Is it Time for Veteran content yet?
It’s beyond time.
It’s probably 18 months past when veteran content should have been added.
Unfortunately Anet won’t implement it because we’re not worthy.
So two new zones aren’t veteran content? Or are you thinking veteran content is only dungeons?
The problem is there are people assuming all veterans want the same stuff…I see no evidence of that.
Umm, if the average player can complete it with a mindless blob, then it’s not the “veteran” content that people are referring to. People want stuff they actually have to work at, mobs or bosses that they might have to spend hour and hours and weeks and weeks of time trying to complete and beat, which would require proper knowledge of builds, weapon sets, and combat mechanics. Content that would be frustratingly difficult for the most experienced dungeon runners in the game, and which most of the GW2 playerbase would not be able to complete due to their stubborn playhowiwant attitudes rather than actually adapting themselves to the challenge.
You still haven’t answered me? “People” want stuff…what people? How many? What percentage?
If 20% of the population of the game wanted difficult content, would that justify producing it. (Yes I pulled that number out of my kitten, it’s just a hypothetical question).
I’m pretty sure there are some veteran players, may even a big percentage of them that don’t play games to be challenged. Some people play games to relax.
And we don’t really know those percentages. But I suspect that there are more people who want something to do that isn’t particularly challenging. That’s my guess.
Anet knows how many people attempted and beat Liadri for example. It based on that, they decided not to put a huge amount of that content in the game. That’s my guess.
Out of the people I ever talked to in the game who have been playing for over 2 years, majority(I don’t know, 80%) wants new content badly. There are people who are happy with grinding gold. There are people who are happy with doing dungeons 24/7. There are people who are happy/obsessed with doing every single achievement there is. I don’t really think this should count as “content”. Is it a causal game, or a game for hardcore gamers? I thought it’s going in the casual direction. Then a way to go would be adding new stuff to do, right? Not new gear to grind for. I feel like this game has some sort of identity crisis.
Personally I’m happy with the new map and with the new carapace/luminescent armour, but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s still not that much to do. Not for people who don’t want to repeat the same notion over and over again.A good start would probably be enabling SAB. I’m not sure why they turned it off in the first place. Maybe it has something to do with the prizes. (But those can be made much more expensive)
Good Point. Exactly a clarification here is needed from everyone. For me a “Hardcore” player means somebody who tries to readh 100 % completion with the game and has more than 25 Hours of play Time under the week ( weekends excluded ). Being “Hardcore” in this definition has nothing to do with your skill or difficulty of content.
As we know this ties all toghether, because it doesnt matter how hard the content is, it just needs more time to finish. Time is the resource here. There are Players with more time and with less time in hand to play this game. Anet should not ignore one side or the other but try to appeal both.
But adding harder content is not the solution, because the time the “hardcore” player finishes it, he will start whining again and get his next hard content. In this TREADMILL approach, players with less time will be utterly crushed under the pressure of never being able to finish content in time.
This is of course exactly what our “pro” players want here. They want this. They want the poeple with less time to whine and despair and quit. This is exactly the psychological effect they want. They want to achieve something others cant. Forced through the available time in their hands. Mind you, TIME, not SKILL.
But that doesnt mean anet should ignore this players. In fact they NEED to add content for such players without punishing what I would call “casual” players in this definition.
It’s beyond time.
It’s probably 18 months past when veteran content should have been added.
Unfortunately Anet won’t implement it because we’re not worthy.
So two new zones aren’t veteran content? Or are you thinking veteran content is only dungeons?
The problem is there are people assuming all veterans want the same stuff…I see no evidence of that.
Umm, if the average player can complete it with a mindless blob, then it’s not the “veteran” content that people are referring to.
So by that token the content in SW is “veteran” content. No “mindless blob” beats 5 champions in four different locations at the same time. There is no way for a zerg to make it to each one in turn in the time given. It takes good tactics and decent setups to beat them all at the same time. Often only 2 or 3 locations succeed.
Then there is the new area in SW, the labyrinth, which takes tactics and out of the box thinking to beat. So far I haven’t seen many beating that content. Honestly I’ve only done it a few times but it seems to be setup to challenge “veteran” players. At least that’s my take.
People want stuff they actually have to work at, mobs or bosses that they might have to spend hour and hours and weeks and weeks of time trying to complete and beat, which would require proper knowledge of builds, weapon sets, and combat mechanics. Content that would be frustratingly difficult for the most experienced dungeon runners in the game, and which most of the GW2 playerbase would not be able to complete due to their stubborn playhowiwant attitudes rather than actually adapting themselves to the challenge.
Ah so here’s the crux of the matter. What is being asked for is single player content. Something that those “casual” players won’t be able to do. That will show how ‘leet you are and give you those ubber shinies. The “end game” content that you can show off to everyone and say "I’m so much better than you!"
Here is where this kind of person fails to understand the very game they play. GW2 is a community game that fosters team play (the “zerg” as you call it in some cases) and there was NEVER any end game content planned. GW1 was more aligned to that thought process, GW2 moved away from that on purpose because people just picking up and playing is what Anet wanted in GW2. Even Blizzard saw the light that maybe making everyone grind to the next level wasn’t very friendly. So they now allow people to level up to 90 for $60/character (which is P2W in my mind).
The point is tailoring to one group that is a small part of the whole will not feed the families of the devs that make and support this game. Certainly if they can I’m sure they would lift up all groups in the game but if push came to shove they will focus on those that keep coming back to the game. And that’s NOT the hard core player since they are the easiest to get turned off from a game due to not getting those nice belly rubs and super sweet phat loot armor.
Peace.
Unfortunately I think all the veterans in most games are currently being displaced. I mean look around…
No new dungeons, wvw updates, or PvP (we’ll see in a few weeks)
I know Sapience left turbine after a similar and much more public realization. (Sapience was the dev in charge of lotro’s community team, until he announced that only 10% of the player base actually wanted ‘raid level’ endgame.)
Listen to any vanilla WoW fan and they’ll tell you the game is getting easier via nerfs and the like. (WoD excluded because I don’t know how that’s working out)…Unfortunately devs are starting to ignore vets more and more, but not just here.
You are just hearing from the scrubs that do LFR all day and claim the game is ‘easy’. They wouldn’t stand a chance even in heroic let alone mythic mode. Blizz doesn’t ignore any 1 specific group, they cater to everyone. That is why the game has consistently made billions and has millions and millions of subs. Ppl complain in that game for no reason, whereas GW2 has real issues which are completely ignored and we are fed nothing but this living story crap which takes 30 minutes to complete.
If the WoW community was forced to play this game for a day I honestly think some would alt F4 life because of the lack of content. It is embarrassing that ANet cannot manage their resources and give the game what it needs… raids, pvp modes, and attention to all aspects of the game. Hell, they still can’t fix bugs that have been in since release. I still consistently get the immobilize glitch in this game where I can’t move for absolutely no reason after a teleport or some such. Some leap/rush skills miss 90% of the time, etc. WoD bugs getting hotfixed within a week, not surprising it’s Blizz after all.
One really wonders if ANet are afk because they are completely and utterly silent on the games development because of the most ridiculous policy.
Like I said, embarrassing. And it completely rips any will I have to play because I don’t know if the game is ever going to develop and expand in any significant way.
Particle effect slider would be ‘too confusing’
I’m talking about end-game content, such as revisited version/iterations of Fissure of Woe, Underworld, Urgoz’s Warren, The Deep, etc. That was end-game content. It required skill, knowledge and a good cooperative team to execute successfully.
What we have right now is fractals (which some people get bored of very easily) and not even a hard mode for dungeons. Just because you have two new L80 zones which are getting thinner by the day (yes I’ve seen it happen for myself) which are LS-invoked hardly qualifies it as veteran content.
Obviously the game needs more challenging content in ALL modes of gameplay, but our voices aren’t being heard… and even if they are, there’s no way they’ll respond back with “yes we can implement this”… why is that? (besides being mentioned in a CDI) Oh that’s right, the policy, again.
So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.
I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.
The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.
I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.
Maybe there’s a reason for that.
And maybe you’re skewing facts.
We didn’t have Guild Halls in GW2 – yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.
We don’t have build templates in GW2 yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.
And the list could go on.
There are a lot of things they had in GW1 which a lot of players used and liked and somehow these things never made it into GW2.I think there’s a reason for that too but not the one you’re cleverly implying. It’s just bad game design.
How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1? I’m curious. Because most players I know never did. Maybe you’re skewing the facts.
Bottom line is you think you know what most Guild Wars 1 players liked or did, but there’s no real way to prove it. You obviously would have hung out with people who played your game.
Since a huge number of people soloed Guild Wars 1, and many of those people never joined a Guild, it stands to reason a pretty large percentage of people never used Guild Halls.
Obviously, most of the people who solo didn’t run dungeons or elite content either. And there are always more of them than we think. It’s been said again and again by lots of people. In fact, it was such an important question that pre-launch, Can I solo Guild Wars 2 was on the FAQ.
Aside from the Guild Halls are not “playable content”. I’m not sure that anyone doesn’t play or plays a game strictly because it does or doesn’t have guild halls.
You can argue against it but honestly I almost never saw players outside guilds. Also build templates were used since almost every player I came across had to ping his bar and save different bars at some point.
You can argue against it – but it’s common sense to realize these were very commonly used in GW1 and it would be a safe bet to say the majority of players used them.
If you want to argue against everything just for the sake of arguing – then you don’t know that what different devs have said about hardcore content applies to this game.
You can speculate – but don’t have any hard facts or numbers.
So on the one hand it’s ok for you to do speculative thinking – but not for me?
Really clever Vayne.
You’re always using the “we can’t know for sure” argument when it suits you – but then go around and post stuff like :
I’ve never heard any MMO dev anywhere saying most people play through the hardest content. But I haven’t heard MMO devs quite a few times say the opposite.
We know from dev quotes that more people solo than you’d think and more people just bang about in the open world. It doesn’t matter what I like or don’t like at all.
You don’t know that for sure either – you don’t know if it even applies to this game – but you’re throwing it around as if we should accept it as a sensible premise.
So please – if you can speculate about what’s probably the case than so can I.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
It’s not that I didn’t care about high end elite instances. It’s that a percentage of the playerbase didn’t care about elite instances. Not one or two people….a significant percentage.
I guess you can back your claim? Or are you speaking for everyone else again?
Anet devs have said so in the past. Asking me to find a Guild Wars 1 quote at this point is pointless, because it was a long time ago. But by percentage, very few people who ever played Guild Wars 1 beat DOA.
And I’m not speaking for everyone. I was in an alliance with well over 500 people at one point and most of them didn’t run elite content. It was hard to find groups for elite content, because the alliance was more casual.
People should trust Vayne’s word because he’s Vayne.
If someone else posts something they have to bring evidence and support their claim with facts because otherwise they’ll get the " you can’t know that for sure" defense.
If Vayne posts it we should all not only let it slide but also believe it. Makes perfect sense.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Ah so here’s the crux of the matter. What is being asked for is single player content. Something that those “casual” players won’t be able to do. That will show how ‘leet you are and give you those ubber shinies. The “end game” content that you can show off to everyone and say "I’m so much better than you!"
Here is where this kind of person fails to understand the very game they play. GW2 is a community game that fosters team play (the “zerg” as you call it in some cases) and there was NEVER any end game content planned. GW1 was more aligned to that thought process, GW2 moved away from that on purpose because people just picking up and playing is what Anet wanted in GW2. Even Blizzard saw the light that maybe making everyone grind to the next level wasn’t very friendly. So they now allow people to level up to 90 for $60/character (which is P2W in my mind).
The point is tailoring to one group that is a small part of the whole will not feed the families of the devs that make and support this game. Certainly if they can I’m sure they would lift up all groups in the game but if push came to shove they will focus on those that keep coming back to the game. And that’s NOT the hard core player since they are the easiest to get turned off from a game due to not getting those nice belly rubs and super sweet phat loot armor.
Peace.
The problem is that absurd group content should not be rewarding.
Any fight where there are so many players you can’t even see the boss shouldn’t be something people get well rewarded for.
It’s not about single player content – but for those numbers to be properly adjusted to the challenge at hand.
1 man, 5 man , 20 man – all this content can be scaled properly so that people are challenged and rewarded with rewards that say : “We did this – we worked hard for it and got it”.
I don’t honestly see how you can support mindless zerging. Also I don’t remember them ever saying GW2 would have no end game. And I’m pretty sure I read every kitten bit of info before the game came out – even the ones that weren’t in english.
Regarding the concept of “team play” -do you even understand it?
There’s no team play in a zerg – nobody cares what others are doing. Nobody KNOWS what other players are doing and almost every time a zerg is bigger than 20-30 people you can’t even see what the boss is doing let alone other players.
Where’s the team play there?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
What this game really lacks is difficult 5 man dungeons that is actually rewarding to complete. The reason nobody does TA Aether is the reward for completion is so lackluster its sad. Achievements are all it was good for and since those are done there’s no reason to go back. Arah p4 is a good challenge if you don’t have it completely figured out but even then the reward is not enough for the time invested. A hard mode for dungeons with reactive enemy AI would be nice where stacking is completely ineffective and the mobs had skills they would cycle through at random and not @ x% health use skill y.
The reason nobody does TA Aether is the reward for completion is so lackluster its sad.
You still have a chance to get dreamer’s weapon. Some dungeon group told me they get 1 for every 4-5 runs. I dont’ know how accurate that is.
That being said, if more people do it, the TP might be spamed with dreamers weapon that it’ll no longer be worth it.
i’ve opened 16 chests and never got any of the skins. its also not worth repeating constantly thanks to the completion reward suffering the daily DR.
The reason nobody does TA Aether is the reward for completion is so lackluster its sad.
The reason lot of people do not do TA Aether is that an average person does not have 4+ hours of free time to devote to a single dungeon. And if you think that i am exagerrating, you are right – an average gw2 player would be unable to finish this path at all.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
so I returned to GW1 and WoW and for challenging content.
LOL good one…..
It’s the raids that does it. The rest of the game is as sandbox easy, too, I know
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.
Has anet ever explicitly stated they care to put out more content for more dedicated players? Serious question here, I am all for it but the more I play gw2 the more I feel that the Devs have come to the conclusion that;
A) They are the smallest demographic of players
B) They demand the most and hardest to please
C) They are the quickest to complain and stir the controversy pot
D) They burn through content the fastestAll of these kinda spell out a why bother situation to me.
Just asking and I wish anet would say something of their intentions because if they don’t care to make content for dedicated players so that these players can move on and find something to satisfy them.
This! Which is why I now play 30 to 60 minutes every 2 weeks and I don’t ever look inside the store anymore. Anet’s silence and uncaring attitude has killed this most beautiful game for me. Thanks Anet for waking me up.
(edited by Hybarf Tics.2048)
And I still can’t solo any dungeon..
Story Mode or Explorer?
It’s been awhile since I did Lv80 Arah Story, but at that time, I tried to solo it and I can’t because I need another person to put down the stone. Maybe it’s been changed now though, but I haven’t really tried. As for other Story Mode, I haven’t attempted other Story Mode dungeons yet.
Well, that’s just a hard mechanic. Doesn’t really relate to challenging content. I solo AC story on my ranger a few times but haven’t tried any other ones. Give AC a try and if you run into any problems let me know. There are a few tricks to it.
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.
The only replayable content that can remain a challenge even after you have done it many times already is PvP. In any PvE case, the challenge will be lesser and lesser on any subsequent tries. Unless someone is incapable of learning, of course. Or has skill level below the required bar to pass (but then it would definitely not be fun for such a person).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.The only replayable content that can remain a challenge even after you have done it many times already is PvP. In any PvE case, the challenge will be lesser and lesser on any subsequent tries. Unless someone is incapable of learning, of course.
That does not mean there shouldnt be PvE content like it.
It means it should get updates and patches more often, Just like they are doing with zerg farming events. And hell i would much wrather earn my gold via PvE content wich requires me to use my skills and utilities then in a mindless zerg fest. Especially if it grants me the same return rate in gold vs time spent.
Ea. 1 boss takes 30 minutes, 30 minutes chestfarming grants howmuch gold on average? it should be the same. Doing mundane tasks shouldnt be the only way to increase gold capacity at a decent rate. And right now as it stands zerg farm content earns about 5/10 times as much then any single boss ingame. Just look at tequatl.
Killing a huge legendary dragon grants you the same riches as running around opening boxes with keys? Oh no wait, it grants you even less with a bonus RNG on skins. And its capped to once a day. And your event reward is almost the same as any other event at the same level. Be it helping frogs to killing any champ on the map.
The problem is obvious if you ask me.
It’s beyond time.
It’s probably 18 months past when veteran content should have been added.
Unfortunately Anet won’t implement it because we’re not worthy.
So two new zones aren’t veteran content? Or are you thinking veteran content is only dungeons?
The problem is there are people assuming all veterans want the same stuff…I see no evidence of that.
Umm, if the average player can complete it with a mindless blob, then it’s not the “veteran” content that people are referring to.
So by that token the content in SW is “veteran” content. No “mindless blob” beats 5 champions in four different locations at the same time. There is no way for a zerg to make it to each one in turn in the time given. It takes good tactics and decent setups to beat them all at the same time. Often only 2 or 3 locations succeed.
Then there is the new area in SW, the labyrinth, which takes tactics and out of the box thinking to beat. So far I haven’t seen many beating that content. Honestly I’ve only done it a few times but it seems to be setup to challenge “veteran” players. At least that’s my take.
Does beating all 5 breach bosses actually reward anything making it worthwhile? None of the maps I ever did my achievements on completed this, and I got all of my achievements and opened a bunch of chests, but this seems like a rather pointless exercise.
It does require coordination, I’ll give you that. It’s still zergy zerg crap where anyone can run any build with any gear and spam 1, and the events will be completed and then start over, whether all 5 bosses are killed within the allotted time or not.
I haven’t even bothered playing since the last patch, except for working on some dungeon solos, so I can’t comment on that new content.
People want stuff they actually have to work at, mobs or bosses that they might have to spend hour and hours and weeks and weeks of time trying to complete and beat, which would require proper knowledge of builds, weapon sets, and combat mechanics. Content that would be frustratingly difficult for the most experienced dungeon runners in the game, and which most of the GW2 playerbase would not be able to complete due to their stubborn playhowiwant attitudes rather than actually adapting themselves to the challenge.
Ah so here’s the crux of the matter. What is being asked for is single player content. Something that those “casual” players won’t be able to do. That will show how ‘leet you are and give you those ubber shinies. The “end game” content that you can show off to everyone and say "I’m so much better than you!"
How is this single player? I’m specifically talking about 5 player content here. Organized teams using voice comms. And what shinies are you referring to exactly? I didn’t even mention loot. You’re just making up kitten to support your own viewpoint here.
Also, don’t need any of that to know I’m a better player than 95% of the GW2 playerbase. Hell, anyone who knows what a fire field is and knows how to stack might is in that percentile, so that’s not exactly saying a lot :P
Here is where this kind of person fails to understand the very game they play. GW2 is a community game that fosters team play (the “zerg” as you call it in some cases) and there was NEVER any end game content planned. GW1 was more aligned to that thought process, GW2 moved away from that on purpose because people just picking up and playing is what Anet wanted in GW2. Even Blizzard saw the light that maybe making everyone grind to the next level wasn’t very friendly. So they now allow people to level up to 90 for $60/character (which is P2W in my mind).
The point is tailoring to one group that is a small part of the whole will not feed the families of the devs that make and support this game. Certainly if they can I’m sure they would lift up all groups in the game but if push came to shove they will focus on those that keep coming back to the game. And that’s NOT the hard core player since they are the easiest to get turned off from a game due to not getting those nice belly rubs and super sweet phat loot armor.
Peace.
You say fosters teamwork, I say caters to monkeys.
But seriously, I get that they would like to have organized events, but if their plan was really working, then there wouldn’t be this need to go to lfg to look for organized maps. If they truly fostered teamwork, then organized maps would be the default rather than the exception.
Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.
Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.
This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.
Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.
You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?
Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.
10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.
How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1?
Alright then lets apply the same logic to truly universal elements in GW1.
100% of all players in GW1 had a fully customizable skill bar…and yet that is not present in GW2.
Every single player who played beyond the tutorial in GW1 had both a primary and secondary profession on their character.
So 100% of all players used those and yet Anet chose not to include them in GW2. Not being included in GW2 is not at all an indication that something was unused by the majority of players in GW1.
snip
So, as I always ask, what percentage of the playerbase ever did those things, or did them regularly.
I played Guild Wars 1 for well over five years. During that time, I did all of the end game instances once. That’s it. Once. It wasn’t fun for me. It wasn’t entertaining. It was annoying. It’s not why I play this game. I assume I’m not alone. Well I know I’m not because I play with other people like me.
The traditional thought of many players who like that sort of thing is that most people like that sort of thing…but I’m not sure it’s true.
I think if a lot of people by percentage did run DOA or The Underworld or FoW, then Anet would have put more of it in Guild Wars 2. They didn’t.
Maybe there’s a reason for that.
And maybe you’re skewing facts.
We didn’t have Guild Halls in GW2 – yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.
We don’t have build templates in GW2 yet an overwhelming majority of players used them in GW1.
And the list could go on.
There are a lot of things they had in GW1 which a lot of players used and liked and somehow these things never made it into GW2.I think there’s a reason for that too but not the one you’re cleverly implying. It’s just bad game design.
How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1? I’m curious. Because most players I know never did. Maybe you’re skewing the facts.
Bottom line is you think you know what most Guild Wars 1 players liked or did, but there’s no real way to prove it. You obviously would have hung out with people who played your game.
Since a huge number of people soloed Guild Wars 1, and many of those people never joined a Guild, it stands to reason a pretty large percentage of people never used Guild Halls.
Obviously, most of the people who solo didn’t run dungeons or elite content either. And there are always more of them than we think. It’s been said again and again by lots of people. In fact, it was such an important question that pre-launch, Can I solo Guild Wars 2 was on the FAQ.
Aside from the Guild Halls are not “playable content”. I’m not sure that anyone doesn’t play or plays a game strictly because it does or doesn’t have guild halls.
You can argue against it but honestly I almost never saw players outside guilds. Also build templates were used since almost every player I came across had to ping his bar and save different bars at some point.
You can argue against it – but it’s common sense to realize these were very commonly used in GW1 and it would be a safe bet to say the majority of players used them.
If you want to argue against everything just for the sake of arguing – then you don’t know that what different devs have said about hardcore content applies to this game.
You can speculate – but don’t have any hard facts or numbers.So on the one hand it’s ok for you to do speculative thinking – but not for me?
Really clever Vayne.
You’re always using the “we can’t know for sure” argument when it suits you – but then go around and post stuff like :I’ve never heard any MMO dev anywhere saying most people play through the hardest content. But I haven’t heard MMO devs quite a few times say the opposite.
We know from dev quotes that more people solo than you’d think and more people just bang about in the open world. It doesn’t matter what I like or don’t like at all.You don’t know that for sure either – you don’t know if it even applies to this game – but you’re throwing it around as if we should accept it as a sensible premise.
So please – if you can speculate about what’s probably the case than so can I.
We can’t know for sure. It’s true. But there is annecdotal evidence, actual quotes from actual devs that talk about how few players do the hardest content. The only one I could probably find now is the newest. Would you like me to dig up that quote for you? It’s from a Lotro dev.
Then tell me that Guild Wars 1 was so different from other games that the rules that applied to virtually MMO we’ve heard of doesn’t apply to it.
How do you know an overwhelming amount of players used them in Guild Wars 1?
Alright then lets apply the same logic to truly universal elements in GW1.
100% of all players in GW1 had a fully customizable skill bar…and yet that is not present in GW2.
Every single player who played beyond the tutorial in GW1 had both a primary and secondary profession on their character.
So 100% of all players used those and yet Anet chose not to include them in GW2. Not being included in GW2 is not at all an indication that something was unused by the majority of players in GW1.
Yes 100% of players had a fully customizable skill bar, that doesn’t mean most players actually customized their skill bar. I’d wager most players never customized anything, people being what they are..
Everyone had a primary and secondary profession. 100% true. However, that become one of the huge problems in Guild Wars 1. You think that’s a benefit but from a game creation point of view it was impossible to balance. Why do you think Anet made some of the changes they made to this game. It’s from lessons they learned.
There’s nothing in Guild Wars 2 like a permasin or kitten monk, or an imbagon paragon. There are reasons why some changes are made. Did it occur to you that more people left the game because they couldn’t figure out builds than stayed with the game because they loved making builds. Guild Wars 1 was a niche game for a reason.
Anet chose not to make big end game areas that most people didn’t need, because it made for more players having content they like. They didn’t waste resources on it. That’s my theory.
They took away the complexity of the build system because it was harder to balance, which drove some people away and it was too confusing which drove other people away, which is good for business. It’s the exact same theory.
Whether or not the skill bar could be customized is going to cost you a huge number of players is debatable but it would undoubtedly cost you some.
By the same token, having everything laid out in the same way makes it easy to come back to the came and play different characters. Someone posted about that on these forums not long ago.
Again, it’s all about keeping the majority of the customers…that’s the theory.
If it makes you feel better I’m not in the majority either.
Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.
Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.
This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.
Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.
You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?
Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.
10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.
7 million people brought Guild Wars 1. Do you really really believe that?
Let’s break it down. Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies. Not Prophecies. Not Factions. Not Nightfall. Not Eye of the North. I believe most players had all four games. Do that 7 million becomes a whole lot closer to 2 million.
Just about everyone I knew in my guild had multiple accounts. Between my wife and I we have five accounts.
What makes you think 7 million copies of Guild Wars 1 sold means anywhere near 7 million people buying it?
Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.
Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.
This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.
Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.
You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?
Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.
10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.
7 million people brought Guild Wars 1. Do you really really believe that?
Let’s break it down. Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies. Not Prophecies. Not Factions. Not Nightfall. Not Eye of the North. I believe most players had all four games. Do that 7 million becomes a whole lot closer to 2 million.
Just about everyone I knew in my guild had multiple accounts. Between my wife and I we have five accounts.
What makes you think 7 million copies of Guild Wars 1 sold means anywhere near 7 million people buying it?
I think he was referring to your post on page 2 where you say 7 million people bought gw2. In the context, it appears you meant gw1. Pretty sure gw2 hasn’t hit 7 million either.
We do know that the 7 million was not the amount . Of people though. Just by myself I count towards over 8 of those 7 million sales.
Anecdotes are no evidence.
Vayne if you really want to shill so bad, you gotta try harder!
:^)I don’t think he can help but make things up at this point.
Or you can listen to what devs have said for years from game to game, including some of the Guild Wars 1 devs and make an educated decision based on that information.
This game isn’t the only MMORPG in existence and for years devs have been saying how few people run the hardest content.
Most recently it was a dev from Lotro who said less than 10% of the population raids or did PvP…and that wasn’t recently that was consistently from launch.
You think Guild Wars 1 was any different?
Other devs have said similar things through the years MMOs have been a thing. Some of us ignore what devs say, some of us pay attention.
10% of your 7 million people that bought the game would 700,000. Even though its a small portion of the game its still a very large amount of people. I think all it could do by giving some of these players what they want is help the game. The majority of the things people want (like more dungeons, weapons, and classes) would not hurt anyone that does not want them. Just like how all the people that hate the LS do not have to do it and it does not hurt them. I’m so tired of people fighting against getting more new content. I honestly can not understand why anyone can attack every single idea for new content unless they are paid to do so because anet does not want to and will not do anything except for LS. Because there honestly is no down side to adding more stuff for people to do. Yes not every one is going to be pleased with everything but spreading the new content around more areas of the game (not just LS)so that each area keeps growing is your best chance of pleasing everyone at least a little bit.
7 million people brought Guild Wars 1. Do you really really believe that?
Let’s break it down. Guild Wars 1 sold 7 million copies. Not Prophecies. Not Factions. Not Nightfall. Not Eye of the North. I believe most players had all four games. Do that 7 million becomes a whole lot closer to 2 million.
Just about everyone I knew in my guild had multiple accounts. Between my wife and I we have five accounts.
What makes you think 7 million copies of Guild Wars 1 sold means anywhere near 7 million people buying it?
I think he was referring to your post on page 2 where you say 7 million people bought gw2. In the context, it appears you meant gw1. Pretty sure gw2 hasn’t hit 7 million either.
We do know that the 7 million was not the amount . Of people though. Just by myself I count towards over 8 of those 7 million sales.
I’d have to see the post. I certainly don’t believe 7 million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold. If the search function worked, I’d look for it, but it’s just not worth it at this point.
I’m just gonna go ahead and call BS. I know LOTS of people that beat DOA so you can’t say very few. Would have made more sense if you said a small percent instead. Seems like a lot of what you say is contrived lol.
It’s very few people by percentage. 7 million people bought Guild Wars 2. I’m pretty sure a million didn’t finish DOA.
The spirit of what I’m saying you’re completely ignoring. In every single game we’ve heard devs talk about this, devs have always said only a small percentage of people ever finish the hardest content. The WoW devs said it. Guild Wars 1 devs said something similar, I wish I had the quote.
But it’s been repeated enough times over the years where only someone not paying attention wouldn’t have heard something to that effect.
By the same token I’ve never heard a dev come out and say that most people finish the hardest content.
This one here.
Either way, it was a mistype or two.
I’d have to see the post. I certainly don’t believe 7 million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold. If the search function worked, I’d look for it, but it’s just not worth it at this point.
Last info puts main game sales at 4 million, and China sales at 3 million, so it has actually passes 7 mil total. While current main game sales are unknown (the 4 mil info is a bit outdated), Chinese info is more recent – and unlikely to change much, seeing as Kong Zhong is mentioning that “the number of players has stabilized” which is a PR speak of “the game is not selling well anymore”.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I’d have to see the post. I certainly don’t believe 7 million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold. If the search function worked, I’d look for it, but it’s just not worth it at this point.
Last info puts main game sales at 4 million, and China sales at 3 million, so it has actually passes 7 mil total. While current main game sales are unknown (the 4 mil info is a bit outdated), Chinese info is more recent – and unlikely to change much, seeing as Kong Zhong is mentioning that “the number of players has stabilized” which is a PR speak of “the game is not selling well anymore”.
I haven’t seen 3 million sales total in China, only a certain number of “accounts created” which is a bit different. I’m pretty sure it was worded in such a way as to include people who get free beta invites for example.
I never saw a sales figure announced for China.
I’d have to see the post. I certainly don’t believe 7 million copies of Guild Wars 2 have been sold. If the search function worked, I’d look for it, but it’s just not worth it at this point.
Last info puts main game sales at 4 million, and China sales at 3 million, so it has actually passes 7 mil total. While current main game sales are unknown (the 4 mil info is a bit outdated), Chinese info is more recent – and unlikely to change much, seeing as Kong Zhong is mentioning that “the number of players has stabilized” which is a PR speak of “the game is not selling well anymore”.
Anet came out almost immediately and said the 3 million figure was false and they were likely meaning characters created.
Relevant thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/China-sales-news-were-inaccurate
My mistake, then. Missed that correction info.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
People talking about percentages… go look at the Achievement Points leaderboards. I’m going from my friends and guild lists, which unfortunately don’t feature a nice spread, but it’ll do for a couple of examples.
A player with 3645 AP is in the 90% bracket. That means that fewer than 10% of all players ever got to 3645 AP.
A player with 420 AP is in the 40% bracket. Meaning 40%+ of all players never even got to 420 AP.
Tell me again how “most” players are demanding hardcore content?
I’m not against it, in moderation. But pretending it would be touched by anything other than a small section of the population is ridiculous.
Then tell me that Guild Wars 1 was so different from other games that the rules that applied to virtually MMO we’ve heard of doesn’t apply to it.
It actually IS different enough that generic rules can barely be aplied to it.
Anyhow, I did raids in Lotro, and the only thing that upset me really was the lack of a proper group and the guild loot distribution for jewelery and other items that weren’t based on tokens.
The thing is, GW applies a completely different approach to gear acquisition and importance thereof compared to other mmos, mostly because of its focus to allow for a level-field, skill-based, and strategic pvp with a building freedom inspired by Magic the Gathering.
However despite pvp being the guiding principle, pve wasn’t in the least neglected and had a lot of replayability. Pvp simply – and by definition, too – has far greater replayability, and if it is quality enough, you’re looking at years of play time.
I dare say you didn’t touch that aspect of the game, and didn’t really get into the pve part either, but that is your loss. It isn’t as completionist-oriented as GW2 is, but it still offered a great deal to virtually every player type.
Also, I have yet to encounter a player who 1) does not use templates 2) has something against them. The same applies to GHs, observer mode, pvp characters, and numerous other QoL’s us GW vets have come to take for granted.
Surely, you must be trolling (yourself) if you choose to claim such features are not in players’ best interest and as such greatly appreciated and used by everyone. Yes, everyone as in to the very last of player who was aware of said features.
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
Back to discussion, What can be a solution as a “hard” content, which is not grindy, is not exploited as gold/minute content and dont punish players with less time in hands?
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.The only replayable content that can remain a challenge even after you have done it many times already is PvP. In any PvE case, the challenge will be lesser and lesser on any subsequent tries. Unless someone is incapable of learning, of course.
That does not mean there shouldnt be PvE content like it.
It means it should get updates and patches more often, Just like they are doing with zerg farming events. And hell i would much wrather earn my gold via PvE content wich requires me to use my skills and utilities then in a mindless zerg fest. Especially if it grants me the same return rate in gold vs time spent.Ea. 1 boss takes 30 minutes, 30 minutes chestfarming grants howmuch gold on average? it should be the same. Doing mundane tasks shouldnt be the only way to increase gold capacity at a decent rate. And right now as it stands zerg farm content earns about 5/10 times as much then any single boss ingame. Just look at tequatl.
Killing a huge legendary dragon grants you the same riches as running around opening boxes with keys? Oh no wait, it grants you even less with a bonus RNG on skins. And its capped to once a day. And your event reward is almost the same as any other event at the same level. Be it helping frogs to killing any champ on the map.
The problem is obvious if you ask me.
OK. I will make a point. This kind of comment from you shows exactly why demanding more “pro” content threads are always about the same problem.
There is enough content out there. You Just do not use them. You go around and do SW chest farm and then complain about mindless zerging/grinding.
And you are not alone in this matter. Almost everyone feels this way.
But this is not about lack of content. This is about the rewarding system and the way we look into the content : As a Gold source. Thats why no body does TA AE Path. Because Gold/Minute is not feasible.
Anet doesnt need to add content, they need to rewamp the reward system and the current Wall Street Simulator TP, which forces players always go for best Gold/Minute and miss actually the content they are demanding here in forums.
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.The only replayable content that can remain a challenge even after you have done it many times already is PvP. In any PvE case, the challenge will be lesser and lesser on any subsequent tries. Unless someone is incapable of learning, of course.
That does not mean there shouldnt be PvE content like it.
It means it should get updates and patches more often, Just like they are doing with zerg farming events. And hell i would much wrather earn my gold via PvE content wich requires me to use my skills and utilities then in a mindless zerg fest. Especially if it grants me the same return rate in gold vs time spent.Ea. 1 boss takes 30 minutes, 30 minutes chestfarming grants howmuch gold on average? it should be the same. Doing mundane tasks shouldnt be the only way to increase gold capacity at a decent rate. And right now as it stands zerg farm content earns about 5/10 times as much then any single boss ingame. Just look at tequatl.
Killing a huge legendary dragon grants you the same riches as running around opening boxes with keys? Oh no wait, it grants you even less with a bonus RNG on skins. And its capped to once a day. And your event reward is almost the same as any other event at the same level. Be it helping frogs to killing any champ on the map.
The problem is obvious if you ask me.
OK. I will make a point. This kind of comment from you shows exactly why demanding more “pro” content threads are always about the same problem.
There is enough content out there. You Just do not use them. You go around and do SW chest farm and then complain about mindless zerging/grinding.
And you are not alone in this matter. Almost everyone feels this way.
But this is not about lack of content. This is about the rewarding system and the way we look into the content : As a Gold source. Thats why no body does TA AE Path. Because Gold/Minute is not feasible.
Anet doesnt need to add content, they need to rewamp the reward system and the current Wall Street Simulator TP, which forces players always go for best Gold/Minute and miss actually the content they are demanding here in forums.
This is not a ANET problem, this is a human nature problem. Look at LOTRO, gold is worthless there for most of what you need and how to get things and yet you still have a good number of people showing off how much they have or going to great lengths to get even more.
Its funny how my posts are getting shorter and shorter because in essence its all about 1 thing.
Fun, Replayable, Lasting Content. Not a farm, so whats left?
A challenge.The only replayable content that can remain a challenge even after you have done it many times already is PvP. In any PvE case, the challenge will be lesser and lesser on any subsequent tries. Unless someone is incapable of learning, of course.
That does not mean there shouldnt be PvE content like it.
It means it should get updates and patches more often, Just like they are doing with zerg farming events. And hell i would much wrather earn my gold via PvE content wich requires me to use my skills and utilities then in a mindless zerg fest. Especially if it grants me the same return rate in gold vs time spent.Ea. 1 boss takes 30 minutes, 30 minutes chestfarming grants howmuch gold on average? it should be the same. Doing mundane tasks shouldnt be the only way to increase gold capacity at a decent rate. And right now as it stands zerg farm content earns about 5/10 times as much then any single boss ingame. Just look at tequatl.
Killing a huge legendary dragon grants you the same riches as running around opening boxes with keys? Oh no wait, it grants you even less with a bonus RNG on skins. And its capped to once a day. And your event reward is almost the same as any other event at the same level. Be it helping frogs to killing any champ on the map.
The problem is obvious if you ask me.
OK. I will make a point. This kind of comment from you shows exactly why demanding more “pro” content threads are always about the same problem.
There is enough content out there. You Just do not use them. You go around and do SW chest farm and then complain about mindless zerging/grinding.
And you are not alone in this matter. Almost everyone feels this way.
But this is not about lack of content. This is about the rewarding system and the way we look into the content : As a Gold source. Thats why no body does TA AE Path. Because Gold/Minute is not feasible.
Anet doesnt need to add content, they need to rewamp the reward system and the current Wall Street Simulator TP, which forces players always go for best Gold/Minute and miss actually the content they are demanding here in forums.
This is not a ANET problem, this is a human nature problem. Look at LOTRO, gold is worthless there for most of what you need and how to get things and yet you still have a good number of people showing off how much they have or going to great lengths to get even more.
I agree. I actually had a thread about this :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Main-Approach-of-Players-to-GW2/first#post4584530
But as human behaviour to show off, brag and bully wont change, and most of the MMO players tend to such behaviour, we cant expect it to change from itself.
Anet needs to intervene and free us from the shackels of Gold Farming, which destorys the feeling of accomplishment and rewards and forces boring farm minded behaviour. This bores EVERYONE not only “veterans”.
Then tell me that Guild Wars 1 was so different from other games that the rules that applied to virtually MMO we’ve heard of doesn’t apply to it.
It actually IS different enough that generic rules can barely be aplied to it.
Anyhow, I did raids in Lotro, and the only thing that upset me really was the lack of a proper group and the guild loot distribution for jewelery and other items that weren’t based on tokens.
The thing is, GW applies a completely different approach to gear acquisition and importance thereof compared to other mmos, mostly because of its focus to allow for a level-field, skill-based, and strategic pvp with a building freedom inspired by Magic the Gathering.
However despite pvp being the guiding principle, pve wasn’t in the least neglected and had a lot of replayability. Pvp simply – and by definition, too – has far greater replayability, and if it is quality enough, you’re looking at years of play time.
I dare say you didn’t touch that aspect of the game, and didn’t really get into the pve part either, but that is your loss. It isn’t as completionist-oriented as GW2 is, but it still offered a great deal to virtually every player type.Also, I have yet to encounter a player who 1) does not use templates 2) has something against them. The same applies to GHs, observer mode, pvp characters, and numerous other QoL’s us GW vets have come to take for granted.
Surely, you must be trolling (yourself) if you choose to claim such features are not in players’ best interest and as such greatly appreciated and used by everyone. Yes, everyone as in to the very last of player who was aware of said features.
And now you have ‘met’ one. I never used most of those things, and still do not. And, yes, I am and was aware of them. (Oh, and in case you are interested, 7000+ hours played on Main account, plus 2 other accounts encompassing 7 purchases of the game[s].) Lol.
^Must be the Amish of GW.
Point still stands that they are part of indispensable QoLs every player can but benefit from.
And if you happen to be against them, then you are kindly invited to share some reasonable arguments as to why. I am all eyes.
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(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
^Must be the Amish of GW.
Point still stands they’re indispensable QoLs every player can but benefit from.
No, I had 2 guildies that had no use for templates either. While they had nothing against them, they also had no use for them. They only really played on their main characters and at most ever changed like 2 skills. Really no need for a template in that situation. They also didn’t pvp, at all. So again, no need for the templates.
For some people they were just overkill. For others, they were a godsend. It just depends on how you typically played.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Only thing this game needs is replayable content. Not story driven do once, content.
Same reason why i dont watch that one just released episode of my favourite anime 40 times in a row. Its boring.
If they actually added stuff with replayable content wich isnt ‘i dont care about my characters skills, progressions, class, race cuz all i do is press 1,1,1,1 no matter what zerg im in’
i probably wouldnt complain anymore.
But as it stands now, and the game is severly lacking replayability im hovering over the idea to uninstall, because why play something ive done too much already with the past 6 months having nothing new thrown on my stick, eventho i do still want that carrot.
(edited by ErazorZ.5209)
^Must be the Amish of GW.
Point still stands they’re indispensable QoLs every player can but benefit from.No, I had 2 guildies that had no use for templates either. While they had nothing against them, they also had no use for them. They only really played on their main characters and at most ever changed like 2 skills. Really no need for a template in that situation. They also didn’t pvp, at all. So again, no need for the templates.
For some people they were just overkill. For others, they were a godsend. It just depends on how you typically played.
Well, it is the pvp where templates shine most, especially for equipment; but to stick to a single build throughout years feels like one missed a large chunk of the game, one which makes the game so different (better) from the rest.
I now have only 1 pve character and still, you’ll find me swapping builds around almost every time, depending on what zone I enter and the mood (kill vs heal vs mix).
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Only thing this game needs is replayable content.
How do you define “replayable content”? And what makes this content you think the game needs different from the replayable content we already have?
While this may sound like a rethorical question at first, think about it. Literally, replayable content is content you can do again and again and again. Looking at the wealth of dynamic events, jumping puzzles, mini dungeons and other stuff in this game, we already have a ton more replayable content than most classic MMOs, where content comes in the variety of 1-time-through questlines, daily repeatable (usually endgame) busywork-quest (bounties and similar), and group-/raid-sized instances that often are gated by very specific gear and group composition requirements and daily or even weekly instance locks on completion.
Compared to that, we have dynamic event chains in many (if not all) maps across Tyria, that have a significant impact on the part of the world they are in, by opening and closing waypoints, merchants, or simple accessibility of map areas. Temple chains in Orr, centaur wars in Harathi Hinterland, conquering the brand in the Iron Marches, gaining favor of the Zephyrites in Dry Top, or saving quaggans and hyleks in the Timberline Falls, there are event chains/meta events all over the place that are involved, offer (different levels of) story, challenge, and rewards, and have the big advantage of being replayable whenever you feel like it, unlike most quest chains in more traditional MMOs.
Sprinkle in some jumping puzzles or mini dungeons you come across, seek out crafting resources for personal use or selling on the TP, just go off and explore the maps if you need a change of pace to renew your interest. Just yesterday, I was map-completing Timberline Falls one a character (the 6th to world completion, and probably #10+ to complete that map) and stumbled into the set of grawl/risen caves in the western mountain range of that map. Despite the fact that I’ve been in that map countless times and thought I knew every corner of it, I never realized how extensive that cave network is and how the different entrances connect. No matter how well I think I know Tyria, hardly a week goes by when I won’t find something new (to me).
When you’re not in the mood for exploration or dynamic events, there’s dungeons to play. They become a lot more fun if you actually play them rather than grind them. Again, they are very replayable, and the more you mix up your experience, the more replay value you will get from them. Try going in there with different groups and strategies, meta fast clears one day, taking somebody new to dungeons through the next day. Have you ever done sightseeing tours of the dungeon paths and explored the out-of-the-way corners? There is so much content there, just waiting to be explored and replayed in a variety of different ways.
Then there’s WvW and sPvP. Lots of replayable content right there at your fingertips. Depending on what server you play on (for WvW) or what kind of matches you prefer (hotjoin vs. queue in sPvP) you’ll get a ton of different experiences. Mix things up for yourself, and you have all the replayable content you want.
stops rambling and looks around confused
Sorry, what was the point of my post again? Ah, yes: This game is actually filled with tons of replayable content. The main problem is that it’s your own decision whether (or how) you utilize that content. Do only one small facet of the game’s content (e.g. currently farming the Silverwastes all day long) and you will quickly get bored of it, even to the point of burn out. Mix things up, and try (again) things you haven’t done (in a while), and you will be surprised at the wealth of replayable content we already have. Of course, more replayable content is always welcome, but currently I fail to see what specific kind of content could fill a niche in this game that is not already filled.
Which brings me back to my initial question(s):
How do you define “replayable content”? And what makes this content you think the game needs different from the replayable content we already have?
Only thing this game needs is replayable content.
How do you define “replayable content”?
stops rambling and looks around confused
Sorry, what was the point of my post again? Ah, yes: This game is actually filled with tons of replayable content. The main problem is that it’s your own decision whether (or how) you utilize that content. Do only one small facet of the game’s content (e.g. currently farming the Silverwastes all day long) and you will quickly get bored of it, even to the point of burn out. Mix things up, and try (again) things you haven’t done (in a while), and you will be surprised at the wealth of replayable content we already have. Of course, more replayable content is always welcome, but currently I fail to see what specific kind of content could fill a niche in this game that is not already filled.Which brings me back to my initial question(s):
How do you define “replayable content”? And what makes this content you think the game needs different from the replayable content we already have?
Replayable content is content that is worth replaying.
As it stands any exp/karma/silver you get for completing any event or quest is not worth it.
This is still an MMO not a single player experience in my eyes. So while running around goallessly and aimlessly is obviously an option. the shineys need to be corresponding to what your doing.
The only way people regardless of playstyle deem doing quests in queensdale is worth it is by simply ignoring the fact they will not get appropriatly rewarded for it. Unless you are infact someone who is new to the experience then any amount of gold is worth it.
In the end an MMO should give the user an endgoal. maybe not endgame, but atleast some extra spurs of motivation to actually finish a quest from start to finish except 1 silver and a bit of copper, per quest chain
Ive ran around tyria for long enough to realise the only content worth replaying is content with appropriate rewards, and in this case the only appropriate reward is infact gold because guildwars 2 runs on gold. Or atleast something epic happening at every quest. instead of ‘kill oozes till time runs out’- ‘get 1 silver’- nothing in the world changes except there might or might not be a followup quest wich eventually just rinses and repeats regardless if you where there at that time or not.
The idea is doing events is not impactfull in the slightest once you play this game long enough. Every event in the end boils down to loot at its core. hence why almost noone actually ‘travels’ tyria but would much wrather just TP around at the ‘profit’ areas. Hence why SW is so crowded yet some random place in ascalon there will literally never be more then 3 people at a time, even with megaservers. And thats not all, once there are those 3 people, they are either AFK, do not understand talking or are just plain simply levelling and dont want to be disturbed.
If i want to immerse myself in gw2 a larger portion of the community should also be immersed. and WP literally negates the entire immersion bit.
I have gone to lengths of waiting 3 hours on a map with a commander tag, JUST to explore around with a party seeking adventure.
In the end the only way to get people with you is to pay them with gold….
When i propposed i wanted to travel to lions arch by foot from DR, people just WP’d there.. absolutely killed all immersion.
So in the end the only replayable content ingame is content that pays. Just look at the SW keyfarm before they patched the numerous chest spawns and after. Before there where aproximatly 10 key-sw servers at all times. after the nerf it died down completely and sometimes one pops up when you are really desperate for it.
Just because i can explore every crook of the map, doesnt, i repeat, doesnt make it meaningfull in the slightest. an eventline with a big world boss ussually does make it meaningfull.
And if we talk about worthwhile content wich is fun and actually pays. the list is short of replayable content.
Also PvP and WvW havnt been updated since release, PvP still only has 1 mode capture 3 points. and WvW capture buildings. not much diversity there either.
Oh and when you try to roam alone on a non roaming class/proffesion, you get ganked 100%. so much for fun.
So what you really want is not replayable content, but repeatable content with a better reward ratio than we currently have?
So what you really want is not replayable content, but repeatable content with a better reward ratio than we currently have?
Well if it would mean the world outside of the farming zones would come alive. sure.
But i do not really understand the difference between replayable and repeatable.
People talking about percentages… go look at the Achievement Points leaderboards. I’m going from my friends and guild lists, which unfortunately don’t feature a nice spread, but it’ll do for a couple of examples.
A player with 3645 AP is in the 90% bracket. That means that fewer than 10% of all players ever got to 3645 AP.
A player with 420 AP is in the 40% bracket. Meaning 40%+ of all players never even got to 420 AP.
Tell me again how “most” players are demanding hardcore content?
I’m not against it, in moderation. But pretending it would be touched by anything other than a small section of the population is ridiculous.
I know some fantastic players who can solo dungeons all day long, and appreciate a real challenge, who have very little AP because most of the content behind APs is pretty lame and unchallenging. Considering a large portion came from LS, tons from WvW and PVP (they do neither), and many more from map completion/jps/collecting stuff, then if all they did was the bare minimum of content to get to lvl 80 and then moved onto the only challenging content in the game, it’s pretty easy to only have 2k or less achievement points.
People talking about percentages… go look at the Achievement Points leaderboards. I’m going from my friends and guild lists, which unfortunately don’t feature a nice spread, but it’ll do for a couple of examples.
A player with 3645 AP is in the 90% bracket. That means that fewer than 10% of all players ever got to 3645 AP.
A player with 420 AP is in the 40% bracket. Meaning 40%+ of all players never even got to 420 AP.
Tell me again how “most” players are demanding hardcore content?
I’m not against it, in moderation. But pretending it would be touched by anything other than a small section of the population is ridiculous.
I know some fantastic players who can solo dungeons all day long, and appreciate a real challenge, who have very little AP because most of the content behind APs is pretty lame and unchallenging. Considering a large portion came from LS, tons from WvW and PVP (they do neither), and many more from map completion/jps/collecting stuff, then if all they did was the bare minimum of content to get to lvl 80 and then moved onto the only challenging content in the game, it’s pretty easy to only have 2k or less achievement points.
I think you forgot to mention that all the sane people who used to play and used to make up a large portion of the player base quit because of no content. so whats left are new people. waiting to realise there is no content they will probably leave aswell.
Doomsday scenario? or already happening…
^Must be the Amish of GW.
Point still stands that they are part of indispensable QoLs every player can but benefit from.
And if you happen to be against them, then you are kindly invited to share some reasonable arguments as to why. I am all eyes.
Pretty sure I didn’t say I was against them. You stated every single person or some such used them. And that you had never met a person that did not. I was just affording you the scintillating experience of doing so. =)
^Must be the Amish of GW.
Point still stands they’re indispensable QoLs every player can but benefit from.No, I had 2 guildies that had no use for templates either. While they had nothing against them, they also had no use for them. They only really played on their main characters and at most ever changed like 2 skills. Really no need for a template in that situation. They also didn’t pvp, at all. So again, no need for the templates.
For some people they were just overkill. For others, they were a godsend. It just depends on how you typically played.
Well, it is the pvp where templates shine most, especially for equipment; but to stick to a single build throughout years feels like one missed a large chunk of the game, one which makes the game so different (better) from the rest.
I now have only 1 pve character and still, you’ll find me swapping builds around almost every time, depending on what zone I enter and the mood (kill vs heal vs mix).
It still refutes your statement that everyone either used them or had something against them if they didn’t.
Templates came late to the game, and short of huge skill nerfs, a lot of people had ‘standard’ builds that they ran and really didn’t need templates. Unless they ran assorted farming builds, or played pvp (as you stated).
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
All I ask is that they diversify their design a bit.
Right now it’s a lot of open world content. I’d love if they would give us something with a little challenge, give me another lupi!
I realize those that want that higher level of challenge are in the minority, but they are still there, giving us a bone every now and then isn’t too much to ask for is it?
Like the Triple Wurm and the Tequatl update you mean?
Or high level fractals with the Mist Instabilities?He specifically mentioned Lupi, so maybe something more along the lines of Liadri? Something to test their individual skill. Like solo/duo farming UW or FoW. Or mission running in GW1. Where individuals could challenge themselves and not necessarily feel ‘dragged down’ by having to do it with a group.
Nothing wrong with wanting some content like that. But there are also those that want group content of similar difficulty. And yet others than want more pvp modes. And others that want more wvw maps, more wvw functionality. Others than want gvg. Others that want new full maps for exploration. Etc
The issue is which gets priority and how many resources can be devoted to it. Most people want everything now, especially considering the game is aging; however, it just doesn’t work that way.
Close lanfear, it is about individual challenge, but that doesn’t necessarily mean solo content.
Fractals would work fine if it weren’t for the dozen or so issues it mainly though the random maps and the fact that they use models so tiny that you cannot see the animations through the effects. Some are great, some are absolutely terrible, and thanks to RNG you don’t get to choose.
As for Teq/Wurm, that takes little to no individual skill to complete, just a mass amount of people and organization. It’s difficult in the same regards that cat herding is difficult.
Lastly though, I’m surprised Lordkrall didn’t try to throw Aetherpath in there too… seems no one actually feels that is content worth talking about. As far as “high level fractals” you mean the ones they took away in that update while promising leaderboards and such and delivering nothing? Are those the ones you’re talking about? Either way it honestly seems like asking for a little love for challenging type content is asking for too much, if players want that, GW2 is not for them after a few months of mastering the little bit they do have in this game.