Guild Wars 2

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I have always said I didn’t like heroes. Having heroes is not the antithesis of good combat in GW1, it merely ruined the cooperative need on GW1.

Well, that’s part of our difference then, because heroes were in the game when I started Guild Wars 1. And there were often not enough players around to do some missions, so you had to use heroes. Later I joined a Guild, but with PVe only skills, much of the content was trivialized.

Sorry to tell you, but you missed the best parts of GW1.

By EOTN a lot of people had left.

Yep, I wish I had found it earlier than I did. And I still loved the game..but I’m not looking at it through the same rose-colored glasses that you did.

On the other hand, I’ve played a dozen MMOs easily. So I can compare Guild Wars 2 to them. Guild Wars 2 is a whole lot more like Guild Wars 1 in playing it than it is like other MMOs.

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I have always said I didn’t like heroes. Having heroes is not the antithesis of good combat in GW1, it merely ruined the cooperative need on GW1.

Well, that’s part of our difference then, because heroes were in the game when I started Guild Wars 1. And there were often not enough players around to do some missions, so you had to use heroes. Later I joined a Guild, but with PVe only skills, much of the content was trivialized.

Sorry to tell you, but you missed the best parts of GW1.

By EOTN a lot of people had left.

Yep, I wish I had found it earlier than I did. And I still loved the game..but I’m not looking at it through the same rose-colored glasses that you did.

On the other hand, I’ve played a dozen MMOs easily. So I can compare Guild Wars 2 to them. Guild Wars 2 is a whole lot more like Guild Wars 1 in playing it than it is like other MMOs.

I don’t doubt that GW2 is better than most, if not all other MMO’s. But, from what GW1 players that played from Prophecies find, is that it lacks a lot of things that made GW1 and ANet different than the rest. I did try a lot of MMO’s and never played for more than a month.

Yes, my glasses are rose colored. I remember the good things more than the bad, because as GW1 got worse, I played less and less.

But, there was a time when in order to get through a mission, you had to pair up with people. But, it wasn’t a problem, because they were everywhere. It was fun and exciting and created a community online unlike ever I have seen before.

The combat was amazing because there was depth and strategy. There were counters to everything. Have you ever played MTG? If you have, you would have seen it in motion with Prophecies. It was as balanced as any game has ever been.

Those are the biggest things that GW1 players are missing that you cannot find in GW2. It just isn’t the same. Yes, I realize its a different game and went a different direction, but literally nothing is similar at all.

Players loved GW1. I will say it again, because it requires emphasis. Players loved GW1. Go on teamquitter.com some time and read it. Not the flaming and the trolling, but the actual conversation around the game. People created life long friendships through a video game. Lots of people.

It was simply one of the most satisfying games for strategy and socializing that I have ever played and that magic is what is lost in GW2. I can’t think of something more rare than what GW1 held in its hands for a couple of years.

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

Vayne.8563:

clay.7849:

I have always said I didn’t like heroes. Having heroes is not the antithesis of good combat in GW1, it merely ruined the cooperative need on GW1.

Well, that’s part of our difference then, because heroes were in the game when I started Guild Wars 1. And there were often not enough players around to do some missions, so you had to use heroes. Later I joined a Guild, but with PVe only skills, much of the content was trivialized.

Sorry to tell you, but you missed the best parts of GW1.

By EOTN a lot of people had left.

Yep, I wish I had found it earlier than I did. And I still loved the game..but I’m not looking at it through the same rose-colored glasses that you did.

On the other hand, I’ve played a dozen MMOs easily. So I can compare Guild Wars 2 to them. Guild Wars 2 is a whole lot more like Guild Wars 1 in playing it than it is like other MMOs.

I don’t doubt that GW2 is better than most, if not all other MMO’s. But, from what GW1 players that played from Prophecies find, is that it lacks a lot of things that made GW1 and ANet different than the rest. I did try a lot of MMO’s and never played for more than a month.

Yes, my glasses are rose colored. I remember the good things more than the bad, because as GW1 got worse, I played less and less.

But you’re also not willing to give Guild Wars 2 the time to grow into something a lot better than it is. Skills WILL be added. Weapons will be added. Traits will be added. Elites will be added.

I was talking to people in my guild today and I thought, when you were a necro, no one used the skill Aura of the Lich until they changed it. After the changed it you either used Aura of the Lich or Discord as a necro. Maybe if you were a rebel, you used Flesh Golem. Again I’m talking PVe here, since I’m not qualified to talk about anything else.

If you were a necro and didn’t have necrosis in your toolbar it was a waste. Because that skill was so OP.

There wasn’t as much build variety when I played as you might think despite the skills. It really was build wars, but so many people just ran the same builds.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game for it’s time. But because it wasn’t an MMO, I don’t compare it to MMOs.

Compared to other MMOs, Guild Wars 2 is a breath of fresh air.

Oh, I play, and I will give it a chance to get better. Really, I float from game to game. I am a casual player. Even in my teens and twenties. There have only been three games in my life that I would consider I played “hardcore”. Counterstrike, Madden Football and GW1.

Vayne, I will say this, and I hope you take it well:

We are probably more alike than different, and the same thing that kitten es you off about me is what kitten es me off about you.

That being said, it’s good to have a nemesis. Conflict is often a good thing.

For your sake, I hope GW2 gets better and better and kicks the trend of MMO’s that don’t live up to expectations. And maybe, just maybe, they can find some of the magic that we had in the early life of GW1 in the process.

They’re taking this game in the same direction as the end of gw1 basically. And we saw how that turned out

ScottBroChill.3254:

They’re taking this game in the same direction as the end of gw1 basically. And we saw how that turned out

Sadly, yes.

clay.7849:

No, seriously, play with just 1 and 6 and you can play the entire game from beginning to end. And, it is objectively bad because of that fact.

It saddens me i have to totally agree with that :/.

As what i mean for “fun”.
I want gw2 to be a tool wich makes it possible to have fun with my friends, as i would expect of an mmo. However gw2 is the kind of game that trows stuff already “fun” out, but because of this not challenging or engaging. An mmo should be a tool to fun, with a little bit of fun itself, but not to much, cause that is something you have friends for.
The most important thing for an mmo is to enable that feeling that you play together, and i’m missing that completely with GW2, not because of my guild, cause i know these people from GW1, and other games, i know we can have fun together, in gw2 however, we aren’t.

clay.7849:

@Tobias
That is true. But, does it constitute making a game around “bad” mechanics over good ones, especially if the band’s first CD was nearly flawless and their second was terrible?

If we’re using analogies? GW1 was hardly “nearly flawless”.

[quote[
Here are a couple “truths” that I think games should try to adhere to, and that GW2 simply ignores.
[/quote]

All good points, but we are seeing problems . . .

. . . people don’t bother learning to dodge, so the Sonic Periscopes mess them up and they complain they’re OP. These are things you can’t just stand and auto-attack 1, mix in 6 now and then, and beat. Similarly, the Molten Alliance events are something you need to be more cautious about taking alone. It can, of course, be done.

. . . people, way back when, complained Ascalonian Catacombs was far too difficult compared to the rest of the game. However, a couple months ago it was so “easy” that it needed to be retuned.

As a game developer . . . you can always expect your players to stick to whatever is the least effort to get through your game. Unless you give them reasons to do it differently. Of course, in the case of MMOs . . . you get the “this is unfair to us casual players, please change it!” posts . . .

So, yes, people may all like grinding, a great treadmill and watered down combat, but I hardly call that a good reason to cater to those people.

The truly sad part is that GW1 attacked these philosophical problems rather well. Not perfectly, but way better than in GW2. GW2 is a step back from GW1 and it’s not because it is different. It is because it is just a worse game with worse mechanics.

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, though, it was a series of instances strung together by open lobbies to group up in. It did that pretty decently, I think, but it was not an MMO.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, though, it was a series of instances strung together by open lobbies to group up in. It did that pretty decently, I think, but it was not an MMO.

I don’t agree with this, and i know that it doesn’t specify as an MMO cause somehow it’s been determined all of the world needs to be open for being and mmo, but i think it’s by far the best version of massive multiplayer online content around that time.

GW2 becomes an “mmo” while loosing the entire multiplayer aspect, wich is more mmo? i say GW1 is, cause not having any decent multiplayer system is worse then not having an open world.

Fox.3469:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, though, it was a series of instances strung together by open lobbies to group up in. It did that pretty decently, I think, but it was not an MMO.

I don’t agree with this, and i know that it doesn’t specify as an MMO cause somehow it’s been determined all of the world needs to be open for being and mmo, but i think it’s by far the best version of massive multiplayer online content around that time.

GW2 becomes an “mmo” while loosing the entire multiplayer aspect, wich is more mmo? i say GW1 is, cause not having any decent multiplayer system is worse then not having an open world.

I should clarify:

Guild Wars: Prophecies was not initially designed as an MMO as we understood it at the time. Guild Wars 2 was meant to be one, with a persistent world outside the cities. This is where a lot of the friction comes in.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fox.3469:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, though, it was a series of instances strung together by open lobbies to group up in. It did that pretty decently, I think, but it was not an MMO.

I don’t agree with this, and i know that it doesn’t specify as an MMO cause somehow it’s been determined all of the world needs to be open for being and mmo, but i think it’s by far the best version of massive multiplayer online content around that time.

GW2 becomes an “mmo” while loosing the entire multiplayer aspect, wich is more mmo? i say GW1 is, cause not having any decent multiplayer system is worse then not having an open world.

I should clarify:

Guild Wars: Prophecies was not initially designed as an MMO as we understood it at the time. Guild Wars 2 was meant to be one, with a persistent world outside the cities. This is where a lot of the friction comes in.

It’s only friction if you use it to say you can’t compare the two games. Clearly, there are things in GW1 that could have been in GW2 and still had the difference between CORPG and MMORPG remain intact.

clay.7849:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fox.3469:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

GW1 wasn’t an MMO, though, it was a series of instances strung together by open lobbies to group up in. It did that pretty decently, I think, but it was not an MMO.

I don’t agree with this, and i know that it doesn’t specify as an MMO cause somehow it’s been determined all of the world needs to be open for being and mmo, but i think it’s by far the best version of massive multiplayer online content around that time.

GW2 becomes an “mmo” while loosing the entire multiplayer aspect, wich is more mmo? i say GW1 is, cause not having any decent multiplayer system is worse then not having an open world.

I should clarify:

Guild Wars: Prophecies was not initially designed as an MMO as we understood it at the time. Guild Wars 2 was meant to be one, with a persistent world outside the cities. This is where a lot of the friction comes in.

It’s only friction if you use it to say you can’t compare the two games. Clearly, there are things in GW1 that could have been in GW2 and still had the difference between CORPG and MMORPG remain intact.

Sorry, I’m distracted trying to get ready for my shift with a very uncooperative car at the moment, so I should have been more clear:

“The friction between manifesto and reality”.