Guild Wars 2

Pandaman.4758:

imsoenthused.1634:

You don’t have to like my opinion, and no, I don’t really care if it bothers you.

Oh, I’m not offended and I’m not telling you to change your opinion. Like I said, I don’t buy or sell paths, whether you like or dislike path selling is unimportant to me.

I’m simply pointing out that asking for restrictions to be imposed on others’ choices for a reason as shallow and selfish as personal offense is a toxic attitude. That’s a separate issue from your opinion.

I never said anything about punishing people, unless Anet changed the rules, which I think they should do. Then, yes, people who didn’t follow them should be banned.

At no point did I say people should be banned because path selling offended me. I said it offended me and that I wish Anet would make it against the rules.

So to clarify, you want ANet to force people to play the game how you want them to play because it offends you despite having no impact on your gameplay, and if they don’t then they should be punished. Split hairs aside, that still toxic.

You can climb off your high horse though, Anet isn’t going to change their stance any time soon. Or don’t, whatever. You’ll still think what you do, and I’ll still think what I do, either way.

No, no, I think I’ll stay on my high horse. It wouldn’t be fair if you were the only one on a horse, after all.

I feel like this got kind of combative, mainly because I used some hyperbole in my first post, because I found it amusing. I am not some rabid, anti-selling fanatic. I do it would have been healthier if Anet had just said, “No, it’s not allowed” from the beginning, and I would be happy if they changed their stance now. It’s just my personal opinion, yes, I can deal with other people feeling differently about it.

Can agree that having a separate tab for selling runs would clear up some of the LFG clutter and make it less glaringly visible for the minority of us who find the practice distasteful? Or maybe that’s me being toxic, again.

Bloodstealer.5978:

I think its not really the selling of spots for dungeon paths that is the issue.. its selling spots to complete the last 1% of the end boss that is the issue.
These open spots more often than not are of legit players from the group that suddenly find themselves booted in order for there to be spots to sell..

Now, this is a bannable offense. If reported, it ends up badly for the kickers (if you don’t believe me, look it up, there were enough threads about it on the forums). This is however, to my knowledge, not how the most sell offers come from. As i understand usually it’s the 5-man party that does the whole dungeon up to the last boss, where 4 people exchange their slots for paying customers (and then all 5 share the income).

Bloodstealer.5978:

that is the crux of my dislike of the double standards being set by ANET regarding LFG abuse rules.

LFG abuse and kick abuse is reportable and bannable. Selling the paths and advocating them through LFG is not considered abuse. I don’t see any double standard here.

Bloodstealer.5978:

If ANET are reluctant to police the system so that it utilised in the manner they set out, then why bother putting official stickies out…

So you’d know what you can report and what you shouldn’t.

Bloodstealer.5978:

the same players are abusing that day after day, night after night..

Perhaps noone has reported them yet. Maybe you could change that.

I don’t mind people selling paths, achievements, and the things arenanet has already said are not punishable, but for crying out loud sellers. Can you at least list under the categories? I’m getting sick of seeing people selling Fractal level 50 under the general tab. There is a Fractal tab, use it. Same goes for the dungeon sellers that do the same thing.

You only see it because normal groups get filled very quickly and only the unpopular groups stay in the lfg for a while.

DragonflyDusk.6582:

I don’t mind people selling paths, achievements, and the things arenanet has already said are not punishable, but for crying out loud sellers. Can you at least list under the categories? I’m getting sick of seeing people selling Fractal level 50 under the general tab. There is a Fractal tab, use it. Same goes for the dungeon sellers that do the same thing.

I see this so rarely that i’m tempted to think it’s usually just a legitimate mistake or oversight. Most of the buyers will be looking in the appropriate category and the chances of snaring someone’s interest who was not specifically looking is so low that it wouldn’t make sense to deliberately list in the wrong place.

Also, the reason people sell fractal 50 is so that people whose personal reward level is that high can get that extra daily chest.

imsoenthused.1634:

Pandaman.4758:

imsoenthused.1634:

You don’t have to like my opinion, and no, I don’t really care if it bothers you.

Oh, I’m not offended and I’m not telling you to change your opinion. Like I said, I don’t buy or sell paths, whether you like or dislike path selling is unimportant to me.

I’m simply pointing out that asking for restrictions to be imposed on others’ choices for a reason as shallow and selfish as personal offense is a toxic attitude. That’s a separate issue from your opinion.

I never said anything about punishing people, unless Anet changed the rules, which I think they should do. Then, yes, people who didn’t follow them should be banned.

At no point did I say people should be banned because path selling offended me. I said it offended me and that I wish Anet would make it against the rules.

So to clarify, you want ANet to force people to play the game how you want them to play because it offends you despite having no impact on your gameplay, and if they don’t then they should be punished. Split hairs aside, that still toxic.

You can climb off your high horse though, Anet isn’t going to change their stance any time soon. Or don’t, whatever. You’ll still think what you do, and I’ll still think what I do, either way.

No, no, I think I’ll stay on my high horse. It wouldn’t be fair if you were the only one on a horse, after all.

I feel like this got kind of combative, mainly because I used some hyperbole in my first post, because I found it amusing. I am not some rabid, anti-selling fanatic. I do it would have been healthier if Anet had just said, “No, it’s not allowed” from the beginning, and I would be happy if they changed their stance now. It’s just my personal opinion, yes, I can deal with other people feeling differently about it.

Can agree that having a separate tab for selling runs would clear up some of the LFG clutter and make it less glaringly visible for the minority of us who find the practice distasteful? Or maybe that’s me being toxic, again.

Nothing toxic about that, I think it’s a perfectly fine suggestion. It benefits the community by reducing LFG clutter without restricting peoples’ choices, there’s nothing to complain about there.

Pandaman.4758:

Nothing toxic about that, I think it’s a perfectly fine suggestion. It benefits the community by reducing LFG clutter without restricting peoples’ choices, there’s nothing to complain about there.

Yes, because we all know that chat trade channels have been extremely successful in every game that has it, everyone always use the trade channels and leave the general map/say/whatever chats to real communication, never producing any clutter.

Dawdler.8521:

Pandaman.4758:

Nothing toxic about that, I think it’s a perfectly fine suggestion. It benefits the community by reducing LFG clutter without restricting peoples’ choices, there’s nothing to complain about there.

Yes, because we all know that chat trade channels have been extremely successful in every game that has it, everyone always use the trade channels and leave the general map/say/whatever chats to real communication, never producing any clutter.

Be fair, how much dungeon LFG spam do you see in mapchat? Or people jumping between maps to announce they’re organizing a Triple Trouble run? How often do you see people try to sell things over mapchat?

Whether or not people will adopt the use of a tool depends on how beneficial it proves to be. That other MMOs failed to reduce spam in chat with their tools only indicates they failed to make their tool/channel beneficial, not that the concept itself is flawed.

imsoenthused.1634:

I find it distasteful in the extreme, but arena.net hasn’t declared it verboten, so this is what we get. Personally, I wish they’d make an official statement forbidding it, an then actively ban anyone who tried to do it. Of course, the kind of people who buy and sell these services are hugely offended about anyone who feels this way. They always immediately start screaming “How are they hurting you?” “shouldn’t they be paid for their skill?” etc. I could care less about their arguments though, it’s just tacky and sad, exploitative on the sellers side and pathetic on the buyers. At the very least if Anet banned it they’d have to make shady backroom deals on 3rd party forums and such, and you wouldn’t see it in the LFG tool anymore, and that would be much better. They could hang out in the dark alleys of the internet making shady, shameful deals all they want, always fearful that their dirty secret would come out and their account would be properly banned.

Because that’s totally not an extremist’s opinion. “Don’t care about any of your reasons, what you do is kittening distasteful and you’re an awful person for doing it and you should be banned” like wat, you backed up that claim with regurgitated nonsense that can’t coherently make for an argument in any way

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

Because that’s totally not an extremist’s opinion. “Don’t care about any of your reasons, what you do is kittening distasteful and you’re an awful person for doing it and you should be banned” like wat, you backed up that claim with regurgitated nonsense that can’t coherently make for an argument in any way

At least paraphrase me correctly, I said I don’t care about your opinion, I find it distasteful, and I wish Anet would change their ruling and make it against the rules, then they could ban anyone who attempted to ignore the new rules. I didn’t bother to back up my claim at all in that post. Although in a later post I explained that I think it’s toxic to the community.

P.S. I still do, bye

imsoenthused.1634:

At least paraphrase me correctly, I said I don’t care about your opinion, I find it distasteful, and I wish Anet would change their ruling and make it against the rules, then they could ban anyone who attempted to ignore the new rules. I didn’t bother to back up my claim at all in that post. Although in a later post I explained that I think it’s toxic to the community.

P.S. I still do, bye

It has been part of the game since GW1 – it is just one more option for people to choose to use if they do so. In many ways its no different from farming your favourite area over and over in order to get the gold to buy something on the TP that you wanted but were unlikely to get due to RNG.
Rather than it being toxic I would say its giving people more options on how they want to play.

The fact that you keep stating that you don’t care about anyone elses opinion that doesn’t agree with yours is what I see as toxic. You know if you really find it so distasteful, then maybe you shouldn’t look? No one is forcing you to after all.

I think it is more obvious in GW2 because there is the LFG tool that there wasn’t in GW1 but I still don’t see as many as people seem to be saying here.

The disclaimer:- I have bought paths for my alt accounts (arah) because I wanted the dungeon unlocked for the pvp track and the APs. Ive also ported people on JPs without requesting tips and have been ported and had my tips returned that I sent them unrequested. I believe in rewarding a person for their time, especially if they come out of their way to help me with my awful jumping.

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I think its not really the selling of spots for dungeon paths that is the issue.. its selling spots to complete the last 1% of the end boss that is the issue.
These open spots more often than not are of legit players from the group that suddenly find themselves booted in order for there to be spots to sell..

Now, this is a bannable offense. If reported, it ends up badly for the kickers (if you don’t believe me, look it up, there were enough threads about it on the forums). This is however, to my knowledge, not how the most sell offers come from. As i understand usually it’s the 5-man party that does the whole dungeon up to the last boss, where 4 people exchange their slots for paying customers (and then all 5 share the income).

Bloodstealer.5978:

that is the crux of my dislike of the double standards being set by ANET regarding LFG abuse rules.

LFG abuse and kick abuse is reportable and bannable. Selling the paths and advocating them through LFG is not considered abuse. I don’t see any double standard here.

Bloodstealer.5978:

If ANET are reluctant to police the system so that it utilised in the manner they set out, then why bother putting official stickies out…

So you’d know what you can report and what you shouldn’t.

Bloodstealer.5978:

the same players are abusing that day after day, night after night..

Perhaps noone has reported them yet. Maybe you could change that.

Of course you wouldn’t see the double standards… LFG abuse sticky states the tool is meant for legitimate grouping purposes only.. so using it to form groups to portal to a chest is a no no, grouping up to enter someones home instance to farm the nodes at is considered a no no.. grouping to recruit for a guild or buy/sell an item is a no no.. but selling a path purely to loot the end chest is perfectly acceptable.. forget the dungeon itself its already been done and is purely a click #1 for 2 secs and loot… that is a double standard approach in my book any day of the week.
If its ok to group to loot a dungeon end chest and grab a daily reward for doing so.. then portalling to jump puzzle chests should be perfectly acceptable as well as is entering someones home instance to farm nodes if that person wishes to recoup some coin that had ben invested.

you cant lay out one rule for one thing but then overlook it for another – that is double standards any day of the week.

As for same players abusing the tool continuously.. you think they are not reported… I can guarantee they are because I do if I see the same post more than once especially after whispering them to let them know there is now an official sticky on it.

Some of us aren’t quite as dumb as you might like to try to make out.. what’s dumb is the inconsistency in the rules and how they are upheld

thisisit.6954:

It has been part of the game since GW1 – it is just one more option for people to choose to use if they do so.

Exactly this. Not to mention people would still offer the services for free if they felt like it. I used to run EotN tours for free but people would tip me regardless. I didn’t ask for it, usually I was running my alt or guildies/allies, but would happily advertise any free spots in Local chat.

Since playing GW2, I’ve seen a lot of people offering free portals to JPs. If you don’t want to pay/charge, don’t. There will always be some people who will offer services for free if you can’t manage. Might take a bit longer but I agree that charging for some services is another way of making money and fair play to those who do it. Beats people standing around in LA begging for free stuff.

I think a lot of ire can be avoided if more subcategories were added to the Open World Content category.

I don’t personally sell portals. I’m a horrible platformer, I cannot with words describe how much time and how much swearing it took me to complete all JPs and badges and what not. But when I did complete a really kittene on my Mesmer I spent about 15 min in map chat offering portals figuring however bad I was at it there must be people who are worse and still want the achievement or AP points.
Now, I would never sell these portals because it feels kinda icky to me to do so. On the other hand: I’m an adult with a job and incase I was desperate for money I can buy gems and convert to gold. Not everyone has that opportunity.

Put some kind of subcategory in LFG-tool where people can sell their services and I don’t have to see them.

thisisit.6954:

The fact that you keep stating that you don’t care about anyone elses opinion that doesn’t agree with yours is what I see as toxic. You know if you really find it so distasteful, then maybe you shouldn’t look? No one is forcing you to after all.

But I am forced to see it every time I use the LFG tool. That’s one of the reasons a dedicated selling tab has been mentioned in this thread as a possible solution. I’m sorry if my firm opinion comes across to you as toxic. Should I be disingenuous? Hem and haw and say “well those are all very good points, but…” I could tack the caveat on that I believe my opinion to be correct but would be willing to change it only if a heavenly messenger descends from the sky on wings of light and tells me I’m wrong. Same difference.

You know, I never had any issue whatsoever with people selling runs in GW1, so long as they were actual runs, being run by runners, with running builds, for the purpose of unlocking waypoints. It’s when you get in to selling content rewards that I find it distasteful. I’m perfectly willing to agree to disagree on that point, but that still doesn’t change my opinion.

sirsquishy.8531:

They need another LFG tool for those selling rides. I hate seeing that listed crap as well. Makes me think I am playing a Pay2Win game….

It won’t happen. They allow selling paths under the loophole of “it’s still for grouping.” Currently, they will punish offendors with warnings/bans if you provide proof but they will not compensate your gold or time lost. If they put an lfg tab for this purpose, it would look like intended game design and people would expect compensation when they get burned