Guild Wars 2

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

Envy.1679:

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

Except it shouldnt. Im sorry, but if we can get legendary weapons through doing a scavenger hunt, armor should be no different. Ill be doing raids dont get me wrong, but i dont think, and from what i see said, that it will be the only way, thank goodness for that.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.”

Nothing else will be challenging enough to merit the same reward as the most challenging thing in the game.

It’s more like “We’re not going to give you the same reward as players who are completing the hardest content in the game”

Pvp, WvW, open world content, dungeons, can all be farmed easily.

But when it comes to raid, im quoting a dev here, “We thought how hard can we make raids without them being literally impossible”

If you are suggesting you should get the same rewards with less effort, thats your own entitlement issue, nobody else’s. This is a reward that actually means you DID something. Not afk farmed for a few months.

I simply stated that I wanted more acquisition options, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Except that nothing else is going to be a hard as raids and there definitely something is wrong with that since thats the case.

You dont see everybody farming 45+ fractals (successfully) and how long have they been out? yes there are people who can do them no problem, but theres plenty who cant and die in even lower level fractals repeatedly. Why should they get the same rewards?

Claiming that Raids are just going to be mindlessly easy is just stupid. That claim comes from someone whos grasping at straws because they dont want to lose an argument. End of story.

This completely boils down to “you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ‘x’” and I’m sorry, but that’s YOUR issue.

We don’t know what how hard or not raids will be. Given the comments that have been made, Anet contradicts themselves regarding their difficulty, so I wouldn’t get hopes too high. People thought dungeons were kittence too. People thought fractals were difficult once upon a time. Look at them now. Speed clear fodder. Yes, even lvl 45+.

You keep going on and on about difficulty. Things could be added to PvE, WvW, et all to make working towards a legendary gear set via those means hard, tedious, and equally grindy. Novel concept, I know. I’ll repeat, I’m not advocating making the other options easier.

TO EACH THEIR OWN. Let other’s play how they desire to play. Locking what Anet put forth as the ‘ultimate end game’ carrot behind raids (which are only ONE TYPE of endgame not THE endgame) is wrong.

""you’re not special snowflake enough unless you do ’x’" "

Thats actually exactly the case

You’ve said it as a dysphemism , but yes. You dont deserve the reward since you didnt do the hardest content available.

Deal with it.

Ah yes, there’s that elitist, exclusionist, special snowflake attitude we all love.

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Hardly entitled.

What part of “I’ll be in line dipping my toes in the pond too” from a previous post did you not understand?

How about where I repeatedly state that other methods should be equally hard, tedious, and grindy?

I have essentially stated time and again that I am willing to work my kitten off to achieve this goal, and I’ll even be trying the raids.

However, I am playing devil’s advocate for those people that don’t enjoy instanced content like dungeons, fractals, or raids. For the people that only play WvW. For people that only pvp. It is not ok to tell those people to go kitten themselves.

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

Except it shouldnt. Im sorry, but if we can get legendary weapons through doing a scavenger hunt, armor should be no different. Ill be doing raids dont get me wrong, but i dont think, and from what i see said, that it will be the only way, thank goodness for that.

If something else that is as challenging as raids comes along, then yeah. But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

“Should/shouldnt” are just opinions anyway. But obviously, Its my opinion that anybody who thinks they deserve the same reward for doing something less challenging than raids is just being spoiled and entitled

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

Legendary Fractal Back announced, legendary pvp back.

They have already started with the multiple ways to get legendary tier items. Sure, raiding will have one, but I am willing to bet, that with time, there will be different ways to get legendary armor.

Just look at how ascended is now. You can craft it, get it as a drop or purchase (some pieces) with laurels/other currencies. Sure, one way is most efficient, but with precedent already established chances are they will take the same route with Legendary armor.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

Given that we have no idea how hard raids will be, and we have no idea what late game content in HoT is like, how can we claim there is no equivalent? Beyond that, why could something equivalent (that is not an instanced raid) not be added?

Telemin.7380:

Legendary Fractal Back announced, legendary pvp back.

They have already started with the multiple ways to get legendary tier items. Sure, raiding will have one, but I am willing to bet, that with time, there will be different ways to get legendary armor.

Just look at how ascended is now. You can craft it, get it as a drop or purchase (some pieces) with laurels/other currencies. Sure, one way is most efficient, but with precedent already established chances are they will take the same route with Legendary armor.

Ascended really isn’t a good example. When it comes to armor and weapons, its rng or crafting. Those are your options, despite the repeated outcry for more options.

Now, all that said, yes we have the legendary backpack in fractals and pvp. I’d like to see a specific unique legendary backpack added to the raids, and uniquely skinned legendary armors added as fractal and pvp rewards (or their crafting components, whatever). And maybe with time we’ll see that. However, until they explicitly state that legendary armor sets aren’t locked specifically to raiding rewards only, I will continue to be concerned.

Honestly, I’d actually love them to take it one step further and have not only a full armor set and backpack, but a matching themed legendary weapon set as well. Asking a bit much, sure, but it’s something they could add as ‘additional’ rewards as time progresses. Thus giving some additional longevity to the assorted play modes.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

Given that we have no idea how hard raids will be, and we have no idea what late game content in HoT is like, how can we claim there is no equivalent? Beyond that, why could something equivalent (that is not an instanced raid) not be added?

Quoting a dev. “When we designed raids we thought, how hard can we make these without them being literally impossible?”

Pretty safe to assume theyre going to be hard.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

The only possible thing I can think of is the new leaderboard for PvP and it awarding you something for reaching a certain spot on the ladder.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

And Envy, that’s exactly what Lanfear is SAYING. That they should put in OTHER means to get Legendary Armor that is as equally difficult and time consuming. And that they should have different skins.

I don’t think that content will come at launch or within 6 months of it (they want players to try raids after all), but I’d imagine that as new content comes out and they start adding the next LS seasons after players have had a chance to do the HoT personal story, that they may add in means to get more legendary armor.

Envy.1679:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

Given that we have no idea how hard raids will be, and we have no idea what late game content in HoT is like, how can we claim there is no equivalent? Beyond that, why could something equivalent (that is not an instanced raid) not be added?

Quoting a dev. “When we designed raids we thought, how hard can we make these without them being literally impossible?”

Pretty safe to assume theyre going to be hard.

And yet Colin stated that they want them to appeal to the majority of players, similarly to how FoW and UW did. There was the comment made that they don’t want them to be puggable, but again, they reference FoW, UW, and DoA, which were completely puggable. At best that’s rather wishy-washy on how hard they actually are.

Edit: Loling at the other comments. It really does seem like we’re arguing for the sheer sake of arguing. We’re essentially on the same page with there being other sets as long as their acquisition is equally difficult. Though you do come of as they should only be raid rewards. Period. Other hard content or not.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

No I dont agree with her.

She may have changed her story later on, but this was the post that im arguing against.

“Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them."

No where in there did she suggest including additional content on the same difficulty level as Raids. Since there is no other content on the same difficulty level as raids It’s safe to conclude that the sentiment was “even though raids are the hardest thing in the game, I’d still prefer if there was some other way to obtain legendary items.”

If she changed her tone later on, thats her agreeing with me, not the other way around.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

No I dont agree with her.

She may have changed her story later on, but this was the post that im arguing against.

“Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them."

No where in there did she suggest including additional content on the same difficulty level as Raids.

And later on she did, so maybe read all of the posts in a thread carefully before jumping in?

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

No I dont agree with her.

She may have changed her story later on, but this was the post that im arguing against.

“Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them."

No where in there did she suggest including additional content on the same difficulty level as Raids.

Conversely, I never said it should be easier either. That was an assumption.

Seera.5916:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Dante.1763:

Envy.1679:

Theres the ostentatious entitlement we all know and love.

Way to ignore everything else she said

Ive already addressed why Raids should be the only means of getting legendary armor.

Dont need to go in circles.

You may have addressed it, but you have failed to convince. Is there something special about raids that means Legendary Armor has to be this method and no other equivalent difficulty method. What exactly is this special feature of raids?

“*equivalent difficulty* "

There is nothing with an equivalent difficulty. Whats so hard to understand?

So if there was something put in with equivalent difficulty to a raid, then you have no objections.

No I wouldnt, but they havnt announced or even hinted at anything as hard.

Then you agree with Lanfearshadowflame, that it’s ok for them to put in alternate ways to get legendary armor as long as its equivalent difficulty.

No I dont agree with her.

She may have changed her story later on, but this was the post that im arguing against.

“Let’s see….

Gear locked behind and only obtainable via raids….check
Raid lock out timers….check

Why hello WoW, nice to see you again….

Now, before someone blows up at me, let me clarify. I have no issue with raids having its own set of unique rewards, including a legendary gear set. I am; however, peeved that raiding is the only way to obtain a legendary gear set. Anet is essentially saying “Don’t like raiding? Too bad. Do it, or you’ll never finish your legendary collection.” This is very different than raids having a unique skin set locked to them."

No where in there did she suggest including additional content on the same difficulty level as Raids.

And later on she did, so maybe read all of the posts in a thread carefully before jumping in?

I wasnt arguing against the other posts though. Why would I need to read the other posts if I was arguing against the one I responded to in the first place?

She changed her argument to try to weasel out of the idea that she was suggesting other things should give legendary armor even if they werent as hard as Raids. Now shes claiming.. “I never actually said that” Well its obviously what It sounded like and you shouldve included the additional message of “unless theyre as hard as raids too” if that was actually a part of your original arguement, which she didnt.

You cant just expect people to assume that was part of your original arguement when you never even included it in the arguement. That looks like you changed the argument later on and you just dont want to admit your original arguement was just bad.

Yes, Envy, I didn’t state I wanted it hard in the original post. Of course, I never said I wanted it easier either. I simply stated that we should have additional acquisition options. You made an assumption that I desired it “easy mode” because I didn’t explicitly state otherwise, until later when I expounded upon my argument with other people. That’s not changing my story, not changing my stance. Simply expanding my reasoning behind my view.

Instead of jumping down my throat because you made (what turned out to be), an untrue assumption, you could have just asked for clarification on how I foresaw that working. Yes, I could easily see people being upset if additional sets were made available and were super easy to get. I’m not asking for that. I’ve never asked for that.

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

Lol I’m sure most are aware it has the same states as ascended. That’s not the point though.

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Besides they give rewards for tournaments already. You dont see them giving thousands of dollars away in prizes to plays doing anything other than winning tournaments.

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

That’s a red herring. Comparing one set to one set yes, but it is when you consider all sets to one set then its a different story. For players that play meta and never change their build then your right. For people that change their builds more often it quickly becomes better gear. And it sounds like they are listening and working towards giving us more challenges where meta will fail. So flexibility will become even more important then it is now.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

Lol I’m sure most are aware it has the same states as ascended. That’s not the point though.

What is it, then? Legendary armor having kittening awesome-looking skins and make you like a living big bang of particles? Or is it the facility of stat-swapping, despite swapping ascended stats requiring only an exotic insignia rather than a much more costly ascended insignia?

It’s obviously optional. Just like original legendary weapons, only the acquisition will require something more than raw material farming in Silverwastes/dungeons.

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

TheGrimm.5624:

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

That’s a red herring. Comparing one set to one set yes, but it is when you consider all sets to one set then its a different story. For players that play meta and never change their build then your right. For people that change their builds more often it quickly becomes better gear. And it sounds like they are listening and working towards giving us more challenges where meta will fail. So flexibility will become even more important then it is now.

And that’s perfectly fine, don’t you think? You want to embark into a content that requires you to swap stats, then you will want legendary armor for that. You want to endlessly farm gold and never changing your gear, then you won’t need legendary armor.

Valento.9852:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

Lol I’m sure most are aware it has the same states as ascended. That’s not the point though.

What is it, then? Legendary armor having kittening awesome-looking skins and make you like a living big bang of particles? Or is it the facility of stat-swapping, despite swapping ascended stats requiring only an exotic insignia rather than a much more costly ascended insignia?

It’s obviously optional. Just like original legendary weapons, only the acquisition will require something more than raw material farming in Silverwastes/dungeons.

You’d be surprised how much of a draw that stat swapping can be. Or those sparklies. Or just being that “Top tier.” Depends on the person. End-game carrot differs a bit per person.

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Besides they give rewards for tournaments already. You dont see them giving thousands of dollars away in prizes to plays doing anything other than winning tournaments.

I am not arguing that raids wont be challenging. Nor that they wont potentially be more challenging than any other pve content in the game. I am challenging an argument that something that does not yet exist and which we have not seen is currently more challenging than anything else in game including high end pvp.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

This raiding content could have potential if it’s coordination driven like Teq is, even on a smaller scale. That could be fun for a large boss fight. I really hope they haven’t abandoned dungeons in favor of this though. Having both with incentives would be better for the game and players. Small and large instances would be appropriate, especially since this game is free-to-play now. The incentive system is good, as long as these activities don’t become gear-gated. Then we really would be in fail-copyWOW territory. I really wish the devs would focus on making GW like GW rather than trying to steal ex-wow players from FFXIV or from any other game they’ve been playing. The days of massive WOW subscriptions are over.

Valento.9852:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Valento.9852:

Funny fact: legendary gear does not make you stronger than anyone with ascended (far faaaaar easier to craft).

Lol I’m sure most are aware it has the same states as ascended. That’s not the point though.

What is it, then? Legendary armor having kittening awesome-looking skins and make you like a living big bang of particles? Or is it the facility of stat-swapping, despite swapping ascended stats requiring only an exotic insignia rather than a much more costly ascended insignia?

It’s obviously optional. Just like original legendary weapons, only the acquisition will require something more than raw material farming in Silverwastes/dungeons.

So, your in WvW running a havoc squad and you are now rejoining your zerg since they are going to assault StoneMist and you can see its fully defended. or Your in the middle of a fractal and you need to change things up since you just hit a boss people are not geared for or you lost a member and are now 4 manning it. How do I get to the mystic forge and switch things up?

So your options are craft ‘x’ of ascended sets or have this one. For people that are going to target high end gear, this is the target. Optional, yes you can do some of this in other gear, but not as well.

lol, some of this discussion will vanish/change once they give us more details. Blogpost 2 , where are you?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there were too many players and that made it too easy” Since dungeons and raids cant simply be solved by throwing more players, this really isnt an “open world” type of issue.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

But they still overestimated the time taken. They knew about the guesting feature when they revamped Teq. Guesting to other servers for world bosses already happened, they should have expected guesting for Teq to be high as people wanted to be with the people organizing to figure out how to kill it.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

How well open world opposition stands up to the number of players that can attack it simultaneously is an integral part of its difficulty.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

You asked for an example where they miscalculated the difficulty and the time needed to learn the mechanics.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks. It took 12 hours. That’s the example you asked for and I provided it. Quit trying to reset the terms of what you asked for after the fact.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

You asked for an example where they miscalculated the difficulty and the time needed to learn the mechanics.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks. It took 12 hours. That’s the example you asked for and I provided it. Quit trying to reset the terms of what you asked for after the fact.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks

Even in the link you posted they said days or weeks. That could be as little as 2 days. the difference between 12 hours and 2 days is minor. You’re framing the answer as simply “weeks” trying to reinforce the argument that they were “So wrong” about the difficulty.

And they intended teq to be hard. Even to this day it still fails. Which is what they intended.

however even if most people on the teq map never done it before, it probably wont fail if the map is full. The “difficulty” goes away when theres that many players. They could make it unavoidably one shot the entire zerg, and it could still be done because theres just so many players

Thats not them misjudging the difficulty, thats them misjudging the effects of a zerg and its certainly NOT THE SAME thing as misjudging the difficulty of a raid or dungeon.

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

You asked for an example where they miscalculated the difficulty and the time needed to learn the mechanics.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks. It took 12 hours. That’s the example you asked for and I provided it. Quit trying to reset the terms of what you asked for after the fact.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks

Even in the link you posted they said days or weeks. That could be as little as 2 days. the difference between 12 hours and 2 days is minor. You’re framing the answer as simply “weeks” trying to reinforce the argument that they were “So wrong” about the difficulty.

And they intended teq to be hard. Even to this day it still fails. Which is what they intended.

however even if most people on the teq map never done it before, it probably wont fail if the map is full. The “difficulty” goes away when theres that many players. They make it unavoidably one shot the entire zerg, and it could still be done because theres just so many players

Thats not them misjudging the difficulty, thats them misjudging the effects of a zerg and its certainly NOT THE SAME thing as misjudging the difficulty of a raid or dungeon.

Of someone says days to weeks, then they are expecting more than 2 days. They are expecting it to be closer to the weeks side of the equation.

However, I showed what you requested with an example and a quote. Your attempting to change the request rules after the fact doesn’t impress me. It makes you look like a sore loser.

Cya. Not responding any more to someone who changes the rules after proof is shown.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

However, I showed what you requested with an example and a quote. Your attempting to change the request rules after the fact doesn’t impress me. It makes you look like a sore loser.

Meh, you can keep acting like thats what I wanted, but its not. Im done here. Honestly, arguing about it is pointless anyway.

Even if it was what I wanted, which its not. Thats one thing out of how much content? Good job bro.

TheGrimm.5624:

lol, some of this discussion will vanish/change once they give us more details. Blogpost 2 , where are you?

We know for sure we will get legendary armor piece precursors in the raids, not the complete piece. So it’s not like you must do raids to finish the legendary anyways, you NEED a piece of it that lies in the raids, just like the Gifts bought from dungeon tokens. Not too much different, except the hardest part will come from the hardest content. It should at the very least provide less RNG to grab the precursor, or a way to lessen it.

Valento.9852:

TheGrimm.5624:

lol, some of this discussion will vanish/change once they give us more details. Blogpost 2 , where are you?

We know for sure we will get legendary armor piece precursors in the raids, not the complete piece. So it’s not like you must do raids to finish the legendary anyways, you NEED a piece of it that lies in the raids, just like the Gifts bought from dungeon tokens. Not too much different, except the hardest part will come from the hardest content. It should at the very least provide less RNG to grab the precursor, or a way to lessen it.

They said you would get a unique reward from a raid once a week. That sounds like its some kind of guaranteed drop once a week for completing a raid. I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that that reward will be a precursor, meaning that theres something other than precursors that you need that can only be found in raids.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

Ashen.2907:

Envy.1679:

But currently there is NOTHING as challenging as raids to merit the same reward.

Citation?

Currently it takes less effort to complete 100% of all raids with known difficulty in the game than it does to defeat a single same level mob.

We dont know how difficult raids will be.

Will raids be more difficult than beating a guild team that practices 5v5 in wvw 20 hours or more per week with a pug (or its equivalent)?

Will raids be more difficult than winning a high end spvp tournament? Personally I have never seen a mob AI on par with a highly experienced, highly practiced, highly skilled player.

When they announced f2p there were devs standing in queensdale. Including the producer of raids. One of the devs said, “when we designed raids, we thought how hard can we make these without the being literally impossible”

Its safe to assume they are going to be harder than current content.

These the same devs who thought that the current game was challenging?

Do they think that the raid mob AI will be better than top tier players in a top tier guild team?

Comes straight from dev. Still wants to argue.

Ikr. The devs have never once been mistaken on how hard things are or how long it will take people to learn new mechanics. ^^

Give an example. A specific example of a dev statement and what actually happened.

Im almost positive you cant. Im not saying Anet is perfect. But Im pretty sure the current difficulties were more or less what they intended for them to be when they made them.

You can assert that anet actually has no clue what theyre doing, but if you cant back up the assertion, stop asserting it.

The revamped Teq.

From an interview with ANet:
Q: Tequatl update is nice but it destroys your party, home server due to overcrowded home servers and overflows
A: We are aware of it and actively discussing it. We were hoping originally it would take days/weeks for players to defeat Tequatl instead of 12 hrs.
http://dulfy.net/.../26/gw2-eurogamer-expo-livestream-notes/

They were expecting weeks and it took 12 hours. If that’s not an example of them miscalcating difficulty and the speed that people learn mechanics, then nothing is.

Thats due to the amount of players making it trivial, not the actual difficulty. As you can see the question asked actually referred to the amount of players, nothing to do with the actual difficulty.

You’ve taken the reply out of context.

Something like, “We intended this dungeon to be hard, but since the failure rate (amount of times its been opened by a full party and not finished within 3 hours) is over 80%, we are adjusting the difficulty to make it easier” Is what Im looking for.

Not, “there was too many players and that made it too easy”

Nope. They revamped Teq knowing exactly how many people did it each day and how many people the map can hold. (It’s their game after all, of course they know this stuff). In spite of all their information, they tried to make a revamped Teq that was raid level in difficulty and like raids would take weeks for people to win it. It took 12 hours. So that quote and example is exactly what you were asking me to show, and I did.

If it was raid level in difficulty they wouldnt allow more than 10 people to do it at once.

In a raid players are going to have to build certain ways and have certain weapons and do certain things and even use specific armors, including apparently toughness armor.

In teq you can complete it by auto attacking it and the mobs in zerker and using the guns.

This is obviously no where near the level of raids.

Claiming that it is is just wrong.

You asked for an example where they miscalculated the difficulty and the time needed to learn the mechanics.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks. It took 12 hours. That’s the example you asked for and I provided it. Quit trying to reset the terms of what you asked for after the fact.

They thought the revamped Teq would take weeks

Even in the link you posted they said days or weeks. That could be as little as 2 days. the difference between 12 hours and 2 days is minor. You’re framing the answer as simply “weeks” trying to reinforce the argument that they were “So wrong” about the difficulty.

And they intended teq to be hard. Even to this day it still fails. Which is what they intended.

however even if most people on the teq map never done it before, it probably wont fail if the map is full. The “difficulty” goes away when theres that many players. They make it unavoidably one shot the entire zerg, and it could still be done because theres just so many players

Thats not them misjudging the difficulty, thats them misjudging the effects of a zerg and its certainly NOT THE SAME thing as misjudging the difficulty of a raid or dungeon.

Of someone says days to weeks, then they are expecting more than 2 days. They are expecting it to be closer to the weeks side of the equation.

However, I showed what you requested with an example and a quote. Your attempting to change the request rules after the fact doesn’t impress me. It makes you look like a sore loser.

Cya. Not responding any more to someone who changes the rules after proof is shown.

Not to mention 12 hours isn’t even one day, let alone days. So they still overestimated how difficult the content was.

Envy.1679:

Valento.9852:

TheGrimm.5624:

lol, some of this discussion will vanish/change once they give us more details. Blogpost 2 , where are you?

We know for sure we will get legendary armor piece precursors in the raids, not the complete piece. So it’s not like you must do raids to finish the legendary anyways, you NEED a piece of it that lies in the raids, just like the Gifts bought from dungeon tokens. Not too much different, except the hardest part will come from the hardest content. It should at the very least provide less RNG to grab the precursor, or a way to lessen it.

They said you would get a unique reward from a raid once a week. That sounds like its some kind of guaranteed drop once a week for completing a raid. I hiiiiiiiighly doubt that that reward will be a precursor, meaning that theres something other than precursors that you need that can only be found in raids.

Now that precursor crafting is becoming a thing, maybe it won’t be that random? I’ll hold my 2 cents on this.

@Edit
To clarify “that random”: I think Mystic Clovers are a great example. They are reachable, and not complete random with a ridiculous chance. It should make you lose something, but at least you would get it eventually. It’s all a matter of percentages.