Guild Wars 2

EDIT: Whenever I say botting, also think of it as “exploit”
So my guildmates and I were having a riveting discussion, and these 3 instances came up with everyone having different views, but I’d kind of like to know if there is an official ruling on it:

1. Leaving auto attack on, and ALT+Tab and do something else (browse FB, or whatever)
2. Leaving auto attack on, and read a book (while still at the computer, with GW2 running)
3. Leaving auto attack on, GW2 up, and going to shower, or do some other thing of the sort.

Is it botting? From what I know, is that botting requires a third party software to play for you, but in this instance you are just using the game mechanics.

At the end of the day my curiousity was not satisfied, so I had to ask.

Note: I admit I am guilty of number 2 lol, though I would still type in guild chat. So I was technically still there.

You are asking if a base function of the game is botting? Are you serious?

Ralanost.8913:

You are asking if a base function of the game is botting? Are you serious?

Yes because, while doing number 2, I have had people accuse me of botting and reporting me. Even though I was still at my comp, still using guild chat (just not moving or using anything other than AA).

They can accuse all they want. Autoattacking is what it is. Botting is much more than just standing in one place swinging your weapon.

Using built-in function isn’t botting. Botting is using 3rd party programs automatizing your gameplay.

Ralanost.8913:

They can accuse all they want. Autoattacking is what it is. Botting is much more than just standing in one place swinging your weapon.

Yes, I see what you’re saying and I completely agree… but does Anet see it that way. Excuse my paranoia, but I don’t want to get banned for someone’s false reporting.

If you added a macro to automatically press tab and auto attack, then that would be botting. Auto attacking a select target by itself is not botting. However, if you put a skill that doesn’t require a target on auto cast or you leave a pet out with the intention of farming something while AFK, that has been considered botting in the past.

Healix.5819:

However, if you put a skill that doesn’t require a target on auto cast or you leave a pet out with the intention of farming something while AFK, that has been considered botting in the past.

Essentiall that… auto attack using a skill that doesn’t require targetting.

segman.3560:

Using built-in function isn’t botting. Botting is using 3rd party programs automatizing your gameplay.

So… if I were to say, load up my ranger, go walk into SW at a tower with my pet on the “attack anything” stance. Walk away from the game, come back half an hour later and open my reward chests for having “contributed” to the event… that’s fine? Hmm, always thought that was frowned upon. I mean I’m just using built in game functionality right?

Jerus.4350:

So… if I were to say, load up my ranger, go walk into SW at a tower with my pet on the “attack anything” stance. Walk away from the game, come back half an hour later and open my reward chests for having “contributed” to the event… that’s fine? Hmm, always thought that was frowned upon. I mean I’m just using built in game functionality right?

Frowned upon =/= illegal.

It would only be botting if it was automated somehow. All your scenarios are more leeching then an exploit or botting.

Well there is the issue of rangers leaving the pet on aggressive and having this kill things, an example often sighted as ‘botting’ while still being in the basic design of the game.

Jerus.4350:

segman.3560:

Using built-in function isn’t botting. Botting is using 3rd party programs automatizing your gameplay.

So… if I were to say, load up my ranger, go walk into SW at a tower with my pet on the “attack anything” stance. Walk away from the game, come back half an hour later and open my reward chests for having “contributed” to the event… that’s fine? Hmm, always thought that was frowned upon. I mean I’m just using built in game functionality right?

Is it botting or exploiting, no it is not. The misuse of these terms is getting out of hand, really. For your scenario, it should not work. The events scaling system, as far as I understand it, is designed to discern between active and inactive players. You and your pet wouldn’t draw aggro if idle for some time. Which means you wouldn’t get a reward then. If you drew aggro, from any of the SW mobs, you’d certainly find a dead character when you returned to the game. Unless you were saved by active players. Which is then leeching and well, you shouldn’t do that at all. Have you not seen the many complaint threads of AFK in the SW? If you want to try AFK’ing, then please do try some Bloodstone Pot Pie while doing it.

Gaile Gray has been explicit about this before: if you can walk away from the keyboard and get caught, they will ban your account.

It doesn’t matter what we, the players call this. ANet considers it a breach of the Terms of Service.

DeWolfe.2174:

Is it botting or exploiting, no it is not. The misuse of these terms is getting out of hand, really. For your scenario, it should not work. The events scaling system, as far as I understand it, is designed to discern between active and inactive players. You and your pet wouldn’t draw aggro if idle for some time. Which means you wouldn’t get a reward then. If you drew aggro, from any of the SW mobs, you’d certainly find a dead character when you returned to the game. Unless you were saved by active players. Which is then leeching and well, you shouldn’t do that at all. Have you not seen the many complaint threads of AFK in the SW?

Not entirely sure on that as I have parked myself in fairly isolated corner in SW or DT and went away from keyboard briefly (i.e answer door for delivery, get a drink, or use the bathroom) and returned to have event credit and loot, but that more might be people attempting to pull creatures onto me during a event though.

Bran.7425:

DeWolfe.2174:

Is it botting or exploiting, no it is not. The misuse of these terms is getting out of hand, really. For your scenario, it should not work. The events scaling system, as far as I understand it, is designed to discern between active and inactive players. You and your pet wouldn’t draw aggro if idle for some time. Which means you wouldn’t get a reward then. If you drew aggro, from any of the SW mobs, you’d certainly find a dead character when you returned to the game. Unless you were saved by active players. Which is then leeching and well, you shouldn’t do that at all. Have you not seen the many complaint threads of AFK in the SW?

Not entirely sure on that as I have parked myself in fairly isolated corner in SW or DT and went away from keyboard briefly (i.e answer door for delivery, get a drink, or use the bathroom) and returned to have event credit and loot, but that more might be people attempting to pull creatures onto me during a event though.

Mordrem leechers’ gropy tentacles have a very long reach.

Bran.7425:

DeWolfe.2174:

Is it botting or exploiting, no it is not. The misuse of these terms is getting out of hand, really. For your scenario, it should not work. The events scaling system, as far as I understand it, is designed to discern between active and inactive players. You and your pet wouldn’t draw aggro if idle for some time. Which means you wouldn’t get a reward then. If you drew aggro, from any of the SW mobs, you’d certainly find a dead character when you returned to the game. Unless you were saved by active players. Which is then leeching and well, you shouldn’t do that at all. Have you not seen the many complaint threads of AFK in the SW?

Not entirely sure on that as I have parked myself in fairly isolated corner in SW or DT and went away from keyboard briefly (i.e answer door for delivery, get a drink, or use the bathroom) and returned to have event credit and loot, but that more might be people attempting to pull creatures onto me during a event though.

Attending to RL is always fine. The issue is when people do this repeatedly for extended periods of time.

As a player, I can’t tell if you are AFK momentarily or if this is a pattern. But ANet can, by investing the log. So, I might report someone (for botting) who seems to be sitting in place throughout the vine event, especially if it’s a ranger. I’ll let ANet decide if it’s worth investigating or not. (I usually don’t though: I know a lot of players with kids, who have to leave suddenly and most of them don’t think to alt-f4 first.)

DeWolfe.2174:

Jerus.4350:

segman.3560:

Using built-in function isn’t botting. Botting is using 3rd party programs automatizing your gameplay.

So… if I were to say, load up my ranger, go walk into SW at a tower with my pet on the “attack anything” stance. Walk away from the game, come back half an hour later and open my reward chests for having “contributed” to the event… that’s fine? Hmm, always thought that was frowned upon. I mean I’m just using built in game functionality right?

Is it botting or exploiting, no it is not. The misuse of these terms is getting out of hand, really. For your scenario, it should not work. The events scaling system, as far as I understand it, is designed to discern between active and inactive players. You and your pet wouldn’t draw aggro if idle for some time. Which means you wouldn’t get a reward then. If you drew aggro, from any of the SW mobs, you’d certainly find a dead character when you returned to the game. Unless you were saved by active players. Which is then leeching and well, you shouldn’t do that at all. Have you not seen the many complaint threads of AFK in the SW? If you want to try AFK’ing, then please do try some Bloodstone Pot Pie while doing it.

Aye, I fully understand the issue, just pointing out that you can use in game tools to still leach credit, noticed it first when I literally fell asleep in a tower in SW and woke up to a whole slew of chests to open in the morning… instantly sent a PM about it, but doesn’t seem like they’ve done anything to change it , not support it at all, quite the opposite, my point was that just because you aren’t using any 3rd party programs doesn’t mean you can’t set yourelf up for free loot, and in doing so, you’re “botting” as I believe they intend the term to be interpreted.

Its not botting because another program isn’t playing your character, you still are, whether at the controls or not.

Its not an exploit because the game was design to change what your auto is. Some people set it to shout, or to and aoe heal…

What it is is LEECHING. People doing this make it harder for others playing by scaling events and reaping rewards with providing no effort. To me, leechers are just one step above botters, where they aren’t using third party, but abusing a useful in game mechanic to earn rewards they don’t deserve.

Botting is usage of a third party program or macros to perform tasks for you.

Exploiting is using methods (already in the game) in a way that benefits you in a way that was not intended by the game developers.

Example:
Leaving your character parked outside of a fort in the Silverwastes with a ranger pet, or a trait, or other mechanic that will earn you rewards while you are completely afk is not working as intended and is therefore an exploit.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Gaile Gray has been explicit about this before: if you can walk away from the keyboard and get caught, they will ban your account.

It doesn’t matter what we, the players call this. ANet considers it a breach of the Terms of Service.

Could you show me where she has said that? I haven’t seen it anywhere in Terms…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Botting is usage of a third party program or macros to perform tasks for you.

Exploiting is using methods (already in the game) in a way that benefits you in a way that was not intended by the game developers.

Example:
Leaving your character parked outside of a fort in the Silverwastes with a ranger pet, or a trait, or other mechanic that will earn you rewards while you are completely afk is not working as intended and is therefore an exploit.

i agree same.

If it makes you feel better, people have been banned before for simply buying stuff off the vendor.

Lifestealer.4910:

If it makes you feel better, people have been banned before for simply buying stuff off the vendor.

That was abusing a bug, that would have caused market instability.

Lazaar.9123:

Lifestealer.4910:

If it makes you feel better, people have been banned before for simply buying stuff off the vendor.

That was abusing a bug, that would have caused market instability.

Yes because buying stuff with karma and selling it to vendor for a couple of silver is soo abusing bug and going to cause market instability.

Lifestealer.4910:

Lazaar.9123:

Lifestealer.4910:

If it makes you feel better, people have been banned before for simply buying stuff off the vendor.

That was abusing a bug, that would have caused market instability.

Yes because buying stuff with karma and selling it to vendor for a couple of silver is soo abusing bug and going to cause market instability.

That cost much less than other karma items, people knew what they were doing.

Lazaar.9123:

Lifestealer.4910:

Lazaar.9123:

Lifestealer.4910:

If it makes you feel better, people have been banned before for simply buying stuff off the vendor.

That was abusing a bug, that would have caused market instability.

Yes because buying stuff with karma and selling it to vendor for a couple of silver is soo abusing bug and going to cause market instability.

That cost much less than other karma items, people knew what they were doing.

If you actually thought about how stupid it sounds to ban people simply because they were being smart with their money by buying the stuff off a vendor that is cheap and was implemented by a dev then you would know how stupid it is to be defending the bans for such a thing.

Also to expect a player to know something that is priced a kitteneaper to be a bug is also laughable.

EDIT: why is a " kitten E A P E R" censored?

Engineer went through a similar phase with turrets. They actually set turrets to automatically explode at 5mins because people were using them to afk farm. If I remember correctly they said that it was a grey area at the time. I don’t know if they’ve updated the policy or not.

I’m hoping I can garner some attention from some forum mods, but tomorrow is Sunday, and as we all know the forums explode on Sundays when there is no mod… hopefully they’ll see this

Here is one thread where a guy would set a ranger pet on attack and go afk for extended periods, and was banned.

A comment about using turrets and going afk
CC Dalmarus Source
Community Coordinator
Anything that enables a person to play the game without actually playing the game is a problem, such as using third party programs to automate game play.
Going AFK with turrets running isn’t technically an exploit, but players should be playing the game in good faith.

Post where someone was afk farming and got a 3 day suspension.

And this comment by Gaile Gray
Gaile Gray: Source
ArenaNet Forum Communications Team Lead
We do not consider “not answering a whisper” as an indictment. Please do not worry about this; as long as you legitimately are playing, or are not gaining undeserved rewards when not playing, you’re just fine.

Hrmm… well what if I wasn’t farming anything, but just wanted to get the torch master achievements by killing ambients…

Same thing applies.AP will garner rewards, thus it’s the same.

If you need to try and figure out loopholes it’s most likely not ok.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Hrmm… well what if I wasn’t farming anything, but just wanted to get the torch master achievements by killing ambients…

Are you actively playing? Are you getting rewards while afk? That’s the things they look at. People who engage in unattended extended play are the ones that get in trouble. Farming ambients is playing if you are actively at the controls and moving your character around.

Essence Snow.3194:

Same thing applies.AP will garner rewards, thus it’s the same.

If you need to try and figure out loopholes it’s most likely not ok.

I’m not trying to figure out loopholes, but honestly, I don’t see how it could be an exploit, bot, or anything like that, in any shape or form. I guess I’ll just do it the painful way then

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Essence Snow.3194:

Same thing applies.AP will garner rewards, thus it’s the same.

If you need to try and figure out loopholes it’s most likely not ok.

I’m not trying to figure out loopholes, but honestly, I don’t see how it could be an exploit, bot, or anything like that, in any shape or form. I guess I’ll just do it the painful way then

It is not an exploit or a loophole. There is no rules against farming ambients for the achieve. As long as you are personally doing it, it’s fine with ANet.

Astral Projections.7320:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Essence Snow.3194:

Same thing applies.AP will garner rewards, thus it’s the same.

If you need to try and figure out loopholes it’s most likely not ok.

I’m not trying to figure out loopholes, but honestly, I don’t see how it could be an exploit, bot, or anything like that, in any shape or form. I guess I’ll just do it the painful way then

It is not an exploit or a loophole. There is no rules against farming ambients for the achieve. As long as you are personally doing it, it’s fine with ANet.

But from what I’ve read of the terms, setting AA and Alt+Tabbing, is not “wrong” so to speak. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not deadset that I won’t get banned if I do, because I won’t do it, but I’m just saying, logically speaking it doesn’t make sense that it is, especially since I haven’t seen it explicitly in their Terms.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Astral Projections.7320:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Essence Snow.3194:

Same thing applies.AP will garner rewards, thus it’s the same.

If you need to try and figure out loopholes it’s most likely not ok.

I’m not trying to figure out loopholes, but honestly, I don’t see how it could be an exploit, bot, or anything like that, in any shape or form. I guess I’ll just do it the painful way then

It is not an exploit or a loophole. There is no rules against farming ambients for the achieve. As long as you are personally doing it, it’s fine with ANet.

But from what I’ve read of the terms, setting AA and Alt+Tabbing, is not “wrong” so to speak. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not deadset that I won’t get banned if I do, because I won’t do it, but I’m just saying, logically speaking it doesn’t make sense that it is, especially since I haven’t seen it explicitly in their Terms.

If you don’t feel comfortable doing it, then don’t. However their rules apply to people who get rewards without actively being on and controlling their character and who circumvent the kick feature for being afk for extended periods. If you recall they used to have a daily for killing ambients. I used to work on weapon kills when they had that daily.

And imo, farming ambients is so boring it would fall under doing it “the painful way” ^^

Astral Projections.7320:

And imo, farming ambients is so boring it would fall under doing it “the painful way” ^^

That’s what I was referring. To getting torch, warhorn, focus and shield without killing ambients is even worse though.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Astral Projections.7320:

And imo, farming ambients is so boring it would fall under doing it “the painful way” ^^

That’s what I was referring. To getting torch, warhorn, focus and shield without killing ambients is even worse though.

Those achieves are really hard and imo if anyone got them without ambient killing then they are in a distinct minority. My guess is most people who are trying for those do the occasional bout of ambient kills now and then, if not the majority of the kills

this is a problem…. i have seen people farming in queensdale spot for literally 10+ hours straight when they are not even at their keyboards…. its cheating imo if your not actively engaged in the game. ( of course you can go to the bathroom etc.)

So I’m curious what the official definition of “actively” playing the game is.
I understand that it’s bad to afk farm mobs or events – so is it still considered against the ToS when I’m staring at the monitor for the whole time but not doing anything else?

But what’s the case with farming ambient creatures? Does it make a difference if I’m watching the monitor or, whatever, read a book? If it does, how can Anet check what I’m doing? Does it make a difference if I’m always repeatedly pressing one key while reading a book or something?

I fully understand that this is an issue, but in my opinion it should be clearly stated in the ToS because its a very wishy-washy grey-zone-like field where nobody seems to be really sure or confident about. I won’t even think about getting my 15k APs account banned because of doing some brain-afk AAs

You won’t get banned for afk and farming at the sametime as long as you are not running a bot program.

Lifestealer.4910:

You won’t get banned for afk and farming at the sametime as long as you are not running a bot program.

You read through the thread? Many people saying the opposite (even with examples, threads from banned players, and dev comments)

Thanathos.2063:

Lifestealer.4910:

You won’t get banned for afk and farming at the sametime as long as you are not running a bot program.

You read through the thread? Many people saying the opposite (even with examples, threads from banned players, and dev comments)

I am pretty sure devs said it wasn’t bannable unless I missed the comment somewhere.

Lifestealer.4910:

Thanathos.2063:

Lifestealer.4910:

You won’t get banned for afk and farming at the sametime as long as you are not running a bot program.

You read through the thread? Many people saying the opposite (even with examples, threads from banned players, and dev comments)

I am pretty sure devs said it wasn’t bannable unless I missed the comment somewhere.

Essentially, if they suspect you are botting, then you are. According to them that is.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Gaile Gray has been explicit about this before: if you can walk away from the keyboard and get caught, they will ban your account.

It doesn’t matter what we, the players call this. ANet considers it a breach of the Terms of Service.

Could you show me where she has said that? I haven’t seen it anywhere in Terms…

Some of ANet’s official responses were posts here (in the forums) that have since been removed, so I hope you’ll be ok with posts that quoted the original.

For example, this post quotes this policy clarification , which includes a list of questions you should ask when determining whether something is ok or not. One of the questions is:

Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?

Similarly, GW2 Guru has a copy of the original text.

Some will be compelled to say, “buh buh, if I’m alt-tabbed, I’m still at the computer” and “buh, buh, buh, if I’m reading a book, I’m still at the computer”. And they are welcome to take that pedantic approach to the English language. I don’t think it will get them very far.

Put another way, I don’t think that the “terms of service” could reasonably be explicit about all of the likely conceivable player actions (never mind some unlikely ones). I neither expect the ToS is going to spell out predictable reactions by ANet staff.

Or in less theoretical terms, I don’t want to be in a situation in which I have to be arguing with ANet about whether my behavior violated the letter or the spirit of their guidelines. I prefer to maximize the time I’m playing the game, rather than risk the possibility that I have to spend time arguing about how the game is meant to be played.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Gaile Gray has been explicit about this before: if you can walk away from the keyboard and get caught, they will ban your account.

It doesn’t matter what we, the players call this. ANet considers it a breach of the Terms of Service.

Could you show me where she has said that? I haven’t seen it anywhere in Terms…

Some of ANet’s official responses were posts here (in the forums) that have since been removed, so I hope you’ll be ok with posts that quoted the original.

For example, this post quotes this policy clarification , which includes a list of questions you should ask when determining whether something is ok or not. One of the questions is:

Does this program allow someone to ‘play’ when he/she is not at the computer?

Similarly, GW2 Guru has a copy of the original text.

Some will be compelled to say, “buh buh, if I’m alt-tabbed, I’m still at the computer” and “buh, buh, buh, if I’m reading a book, I’m still at the computer”. And they are welcome to take that pedantic approach to the English language. I don’t think it will get them very far.

Put another way, I don’t think that the “terms of service” could reasonably be explicit about all of the likely conceivable player actions (never mind some unlikely ones). I neither expect the ToS is going to spell out predictable reactions by ANet staff.

Or in less theoretical terms, I don’t want to be in a situation in which I have to be arguing with ANet about whether my behavior violated the letter or the spirit of their guidelines. I prefer to maximize the time I’m playing the game, rather than risk the possibility that I have to spend time arguing about how the game is meant to be played.

I agree with that last part, I’m not gonna do it because it IS a grey area, and they CAN ban me for it. However, I am not simply using pedantic English language to overcome something illegal. My question was simply because it is a game function and it is simply being used. I find it strange that using a game mechanic is “not allowed” more or less, but I accept it, even though I disagree. So I’ll state again, I would not do it, the risk is too great, it however does not make sense, especially since there is no clear cut rule against it, and it is also a feature of the game.

This is an interesting topic.

I do not think auto-attacking is the problem but rather the targeting without active participation.

Being able to AFK and continuously kill/harvest stuff for loot is not an intended feature and can be interpreted as a breach of terms and conditions. If you take a break from the game without moving into a non-combat safe location, you should reasonably expect to receive little more than broken armor for the lack of effort.

Anchoku.8142:

This is an interesting topic.

I do not think auto-attacking is the problem but rather the targeting without active participation.

Being able to AFK and continuously kill/harvest stuff for loot is not an intended feature and can be interpreted as a breach of terms and conditions. If you take a break from the game without moving into a non-combat safe location, you should reasonably expect to receive little more than broken armor for the lack of effort.

Yet, you can put a skill that doesn’t require a target on auto attack. This may not have been intended, but surely they realized that this was going to happen. Precautions should have been made to let it be known that it is considered an exploit, or simply make it so that only skills that require a target can be put on AA( like skill 1).

NaotsuguLH., you are honest player and a integrity player; i hope you take good advice from other player and not repeat it: learn. That is all i have to say:)