Just drop Elite Hero Costs down to 1 already

Just drop Elite Hero Costs down to 1 already

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

You know it’s going to happen. Why fight the inevitable? There’s no reason at all for players to have to do 10 times the work for .01 times the reward. So just drop it now, happy player base.

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Posted by: Farzo.8410

Farzo.8410

Because progression is something that has existed in every expansion ever in every MMORPG there is.

I didn’t have all my spells and skills in World of Warcraft when I levelled in the new expansions.

I got them as I gradually levelled up.

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Posted by: Snarftastic.6709

Snarftastic.6709

We should just have every MMORPG start you at max level with top gear.

Problem solved.

Oh wait…

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Yeah so both of you missed the point, what’s the justification for doing 10 times the work (in some cases 20 times the work, for no reflective reward)

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

We should just have every MMORPG start you at max level with top gear.

Problem solved.

Oh wait…

And other than elites, you can do this right now in GW2. You can start a new character level them to 80, unlock all other abilities, fully equip yourself. And… that’s it. So don’t give me these other arguments like this.

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Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

Getting the skills is the reward. If you feel like its work without reward, then there’s no reason to do it.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Getting the skills is the reward. If you feel like its work without reward, then there’s no reason to do it.

What is the justification for 10x the cost?

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Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

Getting the skills is the reward. If you feel like its work without reward, then there’s no reason to do it.

What is the justification for 10x the cost?

To give you something to do. Turns out that’s the entire point of a game.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

Because the vast majority of ppl want to work for their rewards/progression etc. It is about finding that right balance. I think Anet have come pretty close with this iteration.

The game has been out 3 years and is taking the natural assumption players will have or will work towards 100% mmap completion. From full completion you then require 4 hero points in HoT. That is not 10x as much work.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

what’s the justification for doing 10 times the work (in some cases 20 times the work, for no reflective reward)

10 x nothing is still nothing

They could make elite specs cost 1 point, but spoiler, that 1 point would be a new currency only used for that 1 elite and it would be given from the completion of the story.

Masteries and the elite spec is actually what GW2 used to be like before tomes and skill point scrolls existed. Originally, you had to level to unlock your tiers of skills and do skill challenges to gain points to unlock those skills. If you didn’t do skill challenges, you didn’t have enough points to buy all your skills. Unlike hero points however, you could gain a skill point for leveling at 80.

What is the justification for 10x the cost?

5x the cost (60 for traits, ~20 for the 4 skills) and HoT hero challenges give 10x the reward. The point was so that you actually had to play through HoT. Even at the regular cost, that would have required 80 hero challenges in Tyria. Should they have forced people to complete the old content or do a bit of the new content? 80 vs 25 hero challenges (40 originally).

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Posted by: Iozeph.5617

Iozeph.5617

From what I’d gathered the Elite weren’t being billed as the progression. It was the masteries. So why wouldn’t players want to have their dubiously-named elite skills in order to pursue the masteries? The notion being that the content was so enjoyable that exploration of the new lands and the following discoveries, as well as the furtherance of the story – would be their own rewards. Then there are the new crafting recipe drops.

But skills? As it is, you could play the whole of the four new maps and never set a single point into an elite skill(for many professions this is preferable) so where is the progression there?

TLDR; Elite skills are skills. Masteries, the living story elements, and new crafting recipes showcase progression.

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Posted by: Godmoney.2048

Godmoney.2048

I’m fine with 250 points. It’s not too much for a few alts and enough to at least force your mains into HOT.

Seems in the sweet spot you ask me.

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Posted by: Dante.1763

Dante.1763

Im fine with 250, more than happy, and i have 14 alts to get it on.

The pvp community reminds me of what Obi-kittenenobi describes Mos Eisley as from star wars.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

We should just have every MMORPG start you at max level with top gear.

Problem solved.

Oh wait…

And other than elites, you can do this right now in GW2. You can start a new character level them to 80, unlock all other abilities, fully equip yourself. And… that’s it. So don’t give me these other arguments like this.

Except that wasn’t the way it was designed but the result of them not thinking it through when they changed skill points to hero points/spirt shards.

Look at the game’s history, if you don’t remember it….

After the switch to hero points/spirit shards they were going to make everyone who hadn’t done the skill points run around and get all the ones needed to unlock their level 80. It was only after a lot of protests from people who were playing with fully unlocked chars before the change over (from getting skill points after leveling) that they changed it again to level 80s being completely unlocked.

The new level 80s being completely unlocked for core is an unwanted result of having to unlock level 80 chars for people who had been already unlocked before the hero point change. It’s not because that’s what they want for their game. It’s because they didn’t think of the consequences of the change to older level 80s, or they discounted it.

If they hadn’t had changed the skill points to hero/spirit just a short while ago and then changed again in response to old level 80s having to unlock twice, your new level 80 would be running around getting skill points to unlock the core also. You lucked out with the change and don’t have to do more hero points to unlock your new level 80 completely, but it was an unwanted result, not something originally intended.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

I’m satisfied with the drop to 250 total cost. It feels much more achievable. Specifically, it also gives you roughly 1 new trait or skill per HoT Hero Challenge, making the progression much more tangible.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

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Posted by: TJgalon.5012

TJgalon.5012

Feels a bit easy now, but the 250 needed, and even bonus if your alts have done hero challenges in core maps, so even less, seem a fair trade off, for the people who really wanted them sooner.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

If the design team had any sense. They would have left them at 1 per. You already have mastery grinds for the people that want to pve, the wvw people would been able to continue as normal.

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Posted by: Gathslan.1870

Gathslan.1870

They cut the cost in half, yet people are still crying.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
You really cannot please everyone can you.

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Posted by: ragnarokda.1805

ragnarokda.1805

It literally takes me about an hour or two to unlock an elite spec…

My mastery level is 20…. I still have a LONG WAY to level masteries and guess what… I have my elite spec unlocked to do it.

Not sure why people are complaining. I’m really glad every thread like this is met with LOADS of people who disagree and who are enjoying the game. I’m LOVING HoT. Whiners can suck it.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

I really haven’t seen anyone complaining in-game about the 250. Everyone is pretty happy with that number actually.

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Posted by: Sola.7250

Sola.7250

MMO’s should have a good balance of short, medium and long term player goals. Anet didn’t do a good job developing and defining them in HoT.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

I really haven’t seen anyone complaining in-game about the 250. Everyone is pretty happy with that number actually.

Then you haven’t been in wvw. Where you get maybe 1 rank an hour.

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Posted by: Duke Nukem.6783

Duke Nukem.6783

so lets take the grind out of the least grindy game there is for an mmo? no thank you , i got 99 woodcutting in runescape and im dam sure gana get all the elites

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Posted by: Andred.1087

Andred.1087

Yeah so both of you missed the point, what’s the justification for doing 10 times the work (in some cases 20 times the work, for no reflective reward)

Seems you’re missing the point of the entire game, or any game. Tell me, what are you going to do with those rewards when you get them? Trick question, the answer is nothing, because they aren’t real. If you’re playing for the rewards, you’re wasting your time.

“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

I really haven’t seen anyone complaining in-game about the 250. Everyone is pretty happy with that number actually.

Then you haven’t been in wvw. Where you get maybe 1 rank an hour.

Yeah, I haven’t spent much time in WvW since the expansion, but to be fair, when I’ve been out in the desert borderlands, there’s been next to no people out there. Hard to earn points when no one is playing.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Yeah so both of you missed the point, what’s the justification for doing 10 times the work (in some cases 20 times the work, for no reflective reward)

Seems you’re missing the point of the entire game, or any game. Tell me, what are you going to do with those rewards when you get them? Trick question, the answer is nothing, because they aren’t real. If you’re playing for the rewards, you’re wasting your time.

Do whatever I want? Actually get to go play the game? Spend all my time in WvW like I want on a complete character?

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Posted by: mXz.4512

mXz.4512

Do you really want to see NPE 2.0 (New Player Experience)? I doubt many people do, I wouldn’t. So no changes to the mastery system is necessary right now, just fixes for the current bugs to make things much smoother.

Then, after the current problems are dealt with and out of the way, move on down the checklist.

Yes I’m a vet, yes I’m salty. Problem?

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Posted by: Rpgtabbycat.5869

Rpgtabbycat.5869

If you don’t have a goal to work towards, the game gets boring.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Here you go. Guides to a bunch of 10 point places. Most or either soloable or needs only two people. If you have trouble with those, you can always ask for help.

http://dulfy.net/2015/10/25/gw2-verdant-brinks-hero-points-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/10/26/gw2-auric-basin-hero-points-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/10/27/gw2-tangled-depths-hero-points-guide/

You can either spend your time making threads and posts about it or get it done and get on with your life. Your choice.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

If you don’t have a goal to work towards, the game gets boring.

Only to PvE’ers and they could have satisfied the ridiculous goal oriented pve’er with the mastery system, instead of putting the burden on pvp’ers with the talent system.

I’ve been playing since alpha, and you’ve never, ever had to pve to for progress. Ever.

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Posted by: Sthenith.5196

Sthenith.5196

1. the game isn’t aimed at just one group like PvE or WvW or PvP’ers. the game is aimed at the ‘average’ player meaning they’re trying to reach the most players possible.

2. The intention is that you progress through the storyline (a part of the game), explore the new maps with the new mobs and bosses. all the while ‘collecting’ your challenges and hero points to unlock everything you need.

3. After you’ve done that, you can choose to go PvE and farm stuff you want, do events and whatnot, or go into WvW or go PvP.

Everyone can find something to complain about, but you have to look at the bigger picture. I don’t like to PvP at all, ever. But you don’t see me complaining about that part of the game that others enjoy. Or you don’t see me complaing about the occasional step i set into WvW.

If you only focus on one part of the game, that is your choice. But don’t blame just one group of gamers for the choices you make.

You can’t please every single gamer or group. I didn’t and don’t blame the dungeon runners just because i hate the dungeons. I explored those once, never to enter again. Which basically means i give up on legendaries (unless i would buy em), and i’m fine with that.
Make a choice, live with it. Don’t like it, go play tetris or something because you’re never going to get ‘exactly’ what you want.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

Im fine with 250, more than happy, and i have 14 alts to get it on.

I’m also fine with 250 and I have just as many character slots, it doesn’t feel like we are punished for buying character slots anymore.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

1. the game isn’t aimed at just one group like PvE or WvW or PvP’ers. the game is aimed at the ‘average’ player meaning they’re trying to reach the most players possible.

2. The intention is that you progress through the storyline (a part of the game), explore the new maps with the new mobs and bosses. all the while ‘collecting’ your challenges and hero points to unlock everything you need.

3. After you’ve done that, you can choose to go PvE and farm stuff you want, do events and whatnot, or go into WvW or go PvP.

Everyone can find something to complain about, but you have to look at the bigger picture. I don’t like to PvP at all, ever. But you don’t see me complaining about that part of the game that others enjoy. Or you don’t see me complaing about the occasional step i set into WvW.

If you only focus on one part of the game, that is your choice. But don’t blame just one group of gamers for the choices you make.

You can’t please every single gamer or group. I didn’t and don’t blame the dungeon runners just because i hate the dungeons. I explored those once, never to enter again. Which basically means i give up on legendaries (unless i would buy em), and i’m fine with that.
Make a choice, live with it. Don’t like it, go play tetris or something because you’re never going to get ‘exactly’ what you want.

Are you required to run dungeons for your elite spec? Are you required to run WvW for Map Completion?

Hell, even before tomes of knowledge you could level to 80 through crafting and never ever touch pve. How would you like it if you had to craft all the way to your new elite?

Ridiculous system is ridiculous. Just because it caters to YOUR play style doesn’t make it right. You already have a mastery system to add your beloved tedium.

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

Umm. You did used to have to do WvW for map completion. They took it out because they put in the new map and the old and new maps are not equal in difficulty (they announced the new map and then later took out map completion requirement) If they hadn’t put in the new map then it still would be required.

And when you used to level to 80 through crafting before tomes, you had to run around and get skill points to unlock your char or play long enough to level enough times to get enough skill points

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

(edited by Just a flesh wound.3589)

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Posted by: Stasticeel.2745

Stasticeel.2745

To the ones with 14 alts, did you get those in the first week playing GW2? No? That must have been an awful grind getting all those tomes of knowledges and in the early days buying those training books for your traits. Just awful really!

I think you should all get full ascended armour, 2K gems and a legendary of your choice for that inane awful grind you did to get to those alts.

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Posted by: Scolix.4879

Scolix.4879

I don’t get the whining about the points i started new engineer on monday now he is level 80 and has all the things unlocked even the scrapper so it took a week of halfa** gameplay mixing with crafting and doing quests to get the character to 80 and then collecting HP from new zones.

But i guess that people are just lazy as kitten

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Posted by: Just a flesh wound.3589

Just a flesh wound.3589

To the ones with 14 alts, did you get those in the first week playing GW2? No? That must have been an awful grind getting all those tomes of knowledges and in the early days buying those training books for your traits. Just awful really!

I think you should all get full ascended armour, 2K gems and a legendary of your choice for that inane awful grind you did to get to those alts.

It’s been so long that I don’t remember the exact time, but I it took me about 6 to 8 months back then to get my 8 level 80s. It then took me another year and a half to craft all the ascended weapons for each and to get enough laurels at one a day for all the ascended trinkets. I finally finished gearing then up in the early part of this year.

It took me over 2 years to complete my chars so this guys argument that he needs it all NAOW fails to move me.

Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.

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Posted by: Albadaran.1283

Albadaran.1283

Opp, if you find the reward too small for so much effort, than simply don’t do it. It just happened for ascended armor as well (increased crafting materials making it much more expensive) and this is simply the way mmo’s are using over and over to keep people playing. Sometimes I really long back to the time players could not craft at all but just found +1 to +3 items in AD&D games. The way it is now, crafting does not really add anymore to gameplay, it only makes it last longer. Anyway, in GW2 it hardly matters what you wear or use, as long as it is level 80. So… Take it or leave it.

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Posted by: SilverDragon.3912

SilverDragon.3912

Please don’t nerf them again. I am at 48% through my spec and am currently enjoying the challenge of unlocking masteries so i can get to the rest of the hero challenges for points. Once was enough again is too much.

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

Please don’t nerf them again. I am at 48% through my spec and am currently enjoying the challenge of unlocking masteries so i can get to the rest of the hero challenges for points. Once was enough again is too much.

They should move all the hero masteries to WvW so people have a reason to go back into WvW.

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Posted by: Star Ace.5207

Star Ace.5207

Getting the skills is the reward. If you feel like its work without reward, then there’s no reason to do it.

What is the justification for 10x the cost?

That’s your fallacious claim-the 10 gets .01 is not only non-factual, but troll-sounding. On that matter, this thread does nothing for the community.

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Posted by: SilverDragon.3912

SilverDragon.3912

Please don’t nerf them again. I am at 48% through my spec and am currently enjoying the challenge of unlocking masteries so i can get to the rest of the hero challenges for points. Once was enough again is too much.

They should move all the hero masteries to WvW so people have a reason to go back into WvW.

I happen to be an avid wvw player. don’t really need a reason to play when its my preferred method of play.

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Posted by: zaxziakohl.5243

zaxziakohl.5243

I’m not a WvW player. However I do think that over time you should have a way to get hero points by playing WvW. Maybe you already do and they just aren’t fast enough for you. Like I said, I don’t WvW.

But what I do know is that working for them in PvE actually serves a purpose. It makes us play the content. Which is kind of the point of the game…you know, to play….

And if we have to work for it, WvW should have to too.

And we SHOULD have to work for it. I remember spending time just going through all my weapons learning all the skills for each weapon so I could use it when I needed it way back when. Much less the unlocking skills people mentioned earlier. I remember being 80 and still having 2 elite skills left to unlock. That’s how it’s supposed to be. I’m glad they took us back to that at least a little.

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Posted by: runeblade.7514

runeblade.7514

I did hero points run for 13 of my characters. It got tedious really fast.

5x Warrior, 5x Ranger, 4x Elementalist, 4x Engineer,
4x Necromancer, 3x Mesmer, 4x Guardian, 4x Thief, 4 Revenant

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Posted by: Eponet.4829

Eponet.4829

I’m fine with 250 points given that the Maguuma points give 10.

I was only shocked at that sort of number prior to release where I assumed we’d need to spend dozens of hours world completing Tyria.

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Posted by: Widebody.5071

Widebody.5071

It never fails give folks an inch they come back asking a mile.
Can’t be a regular PVEer most of them are actually trying to learn the environment, builds and how to maximize their skills.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

We should just have every MMORPG start you at max level with top gear.

Problem solved.

Oh wait…

Actually, I’d like a game that offered that. However, I recognize that I’m in the minority, preferring that the vast majority of the game’s challenge be personal — how well I can improve against the environment, not how well my character can improve.

However, given that the vast majority of players prefer substantive in-game progression, then any such system has to involve substantive challenges. ANet tried individual, per trait challenges and that was a disaster. The current system for elite specs is a lot less tedious — there’s no particular order you need to follow.

My only suggestion would be to find a way to reduce the repetition for alts, perhaps via a mastery. For example, for characters 2+, reducing the He-Point costs or increasing the He-Points earned per challenge (perhaps up to a max amount per map, so alts end up with the same number of He-Points, they just won’t have to work as hard for them).

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: SoulstitchMMO.1396

SoulstitchMMO.1396

It never fails give folks an inch they come back asking a mile.
Can’t be a regular PVEer most of them are actually trying to learn the environment, builds and how to maximize their skills.

I love how all the pve’ers are totally fine with having to play the game they want to, but if Arenanet had put all the Hero Challenges in Keeps/Stonemist Castle, then they’d be here throwing a fit.

As I’ve repeatedly said. You already have mastery grind to satisfy your “character development” or “challenge” in pve. Adding the massive cost to elite skills, forcing wvw’ers to have to go and pve for any reasonable gains, has killed wvw, will continue to kill wvw as players are forced away from it to gain their hero points.

Try thinking about all the players before you automatically dismiss something that just happens to fit directly into your only limited play style.

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Posted by: Kichwas.7152

Kichwas.7152

Im fine with 250, more than happy, and i have 14 alts to get it on.

I have 9 alts. Why do you have the 5 extra? I ran out of classes to make toons for at 9.

I still have 1 unused character slot… so I’m actually curious here rather than critical.

http://kichwas.wordpress.com/ – GW2 Blog Presenting the Opposing View
JAH Bless – Equal Rights and Justice for all.
Justice And Honor – Tarnished Coast.

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Posted by: skeeman.3140

skeeman.3140

From what I’d gathered the Elite weren’t being billed as the progression. It was the masteries.

What? They named both masteries and elite specializations as their new progression systems since they first announced the expansion.

The official HoT web site says (emphasis theirs)

Specializations are our brand-new way for you to progress, unlock, and grow your character’s profession abilities, adding nine entirely new ways to play exclusive to Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns. Elite specializations allow you to evolve your existing level 80 characters by training the ability to use a new weapon, new traits, new skills, and a twist on your standard profession mechanic.

http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/specializations/