Guild Wars 2

Key farming

Its been around for a while but as i just came back from a break i was made aware of what key farming actually is. For those who don’t know- its speedrunning up to a certain quest in the human questline in order to obtain the award (which is a key).

Those with practice can average about 1 key every 20 mins or 3 keys per hour….

I feel like this should be reworked- i don’t know how exactly, but i think there is something to be said about the overall health of the game when one of the single most rewarding things to do is a tedious speedrun on a new character every 20 mins.

The big picture is most people can obviously make about $10 an hour at a job and double the amount of this method as you can get 3 per hour using the in-game method and about 6 keys with $10.

But i still dont like the principle of it. Guild Wars 2 is a massive game with tons of different things to do- why can’t you just remove this award or make it once per account? I think the drop rates in the world could use a little buff- maybe increase the frequency so people get more than 1-2 key a year off doing normal game-play stuff (i.e. getting keys from mob drops)?

I don’t really know how this effects the econonomy- i guess it just floods the market with all sorts of convenience stuff- and the people farming these keys are likely making a LOT more gold than someone who just enjoys the game normally.

I wouldn’t call it the most rewarding as I can farm gold at a much quicker rate than I can get keys. Unless you get lucky with one of the contracts dropping, it’s really not worth it.

You have to get to level 10 first now. If you have tomes or writs then it’s fast but if you don’t then you have to spend several gold to to craft to gain enough exp or you have to level the old fashioned way, which takes time.

By the way, most stuff you get, you can’t sale, it’s account bound.

You can technically still do it at minimal cost as some recipes, such as vegetable stock, still produce a profit so long as you don’t flood the market with them all at once.

It affects the economy by lowering the price of the black lion skins. If you double the rate key farmers get their black lion ticket scraps I’d be surprised if the rarer skins (those that can still be bought for 5 tickets) didn’t double in price.

Overall, it has no real impact on the game since it does not really give useful benefits besides the ability to obtain BL skins and the occasional unidentified dye pack or permanent account feature. After earning the key, the key farmer’s income is RNG based because they have to convert those keys into weapon skins where there are more reliable- slightly slower- ways to make gold.

Since a few months after release I have never gotten a single key drop from a mob. About 1/5 exploration awards is a key where the 4 others are transmutation charges, but I’ve not seen a key actually drop.

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

I wouldn’t call it the most rewarding thing by far.

If you compare the gem prices with gold prices… let’s see…

An avarage run for a key 20-25 mins (yes you can do super speed runs for 18 mins, but that wont happen every time), but it’s more likely a bit more with character creatin and deleting. 25 keys is 2100 gems. So that’s roughly a bit more than 10 hours “playtime”.

2100 gems currently is around 260 gold. That’s a 26 gold per hour “income”. And…

Huh… it may be the most profitable after all

Aye, the accessibility of key farming is questionable at best already, especially since the NPE, and it’s really the only thing keeping the Black Lion Weapon Skins in-check cost wise. If it’s ever to be changed, it certainly shouldn’t be to make it even more limited!

As for BL Key Drops. I’ve had 3 or 4 in total via mob drops, and I’ve been playing since pre-release (and the Betas, but those aren’t connected anyway, so). Somebody told me once that they apparently use the same drop charts as Precursors, with a similar drop chance, which I can definitly believe, considering while I’ve had those 3 or 4 key drops I’ve never had a precursor drop (and only eventually got one in the Mystic Forge after throwing thousands of gold worth of staffs in there).

Point is, the Key Drop chance is so low it would be totally disastrous to the economy and accessibility of Black Lion skins if they removed the ability to farm them via Personal Story speedruns.

Bubi.7942:

Huh… it may be the most profitable after all

It’s not profitable, since the keys are account bound and you can’t sell them for money, you can only sell some of their contents, which are far less valuable in comparison (and you can’t rely on that 0.00001% chance of getting a “permanent [something] contract” for mega-bucks on the TP, those really shouldn’t be factored in).

It’s simply the most efficient in-game (so that’s discounting using real money) way to get the Keys for yourself, that’s all.

Invoker.5462:

I feel like this should be reworked- i don’t know how exactly, but i think there is something to be said about the overall health of the game when one of the single most rewarding things to do is a tedious speedrun on a new character every 20 mins.

….

But i still dont like the principle of it. Guild Wars 2 is a massive game with tons of different things to do- why can’t you just remove this award or make it once per account? I think the drop rates in the world could use a little buff- maybe increase the frequency so people get more than 1-2 key a year off doing normal game-play stuff (i.e. getting keys from mob drops)?

I’m not exactly sure what principle the OP is invoking here. The game is massive and folks do all sorts of things to farm. This isn’t the single best farm out there and most folks find it stupefyingly boring after a few times.

At best, key farmers earn a steady income, but it’s not considerable better than farms in Silverwastes, Frostgorge, or a variety of T6 mat farms or even chef mat runs (e.g. vanilla, chili, lemongrass).

I think it’s great that the game offers this much variety. Unless the OP can point to specific ways that the community is hurt by keyfarming, I’m inclined to support the status quo.

Most of the stuff inside the chests is useless and if you consider how many runs you need for a ticket the reward pretty low. I usually get bored before having the scraps for a ticket.

It’s been commented on before where they said they were okay with it, because all it is, is doing a speedrun of the game.

Also, without it, BLTC chest skin prices would be higher.

On principle, I don’t like the OP’s tone and request. As for repetitively speed running content, I waiting to hear the complaints on dungeons runs.

Keyfarming has already been nerfed. You can’t do a complete key run in 20 minutes anymore, unless you have tomes of knowledge, which you will run out of eventually.

Instead of patching or nerfing lucrative farms, Anet should actually buff other rewards so these farms are no longer desirable.

It’s ridiculous that if I want to obtain a bit of wealth in this game I have to resort to farming or playing the TP. With farming I can make 10g every 30 minutes. Even the best of the best of the best dungeon speedrunners can’t make that amount of gold in such a short amount of time.

Obviously the fastest way to make gold in GW2 is to take out the good ol’ credit card and that’s probably never going to change, but just playing GW2 normally should seriously be a lot more rewarding than it is now.

Anet, if you want to discourage people to do farms like these, you should encourage people to play the game normally by making the rewards for the “normal” activities more rewarding! Don’t nerf these farms until every rewards in the game sucks equally bad, buff the other rewards until every reward is at least somewhat decent/worthwhile!

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

Either way, having to exploit the system because its the most reliable way to get keys isn’t healthy gameplay at all. The game should reward you for regular gameplay, not for leveling a character to 10, deleting, and repeating.

This takes up a character slot(which i actually would like to play most classes at some point), and forces me to do something beyond repetition,

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

Either way, having to exploit the system because its the most reliable way to get keys isn’t healthy gameplay at all. The game should reward you for regular gameplay, not for leveling a character to 10, deleting, and repeating.

This takes up a character slot(which i actually would like to play most classes at some point), and forces me to do something beyond repetition,

Do something beyond recognition? Like run dungeons repeatedly? Is pouring money into the game by running dungeons and causing inflation also healthy? ^^

If ANet felt like key running wasn’t healthy gameplay, they could stop it in one second by removing the key from the level 10 story yet in almost 3 years, they haven’t. So maybe it’s not as unhealthy as you think, since ANet doesn’t agree with you.

I wouldn’t run keys if black lion skins weren’t locked inside an RNG box where the cost of getting a skin by direct purchase is both unreasonably high and variable. I would much prefer to buy them from the gem store for a direct, reasonable price. Since I refuse to buy keys then this is my, and others, answer to the way to the way ANet sells them.

If you then say, buy them from the trading post, I then point out to you that at this point they cost about 60 to 90 gold to buy and that’s with people like me running keys and keeping the prices low. If we weren’t doing this the price for these skins in the trading post would be higher. It’s people like me who bring the prices down to the levels they are, a mere 60 to 90 gold for one weapon. Every time you buy a black lion weapon skin from the trading post, you should thank the key runners for keeping the prices so low and not the price they would be without us.

Key farming is not the most reliable way to get keys, nor the fastest. A credit card is. What key farming does is provide a second alternative to spending real money (the first alernative is gold conversion).

Im not sure that I agree that having multiple ways of getting game items is a bad thing.

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

Either way, having to exploit the system because its the most reliable way to get keys isn’t healthy gameplay at all. The game should reward you for regular gameplay, not for leveling a character to 10, deleting, and repeating.

This takes up a character slot(which i actually would like to play most classes at some point), and forces me to do something beyond repetition,

Do something beyond recognition? Like run dungeons repeatedly? Is pouring money into the game by running dungeons and causing inflation also healthy? ^^

If ANet felt like key running wasn’t healthy gameplay, they could stop it in one second by removing the key from the level 10 story yet in almost 3 years, they haven’t. So maybe it’s not as unhealthy as you think, since ANet doesn’t agree with you.

I wouldn’t run keys if black lion skins weren’t locked inside an RNG box where the cost of getting a skin by direct purchase is both unreasonably high and variable. I would much prefer to buy them from the gem store for a direct, reasonable price. Since I refuse to buy keys then this is my, and others, answer to the way to the way they sell them.

If you then say, buy them from the trading post, I then point out to you that at this point they cost about 60 to 90 gold to buy and that’s with people like me running keys and keeping the prices low. If we weren’t doing this the price for these skins in the trading post would be higher. It’s people like me who bring the prices down to the levels they are, a mere 60 to 90 gold for one weapon. Every time you buy a black lion weapon skin from the trading post, you should thank the key runners for keeping the prices so low and not the price they would be without us.

Depends what you mean by low. What else do you get from the BL chests of value? what about the rare dyes that can be sold? Account bound items that still have a gem/gold value/ other items like contracts

How often do the tickets come on average? we would need statistics from anet to prove that those prices are “low” on average. And if the markets low, its because its being flooded by people who farm it in this way, which may be making anet thinking its ok, as opposed to there being a lack of black lion skins, which might suggest the system isn’t working.

So you guy are applying an around the back bandaid, instead of fixing the real problem, which would be changing the way we get keys in game to revolve around regular playing with your characters, not having to remake a character over and over.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

Either way, having to exploit the system because its the most reliable way to get keys isn’t healthy gameplay at all. The game should reward you for regular gameplay, not for leveling a character to 10, deleting, and repeating.

This takes up a character slot(which i actually would like to play most classes at some point), and forces me to do something beyond repetition,

Do something beyond recognition? Like run dungeons repeatedly? Is pouring money into the game by running dungeons and causing inflation also healthy? ^^

If ANet felt like key running wasn’t healthy gameplay, they could stop it in one second by removing the key from the level 10 story yet in almost 3 years, they haven’t. So maybe it’s not as unhealthy as you think, since ANet doesn’t agree with you.

I wouldn’t run keys if black lion skins weren’t locked inside an RNG box where the cost of getting a skin by direct purchase is both unreasonably high and variable. I would much prefer to buy them from the gem store for a direct, reasonable price. Since I refuse to buy keys then this is my, and others, answer to the way to the way they sell them.

If you then say, buy them from the trading post, I then point out to you that at this point they cost about 60 to 90 gold to buy and that’s with people like me running keys and keeping the prices low. If we weren’t doing this the price for these skins in the trading post would be higher. It’s people like me who bring the prices down to the levels they are, a mere 60 to 90 gold for one weapon. Every time you buy a black lion weapon skin from the trading post, you should thank the key runners for keeping the prices so low and not the price they would be without us.

Depends what you mean by low. Some of the 7ticket bl are near 1000g. that’s practically a legendary.

How often do the tickets come on average? we would need statistics from anet to prove that those prices are “low” on average. And if the markets low, its because its being flooded by people who farm it in this way, which may be making anet thinking its ok, as opposed to there being a lack of black lion skins, which might suggest the system isn’t working.

So you guy are applying an around the back bandaid, instead of fixing the real problem, which would be changing the way we get keys in game to revolve around regular playing with your characters, not having to remake a character over and over.

You can’t apply the prices of the non one ticket skins. The one ticket skins are the ones brought down by key runners. The reason why the 7 ticket skins are so high is because people, including key runners, don’t convert ticket to those skins frequently enough to bring the prices down. At 1000 gold a skin, you’re getting a glimpse at what prices would be like at start for weapons, if there weren’t key runners.

As to applying a band aid to an ANet caused problem, yes. But that’s up to ANet to fix if they think it needs one.

Key farming is the equivalent of working a job that pays around $1.50/hour.

It is not a very rewarding process for the amount of time it takes to achieve. You’d be better off spending that time working at McDonald’s and turning your paycheck into gems, then converting those gems into gold, then buying the valuable items you wanted from the Black Lion Chest.

If people want to key farm, leave them alone. They aren’t causing any harm to you or anyone else, they’re really just wasting their own time.

I am not paid on an hourly basis but if I count it as hourly payment I can afford about 50 keys every hour. That’s why I usually buy stuff with money. There it is: either you work or you don’t work and can waste time on farming.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

I do the occasional key farm. If I have sufficient tomes and writs (which take days to get) then I can level to 10, usually I can use this method only once every few days. Otherwise I usually regular level to level 7 (typically takes me about 35 minutes) then I use crafting to get to level 10. After that I can run the key farm.

My typical reward is normally an account bound booster, and 2 account bound gem store items such as a bank access or a trading post access. Rarely I might get a mini worth a gold or an unidentified dye or a ticket scrap (I need 10 of these).

Compare that to a dungeon runner who runs one dungeon path and after 15 minutes he gets a gold plus drops plus tokens he can trade in for account bound exotics when he gets enough.

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.

this is quite saddening.

As a new player i have already found these to be useless. I once looked at them like they might be something cool, but even then playing casually i have amde almost 175g in a week through drops and dungeon runs., while gearing up.

Might as well enjoy the gam and just buy a skin that hating myself and trying to farm for one

Actually I find it a soothing and relaxing thing to do after doing a hectic Silverwastes or as a change of pace from what I usually do.

Different people like different things you know. For example there is a thread right now on fishing, that sounds to me like the most boring thing to do. But those people enjoy it and want it.

You shouldn’t assume that people are doing stuff they hate.

Either way, having to exploit the system because its the most reliable way to get keys isn’t healthy gameplay at all. The game should reward you for regular gameplay, not for leveling a character to 10, deleting, and repeating.

This takes up a character slot(which i actually would like to play most classes at some point), and forces me to do something beyond repetition,

It’s not exploiting the system. If it was, key farmers would be banned. ANet bans those who exploit their game.

ANet also has said in threads that keys are a good enough reward for going through the personal story up to the mission that you get a key. And that was before the NPE. When players could do the story below the recommended level. Key farmers would actually party up and run through the story. So they actually already nerfed the key farm by making people have to get to level 10 before they can reach the mission that gets them a key.

That the time put in is worth a key. If they change their mind on that, they will do something about it.

Invoker.5462:

I don’t really know how this effects the econonomy- i guess it just floods the market with all sorts of convenience stuff- and the people farming these keys are likely making a LOT more gold than someone who just enjoys the game normally.

Thats your problem .. complaining about something you don’t even understand.

In the end all you want for us is that we should pay more gold to get black lion skins
because that is the only thing that a keyfarm nerf would bring.

Also you can’t calculate the profit in a way as if the keyfarmer were buying all those
keys for gold, since they mostly never would do that because they know the keys
are not worth it.

And i’m personally very happy that we still have keyfarmers so i can buy my skins
in the TP for 60-70g instead of having to buy keys for maybe 200+ g

mtpelion.4562:

Key farming is the equivalent of working a job that pays around $1.50/hour.

It is not a very rewarding process for the amount of time it takes to achieve. You’d be better off spending that time working at McDonald’s and turning your paycheck into gems, then converting those gems into gold, then buying the valuable items you wanted from the Black Lion Chest.

If people want to key farm, leave them alone. They aren’t causing any harm to you or anyone else, they’re really just wasting their own time.

The issue is not key farmers, its that outside key farming you don’t see keys as often,. Outside paying for them, key farming is the only reliable method, and the drop rates for normal game play is horrendous.

the only 3 keys i have received is from quest rewards through storyline. If this is their way of making money, thats fine, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not a problem with it

edgarallanpwn.8739:

mtpelion.4562:

Key farming is the equivalent of working a job that pays around $1.50/hour.

It is not a very rewarding process for the amount of time it takes to achieve. You’d be better off spending that time working at McDonald’s and turning your paycheck into gems, then converting those gems into gold, then buying the valuable items you wanted from the Black Lion Chest.

If people want to key farm, leave them alone. They aren’t causing any harm to you or anyone else, they’re really just wasting their own time.

The issue is not key farmers, its that outside key farming you don’t see keys as often,. Outside paying for them, key farming is the only reliable method, and the drop rates for normal game play is horrendous.

the only 3 keys i have received is from quest rewards through storyline. If this is their way of making money, thats fine, but that doesn’t mean that there’s not a problem with it

Keys are NOT meant to rain down on players. They are meant to be rare to drive people to buy them off of the gem store.

ANet knows that most players will not key farm to such a huge degree that it will make the minis, tickets, ticket scraps, and other rarer items that come out of chests flood the inventories of players. Also, most items that come out of the chest are account bound on acquire, meaning the key farm doesn’t affect the economy to a huge amount. BLTC skins are still really expensive. The key farm keeps them from being absurdly expensive. At least some of them.

I expect that the only reason we see keys drop at all is to prime the pump. Someone who gets something they like from that one random drop might be inclined to actually buy keys. The key rewards probably serve a similar purpose.

Ashen.2907:

I expect that the only reason we see keys drop at all is to prime the pump. Someone who gets something they like from that one random drop might be inclined to actually buy keys. The key rewards probably serve a similar purpose.

I would much rather pay 20-30$ for a skin a like etc etc, at reasonable prices, and be guaranteed to get that.

Key farming is a horrible method(at least in my eyes) and because of the fact, people have to actually farm it, the decent skins actually are so high in price that it hits upwards of 100$+(if you’re not buying a 1ticket skin).

How many people will pay that kind of cash for a skin? Not every many. that’s why people are grinding in game gold for the stuff they want.

If anet made it equally more purchasable, they would make more sales too, and could focus on other parts of the game.

Currently its 30$ per like what.. 230-250g? or something like that. Id have to check

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Keyfarming has already been nerfed. You can’t do a complete key run in 20 minutes anymore, unless you have tomes of knowledge, which you will run out of eventually.

Instead of patching or nerfing lucrative farms, Anet should actually buff other rewards so these farms are no longer desirable.

It’s ridiculous that if I want to obtain a bit of wealth in this game I have to resort to farming or playing the TP. With farming I can make 10g every 30 minutes. Even the best of the best of the best dungeon speedrunners can’t make that amount of gold in such a short amount of time.

Obviously the fastest way to make gold in GW2 is to take out the good ol’ credit card and that’s probably never going to change, but just playing GW2 normally should seriously be a lot more rewarding than it is now.

Anet, if you want to discourage people to do farms like these, you should encourage people to play the game normally by making the rewards for the “normal” activities more rewarding! Don’t nerf these farms until every rewards in the game sucks equally bad, buff the other rewards until every reward is at least somewhat decent/worthwhile!

Yes you can. If you do the research beforehand and pick certain recipes, you can level to 10 through cooking at no cost after you sell what you make. You may even make a small profit. Granted, this cannot be done in mass otherwise the prices fall for what you try to sell. We also have the Lunar Festival food which may (I haven’t verified) increase the XP you get from crafting reducing the number of levels that you need to craft. The average is about 200 crafting levels without considering other boosts.

You can do the runs much quicker now as you’re a much higher level than before. I’ve averaged around 21 min from when I start creating the character until I’m done offloading everything into the bank. I’ve see people do it much faster than me since the NPE.

Ok, my calculations on what weapon skins are worth if they are bought with real world money then sold on the trading post.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate
The current scrap drop rate is 0.289% which means on average it takes 34.6 keys to get 10 scraps. (We will say 35, I’m waving off the more rare chance to get a full ticket).

25 keys sell for $26.35€/2100 gems so 35 keys is 36.89$ or 2940 gems

Currently 100 gems sell for 8.73 gold which means 2940 gems is worth 256.66 gold.

Now a rational consumer would check the value of the gems he had to use to get one weapon skin and conclude that the starting price for a weapon right now should be 256.66 gold, which is what he would have gotten if he sold the gems he bought directly instead of converting them to keys first.

Starting prices for one ticket weapons are 60 to 90 gold, which means either that there are a lot of people not checking the value of the gems they converted to keys (a distinct possibility) or key farmers are pulling down prices.

All the speculation, complaints and math in the world will not change the fact that Anet Devs have directly stated they don’t seen ANY issues with key farming (even tho they nerfed it pretty hard with NPE).

Answer : Leave it alone.

I tried keyfarming a bit before the horribad NPE patch. It’s arguably one of the most boring things to do for me. If others enjoy/feel compelled enough to go through that over and over, then let them. They already nerfed it by making it require Lv10. Unless you have a solid suggestion for making Black Lion Keys easier to get otherwise, I see no reason to attempt changing this.

And, as ArenaNet themselves have stated, they don’t consider it an exploit, or they’d have just removed it by now.

Astral Projections.7320:

Ok, my calculations on what weapon skins are worth if they are bought with real world money then sold on the trading post.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate
The current scrap drop rate is 0.289% which means on average it takes 34.6 keys to get 10 scraps. (We will say 35, I’m waving off the more rare chance to get a full ticket).

25 keys sell for $26.35€/2100 gems so 35 keys is 36.89$ or 2940 gems

Currently 100 gems sell for 8.73 gold which means 2940 gems is worth 256.66 gold.

Now a rational consumer would check the value of the gems he had to use to get one weapon skin and conclude that the starting price for a weapon right now should be 256.66 gold, which is what he would have gotten if he sold the gems he bought directly instead of converting them to keys first.

Starting prices for one ticket weapons are 60 to 90 gold, which means either that there are a lot of people not checking the value of the gems they converted to keys (a distinct possibility) or key farmers are pulling down prices.

You also forgot to factor in the gem value of all the account bound stuff, chance of contracts, dyes and their worths, etc.

The prices of keys is not directly related to black lion tickets so that price is false too. You would need to to take the % of black lion ticket drops, factor that into how many keys on average it would take to get that many tickets, then choose the cost based on that percentage, because that’s its net worth.

It doesn’t matter if that’s the only way to get them, and that statement would only be true if the only item that came out of them would be ticket scraps, or whole tickets.

You missed the most important factor there.

Redo the math again

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

Ok, my calculations on what weapon skins are worth if they are bought with real world money then sold on the trading post.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate
The current scrap drop rate is 0.289% which means on average it takes 34.6 keys to get 10 scraps. (We will say 35, I’m waving off the more rare chance to get a full ticket).

25 keys sell for $26.35€/2100 gems so 35 keys is 36.89$ or 2940 gems

Currently 100 gems sell for 8.73 gold which means 2940 gems is worth 256.66 gold.

Now a rational consumer would check the value of the gems he had to use to get one weapon skin and conclude that the starting price for a weapon right now should be 256.66 gold, which is what he would have gotten if he sold the gems he bought directly instead of converting them to keys first.

Starting prices for one ticket weapons are 60 to 90 gold, which means either that there are a lot of people not checking the value of the gems they converted to keys (a distinct possibility) or key farmers are pulling down prices.

You also forgot to factor in the gem value of all the account bound stuff, chance of contracts, dyes and their worths, etc.

The prices of keys is not directly related to black lion tickets so that price is false too. You would need to to take the % of black lion ticket drops, factor that into how many keys on average it would take to get that many tickets, then choose the cost based on that percentage, because that’s its net worth.

It doesn’t matter if that’s the only way to get them, and that statement would only be true if the only item that came out of them would be ticket scraps, or whole tickets.

You missed the most important factor there.

Redo the math again

Since the regular argument I’ve seen is that the “what you get from the chests is worthless” that means that people assign zero value to these items and don’t calculate their worth when deciding how much a weapon skin should sell for.

As to percent of black lion ticket drops, I used the listed percent on that site, 0.289% chance of getting a scrap from one key use.

Astral Projections.7320:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Astral Projections.7320:

Ok, my calculations on what weapon skins are worth if they are bought with real world money then sold on the trading post.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate
The current scrap drop rate is 0.289% which means on average it takes 34.6 keys to get 10 scraps. (We will say 35, I’m waving off the more rare chance to get a full ticket).

25 keys sell for $26.35€/2100 gems so 35 keys is 36.89$ or 2940 gems

Currently 100 gems sell for 8.73 gold which means 2940 gems is worth 256.66 gold.

Now a rational consumer would check the value of the gems he had to use to get one weapon skin and conclude that the starting price for a weapon right now should be 256.66 gold, which is what he would have gotten if he sold the gems he bought directly instead of converting them to keys first.

Starting prices for one ticket weapons are 60 to 90 gold, which means either that there are a lot of people not checking the value of the gems they converted to keys (a distinct possibility) or key farmers are pulling down prices.

You also forgot to factor in the gem value of all the account bound stuff, chance of contracts, dyes and their worths, etc.

The prices of keys is not directly related to black lion tickets so that price is false too. You would need to to take the % of black lion ticket drops, factor that into how many keys on average it would take to get that many tickets, then choose the cost based on that percentage, because that’s its net worth.

It doesn’t matter if that’s the only way to get them, and that statement would only be true if the only item that came out of them would be ticket scraps, or whole tickets.

You missed the most important factor there.

Redo the math again

Since the regular argument I’ve seen is that the “what you get from the chests is worthless” that means that people assign zero value to these items and don’t calculate their worth when deciding how much a weapon skin should sell for.

As to percent of black lion ticket drops, I used the listed percent on that site, 0.289% chance of getting a scrap from one key use.

You did the math correctly. You should assign a 0 value to everything other than the things you can actually sell. The fact that you got a bunch of gem store items that you cannot trade and probably never would have bought in the first place is irrelevant to the calculation.

The key farm has already been hit by a nerf hammer.

@edgarallanpwn.8739:
“You also forgot to factor in the gem value of all the account bound stuff, chance of contracts, dyes and their worths, etc.”

Contacts? Contracts??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

(Wipes tears of mirth from eyes) You mean those drop that are so rare that you can do 1000 key runs and not see one? That’s like winning the lottery. I’m not going to calculate that in.

Account bound items? I assign zero value to the price of a weapon skin that I’m planning to sell.

So, what else do I get. Dyes? Occasionally I’ll get one. 30 silver. Minis? Same. One gold. Ummm, anything else. Not normally.

Ok, in one set of 35 runs, maybe (maybe) I’ll get one mini and 3 unidentified dyes (I’m making a generous guess here). We’ll say 2 gold.

So, subtract 2 gold from my calculated price of 256.66 gold to get 254.66 gold.

There, is that better?

I used to key farm regularly before the NPE. That made key farming much more time-consuming and tedious. Still, tomes of knowledge to level 10 and a quick run through of the human commoner story still isn’t too bad, but I don’t do it anymore unless I’m willing to spend the tomes on it.

Bubi.7942:

I wouldn’t call it the most rewarding thing by far.

If you compare the gem prices with gold prices… let’s see…

An avarage run for a key 20-25 mins (yes you can do super speed runs for 18 mins, but that wont happen every time), but it’s more likely a bit more with character creatin and deleting. 25 keys is 2100 gems. So that’s roughly a bit more than 10 hours “playtime”.

2100 gems currently is around 260 gold. That’s a 26 gold per hour “income”. And…

Huh… it may be the most profitable after all

thing is, no one buys keys with gold, it isnt worth 10 gold, on average i think it used to come to like 3 gold an hour.

you are always better off buying the item direct, if you want anything specific. Its mostly just the thrill of the gamble, and the low level time attack people like

Wrong and wrong. You’re at bsing statistics because you like to omit data to fit a theorem.

Omitting something that’s assigned part of the value of the key, and then reassigning it to what you want, is not how that workings. Just because you might not personally use everything in the black lion’s chest does not mean they have value, and also, even if the ticket scraps are the only “relevant” thing(which they’re not as proven by the wiki links below) the values is still, a percent of the original.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Oh look at that.

Look at all those things with value.

@edgarallanpwn.8739:

Ok, in one set of 35 runs, maybe (maybe) I’ll get one mini and 3 unidentified dyes (I’m making a generous guess here). We’ll say 2 gold.

So, subtract 2 gold from my calculated price of 256.66 gold to get 254.66 gold.

There, is that better?

Laugh all you want, if this were TRULY right, the prices would be much higher regardless of ability to farm.

Ohwait, theres a wiki with everything that drops.

Luck doesn’t matter. Its percentage based.

Laugh more at the fact that you’re an ultracrepidarian.

Hoh man. A lot of the dyes in those kits are also worth 100g+

Black Lion Chest Key.png Black Lion Chest Key
Black Lion Salvage Kit.png Black Lion Salvage Kit
Box of Fun.png Box o’ Fun
Communal Boost Bonfire.png Communal Boost Bonfire
Dye Pack.png Dye Pack²
Metabolic Primer.png Metabolic Primer
Utility Primer.png Utility Primer
Tome of Knowledge.png Tome of Knowledge
Unidentified Dye.png Unidentified Dye (1-2)
Flame Dye Kit.png Flame Dye Kit
Frost Dye Kit.png Frost Dye Kit
Deathly Dye Kit.png Deathly Dye Kit
Toxic Dye Kit.png Toxic Dye Kit
Taimi’s Dye Kit.png Taimi’s Dye Kit
Metallurgic Dye Kit.png Metallurgic Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit
Heavy Crafting Bag.png Heavy Crafting Bag
Large Crafting Bag.png Large Crafting Bag
Medium Crafting Bag.png Medium Crafting Bag
Platinum Mining Node.png Platinum Mining Node
Platinum Mining Node.png Mithril Mining Node
Orichalcum Mining Node.png Orichalcum Mining Node
Elder Wood Logging Node.png Elder Wood Logging Node
Ancient Wood Logging Node.png Ancient Wood Logging Node
Lotus Harvesting Node.png Lotus Harvesting Node
Omnomberry Harvesting Node.png Omnomberry Harvesting Node
Snow Truffle Harvesting Node.png Snow Truffle Harvesting Node
Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node.png Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node
Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node.png Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node

Lets also go to the statistics page.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Wrong and wrong. You’re at bsing statistics because you like to omit data to fit a theorem.

Omitting something that’s assigned part of the value of the key, and then reassigning it to what you want, is not how that workings. Just because you might not personally use everything in the black lion’s chest does not mean they have value, and also, even if the ticket scraps are the only “relevant” thing(which they’re not as proven by the wiki links below) the values is still, a percent of the original.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Oh look at that.

Look at all those things with value.

@edgarallanpwn.8739:

Ok, in one set of 35 runs, maybe (maybe) I’ll get one mini and 3 unidentified dyes (I’m making a generous guess here). We’ll say 2 gold.

So, subtract 2 gold from my calculated price of 256.66 gold to get 254.66 gold.

There, is that better?

Laugh all you want, if this were TRULY right, the prices would be much higher regardless of ability to farm.

Ohwait, theres a wiki with everything that drops.

Luck doesn’t matter. Its percentage based.

Laugh more at the fact that you’re an ultracrepidarian.

Hoh man. A lot of the dyes in those kits are also worth 100g+

Black Lion Chest Key.png Black Lion Chest Key
Black Lion Salvage Kit.png Black Lion Salvage Kit
Box of Fun.png Box o’ Fun
Communal Boost Bonfire.png Communal Boost Bonfire
Dye Pack.png Dye Pack²
Metabolic Primer.png Metabolic Primer
Utility Primer.png Utility Primer
Tome of Knowledge.png Tome of Knowledge
Unidentified Dye.png Unidentified Dye (1-2)
Flame Dye Kit.png Flame Dye Kit
Frost Dye Kit.png Frost Dye Kit
Deathly Dye Kit.png Deathly Dye Kit
Toxic Dye Kit.png Toxic Dye Kit
Taimi’s Dye Kit.png Taimi’s Dye Kit
Metallurgic Dye Kit.png Metallurgic Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit
Heavy Crafting Bag.png Heavy Crafting Bag
Large Crafting Bag.png Large Crafting Bag
Medium Crafting Bag.png Medium Crafting Bag
Platinum Mining Node.png Platinum Mining Node
Platinum Mining Node.png Mithril Mining Node
Orichalcum Mining Node.png Orichalcum Mining Node
Elder Wood Logging Node.png Elder Wood Logging Node
Ancient Wood Logging Node.png Ancient Wood Logging Node
Lotus Harvesting Node.png Lotus Harvesting Node
Omnomberry Harvesting Node.png Omnomberry Harvesting Node
Snow Truffle Harvesting Node.png Snow Truffle Harvesting Node
Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node.png Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node
Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node.png Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node

Lets also go to the statistics page.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Just so you know, your list includes items that currently have a 0% chance to drop making it invalid.

Buying keys with real money is literally gambling.

ANet has a lot of systems in place where if you can’t buy the convenience with gem store items, you can still succeed and make money by putting time into the game.

You aren’t making $30 an hour key farming because you aren’t farming gems, you’re farming the equivalent of lottery tickets or slot machine tokens.

@OP I don’t know what your arbitrary moral stance on key farming is all about, but you really need to look at the big picture before you judge something you JUST found out the details on.

I have barely any gold in-game and enjoy doing the things in game that don’t earn you money. I key farm every once in a while because it’s a way to invest a short amount of time for a CHANCE (not a guarantee!) of making a little gold.

I think I’ve probably farmed keys about 20-25 times and I only just got enough scraps for a black lion ticket. Everything else I got was random black lion goods that no one really cares about. I mean I have a stack of all the black lion goods I got from completing story and getting random drops just piling up in my inventory. Other people just use them randomly to get rid of them.

I spend about 1.5 gold per run to level with cooking, so I spent about 38 gold on 25 key farms to get 1 black lion ticket that i can trade in for a weapon skin worth 65 gold. That’s hardly a huge pile of profit.

Most of what you get out of key farming is useless or marginally profitable.

Like someone said earlier, there are other ways to make gold faster.

There’s nothing wrong with key farming existing.

mtpelion.4562:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Wrong and wrong. You’re at bsing statistics because you like to omit data to fit a theorem.

Omitting something that’s assigned part of the value of the key, and then reassigning it to what you want, is not how that workings. Just because you might not personally use everything in the black lion’s chest does not mean they have value, and also, even if the ticket scraps are the only “relevant” thing(which they’re not as proven by the wiki links below) the values is still, a percent of the original.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Oh look at that.

Look at all those things with value.

@edgarallanpwn.8739:

Ok, in one set of 35 runs, maybe (maybe) I’ll get one mini and 3 unidentified dyes (I’m making a generous guess here). We’ll say 2 gold.

So, subtract 2 gold from my calculated price of 256.66 gold to get 254.66 gold.

There, is that better?

Laugh all you want, if this were TRULY right, the prices would be much higher regardless of ability to farm.

Ohwait, theres a wiki with everything that drops.

Luck doesn’t matter. Its percentage based.

Laugh more at the fact that you’re an ultracrepidarian.

Hoh man. A lot of the dyes in those kits are also worth 100g+

Black Lion Chest Key.png Black Lion Chest Key
Black Lion Salvage Kit.png Black Lion Salvage Kit
Box of Fun.png Box o’ Fun
Communal Boost Bonfire.png Communal Boost Bonfire
Dye Pack.png Dye Pack²
Metabolic Primer.png Metabolic Primer
Utility Primer.png Utility Primer
Tome of Knowledge.png Tome of Knowledge
Unidentified Dye.png Unidentified Dye (1-2)
Flame Dye Kit.png Flame Dye Kit
Frost Dye Kit.png Frost Dye Kit
Deathly Dye Kit.png Deathly Dye Kit
Toxic Dye Kit.png Toxic Dye Kit
Taimi’s Dye Kit.png Taimi’s Dye Kit
Metallurgic Dye Kit.png Metallurgic Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit
Heavy Crafting Bag.png Heavy Crafting Bag
Large Crafting Bag.png Large Crafting Bag
Medium Crafting Bag.png Medium Crafting Bag
Platinum Mining Node.png Platinum Mining Node
Platinum Mining Node.png Mithril Mining Node
Orichalcum Mining Node.png Orichalcum Mining Node
Elder Wood Logging Node.png Elder Wood Logging Node
Ancient Wood Logging Node.png Ancient Wood Logging Node
Lotus Harvesting Node.png Lotus Harvesting Node
Omnomberry Harvesting Node.png Omnomberry Harvesting Node
Snow Truffle Harvesting Node.png Snow Truffle Harvesting Node
Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node.png Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node
Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node.png Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node

Lets also go to the statistics page.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Just so you know, your list includes items that currently have a 0% chance to drop making it invalid.

Just so you know that link also includes many many items that do have a % chance to drop like the wiki says, which you also stated have “0 value” which do have value.

Do you really want to go there?

You can admit the TRULY 0% chance items, but even if its 1 in 500000000, that’s still a chance, and it still has a value.

However that doesn’t change the fact you spewed the “you can dismiss the value of everything except tickets” statement.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

mtpelion.4562:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Wrong and wrong. You’re at bsing statistics because you like to omit data to fit a theorem.

Omitting something that’s assigned part of the value of the key, and then reassigning it to what you want, is not how that workings. Just because you might not personally use everything in the black lion’s chest does not mean they have value, and also, even if the ticket scraps are the only “relevant” thing(which they’re not as proven by the wiki links below) the values is still, a percent of the original.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Oh look at that.

Look at all those things with value.

@edgarallanpwn.8739:

Ok, in one set of 35 runs, maybe (maybe) I’ll get one mini and 3 unidentified dyes (I’m making a generous guess here). We’ll say 2 gold.

So, subtract 2 gold from my calculated price of 256.66 gold to get 254.66 gold.

There, is that better?

Laugh all you want, if this were TRULY right, the prices would be much higher regardless of ability to farm.

Ohwait, theres a wiki with everything that drops.

Luck doesn’t matter. Its percentage based.

Laugh more at the fact that you’re an ultracrepidarian.

Hoh man. A lot of the dyes in those kits are also worth 100g+

Black Lion Chest Key.png Black Lion Chest Key
Black Lion Salvage Kit.png Black Lion Salvage Kit
Box of Fun.png Box o’ Fun
Communal Boost Bonfire.png Communal Boost Bonfire
Dye Pack.png Dye Pack²
Metabolic Primer.png Metabolic Primer
Utility Primer.png Utility Primer
Tome of Knowledge.png Tome of Knowledge
Unidentified Dye.png Unidentified Dye (1-2)
Flame Dye Kit.png Flame Dye Kit
Frost Dye Kit.png Frost Dye Kit
Deathly Dye Kit.png Deathly Dye Kit
Toxic Dye Kit.png Toxic Dye Kit
Taimi’s Dye Kit.png Taimi’s Dye Kit
Metallurgic Dye Kit.png Metallurgic Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Survivors Dye Kit
Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit.png Lion’s Arch Commemorative Dye Kit
Heavy Crafting Bag.png Heavy Crafting Bag
Large Crafting Bag.png Large Crafting Bag
Medium Crafting Bag.png Medium Crafting Bag
Platinum Mining Node.png Platinum Mining Node
Platinum Mining Node.png Mithril Mining Node
Orichalcum Mining Node.png Orichalcum Mining Node
Elder Wood Logging Node.png Elder Wood Logging Node
Ancient Wood Logging Node.png Ancient Wood Logging Node
Lotus Harvesting Node.png Lotus Harvesting Node
Omnomberry Harvesting Node.png Omnomberry Harvesting Node
Snow Truffle Harvesting Node.png Snow Truffle Harvesting Node
Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node.png Orrian Truffle Harvesting Node
Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node.png Ghost Pepper Harvesting Node

Lets also go to the statistics page.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest/Drop_rate

Just so you know, your list includes items that currently have a 0% chance to drop making it invalid.

Just so you know that link also includes many many items that do have a % chance to drop like the wiki says, which you also stated have “0 value” which do have value.

Do you really want to go there?

You can admit the TRULY 0% chance items, but even if its 1 in 500000000, that’s still a chance, and it still has a value.

However that doesn’t change the fact you spewed the “you can dismiss the value of everything except tickets” statement.

The % chance to get those items multiplied by the value of those items added together adds up to less than 1g, thus you can exclude them from the calculation because they don’t have a meaningful impact. Of all the items you can get, only the Black Lion Claim Tickets and Scraps add up to a meaningful amount of value when their droprate has been multiplied against their sell value.

So yes, to get the most accurate expected gold value for each key you would need to spend the time factoring all of those things, however if we skip them entirely you are off by less than 1g, so it isn’t worth the effort to count them.

Things that have essentially zero percent chance can be ignored.

Now for the other items, account bound items, how do you value them, at ANet’s value or the value that you yourself put on them?

If I would never buy the item, then no matter what ANet claims it’s worth, I value it at zero. My opinion of what something I get for free (no out of pocket cost) is worth is how I should price it for my evaluation, not someone else’s (ANet’s) value. I don’t buy these items because I value them less than ANet’s price.

Boosters: I have a bunch of them and the reason why I have so many is because i don’t value them enough to use them. Low value. Maybe a silver.
Revive orbs: low value. Maybe the cost of the nearest waypoint. 1 to 2 silver
Trading post: If I need to go to one I waypoint for free to PvP or WvW. Zero value
Merchant: same as above
Crafting bags: rare drop, of value but when divided by the number of keys it needs to get even one, low value.
Various dye kits: rare drop. Valuable dye inside: rare drop. So it’s a rare drop times a rare drop. Low value.
Tomes of knowledge: rare. Low value. I get more from dailies and PvP.
Box of fun: zero value to me. I have these and don’t use.
Primers: same as box of fun. Have some, don’t bother to use. Low to zero value to me.
Key: low drop. Some value
Black lion kit: wouldn’t buy. I get these from daily or use a mystic kit if I don’t have. Low value.

If someone hand you a piece of junk and claims it’s worth X gold/dollars, is it worth X gold/dollars or is it still a piece of junk.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

However that doesn’t change the fact you spewed the “you can dismiss the value of everything except tickets” statement.

But you really CAN dismiss the value of everything except tickets because the rest is just scattered random loot. You CAN get scattered random loot from doing many things in game that AREN’T key farming, but you CAN’T get claim tickets from doing many things in the game.

The value of the random non-ticket items you get are essentially no more valuable than the random items you get from doing most anything in the game.

Astral Projections.7320:

If someone hand you a piece of junk and claims it’s worth X gold/dollars, is it worth X gold/dollars or is it still a piece of junk.

See Astral Projection’s full post for an analysis I agree with on the low value of black lion goods that aligns with the idea that the random non-ticket items are all insignificant profit-wise.

Mo Mo.1947:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

However that doesn’t change the fact you spewed the “you can dismiss the value of everything except tickets” statement.

But you really CAN dismiss the value of everything except tickets because the rest is just scattered random loot. You CAN get scattered random loot from doing many things in game that AREN’T key farming, but you CAN’T get claim tickets from doing many things in the game.

The value of the random non-ticket items you get are essentially no more valuable than the random items you get from doing most anything in the game.

Astral Projections.7320:

If someone hand you a piece of junk and claims it’s worth X gold/dollars, is it worth X gold/dollars or is it still a piece of junk.

See Astral Projection’s full post for an analysis I agree with on the low value of black lion goods that aligns with the idea that the random non-ticket items are all insignificant profit-wise.

If this were entirely true, then even if the market was over flooded, the price of a 1ticket skins wouldn’t drop to 1/3rd the “supposed” value by your calculations. It’s not exactly like theres an overflow of skins currently. why is this then?

If theres a direct real value to it, then the varying value farmed by other methods shouldn’t change so drastically.

there’s some “skin favorism” based on the wepaon, but the fluctuation is still high outside of that.

We would need to see some raw data on numbers sold, prices, and an over time analysis.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

Keyfarming has already been nerfed. You can’t do a complete key run in 20 minutes anymore, unless you have tomes of knowledge, which you will run out of eventually.

Instead of patching or nerfing lucrative farms, Anet should actually buff other rewards so these farms are no longer desirable.

It’s ridiculous that if I want to obtain a bit of wealth in this game I have to resort to farming or playing the TP. With farming I can make 10g every 30 minutes. Even the best of the best of the best dungeon speedrunners can’t make that amount of gold in such a short amount of time.

Obviously the fastest way to make gold in GW2 is to take out the good ol’ credit card and that’s probably never going to change, but just playing GW2 normally should seriously be a lot more rewarding than it is now.

Anet, if you want to discourage people to do farms like these, you should encourage people to play the game normally by making the rewards for the “normal” activities more rewarding! Don’t nerf these farms until every rewards in the game sucks equally bad, buff the other rewards until every reward is at least somewhat decent/worthwhile!

If tomes are being used then time spent getting the tomes would have to be factored into that “20 minutes”.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

If this were entirely true, then even if the market was over flooded, the price of a 1ticket skins wouldn’t drop to 1/3rd the “supposed” value by your calculations. It’s not exactly like theres an overflow of skins currently. why is this then?

If theres a direct real value to it, then the varying value farmed by other methods shouldn’t change so drastically.

there’s some “skin favorism” based on the wepaon, but the fluctuation is still high outside of that.

What are you referencing to? Your reply has nothing to do with my post. Did you mean to quote someone else?

I wasn’t talking about the price of skins. I was talking about the value of everything BUT the skin.

How does the low value of everything else have anything to do with what you’re saying about the market trade value of a skin?

Mo Mo.1947:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

If this were entirely true, then even if the market was over flooded, the price of a 1ticket skins wouldn’t drop to 1/3rd the “supposed” value by your calculations. It’s not exactly like theres an overflow of skins currently. why is this then?

If theres a direct real value to it, then the varying value farmed by other methods shouldn’t change so drastically.

there’s some “skin favorism” based on the wepaon, but the fluctuation is still high outside of that.

What are you referencing to? Your reply has nothing to do with my post. Did you mean to quote someone else?

I wasn’t talking about the price of skins. I was talking about the value of everything BUT the skin.

How does the low value of everything else have anything to do with what you’re saying about the market trade value of a skin?

Astral Projections.7320:

Now true, after I’ve run sufficient key runs, about 25 to 40 depending on RNG, I’ll have a ticket with which I can buy a weapon skin. I can sell it then for maybe 60 to 90 gold or I can hold it for 6 months and pray it goes up in value.