Guild Wars 2

The biggest issue with the champ train is the image it gives to newbies.

1. The zerg can get rude and nasty if a champ is killed too early. That is NO ONE’S fault. The champ is there for anyone to kill at any time. It’s not dictated to belong to the zerg. And what about people who like to solo champs, like me? If zergs want to claim ownership with “don’t like it, tough. Don’t play it.” Then I’m gonna answer “Fair dibs. I kill it early. Don’t like it, tough. Don’t play it.”

2. To new players, it makes GW2 look like a ‘zergfest’ game when there is so much more to offer. This is just grinding for drops. Isn’t this game supposed to denounce grinding?

3. It teaches players that zerging is the only viable option to this game. That brings them to WvW and only WvW. (And to people who think WvW zerg is the only endgame, you’re missing a lot of good stuff). And before anyone tries to counter me, I like WvW. But I also like roaming, soloing, dungeons, meta events, fractals, PvP, world completion, etc. Compared to all that, zerging is BORING.

No one complains about the champ train in Frostgorge when it’s practically the same thing. But that’s a level 80 map. It doesn’t interfere with newbies. We don’t have champ trains in Metrica Province, Caledon Forest, or any of the other starting areas.

I thought this particular thread died…Who brought it back to life?

Fact 1: The trains aren’t going anywhere until the risk vs rewards in other zones matches what can be gained in Q’dale and Frostgorge.

Fact 2: There will be those who defend it and those who want it killed.

Fact 3: New players are NOT stupid. Assuming they are incapable of learning what the trains are is elitist and rude. I am sure they can figure out that the champ train is not “normal” play and that it is independent of what is needed to complete the map. (Yeah, it’s true. You can complete the map without ever killing or even needing to kill one of the champs on the train.)

So, how about we all take a chill pill and let everyone be?

This thread is relevant because of the influx of new players due to the current discount on the game purchase.

I agree that starting areas should have incentives for experienced players to come back, but not in order to do robotic farming.

What kind of idiots do you take new players for? It’s like a general assumption that all new players are brand new to the internet and gaming all together? I don’t argue that there are some who is completely brand new, but farming of one thing or another is available everywhere, jerks of the trade is in every MMO. If they aren’t bashing these newbs in the starting area they’ll bash them somewhere else. If you want to be helpful, great, be helpful guide them when they ask a question and don’t let those jerks be the only voice they hear. But let’s not pre-emptively decide for the larger population what they should and shouldn’t do with their time.

PvE zergs like the Queensdale train (and the whole “save the world from the poison tower” thingy) are actually the most fun I’ve had in this game. Which maybe explains why I don’t play the game much anymore.

Keiel.7489:

What kind of idiots do you take new players for? It’s like a general assumption that all new players are brand new to the internet and gaming all together? I don’t argue that there are some who is completely brand new, but farming of one thing or another is available everywhere, jerks of the trade is in every MMO. If they aren’t bashing these newbs in the starting area they’ll bash them somewhere else. If you want to be helpful, great, be helpful guide them when they ask a question and don’t let those jerks be the only voice they hear. But let’s not pre-emptively decide for the larger population what they should and shouldn’t do with their time.

I’m not sure that anybody would take new players as idiots. They just don’t know what’s up.

First impressions are important. If your first impression of interacting with players in a game is numerous negative exchanges are you more or less likely to want to interact with people out in the world?

Exxcalibur.6203:

but sometimes the world demands an authority or organization to guide us gently towards perfection.

I’m pretty sure the guys who started world war 2 (name was censored) said something similair…

There is a reason why queensdale is know known as dramaqueens dale amongst my current guild

declan.3968:

What ANet needs to do is to make the other zones equally profitable so players can split between multiple zones and Champ farm.

The idea is sound, yet, I doubt it can be done. There will always be one farm that is that tiny bit more effective (either in speed or in amount of foes killed and thus in the amount of loot per minute). And people will flock to that one.

I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

People in Frostgorge are horrible on my server.

I was just mapping Frostgorge the other day on my necro and I ran into the svarnir camp behind the Claw spawn- I was fighting for my life and I saw a player in the distance coming closer- I think yay!
When I went down he ran past me with out a glance and a couple of seconds he ran over my, by then dead body, with out a backward glance.

That was when I remembered why I never set foot on that map.

you can say what you want about Queensdale train but this will never ever happen on that map

Morrigan.2809:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

People in Frostgorge are horrible on my server.

I was just mapping Frostgorge the other day on my necro and I ran into the svarnir camp behind the Claw spawn- I was fighting for my life and I saw a player in the distance coming closer- I think yay!
When I went down he ran past me with out a glance and a couple of seconds he ran over my, by then dead body, with out a backward glance.

That was when I remembered why I never set foot on that map.

you can say what you want about Queensdale train but this will never ever happen on that map

I’ve given up hope on being ressed by randoms in open world. But when I come across downed people in open world I usually res them unless I hate them or if they’re a thief (unless I’m doing world bosses then I just res everyone I can).

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Morrigan.2809:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

People in Frostgorge are horrible on my server.

I was just mapping Frostgorge the other day on my necro and I ran into the svarnir camp behind the Claw spawn- I was fighting for my life and I saw a player in the distance coming closer- I think yay!
When I went down he ran past me with out a glance and a couple of seconds he ran over my, by then dead body, with out a backward glance.

That was when I remembered why I never set foot on that map.

you can say what you want about Queensdale train but this will never ever happen on that map

I’ve given up hope on being ressed by randoms in open world. But when I come across downed people in open world I usually res them unless I hate them or if they’re a thief (unless I’m doing world bosses then I just res everyone I can).

I have never seen this anywhere except in Frostgorge- it was that way at launch too.
Anywhere- no matter how out of the way- if you are going down and there are people nearby they will res.
I will run halfway across a map myself just to res a player

Morrigan.2809:

I have never seen this anywhere except in Frostgorge- it was that way at launch too.
Anywhere- no matter how out of the way- if you are going down and there are people nearby they will res.
I will run halfway across a map myself just to res a player

Do you play on yaks bend? Cause when ever I’m in frostgorge all be it for maybe 30 minutes at most I’m usually hanging out near the troll pit.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Morrigan.2809:

I have never seen this anywhere except in Frostgorge- it was that way at launch too.
Anywhere- no matter how out of the way- if you are going down and there are people nearby they will res.
I will run halfway across a map myself just to res a player

Do you play on yaks bend? Cause when ever I’m in frostgorge all be it for maybe 30 minutes at most I’m usually hanging out near the troll pit.

no I am on Gunnar’s Hold and for the most we have a wonderful server, I just don’t go into Frostgorge at all anymore unless it is to get Claw.

Last night a friend says to me let’s do a Temple run- I just thought- oh ok couple of people start of at Balth see how it goes.
Since I often hear it mentioned here that no one does Temples and Orr is deserted, I expected maybe 20 people

my mind was blown now this is a zerg-
Queensdale train has nothing on this, sadly after Balthazar I gave up because my pc was a slag heap..

Third pic is earlier this week at Hydra Queen

While Id like to see champ trains dead..at least in non lvl 80 zones, I am not sure what arenanet can do.

The core of their game is open world content and playing with other people regardless if they are in your party or not. Even down to the skills you use impact those around you.

So when the engine of your game is cornerstoned around open world content, and you have a lot of people doing out, how can you break up the trains, how can you make the champ fights or boss fights interesting and difficult enough where you aren’t just mashing one button…how can you make the fights so that the support guardian or support ele actually FEELS like he/she is contributing to the overall health and success of the group? How do you see the fruits of your labor as a support char? Because if you dont see it, might as well go zerk like everyone else.

So how do they break it all up, promite build diversity in open world content, and make it so that 20-50 people can participate in a non mindless non #1 mashing fashion?

Have to say why are the people complaining…the ones who do seem to think they are the ones who should go to queensdale and who should not …I ask how does it impact on you the ones who go there . I joined the train yesterday and there were 4 new guys not alts new ones who were praising the train.

So its server problem I think as on the train we arrived to see Oak dead so what , no drama everyone just mapped onto the next.
I seem to think and its a personal opinion that complainers are just using the new ones to the game who join gw2 as an excuse to satisfy there agenda nothing else.

I don’t get the complaints. People are playing the game as they see fit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Why do you want to stop other people playing the game?

As for people being abusive; That’s a separate matter entirely and one that you should report using the in game tools.

Highlander.9860:

Have to say why are the people complaining…the ones who do seem to think they are the ones who should go to queensdale and who should not …I ask how does it impact on you the ones who go there . I joined the train yesterday and there were 4 new guys not alts new ones who were praising the train.

So its server problem I think as on the train we arrived to see Oak dead so what , no drama everyone just mapped onto the next.
I seem to think and its a personal opinion that complainers are just using the new ones to the game who join gw2 as an excuse to satisfy there agenda nothing else.

Content like queensdale champ trains, and LS zergs in one zone take people away from other parts of the game like the other dozen or so zones with tons of dynamic events and gorgeous content, WvW, dungeon crawling, etc.

The champ trains aren’t profitable from a coin prespective, just a good eay way to get karma. But combined with LS updates/zergs, it really takes people away from other parts of the game. This is something I do not approve and why I would like to see these trains go.

Lexandro.1456:

I don’t get the complaints. People are playing the game as they see fit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Why do you want to stop other people playing the game?

As for people being abusive; That’s a separate matter entirely and one that you should report using the in game tools.

This is the typical argument in this forum. “If you dont like it dont do it”. “Not everyone thinks like that”. “Not everyone finds that fun”. How come GW2 is the only game where people have this democratic mindset that everyone should enjoy the game the way they want to, and all is well, etc…. Well, if this is indeed the mindest of the masses, then I ask the following…

The way I wanted to play the game was quickly get BiS gear and then do whatever I wanted…open world, wvw, map completion, dungeons, jumping puzzles, etc. With ascended gear now in the game, I no longer have BiS gear. How come I am forced to grind this stuff out now, instead of playing the game that I want to? Part of the way I wanted to play the game was to have BiS gear AND THEN do whatever I wanted in game. I had BiS gear and now I don’t. Now, in order to play the way I WANT TO, I have to grind and farm out ascended gear.

So tell me, how come I cannot play the game I want to play?

EDIT: If you are going to jump on me and say “noone is forcing you to get ascended gear”…re-read what I wrote please. The way I wanted to play the game was to get BiS gear(which I had until ascended gear introduced), and then enjoy the rest of the game. It is how I wanted to enjoy the game, because..you know, we were told “play the game how you want to play it”? Well, I was. BiS gear and then enjoying all. Now, I don’t have BiS gear, and have stopped enjoying the game to farm out the NEW BiS gear…see where it changed?

Want and need are separate things. You don’t need BiS gear, you just want it. And its entirely irrelevant to the discussion which is the champ trains. If people want to group up and roll around the map taking out “boss” creatures that’s none of your concern. If however they are abusive towards others then they should be reported for doing so.

Everything else is a rather pointless attempt at nerfing champs by players who somehow feel aggrieved that others are “having fun” by farming. And yes I sometimes join champ trains for mats and gear.

Lexandro.1456:

Want and need are separate things. You don’t need BiS gear, you just want it. And its entirely irrelevant to the discussion which is the champ trains. If people want to group up and roll around the map taking out “boss” creatures that’s none of your concern. If however they are abusive towards others then they should be reported for doing so.

Everything else is a rather pointless attempt at nerfing champs by players who somehow feel aggrieved that others are “having fun” by farming. And yes I sometimes join champ trains for mats and gear.

I was simply extending your argument of “well if people want to play that way, who are you to say otherwise”. I wanted to play one way, but cant anymore. Gotta grind up first.

True, want and need are different. People want to run champ trains, but don’t need to. So by this, I vote that arenanet kill the champ train some how. They can acquire karma and whatnot from any other area of the game…maybe spread out into other zones so we see more people in more zones.

Again why kill the champ train specifically? Ive yet to see a clear reason for doing so other than people don’t like it. As I said people being abusive is a separate issue not specific to champ trains.

What issues specific to champ farming are there that warrants a nerf?

Travis the Terrible.4739:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

I maybe agree with this, though I think I’ve seen one “fight” amongst ONE person from the train and ONE person that intentially derailed it in Queensdale. I’ve been doing Frostgorge a lot since I’m working on my first legendary weapon. I’ve met some great people that have been added to my friends list. We chat through the whole train and I do find it fun and fairly relaxing.

TBH, for me it’s much, much more frustrating to need something and have it seemingly take forever to get it. I bring up Orr a lot because… well… it’s HORRIBLE for loot. I’m level 80. I would expect a level 80 zone to give me the things I need for my “end game”, yet it does not. I can kill 20 mobs and get nothing… literally nothing. I log off feeling frustrated and mad at the game. At least the champ train gives me something for my time. I want to play the game, not feel like I’m working for nothing. I feel that the champ train lets me play, interact with others, and feel rewarded for my time, all at once.

Please, this horse has been beaten to death over and over and over. Just let people play how they like and ignore them if you’re not interested in joining them. Report ANYONE who is abusive, then block them. Problem solved. Wow, that was easy.

Lexandro.1456:

What issues specific to champ farming are there that warrants a nerf?

Yes, good question.

Lexandro.1456:

Again why kill the champ train specifically? Ive yet to see a clear reason for doing so other than people don’t like it. As I said people being abusive is a separate issue not specific to champ trains.

What issues specific to champ farming are there that warrants a nerf?

This isn’t answering your question, but why introduce ascended gear? What issue specific to exotic gear that warranted ascended gear?

Same sorts of questions can be applied to many of the decisions arenanet makes.

Specifically to the champ trains: Ive added my two cents as to why. Break apart the mindless zerging and have people go out into the game and play in other zones. There are something like 10 zones and 8 of them are abandoned other than people leveling up and map completing. Reduce the reason for zerging, and encourage people to play together in groups, not zergs.

Why you ask? Because Im sick of seeing failed events in awsome zones like Fireheart rise, or Iron marches. Then I zone into Queensdale, and see 50 level 80s blob to little puny champs for some karma and dust.

Im speaking to the overall health and longevity of the game here. If the pro-champ train, pro-open world zerg camp is Ok with guild wars 2 being known for zergs in open world, rather than completing events with groups of people(group != zerg), then I’ll see you guys at the next major MMO launch

Adding to my previous post..

Let me ask the pro-zerg pro champ train camp:

What is one thing all MMOs have in common:(Theres more than one answer, but Im looking for one specifically).

Correct answer that Im looking for: Non level-cap zones are empty, dead, abandoned by both players and developers. GW2, many thought, would be the end of that phenomena. Players playing in multitude of zones because it was enjoyable and profitable at the same time.

Instead, queensdale zerg and LS updates fosters the zerg mentality to clump us together in one or two zones.

Gw2 could be the unique MMO where more than a small handful of zones have people in them. It could be the MMO that stands out where you can say “Well, there are max level characters completing events in a lvl 40 zone” whereas the WoW players and the other MMO games cannot say the same.

The entire game is essentially “zerg” content, why should QD be any different?

WvW – zerg stacking
PvE events – zerg stacking
Dungeons – stacking (mini-zerg)

Events failing in other zones is not because of champ farming. Its because many of those events are time consuming with little to no reward, or have broken content. I for instance cant stand Char characters, and so I dont do Ascalon stuffs because I dont want to. Added to this though is that the XP curve is horribad for leveling through normal roaming, and many players like myself have multiple characters. Going through content that you find boring multiple times just for XP is just as bad as doing champ farms non stop for mats if that bores you.

GW2 has been known for zergs for months now. Its not going to change any time soon, particularly when devs keep adding zerg content.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

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I prefer the Frostgorge zerg over Queensdale any day anyway, as you are standing around doing nothing or running long ends from a wp to the champ.

People in frostgorge train are friendlier from personal experiences.

I like frostgorge, but it runs too fast for my taste.

Lexandro.1456:

The entire game is essentially “zerg” content, why should QD be any different?

WvW – zerg stacking
PvE events – zerg stacking
Dungeons – stacking (mini-zerg)

Events failing in other zones is not because of champ farming. Its because many of those events are time consuming with little to no reward, or have broken content. I for instance cant stand Char characters, and so I dont do Ascalon stuffs because I dont want to. Added to this though is that the XP curve is horribad for leveling through normal roaming, and many players like myself have multiple characters. Going through content that you find boring multiple times just for XP is just as bad as doing champ farms non stop for mats if that bores you.

GW2 has been known for zergs for months now. Its not going to change any time soon, particularly when devs keep adding zerg content.

I disagree. You cannot win WvW by simply zerging. A group of 10 players can take a tower. While a zerg focuses on garry. The group of 10 isnt a zerg. 5 man dungeons, stacking is not a zerg. Queensdale champ train , FSG champ train, and 30+ man blobs in WvW are zergs.

I am curious then, why people do run the champ train. Do they find the fights interesting? Or challenging? Or are they just doing it for rewards? If for just rewards, to what end? Ascended gear? To what end? Do you do high level fractals?

So basically, people run these champ trains for resource and coin gain, not because they are FUN. Am i right? So is the game another job for you? What happened to playing a video game for fun?

Lexandro.1456:

I don’t get the complaints. People are playing the game as they see fit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Why do you want to stop other people playing the game?

As for people being abusive; That’s a separate matter entirely and one that you should report using the in game tools.

They also did when the old CoF runs were there. Same as all other repetitive money-making schemes.

People were playing as they saw fit, but they changed things anyways.

Why? Because sitting in the same spot repeating the same thing over and over should never be more rewarding than doing different things in different places.
Why? Because otherwise, people stick o one spot, the rest of the world gets empty, and those wanting to do different things have a much, much harder time.

That’s why champions need flags like anything else with a guaranteed reward.
Those who kill 50 champions still get their rewards, but they would need to kill 50 different ones instead the same 5 10 times.
Those who want to go in a train still can do that, but they just have to organize themselves a bit better.

But in exchange, those who want to kill a champion in other maps will be more likely to find help.

Who said fun and rewards were not compatible? I find the FGS train fun, and rewarding. I dont find slogging through 30+ ai, and some veterans for a 2 silver and wee bit of xp and karma that fun just because “its a group event”.

And yes you can win WvW by simply zerging everything in sight. Overnight zerg trains are what wins most of the WvW match ups from what Ive seen happen in WvW. 10 men can TRY to take a keep but two peeps on siege weapons can take them out and/or keep them at bay long enough for the zerg to turn up and smash them.

In any case, its still no reason to nerf or destroy content that people are playing, just because you and some others do not like them doing it.

Still not heard a good reason to nerf QD champ train. Convince me otherwise with a well reasoned argument that does not revolve around " I dont like it", or “abuse”.

Instead of “nerfing” champ trains, mayhaps it should be considered that other content needs “buffed” for rewards instead.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Lexandro.1456:

I don’t get the complaints. People are playing the game as they see fit. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. Why do you want to stop other people playing the game?

As for people being abusive; That’s a separate matter entirely and one that you should report using the in game tools.

They also did when the old CoF runs were there. Same as all other repetitive money-making schemes.

People were playing as they saw fit, but they changed things anyways.

Why? Because sitting in the same spot repeating the same thing over and over should never be more rewarding than doing different things in different places.
Why? Because otherwise, people stick o one spot, the rest of the world gets empty, and those wanting to do different things have a much, much harder time.

That’s why champions need flags like anything else with a guaranteed reward.
Those who kill 50 champions still get their rewards, but they would need to kill 50 different ones instead the same 5 10 times.
Those who want to go in a train still can do that, but they just have to organize themselves a bit better.

But in exchange, those who want to kill a champion in other maps will be more likely to find help.

This. I couldn’t put my thoughts into words like this for some reason. This is why the champ train must go, or at least the easy peasy route of it all.

Or simple: randomize spawn timers. Why are they on set timers? Arenanet couldn’t see this coming that we would farm them in sequence once they improved their loot a little? This was not forseen by the developer? Or whats worse is that it was forseen and intended. Which means they prefer mindless #1 mashing over skill and strategic play. I’ll dump this quote here “Hey, I swung a sword, I swung a sword…hey I swung a sword again”. Thats all you do in the QD champ train. Dont need to use any other abilities. Just auto attack.

This type of behavior should not be as rewarding as a group of 3 or 3 people completing a DE in Fireheart rise where they need to work together a bit more, and utilize some more skills.

@ Cesmode- people do play in other maps –
I know because I do so most of the time, there are a surprising amount of people just running around and doing events for kicks.

The thing is currently in the game you can do this- as a break from a goal or forget about ever reaching that goal because it is not profitable at all.
Except for mats- you get a lot of gold for maps from out of the way maps.

DE’s need an improvement in reward but that is not the fault of Champ trains- Champ trains are the result of changes in the game in terms of resources that people either want or need- it is complex but it is very real.

I don’t have a problem with champ trains, as I said as long as people remain civil- I do kind of have a problem with it in a starter zone because it is not very good for new players. they learn bad habits.

It is also their zone and you get some nasty people if they have been running the train for hours

That said- on our server, except for that one guy that freaked his pip because people wanted to do Behemoth (he was a new Player btw), the Champ train is mostly very civil and squashes bad behavior immediately.

My suggestion would be to add more farms in non starter zones- if they want to add something like Ascended gear- which lets face it, is a horrible grind- add farms.
Just keep it out of starter zones.
So if people want to farm let them- also increase DE rewards by a lot for people who like to do those.

Lexandro.1456:

Who said fun and rewards were not compatible? I find the FGS train fun, and rewarding. I dont find slogging through 30+ ai, and some veterans for a 2 silver and wee bit of xp and karma that fun just because “its a group event”.

And yes you can win WvW by simply zerging everything in sight. Overnight zerg trains are what wins most of the WvW match ups from what Ive seen happen in WvW. 10 men can TRY to take a keep but two peeps on siege weapons can take them out and/or keep them at bay long enough for the zerg to turn up and smash them.

In any case, its still no reason to nerf or destroy content that people are playing, just because you and some others do not like them doing it.

Still not heard a good reason to nerf QD champ train. Convince me otherwise with a well reasoned argument that does not revolve around " I dont like it", or “abuse”.

So…#1 mashing is fun for you? If all the pro- champ train people think alike, then you guys have set a LOW bar for ‘fun’ in video games.

And incorrect again…Coverage is what wins WvW. 24 hour complete map coverage. One champ train cannot be in all spots at all times on all 4 maps. A group of 10 or 12 taking camps and towers, a group of 30 or 40 taking keeps and garrys, 24 hour coverage, on a good amount of the maps. A handful of large blobs can’t do it all. By saying zergs win WvW tells me you don’t play enough. And I think arenanet even said that the more optimal way of playing WvW is not to zerg around but to have multiple groups running and putting swords on different points of the map forcing the other servers to spread their attention. This is what most servers do anyways.

Morrigan.2809:

@ Cesmode- people do play in other maps –
I know because I do so most of the time, there are a surprising amount of people just running around and doing events for kicks.

I don’t see it. Ive guested on 7 or 8 servers in the last month(SoS, DB, FA, SBI, Yaks, Ehmery…to name a few). Im lucky if I run into two or 3 players in total on a map. Thats not what I would call a living populated world.

i think the game need this group activity. together with other folks, not too big reward, no brain job. just a little relax.

cesmode.4257:

Morrigan.2809:

@ Cesmode- people do play in other maps –
I know because I do so most of the time, there are a surprising amount of people just running around and doing events for kicks.

I don’t see it. Ive guested on 7 or 8 servers in the last month(SoS, DB, FA, SBI, Yaks, Ehmery…to name a few). Im lucky if I run into two or 3 players in total on a map. Thats not what I would call a living populated world.

I play on Gunnar’s Hold- there are always people about in the most unlikely places- my husband jokes with me that within 5min of logging on in a hole, I get a party request.

I do agree that there should be more reason to play in the open world- but from where I am there are people already, it just doesn’t pay the bills.

Except for Harathi Hinderlands- that map is empty- but I hate it, so I can’t blame people- some really cool events around the edges but the chain in the North sucks socks.

cesmode.4257:

Lexandro.1456:

Who said fun and rewards were not compatible? I find the FGS train fun, and rewarding. I dont find slogging through 30+ ai, and some veterans for a 2 silver and wee bit of xp and karma that fun just because “its a group event”.

And yes you can win WvW by simply zerging everything in sight. Overnight zerg trains are what wins most of the WvW match ups from what Ive seen happen in WvW. 10 men can TRY to take a keep but two peeps on siege weapons can take them out and/or keep them at bay long enough for the zerg to turn up and smash them.

In any case, its still no reason to nerf or destroy content that people are playing, just because you and some others do not like them doing it.

Still not heard a good reason to nerf QD champ train. Convince me otherwise with a well reasoned argument that does not revolve around " I dont like it", or “abuse”.

So…#1 mashing is fun for you? If all the pro- champ train people think alike, then you guys have set a LOW bar for ‘fun’ in video games.

And incorrect again…Coverage is what wins WvW. 24 hour complete map coverage. One champ train cannot be in all spots at all times on all 4 maps. A group of 10 or 12 taking camps and towers, a group of 30 or 40 taking keeps and garrys, 24 hour coverage, on a good amount of the maps. A handful of large blobs can’t do it all. By saying zergs win WvW tells me you don’t play enough. And I think arenanet even said that the more optimal way of playing WvW is not to zerg around but to have multiple groups running and putting swords on different points of the map forcing the other servers to spread their attention. This is what most servers do anyways.

I dont mash 1, thats auto and I use a skill rotation system as do many others. Just because you dont like the way other people are playing content is no reason to insult other players for doing so.

I have played plenty of WvW and what I see happen is this; Biggest zerg wins, hands down. Your assuming that every player is in the zerg because its a big zerg. You can have havok teams and still have a huge zerg rolling around. This is in fact what some servers are doing at this very moment, so I don’t see how you can argue contrary to what is physically happening. And who said the entire 4 maps are in one uber-zerg constantly anyway? 4 seperate zergs is what I see happen daily in each BL and EB, with the overnight crew then going in to the one train to cap across each map

Yes WvW SHOULD be about multiple teams gaining map advantage consistantly. But this is not the case.

And this is still irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is champ farming in queensdale. I will say it again, its not the champ farming that is the issue nor requiring nerfing. Its the fact that the rest of the content in the game world has pathetic rewards.

EG;
Congrats on beating Jormag > Have two silver! Some XP you dont need anymore, and a small amount of Karma. Oh right rewards, eh…………..here have a box o’stuffs! But only one a day, per account!

Thats whats wrong with the rewards system, to heavily weighted to “chests” and rng of such. Actual rewards for event completion are laughable at best. If the DE rewards were adjusted to relate to the effort involved much more people would be out roaming the world. Instead the game shovels “chests” at us as our rewarding factor for content completion where RNG may or may not be nice to you.

So the real issue is the rest of the game world is not rewarding enough, and does not contain what is currently “high demand” items (ie ascended mats).

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

How do you make 5-10 g per hour? Im lucky if I make 1 or 2. The silver you get from the bags and events are offset by the waypointing. Ive watched it closely and its either offsetting or you actually spend more $$ waypointing. So you rely on the champ bags. All I get from these are T5 mats, greens and blues, a skill point here and there, bloodstone dust. I salvage the greens and blues, the ‘large bone’ that I got from the bag might be worth 1.25 silver, and the rest isnt worth anything on the TP. The chance that rare drops is hardly worth the time. Exotic drops are a myth.

I see the champ train as a karma train. Pop a booster, and you get something like 300 or 400 karma per champ..quickly.

But in terms of coin..how do you profit? (serious question)

T6 Mats sales, skin sales on lucky drops, ecto sales, and event cash. Not everyone is desperate to get ascended gears, or can even do so atm, which means mats and ecto can make a pretty penny per hour.

Also rare drops can be very consistent if you have high MF as standard. YMMV.

cesmode.4257:

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

How do you make 5-10 g per hour? Im lucky if I make 1 or 2. The silver you get from the bags and events are offset by the waypointing. Ive watched it closely and its either offsetting or you actually spend more $$ waypointing. So you rely on the champ bags. All I get from these are T5 mats, greens and blues, a skill point here and there, bloodstone dust. I salvage the greens and blues, the ‘large bone’ that I got from the bag might be worth 1.25 silver, and the rest isnt worth anything on the TP. The chance that rare drops is hardly worth the time. Exotic drops are a myth.

I see the champ train as a karma train. Pop a booster, and you get something like 300 or 400 karma per champ..quickly.

But in terms of coin..how do you profit? (serious question)

Not too sure about Queensdale train because I do it rarely, but Frostgorge train definitely will net you 6-7g per hour if you salvage and sell everything you get. I get T6 mats as well as rares, blues, greens, silver, sometimes exotics. If you keep everything, you would just break even due to WP costs as you mentioned.

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

And this right here is the truth- I can’t do dungeons for rl reasons- yet I crafted Eye of Rodgort in just over a month starting form 7g.

I play an hour or so a day

I never jumped on the train before this goal I had, but come on, 500 t6 bloods?

The rest of the game sucks in terms of rewards ,fun yes, but no gold.

Last night I was on the entire Baltazar push- you know what I got?
2 leather straps and some porous bones- I might have got a blue in there somewhere.

cesmode.4257:

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

How do you make 5-10 g per hour? Im lucky if I make 1 or 2. The silver you get from the bags and events are offset by the waypointing. Ive watched it closely and its either offsetting or you actually spend more $$ waypointing. So you rely on the champ bags. All I get from these are T5 mats, greens and blues, a skill point here and there, bloodstone dust. I salvage the greens and blues, the ‘large bone’ that I got from the bag might be worth 1.25 silver, and the rest isnt worth anything on the TP. The chance that rare drops is hardly worth the time. Exotic drops are a myth.

I see the champ train as a karma train. Pop a booster, and you get something like 300 or 400 karma per champ..quickly.

But in terms of coin..how do you profit? (serious question)

Don’t break down the greens and blues. Sell them on the TP. Some of them sell for 20-40 silver a pop. When you bring in 10 green items in 15 minutes, that adds up quick.

Also, I sell all my crafting materials on the TP, because I’m not a crafter/ refuse to do parts of the game I don’t enjoy.

Aeonblade.8709:

cesmode.4257:

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

How do you make 5-10 g per hour? Im lucky if I make 1 or 2. The silver you get from the bags and events are offset by the waypointing. Ive watched it closely and its either offsetting or you actually spend more $$ waypointing. So you rely on the champ bags. All I get from these are T5 mats, greens and blues, a skill point here and there, bloodstone dust. I salvage the greens and blues, the ‘large bone’ that I got from the bag might be worth 1.25 silver, and the rest isnt worth anything on the TP. The chance that rare drops is hardly worth the time. Exotic drops are a myth.

I see the champ train as a karma train. Pop a booster, and you get something like 300 or 400 karma per champ..quickly.

But in terms of coin..how do you profit? (serious question)

Don’t break down the greens and blues. Sell them on the TP. Some of them sell for 20-40 silver a pop. When you bring in 10 green items in 15 minutes, that adds up quick.

If a blue salvages into an Elder Wood (T5), this is worth more than selling the item outright on the TP, no?

cesmode.4257:

Aeonblade.8709:

cesmode.4257:

Aeonblade.8709:

Someone asked why do the champion train in one of their earlier posts (sorry I can’t find it now).

Basically, because it’s one of the few areas of the game that are rewarding. I can go kill mobs in Orr and get nothing, or do the champ train and make nearly 5-10g an hour, depending on luck.

Champ trains are one of the only profitable areas of the game for a casual player.

How do you make 5-10 g per hour? Im lucky if I make 1 or 2. The silver you get from the bags and events are offset by the waypointing. Ive watched it closely and its either offsetting or you actually spend more $$ waypointing. So you rely on the champ bags. All I get from these are T5 mats, greens and blues, a skill point here and there, bloodstone dust. I salvage the greens and blues, the ‘large bone’ that I got from the bag might be worth 1.25 silver, and the rest isnt worth anything on the TP. The chance that rare drops is hardly worth the time. Exotic drops are a myth.

I see the champ train as a karma train. Pop a booster, and you get something like 300 or 400 karma per champ..quickly.

But in terms of coin..how do you profit? (serious question)

Don’t break down the greens and blues. Sell them on the TP. Some of them sell for 20-40 silver a pop. When you bring in 10 green items in 15 minutes, that adds up quick.

If a blue salvages into an Elder Wood (T5), this is worth more than selling the item outright on the TP, no?

It depends, always check before you salvage. I have sold blue items for 40 silver + depending on the item/supply/demand.

Keep in mind selling blues on the tp at 5-10 silver a pop is more reliable than relying on this game’s horrid RNG to give you higher tier crafting materials.

Let the casuals have their champ trains. Everyone knows that’s not where the money is.

Champion loot bags ought to be limited to one or two bags per champion, per day. This might encourage the choo-choo to travel to other zones. A champion check-list would also be nice.

TheRainbowKnight.3651:

Let the casuals have their champ trains. Everyone knows that’s not where the money is.

Please, enlighten me as to an easier/more casual way to make 5-10g in an hour. I don’t count TP manipulation as making money, because it bores me to tears.