The jumping puzzles provided in the game by the programmers although very challenging lack the crucial “fun” ingredient and intelligent approach where the skills and knowledge you acquired with your character leveling up to 80 are useless , null and void
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.
And then there is the inclines…sometimes you can walk up that steep incline and sometimes you cant. More guess work.
To make matters worst it is often ridiculously unclear where to go next and what obstacle will support you. With the number of critical jumping moves required to achieve your destination, the process quickly turns to frustration. It certainly appears that the puzzles were designed as a stall tactic and not designed for entertainment.
The bottom line is simply this. I like to be rewarded for learning and then applying my knowledge to my character move limitations to solve the puzzle instead of watching someone on youtube post the route after countless hours and endless attempts of finally guessing the correct path.
Just like Jarvis I have to respectfully disagree. I quite enjoy Jumping Puzzles, even the harder ones such as the Ember Bay one and Scavenger’s Chasm. The rewards suck, yeah, but I don’t do them for the rewards.
I also disagree. Especially that the height and distance you can jump is unpredictable.
It does take practice to get used to it, and it can seem different on different characters, but it is consistent. Personally I actually like doing puzzles on my norn because I find the distance she can jump is pretty close to what I could do in real life, so it’s easier for me to gauge what she can do. But I know other people like to use asura because they’re less likely to get in the way of the camera, and they can seem like they’re moving faster.
On that note it’s also important to consider whether you’ve got any speed boosts when you jump. Some people love using them, personally I don’t. But they do change how far you can jump so if you’re sometimes doing a puzzle with them and sometimes without, especially if you’ve got a trait or a ranger pet or anything else that applies a boost randomly that will make it inconsistent.
Finding out where to go is also a matter of experience. With enough practice you can actually learn what surfaces you can stand on and which you can’t, and also how Anet tend to design puzzles – the two together make it much easier to work out the route. Although yes, new puzzles will often take some exploration and trial and error – that’s the puzzle part of jumping puzzles.
Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.
Never thought that i would have to say this to anyone, but
Lern to jump.
I do several jps partly daily (e.g. chalice of tears(CoT)) and i can definetly calculate how far a jump will go. If you can’t calculate that it’s your fault not the fault of the game.
The one single thing that i have to agree with to some degree is the thing with slopes not indicated as save ground in some newer JPs.
The only JPs without proper indication of the pass you should take are CoT and the new one (forgot the name).
Also you CAN utilise class knowledge. There are several JPs where you can use leaps/stability/blocks etc. to get trough some parts easier. There were even record runs for CoT. I personaly did one in 5 mins with all checkpoints, the latest record was 3.5 mins but without all checkpoints i think.
If you need help with some JPs i might help you, but don’t blame the game for something that you can’t do.
If you are new, it may seem there are discrepancies (in jumps/characters, etc.). After 4 or 5 years, you will find there are not. It’s just a matter of practice and familiarity.
The jumping puzzles provided in the game by the programmers although very challenging lack the crucial “fun” ingredient and intelligent approach where the skills and knowledge you acquired with your character leveling up to 80 are useless , null and void
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.
And then there is the inclines…sometimes you can walk up that steep incline and sometimes you cant. More guess work.
To make matters worst it is often ridiculously unclear where to go next and what obstacle will support you. With the number of critical jumping moves required to achieve your destination, the process quickly turns to frustration. It certainly appears that the puzzles were designed as a stall tactic and not designed for entertainment.
The bottom line is simply this. I like to be rewarded for learning and then applying my knowledge to my character move limitations to solve the puzzle instead of watching someone on youtube post the route after countless hours and endless attempts of finally guessing the correct path.
Michael
I completely agree. l find it stupid that you can never tell whether you can actually make a jump until you try. You should be able to tell based on experience.
it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol
JP’s are going to be favored content for some, but not for others. There is no harm in their being content not aimed at everyone. The only issues I have with JP’s are: sometimes it seems like the difficulty is based around limitations of the engine — like when you cannot see adequately due to your character being up against a wall; and the gliding thing — though at least if the glider will activate in a puzzle, I don’t die when I miss the spot I aimed at.
Jumping puzzles could have some improvement. 2 Things especially:
1. When close to an object camera zooms in and I’m unable to see the environment and where to jump at all. And yes, I tried all camera settings.
2. Add more ‘saveguard’ spots when proceeding: when you missjump continue at the latest ‘saveguard’ spot. It’s soo annoying to have to start over from the beginning…
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past.
It not height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walkable space, and so on.
Add the fact that the self-readjusting camera angle and zoom is making you feel nauseous, and you have the perfect recipe for frustration. I always enter a new JP with enthusiasm (because, basically, I do like JPs) only to be reminded of the cruelty of the design flaws.
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.
And then there is the inclines…sometimes you can walk up that steep incline and sometimes you cant. More guess work.
To make matters worst it is often ridiculously unclear where to go next and what obstacle will support you. With the number of critical jumping moves required to achieve your destination, the process quickly turns to frustration.
I would have to disagree with this. When I first started playing I did really struggle with jumping puzzles, even the easy ones. I found it hard gauging jump distances, heights etc but with time and practice you do learn how far you can jump, how high and what the characters limitations are. The max height and distance aren’t random, but obviously the terrain, jump angles, speed, platform heights etc will add variances you have to account for.
But it’s defieintly possible to learn what sort of jumps you can make, as I said I was awful at even basic jumping sections, but now I’m at the point where I can comfortably judge if I’m able to make a jump before attempting it. You do reach the stage where you know what you can and can’t make.
As for the routes, they are meant as puzzles which does mean working them out. But personally I think most of them are pretty straightforward or fairy easy to see the route through. Off the top of my head only ones like Ember Bay, the Silverwastes one, and whichever one that is with the 12 orbs are ones with unclear routes.
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past.
It not height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walk-able space, and so on.
Add the fact that the self-readjusting camera angle and zoom is making you feel nauseous, and you have the perfect recipe for frustration. I always enter a new JP with enthusiasm (because, basically, I do like JPs) only to be reminded of the cruelty of the design flaws.
I understand what you are saying about the walking surface of some areas in JPs. The Spiral one in the Sylvari starter map comes to mind when I was doing that my first few times. It got so bad I ended up NOT walking at any part and just jumped the entire way.
Heck even regular areas in the game that have nothing to do with JPS can be like this. Drytop has a good example with that vine bridge when you first approach it. Again here I suggest just jumping the entire length of it instead of walking. Another nasty area where you can see this is in the Bloodstone Fen map. The very bottom layer of the map where you have to go for the LS is very bad here. You pretty much can’t even walk/run it as the ground is so uneven. You have to jump along or glide, very lazy design tbh.
In fact your reply here reminded me I felt like ranting one day about this very issue. I was going to compare the walk-able surfaces to those in GW1. They are FAR FAR better there. But then again I guess we could not jump so the devs had to put in a lot more work to make sure there were no issues. Perhaps they just got (dare I say the nasty “L” word here?) lazy for gw2? Or perhaps they think the walking surface in the game should also be semi challenging because we do have the jump ability?
Either/or I don’t like it very much.
For people who have issues with this, especially in JPS I suggest practicing your jump any and every chance you get. Especially when not even doing jps or even thinking about them. Stop running/walking everywhere in game. Make it a habit to jump everywhere or if you see something like a fence or low wall make it a habit to jump along it as you go on your way. Try and stay on it without falling off. Believe it or not silly little things like this can actually help you get better at the jumping mechanic in the game and will help somewhat when you actually do jps.
Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?
Jumping puzzles are some of my favorite content in the game. And they’re popular.
As a person who lived in Tombraider for a long time, I can tell you that other games don’t necesssarily do it better. There were plenty of jumps in tombraider and other games like Prince of Persia where it looks like you can’t make it and you can. Figuring it out is part of the game. Removing that uncertainty would make jumping puzzles less interesting for me.
The only jp’s i get messed up on sometimes are the special event ones. Like wintersday or Sab. Some of those snowflakes i’ve made the jump 10 times in a row, then the 11th time jumping from same spot same height i fail cuz of the invisble wall around them. Same with in sab some of those bushes you jump from have those weird invisible walls. So you’ll make it most of the time when you learn them, but once in awhile and usually when you need to you’ll hit or clip them and die lol.
I love the jumping puzzles, and I think there’s a great deal of variety, from pure skill (Clocktower) to explorer (Draconis Mons) to puzzler (Professor Portmatt’s Lab) and some that allow gliding and some that don’t…. It’s one of the best parts of the game.
It’s not a height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walk-able space, and so on.
Add the fact that the self-readjusting camera angle and zoom is making you feel nauseous, and you have the perfect recipe for frustration. I always enter a new JP with enthusiasm (because, basically, I do like JPs) only to be reminded of the cruelty of the design flaws.
I understand what you are saying about the walking surface of some areas in JPs.
Actually, I wasn’t talking just about JPs but the whole game, as you stated yourself you find those design flaws everywhere. I love JPs, I just dislike the general design flaws of walkable paths and texture issues, which become especially hindering when you are doing a JP. I finished them all, and I love playing the game in spite of this frustrating element, but I dare say that it would be a lot better if things acted the way they look. Now half of the skill of mastering any terrain is knowing the area/map well, so you know how to approach a certain spot when you are climbing/jumping on/walking it.
Edit: P.S. Just an hour ago, I was cursing the designers again over this, as my warrior got stuck while fighting Embers is Draconis Mons on a spot that looked perfectly fine to navigate. When I tried to dodge their AoEs, however, I would roll on the same spot, not moving an inch. GG.
The jumping puzzles provided in the game by the programmers although very challenging lack the crucial “fun” ingredient and intelligent approach where the skills and knowledge you acquired with your character leveling up to 80 are useless , null and void
Its all a matter of guess work on what you should try and try and try again. There is no consistency in the height or distance your character can travel. So we never really get to know the limitations to our character. To be able to establish with confidence “I can jump this distance or i can jump this height”. ..You can find yourself jumping to a height destination never possible before and fail at a height destination previously accomplished numerous times in the past. The same goes for distance.
And then there is the inclines…sometimes you can walk up that steep incline and sometimes you cant. More guess work.
To make matters worst it is often ridiculously unclear where to go next and what obstacle will support you. With the number of critical jumping moves required to achieve your destination, the process quickly turns to frustration. It certainly appears that the puzzles were designed as a stall tactic and not designed for entertainment.
The bottom line is simply this. I like to be rewarded for learning and then applying my knowledge to my character move limitations to solve the puzzle instead of watching someone on youtube post the route after countless hours and endless attempts of finally guessing the correct path.
Michael
I completely agree. l find it stupid that you can never tell whether you can actually make a jump until you try. You should be able to tell based on experience.
You can… very easily after a while.
When I did all of the jumping puzzles in the game in a row for the AP, I was pretty bad at judging whether or not I’d make a jump at the beginning. However, as I got closer to the last of the puzzles, I was falling way less.
I’m not a fan. But the annoying thing is a lot of mastery points are locked behind them or collections are dotted around in them- hence my annoyance at not being able to do them.
The other annoying issue is long ones, where you lose waypoints if you happen to log off, which means next time you miss a jump or fall off you have to start over- which is just time to log something different before you damage something.
WvW player. Doing another world completion for my next Legendary. Hater of mini-games.
Sounds like the first jp that OP did was the one in Draconis Mons
Because what he says is sort of true for Draconis Mons
The new mastery jumps always bring you up a to a bit different heights
(Not as consistant like regular jumps who are 100% precise)
You cannot predict where to go and its just luck sometimes wether you have to restart or you found the right way
That is bad design i think (with more checkpoints it could be ok i guess)
While i really appreciate the work that Josh put into the last 2 big jumping puzzles i would much rather have jps where the path is a bit more clear and instead the jumps are hard Perfect example of a challenging jp: Mad Kings Clock tower
The path is rather clear but you have to jump precisely to not fall down
The time pressure makes sure you dont cheese your way through the challenge
It not height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walkable space, and so on.
Agreed. The lack of conveyance by the terrain in both jumping puzzles and HoT’s Adventures are very much the reason I don’t them often.
Add on that most of these things ranged from pitiful to cruel in their humane design considerations, and I’m reminded why most other platformers have better level design. The devs are so busy trying make things “Nintendo hard” that they’ve forgotten some now-basic game design concepts, with Chalice of Tears being some of the laziest and/or willfully ignorant among them.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
For me it depends.
GW2s jumping mechanics are not the best. It’s floating and a little unwieldy. It’s no Mario game. On top of a sometimes incredibly poor camera system that doesn’t help at all.
However, most of the puzzles are still fun to do.
There ARE however some that were designed to be very “precise”, which end up just being less about a challenge and satisfying puzzle and an infuriating fight against the mechanics of the jumping and collision detection.
I always find that in a video game, if you stop “playing” the game and end up just fighting the mechanics and thinking how the code of it works, it’s stops being fun and stops being good design. This can be with movement, camera systems, AI etc.
The one on Ember Bay is a good example. Most of it is you simply fighting the camera and poor collision on what is and isn’t an area you can stand on.
It not height/length issue, but a severe issue with textures in this game. I can’t count the numerous times I cursed the devs because I couldn’t walk over a flat bump, slipped off a ledge because the texture displayed didn’t equal the walkable space, and so on.
Agreed. The lack of conveyance by the terrain in both jumping puzzles and HoT’s Adventures are very much the reason I don’t them often.
Add on that most of these things ranged from pitiful to cruel in their humane design considerations, and I’m reminded why most other platformers have better level design. The devs are so busy trying make things “Nintendo hard” that they’ve forgotten some now-basic game design concepts, with Chalice of Tears being some of the laziest and/or willfully ignorant among them.
Chalice of Tears was said by Anet to be intended to “make players cry”. Presumably they (Josh?) decided that the way to make that JP really difficult is to not show any kind of path, and not allow the players to guess which terrain they can safely land on and which terrain they can’t. Not having terrain that is consistent with the rest of the game simply makes this JP more “fail until you get it right”. Unfortunately “failing” in this puzzle often = death so it is more annoying than many.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
it’s this luck based mystic toilet that we’re all so sick of flushing our money down. -Salamol
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
Chalice of Tears was said by Anet to be intended to “make players cry”. Presumably they (Josh?) decided that the way to make that JP really difficult is to not show any kind of path, and not allow the players to guess which terrain they can safely land on and which terrain they can’t. Not having terrain that is consistent with the rest of the game simply makes this JP more “fail until you get it right”. Unfortunately “failing” in this puzzle often = death so it is more annoying than many.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
If that’s the case, I have a recommendation for him.
For his next paycheck, he has to complete Super Meat Boy, except when his little squishy avatar gets murdered, he doesn’t get the instant reset, but instead has to run around the ANet campus before his next iteration. Then maybe some elements of humane design might sink in, instead of antagonizing the players with deliberately defying recognized conventions of good design. :\
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
which jp is required to complete a map?
None of them are required for map completion.
Maybe you need to go take a look at the HOT maps again.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
which jp is required to complete a map?
None of them are required for map completion.
Wall Breach Blitz (the big wall in Diessa) has atleast one vista and a heropoint at the end. It was the first jp i ever completed in this game and the one who motivated me to find all of them.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
which jp is required to complete a map?
None of them are required for map completion.
A number are actually, including Skip up the Volcano in Ember Bay. Even if you limit it to the old world there are at least a couple.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
I totally agree with this. JPs where originally optional content, now they are required just to complete a map. More and more content locked behind them and made harder and harder.
which jp is required to complete a map?
None of them are required for map completion.
Wall Breach Blitz (the big wall in Diessa) has atleast one vista and a heropoint at the end. It was the first jp i ever completed in this game and the one who motivated me to find all of them.
Tribulation Point is another one. Vista at the top of the second scaffolding.
There’s others out there too, so it’s not like it’s an exception. Though, in general, I don’t mind JPs being a part of exploration.
That doesn’t stop my general gripes about slippery slopes, badly conveyed terrain, and the occasional head-bump ruining them for me.
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
I also disagree. Especially that the height and distance you can jump is unpredictable.
You’re somewhat wrong to disagree, on a factual level.
With the way collision works in GW2, the difference between making it up onto something and not can often be non-visible. It’s very easy to demonstrate this – for example in Ember Bay, I can jump up out of the lava onto stuff that looks like it’s 3-4 ft high. Whereas in the old world zones you’d be lucky to make it on to something that’s 2.5ft high, from water/lava. And it’s not just water/lava, but all the jumping there. It’s not consistent.
Jump distance is largely consistent, but even then whether you will actually get on to the thing you were jumping at, esp. if it is above you, is not entirely consistent.
Chalice of Tears was said by Anet to be intended to “make players cry”. Presumably they (Josh?) decided that the way to make that JP really difficult is to not show any kind of path, and not allow the players to guess which terrain they can safely land on and which terrain they can’t. Not having terrain that is consistent with the rest of the game simply makes this JP more “fail until you get it right”. Unfortunately “failing” in this puzzle often = death so it is more annoying than many.
I personally wouldn’t even comment on JPs if they didn’t have content locked behind them. If they were purely optional, I wouldn’t care how hard they were as I would simply not do them.
If that’s the case, I have a recommendation for him.
For his next paycheck, he has to complete Super Meat Boy, except when his little squishy avatar gets murdered, he doesn’t get the instant reset, but instead has to run around the ANet campus before his next iteration. Then maybe some elements of humane design might sink in, instead of antagonizing the players with deliberately defying recognized conventions of good design. :\
You might consider watching the latest Guild Chat to hear what Josh Foreman has to say about Jumping Puzzles and their design.
At least, I think is was in the latest Guild Chat. If not, it was in a podcast he did some time ago. (Link found on the Divinity’s Reach Wiki page.)
JPs certainly suck if you are a Norn. The camera control is appalling. I’m happy for JPs to be in the game but I don’t think there should be any mastery points gated by them.
Hold up, use a cat or mini potion (endless if available) I swear it helps. I use a mini cat tonic. It makes it SO much easier to see and jump. That or get the experimental rifle. Use it with a mesmer/chrono and portal your way up.
Now half of the skill of mastering any terrain is knowing the area/map well, so you know how to approach a certain spot when you are climbing/jumping on/walking it.
