Guild Wars 2

Topic says it all. I know I’ve said in other posts about the trait reduction, but playing around with my thief today and possible builds I am finding some interesting possibilities, but I get sad when I’ve exhausted all 27 (I believe) possibilities for that trait line. Sometimes I feel a little shoehorned into a mold and it get’s me a little sad. Anyone else experimenting with builds, and just not finding that flexibility?

No. There is far more build diversity because the design of traits has (for the most part) improved greatly.

Cool, ty. You give me hope then

Well yeah, as long as there are fewer options to choose from there’s always going to be less diversity.

Some of the traits before the update were barely used/extremely situational, it’s true, but I didn’t see anything wrong with that.

Now I find it boring by comparison I will admit. There are benefits and drawbacks to both systems.

Seems like there is much less diversity.
Too many points to play with , too early seems to be an issue.

But my biggest concern is the extreme weakness of the NPC from a year ago. I think I will give this game away as well because of this weakness

IMO less actual diversity (less builds due to no longer dipping in other traits) but more USEABLE diversity (more builds are actually viable), which is better in the long run.

Yes, mathematically. Less possible combinations=less diversity. We used to be able to take several traits from a single tier if we were willing to give up a higher tier trait. Now we’re limited to three lines, period. And one of three traits per tier, period.

Even if there are 4 tiers now as opposed to 3 tier previously and still 12 possible traits, the possible combinations has been reduced considerably.

Less diversity. More casualized. Did Anet think their players are too dumb to pick traits that they made it this simple? 1/3 choices per tier and only 3 lines total. Give us back the only way to trait with the new traits.

I do like not being stuck to a trait line because that increased power or precision. Now I can venture into another trait line. But I do understand what you are talking about. In Critical Strikes for Thief I wanted both Signets of Power and Side Strike with are both Tier 1. I can’t do that now, but with the old system I could.

actually msot build in the old system were limited because you need msotly two traits for a weapon you main in your build.

NOW they are combined in one and you can repalce the other trait with a new one.
also you get three full lines.
before you can onyl have two and a thrid of a line.
and you could have traits that are entirly useless, not jsut because of meta but they had no synergy what so ever.

if we talk alone of three line builds then you compare 2 and a third lined with at leats two traits helping on weapon making it only 5-ish some time only 4-ish traits (either off hand traits or utility traits 2 for each)
and only 7 minors

new system has 6 full interchangeable traits meaning 1-2 more traits used then before since two trait for one thing are not required, since all weapons traits and utility traits are drawn together (seriously WHY wouldnt you use two traits making your meditations more effectiv?)
also 9 minor traits
Now traits that were the “best” in the old system have been restricted to choose between one of them. since you can´t palce a former rank trait in higher rank slots

so you can literaly and easier calculate the numbers of builds possible.

5 traits per 8 classes
3 traits per class from those
1 trait having 27 ways to be traited.

thats 135 traitable ways with all 5 at once.
but then you can onyl use 3 at the time, which doesn´t reduce the numbers of ways to trait rather increase them

While there’s fewer total builds, I think there’s more effective builds.

wait till ursanwayV2 goes viral.

I used to use both Protector’s Impact AND Protective Reviver, can’t any more because they are in the same tier.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

I used to use both Protector’s Impact AND Protective Reviver, can’t any more because they are in the same tier.

I really hope this is a joke post.

There is less build diversity, but fewer useless builds.

Usually the “useless” build were useless to the Munchkin crowd, who are useless to me.

This game definitely changed to having much less diversity and more cookie cutter builds now.
Which is great for overworked Devs with Guild Wars 1 balancing PTSD and Zerker Meta optimal DPS runners, but very boring for us tinkerers and fun builders.

For example before I had a neat Hammer/Rifle Warrior build that still allowed me great mobility, but that is dead now as the 25% run speed is on the same tier with Rifle -20%.

Oh well, at least this way there´s actual hope for eventually getting even more Elite classes with future expansions.

I’m finding more builds this way, but, I’m also finding more choices. Like having to sacrifice one thing I want to get another thing I want. Which is what it always should have been, but I can see why some people are unhappy with it.

Sure there are less actual combination but as others pointed out there are way more usefull builds now, and also the way it is designed now, allows for them to actually design more powerfull traits since you exclude other traits of same tier, so you can have them both. And again as pointed out earlier too, you actually get to use more total traits than before (with each trait potentially being more powerfull than before as well)

Also it will be FAR FAR easier for new players to understand this system as well

No. Build diversity =/= the max number of builds available no matter how crappy they are.

10000 possible builds with 3 viable ones is still less diversity than 1000 builds and 5 viable ones.

The optimistic way to look at it is that because there are less combinations to choose from, there are less garbage builds possible. You’re welcome.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

I used to use both Protector’s Impact AND Protective Reviver, can’t any more because they are in the same tier.

I really hope this is a joke post.

Actually serious. I am very casual and fall off stuff a lot and do world events where people need ressing. Never been one to try too hard at the ‘best’ build but rather one that fits my play style, which is now hindered.

I find the options are there, but also there are more viable options for switching on the fly for specific scenarios. I think it is now set up to urgently need a build template to save things to.

From what I calculated the number of possible builds now is 0.1% of the number of possible builds in the old system. What I can’t really calculate is the number of viable builds though. To me it feels like the number of viable builds was reduced by about 50% to 75%. Compared to the number of possible builds that isn’t too bad and I honestly expected diversity to be worse based on the information we got before the patch.

HawkMeister.4758:

Usually the “useless” build were useless to the Munchkin crowd, who are useless to me.

This game definitely changed to having much less diversity and more cookie cutter builds now.
Which is great for overworked Devs with Guild Wars 1 balancing PTSD and Zerker Meta optimal DPS runners, but very boring for us tinkerers and fun builders.

For example before I had a neat Hammer/Rifle Warrior build that still allowed me great mobility, but that is dead now as the 25% run speed is on the same tier with Rifle -20%.

Oh well, at least this way there´s actual hope for eventually getting even more Elite classes with future expansions.

Never heared of traveller runes ? And the runspeed boost never worked when you
had a ranged weapon equipped, so traveller runes were already “better” before
the change if you want perma speedbost.

Numerically, there’s a lot less build options.

It wasn’t the trait system change that made more builds “viable” or “good” (both are extremely subjective terms, btw) it was the change to conditions and how they are handled. Which, by the way, could’ve been achieved without changing the entire trait system. If you think the trait change was done for some other mythical reason than to make balancing easier (in the long run) by forcing the player population to adapt to a much smaller number of builds, that must be some really really good kool-aid you’re drinking.

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yyyeeeeeeeeeesssssssss.

What diversity you saw at thief lol?Now you can play “glass build” and..ohh YEAH,there is also “glass build” as well…
Survivability is gone.I was thief player who used valk gear with shadow arts to add vit+toughness to my build.Was playing slow but outnumbered combats due to my survivability but now,i have options just to play glass builds.All you can pick now is different versions of dmg boost traits and thats all.
I like the system but not the way they execute it.

Definitely a ton of build diversity now, makes me want to play all my 8 different profession all day, though I can’t because of work and studies

The original trait system had more diversity (talking about the one from launch). There was so much diversity in it. It confused a lot of people though, so they kept changing it.

Anyone remember GW1’s skill diversity though? I miss seeing all the PvX builds.

I don’t know about everyone else, but my go-to build is terminally broken. It was focused around elixir-infused bombs, which was removed from the game altogether.

I have not found yet how to build a tanky condineer (running bombs) with access to perma-swiftness. It’s impossible now.

You could also talk to all the thieves that loved Ricochet. Afaik, all pistol-related traits were removed, crippling pistols from “barely worth it” to “absolutely not worth it” and leaving a lot of people disappointed.

ok they now give you 3 points per trait line. vs 5 . it does not matter if you used them or not. they were there and it was good. NOW you choose between 3 and cannot mix and match lines so you end up taking useless traits devs think you should have instead of what you would like. A HUGE downgrade to unique builds or people who made anti meta builds. Kinda , no really disappointed in this direction they are taking, they did this EXACT same thing in WOW and lost a tonne of subscribers. I have seen total guilds just quit because they took so many builds away and replaced them with nothing. I did give it a chance and have a few good builds still. but everyone has the same, you wanted away from meta, they just made their own meta and took away any choice. gj

Well, I’m hoping, once they balance it, there will be more, because I’m hoping for fewer (ideally, no) red herrings.

specialization usually means focus, less diversity. so, yeah…

Duke Blackrose.4981:

No. There is far more build diversity because the design of traits has (for the most part) improved greatly.

I don’t think you understand what ‘build diversity’ means. It means differences of builds.

There is a lot less diversity because there’s fewer traits to choose from, and fewer possible combinations amongst existing traits, but the builds do more individually.

Before, we not only had 13 major traits per line (now having 9), but we could use up to three of traits 1-6, up to two of traits 7-10, and up to one of traits 11-13.

In other words, in a single trait line/core specialization we had well over a hundred possible trait combinations (I tried counting but I lost track at 140). With the new system, we have 27 possible trait combinations in a single line.

However, we also get access to two additional major traits, however at the cost of being only able to put points into three lines.

There is a loss of diversity.

But traits do more now, that we come out more powerful, able to do more with fewer things (which is not build diversity).

Of course, this weeds out the ‘suboptimal’ builds that few(er) people use, causing less (somewhat) hate on such builds that theoretically would lead to a nicer community/fewer elitist regulations, and most importantly makes things easier on the devs for balancing.

But to the OP’s question: Yes. We lost diversity for the benefit of being more powerful.

To the argument " fewer total builds" = " more effective builds" . Just cause you may have only played meta build does not mean there were not anti meta builds that were very viable. The fact we had a choice was awesome. Now we all play meta builds with very limited choices. How is that better?? Just cause you could not think out of the box to make something work. Now were all stuck in a box and the choice is gone..great job