Guild Wars 2

I’ve read so many on the forums talking about he/she being the last player standing and then continues writing with the implied notion that he/she is the better player. While in certain situations that holds true, there are times when I see the last person standing as the worst player in the group.

Situations like everyone goes melee range and there’s this one person that stretches the farthest of his range attacks. Yes, you can most definitely dps the boss from where you are standing just fine, regardless 1,200 range away or 130.

I don’t really think that’s the point…

If we were fighting Malrona (the TA Exp Up Path Spider boss), definitely range is the way to go for everyone. If we were fighting Fyonna (the TA Exp Up Path boss after the Spider), even if you were holding a ranged weapon such as a bow or a staff, please fight the boss at melee range so that she doesn’t end up running around like some mad woman on the loose, and worse if she runs out of the cave, causing all the spider eggs to hatch.

Or in FOTM where we got to the Ascalon fractal, and the farthest person standing is holding back all the NPCs, preventing them to go where they are needed…

When everyone goes melee, the benefits are -

1. Being able to res each other when one of the members gets downed because the boss targetted him instead of the rest

2. Tossing out buffs that nearby players can benefit, and this is possible when everyone is within range of each other and usually that is in melee range.

3. AOE heals and debuffs etc.

And then there’s also the case of players complaining about warriors wearing berserker gear being down more often than anybody else, which automatically makes them the natural worst player?

Sometimes that last person standing is all that makes the difference, and actually makes everyone notice whether he’s the strongest link or the broken one.

It depends a lot on circumstances.

First to die is often the person who plays bad, and took unnecessary risks.
Last to die is the leech who is trying to avoid repair costs and therefor probably made it wipe when not entirely necessary.

Only in case of wiping ofc.

The last person standing could also just be lucky. I’ve been trying to figure out aggro patterns and I’ve got no idea. I should probably look it up…

I’m occasionally the last person standing in my parties, and most of the people I play with seem to think I’m pretty good at what I do. I’m a much better “utility” player than direct damage dealer. My main is a mesmer and I bring a lot to the party, but I don’t often see huge numbers like berzerker warriors might. I also don’t melee all that often.

There’s no 100% truth on anything Sometimes the last person standing will be lucky, sometimes it’s skill that keeps them going. In some cases, I’m standing because I have the ability to blink out of an ice crystal or something like that. I have ways I can survive as a mesmer.

But mostly, I think, there is a certain “type” of player,. the run in, don’t think, attack that ends up dying first. I’ve seen a lot of them. They’re not necessary on the same page as everyone else. Or they’re doing something very efficiently and the rest of the group hasn’t done the dungeon before so they end up alone, because people are trying to catch up.

Because I run predominantly with my guild, I don’t really run into this problem that much, but there are a few run run run guys I have to rein in. Then again, I’m not running any races doing dungeons.

I tend to kill mobs rather than run past them, with a few exceptions.

No, I don’t think I’m necessarily better than others for surviving, but sometimes the first person down is the person who isn’t aware that the rest of the party hasn’t caught up yet.

The one who has the most PVT pieces is the best player.

I play a Guardian with full Soldier gear, I am support traited with shout condition removal. I can’t dodge for kitten and always stands in fire. I am the lone survivor, I am Legend.

kitten me right?

That’s because you can roll your face on your keyboard and survive as a defensive/heal Guardian, lol

Anyway, no…first or last to go down doesn’t mean much to me. Watch your party and how they play. It will tell you a lot more about your group than the order people go down when something bad happened in one situation.

OliverT.9021:

And then there’s also the case of players complaining about warriors wearing berserker gear being down more often than anybody else, which automatically makes them the natural worst player?

I agree with everything you wrote except the above sentence. Because a warrior in berserker gear that goes down alot is a liability to the group, and there are many of those from what I hear. If your game mechanics knowledge and playskill allow you to wear berserker without going down more often by all means do it, the group welcomes the dps.

In my experience, the last man standing is the coward one, the one that left before the rest wipe and even before it was clear that there would be a wipe.

So technically (and still in my experience), it’s the worst player because he doesn’t know his strength and how much he adds to the group.

If he continues fighting with the group, then I have nothing to add, he’s good, but in all other case (and in my experience, yes again), he is not.

OliverT.9021:

And then there’s also the case of players complaining about warriors wearing berserker gear being down more often than anybody else, which automatically makes them the natural worst player?

Yes. Because that person knowingly wore the armor with 0 survivability and full damage. There is the expectation that even if someone is in zerk gear, he should know how to survive. I’m not saying warriors with zerk are bad players. I’m saying warriors with zerk who get downed every 5 seconds ARE the bad players.

Good player, bad player or worst player? Who are you people to judge? There is not a player that has not died or did something stupid at one time or another.

Legendary Ice Shaman Lornar, the guy in the Snowstorm Fractal. You can perfectly circlestrafe his icy breath, take no damage while the rest of the group dies and still be the worst player.

It is not important where a player dies, it is more important where he goes down. Because the latter defines whether or not the group can easily rally that person. Not all classes have excessive movement options when they are down, meaning you can expect different things from different classes before they go down. Eles and Thieves will always be more aggressive, especially when rallying others.

Best player in the party is the worst player. Its a team effort so you’re only as good the youre worst player and it makes no sense to even ask that question.

OliverT.9021:

I’ve read so many on the forums talking about he/she being the last player standing and then continues writing with the implied notion that he/she is the better player. While in certain situations that holds true, there are times when I see the last person standing as the worst player in the group.

Sometimes that last person standing is all that makes the difference, and actually makes everyone notice whether he’s the strongest link or the broken one.

It’s a biased viewpoint so even if they were the worst player, they’ll still think they’re the best, and seem perversely happy the rest of the party wiped as proof of their superiority. Yeah, it could really be a bad group and you are the bestest player, but on the other hand, it could also mean you’re not a team player.
I have seen PUGs that are experienced, but play like they’re solo and do things that make it difficult for the rest of the party. Especially when they rush and start the next encounter when not everyone is ready yet, or pull more mobs over to low health teammates.

• in 1on1: last man standing = best
• in battle royal: last man standing = best
• in individualling bosses: last man standing = wisest
• in grouping bosses: last man standing = #depends on situation#
• in grouping dungeons: last man standing = #depends on situation#

from last two cases:

• could be a coward; running when mob comes near, leaving party area
• could be a healer; tried healing others, but mobs outdamaged your heal
• could be lucky; last targeted/ hit by enemy
• could be solo player; building armor and not caring about the party

Personally, I’m the mesmer healer type. I set my traits to group support/ heal, but another important trait of healers is survival. A dead healer is of no uses, they have to survive to heal/ ress the party. Being the last man standing as such often meant, you failed helping enough. And dying first basically, too.

It just really depends on the situation.

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no.

Depends on how long that person is alive after the other 4 are dead.

I’ve had my group tell me to “just die” more than a couple times after a wipe because I was able to hold my own against bosses.

OliverT.9021:

I’ve read so many on the forums talking about he/she being the last player standing and then continues writing with the implied notion that he/she is the better player. While in certain situations that holds true, there are times when I see the last person standing as the worst player in the group.

Situations like everyone goes melee range and there’s this one person that stretches the farthest of his range attacks. Yes, you can most definitely dps the boss from where you are standing just fine, regardless 1,200 range away or 130.

I don’t really think that’s the point…

If we were fighting Malrona (the TA Exp Up Path Spider boss), definitely range is the way to go for everyone. If we were fighting Fyonna (the TA Exp Up Path boss after the Spider), even if you were holding a ranged weapon such as a bow or a staff, please fight the boss at melee range so that she doesn’t end up running around like some mad woman on the loose, and worse if she runs out of the cave, causing all the spider eggs to hatch.

Or in FOTM where we got to the Ascalon fractal, and the farthest person standing is holding back all the NPCs, preventing them to go where they are needed…

When everyone goes melee, the benefits are -

1. Being able to res each other when one of the members gets downed because the boss targetted him instead of the rest

2. Tossing out buffs that nearby players can benefit, and this is possible when everyone is within range of each other and usually that is in melee range.

3. AOE heals and debuffs etc.

And then there’s also the case of players complaining about warriors wearing berserker gear being down more often than anybody else, which automatically makes them the natural worst player?

Sometimes that last person standing is all that makes the difference, and actually makes everyone notice whether he’s the strongest link or the broken one.

Really depends, I mean let’s say cof p1, i’m usually the melee warrior who is still standing alive with 90 % hp while the other 4 guys are downed in the red. However, i’d say even the leech who is ranging is being a better player than the dead guy who was meleeing. Since dead = no dps, range = some dps.

Of course, there is always the coward selfish guy who refuses to rev or help others when needed and just runs when the parties all down (that’s your true classic leech there). My number one cause of death is saving others, because that’s just my nature.

Sometimes the last man standing is only doing so because another party member quickness rezzed him 3/4 thru the fight. It’s a team effort. And it’s based on a lot of variables.

Last man standing means nothing, never has. It is true that I am usually the last man standing in a bad group, but this is just a natural occurrence due to speccing my Thief in to high evasion capabilities, so if a situation was so hairy that it ends up killing my group, I’ve somehow got enough evades to escape. However, that doesn’t somehow make me better than anyone else. If you’re the last man standing and then perform feats of incredible finesse, perhaps saving your group in the process, THEN perhaps you can say something about being a better player. Apart from that, simply being alive the longest is meaningless.

Although, I don’t take kindly to saying that Malrona should only be ranged. She only has two attacks, one of which fires directly in front of her and the other can be easily dodged through with proper timing. I, and many others in groups I’ve played with, melee her without a problem.

Being last man or best player means nothing if your party got repressed feelings of inferiority and still decides to betray you right in the end. (+legendary weapon to add to the fuel)
Which I’ve experienced the last dungeon run.

Just focus on being who you are, and if possible always be the leader – let the rest of the party think whatever they want, as long as you’re literally the last man standing.

Sometimes I am the last man standing, and sometimes the first to go down.
It all depends on what I am doing. If I attack at range, I can outlast most of the party, if I melee, I’m going to die, simple as that.

Auesis.7301:

Although, I don’t take kindly to saying that Malrona should only be ranged. She only has two attacks, one of which fires directly in front of her and the other can be easily dodged through with proper timing. I, and many others in groups I’ve played with, melee her without a problem.

You do want to get hit by her frontal attack as it gives you dmg x5 and the other one can be reflected for great dmg. Combine the two and keep dps-ing instead of dodging and you’ll gib her.

This post is pretty much 100 percent accurate and while situations may vary, usually the last is the worst. If your team goes down, so should you technically. If the team is comprised of lets say, 2 guardians, 1 GS ranger, 1 Warrior and a ele, the decision is already made when you joined. This is a melee team. So if your standing plinking away with auto staff attacks while your team is in melee range, your giving no benefits, your drawing aggro crazily, your not doing maximum dps with d/d, you cant really res good etc…Even if you live, its not an accomplishment. If your team is fighting lava shaman fotm, and most everyone is ranged, and you outsurvive, that could be the sign of a great player. The thing is, if it killed the whole team, why didnt it kill you? Either your stacked to the brim with defense/heals which can be discouraged, or you are just that good, in which case, hats off too you, Pro Tactics, but thats rare sadly

Doesn’t have to be that everyone wipes, if I’m meleeing with my thief along with a warrior or a guardian. If the mob does a big attack and I was able to avoid it but the other guy didn’t and he dies, I feel like a boss

Honestly, without any solid aggro mechanics, it makes it hard to tell anything about who’s the best player. I just can’t answer this solidly with mobs bouncing randomly between kitten half the time.

I am usually the last person standing in my group. Sometimes I feel like it is because I am the better player in the group but others it is just because I never get agro until everyone else is downed or dead.

Being a good player is situational. Just because you are the last person standing does not make you a good player. I was in TA as my Warrior and was the last person standing in a fight against Malrona. This means that my team really sucked at dodging as a whole. I ran around trying to rez our guardian so that I could get some boons and be less stressed on my dodging. I ran out of dodge and became downed. I then used my 3 on my downed bar to rez and save our Guardian. I would have died anyways from Malrona so using my 3 knowing nothing would save me was the smart choice. I saved the guardian and prevented a wipe and we ended up beating the boss because of it.

That is one of the only times where I felt that the only reason we made it through this dungeon was because I was a better player.

OliverT.9021:

When everyone goes melee, the benefits are -

1. Being able to res each other when one of the members gets downed because the boss targetted him instead of the rest

2. Tossing out buffs that nearby players can benefit, and this is possible when everyone is within range of each other and usually that is in melee range.

3. AOE heals and debuffs etc.

When I go melee as a ranger, the detriments are:

- In melee reach range of the target. This can be inconsequential or very important. General trash mobs? Not always important. Champion Risen Abomination? Very important.

- Not having my best weapon out. Seriously, my melee weapons are all behind my longbow currently. I’m working on that, but right now that’s only a Greatsword and maybe you can count the Axe/Torch (or Axe/Warhorn).

- Oftentimes, less ability for me to spot tells on attacks directed at me. Which means I get worse at dodging since things obscure the enemy. Which means I take more damage.

I get the point of “don’t want it ping-ponging around” – I played EverQuest where it was a big issue if someone accidentally kinda over-nuked with their wizard. (Usually resulting in “rez pls” or a wipe.) And I get the point of “being in range for buffs” . . . but if I am using a bow on, say, that Searing Effigy at the end of CoF1 I’m not in melee and more than likely not where it’s going to be doing damage. Which means I’ll be doing damage semi-consistently, rather than either being made dead or having to stop repeatedly.

People might (and probably will) call me a bad player for this sort of thing. The final kernel of truth is: Don’t care, I’m having fun not dying and not messing the group up by going down every 30 seconds

Edit: Also reminds me of a few times in old Guild Wars where I was the last man standing on a few things . . . and had a reusable resurrect skill. Which meant “hey we don’t wipe this time”. Fun times . . .

As with most things, it depends…

The last person standing because he’s actually invested in some Toughness and Vitality when the rest of the party is comprised of one-track-minded berserkers is still standing because he’s the only one of the bunch with wisdom. The last person standing because he ran away at the first sign of resistance is still standing because he’s selfish and a coward.

OliverT.9021:

When everyone goes melee, the benefits are -

1. Being able to res each other when one of the members gets downed because the boss targetted him instead of the rest

2. Tossing out buffs that nearby players can benefit, and this is possible when everyone is within range of each other and usually that is in melee range.

3. AOE heals and debuffs etc.

When everyone goes ranged, the benefits are -

1. Kiting mobs easier due to agro switching

2. Many combo fields are used by AoE weapons

3. Easy to kill Melee bosses by locking them in place

You should not be focused on playing either ranged or melee, you should alternate as the situation dictates. I switch between ranged and melee roughly every 6-7 seconds.

Fror.2163:

In my experience, the last man standing is the coward one, the one that left before the rest wipe and even before it was clear that there would be a wipe.

So technically (and still in my experience), it’s the worst player because he doesn’t know his strength and how much he adds to the group.

If he continues fighting with the group, then I have nothing to add, he’s good, but in all other case (and in my experience, yes again), he is not.

That doesn’t make sense. Somebody who knows his strength and runs because he cba to die isn’t a bad player.

In various occasions in a Dungeon where only me and another guy are still alive, ofc I’ll try to back off. What’s the point in trying 50% of the mobs by myself. If I see a reasonable chance though I will try.

You seem to be one of those who jump right into a fight without coordination. To die after 10 seconds. Well done, according to your definition it makes you a good player.

Best solution anyway is to have a fixed team or a guild team and at least one experienced player.

I play thief, i can stealth a lot so if i’m the last man standing it doesn’t mean i wasn’t doing terribly on the run.

I agree with the opinions that the last man standing has nothing to do with if you’re the “best” player or the “worst” player.

For me, the criteria of being the best player in the party is being the best team player. This means making the best decision for the party at every single moment. If you have 4 people down/defeated, how did it get to that point, and could you have prevented that from happening?

Yes, sometimes people getting downed is their own fault. If you had the opportunity (read: minimal risk of getting downed) to help them up and you didn’t, I don’t think you made the best decision for your party.

On the flip side, sometimes someone gets downed in a terrible spot where trying to res them would actually lead to the resser getting downed as well, I think the best decision for the party is sometimes to just let that person get defeated if there are no other options.

And hey, sometimes people can surprise you with their tenacity, too. Have you ever been in Volcanic where 3 people go down to the legendary shaman, and 1 person drags the shaman away from the corpses and holds it while the other works on ressing? That’s some serious teamwork and skill.

Whenever Im last man standing in a dungeon I don’t feel lucky or superior. I feel ‘ kitten I gotta pick these guys up quick’. Occasionally to quip “Im so BA, I even scare myself” but other than that LMS=LMS.

This is why I prefer to play solo. I am the best.

marnick.4305:

First to die is often the person who plays bad, and took unnecessary risks.

Or the person Mossman decided he really didn’t like and chain threw axes at.

DigitalKirin.9714:

And hey, sometimes people can surprise you with their tenacity, too. Have you ever been in Volcanic where 3 people go down to the legendary shaman, and 1 person drags the shaman away from the corpses and holds it while the other works on ressing? That’s some serious teamwork and skill.

I always feel amazing when I do that. It’s one of the things I live for against bosses, and is probably one of the reasons that boss is right up there with GL in terms of favorite bosses in-game.

Instead of trying to debate whether or not the last man standing is the best player, I think it’s more important to acknowledge the fact that the player who has been holding aggro the longest and staying alive while throwing vital support skills is your best player and is most likely carrying the team… usually the guardian because mobs mostly have beef with toughness and heavy armor.

If there is a last man standing the whole team failed including him.

Nah, id rather debate because any guardian can stack defense and hold aggro. Doesnt mean hes the best player by a longshot.

JJBigs.8456:

Nah, id rather debate because any guardian can stack defense and hold aggro. Doesnt mean hes the best player by a longshot.

Not true. Any guardian can attempt to do this job (and fail) only a good guardian can do it well. Your statement may be true in WoW though where gear and looking at a thread bar is all you need.

I’d say last person standing is either lucky, best at using their party members as meat shields, or is pretty good at kiting. Depending on class there are other reasons for this aswell.

Don’t think being the last one standing is always such a good thing in this game. It really depends on why/how they are the last person standing. Did they solo that last boss we all died on? Then yeah they deserve some kudos. :P But I haven’t seen that happen very often in this game.

Eladriel.7295:

Good player, bad player or worst player? Who are you people to judge? There is not a player that has not died or did something stupid at one time or another.

This is the right answer.

I don’t understand this need for players to gauge who’s “holding the group back”, rather than just concentrating on their own work and the perils ahead. There’s no benefit to it-all it causes is needless arguments and party strife.

Best player is the 3rd to die.

The overly risky die first, the overly conservative die last.

It’s 4 men dead. Not 1 man standing.

Having to simplistically label actions or things as “best” and “worst” is nothing but the primate brain trying to establish a picking order, and considerations like this have no place in any rational discussion.

In short: who gives a kitten ?

There have been plenty of times, through many games, when only one of us was left standing. Timing, circumstances, it happens.

Doesn’t matter which one of us was still standing. We don’t have “best” or “worst”. We have a given fight with a set of circumstances.

If only one of the 4 of us is standing at the end of the fight, it means we failed as a group.

Then it’s time to figure out why, what could have been done better, what could we have avoided, what might we need to do better next time, or was it just a mistake, can we acknowledge it and move on?

We have each other’s backs in game, that includes not caring about arbitrary labels in one specific incident; we have more important things to care about.

A zerker warrior dying just means he’s bad, has nothing to do with his gear since I run zerker on every class.. anything else is just pointless if you know how to dodge. Run 3k toughness and 30k HP, cool you can survive a few more hits… in exchange for massive damage loss.

OT: really it’s all situational.

Mathias.9657:

A zerker warrior dying just means he’s bad, has nothing to do with his gear since I run zerker on every class.. anything else is just pointless if you know how to dodge. Run 3k toughness and 30k HP, cool you can survive a few more hits… in exchange for massive damage loss.

OT: really it’s all situational.

-He/she could have made a mistake, which is human

-He/she could have heed your advice "zerk is always best, I never die on it and do more damage than the “noobs” on their defensive gear!" but his/her playstyle may NOT be suited to the gear that was promised to him/her as being the “best” and only “efficient” way to play GW2

-He/she could have run out of dodges while using a dodge by accident on a lesser attack

In short, I dislike when people have to justify their use of Berserker’s gear by putting down every other option in the game. You don’t use Berserker’s because you know how to dodge (I.E. you see yourself as “leet”) and others don’t (“the poor baddies in training wheels gear”): you use it because you like it, period. That’s enough justification for it. Other people ALSO KNOW HOW TO DODGE; THEY JUST DON’T WANT TO USE BERSERKER’S GEAR, and they don’t do it to “ kitten their offense” but because they prefer their individual choice, whichever it may be.

I don’t mean to offend, though. I don’t mind when people use that gear, but quasi-forcing it on others as the one “leet way” to play gets tiring over time. It’s OK for people to use the gear they want, even if you think they are doing themselves a disservice, or that they are making things “too slow” for your taste. It’s OK for you to use that gear, but it’s also great if others don’t want to use it-they are no worse players than you are just because they refuse to use Berserker’s gear (just the facts, I do not mean to disrespect the way you choose to play the game.)

When your the last man standing and then solo the rest of the vets/silvers/ or boss by yourself its safe to say your party just sucks and you are better. Now if everyone wipes and your running for your life then its a simple case of you all screwed up and you just happened to not get aggro till last.

…..
Ya its like that.

I am generally the last man standing and finish off what killed the group…

Im rolling 127% crit damage and 66% crit chance with 5095 effective power. But then again a im a mesmer.

This thread is starting to look like a lot of excuses now, haha.

I’m frequently the last one standing. The reason being, I’ll go to great lengths to avoid death and believe in my ability to either defeat the boss alone if I really have to, or be able to escape because…why not? If there is no victory condition, it’s better to flee than die – more of a fun rush that way.