Guild Wars 2

So quite a few of my friends have picked up the game in the past week or so, and I’ve been trying to use the awesome downleveling system to my advantage and help them out in their starting zones.

These friends use waypoints. A lot. They’re bouncing around from hearts to cities, looking for new events to do. Following them around costs me between 1 and 2 silver per waypoint. It’s gotten really expensive, and it’s discouraging me from playing with them, especially because the items and other rewards that I’m getting in the zone aren’t enough to break even on the waypoint expenses.

What seems to have happened is that my waypoint costs have gone up based on my level, but the rewards from the lower-level area that I’m playing in generally aren’t enough to mitigate the cost of waypointing around the area with the same amount of freedom that low level characters enjoy.

Obviously, increasing waypoint costs is intended functionality, but it seems like waypoint costs should be based on the level of the zone and the distance traveled, not the level of player. As it stands now, playing with a lower-level friend in a lower-level zone is frustrating because I’m hemorrhaging silver every time we bounce from point to point.

Why are they using waypoints so extensively? If they are just starting, they should be out exploring, not reusing the same waypoints to no end.

Maybe have them give you money to help them?

I would tend to agree with you. If the level and rewards are downshifted, you shouldn’t have to pre-farm gold elsewhere just to be able to keep up.

Although, as a low-level person, I really don’t use Waypoints very often, only when I’m forced to. For now, maybe tell your friends to cool it. :P

I’m experiencing the same issue. But even without playing with friends, the personal story quests seems to go back and forth between multiple zones a lot.

I just rush through them as I already completed the zones, but if I were to use waypoints it would really add up.

They’re a luxury, not a necessity. Try to get your friends into the habit of using them sparingly, especially if they’re just starting out. There’s plenty to do and see in between each waypoint, after all!

Not to mention, you earn a profit participating in dynamic events when travelling manually. Karma, experience, money and whatever the enemies happen to drop along the way.

I have to agree with the OP and it’s not just a problem when leveling with low level friends, but a problem in general. The waypoints were put in there so we don’t have to run around so much, and touted as a great way to quickly get across the map instead of spending several minutes in flight or on a mount like in other MMO’s. It needs to be an affordable convenience, based on distance traveled, not my level. You don’t create systems like that and then tell people to walk instead. They have map completion achievements and other ways to incentivize exploring (and I do find it fun). But if I’ve already seen the place and just want to get somewhere fast, I’d just like it to be cheaper.

The problem is it seems like waypoint costs scale faster than the amount you get from DEs.

Some gold sources don’t even scale.

I agree with OP. I think waypoints costs are quite excessive at high levels.

I strongly agree – waypoint costs are too high from about the 50’s on to the point that I can’t afford to play my high level character with low level friends.

Solution: Play with them on an alt.

Suggestions for the game mechanic:
* Have waypoints costs scale with zone level
* Discount waypoint costs for fully explored zones
* Have DE gold reward scale with level

Totally agree on this. It’s fine that waypoints become more expensive with your level, but zone level should have a far larger impact on the price.

Agreed. Costs should be based on zone level and distance traveled. Not even sure character level needs to come into play. Right now it’s kinda like paying airfare based on age.

My $.02 is actually a pair of questions.

For what in-world reason do they cost anything at all? The ones from the mists to LA are free. From LA to cities and back are free. I just don’t get it. Now, I get the ‘gold sink’ aspect, but that’s real life intruding on the game.

And regardless of if there’s some in-world cost, how could it have anything to do with MY level, since all my level does is allow me to see new lands (not necessarily more distant from, let’s say, LA which has a couple of mid/high level zones directly attached)?

I like that there are no flying mounts. I like the concept of the waypoints. But I DETEST the way the cost is handled. It just feels like the hand of a developer reaching into the game world and fondling me inappropriately while I run around innocently playing.

I agree with the OP about WP costs.

Which is why when playing with friends I use lower level alt and have them follow me around!

This is exactly the reason I created an alt to play with low level friends. Paying high level taxes for playing in a low level area isn’t worth it.

Have WP cost scale up based on distance rather than level = problem solved.

Yes, the costs are extremely prohibitive of letting you do whatever you feel like. Considering the game grooms that feeling of freedom and leisure for most levels… it’s a bad mechanic to make your endgame character worse to play.

I recommend either:

- Straight up reduction in costs. 1s should top out as the max fee. We have LOTS of other stuff to sink money on, except for the rich best power traders… and there’s nothing you can do to make a big enough sinks for them. As it is this kind of sink DOES NOT effect them, only normal players.

- Have Discount Travel Tickets. This item reduces waypoint fees by 75% for 24 hours. Get one from karma, every time you do a map completion, black lion chest, etc…

Way points should have a flat fee on a point-to-point basis.

Short distance = small amount.
Long distance = large amount.

Simple.

Leiloni.7951:

I have to agree with the OP and it’s not just a problem when leveling with low level friends, but a problem in general. The waypoints were put in there so we don’t have to run around so much, and touted as a great way to quickly get across the map instead of spending several minutes in flight or on a mount like in other MMO’s. It needs to be an affordable convenience, based on distance traveled, not my level. You don’t create systems like that and then tell people to walk instead. They have map completion achievements and other ways to incentivize exploring (and I do find it fun). But if I’ve already seen the place and just want to get somewhere fast, I’d just like it to be cheaper.

You brought up a good suggestion. I would agree that Waypoint price might work better depending on the distance traveled moreso than level.

Or if they do keep it by level, they should at least price it according to what level you are downgraded to (while traveling within a zone). If you’re not getting the luxury of your higher levels then you shouldn’t be expected to pay the prices.

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

Why are they using waypoints so extensively? If they are just starting, they should be out exploring, not reusing the same waypoints to no end.

Maybe have them give you money to help them?

Obviously, they are using waypoints so extensively because the amount it costs at low levels is trivial. The game encourages their use at those levels.

Consider that you make maybe 50c on a DE in a level 3 area. As a level 3, it costs 9c to go to a nearby waypoint. So, the cost of a nearby waypoint for a level 3 is around 20% of what he makes by participating in a DE.

You make a bit less than 2 silver on a DE in a level 80 area, and it costs around 2s to use a nearby by waypoint. So the cost of a nearby waypoint for a level 80 is over 100% of what he makes by participating in a DE.

That’s the issue.

Honestly, I don’t see how an Asuran Gate fee plays a part in this game, other than being an MMO counterpart of real life airfare. In real life all the prices around me are being jacked up, including the much used subway. This Asuran Gate fee is just a bitter reminder of that for me.

In this game I saved the lives of people in numerous villages and slayed tons of centaurs, mountain trolls, pillaging pirates, and gigantic wurms. I’m a hero for heaven’s sake! Don’t I get a hero discount while travelling to fight more bad guys?

It’s not like the NPCs need my money to maintain gate portals.

I learned the best way around this is to realize the truth that down scaling to enjoy low level content is pointless and that your friends should just stop being lazy and level up. Good to go.

I do not like the downscaling and its very unrewarding especially at high repair costs and things you earn.

ooh, i have noticed the costs going up, but never thought about it this way. especially when you’re helping your friends out.

i agree that if we are downscaled, which is i think in this case, works very well (although i do like playing games to be OP lol), then the costs for waypointing, and other things should be to scale as well.

though do encourage them to slow down, take it in! there’s no point in getting the game done asap.

anet doesn’t want people using too many waypoints evidently, it’d be like flying mounts, making the world empty.

My problem is even on equal level zones the cost to use a waypoint is equal to or barely lower (And rarely higher) than the reward you get from say, finishing off a heart. The waypoint system is a brilliant way to do away with mounts, but its cost is way too high. Waypoints were touted as an easy and convenient way to move around the game, except I feel I need to pop out a calculator each time I’m going to use one and figure out if I can afford the transit.

Not saying they should be free, but I’m also saying that lower level waypoints should cost lower amounts. If you want to encourage me to go back and play more in those zones it has to be worth the expenditure eh?

It would be nice if there was an option to pay with karma points instead.

Venator.5780:

• Discount waypoint costs for fully explored zones

This is a really good idea imo. More of a long-term perk for exploration and it solves this issue as well.

I tend to agree with most of these posts. The cost of way-points should be your scaled level not your current level and it needs to be adjusted at higher levels to make it more balanced. As someone stated before, the rewards from one DE doesn’t always cover the cost of even one way-point.

I like how the advice on Waypoints is “don’t use them”. I’m fairly sure they weren’t implemented just to have pretty diamond shapes on the map.

It’s pretty simple: If loot doesn’t scale with your real level, then so neither should waypoint costs.

Slaunyeh.9852:

I like how the advice on Waypoints is “don’t use them”. I’m fairly sure they weren’t implemented just to have pretty diamond shapes on the map.

It’s pretty simple: If loot doesn’t scale with your real level, then so neither should waypoint costs.

Yeah, the argument “don’t use them” is pretty asinine. Apparently, due to waypoint costs, everyone should be content to run from Divinity’s Reach to the Plains of Ascalon.

I agree with the OP, We are being punished for playing with friends, It is just like how we are punished for having too much time on our hands and decide to farm at because we have nothing else we rather do and just want to increase our wallets but no they hard carp the limit on items and money and karma earned so u cannot farm for hours which really sucks as I don’t want to be forced to buy the items I want when I can craft them if I can farm the mats enough.

THIS IS SOOO TRUE!!! I got charged about 6s just going to help 1 guildy kill something real quick. Going to the main city’s is throwing away any silver or gold you make each hour. This needs to be looked at and soon. On another note Anet you rule the MMO world my friends. 5 year big gw fan and giving a huge thumbs up. keep up the great job!

Agreed. At Lv80, the cost of a WP that is right next to me costs about 1s 20c, a little further and it becomes 1s 60c, and whenever I want to head back to DR from a higher lvl area it’s like 4s when DE give me less than 2s.

Doesn’t feel good to group with my low lvl friends.

I agree that the cost for waypoints is too high… @Stukov: You do know that you can go to any of the cities for free by going to the heart of mists, and taking the asura gate to lions arch, then the asura gate to the city you want to go?

So, waypoint costs also should be downed to the level you’re downed. This would be awesome and is needed I think.

I’m beginning to believe that these high costs we’re hit with everywhere are to try and force us towards the Gem store. Running out of money? No problem! Buy more at the Gem store!
This kind of behaviour is what will drive me away from the game if anything.

Also, as a Guild Wars 1 player where there were no armour repairs, and I could go anywhere in the world for free in a maximum of 4 clicks, I’m finding this decision even harder to come to terms with. I also believe that people suggesting these fares are only right and cheap at that, probably didn’t play the first game.

Gameplay wise, GW2 is revolutionary.
However, the level of monetisation is close to becoming sickening, and having ridden the wave of F2P that has been popular over the past 2-3 years, I can tell you I am fed up with being nickel-&-dimed, and I don’t appreciate it.

..try to mine mine ore, chop wood and gather things in his area ..they sell very good as ppl outlevel those areas

Guerito.2139:

I agree that the cost for waypoints is too high… @Stukov: You do know that you can go to any of the cities for free by going to the heart of mists, and taking the asura gate to lions arch, then the asura gate to the city you want to go?

I do, however, someone said that it wasn’t supposed to work that way since it has no cost at all and that it was an exploit. I’m not sure if ANet has said anything about it yet but I prefer to avoid doing this until things have been clarified.

Mungrul.9358:

I’m beginning to believe that these high costs we’re hit with everywhere are to try and force us towards the Gem store. Running out of money? No problem! Buy more at the Gem store!
This kind of behaviour is what will drive me away from the game if anything.

Also, as a Guild Wars 1 player where there were no armour repairs, and I could go anywhere in the world for free in a maximum of 4 clicks, I’m finding this decision even harder to come to terms with. I also believe that people suggesting these fares are only right and cheap at that, probably didn’t play the first game.

Gameplay wise, GW2 is revolutionary.
However, the level of monetisation is close to becoming sickening, and having ridden the wave of F2P that has been popular over the past 2-3 years, I can tell you I am fed up with being nickel-&-dimed, and I don’t appreciate it.

Good point of view, I too am starting to fell that this game might turn out that way as well. Its the same mentality going on here as over in DiabloIII when it comes to how to get more money or an item faster.

I do agree with OP on this, I do feel as if the prices are way to high, Spend an average of 6s going back and forth, Not to mention if I help friends or guildies in lower level dungeons it just doesn’t seem worth it if they’re learning and messing up a lot.

With that being said, Someone who mentioned how they don’t think people who say they agree with repairs and fees for traveling may not have played GW1, I have played that one and I actually with some of the repairs and fees to teleport. It gives us something to actually spend our money on. GW1 what else was there to really use it on besides mats? Which were all useless besides the cool factor.

I’d rather see them lower the prices, Maybe distance as someone else has mentioned. And repairs to at least become cheaper in areas. But I see it being abused. So perhaps the idea of having the benefits of things being cheaper to those who have explored 100% in a zone is the best way to go about it. Just in my opinion though.

Did forget to mention, If they don’t at least lower the prices I wish they’d lower culture gear. That stuff takes forever to get from the looks of the prices

TransparentlyOpaque.1824:

Why are they using waypoints so extensively? If they are just starting, they should be out exploring, not reusing the same waypoints to no end.

Maybe have them give you money to help them?

If it’s fine and affordable to warp around at the appropriate level, then it should be fine for a down-scaled player.

Think about it. The feature is there to encourage co-op, but is instead discouraging co-op.

somethings needs to be done about the costs of traveling. charging for fast travel and armor repair at the same time is just too much and i’m really tired of travelling to the mists and back to lions arch just to save a few silver.

I’m getting really tired of MMO’s shoving excessive goldsinks like these down our throats and presenting them as a “convenience”. My ranger is now lvl 73 and the cost of waypoint travel is ridiculous compared to the average income at that level – I noticed that from around lvl 40-50 onwards waypoints already started to become more of a rip-off than a convenience.

As a longtime GW1 player the whole “it’s optional” excuse doesn’t cut it for me, not when we were promised better than this for GW2. Goldsinks aren’t a bad thing when done in moderation, but when they become excessive they tend to hurt the majority of the playerbase more than they help to balance the economy (because they widen the gap in wealth between regular players overburdened with goldsinks and the top few who dodge most of the goldsinks and play so excessively it doesn’t matter).

Everything I’ve seen so far of the earnings/spendings at higher level – from the high cost of waypoint travel and armour repairs to the increases in the cost of most of the stuff worth buying at high level (like lvl 80 weapons and armors) – seems to point towards the GW2 money treadmill having been adjusted to match the pace of fast-burning MMO players who tend to dodge most of the goldsinks anyway, while the rest of us get burdened down with them.

At level 65 I find the costs for traveling to be too expensive. I find myself hardly ever using waypoints unless I absolutely have to (as in I get stuck). I loved them in the game at first when they were inexpensive but now it’s like… OK these cost too much, can we have mounts instead? I never thought I’d say that.

I believe that the cost to waypoint somewhere should be based on the effective level you are reduced to at that waypoint. I wouldn’t mind seeing gear repairs reduced similarly. Playing with lower-level friends/guildies isn’t much fun when it costs a few SP to get there and a ton of SP if you die.

There is a way to reduce the waypoint costs at least somewhat. You can zone to the Mists for free from anywhere using the Hero/PVP tab. From there, zone to LA (again, free). Then use the lowbie zone hub or one of the mid-range exits to get to the zone (or closest to it) you are trying to reach.

i love the way the game looks and most of the way it plays but for me it’s a matter of time in game is limited, i work, have other things going and spending the time to run across the maps kind of bites into playing time, so wp’s are more towards a must use for me.
gw 1 map travel and no armor repairs fit with my only being able to be in game a couple of hours a day which made 7 years of fun for me, this game though 1/3rdish of my time now is spent running from point a to point w to help the guild, or get where i need to go for my story and if i use the faster route it all points at my bank account which is a big reason why i stayed clear of wow

How about free WP travel once per hour?
This would discourage willy nilly waypoint usage without imposing a financial burdon on taking care of business in LA once in a while.

WP travel to LA should be free
As in free from the cost of two loading screens.

Venator.5780:

How about free WP travel once per hour?
This would discourage willy nilly waypoint usage without imposing a financial burdon on taking care of business in LA once in a while.

WP travel to LA should be free
As in free from the cost of two loading screens.

Hi Venator;

Just curious; why do you feel “willy nilly waypoint usage” should be discouraged in the first place?
If I sit down and really think about it, I honestly can’t think of a genuine reason why a player should be punished for being able to use waypoints freely whenever they want.
The only circumstance that springs to mind is where the game is regarded more as a job or a privilege rather than a form of entertainment.

Maybe its to encourage players to.. you know, explore? Way points shouldn’t be used often, they take away from the game and its dynamic events. Take a walk and enjoy the randomness that comes with it, that’s all part of the fun!

But you have to explore to discover waypoints in the first place.
Edit: Oh yeah, and I’ve got my Explorer’s star and Gifts of the Explorer, so I know a thing or two about what drives people to explore.

Overall it just feels that the income ratio and travel costs when your around level 25 vs the income ratio and travel costs around 60 is off.