Guild Wars 2

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I hear this all day at work: “I don’t care about other people, I just want what I want”.

You kitten right we should have the options to do what we wish! If I want to fight and die repeatedly on a quest, I should kitten well be able to do that. AS EVERYONE SHOULD.

The ONLY people not giving a kitten about other people is Anet. As they are FORCING us to play THEIR way.

What the hell kind of a response is this!? Are we in backwards land here!?

How does dumbing down & gate locking all skills & functions help new players?
How does making everything mind numbing boring help new players?
How does limiting diversity and freedom help new players?
How does not designing a comprehensive tutorial to explain features hurt players?
When you coddle people, don’t be surprised when you get babies.

No, I mean like putting coveted skins in a gem store.
Or blues and greens from champs. Or Maudrey II.
Or precursor scav hunts.
Or many other numerous endeavours that lacks rewards.
But don’t worry, there is always trade post flipping. Because we all know how fun that is and is the reason we play games. Microsoft Wallstreet Simulator 2015

Yes poor writting. This game has the weakest writing of any game I played. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is what it is.

Chicago Jack.5647:

The ONLY people not giving a kitten about other people is Anet.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I don’t give a kitten how hard it was for other people!

You were saying?

Furyan.9578:

In the aftermath of the September patch I just want to post this.

http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

Does anyone remember that? I’m sure Arenanet doesn’t. Just past the one minute twenty mark seems very fitting.

The more I read peoples responses to the patch the more you realize that Arenanet is drifting from it’s original statement, but not because its established base is shifting back to last generation gaming but the only reasons I can find for this happening is because the release in China.

Arenanet, if you released this patch as a means of combining the two game version (effectively stating to your established base that the Chinese game community is more important than your original mission statement or the already three million or so Guild Wars 2 product buyers) then have the balls to come out and say it for what it is. It may only affect low level areas (now) but you’re already drifting from the premise a lot of people brought your game for.

And how long until this stretches beyond the starter areas? How long before your actions to impress the Chinese market screw over further the market that has supported you for two years?

Above is just my opinion but you have to start thinking: what are they going to screw over change next?

I remember it, as well as every bit of news article or update on Guild Wars 2, since the day they proudly announced the death of Guild Wars. Others have stated already that a title such as an MMO is a dynamic and changing product that caters to it’s audience. From loyal to new. Arenanet, from the very first game has had major struggles with this. Feedback was never their strong suit. Literally every activity that players created, they scolded and took away. It’s their title, but they’ve done nothing but punish players for their choice of activities and reduce content as a whole. Causing players to leave this game en mass.

Vayne.8563:

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

The only thing I can agree with in his/her post. I wouldn’t solely blame the changes from the Chinese launch. From post launch till now has all been direction routes from management staff of Arenanet. I wouldn’t blame NCsoft for their direction either. Arenanet’s need for Guild Wars to be liked by all, regardless of what the content turns into is a repeating theme since Eye of the North. If anything I would blame the constant envy Arenanet shows towards Blizzard’s World of Warcraft.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This will pretty much end like in SWG:

People who do not like the core of the game will still stop playing.
People who liked the game the way it was before will stop playing.
People who are fanbois will defend all changes until the game is dead.

Great quote, was there to see SWG burn. Sony Entertainment Online tried to compete with World of Warcraft, and dumbed down their game to appeal to a larger audience. Arenanet is literally in the same situation. Only they’re competing with a 10 year old title. Still failing miserably.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chicago Jack.5647:

The ONLY people not giving a kitten about other people is Anet.

Chicago Jack.5647:

I don’t give a kitten how hard it was for other people!

You were saying?

I don’t give a kitten about how hard/easy it was for other people, just like they shouldn’t give a kitten about how hard/easy it was for me! As the system they had, had no negative bearing on myself to others, and others to myself! Now, they are forcing EVERYONE to play at a set speed. Too slow for you? Too bad, chum. Too fast for you? Too bad, chum.That’s. Bullkitten.

How “hard” a game is, is an irrelevant point that makes no sense in the context and its a point that anet is sticking to – so are you!

BACKWARDS LAND EXISTS!

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This will pretty much end like in SWG:

I REALLY freaking hope not. It was bad enough living through all that crap with SWG the first time. To this day the acronyms CU, and NGE still give me PTSD! I came to Guild Wars 2 because I finally after all these years found a home I could enjoy as much as SWG.

The last few days have been most distressing indeed. Reading all 6 pages of that glassdoor site has not helped my mood much either. :-(

BillyTook.2140:

Great quote, was there to see SWG burn. Sony Entertainment Online tried to compete with World of Warcraft, and dumbed down their game to appeal to a larger audience. Arenanet is literally in the same situation. Only they’re competing with a 10 year old title. Still failing miserably.

Arenanet can’t make a better WoW than Blizzard.

Chicago Jack.5647:

How “hard” a game is, is an irrelevant point that makes no sense in the context and its a point that anet is sticking to – so are you!

BACKWARDS LAND EXISTS!

Heh. Please go on.

I don’t really have an opinion on the new player experience changes themselves. I just have opinions on how it’s been reacted to, the unlocks have been memetically overhyped, and as I said . . . it’s held as the death of puppies and all things good. And if you don’t agree with that, fanboy and white knight.

There’s no middle ground.

Can you see what’s wrong there?

Ashen.2907:

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago. This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

As the oldest video in a chain of videos. There are a lot of old videos there. I don’t think anyone expects four year old videos to be accurate and in this case it’s mostly no inaccurate.

However, everything after that tells a story too. There’s really no excuse to quote one line from a four year old video. I mean if you have the strategy guide, it’ll tell you all about dye seeds.

That’s life in MMOs.

I’m curious to know who took part in “over a year’s worth of research”
Was it Western or Chinese audience?

What was the defining factor that tells them players didn’t find it enjoyable in the previous iteration, and why did that lead to prolonging certain aspects of the game in it’s very early stages?

Would players play more with this current setup but eventually still stop playing, just at a later level? (The assumption here is that the gating becomes redundant if that same type of player is going to quit anyway, regardless)

If that demographic was the US/EU market, then it’s most likely just metrics speaking, if it’s the chinese market, then it’s most likely just a cheap way of “explaining” why they made the change even if it’s not really created for our demographic.

It’s all just about the metrics, I guess.

Also: Did this not come up AT ALL – like, not even a whiff – during the years of work on the game, internal and external testing, (I can only assume they did some general market testing) as well as a bunch of BWEs? Were they so oblivious to it back then?

Odyssey.2613:

How does dumbing down & gate locking all skills & functions help new players?
How does making everything mind numbing boring help new players?
How does limiting diversity and freedom help new players?
How does not designing a comprehensive tutorial to explain features hurt players?
When you coddle people, don’t be surprised when you get babies.

No, I mean like putting coveted skins in a gem store.
Or blues and greens from champs. Or Maudrey II.
Or precursor scav hunts.
Or many other numerous endeavours that lacks rewards.
But don’t worry, there is always trade post flipping. Because we all know how fun that is and is the reason we play games. Microsoft Wallstreet Simulator 2015

Yes poor writting. This game has the weakest writing of any game I played. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is what it is.

I started DOTA 2 , 6 months ago
I gave up on the 13 min , when i had to face the ‘’forced tutorial’’ on my face and combined that the map looked like an cluttered ’’Orr’’ .
You cant make a short tutorial explaing everything …. nor a long boring 1 …
There different kind of ppl in the world .

They have plans so OLD PLAYERS can get enjoyed with the alts .
You are always welcomed to make a thread and give your idea , how they should program the system to cater to yourself ….

About skinns … i dont know … they have bills and they have to pay ppl that loanned them money in order to build the game .

Blues and greens … RNGjesus :P

How can you make a precursor scav hunts … how will you it ?
A longgggggggg grind to kill 1 million bosses ? RNG (like the current) ? Kill 1 boss and get it ?

Tentaquil and other bosses have 1-5% chance to drop a mini :P
I want to hear some ideas here about endeavours:P

Edit: Lets be clear !!!
If they find a smart way to please both new players and the old about the locked trait and the abilities locked ….
I WILL BE THE FIRST ONE THAT WILL beg the company to offer both option to the new players ……
Because Theres a HUGE CHANCE that A HUGE aamount of new ppl will come here and whine that everything is the game is a cakewalk , and we will agrre that the company kittened up …..
If there are the 2 otpions , WE THE COMMUNITY will guide them to use the alternate option

nethykins.7986:

I’m curious to know who took part in “over a year’s worth of research”
Was it Western or Chinese audience?

What was the defining factor that tells them players didn’t find it enjoyable in the previous iteration, and why did that lead to prolonging certain aspects of the game in it’s very early stages?

Would players play more with this current setup but eventually still stop playing, just at a later level? (The assumption here is that the gating becomes redundant if that same type of player is going to quit anyway, regardless)

If that demographic was the US/EU market, then it’s most likely just metrics speaking, if it’s the chinese market, then it’s most likely just a cheap way of “explaining” why they made the change even if it’s not really created for our demographic.

Also: Did this not come up AT ALL – like, not even a whiff – during the years of work on the game, internal and external testing, (I can only assume they did some general market testing) as well as a bunch of BWEs? Were they so oblivious to it back then?

Most companies don’t talk about testing. Why would they? Why should they?

I’m pretty sure they were having problems keeping people after free weekends, which is why they haven’t had many. It’s a lot of work for relatively little return. Logic would say that those weekends aren’t people who are complaining about Arah being bugged. They were complaining about the leveling experience. They didn’t buy the game.

Anet probably tested it on US audiences, because if it’s been going on a year, the China game wasn’t far enough along to test it. My guess is the China stuff was implemented the way it was because of the testing too…and since the Chinese players who are already playing say they don’t like it, I sort of doubt it was made with China in mind.

Colin says more people played longer with this system than the others. He says they’ll watch it and if it’s not the case they’ll change it.

The only thing wrong with the video is people reading too much into it. It was 2 years old before GW2 was even released.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

“Raiders comprise the smallest, by far, group in our game. PvMP players are far larger and even they are small. in fact together the two groups wouldn’t comprise 10% of the total player base and never have (this is important. it’s not a new thing, it’s a long standing historical fact).

Forum posters comprise a slightly larger group than the combined group of PvMP and Raiders. However, Raiders and PvMP players make up the overwhelming majority of forum posters (More than half. Though raiders are the smaller group of the two (PvMP/Raiders)). So you have a tiny group, inside a small group that is grossly disproportionately represented on the forums."

I think we can identify few suchgroups here.

And how long have raiders (“hardcores”/“vets”/“pros”) been harping in every single game and every single forum how important they were and how numerous and how awesome and exalted (hell just look at Wildstar, and its 3 months old game)

So yeah, forum posters, lodmouths on forums dont really amount to much, if any

*And yeah, Turbine gave raiders kick in the kitten , there comes a time when certain groups become much more a burden than they are worth it (raiders were usuall very insulting (delusions of grandeur, self-importance, arrogance and know-it-all, and of course obligatory “if we leave game will crash and burn”) And all that in spite of Turbine pushing raiding hard, up to that point. And, just FYI, LOTRO is doing abit better since they did that.

The thoughts and ideals in the Manifesto are nice, but Life is Life, and Life sucks and forces us to change to fit new circumstances.

Both Anet and the players have to learn to deal with these changes.

Erukk.1408:

Both Anet and the players have to learn to deal with these changes.

Or they could become former players.

Can’t say much about it, some things just don’t work as intended, so they have to give up on some and change some to completely different…

Sokia.3710:

Erukk.1408:

Both Anet and the players have to learn to deal with these changes.

Or they could become former players.

They could do that too, and unless we suddenly get sub fees this game will be around to return to if they change their mind.

Vayne.8563:

Most companies don’t talk about testing. Why would they? Why should they?

I’m pretty sure they were having problems keeping people after free weekends, which is why they haven’t had many. It’s a lot of work for relatively little return. Logic would say that those weekends aren’t people who are complaining about Arah being bugged. They were complaining about the leveling experience. They didn’t buy the game.

Sure they don’t talk about them, but when big changes are made that feel like it’s a step backwards, people question the QA process/how they got to where they’re at etc. It’s a common thing with games more than anything. I know I’ve seen it in and out of the games industry+with friends in the industry.

On Free weekends: I’m not too sure it’s this reasoning because I’d say that’s down to it just being select free weekends. That may not be enough time for people to really get into it, especially if you’re a casual player. I can imagine their numbers having a stronger foundation on this aspect if they had a free trial up to level 15 or something.

Anet probably tested it on US audiences, because if it’s been going on a year, the China game wasn’t far enough along to test it. My guess is the China stuff was implemented the way it was because of the testing too…and since the Chinese players who are already playing say they don’t like it, I sort of doubt it was made with China in mind.

Makes sense. I just wonder whether it’s all just based off metrics alone, because it’s difficult to see the “You’re learning more and having more fun” aspect in it’s current iteration, from a personal standpoint. I mean yeah, it’s fantastic there’s a speedier leveling curve (I honestly have not felt this but everyone keeps saying it so I guess I should assume so), and that dodge training is good, but everything else just feels like you’re getting ready to unlock something instead of just enjoying the game.

Also, curious to know how they tested that this makes players more eager to come back when it hadn’t gone live.

Colin says more people played longer with this system than the others. He says they’ll watch it and if it’s not the case they’ll change it.

Fair enough…though, I’m super skeptical about this because…well…Anet says stuff, but that doesn’t always mean they have to follow through.

Sokia.3710:

Erukk.1408:

Both Anet and the players have to learn to deal with these changes.

Or they could become former players.

I remeber lots of names posting (now) a year ago they are leving GW2 forever and how they gloriously “uninstalled the game to make more space on HD”

If i return in a year im sure it will not be much different

nethykins.7986:

Vayne.8563:

Most companies don’t talk about testing. Why would they? Why should they?

I’m pretty sure they were having problems keeping people after free weekends, which is why they haven’t had many. It’s a lot of work for relatively little return. Logic would say that those weekends aren’t people who are complaining about Arah being bugged. They were complaining about the leveling experience. They didn’t buy the game.

Sure they don’t talk about them, but when big changes are made that feel like it’s a step backwards, people question the QA process/how they got to where they’re at etc. It’s a common thing with games more than anything. I know I’ve seen it in and out of the games industry+with friends in the industry.

On Free weekends: I’m not too sure it’s this reasoning because I’d say that’s down to it just being select free weekends. That may not be enough time for people to really get into it, especially if you’re a casual player. I can imagine their numbers having a stronger foundation on this aspect if they had a free trial up to level 15 or something.

Anet probably tested it on US audiences, because if it’s been going on a year, the China game wasn’t far enough along to test it. My guess is the China stuff was implemented the way it was because of the testing too…and since the Chinese players who are already playing say they don’t like it, I sort of doubt it was made with China in mind.

Makes sense. I just wonder whether it’s all just based off metrics alone, because it’s difficult to see the “You’re learning more and having more fun” aspect in it’s current iteration, from a personal standpoint. I mean yeah, it’s fantastic there’s a speedier leveling curve (I honestly have not felt this but everyone keeps saying it so I guess I should assume so), and that dodge training is good, but everything else just feels like you’re getting ready to unlock something instead of just enjoying the game.

Also, curious to know how they tested that this makes players more eager to come back when it hadn’t gone live.

Colin says more people played longer with this system than the others. He says they’ll watch it and if it’s not the case they’ll change it.

Fair enough…though, I’m super skeptical about this because…well…Anet says stuff, but that doesn’t always mean they have to follow through.

What exactly do you think makes them do (or do not) stuff.

That video almost makes me want to cry.

Oh, had they but made the game they said they were making!

Furyan.9578:

http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

Did most of those Devs get replaced, or just simply stop giving a fudge?
Because all I hear on that video is what made GW2 the best MMO, but what they say and do now is basically the opposite. If players over a week old are not considered as NPE’rs and their comments are not valued like ours, then what’s the point? It feels like they’ve sold out to some crappy idea and given up everything they fought hard to make unique.
With the exception to the TP and Wardrobe UI’s.

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2.

Oh, you can still do most of what you could do before at level 2? You mean, like, Skill Challenge? Personal Story? That kind of stuff? Is that the stuff you can still do at level 2? Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

Most of the stuff that people were complaining about. Now, there are a few things where the bar was moved like weapon swap and elite skill, but Anet tells us that the time it takes to get those things through actual play has remained the same. I don’t find, considering how fast the leveling goes, that I’m unlocking things any slower.

I know the people who only look at level numbers, instead of time spent getting to something, might think this is a terrible change. But you know, I like going through the first 15 levels quite fast and having most of what I had unlocked unlocked.

There are differences, but not as many as people make out, and adjustments have yet to be made.

Look everyone, a new system and it needs adjustment. Far different than saying this is the worst change ever and can’t work.

People who say that are going to lose because testing is more important right now than the opinion of people on the forums.

Someone is obviously pushing for his productivity bonus this weekend…

Opinions.. hmmm.. that little statement Vayne makes me chuckle.. your awfully full of them as well tbh, or are you saying ANET should only consider yours and other like you who prefer to keep polishing that shiny glow around you.

But yes, things do change.. constantly and I for one am all for a bit of change, when it’s truly warranted, but the low level gating on top of crafting gating at top end.. just all starts smelling foul to some players.
Personally I am not bothered either way although having just tried out the low level stuff, I find it rather boring and certainly wont be enticing me to go make new alts to push through it.. I wonder if the metrics will show just how many players no longer want to buy extra toon slots, run up more alts, spend more time in game,but instead sit on what they have got, reduce log in times to coincide with new LS, content patches then log out again.. rather than keep coming back to run new toon…. I think there is a lot more behind all this than what I might know but also that YOU think you know.

Vayne.8563:

nethykins.7986:

I’m curious to know who took part in “over a year’s worth of research”
Was it Western or Chinese audience?

What was the defining factor that tells them players didn’t find it enjoyable in the previous iteration, and why did that lead to prolonging certain aspects of the game in it’s very early stages?

Would players play more with this current setup but eventually still stop playing, just at a later level? (The assumption here is that the gating becomes redundant if that same type of player is going to quit anyway, regardless)

If that demographic was the US/EU market, then it’s most likely just metrics speaking, if it’s the chinese market, then it’s most likely just a cheap way of “explaining” why they made the change even if it’s not really created for our demographic.

Also: Did this not come up AT ALL – like, not even a whiff – during the years of work on the game, internal and external testing, (I can only assume they did some general market testing) as well as a bunch of BWEs? Were they so oblivious to it back then?

Most companies don’t talk about testing. Why would they? Why should they?

I’m pretty sure they were having problems keeping people after free weekends, which is why they haven’t had many. It’s a lot of work for relatively little return. Logic would say that those weekends aren’t people who are complaining about Arah being bugged. They were complaining about the leveling experience. They didn’t buy the game.

Anet probably tested it on US audiences, because if it’s been going on a year, the China game wasn’t far enough along to test it. My guess is the China stuff was implemented the way it was because of the testing too…and since the Chinese players who are already playing say they don’t like it, I sort of doubt it was made with China in mind.

Colin says more people played longer with this system than the others. He says they’ll watch it and if it’s not the case they’ll change it.

Of course the China game was far enough along.. you think it wasn’t planned right back when the game was also being planned, developed, “TESTED”.. cmon be serious now. If this wasn’t thought through at the time of development then its a pretty short sighted approach.
They don’t just pop a light bulb over their head on Monday and think “China” next month, get some tests done in US and see what’s what.
The game market/player market in China is different to US or UK etc.. of course they tested it over there and likely the results were poor.. but how much of that relates to low level game across their global market .. well I guess we wont know and that includes you I am afraid, but making low levels more grindy and gated now, combined with changes already added at higher levels, sure does seem to start to fit the Asian game market trend imo… perhaps its what is the preferred requirement so ANET decided to jump on board in an effort to make a few more $$$.. nothing wrong with that, but at least try to be honest with ya playerbase not place veils over the dialogue.

Archmage up, giant up

Sebulon.7683:

Archmage up, giant up

lol, what is the game after that? Archeage is not that game, you know, the be all and end all of everything. Not even close really.

“Takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it in a persistent world.”

That was a horrible lie, Mike. You guys didn’t bring back the incredible instanced story-telling. Sure, personal story is instanced, but GW1 didn’t have the invisible boundaries that threatened to kick you out of the instance. GW1 missions were their own instanced zoned. You didn’t bring back mixed professions (though I understand why you didn’t).

I could go on and list more ways this game is nothing like GW1, but I digress. For now, I will remember the chills I got when I first watched the manifesto video all those years ago.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago. This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

Sure, as long as players remember “we don’t make grindy games” came after things like the “Lucky” title track . . . the Gamer title track . . . Grandmaster Cartographer . . .

;)

Other than some of the titles, there was nothing else grindy at all.
I wouldn’t call Cartographer grindy at all either. You’re not doing anything over and again; once you explore the area you don’t need to come back. Don’t confuse “grindy” and “difficult” on that title. Maybe you just don’t like exploring and running at walls.

Furyan.9578:

In the aftermath of the September patch I just want to post this.

http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

…

Seeing that video reminds me about what I love about GW2 and still have – the art and visuals, the combat system, the music – but also about what is lost – the freedom for new characters to explore and play the game the way they want, at their own pace, to try different builds. Since I have not and will not create a new character under this restrictive system the negative aspects of the changes over the last 6 months do not effect me personally (at least not much). But I feel sad for the game as a whole.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Other than some of the titles, there was nothing else grindy at all.
I wouldn’t call Cartographer grindy at all either. You’re not doing anything over and again; once you explore the area you don’t need to come back. Don’t confuse “grindy” and “difficult” on that title. Maybe you just don’t like exploring and running at walls.

Not doing anything over and over again?

I can’t remember how many times I had to rescrape zones because I was missing a whole whooping .2% and I had no idea where it was. It was only after a week or two of overwhelming frustration that I finally broke down and cheated by getting CME.

Vayne.8563:

…
Now, there are a few things where the bar was moved like weapon swap and elite skill, but Anet tells us that the time it takes to get those things through actual play has remained the same. I don’t find, considering how fast the leveling goes, that I’m unlocking things any slower.
…

Then there is no benefit in putting them behind a leveling gate but only a detriment – some people rebel against new restrictions when formerly they were free.

Furyan.9578:

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

How new a player were you when you didn’t know how to WASD? Or understand what anything on screen meant, at all? Or didn’t know what any keys did? If you are trying to attract this demographic then these things need to be taught. They found that tutorial areas do nothing to help the situation or are not cost effective to implement. So they are giving that experience in the starter areas. Oh, and guess what? They have PROOF this is the best way to do this. If you do not accept their proof that’s on you. I’m pretty sure they are as surprised as we are at what they had to do to successfully onboard new players with retention in mind.

Zera Allimatti.2541:

“Takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it in a persistent world.”

That was a horrible lie, Mike. You guys didn’t bring back the incredible instanced story-telling. Sure, personal story is instanced, but GW1 didn’t have the invisible boundaries that threatened to kick you out of the instance. GW1 missions were their own instanced zoned. You didn’t bring back mixed professions (though I understand why you didn’t)

Guild Wars 2 was never like the first Guild Wars. Ever.

Roybe.5896:

Oh, and guess what? They have PROOF this is the best way to do this.

I highly doubt that. They have metrics and surveys and that’s it. That does not constitute “proof” that the NPE is the best way to initiate new players into the game’s mechanics.

Lazuli.2098:

Vayne.8563:

…
Now, there are a few things where the bar was moved like weapon swap and elite skill, but Anet tells us that the time it takes to get those things through actual play has remained the same. I don’t find, considering how fast the leveling goes, that I’m unlocking things any slower.
…

Then there is no benefit in putting them behind a leveling gate but only a detriment – some people rebel against new restrictions when formerly they were free.

I agree with you. I don’t think there’s a reason for it either. However, I don’t think it’s that big a deal considering how fast it unlocks.

Sokia.3710:

Zera Allimatti.2541:

“Takes everything you love about GW1 and puts it in a persistent world.”

That was a horrible lie, Mike. You guys didn’t bring back the incredible instanced story-telling. Sure, personal story is instanced, but GW1 didn’t have the invisible boundaries that threatened to kick you out of the instance. GW1 missions were their own instanced zoned. You didn’t bring back mixed professions (though I understand why you didn’t)

Guild Wars 2 was never like the first Guild Wars. Ever.

Agreed. It never will be. Why care about originality when it didn’t push you to number 1 status? Just copy what your competitors do and call it your own.

Roybe.5896:

Furyan.9578:

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

How new a player were you when you didn’t know how to WASD? Or understand what anything on screen meant, at all? Or didn’t know what any keys did? If you are trying to attract this demographic then these things need to be taught. They found that tutorial areas do nothing to help the situation or are not cost effective to implement. So they are giving that experience in the starter areas. Oh, and guess what? They have PROOF this is the best way to do this. If you do not accept their proof that’s on you. I’m pretty sure they are as surprised as we are at what they had to do to successfully onboard new players with retention in mind.

Fostering dependency and passive learning are about as far removed from educating as you can get.

Sorry, but what is offered is some marketing suits ‘idea’ of teaching.

Real teaching empowers a person with the knowledge and tools they need to independently set and attain their own goals. It will also test the concepts learned in some way to ensure that the knowledge has been understood and retained.

When I did the dodge tutorial…. walking straight through the spikes and failing to dodge at all allowed you to open the same chest and collect your prize as succeeding in dodging did. This begs the question ‘what exactly is being taught?’

Teaching somebody to wait for their tracker to tell them what to do next will only set them up to be dependent on the tracker and encourages a lazy and passive mindset.

Furyan.9578:

I have my kids who are now 11 and 13 (who were 9 and 11 at the time of release) who could pick up the game fine before the patch who are now wonder what’s wrong with the “new players” this patch is aimed towards. From my point of view if a 9 and an 11 year old could pick up the game and play fine with little to no gaming experience but something like this has to come out… somethings wrong somewhere.

This. Its like they are tweaking the game for toddlers.

Toxica.6749:

Here’s my problem with only listening to metrics….
With the latest LS we can go ahead and make ourselves the ascended Mawdrey piece.

Part of the requirement is that you get a piece from fractals. Metrics alone will show the player base attended fractals. What it wont show is any players that are angry about being forced to play one certain game mode to get a prize from another game mode. If you hate fractals and want the back piece ascended you just have to swallow the bitter pill.

This. Anet might say “look, the backpiece worked! More people are playing Fractals!” But I have known many players who did the grinding that they felt forced to do and when they were done were so sick of the game that they quit. So you are correct that metrics don’t show how players feel about what is being recorded.

Odyssey.2613:

When you coddle people, don’t be surprised when you get babies.

From what I’ve been reading, you don’t just get cry babies from coddling….

Furyan.9578:

Just wow. Anyone else remember…
http://youtu.be/FU1JUwPqzQY

Everyone but anet remembers the manifesto….

I personally gave up on hoping that the game will be as half as good as described in the manifesto.

R.I.P manifesto Guild Wars 2

We had much hope….
Anet has promised alot….
In the end we got trolled hard….

I am as frustrated by some of the dev decisions as much as anyone, but leave the “manifesto” video out of it. It is over four years old, and was dreamed up long before GW2 even entered its first closed beta.

The game has switched gears and adjusted mechanics constantly since then, and most of those changes have been very positive. Of course I am not defending crap like level-gating weapon skills, deleting bundle items, or otherwise mutilating starting zones and removing all the fun. I’m angry that there is seemingly no work being done on Super Adventure Box, new dungeons, or new skills/weapons/professions. But using some 4+ years old mission statement to “prove” how bad things are is obsessive. You sound like a crazy person, every time you link to the manifesto in so many threads that have nothing to do with it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chicago Jack.5647:

You have the option to go after achievements. You now do not have the option to explore the personal story until you reach certain levels – because it will be “too hard for you”. Screw you, Anet. I decide what is difficult or not. NOT. YOU.

It was too hard for some people. Doc Howler, anyone? I saw a couple topics about him, and about other parts too in early story instances.

Something being too difficult does not mean you should not allow people to do it until later. Personal Story is supposed to be one of the foundations of this game. So if it was too difficult in the beginning levels, make them easier, don’t take it away.

You people will never listen. I don’t know why Vayne keeps coming into these threads trying to tell you why you’re (clearly) wrong and upset about nothing, but I have to commend him for not getting absolutely furious.

Andred.1087:

You people will never listen. I don’t know why Vayne keeps coming into these threads trying to tell you why you’re (clearly) wrong and upset about nothing, but I have to commend him for not getting absolutely furious.

Hey guys, apparently everything is fine because Andred’s opinion is now somehow an objective fact. Your criticisms have all been rendered invalid due to the overwhelming evidence he has posted in defense of of his clearly unbiased argument.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

The Manifesto is currently presented by Anet on the GW2 main website. Today, not jsut four years ago.This makes it a current point of reference, not some outdated and no longer applicable years old irrelevant data.

As long as Anet chooses to offer it up as current and official it is perfectly reasonable for players to reference it.

As the oldest video in a chain of videos. There are a lot of old videos there. I don’t think anyone expects four year old videos to be accurate and in this case it’s mostly no inaccurate.

However, everything after that tells a story too. There’s really no excuse to quote one line from a four year old video. I mean if you have the strategy guide, it’ll tell you all about dye seeds.

That’s life in MMOs.

Wow!

Did he even read what he quoted?

I’ve seen him do that a lot when he can’t answer.

Andred.1087:

You people will never listen. I don’t know why Vayne keeps coming into these threads trying to tell you why you’re (clearly) wrong and upset about nothing, but I have to commend him for not getting absolutely furious.

I know. I can’t understand why people want to think for themselves.

NewTrain.7549:

Andred.1087:

You people will never listen. I don’t know why Vayne keeps coming into these threads trying to tell you why you’re (clearly) wrong and upset about nothing, but I have to commend him for not getting absolutely furious.

Hey guys, apparently everything is fine because Andred’s opinion is now somehow an objective fact. Your criticisms have all been rendered invalid due to the overwhelming evidence he has posted in defense of of his clearly unbiased argument.

Hey everyone, never mind what I said; NewTrain’s expert rebuttal completely disqualified all the claims I made. And why ever was I to think that people were over-reacting and being selfishly upset about literally nothing? How stupid of me.

Andred.1087:

NewTrain.7549:

Andred.1087:

You people will never listen. I don’t know why Vayne keeps coming into these threads trying to tell you why you’re (clearly) wrong and upset about nothing, but I have to commend him for not getting absolutely furious.

Hey guys, apparently everything is fine because Andred’s opinion is now somehow an objective fact. Your criticisms have all been rendered invalid due to the overwhelming evidence he has posted in defense of of his clearly unbiased argument.

Hey everyone, never mind what I said; NewTrain’s expert rebuttal completely disqualified all the claims I made. And why ever was I to think that people were over-reacting and being selfishly upset about literally nothing? How stupid of me.

Funny thing is I was being sarcastic. You just stated the truth (even if you were attempting sarcasm).