Guild Wars 2

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

It’s far from wrong for a customer to express disappointment or concern over his purchase. There is a very right way of expressing it, though, and sadly most have a hard time with it.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Bye Vayne. Not talking in circles with you. I’ll just go get my geritol, plug in some Matlock reruns, redye my hair blue and listen to Cab Calloway on my Victrola. After that, Ill play some Pong or Checkers. Im too old to comment on vidya games I reckon.

I’m probably as old as you…I just didn’t get into the early MMOs because I never had time for them while I was working. I’m retired now, and I have more time to play. I know I’d have loved EQ if I’d had the time to invest into it, but I also knew it would have probably hurt other real life interests I had at the time.

It’s not that you’re too old, but if you really think UO is significant when discussing today’s MMOs, I don’t really know what to tell you. It’s an old game, that would never survive today. It was too free-form. Too niche. It didn’t lead people around by the nose enough.

And you know, I really don’t want to be led around by the nose. I find it frustrating. But I acknowledge that today’s gamers aren’t going to devote to one game and stay there. It’s not happening and I think Anet knows that.

They want to play 20 games…30 games. So they won’t stay with one game long enough to think about where to go or what to do. It’s much easier to run to Dulfy or the wiki and run through content.

It’s a different world. Trying to make an intelligent game that doesn’t lead you around by the nose today, with the budgetary requirements of today’s games, would be really really hard. The risk involved almost guarantees it would have to be an independent game.

You know, I agree with much of this, to my shock. UO is important simply because UO proved it could be done. WoW took UO and EQ and dumbed them, to the market you describe. That LCD process continues to the detriment, IMO, of all MMOs.

I think they are forgetting that the generations that played pong, played space invaders, bought atari consoles and shoved coins into Video games are getting to that retirement age. I don’t want to play bingo, do sing a longs with the piano, or any of that stuff considered to be “my age”. I want to play MMOs, be thoughtfully challenged, have a complex persistent world. I guess perhaps, we aren’t the generation that they want, although we are the one that paved the way. I suppose thats why some cling to the older games, Everquest, etc, just not happy with the spoon feeding.

I will see what happens to EverquestNext. They claim to be returning to their Everquest roots, with a lot of new bells and whistles. Be interesting to see how that works for them.

I like ANET, I really do. I can live with the mechanics of the game, live without particle sliders, extensive graphics customization, a lot of things I took for granted in older games. But.. I don’t know how long I can deal with the new content. To me, it does not live up to their own standards they have set in the past. It seems far too shallow, to me.

Our main disagreement is I don’t see real, indepth, quality innovation, from any producer. I do see improvements, adaptations, quality changes, ease of movement, etc. I see Innovation in how “kill ten rats” is presented, but it remains “kill ten rats” and that is where I am not really seeing huge strides from UO -WOW- today. For me, the “kill ten rats” is the repetition.. over and over and over.. not ten rats in a quest but more oh god.. the wolfmaster… again.. and he has become fodder in a “kill 10 rats” achievement daily.. quest.

Its like the new stuff. Wow, new stuff, fun stuff, different stuff. Now.. just do it another 35 times. or more. That just smacks it back to rat grinding for me.

We will always disagree, but I do feel much the same as you in the above quote.

I don’t think we disagree as much as you think. The difference between is seems to be one of acceptances. I completely accept I’m not typical and that games cost to much to be made just for me.

They just cost too much to make.

I was in publishing and the same thing is true with the traditional publishing model. Why another celebrity cookbook? Because someone buys them. I’m not one of them.

The same thing is true of games. You have to appeal to the lowest common denominator 90% of the time…particularly with something as expensive as an MMO.

Smith.1826:

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

It’s far from wrong for a customer to express disappointment or concern over his purchase. There is a very right way of expressing it, though, and sadly most have a hard time with it.

I think, in this case, the customer (us) have a greater right to express disappointment and concern about the direction of the game, because, for many of us, the cost is ongoing.

ArenaNet has received about 75% of my gaming dollar since I started playing in October. Assuming that ArenaNet like my continued support and wants to continue to receive the vast majority of my gaming budget it’s more than reasonable for me to discuss things that I see as concerning. Things that, if left unchecked, I believe will cause me to take my business elsewhere.

Otherwise, if no one provides feedback, someday ArenaNet may be left with a lot less income and wondering where all the people went.

That said, most of the game is awesome. The parts that aren’t, I understand why they aren’t even if I disagree.

tl;dr: This isn’t a book I purchased, a movie, or even a stand alone game, even without a subscription I have an ongoing consumer relationship with ANet; I give then a semi-regular income and consequently I am entitled to provide feedback and critique.

Im Mudbone.1437:

I give a thanks to ANET when a thank you is warranted but not when its not.

Well theres that, and the fact that if we aren’t complaining about something, that generally means we like it, or at least don’t have a problem with it.

People only go to the forums to complain. My friend got mad at me cause we always argue, and she felt we never agreed on anything. I told her we agree on tons of things, but since we agree on them, we never talk about them, and just argue about what we dont. Though I hate when people are like “If this doesnt change, then everything else which is fine is ruined”. Go, leave, bye.

Thanks is great and all, but is not very productive. I am very grateful for this game and play it often (Thanks Anet!).

However, if I tell ANet thanks, they get a nice pat on the back. If I tell ANet how I think the game can be done even better, then they have actual feedback to work on. This helps them make their game even better.

There are also some positive threads that pop up which give feedback. i.e. Great job on the new cinematics! etc

Galen Grey.4709:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

@Galen Grey
snip…

Part 2

“Freedom of Choice. Again, SWG pre NGE. No professions, only skills. " I dont know about this, never played SWG as I said before. But a little searching disagrees with what you’re saying. according to this:
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Professions_
There were not only professions that had distinct skills Commando has no access to healing skill trees which medic does. But within each class there are also specializations.

You missed the very first line on that page:

“In Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided you must have a profession and you can have as many as your skill points allow you to have”

I will reply to this, basically because you totally misunderstand it. Yes, those are the list of professions. From which you could choose skill based hybrids, by using skill points. Jedi was an unlocked, separate char.

My main was a Master Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer with a bit of Ranger.
One character was a Master Dancer/Tailor/Creature Handler
A good friend was a Master Carbineer/Doctor/Creature Handler.
Combat “medic” was rarely a medic..they rarely took the full heal line. Poison tossers, usually with other combat professions mixed.
Doctors were.. by and large, craftsmen. Worth far more making buffs and heal packs than healing in combat. TBH most Doctors were Doctor/Rifleman to harvest their own buffpack components.
People were largely self sufficient re heals, with stimpacks and pre applied buffs.. There were no roles until CU tried to scab them in, and no “dedicated” anything.
32 professions.. and the ability to hybridize your build to be a mix of any of them, using your skill points.

If your theoretical Commando wanted heal skills, they could put points into a healing profession skill tree.

That is freedom.
But its not important. People didn’t like freedom. They didn’t like not being told where to go, what to be, what to do in combat. We won’t ever see that level of freedom in an MMO again, and that includes this game. We wont see the freedom of personal customization again either, as the game was a database monster, rarely did you find even two people with the same mix of professions, armor stats, weapons stats, and buffs, full body customization.. all being wildly variable according to each player. Perhaps, far in the future, we may, but I kind of doubt it.

I feel a bit for people who did not experience pre WoW MMOs. Wows success homogenized the entire industry, with old games scrambling to be a bit more WoW, and new games trying to out WoW Wow. For example, SWG, post WoW, became a structured 8 class game with roles, defined Quest paths, Trinity, and generally required little player thought. WoW became the success benchmark, and niche mmo gaming died, with the exception of EVE. I guess thats why I was so fond of GW1, even though technically a CORPG, it was different enough from WoW to be fresh and unique in a lot of ways.

Bottom line is, today, in this industry, if you can play WoW you can jump into any MMO offered, Save Eve, and play with little to no adjustment and that also includes GW2. The benchmark has changed, since WoW games have tried to be enough different than WoW to attract those in need of change.. and yet similar enough to WoW to attract the demographic that made WoW such a huge financial success.

For example, take 2 futuristic space games. STO and Eve. If you have only played WoW, you will jump into STO with very little shock, there isn’t much difference. Put that WoW player into EVE, and they will be gibbering, curled up in a fetal ball. EVE is very Niche, with possibly the hardest learning curve left online.

GW2 is possibly the best of the current batch.. working within those restraints. I have to say, however, I do not think it is the best the industry, or ANET, is capable of creating. Developers are not striving to be as innovative or original as they could be, faced with the possibility of financial failure.. and the 500lb gorilla of WoWs financial success looming large in the room.

Already , in this game, we see the creep. Bits of Vertical Progression. Bits of Gear gated content. (agony). We see the possibility of Raiding. Level Cap increases. Only a year, and the manifesto is crumbling, not much, but bit by bit. The demographic that expects those things is huge, and will be catered to. It is just economics.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Galen Grey.4709:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

@Galen Grey
snip…

Part 2

“Freedom of Choice. Again, SWG pre NGE. No professions, only skills. " I dont know about this, never played SWG as I said before. But a little searching disagrees with what you’re saying. according to this:
http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Professions_
There were not only professions that had distinct skills Commando has no access to healing skill trees which medic does. But within each class there are also specializations.

You missed the very first line on that page:

“In Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided you must have a profession and you can have as many as your skill points allow you to have”

I will reply to this, basically because you totally misunderstand it. Yes, those are the list of professions. From which you could choose skill based hybrids, by using skill points. Jedi was an unlocked, separate char.

My main was a Master Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer with a bit of Ranger.
One character was a Master Dancer/Tailor/Creature Handler
A good friend was a Master Carbineer/Doctor/Creature Handler.
Combat “medic” was rarely a medic..they rarely took the full heal line. Poison tossers, usually with other combat professions mixed.
Doctors were.. by and large, craftsmen. Worth far more making buffs and heal packs than healing in combat.
People were self sufficient re heals, with stimpacks and pre applied buffs.. There were no roles until CU, and no “dedicated” anything.
32 professions.. and the ability to hybridize your build to be a mix of any of them, using your skill points.

If your theoretical Commando wanted heal skills, they could put points into a healing profession skill tree.

That is freedom.
But its not important. People didn’t like freedom. They didn’t like not being told where to go, what to be, what to do in combat. We won’t ever see that level of freedom in an MMO again, and that includes this game.

What freedom is guild wars 2 lacking in terms of abilities? As for SWG so if I am understanding you correctly, you had 32 profession with their own skill tree but you were free to put in points in any tree even if you arent part of that profession. A few questions. Why have professions then if those dont dictate which trees you have access to are or is it something like say runes of magic where you can choose up to 3 professions and gain access only to the skills of those 3?

@ Galen Grey

I had wanted to, theoretically, I could have put points into all 32 professions, but would have been good at none. You have to think way out of the current MMO Box.. waaaay out. Also, some prof trees were required for others. TBH I don’t know how many professions could be done with 250 points.

A bit of ancient history http://www.swgcharacterbuilder.com/swg-cb.php?prof_id=5

My Master Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer was actually a Marksman/Scout/Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer.. Elements of 5 different professions. And another player, with elements of the same 5, could be totally different than mine depending on skill trees learned.

OK, here we go. One sec… ok, ready.

ANet… Thanks. You are the wind beneath my shattered dragon wings.

See? Even I couldn’t stop with thanks. But… I really do appreciate the work going into this great game. It’s been great fun so far with no sign of slowing down.

It’s so much easier to complain than praise, that’s human nature (or else modern western culture nature). There have been things to complain about, indeed (slight dig here at that accursed dull grey emote text). But this is not that thread.

I have a friend who is a writer on ESO and has worked on two other MMOs before. I’ve heard his stories over the years. The amount of unwarranted bile tossed at any game design can embitter the nicest of people working heart and soul on making something good and fun. A few words of thanks can lighten their day or week tremendously.

So thank you ArenaNet. Thank you for making a game that isn’t perfect but is trying. A game that so exactly matches everything I’ve ever wanted in an MMO that I can’t stand playing anything else now. Thank you for caring about your product and having fun making it fun for us. Thank you for listening to us; I’m well aware you see a whole lot more of what we write than some believe thanks to the necessity that you not reply to most of it.

Thank you for creativity, artistry, and excellence. Thank you for continuing to adjust the game to match external feedback and internal analysis. Thank you for holding to your vision as best you can and giving us a game that has at least this player still solidly hooked after well over a year.

Thank you.

nacario.9417:

@OP

I understand what you mean. At the same time Im reminding you that GW2 isnt perfect, we live in a total new era than UO years where people now expect more. I for instance dont understand why there arnt multi-trait specs that you can save for different situation.
Without the constant negativity or feedback, devs wont always be on their toes. And as you said, you’re 41 years old, the youngsters might not be into what old grams prefer. That is the beauty of it, we all want different things, but it is hard to fulfill every heart. GW2 is indeed the better MMORPG out there, but keeping it like that is a constant adventure in todays market.

:) /agreed

TooBz.3065:

Smith.1826:

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

It’s far from wrong for a customer to express disappointment or concern over his purchase. There is a very right way of expressing it, though, and sadly most have a hard time with it.

I think, in this case, the customer (us) have a greater right to express disappointment and concern about the direction of the game, because, for many of us, the cost is ongoing.

ArenaNet has received about 75% of my gaming dollar since I started playing in October. Assuming that ArenaNet like my continued support and wants to continue to receive the vast majority of my gaming budget it’s more than reasonable for me to discuss things that I see as concerning. Things that, if left unchecked, I believe will cause me to take my business elsewhere.

Otherwise, if no one provides feedback, someday ArenaNet may be left with a lot less income and wondering where all the people went.

That said, most of the game is awesome. The parts that aren’t, I understand why they aren’t even if I disagree.

tl;dr: This isn’t a book I purchased, a movie, or even a stand alone game, even without a subscription I have an ongoing consumer relationship with ANet; I give then a semi-regular income and consequently I am entitled to provide feedback and critique.

Not really the point of my post
Im tired of people kittening and I know it will continue….
Just give the guys some props….

Smith.1826:

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

It’s far from wrong for a customer to express disappointment or concern over his purchase. There is a very right way of expressing it, though, and sadly most have a hard time with it.

agrees

Vayne.8563:

OP, I really enjoy this game. I love the new content. You’re right. No MMO has ever done what Anet is doing. Some people like it, some people don’t.

I’m pretty sure those that like it spend more time in game than on the forums.

Again… I agree

KingClash.3186:

LordByron.8369:

KingClash.3186:

Better question, is it possible for these weeds to stop sprouting up and trying to cause unnecessary drama for no reason?

you are on a forum.

Labeling feedback you don t like, drama and just accepting compliments its not much democratic nor useful.

Gather feedback, see the reasons behind things and see if they are acceptable or baseless trolling.

You can even ignore the part “i like/dislike this….” and just read the part “because XYZ”

But just saying if you don t agree with me you are a whiner is just useless and unrespectful.

My post was directed towards the OP >.>

Towards me? Really? Your wanting what to ‘what’ to stop sprouting up? For people to thank Anet? I would have to question your age or intellect…
You decide.

Galen Grey.4709:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

OP, I really enjoy this game. I love the new content. You’re right. No MMO has ever done what Anet is doing. Some people like it, some people don’t.

I’m pretty sure those that like it spend more time in game than on the forums.

Enumerate just what GW2 has done, that hasn’t been done before. There isn’t much.

Again Vayne, I question your overall knowledge of the genre.

GW1 is unique. GW2 is everymmo stuffed into a very artistic package.

Interesting statement. Let me see now, John Smedley, CEO of SOE, said “people who like the new game are playing it, and not on the forums” … when NGE lost a ton of subcriptions to SWG and forced them to refund the cost of an expansion to anyone that asked for it. That statement has been made too much, and means nothing.

GW2 is a good game. Or, not so good, depending on your tastes. It is not the be-all, end-all of gaming.

As far as thanking them? They provide a service I paid for. So does my garbage company, my power company, my IP provider, etc. I don’t “thank” them unless they address an issue for me. I’ll thank ANET customer service if they do the same.

I can name a lot of things Gw2 has done that other games have no.

A Living breathing world that actually changes in meaningful ways. No other MMO that I am aware of has questing in which NPCs involved in those quests act out the story they’re part off. Take the Harathi Hinterlands as a prime example of this. together with the NPCs involved you can literally push the centaurs out and take control of the entire map. Many outpost can literally change hands and you actual see it happen, you’re part of it. That content is like a major part of the game at least 80% of it so that alone is a lot. but there is more.

Freedom of choice. if you got a goal. Legendary, Exotic Armor , Exotic weapon etc.. you’re free to go about it as you wish. You can engage in events, craft, do dungeons, engage in PvP, Explore, Level up Alts. do dailies whatever… you can then use whatever you earn from any of those activities and use it to you get your chosen reward. Most MMOs the prestige things like a legendary weapon can only be gotten by repeating high level raids that to get to you need to finish other raids forcing you to repeat the same content essentially.

Meaningful Exploration, thats also missing from most MMOs… I mean even little things like coming across a well hidden quagen who’s like surprised to see and wonders how you found his secret spot!

New content to play every 2 weeks

A ton of Mini games all the time

the Living story, I think Acheron’s call might have had this to be fully honest (never played it myself) but anyhow its still extremely rare to have a progressive story that changes things in its wake and evolves.

A combat system that allows you to react to the situation without artificially limiting you a specific role. I love the fact you can properly address a situation. I am safe right now and my team is safe so I will focus on damaging the enemy. My team has aggro but I am safe, I will focus on supporting them. a team member is about to die so I will focus on interrupting his attacker to allow them to escape. I am in trouble so I will now act to ensure my survival etc… etc.. In most other MMOs you have a specific role and no matter what situation you’re in that all you can do. You’re a dps and you team mate is in peril? too bad you cant support them you can only dps.

I could go on but there is a 5k character limit.

smiles
I’m sure they loved reading you say all that… And thanks for doing so!!!

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Those who live in the past don’t necessarily know more than those that live in the present.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Most senior developers remember the past quite well which is why MMOs are beginning to learn from past mistakes. They are also making new mistakes which the new generation of developers as well as senior developers can learn from and not repeat or refine and improve from.

I still think GW2 is currently the best PC game on the market (that’s right I said best game, not just best MMO), sure it has a few issues, some things I don’t particularly like and other things I believe could be done better but I still think it is the best game available at this moment in time.

kossman.8206:

im 41 years old… Alot of you grew up with Ultima Online etc… It just shocks me how you have the best MMO out there….. hands down – and not only that.. you have the DEV’s actually listening to us…

Don’t give me crap about how when you feel it’s warranted…

Yes they want to hear what we think… But the majority of the norm seems to be how people are kittening….

Go pay for a game I say…. There’s tons out there…

Whatever anyone says.. This is….. The next generation MMO that others will base their game upon… Others are doing it now….

I don’t care if you kitten….

Just give these people a reason to continue to do what they do best….

And that is nothing more than a thank you and your reason why…..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Am I a fanboi??? I guess am….
Because I haven’t ever seen a company do what they do with a MMO….

And NEITHER HAVE ANY OF YOU!!!

Sheesh people… kitten at me if you want…. But Anet deserves our thanks more than our kittenes for what they have done for the MMO industry….

We have waited how many years for this game to come out?

And don’t give me that crap about how ‘you complain’ so thakittens better….
I understand constructive criticism.

C’mon guys…..

They deserve better than this…. And you know they read this stuff.
For real…. You peops sometimes amaze me. With all the negativity it would be hard pressed for me to stay positive if I worked for Anet. So ungrateful with more negative to say than positive.

flame on

I agree with you on 100%
Anet really are doing great job and i’m really thankful at what they are doing.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

@Galen Grey

Fine, Ill bite.

Dynamic “Events”. SWG. Galactic Civil War, for years, players, and players only, controlled who owned what, access to cities, planetary control, what NPCs spawned where.. and it never reset. Players had to change things, and they stayed changed till other players undid it. Right until the end. And each server was different. Mine was actually won by the Empire.. one of the few. SWG was also dynamic in that originally, nearly all pvp was centered upon Player created fortresses. You popped a base in rebel territory, and it was there until they took it from you. I base I placed lasted 2 years. (pre NGE)

Everquest 2. World Events. Players permantly changed the game. We did events to add a playble race, add griffen stations, add wizard portals, add guild halls,add travel to other continents, and the world changed permanently. Test Server did not have Froglok race for many years, they did not have the population to do the event to unlock the race.

Dynamic, to me, is not a repeatable kill ten rats event that resets on a timer, sorry.

Freedom of Choice. Again, SWG pre NGE. No professions, only skills. Most players were combinations of 3 or more “professions”. There was no trinity either. No combat roles. You could spec in so many different ways. Crafting..totally custom. You set the specs on what you produced. Or, the customer did. There were no “questlines” or paths, you decided. Your “personal” story was what YOU chose to do.

Meaningful exploration? Go to point A and get a checkbox ticked? Meaningful exploration is up to the explorer. There are easter eggs in every game, map uncovering, rewards. I will grant that ANET did do the checkoff style with chest rewards. And again, going back to SWG.. in 2003 they had exploration that was not a point marked on a map. You found them by accident, and they led to titles. (later they did appease the wowcrowd by adding markers for them)

Weapons? In SWG the best weapons possible were made by players. Period. Some comps were rare drops, but if you wanted the best, you NEVER had to enter any dungeon. In fact, there were very few of those.

Vanguard.. choice. I can craft them, I can instance them. Same with EQ2, my chars are full fabled with either crafted, or token armor I earned soloing.

Living story.. again, Everquests, SWG. Pretty living when players band together, as a server, to permanently change that server.

Minigames. pretty common. Most holidays are full of them. In Vanguard, the Diplomacy minigame is a full fledge profession of its own, you level in it, and you can leverage buffs that effect entire towns and persist beyond them.

Temp content every 2 weeks. Yup.. thats new. yet to be seen how it will play out.

Same with your commentary re combat. I don’t see what you see here, and I think it is player perception. I do not see the flexibility here to do what you listed. Ill give you that one, but I dont buy it as new.. since I played PRE NGE swg with no classes or “roles” at all.

But this wall of text means nothing. Really. You like GW2 or you don’t. I just get a bit tired of the claims of “no game ever before”. That is just flat out wrong and is claimed far too much, Not by ANET, but by fans.

Love the game. Don’t put it on an altar and worship it.

Adding to this: Ultima Online had ongoing GM-run story arcs (basically Living Story ‘99) that employed real consequences. One of the best instances was when Yew (a heavily forested town and important to the lore at large) was attacked by a massive influx of diseased creatures and other nefarious things. On some servers, the player base managed to save Yew from its destruction, while others weren’t so lucky: to this day, 10-13 years later, some Yew “instances” are poisoned swamps teeming with difficult encounters. Instead of RNG boxes and pressing [F], the thrill of the content came from shaping the world and having a real impact on the game and the overarching storyline. If GW2 could integrate something like this into its Living Story system, we old timers would have a surefire winner. Unfortunately, though, consequences haven’t been in PC RPGs for a very long time.

Then again, UO was a game made for roleplayers whereas modern MMOs are about looking cool, following yellow arrows, and filling bars, so there’s a different (practically non-existent) audience for real dynamic play.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

@ Galen Grey

I had wanted to, theoretically, I could have put points into all 32 professions, but would have been good at none. You have to think way out of the current MMO Box.. waaaay out. Also, some prof trees were required for others. TBH I don’t know how many professions could be done with 250 points.

A bit of ancient history http://www.swgcharacterbuilder.com/swg-cb.php?prof_id=5

My Master Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer was actually a Marksman/Scout/Carbineer/Bounty Hunter/Pistoleer.. Elements of 5 different professions. And another player, with elements of the same 5, could be totally different than mine depending on skill trees learned.

Okey I understand now, so you had 250 points that you could allocate between everything. Also you dont need to look that far out, there are MMOs that still use that skill system. Mostly they’re sandboxes too, you got fallen earth and to a degree even eve online (though eve online has an unlimited number of skill points in a way)

Anyhow back on the subject this system is great much better then what most others MMO provide by locking you in roles no doubt. I do regret never getting around to play it before it closed down. But anyhow these kind of systems in my experience are more about flexibility in customization rather then flexibility in execution. Its a bit like gw1. In gw1 no matter what class you choose you have skills that allow you to do anything really but because you’re limited on the number of skills you can choose at any point in time you can only do a subset of what is possible. I dont know how much that was an issue with SWG. Not saying it was bad, I love gw1 and enjoy fallen earth too. But to me Gw2 offers a lot more freedom in executing combat. In a way if i had to describe it gw2 combat feels like gw1 where you had access to all your skills at any time. It feels that instead of planning out the deck before I go into battle its just deciding on the fly on which cards are best to play in a situation. Gw2 so far is the only game that gave me that feeling. In everything else I played there was always that situation when you think hmm that skill would be perfect right about now too bad i didnt pick it.

Makai.3429:

Adding to this: Ultima Online had ongoing GM-run story arcs (basically Living Story ‘99) that employed real consequences. One of the best instances was when Yew (a heavily forested town and important to the lore at large) was attacked by a massive influx of diseased creatures and other nefarious things. On some servers, the player base managed to save Yew from its destruction, while others weren’t so lucky: to this day, 10-13 years later, some Yew “instances” are poisoned swamps teeming with difficult encounters. Instead of RNG boxes and pressing [F], the thrill of the content came from shaping the world and having a real impact on the game and the overarching storyline. If GW2 could integrate something like this into its Living Story system, we old timers would have a surefire winner. Unfortunately, though, consequences haven’t been in PC RPGs for a very long time.

Then again, UO was a game made for roleplayers whereas modern MMOs are about looking cool, following yellow arrows, and filling bars, so there’s a different (practically non-existent) audience for real dynamic play.

Its the sandbox vs theme park story in the end. A game thats player driven will always feel more real for obvious reason. It also encourages players to be creative. I mean stories like the guy who tried to ransom a town by multiplying slimes in his home and unleashing them on the world when his demands were not met? thats amazingly cool. in a theme park though you just need more control because you need events to follow your overall story. Thats put in certain limitations no doubt about that.

No game can ever be everything and certain games compliment each other. I love gw2 but I am really curious to see what everquest next will come up with. With their acquisition of storybricks I have high hopes of a game that finally introduces meaningful interaction with NPCs. (shroud of the avatar seems to be doing this too) thats something I have been wishing for quite a while.

I agree with the sentiment of saying something positive amongst the sea of whinging “criticism” (ok granted some of it is constructive, but you have to admit a lot of it really isn’t)
I appreciate the hard work that has gone into this game. I keep coming back to it, the graphics are really lovely and I’ve had lots of fun with my guildies, made some good friends out of it. They are doing a good job of bringing in fresh stuff all the time and they must be doing something right because we’re still playing.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Those who live in the past don’t necessarily know more than those that live in the present.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

. . . you mean I’d have to play Ultima Online again? The Realm? Meridian 59? EverQuest?

Oh gods, no . . . not again. Losing a weekend camping for the Flowing Black Silk Sash or whatever vaunted piece of equipment there is this expansion. Having this awesome house location and being afraid to step out my door lest someone kill me from stealth on the doorstep. Really really bad balance. Really bad balance AND PvP anywhere. Really bad balance, PvP anywhere, and DIALUP . . .

I will say thanks, the day they give us Cantha!

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

gennyt.3428:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

You’re confusing people with a company. A company isn’t a sentient being….but people are. People work kitten content, and many of them are artists. I’ve written and sold things before. Just because I’ve sold something, does that mean I have no feelings about it? Does that mean that I don’t hurt if I get a negative review?

It’s easy to see a company as an inanimate object, but people who makes games like Guild Wars 2, they’re coders and artists and writers. Many of them put their heart and soul into creating the game we play.

Anet is in business to make money, but the company is comprised of hard-working individuals, some of whom we know for a fact go above and beyond the call of duty (such as Kristen Perry redesigning the Sylvari on her own time).

^^^^

Most of the stuff they added after launch was lacklustre and not exactly something to be super proud of. The SAB was the only exception and that was temporary.

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

I was wondering: Do you clap when the plane you’re on lands successfully?

Vayne.8563:

gennyt.3428:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

You’re confusing people with a company. A company isn’t a sentient being….but people are. People work kitten content, and many of them are artists. I’ve written and sold things before. Just because I’ve sold something, does that mean I have no feelings about it? Does that mean that I don’t hurt if I get a negative review?

It’s easy to see a company as an inanimate object, but people who makes games like Guild Wars 2, they’re coders and artists and writers. Many of them put their heart and soul into creating the game we play.

Anet is in business to make money, but the company is comprised of hard-working individuals, some of whom we know for a fact go above and beyond the call of duty (such as Kristen Perry redesigning the Sylvari on her own time).

Nice little condescending story, complete with assumptions about me having little to no clue about being creative and putting one’s work out there for the world to judge. Negative feedback is just something you have to suck up and deal with (but I digress because this is about Anet as a unit and not their employees personal feelings and emotions).

People who paid for the game, invested time and probably even more money via the gem shop voice their gripes when they feel Anet has kittened up and so what? They can, and quite frankly I think they should(some probably don’t express it nicely) And as I said, the happy people are playing the game and spending money and getting their friends and family to play, that is their thanks. Once again, what did the OP expect to find here?

They already get paid for the things they are doing.

gennyt.3428:

Vayne.8563:

gennyt.3428:

I don’t even understand the point of this thread. Anet isn’t doing anyone any favors, they’re operating a business. The lack of a subscription isn’t out of the kindness of their hearts, they “continue to do what they do” because it makes them money so cut the kitten already. The happy people are playing the game, what did you really expect to find on these forums? To put it bluntly, you’re whining about people whining.

You’re confusing people with a company. A company isn’t a sentient being….but people are. People work kitten content, and many of them are artists. I’ve written and sold things before. Just because I’ve sold something, does that mean I have no feelings about it? Does that mean that I don’t hurt if I get a negative review?

It’s easy to see a company as an inanimate object, but people who makes games like Guild Wars 2, they’re coders and artists and writers. Many of them put their heart and soul into creating the game we play.

Anet is in business to make money, but the company is comprised of hard-working individuals, some of whom we know for a fact go above and beyond the call of duty (such as Kristen Perry redesigning the Sylvari on her own time).

Nice little condescending story, complete with assumptions about me having little to no clue about being creative and putting one’s work out there for the world to judge. Negative feedback is just something you have to suck up and deal with (but I digress because this is about Anet as a unit and not their employees personal feelings and emotions).

People who paid for the game, invested time and probably even more money via the gem shop voice their gripes when they feel Anet has kittened up and so what? They can, and quite frankly I think they should(some probably don’t express it nicely) And as I said, the happy people are playing the game and spending money and getting their friends and family to play, that is their thanks. Once again, what did the OP expect to find here?

Of course you deal with constructive criticism. It doesn’t mean you can’t say thank you to someone who produces something you enjoy. These things are NOT mutually exclusive.

You may call it condescending, but even when I review books I never say…this book bites. I keep the criticism constructive. I keep the language neutral. It doesn’t detract from my points.

No one says you HAVE TO say thank you, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with it. And when you do criticize, no one says you have to word things in the most offensive or obnoxious way possible. But many people doesn’t seem to realize this.

I’m with you Kossman.

I am really, really enjoying this game. I play it more than anything else I have had in years. In a sea of games that I buy, then barely play because I get bored or am just not interested in, this game offers more for me than any other.

We all know it’s not perfect, but I don’t care. It works great for me. And I agree that the Devs seem to go out of their way to do the best they reasonably can.

And Living story is freakin’ brilliant. New content every 2 weeks, even if it’s something I just play for a bit then move on from is WAY better than nothing new for 6 months to a year at a time.

The amount of things added since release (not even a year ago, remember) is incredible.

Thanks for the game guys, and keep keeping on.

So long, and thanks for the kittens.

I say thanks in the most important way… I buy gems every month to help support the game and to make my play experience even better. Since there is no monthly fee for GW2, I feel like it’s the least I can do to support a game I enjoy so much.

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

lol, best MMO…

rchu.8945:

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

lol, best MMO…

Since best is an opinion, yeah…for many of us it’s the best MMO. For me, it’s the only MMO I could stomach for more than three or four months at a clip.

I also question whether the title of "The best MMO " is really that great a title. It’s like saying the best Zynga game.

This is probably the best MMO out there, but that doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be better. When something makes you want to scream in frustration, first it’s not good for you, and second, you are actually doing ANet a favor by letting them know.

After all, otherwise you eventually post an I Quit post that ends up in the trash.

I know everyone on the forums is quick to tell people to leave and never come back “maybe this isn’t the game for you” is a popular post. But if everyone who had issues with the game left there would be a very very thin population. Instead, some of us try to work within the system, posting our thoughts and recommendations, instead of quitting in a huff.

That said, Thank you Anet for making a really good game. Please make it better. (And try not to make it worse)

Kossman, I wrote a similar thread like u a while ago – but u have managed to put Words on it much better that I did! I totally agree with u! This game is truly AWSOME and the Devs really deserve a BIG Thank U for all they do for us…. Fixing, balanceng, adding new content, listening to the community and do what we ask (wich is huge amounts and far from all times even realistic wishes)….

The wining and the requests is sometimes outrageous here sadly… Many tend to wine fírst and Think later… The other way around would be much better. And… Bring up things on the forum that is really needed. If we stay serious an leave out all the (often not so good or funny) jokes it would be so much easier for the Devs to see things more clearly and also fix what really needs to be fixed.

Look forward – many ask for things that were in GW1… This is not GW1… It’s GW2, Tyria 250 yrs later… NEW things will happen, not old….

Do the devs a favor – be kind to each other even if u diagree with others (kut the rudeness), give only constructive chritisism and take away your request from this forum if it’s fixed (delete old posts that doesn’t need to be here any more), ask only for things that are actually realistic (wich means -Think a Little Before u ask for something).

And… Say “Thank U” sometimes! I know many of u do but more of us can do that. What if U were a Dev and ALL u got was complaints and unrealistic wishes (despite doing an awsome job)…..?

Arimahn.3568:

^^^^

Most of the stuff they added after launch was lacklustre and not exactly something to be super proud of. The SAB was the only exception and that was temporary.

kossman.8206:

So tired of reading all the kittening about.. how this sucks.. or I want this… Or do this.. Or do that…. Can’t you people appreciate the fact that your playing the best MMO out there?

I can understand the fact that you want them to excel….

But really?

Can you people say thanks? Is it that flippin hard?

Just Sayin…..

That is all….

I was wondering: Do you clap when the plane you’re on lands successfully?

Actually if you’ve ever been on a particularly difficult flight (massive turbulance, difficult landing etc) you DO clap the pilot …
Assuming you have a job, do you not feel good when someone just thanks you for it? you’re not doing your job as a favour, you’re doing it to get paid but its nice to be thanked or told you did a good job.

I realy like this game and this is the best MMO at the moment, it has the most aspects I like but there are stuff I don’t like but there is always something new and cool to look farward too

Realy, this game is ++++++++++ and I hope they will keep on making me enjoy this game.

But sadly threads like this just trolls haters, they won’t change their mind and “we fan boys” will not iether.

Edit: Sorry, thank you again Anet for another wonderfull game!

ANet, I too would like to thank you for a most excellent game, and hope that you continue to work kitten it. Your efforts are greatly appreciated by myself and my circle of friends who get together regularly for GW2 LAN parties. Keep up the good work and don’t spare the mustard!

The new update is looking AWESOME with new solo queue, better loot from champions, better reward system for dungeons, wallet to hold all currencies and some harder solo content, that players themselves can adjust to make even harder.

Anet DO listen to there players and where possible try to give them what they want…

GW2 is really a great game…