reaching level 80, now go ahead and collect skins.”

The way I look at it levelling is just a way of giving you access to your skills, traits etc. gradually so you can learn them instead of being overwhelmed. It has very little to do with what type of content you can or should play.

When I got to level 80 one of the first things I did was map Diessa Plateau. Just because the Living Story took me there and I realised I hadn’t seen much of Ascalon and I felt like looking around. It would never have occurred to me to think that because I’d reached level 80 I was done with everything that was accessible before then and I should be looking for something new and different to do. In fact I felt completely the opposite – it was exciting to think that I could now go anywhere and do anything without having to worry about if I’m the right level for it or not.

I find it hard to believe many other people think like that either. I see level 80’s in lower level PvE zones all the time and I know a lot of people do dungeons after reaching level 80 (in fact I’ve seen some people say you shouldn’t do them before then even if you can).

A game where once you reach the level cap you’re supposed to drop everything you were doing and focus on a few specific activities sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Danikat.8537:

The way I look at it levelling is just a way of giving you access to your skills, traits etc. gradually so you can learn them instead of being overwhelmed. It has very little to do with what type of content you can or should play.

When I got to level 80 one of the first things I did was map Diessa Plateau. Just because the Living Story took me there and I realised I hadn’t seen much of Ascalon and I felt like looking around. It would never have occurred to me to think that because I’d reached level 80 I was done with everything that was accessible before then and I should be looking for something new and different to do. In fact I felt completely the opposite – it was exciting to think that I could now go anywhere and do anything without having to worry about if I’m the right level for it or not.

I find it hard to believe many other people think like that either. I see level 80’s in lower level PvE zones all the time and I know a lot of people do dungeons after reaching level 80 (in fact I’ve seen some people say you shouldn’t do them before then even if you can).

A game where once you reach the level cap you’re supposed to drop everything you were doing and focus on a few specific activities sounds like a terrible idea to me.

If you really wanna look at a game about the Journey you should look at something like, let’s say: Skyrim. Since minute 1 you have lots of decisions, lots of paths to make. In that game you make your own story, here you have NOTHING even close like that. You have a pretty linear story with little to no decisions or anything being made. You can’t decide where to go next or anything like that, it’s always the same order of events for everyone, your “journey” is exacly the same as everyone else’s journey. And why would there be a way to introduce you to the skills and stuff progressivly if then you have nothing to use them with? The skills you use are 90% of the time completly irelevant, the only skill you need is the number 1, the TAB an occasionaly the heal.

Godzzila.3752:

Danikat.8537:

The way I look at it levelling is just a way of giving you access to your skills, traits etc. gradually so you can learn them instead of being overwhelmed. It has very little to do with what type of content you can or should play.

When I got to level 80 one of the first things I did was map Diessa Plateau. Just because the Living Story took me there and I realised I hadn’t seen much of Ascalon and I felt like looking around. It would never have occurred to me to think that because I’d reached level 80 I was done with everything that was accessible before then and I should be looking for something new and different to do. In fact I felt completely the opposite – it was exciting to think that I could now go anywhere and do anything without having to worry about if I’m the right level for it or not.

I find it hard to believe many other people think like that either. I see level 80’s in lower level PvE zones all the time and I know a lot of people do dungeons after reaching level 80 (in fact I’ve seen some people say you shouldn’t do them before then even if you can).

A game where once you reach the level cap you’re supposed to drop everything you were doing and focus on a few specific activities sounds like a terrible idea to me.

If you really wanna look at a game about the Journey you should look at something like, let’s say: Skyrim. Since minute 1 you have lots of decisions, lots of paths to make. In that game you make your own story, here you have NOTHING even close like that. You have a pretty linear story with little to no decisions or anything being made. You can’t decide where to go next or anything like that, it’s always the same order of events for everyone, your “journey” is exacly the same as everyone else’s journey. And why would there be a way to introduce you to the skills and stuff progressivly if then you have nothing to use them with? The skills you use are 90% of the time completly irelevant, the only skill you need is the number 1, the TAB an occasionaly the heal.

Skyrim is a single player game. You can’t have that many paths in an MMO because you can’t make that many stories for that many people.

Anyway the Skyrim stories really aren’t all that flexible. They give the illusion of flexibility. But in Skyrim you are THE hero. There’s no way anyone can or should compare a single player game an MMO. They’re different animals.

Nor should you compare a theme park MMO with a sandbox one.

Guild Wars 2 is the only themepark MMO with this kind of flexibilty. But no MMO will ever have the flexibility of a single player game.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Danikat.8537:

The way I look at it levelling is just a way of giving you access to your skills, traits etc. gradually so you can learn them instead of being overwhelmed. It has very little to do with what type of content you can or should play.

When I got to level 80 one of the first things I did was map Diessa Plateau. Just because the Living Story took me there and I realised I hadn’t seen much of Ascalon and I felt like looking around. It would never have occurred to me to think that because I’d reached level 80 I was done with everything that was accessible before then and I should be looking for something new and different to do. In fact I felt completely the opposite – it was exciting to think that I could now go anywhere and do anything without having to worry about if I’m the right level for it or not.

I find it hard to believe many other people think like that either. I see level 80’s in lower level PvE zones all the time and I know a lot of people do dungeons after reaching level 80 (in fact I’ve seen some people say you shouldn’t do them before then even if you can).

A game where once you reach the level cap you’re supposed to drop everything you were doing and focus on a few specific activities sounds like a terrible idea to me.

If you really wanna look at a game about the Journey you should look at something like, let’s say: Skyrim. Since minute 1 you have lots of decisions, lots of paths to make. In that game you make your own story, here you have NOTHING even close like that. You have a pretty linear story with little to no decisions or anything being made. You can’t decide where to go next or anything like that, it’s always the same order of events for everyone, your “journey” is exacly the same as everyone else’s journey. And why would there be a way to introduce you to the skills and stuff progressivly if then you have nothing to use them with? The skills you use are 90% of the time completly irelevant, the only skill you need is the number 1, the TAB an occasionaly the heal.

Skyrim is a single player game. You can’t have that many paths in an MMO because you can’t make that many stories for that many people.

Anyway the Skyrim stories really aren’t all that flexible. They give the illusion of flexibility. But in Skyrim you are THE hero. There’s no way anyone can or should compare a single player game an MMO. They’re different animals.

Nor should you compare a theme park MMO with a sandbox one.

Guild Wars 2 is the only themepark MMO with this kind of flexibilty. But no MMO will ever have the flexibility of a single player game.

Exactly! If they can’t do something like that, why would they try to do something like that?

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Danikat.8537:

The way I look at it levelling is just a way of giving you access to your skills, traits etc. gradually so you can learn them instead of being overwhelmed. It has very little to do with what type of content you can or should play.

When I got to level 80 one of the first things I did was map Diessa Plateau. Just because the Living Story took me there and I realised I hadn’t seen much of Ascalon and I felt like looking around. It would never have occurred to me to think that because I’d reached level 80 I was done with everything that was accessible before then and I should be looking for something new and different to do. In fact I felt completely the opposite – it was exciting to think that I could now go anywhere and do anything without having to worry about if I’m the right level for it or not.

I find it hard to believe many other people think like that either. I see level 80’s in lower level PvE zones all the time and I know a lot of people do dungeons after reaching level 80 (in fact I’ve seen some people say you shouldn’t do them before then even if you can).

A game where once you reach the level cap you’re supposed to drop everything you were doing and focus on a few specific activities sounds like a terrible idea to me.

If you really wanna look at a game about the Journey you should look at something like, let’s say: Skyrim. Since minute 1 you have lots of decisions, lots of paths to make. In that game you make your own story, here you have NOTHING even close like that. You have a pretty linear story with little to no decisions or anything being made. You can’t decide where to go next or anything like that, it’s always the same order of events for everyone, your “journey” is exacly the same as everyone else’s journey. And why would there be a way to introduce you to the skills and stuff progressivly if then you have nothing to use them with? The skills you use are 90% of the time completly irelevant, the only skill you need is the number 1, the TAB an occasionaly the heal.

Skyrim is a single player game. You can’t have that many paths in an MMO because you can’t make that many stories for that many people.

Anyway the Skyrim stories really aren’t all that flexible. They give the illusion of flexibility. But in Skyrim you are THE hero. There’s no way anyone can or should compare a single player game an MMO. They’re different animals.

Nor should you compare a theme park MMO with a sandbox one.

Guild Wars 2 is the only themepark MMO with this kind of flexibilty. But no MMO will ever have the flexibility of a single player game.

Exactly! If they can’t do something like that, why would they try to do something like that?

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

Wink emotes. The ultimate deal-seal.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

You’ve got to be joking. You don’t need social features to play with people. Want to hear a social feature? Mumble. That’s a social feature.

We do our guild missions together, run dungeons together, clear zones together. I can’t do that in Skyrim.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand this.

So… when exactly does “Start Having End-Game Features” start overidding “Being Able to Play With Friends and/or Guild”?

It’s changing the game, that’s what it has to do with it. You asked the question, I answered. This is how the conversation went.

I play this game and like it, without a traditional end game. Traditional end games tend to make the community more competive rather than cooperative. I wanted a cooperative non-competitive PvE experience to enjoy with friends. This game offers that.

Traditional end games creates haves and have nots. That’s not what the devs are trying to do here. You suggest that many of the things I like would be better in single player games and you’re right about that. But you’re leaving out the social aspect.

People have come on these forums asking for things like dueling, dps meters, gear check, all the things that come with the end game you want. And every time someone posts for stuff like this, there’s a bunch of people who shout it down. Not one or two. A bunch of people. Why?

Because those things ruin the type of game we want to play. Adding the types of things you’re asking for will inevitably lead to the kind of game I don’t want to play.

And because there are dozens of games made for you and only one game (so far) made for us, it would be nice if it remained a game for us.

If by a bunch of people you mean something 5. And as far as Im noticing there are equally the amount of people supporting this idea. And by the way: At no point in time does having end-game features change at all the game, other than expand its longetivity and giving something to do when waiting for content.

Godzzila.3752:

Vayne.8563:

Because some of us want to play a multiplayer game with that kind of sensibility and that was lacking in MMO space. That’s why. That’s exactly why.

Are you saying someone who enjoys that KIND of experience can’t also be social and want to play with other people? I bet there are a lot more of us out here than you think their are.

I’m a social guy. I like being in my guild. I like playing with friends. And I like not having to sit there and plan a raid for an hour before I jump in and attempt to run it so I might or might not get gear I need to go to the next raid. I don’t want an instanced game. I want to play in the open world.

I’m happy to trade Skyrim’s solitude for a social MMO that centers around stuff I enjoy.

There are dozens of MMOs for people who like other stuff. Can’t we just have one?

Nope, that makes no sense. This game as no “Social Features”. You have chat and that’s it. You can Play with your friends and like your guild in a game that’s well made

If you in an actual , serious guild, than I doubt ppl chat. Ventrilo / TS is always the go to for communication… chatting with guildies/friends is pointless, in any MMO.

However, there’s really no content in this game that needs that much coordination lol. Yea sure maybe teq/wurm if you are in TTx but for the avg joe, you just go to the zone and follow the zerg/commander lol, no need to even be in a group.
Same thing in WvW (unless you are wanting to roam with guildies)
Really competitive team PvP / WvW roaming group is the only places in this game where being coordinated as a team matters…. everything else is just so easy, it doesn’t matter.
I hop on teq during reset and just join the zerg at the feet and win, thats it lol. Thats supposed to be one of the toughest open world raid? Anet can do better than this…But for some odd reason, they keep adding a small chapter in the book of Living Story that really has yet to add anything remotely challenging outside trying to get Tier 5..
They need real group content that takes a coordinated effort. Dungs / Fracs ain’kitten.any avg joe can do them.
If you don’t want to add gear progression, thats totally fine, but at least SOME KIND of progression, skill/challenge based