Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

Don’t blame the players for champion farming. Blame ANet for having a terrible reward system. I miss playing MMOs where running dungeons actually DROPPED high end, but it was down to luck. I loathe how we have to farm out lives out then max crafts to get best gear. I hate crafting and imo it should be optional, which it WAS until recently. Hell Exotics (bound when picked up) should drop all the time in dungeons, and ascended BoP with random stats in fractals. Then it comes down to luck but at least you’re seeing cool kitten. The system they have now is boring and grindy. I’m find with grindy if you at least have a CHANCE to randomly get upgrades/cool stuff. I’d rather get BoP Ascended armor every so often from the last bosses of dungeons (even just once a day) and have a chance of getting the good stats you want, rather than grinding my face away then leveling boring and expensive trades just to have good armor. Talk about a zzz fest.

So basically you want exotics handed to you on a silver platter? Good luck on that.
If you really think it’s a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fest, please go play something else. Kthxbai

If gold is your goal, there are much better ways to aquire it, but the Queensdale train is great for karma and xp, which is a really big reason people run it.

I kinda like the champ trains.

Not sure about anyone else but our guild puts up banners, people thank us, some have even joined our guild. I’ve met new guildies, dungeon mates, theorycrafters and more running the trains.

The best thing about the queensdale train is you don’t have to be 70+ to run it like the FGS one.

Since there are a bunch of people around it allows me to try trait / weapon / utility combos I wouldn’t think of trying out fresh in fractals or dungeons. I try different rotations, I experiment with the combo system, different builds, and different stat spreads.

The train is only as boring as you let it be.

If you run into one of the rare jackwagons that is rude, report them then block and move on.

MAD CAT.9321:

ronpierce.2760:

Don’t blame the players for champion farming. Blame ANet for having a terrible reward system. I miss playing MMOs where running dungeons actually DROPPED high end, but it was down to luck. I loathe how we have to farm out lives out then max crafts to get best gear. I hate crafting and imo it should be optional, which it WAS until recently. Hell Exotics (bound when picked up) should drop all the time in dungeons, and ascended BoP with random stats in fractals. Then it comes down to luck but at least you’re seeing cool kitten. The system they have now is boring and grindy. I’m find with grindy if you at least have a CHANCE to randomly get upgrades/cool stuff. I’d rather get BoP Ascended armor every so often from the last bosses of dungeons (even just once a day) and have a chance of getting the good stats you want, rather than grinding my face away then leveling boring and expensive trades just to have good armor. Talk about a zzz fest.

So basically you want exotics handed to you on a silver platter? Good luck on that.
If you really think it’s a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fest, please go play something else. Kthxbai

Running the content is supposed to be the “challenge” of the game that is to be rewarded, not collecting gold from farming, leveling boring crafts then (buying, because you can’t possibly farm the t6+ mats) to make better stuff, plus all the other run arounds. Yes it’s very zzzzz because there’s not surprising happy moments, its all a long boring road. Unless of course you get a precursor, which is basically like getting something handed to you on a silver platter based entirely on RNG, in which you sell to BUY the boring stuff to make the one thing you actually wanted. And I do play something else. I play PvP, I don’t pve in this game because it’s a joke. Equip all your zerker gear, go nuts mindlessly dodging what little 1 shots you can, rez one another a bunch and #win.

I’m indifferent to it. I can see the concerns about it being in QD, but I’ve seen way worse mapchat in other games and I’ve never seen it get THAT bad on TC. The rage was more hilarious (and filled with hilariously bad metaphors) than “omg scary”. I also see that it’s a nice thing that you don’t have to be lv70+ to do it if you want to participate for whatever reason.

Sure when all these other events give loot appropriate to the amount of effort they require. Until then i’m sorry i’m too busy making money (on the fgs train at least)

I usually don’t mind other’s business. Turn the page, switch the channel if you don’t like it.

There’s a fair bit of misconception in this thread.

• “nerf champ farming so players will spread out more” — a nerf will not “spread players out”
• “champ rewards should drop only from max level champs” — this will result in champs anywhere else being ignored as “not worth the effort” — exactly as they were before the bags were added
• “champ trains are not a problem except for the occasional argument in chat” — if those arguments generate enough reports to CS that the CS employees can’t keep up, ANet will act, at which point those acting out will have ruined the farm for others

Even though it was a burden on my schedule, I kinda missed having these unique mobs have a long, window to spawn in. Maybe back then the rewards rarely justified the rarity of loot or eye bleeding wait times, but not having to spam them made up for it greatly.

Champion enemies, IMHO, should be like this.

1. Long respawn time (1-5h?). Depending on the loot/title/etc that it offers, longer. There is no claim system, so you don’t have to worry about someone taking it from under you (hated that).

2. Have much stronger loot tables. No one should be forced to wait hours on hours for a slim chance at their desired reward, if a mini boss is going to require a large wait time, make it worth while. Not 100% loot, but it should be worth the effort.

3. More skins that only drop from these champions/legendaries. Also, make them account bound. Remember, skins aren’t a necessity, they should have some rarity attached so those with it can look more unique. The crystal Guardian, that dark purple sword, everyone just buys it. It was a good looking sword but just like legendary skins, it got over used real quick once supply got up.

4. Make them scale with nearby player count AND have interesting mechanics. There are a ton of bosses that aren’t a simple swing and loot fest, its clear that its possible just some of them are all too predictable or leave no real impact on those around. Walls, conditions, shields granting a boon on absorb, etc. No zerg should be able to stomp it no matter how large.

Champions in open pve in this game just don’t scare me at all. I stumble into one and just go “meh”. I can either outrun it no problem or solo it. If its in a champ train zone, it usually dies by the time I turn around. I’ve done the champ train in frostgorge a couple times and not only did I get weak loot, it was HORRIBLY boring. I mean the champs die in like 5 seconds, where is the fun in that? And we just go in a circle and do it over and over… I don’t get how anyone can sit through that for more than 40 minutes without moving on.

I like the idea of these low level champs dropping loot appropriate for their level. That goes about double since they are all soloable which I have personally done many times on my days off when there is no zerg running.

To have a huge zerg runing for soloable content is kinda stupid.

This way, there would still be a zerg, albeit, a more appropriate one as more people would run it not just for the loot but to actually level their toons.

I recently created a new toon and tried leveling through exploration and events.

The rewards were just too small for the time spent. I couldn’t even keep my gear up to level playing this way. But perhaps more importantly, knowing that Ascended armor was coming up, I wasn’t doing enough to prepare for the grind.

So now I champ train. My gear is pretty much always up to level. I salvage everything — getting tons of luck and lower level mats for the ascended gear.

Without the threat of ascended gear coming out, I’d likely be exploring and doing DEs all over the map instead of the champ train.

I did not read every comment but most for the people who enjoy the champ trains that is fine. The problem will be when the economy gets so inflated it stops new or current players who don’t like to farm from reaching there goals. Things that were 5-10 silver when the game launched are now 30-60 silver and prices will keep rising. I don’t like to farm and because of work 6-7 months during the year I am lucky to play 1-2 hours a month. The way things are progressing now by this time next year I will just be playing a different game and that is all anyone can really do.

I really hope they continue “champ trains” as a playstyle, but move it to another zone.

It’s not healthy for the game to introduce it to players JUST starting out, and it does promote a lot of bad blood.

Perhaps move it to somewhere more desolate, like Fields of Ruins? Southsun Cove? Snowden Drifts?

Dreadforce.6980:

I did not read every comment but most for the people who enjoy the champ trains that is fine. The problem will be when the economy gets so inflated it stops new or current players who don’t like to farm from reaching there goals. Things that were 5-10 silver when the game launched are now 30-60 silver and prices will keep rising.

It is mainly the result of all the game’s wealth slowly drifting towards a relatively small part of population. If you diminish gold income to players, you will slow down that process, but you won’t stop it. At the same time you will also, unfortunately, make it so that any new players will have even more problems of gaining enough gold to afford things they want.

What you need to do is to increase the supply of the items in question.

TL/DR: if you think that precursors cost too much, lowering gold income will only put them even more beyond player’s reach, and won’t stop them from increasing in price. For that, the chances of getting them from drops or MF would need to get better.

I wish they would move Champion Farming to a different zone. I have literally met new players, with level 16+ toons, who didn’t want to leave Queensdale and experience the rest of PvE. I’ve also seen guilds start up just for farming Queensdale.

I wish it is was moved to a 15-25, or 25-35 zone so players have an incentive to explore the rest of the game. Gendarran Fields is a great candidate because any race can access it by porting to Lion’s arch.

I still think Queensdale should still have an event train though. In fact, all the starting areas should. It was really convenient to be able to WP back to Queensdale if I ever became underleveled. But a starting zone shouldn’t have 5 Champions like Queensdale does now.

TL/DR: Move Champ Farming to Gendarran Fields. Replace Champion train with different event chain for low-level toons.

MAD CAT.9321:

Ilmatar.6709:

Queensdale Champion Train is wonderful, relaxing and you can clear your mind. It is peaceful, and this game does not have so much peaceful places after all.

I have level up most of my characters just opening maps and doing all hearts, and doing most of the events on the way. It is stressing, boring, lonely business. It is like playing single player game in MMO world. If I see on the road like 5 people on the same area where I am, that is lucky. In this way I earn like 8 – 9 gold on the road, when I do all hearts and most of the events. But when I jump in the Queensdale train, in a day I can earn more money. I just smash all white, blue, green and yellow items, and end of the day I will sell all those materials and get my money. I only save those exotics ones.

Most of all, I can see other players in Queensdale Champion Train, we are many, we have fun, but most of all, I can leave all stress from my sholders and finally enjoy the game.

So let the train go on. Those who don’t like Queensdale Champion Train, they don’t need to jump in. But those who likes it, let them have it.

I agree 100% with you

Ditto from me too!!!

There’s too much toxicity surrounding the champ train. For the betterment of the game, it has to go.

Change them to elites. People who are leveling alts can still do the events for the xp/karma but the champ bag farmers will be gone.

Didn’t they already nerf the champ bag loot recently. I think the amount of coins it dropped got nerfed.

So far I have leveled 1 alt through queensdale champ train and in process of leveling another, but generally I use it for getting my daily’s done. Just 2 or 3 rounds of the train and I get 3 or 4(or even 5) daily’s done. After that I jump on to my level 80s and go do the current LS/WvW/World Bosses.

People do it coz its easy and relatively stress free with decent rewards. Regarding the question of Champ bag farmers, there are already lots of better ways (excluding playing TP) that give better result than champ farming.

Aerlen.5326:

This again?

The only issue with the champ train is the attitude of some people running it. That’s it, if those select individuals would behave and not act like the world had ended if a champ gets killed by someone else – it’d be fine.

This. I was running Queensdale circle yesterday (for the daily group events and because I wanted to do the JP there anyway). And people got very nasty when the oak got killed by others than the zerg.

If I had been there with some friends and we’d seen a champion, we would have tackled it, no matter if there was a zerg or not. Others are also entitled to kill champs.

ronpierce.2760:

Running the content is supposed to be the “challenge” of the game that is to be rewarded

I don’t play this or any game for challenge or suffering. I play it for fun, the fantasy, and the social immersion that events like the Champ trains bring. As they are laid back, social, and rewarding. If you haven’t noticed it is one of the few areas in the game where large groups can come together peacefully. Which is what I believe bothers those few whom despise and disrupt the train. They simply don’t like others enjoying themselves collectively.

I think the champ train can be a great place for new players to meet others and ask questions. If anything is making it toxic, it’s those antisocial players that are going out of their way to derail, diminish, or outright destroy the train. After getting treated in such a fashion, how can one not expect those on the train to be agitated?

If you’d like for the train to have greater challenge, fine. To the Dev’s, please increase the champs difficulty to the point where they cannot be killed without 8 or more players. This will keep the toxic antisocial solo players from creating havok in Queensdale.

For playing in the other zones, I simply do not like the environment of most other zones. Queensdale is lush, green, and open. It’s just a nice place to spend time! Wayfarer Foothill’s is another similar zone to run around in. Frost Gorge isn’t a bad map either. For all the rest, I have little desire to go into them no matter the reward. Forget Ascalon as that place sucks! (to me)

I mostly ignore trains. If the map chat bothers me, i turn it off. If i accidently step on Larry the trolls toe before the train gets there, and i get tons of angry whispers, i Block them long before reporting them. More effective.

I think its sad that it exists. I think its the problem with the playerbase, that flows like water, to the direction of least resistance/greatest gain ratio. Its not Cof1, then its Queensdale champs. If not Queensdale champs, it will be something else. The least resistance and the greatest reward ratio always wins and gets exploited massively.

Im just sad when i see a newby seeing the announcement on mapchat that Oak is up, and just asks “Where?” Thats the first impression of the game appearently, and they are all for it. Its not the game the developers intended. I cant help it, and its not my job to help it or lead a crusade against it. People acting like mindless drones and bots as they follow the train are appearently not mindless bots, and have reasons and voiced opinions protecting their precious railways, and i cant bother trying to convince train-folks one by one.

If you are looking for a solution, make events scale much better, considering numbers of players not only up to 10 but further up, and absolutely considering the level of those players not just to the collective player level downscale, but their real level. Incease the resistence, while keeping the reward rate.

MAD CAT.9321:

“Just because I don’t like doing it, others shouldn’t have fun doing it either.” Makes sense.

You can have all the fun you want, I couldn’t care less about that, but inflation affects me and guess where is all that gold coming from.

Sure trains shouldn’t disappear, is a relaxing activity for those who wanna play in easy mode. The problem is that the easiest activity in the game shouldn’t be the most rewarding.

There’s not much Anet can do without annoying a lot of players.

I suppose if you really want to get rid of the champ trains, you can establish some sort of guild which constantly griefs the train by killing champions out of order…..

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s not much Anet can do without annoying a lot of players.

I suppose if you really want to get rid of the champ trains, you can establish some sort of guild which constantly griefs the train by killing champions out of order…..

The vast majority of train folks aren’t jerks, so griefing them (on TC, many of them are lowbies and a decent portion are new) is not, IMO, the right thing to do.

What IS the right thing to do is to report those who are verbally abusive (on either side of the argument; some of the non-train folks get hostile just because, too). If everyone reports these creeps, ANet will tempban them, they have no problem with banning folks for language.

If somehow you still see them raging, block them.

I try to defuse arguments if I see them start, eventually it dies down. Being polite and cheerful usually solves a lot of it. And if you kill a champ outside the train, just meep mapchat to let folks know, imo, just like when folks kill SB.

What I really don’t like seeing is the ‘kick 80s out of Queensdale’ mentality that’s going on; ANet specifically changed things to try to keep every area worthwhile for any level range to visit, as they want people in the world. 80s belong in starter zones as much as any other levels, which is why rewards were adjusted to drop same-(or similar)level stuff, and why they get downscaled.

And yes, new players and lowbies make up a notable portion of the train and they do get their hits in.

It isn’t kick 80s out of Queens, it’s more like there’s no reason for 80s to be in a 80 area. Why the heck does running champ trains give more loot than Arah?

Last night a complete stranger who apparently started playing GW2 a short while ago marveled at the Queensdale champion train. Just couldn’t believe that there was a game where new players and experienced players fought side-by-side sharing the challenge and the reward. He/she couldn’t think of another MMO where that sort of thing occurred, and apparently she/he has played in a lot of them. I must confess I’ve never thought of it in just that way before but golly, there’s some truth to this.

Sure there’s sometimes unwanted drama with the existence of the train itself; but I can’t ever recall anyone complaining about the levels, classes, style and talent of the participants. It’s just one big happy family. Not so in say, PUG dungeons.

The majority of arguments in Queensdale map chat are caused by players guesting from other servers, they intentionally disrupt the train and then boast/troll/flame.

I have not interacted with others as much as I do in the Queendsale train in any other mmo, ever.
When I want to be alone, I go to Orr.

Morrigan.2809:

Zhaneel.9208:

There are five newbie zones to level up in. New players can just use the Asura gates in LA to travel to any of the other four zones if the Champ train in Queensdale really bothers them that much.

Personally I don’t see a problem with it. It’s simple, fun and rewarding. It’s natural that players would immediately seek out more efficient means of attaining gold or achievements and this happens in any game. I enjoyed the interaction you get with other players too.

If level 80 content were a little more fleshed out, you wouldn’t see trains like this occurring in low level zones at all.

real new players don’t know about the asura gates or that they can just travel to other zones- why would they?
What if they roll a human?

Queensdale train is just too stacked- it counts for dailies, monthlies, karma, events and the champs are on short re-spawn and trigger able.

Go to any other map except FS and you will find it filled with champs running around unmolested.

All you have to do is visit your race’s city. It’s right next to your spawning point after the intro battle. How hard can that be?

The biggest problem with champ trains in general is that its the only thing that keeps some people playing. The reasons this even happened is the reward system and drop rates are and always have been terrible. If you also add in the fact with how fast you level the only gear worth anything is lvl 80 exotic. I don’t think champ trains will ever stop the only thing that might happen is they might be moved to a different zone.

Dreadforce.6980:

If you also add in the fact with how fast you level the only gear worth anything is lvl 80 exotic.

You raised a good point, and people can go from 2-80 in Queensdale wearing starter armor and then buy exotic everything.

Galtrix.7369:

timmyf.1490:

I believe the main problem is that it creates a TERRIBLE first impression of the game for anybody who begins with a human character. (Which is the plurality choice.) Those champ train folks can get rather nasty in map chat.

It may be a terrible first impression, but it’s an honest first impression. You can expect the rest of the game to be terrible if you don’t like the champ trains in Queensdale.

Are you implying that the rest of GW2 is just filled with trains? Because, that would be a lie. If you don’t like champ trains in Queensdale, then you won’t like ~0.2% of the game…

Zhaneel.9208:

Morrigan.2809:

Zhaneel.9208:

There are five newbie zones to level up in. New players can just use the Asura gates in LA to travel to any of the other four zones if the Champ train in Queensdale really bothers them that much.

Personally I don’t see a problem with it. It’s simple, fun and rewarding. It’s natural that players would immediately seek out more efficient means of attaining gold or achievements and this happens in any game. I enjoyed the interaction you get with other players too.

If level 80 content were a little more fleshed out, you wouldn’t see trains like this occurring in low level zones at all.

real new players don’t know about the asura gates or that they can just travel to other zones- why would they?
What if they roll a human?

Queensdale train is just too stacked- it counts for dailies, monthlies, karma, events and the champs are on short re-spawn and trigger able.

Go to any other map except FS and you will find it filled with champs running around unmolested.

All you have to do is visit your race’s city. It’s right next to your spawning point after the intro battle. How hard can that be?

New players still miss it and they tend to follow their personal story until it takes them to LA when they join an Order.
I have lost count of how many times I have shown Asura gates to people

I don’t think champ trains should be removed people are already struggling to make money and enjoy the game. Why remove another avenue of enjoyment for some people. Obviously if they cared about the other world quest event’s they be doing them. Chances are if you removed champ trains people would just leave the game out of frustration. Thus making the entire point of removal pointless.

ronpierce.2760:

MAD CAT.9321:

ronpierce.2760:

Don’t blame the players for champion farming. Blame ANet for having a terrible reward system. I miss playing MMOs where running dungeons actually DROPPED high end, but it was down to luck. I loathe how we have to farm out lives out then max crafts to get best gear. I hate crafting and imo it should be optional, which it WAS until recently. Hell Exotics (bound when picked up) should drop all the time in dungeons, and ascended BoP with random stats in fractals. Then it comes down to luck but at least you’re seeing cool kitten. The system they have now is boring and grindy. I’m find with grindy if you at least have a CHANCE to randomly get upgrades/cool stuff. I’d rather get BoP Ascended armor every so often from the last bosses of dungeons (even just once a day) and have a chance of getting the good stats you want, rather than grinding my face away then leveling boring and expensive trades just to have good armor. Talk about a zzz fest.

So basically you want exotics handed to you on a silver platter? Good luck on that.
If you really think it’s a zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz fest, please go play something else. Kthxbai

Running the content is supposed to be the “challenge” of the game that is to be rewarded, not collecting gold from farming, leveling boring crafts then (buying, because you can’t possibly farm the t6+ mats) to make better stuff, plus all the other run arounds. Yes it’s very zzzzz because there’s not surprising happy moments, its all a long boring road. Unless of course you get a precursor, which is basically like getting something handed to you on a silver platter based entirely on RNG, in which you sell to BUY the boring stuff to make the one thing you actually wanted. And I do play something else. I play PvP, I don’t pve in this game because it’s a joke. Equip all your zerker gear, go nuts mindlessly dodging what little 1 shots you can, rez one another a bunch and #win.

100% what ron says, I too play other things such as solitair, BigFish and Mahjong until dailies reset then I do them and all the Meta bosses hoping for that one drop that will reward me for the effort and time I have spent in playing GW2 while I wait for the release of ESO that will be added to my gaming regimine, let all the fanbois play and act as if all is fine in this great game, they already got theirs, one day RNG might smile upon us lowly nubs, then I can retire.

Exxcalibur.6203:

Players will also gravitate towards these kinds of simple mindless loot opportunities when they are in the game.

Unfortunately, this leaves many other engaging group events in the world untouched and other zones desolate.

While I applaud the players resilience for staying with such a dull manifestation of the game, I feel Anet should take an approach akin to paternalism* and remove the Queens zerg, in order to force change and diversity.

This may upset some players, who feel they should be able to play how they want to play, but sometimes the world demands an authority or organization to guide us gently towards perfection.

Who is with me?

NB:

**"Paternalism" comes from the Latin pater, meaning to act like a father, or to treat another person like a child, limiting some person or group’s liberty or autonomy for their own good.

Just because YOUR liberal ideology compels you to force your play-style on others, does not mean that the Queensdale gig is a bad thing. For those of us who have been here since launch and do not WANT to level through all of those crappy mindless events for the 8th time, this is a relaxing, albeit slow alternative that you can pop in to and out of with ease. The game needs things like this, and less people who would see things ruined for others because they do not personally see the value in them.

And the notion that YOUR advice is “fatherly” is laughable. Please do not ever try to impress your warped ideology me or my children.

Teenwolf.9174:

Just because YOUR liberal ideology compels you to force your play-style on others, does not mean that the Queensdale gig is a bad thing. For those of us who have been here since launch and do not WANT to level through all of those crappy mindless events for the 8th time, this is a relaxing, albeit slow alternative that you can pop in to and out of with ease. The game needs things like this, and less people who would see things ruined for others because they do not personally see the value in them.

And the notion that YOUR advice is “fatherly” is laughable. Please do not ever try to impress your warped ideology me or my children.

Just a quick aside (don’t want to derail the thread over semantics): “Liberal” has a denotative and connotative meaning. Here in the US, the connotative meaning refers specifically to “left wing” politics and is used completely independently from the actual meaning of the word (i.e. one who believes in liberty). Ergo, a person could be completely opposed to liberty and still be called a “liberal” in the US because we connotatively use the word without respect to its denotative meaning.

While most US readers will understand your usage of the term to refer to the American left’s desire for a highly uniform economic structure (i.e. a “commune”) where equality of result is enforced, foreign readers may be confused by your use of the word “liberal”.

I think a better word would be “authoritarian”, since such a program would require the suppression of individual liberty at the hands of an ultimate authority in order to achieve the OP’s stated goal of a uniform economic system.

WTF, liberal ideology. I’m liberal and that’s not my ideology. :|

Re: no reason to be in level 80 areas: They did bork Orr (the zone was not even complete at launch), but FGS arguably is one and people are there, too.

Right now a lot of us have completed a big chunk of the game’s content and are waiting for more substantial stuff to be released (since this is still a vanilla release with only one year’s stuff). So training allows 80s to still work toward grindy goals. It also lets lower levels earn monies, XP, karma, gear and mats to put toward gearing and crafting.

I like the comment about letting newbies and max-level characters both work toward the same goal. That WAS one of ANet’s original goals in world design, and hopefully they’ve noticed.

There are three big reasons, btw, why level 80s still go to Queensdale instead of FGS: 1) Most QD champs are tied to events, which count for dailies/monthlies; 2) this also counts for karma. 3) Also, it’s more forgiving than FGS, which loads much slower because of the snow and water. So people on slower machines can’t load fast enough to kill the champs, which die much faster anyway because they are not event champs.

Xae Isareth.1364:

There’s not much Anet can do without annoying a lot of players.

I suppose if you really want to get rid of the champ trains, you can establish some sort of guild which constantly griefs the train by killing champions out of order…..

But then… THEY would be the train… opposite of the “real” train…. a real conundrum you have there.

Morrigan.2809:

Zhaneel.9208:

Morrigan.2809:

Zhaneel.9208:

There are five newbie zones to level up in. New players can just use the Asura gates in LA to travel to any of the other four zones if the Champ train in Queensdale really bothers them that much.

Personally I don’t see a problem with it. It’s simple, fun and rewarding. It’s natural that players would immediately seek out more efficient means of attaining gold or achievements and this happens in any game. I enjoyed the interaction you get with other players too.

If level 80 content were a little more fleshed out, you wouldn’t see trains like this occurring in low level zones at all.

real new players don’t know about the asura gates or that they can just travel to other zones- why would they?
What if they roll a human?

Queensdale train is just too stacked- it counts for dailies, monthlies, karma, events and the champs are on short re-spawn and trigger able.

Go to any other map except FS and you will find it filled with champs running around unmolested.

All you have to do is visit your race’s city. It’s right next to your spawning point after the intro battle. How hard can that be?

New players still miss it and they tend to follow their personal story until it takes them to LA when they join an Order.
I have lost count of how many times I have shown Asura gates to people

I was terrified of the Asura gates and the “swimmy” gates between zones when I first started. I laugh about it now, but I saw them and thought “uuuhhh… I am NOT going in there – I have no idea what’s on the other side!” LOL I’m sure it was about a month before I left Queensdale, after my kids told me what they were. Please don’t all laugh at once :p

Thats funny you found the gates intimidating ozman, to my own shame I hurt myself very early on by being afraid of the Mystic Forge. I thought if I experimented with it I would be wasting resources so it took a few months before I looked into it more. To my loss, I missed out on the Mystic Forge Conduits which ticks me off no end we can’t get those anymore and its been way too long now since they were removed. Wish they would just drop it in the gem store already.

Speaking to the issue of champ trains, why not just introduce champions in more zones so players have options to champ farm in more than two areas? I think that might quiet much of the criticism about Queensdale and allow people to farm in areas where it is less likely someone else will cap the champion ahead of you thus reducing rage quits appropriately.

They’ll want to tie them to events if they do, otherwise there is no reason to switch from either zone.

A lot of exaggeration going on in yet another thread about the champ trains in Queensdale. For at least the last month I have not seen an argument get nasty on Tarnished Coast over people hitting champions out of order. From reading thus thread people would think Queensdale is a non-stop argument. For the most part when a champion gets hit out of order the zerg just moves on because they are used to it by now. The only problem causing I have seen was when someone or a small group intentionally messes with the order and they are the ones taunting in chat. Even then most everyone just ignores them and goes to the next event and the antagonists get bored.

As for impressions on new players, I have seen many new players receive more help and attention because Queesndale is populated and people are there to answer their questions, help with skill points and so forth. So hey, let’s nerf the map and make it more vacant right? New players talking to themselves in /map gives a good impression too right? If you are so worried about new players go to starter zones and look for people to help and give them that good first impression.

Please stop with all these exagerations about how new players think the champ train is the game and get bored and quit. Stop making up storys about excessive map chat grieving because as I have seen the map chat does a great job policing itself. You may not like champ farming because you think there are better ways to play the game and that’s fine. Just stop worrying about how others play. You will enjoy the game much more that way.

Oh and if you are on the end/nerf champ side then that should revoke your license to complain ever should some aspect of the game you enjoy get the rewards nerfed. Asking for reward seyestems to get nerfed is a slippery slope. Think about it..

Leamas.5803:

The problem was that GW2 was heavily marketed specifically to a casual friendly crowd and after the November 2012 loot nerfs it was no long casual friendly…not by a long shot. You had to grind incessantly to even get lowbie green gear. I know at least one person who demanded a refund under the pretense of false advertizing and got his money back.

For anyone who didn’t play at that time, it’s hard to comprehend just how bad the loot drops had become and how hard ANet was trying to make it impossible to make any gold in game (Under the false pretense of botters), while at the same time prices in the TP were skyrocketing between normal inflation and the lack of bots supplying stock.

Headstart player here. I remember the November issues vividly, as they were the reason why I quit in January ‘13. It was absolutely terrible. I remember the mahoosive loot issue thread too, thousands of posts before we even got a response, and the response was "Well, we aren’t seeing a problem. Keep giving us info." It was a really bad time in the life of the game, didn’t help that it came at the same time as the Karka fiasco. As far as the horrendousness of loot availability goes, it was such a bad grind to get 100g for my human t3 that it burned me out to the point of quitting the game. I didn’t come back for 7 or so months, and I only stayed because I noticed things had changed a lot, and loot was much easier to come by. I can actually make money now by doing things I enjoy, not grinding out mats for sale or some equally mindless thing. As a final note, I can attest to the champions not dropping loot thing. Pretty much no one did champs or world events, there was no point. I’d do dragons multiple times a day and get maybe one rare.

Teenwolf.9174:

Exxcalibur.6203:

Players will also gravitate towards these kinds of simple mindless loot opportunities when they are in the game.

Unfortunately, this leaves many other engaging group events in the world untouched and other zones desolate.

While I applaud the players resilience for staying with such a dull manifestation of the game, I feel Anet should take an approach akin to paternalism* and remove the Queens zerg, in order to force change and diversity.

This may upset some players, who feel they should be able to play how they want to play, but sometimes the world demands an authority or organization to guide us gently towards perfection.

Who is with me?

NB:

**"Paternalism" comes from the Latin pater, meaning to act like a father, or to treat another person like a child, limiting some person or group’s liberty or autonomy for their own good.

Just because YOUR liberal ideology compels you to force your play-style on others, does not mean that the Queensdale gig is a bad thing. For those of us who have been here since launch and do not WANT to level through all of those crappy mindless events for the 8th time, this is a relaxing, albeit slow alternative that you can pop in to and out of with ease. The game needs things like this, and less people who would see things ruined for others because they do not personally see the value in them.

And the notion that YOUR advice is “fatherly” is laughable. Please do not ever try to impress your warped ideology me or my children.

+1 for that!!!

JustTrogdor.7892:

A lot of exaggeration going on in yet another thread about the champ trains in Queensdale. For at least the last month I have not seen an argument get nasty on Tarnished Coast over people hitting champions out of order. From reading thus thread people would think Queensdale is a non-stop argument. For the most part when a champion gets hit out of order the zerg just moves on because they are used to it by now. The only problem causing I have seen was when someone or a small group intentionally messes with the order and they are the ones taunting in chat. Even then most everyone just ignores them and goes to the next event and the antagonists get bored.

As for impressions on new players, I have seen many new players receive more help and attention because Queesndale is populated and people are there to answer their questions, help with skill points and so forth. So hey, let’s nerf the map and make it more vacant right? New players talking to themselves in /map gives a good impression too right? If you are so worried about new players go to starter zones and look for people to help and give them that good first impression.

Please stop with all these exagerations about how new players think the champ train is the game and get bored and quit. Stop making up storys about excessive map chat grieving because as I have seen the map chat does a great job policing itself. You may not like champ farming because you think there are better ways to play the game and that’s fine. Just stop worrying about how others play. You will enjoy the game much more that way.

Oh and if you are on the end/nerf champ side then that should revoke your license to complain ever should some aspect of the game you enjoy get the rewards nerfed. Asking for reward seyestems to get nerfed is a slippery slope. Think about it..

And another +1!!!!
So tired of players that think they own the game and the devs should change/nerf parts of the game. You want the trains to end? Suggest that a new map(lvl 60-80) with new events etc be added to the game instead mediocre content every couple of weeks.

DONT KILL THE CHAMP TRAINS! HOW ELSE AM I SUPPOSED TO GRIND FOR MY LEGENDARY!?

I don’t like the champion trains. I find they bring out the worst in the people and the community, because the already prevalent minmaxing / it’s all about the best gold/h ratio crowd just gets bigger this way.

And lately more of the new players, which were even advertised in an ingame mail, one should not forget, seem to think the champion farming is THE selling point of the game. And when they reach another zone they ask “genderran train?”/“kessex train?” and when they’re told there isn’t any, they just go back to Queensdale.

The game was already dead in any zone save 1-15 ones and Frostgorge, ignoring the occasional population spike when a world boss was around.

The champion update that introduced the loot bags only made it worse. Now there’s really no reason to go anywhere except for Queensdale or later Frostgorge. You can drop anything anywhere, which is a great idea on paper, because it encourages exploring and frees you from grinding certain zones for certain loot (ignoring harvesting nodes here). But it also means that people can stay in the starter zone forever and get everything there.
You may as well scrap every map zone for 15-70 and remove the world bosses from there to Queensdale, it wouldn’t really change much.

And yes, it is a problem, because this being an MMO means you want or need to interact with other people. Personally, I’m tired of partying up with strangers only to have them ask me whether I know “which events to farm” or “what the fastest way to get gold/xp” is and then leave my party when I express that I don’t have a desire to farm or grind for gold but instead just play the game. And having such things for the players from the very start only reinforces the impression that it’s all about the minmaxing and grinding like in their other MMOs which shalt not be named.

And the argument that Queensdale has gotten a lot more newbie friendly this way, I don’t buy it. Queensdale was always the most populated area, by far. You never had problems finding anyone, let alone someone to help you.

To conclude my rant, I don’t ask for the trains to be removed, because apparently the mindnumbingly excruciating task of running in circles seems to be “fun” and “relaxing” to some people, which is unfathomable to me; but let them do it, if they want.
However, I’m convinced it’s a piece that will make the game much more shortlived, as it cuts short one of the key aspects – the beautiful and huge world, and reduces it to the average joe grindfest you have in every other MMO out there.

They just need to make more long chain events and trains in other zones.

Truth is, after the repeated Cursed Shore Nerfs before the train started, there was probably zero reason to play open world beyond leveling because there was nothing to be gained from it— oh good a rare after 15 minute world boss! And the only reason people are like that is because crap was nerfed elsewhere— so it’s pretty laughable to think that making the problem worse will solve the problem.

Bring back Cursed Shore or something… boost the loot greatly and revert it back to the old difficulty.

Ikaros.5730:

Instead of killing the champ train why dont we make activities in other maps more rewarding? Im kinda tiered of this “i dont like it so nerf the kitten out of it” attitude that is in all MMO’s why dont we do the reverse and bring everything up instead of bring one thing down?

Most of us that use that thing between our ears are tired of this seemingly endless dribble of “I don’t like it so nerf the kitten out of it!” because of nimrods that are mentally ill with parentlism.

Best way to kill a champ train is to make the rest of the events (meaning all events everywhere on every map) more profitable. People who call for things like champ trains to be nerfed need to be banned, at least for two weeks, because obviously they have a mental condition (parentalism) that needs to be cured.

Teenwolf.9174:

Just because YOUR liberal ideology compels you to force your play-style on others, does not mean that the Queensdale gig is a bad thing. For those of us who have been here since launch and do not WANT to level through all of those crappy mindless events for the 8th time, this is a relaxing, albeit slow alternative that you can pop in to and out of with ease. The game needs things like this, and less people who would see things ruined for others because they do not personally see the value in them.

And the notion that YOUR advice is “fatherly” is laughable. Please do not ever try to impress your warped ideology me or my children.

I had to laugh.

You clearly have no idea what these terms mean.

I am afraid I didn’t make Paternalism up – is what it is.

And a ‘liberal’ ideology? O lordy…

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality. The tolerance and acceptance of diversity you advocate is ‘liberal’.

Perhaps you are on a journey of discovery to finding you actually vote ‘left’. If so, Congratulations.

:)