Guild Wars 2

critickitten.1498:

Jski.6180:

I see so i guess if you cant do your monthly they will close your account? What monsters they are!

So ya i think this is going to happen every month it will changes but there will always be a sub group of ppl who will not like it.

See, these are the sorts of posts that should be getting infractions, but never do. This poster has contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion at all, and has very blatantly trolled me. I’d like to see a moderator deal with this post, but I won’t hold my breath.

Again, since you didn’t read the post the first time: I myself don’t mind running Fractals, but plenty of other people do. And a lot of players quit the game because of the update that Fractals helped introduce. It is extremely unwise for the dev team to keep forcing people to run Fractals when they don’t want to. If players feel like they’re being railroaded into something they don’t want to do, they’re not going to do it, they’ll just stop playing.

This isn’t one of those “people are always gonna complain” things, there is no legitimate reason for Fractals to still be on the monthly achievements list. It made sense in November because it was part of the update, and you could argue they were still trying to push it in December. But it’s now January. And in fact, keeping it on the list violates their promise of not being forced to run dungeons at endgame. “But you’re not forced to do achievements”, you say. Sure you’re not….if you’re a hardcore player. If you’re a casual player, this is your primary means of keeping up with the folks who farm the game like they’re possessed. Daily and monthly are the easiest way for you to get karma and forge tokens. So yes, if you’re a casual, you’re being “encouraged” to run something you may not want to run just to keep up with other players, and that makes it a violation of the “no grinding dungeons at endgame” promise.

I would love to hear a real reason why Fractals should stay on the monthly achievement list. Let’s have it.

I hate it when people throw around the term “casual.” I consider myself a casual player, and yet I have multiple level 80 chars who are all geared in multiple sets of exotic armor, and have very expensive armor/weapon skins. I also run dungeons, albeit not religiously, and I do a healthy amount of sPvP/tPvP/W3. Your definition of casual is either the exceedingly casual, in which case they should not even be considered in this discussion, or the outright lazy, in which case they should not even be considered in this discussion. Furthermore, what does a casual do, exactly? They cannot do Dungeons, because apparently that’s too hardcore. They must not map zones, because that would gain them very easy gold, thereby allowing them to purchase any missing Mystic Coins they may lack. Events must be out, as well, because that would mean gaining Karma and Gold at an even remotely reasonable rate. Do they sit in zones all day and stare at the scenery? Please, do enlighten me, because I’m obviously missing something.

Finally, no free Jugs of Karma are going to enable you to keep up with the “hardcores.” They are the people who farm Penitent Path like it’s their calling. They probably gain thousands of times more Karma per month than a “casual.” So why, again, would a few extra Jugs per month impact anything?

To answer your last question, because it’s a component of PvE. The monthly achievement is meant to encompass a wide variety of PvE-related content. Just so happens that Fractals are considered PvE content. I’m sorry that you dislike Fractals, but if you seem to despise it so vehemently, maybe you should forego this month’s achievement.

Is the xmas/wintersday JP part of the achievement?

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

Is the xmas/wintersday JP part of the achievement?

No, they are not.

critickitten.1498:

Jski.6180:

I see so i guess if you cant do your monthly they will close your account? What monsters they are!

So ya i think this is going to happen every month it will changes but there will always be a sub group of ppl who will not like it.

See, these are the sorts of posts that should be getting infractions, but never do. This poster has contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion at all, and has very blatantly trolled me. I’d like to see a moderator deal with this post, but I won’t hold my breath.

Again, since you didn’t read the post the first time: I myself don’t mind running Fractals, but plenty of other people do. And a lot of players quit the game because of the update that Fractals helped introduce. It is extremely unwise for the dev team to keep forcing people to run Fractals when they don’t want to. If players feel like they’re being railroaded into something they don’t want to do, they’re not going to do it, they’ll just stop playing.

This isn’t one of those “people are always gonna complain” things, there is no legitimate reason for Fractals to still be on the monthly achievements list. It made sense in November because it was part of the update, and you could argue they were still trying to push it in December. But it’s now January. And in fact, keeping it on the list violates their promise of not being forced to run dungeons at endgame. “But you’re not forced to do achievements”, you say. Sure you’re not….if you’re a hardcore player. If you’re a casual player, this is your primary means of keeping up with the folks who farm the game like they’re possessed. Daily and monthly are the easiest way for you to get karma and forge tokens. So yes, if you’re a casual, you’re being “encouraged” to run something you may not want to run just to keep up with other players, and that makes it a violation of the “no grinding dungeons at endgame” promise.

I would love to hear a real reason why Fractals should stay on the monthly achievement list. Let’s have it.

I don’t understand why so much fuss is being made over 7 fractals. 7 fractals will take you at most 1 hour game time (if you do low end fractals), and you have the entire month to do it (2 fractals a week will be enough). What would you suggest they do instead? Generic dungeon completion? well thats still violating their promise according to you. Gathering? that’s another form of grind (ie what if all I do is dungeon runs?). If you can honestly say you don’t mind doing 100 events, but 7 fractals is too much, I’m sorry that I can’t understand your view.

This is not a flame vs you. You said the above posted should suffer an infraction because they didn’t add anything to the discussion. Well, I don’t think you have either then "I don’t like this, so they should remove it because in my mind it violates something they said after I twisted it around to my liking. These achievement won’t let you keep up with the “die hards” because guess what, those “die hards” probably complete their monthly in the first few days of every month (hence both parties get the same reward).

In my opinion, this is exactly a “people will always complain” issue. Someone will ALWAYS not like some part of the monthly/daily achievements (and event if such a miracle were to occur, you would still get people here complaining that it’s too simple/hard/easy/long/boring…etc). It’s the nature of the beast.

To answer your question at the bottom, I think they should remain part of the Monthly achievement for two reasons. It’s the latest dungeon to come out (two months does not = stale old content IMO), and their are no special events scheduled for January.

If you want this (monthly achievement) changed, I suggest you post what you think the 4 monthly achievements should be. I will gladly read it, and add my voice or critique to it.

(No, I’m not agreeing with what they posted, I’m just commenting on your reply.)

NetherDiver.6079:

critickitten.1498:

Berobad.4536:

Will there ever be a monthly without the fractals again?

This is the question that REALLY needs to be answered.

I find Fractals fun to play, but I don’t want it to be forced on me every single month to complete the monthly reqs.

It’s 7 Fractals guys. As in run 1 and 2 and you’re done.

If you REALLY don’t want to have to spend too much time doing them, you could just get a group of people and do level 1 fractals. Then just restart till swamp, complete it then restart, until you have 7. Seeing as how swamp at level 1 takes like 5 minutes, you could easily get it done in under an hour.

People just like to complain about anything and everything that might have them actually play the game.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The monthlies need to be restructured. The monthly achievement and reward should require the completion of four out of six to eight related achievement paths, so that players can pick based on their play preferences, rather than being forced to do WvW or Fractals, etc…

I have 700+ hours of play, complete my dailies almost every day, but I have NEVER completed a monthly, because I refuse to do content I hate because Arenanet arbitrarily decided I need to do it for a monthly.

People don’t mind working to earn a monthly, but many resent being forced to do content they loathe. What happened to “never forcing people to do a form of game play they don’t enjoy” in order to get an equivalent reward?

Boonprot.6274:

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Topher.1684:

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You both need to read what I’ve said more carefully and put more thought into your replies.

I have already said that I actually LIKE Fractals. In fact I think all the game’s dungeons need to be rebuilt in the same vein.

But unlike either of you, I acknowledge that my opinion is not the only one in the entire universe, and that there are a great number of people who do not like Fractals. And the devs received a great deal of flak for Fractals from the start, as the release convinced many people to quit this game. Fractals is not actually all that popular. Fractals, and its creation of Ascended gear, spawned backlash of such a large degree that they were forced to announce several fixes to the dungeon coming in January’s patch, and had to reassure players on multiple occasions that Ascended items would be introduced in other areas. And yet, despite the massive backlash the team has faced, they continue to try and force it down people’s throats every month. That doesn’t seem like sound business logic to me.

People who do not like Fractals should not be forced to play in Fractals. Just as those who dislike WvW should not be forced to play in WvW.

Daily achievements can be completed virtually ANYWHERE in the game. So why are monthly achievements forcing people to play in content they don’t like? They need to be restructured to be more friendly to the casual audience.

critickitten.1498:

NetherDiver.6079:

critickitten.1498:

Berobad.4536:

Will there ever be a monthly without the fractals again?

This is the question that REALLY needs to be answered.

I find Fractals fun to play, but I don’t want it to be forced on me every single month to complete the monthly reqs.

It’s 7 Fractals guys. As in run 1 and 2 and you’re done.

It’s not about the number of times we have to run it, it’s the fact that, a full two months after this new dungeon was released, we’re still expected to run it every month like clockwork. I could understand it being a requirement for the month of November, maybe even December, but January too? Is it really going to be a forced monthly requirement for all of the foreseeable future?

I seem to recall the devs saying that they didn’t want us feeling as though we were “forced to run dungeons at endgame”, yet that’s exactly what this is. We’re being forced to run dungeons to fulfill our monthly quota. And I don’t mind Fractals much, but for those who aren’t fond of it (or worse, quit over it), it’s really not smart to keep shoving it down their throats every month.

Running two fractal scales a month is clockwork? :O. C’mon, seriously? I know you’re pressured into doing something you don’t want to do (you still get plenty of karma doing your dailies and dungeons, though, idk), but come on. TWO fractal scales takes about 2-3 hours.

I don’t think they’re going to include this next month, though. This is pure speculation, but because they’re making fractal changes at the end of Jan, making them easier to group into, it makes sense that the achievement will have fractal related tasks. So if they’re doing nothing to fractals next month then they might take that out of the monthly.

Fiontar.4695:

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The monthlies need to be restructured. The monthly achievement and reward should require the completion of four out of six to eight related achievement paths, so that players can pick based on their play preferences, rather than being forced to do WvW or Fractals, etc…

I have 700+ hours of play, complete my dailies almost every day, but I have NEVER completed a monthly, because I refuse to do content I hate because Arenanet arbitrarily decided I need to do it for a monthly.

People don’t mind working to earn a monthly, but many resent being forced to do content they loathe. What happened to “never forcing people to do a form of game play they don’t enjoy” in order to get an equivalent reward?

Then… don’t do the monthly. It’s not like anet is pointing a gun at your face. Besides, the rewards are only 10 jugs of karma and 20 coins. Those rewards are gonna be useful only for either getting crazy MF weapons, or legendaries, or karma armor. If it’s those weapons/legendaries, with this attitude you really won’t get them as there are probably more content you wouldn’t want to do (like farming, or JP wvw for instance). If its for karma armor, well, karma is so easy to get now. 1 jug a day and you get alot of karma doing dungeons so it shouldn’t be a problem to get your 240k karma for your armor set.

the only content I loathe is pvp, and I won’t do it unless required (or unless I get a bit bored of pve, then I dabble a few rounds in pvp in a month). But if they made that a requirement for pve (which will never happen), I’ll still do it because the rewards in my opinion, far outweigh the “suffering” i’ll have to endure doing those things. I used to hate wvw, hate killing people, etc. But because of the work entailed to get the 500 badges, I love it now.

Serious question though, what’s the Monthly Event Participation? Are those DEs?

penatbater.4710:

Fiontar.4695:

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The monthlies need to be restructured. The monthly achievement and reward should require the completion of four out of six to eight related achievement paths, so that players can pick based on their play preferences, rather than being forced to do WvW or Fractals, etc…

I have 700+ hours of play, complete my dailies almost every day, but I have NEVER completed a monthly, because I refuse to do content I hate because Arenanet arbitrarily decided I need to do it for a monthly.

People don’t mind working to earn a monthly, but many resent being forced to do content they loathe. What happened to “never forcing people to do a form of game play they don’t enjoy” in order to get an equivalent reward?

Then… don’t do the monthly. It’s not like anet is pointing a gun at your face. Besides, the rewards are only 10 jugs of karma and 20 coins. Those rewards are gonna be useful only for either getting crazy MF weapons, or legendaries, or karma armor. If it’s those weapons/legendaries, with this attitude you really won’t get them as there are probably more content you wouldn’t want to do (like farming, or JP wvw for instance). If its for karma armor, well, karma is so easy to get now. 1 jug a day and you get alot of karma doing dungeons so it shouldn’t be a problem to get your 240k karma for your armor set.

the only content I loathe is pvp, and I won’t do it unless required (or unless I get a bit bored of pve, then I dabble a few rounds in pvp in a month). But if they made that a requirement for pve (which will never happen), I’ll still do it because the rewards in my opinion, far outweigh the “suffering” i’ll have to endure doing those things. I used to hate wvw, hate killing people, etc. But because of the work entailed to get the 500 badges, I love it now.

Serious question though, what’s the Monthly Event Participation? Are those DEs?

I’d believe so.

penatbater.4710:

Serious question though, what’s the Monthly Event Participation? Are those DEs?

Yeah it basically the monthly version of the event achievement in Daily.

critickitten.1498:

Boonprot.6274:

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Topher.1684:

-snip-

You both need to read what I’ve said more carefully and put more thought into your replies.

People who do not like Fractals should not be forced to play in Fractals. Just as those who dislike WvW should not be forced to play in WvW.

Daily achievements can be completed virtually ANYWHERE in the game. So why are monthly achievements forcing people to play in content they don’t like? They need to be restructured to be more friendly to the casual audience.

You aren’t forced into fractals. You don’t HAVE To do the monthly.

I didn’t do mine last month because I couldn’t be bothered to kill enough toys. I’ll live without it.

There’s always people who are going to complain about some part of the monthly. They need to learn to deal with it.

These people wouldn’t be happy unless the monthly consisted of nothing but running around lions arch picking daisys.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You aren’t forced into fractals. You don’t HAVE To do the monthly.

I’ve already explained why this logic doesn’t work and I don’t have the patience to keep repeating it for every single person who posts this.

So I’ll just summarize it instead:

“It’s optional” is an excuse that can be applied to virtually any aspect of the game that you or anyone else doesn’t like. The problem with this excuse is that, if there is an actual problem with the existing model, this excuse doesn’t FIX the underlying problem. It instead insists that people should just ignore the problem instead.

These discussions pop up because people want to fix the problem, or at least discuss the problem rationally. They do not ALWAYS pop up just because people are fond of complaining. Some of us actually want to make the game better.

I suggest that if you are incapable of contributing to the discussion, that you refrain from posting in it.

critickitten.1498:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

You aren’t forced into fractals. You don’t HAVE To do the monthly.

I’ve already explained why this logic doesn’t work and I don’t have the patience to keep repeating it for every single person who posts this.

So I’ll just summarize it instead:

“It’s optional” is an excuse that can be applied to virtually any aspect of the game that you or anyone else doesn’t like. The problem with this excuse is that, if there is an actual problem with the existing model, this excuse doesn’t FIX the underlying problem. It instead insists that people should just ignore the problem instead.

These discussions pop up because people want to fix the problem, or at least discuss the problem rationally. They do not ALWAYS pop up just because people are fond of complaining. Some of us actually want to make the game better.

I suggest that if you are incapable of contributing to the discussion, that you refrain from posting in it.

But the thing is, there really isn’t any problem with the current model. You’re just making it into a problem. Who are you to say that the current model needs fixing? If you claim it’s broken, can I claim it’s fine as it is?

Been playing since game launch, and not once have I made my ‘monthly’ cos I don’t do WvW nor like Fractals. Although I like JP’s, this addition to the monthly is just another bad idea …

penatbater.4710:

But the thing is, there really isn’t any problem with the current model. You’re just making it into a problem. Who are you to say that the current model needs fixing? If you claim it’s broken, can I claim it’s fine as it is?

Ah, this would be a great argument….if we didn’t know why they implemented daily and monthly achievements in the first place.

But unfortunately for you, we actually DO know what daily and monthly achievements exist for. The devs stated in an interview (way back when the game was being shown off at conventions) that there were two main reasons for these specific types of achievements:
1) intended to be a way to easily reward casual players for performing simple tasks in the game
2) meant to encourage players to log in more regularly

Right now, they do not perform this task.

Casual players cannot be expected to just “jump into WvW” and earn 50 kills, and most casual players (we’re talking real casual players here, mind, not the folks like myself who SAY they’re just casual players but have several Lvl 80s and well over 600 hours logged since the game’s release) will not be very good at Fractals either. And this is something that people who aren’t actually “casual gamers” don’t tend to understand, because there’s a different mentality and mindset involved. It seems easy to YOU because you’re a different sort of gamer than the folks we’re talking about.

“Well, kitten on them,” you’re no doubt itching to reply. “If they can’t perform these arbitrarily chosen tasks then they obviously don’t want it bad enough!”

And the moment that thought even entered your mind, you were lost to us. Because you have so completely missed the point right there that there is no way to bring you back. You’re way past the event horizon the very instant you start separating people into tiers of importance, and claiming that those “casuals” just don’t want it badly enough and aren’t worthy of the “glory” of monthly achievements.

This game was built around the concept of letting us play the game how we want to play it. At this stage, we’ve tried everything and (most likely) most have settled on a few things in-game that they prefer over the rest of the game. We may have even developed a hatred of certain game aspects (for me, it’s the way the old dungeons are loaded with cheap shot mechanics that don’t lend themselves towards a skill-based game). We should not still be forcing players to do content that they don’t enjoy. You want to promote new content, that’s fine. But Fractals is not new any more, and neither is WvW. I think we can move on, now.

critickitten.1498:

penatbater.4710:

But the thing is, there really isn’t any problem with the current model. You’re just making it into a problem. Who are you to say that the current model needs fixing? If you claim it’s broken, can I claim it’s fine as it is?

Casual players cannot be expected to just “jump into WvW” and earn 50 kills, and most casual players (we’re talking real casual players here, mind, not the folks like myself who SAY they’re just casual players but have several Lvl 80s and well over 600 hours logged since the game’s release) will not be very good at Fractals either.

I don’t think you really know what a casual player is.

Not very good at fractals? Have you done a level 1/2 fractal? It’s incredibly easy. Any CASUAL player would be able to get through it well before the end of the month.

Most casual players can easily get 50 kills in WvW. You can get 50 kills in under an hour, hell in the right conditions you can get it in under 20 minutes.

Just a few minutes ago I got about 15-20 kills using daggerstorm once in a large fight at a supply camp

If 50 kills is too many for you, if level 1/2 fractals are too much for you, then you aren’t a “casual player,” you’re a bad player.

critickitten.1498:

This game was built around the concept of letting us play the game how we want to play it. At this stage, we’ve tried everything and (most likely) most have settled on a few things in-game that they prefer over the rest of the game. We may have even developed a hatred of certain game aspects (for me, it’s the way the old dungeons are loaded with cheap shot mechanics that don’t lend themselves towards a skill-based game). We should not still be forcing players to do content that they don’t enjoy. You want to promote new content, that’s fine. But Fractals is not new any more, and neither is WvW. I think we can move on, now.

Precisely. The only aspect of GW2 I truly enjoy is gathering. Nothing else. Can you suggest a monthly achievement that won’t force me to do anything else?

critickitten.1498:

But unfortunately for you, we actually DO know what daily and monthly achievements exist for. The devs stated in an interview (way back when the game was being shown off at conventions) that there were two main reasons for these specific types of achievements:
1) intended to be a way to easily reward casual players for performing simple tasks in the game
2) meant to encourage players to log in more regularly

Right now, they do not perform this task.

Another reason achievements exist, even if they don’t tell you that, it to gently push people to try other aspects of the game, even those they wouldn’t try by themselves in the first time.

That WvW kills monthly achievement is perfect for that. I know some players that from the start said they wouldn’t do any PvP at all and now they found out they like it after all and spend a lot of time doing WvW instead of PvE.

Does anyone have a list of which jp’s that counts toward the achievement without needing to be completed? I admittedly suck at jumping stuff and would rather spare myself the frustration of having to complete something that will take me ages to do.

Also, for those that wonder why people dislike FotM being on the monthly yet again (third month in a row). For my part it’s because they still haven’t fixed the dc issue, and as a player that tends to dc randomly, it’s frustrating and annoying. It requires me to find a new group after crashing, time spent doing one fractal is wasted, unless I dc right after completion and I impede on others progress. I had hoped that they wouldn’t push for more fractal monthlys until the dc issue was fixed. There are other dungeons in the game, that are far more underutilised then fractals.. They could have had clearing any which ones as the monthly.

I like JPs and I like how ANet change the monthly achievements about all the time. If anything I don’t like the Fractal monthly. Didn’t do the November one because I didn’t like fractals. Not because the dungeon itself is bad – I actually liked loads of the fights but boss fights last too long and if someone disconnects its a massive pain. If and when they change those I’ll be happy with fractal monthly

JP monthly sounds cool to me. Gives me the extra nudge to go find all the JPs. I really don’y understand why people on this forum are so negative and complain all the time! I can understand people needing a moan now and then but there is so much venomous and hyperbolic language aimed at other players and ANet that it is quite disappointing to see the community like this.

On the bright side I’ll enjoy doing the JPs and have some fun ^^

I tested something and it worked.

If you’re in the Lions Arch overflow, and you do all three JP’s (Or at least walk in to get the point.) and wait for the Que and join. You can get all three points all over again, so each character (Assuming you have full slots, without gems.) will get around 6 points each, just in LA. Use all five slots, and you get….

Thirty.