Guild Wars 2

After 3 1/2 years, is anyone really surprised at any of this?

Just asking. ArenaNet have been operating in panic mode since beta.

Everything has always felt rushed,

There’s very little overall attention to detail (except for very specific things you can tell a specific dev put some specific love into, all by her/himself),

Every fix breaks something else, and every content delivery is (somehow) just not what we were led to believe was coming.

All I can say is enjoy the game as you can, or don’t and do something else. High expectations from ArenaNet have only led to disappointment for a long time now. They’re obviously perpetually flailing.

Chuo.4238:

After 3 1/2 years, is anyone really surprised at any of this?

Just asking. ArenaNet have been operating in panic mode since beta.

Everything has always felt rushed,

There’s very little overall attention to detail (except for very specific things you can tell a specific dev put some specific love into, all by her/himself),

Every fix breaks something else, and every content delivery is (somehow) just not what we were led to believe was coming.

All I can say is enjoy the game as you can, or don’t and do something else. High expectations from ArenaNet have only led to disappointment for a long time now. They’re obviously perpetually flailing.

More like, every content delivery is not functioning as intended and basically unplayable for a good 30 to 50% of the time it is available in game. Looking at you, Marionettes and Teleporters in “The Battle for Lions Arch”

Gene Archer.8560:

CETheLucid.3964:

Then the player doesn’t feel as strongly about the subject as the bluster might indicate.

No, rather it’s the fact that ANet should be offering refunds without any strings attached.

People shouldn’t have to get their accounts closed in order to get a refund on something they paid for that is no longer being delivered.

What do you not get about this?

CETheLucid.3964:

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

Then you are simply incapable of empathy/sympathy or understanding and it would be better for you to just stop posting in this thread, because in no way are you helping the situation.

If you don’t understand at this point, you will most likely never understand.

I can understand why someone might value their account. I can empathize with that.

That said I think a lot of the more… passionate… people here put far too much value on their accounts.

At least it certainly doesn’t match their vitriol on the subject at hand. But I can understand that too.

College kids puffing their chests out, with powerful, impassioned language of the do or die variety, determined to act on some greater value…

You know, as long as it isn’t inconvenient to do so.

H.O.P.E and Nevermore.. Someone was giving us hints all along..

Spira.4578:

H.O.P.E and Nevermore.. Someone was giving us hints all along..

lol!

A tinfoil hat I’ll wear with pride!

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

If you feel strongly enough to request a refund for the sake of HoT legendary weps but loves you that core GW2, make a free account after the fact?

/shrug

Because he doesn’t want to lose his characters, the gem store items he’s bought for them, etc, etc? Those would be good reasons not to want to start over with a free account.

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

To be honest, though, I do think the Bubble Glider skin is awesome and it’s kind of ridiculous to lynch it for this, as I believe it’s safe to assume it was planned and finished before this decision was made.

Not gonna buy it though, not for a LOOOOOOONG time.

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

If you feel strongly enough to request a refund for the sake of HoT legendary weps but loves you that core GW2, make a free account after the fact?

/shrug

Because he doesn’t want to lose his characters, the gem store items he’s bought for them, etc, etc? Those would be good reasons not to want to start over with a free account.

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

That’s a legit complaint. But from the look of it, they can’t give you a refund on HoT without shutting down your whole account.

If your values are immutable, you’ve lost all hope in Anet… that’s an option. If you’re not quite as passionate about it or you’re willing to see what happens, wait it out.

That’s the situation.

Ticky.5831:

To be honest, though, I do think the Bubble Glider skin is awesome and it’s kind of ridiculous to lynch it for this, as I believe it’s safe to assume it was planned and finished before this decision was made.

Not gonna buy it though, not for a LOOOOOOONG time.

But its all bubbly and full of hot air… Its kind of like when Anet gives you their word for something.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

In the end they don’t care. Most players don’t read the forums and will never know about this. They will start asking questions in 5-6 months and then realize they’ve been duped and it is too late to do anything about it. Anet just needs to keep people off the forums and keep pumping out gemstore items and then they can safely ignore us. I saw about 50 bubble gliders yesterday….

This news does not just stay on the forums. People read this and spread it in game. As for bubble glider, the people I know who have this spent in game gold where previously they would have spent real life money. They refuse to spend money on gems and now will use gold.

AysonCurrax.3254:

Ticky.5831:

To be honest, though, I do think the Bubble Glider skin is awesome and it’s kind of ridiculous to lynch it for this, as I believe it’s safe to assume it was planned and finished before this decision was made.

Not gonna buy it though, not for a LOOOOOOONG time.

But its all bubbly and full of hot air… Its kind of like when Anet gives you their word for something.

Oooooooh.

Ok that’s just clever.

(But I do think it’s awesome)

Mike O Brien.4613:

Hi all,

As game director I have to make tough trade-offs. One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities. I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front.

Mo

Ain’t gonna lie, I’m a bit shocked to see you bring this up. I sorta thought the Manifesto got beaten completely to death in the first year after release.

But hey, we can go there again. For reference:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

Chuo.4238:

Mike O Brien.4613:

Hi all,

As game director I have to make tough trade-offs. One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities. I wrote in the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto in 2010 that our vision was to create a living, dynamic world, where there’s always something to do. Let’s ensure we succeed on that front.

Mo

Ain’t gonna lie, I’m a bit shocked to see you bring this up. I sorta thought the Manifesto got beaten completely to death in the first year after release.

But hey, we can go there again. For reference:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

Looked over it. Canthan District k thx bye.

CETheLucid.3964:

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

If you feel strongly enough to request a refund for the sake of HoT legendary weps but loves you that core GW2, make a free account after the fact?

/shrug

Because he doesn’t want to lose his characters, the gem store items he’s bought for them, etc, etc? Those would be good reasons not to want to start over with a free account.

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

That’s a legit complaint. But from the look of it, they can’t give you a refund on HoT without shutting down your whole account.

If your values are immutable, you’ve lost all hope in Anet… that’s an option. If you’re not quite as passionate about it or you’re willing to see what happens, wait it out.

That’s the situation.

They can give a refund of the HoT purchase price without shutting down an entire account. Sending money via a credit network, or even mailing a check, does not require even touching an account. What they might not be able to do is remove access to HoT post link to core account without closing the core account. The burden for the lack of foresight to include that functionality lies with the merchant, not the consumer.

A desire for a refund of purchase price for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering on advertised features, while desiring to keep a paid for product which did, is not necessarily a matter of passion, hope, etc. Its simple economics and being a responsible consumer. If product A meets your expectations buy it, enjoy it, keep it. If product B does not include advertised features get your money back. If said features are delayed, and the time period of the delay seems reasonable to you, then you might choose to wait. That decision should be the consumer’s to make without the specter of the loss of his entire account forcing his hand.

It seems, to me, that a complete lack of a time frame for delivery of the lacking, or underdelivered, advertised features makes making an informed decision regarding whether or not to wait difficult, if not impossible, so a refund now, and possibly a repurchase later when the adverised features are in place, could be a perfectly reaonable course of action for some customers.

CETheLucid.3964:

Alright.

“Man, why isn’t Anet ever transparent with us?! If they would just tell us what they’re doing people won’t get so mad about things chang—lolnvmlegendariesrsrsbsnss BURN THE WITCHES”

They wouldn’t have that problem if they could deliver. It’s just they have that tiny little problem with abandoning content right and left in order to find people to do the new shiny.

CETheLucid.3964:

A lot of things in development change or ultimately flesh out differently.

That’s part of the development process.

That’s only until they get paid for this. After you take the money, you’d better deliver. And it doesn’t matter whether the part getting cut is bigger or less important (especially since it’s always highly subjective). It’s not their call to decide what was important to the buyer and what wasn’t/

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

Ashen.2907:

CETheLucid.3964:

Celtic Lady.3729:

CETheLucid.3964:

If you feel strongly enough to request a refund for the sake of HoT legendary weps but loves you that core GW2, make a free account after the fact?

/shrug

Because he doesn’t want to lose his characters, the gem store items he’s bought for them, etc, etc? Those would be good reasons not to want to start over with a free account.

Putting myself in the position of the wronged and betrayed, I’m still not getting.

On one hand, I show the company my displeasure by requesting a refund on HoT for legendary weapons being less than advertised on the principles of getting what I paid for.

A legit “This was false advertising and I won’t accept MO’s platitudes!” kinda guy.

On the other hand, I don’t request a refund because I like all the virtual stuff and goodies the account has that is run by the very same people I feel are treacherous and dishonest.

If I put myself in the “I’m waiting for them to say something or right this perceived wrong” camp, I guess I can understand waiting at this point.

But if you have strong feelings in this situation and you still elect to suffer through what you believe are treacherous and dishonest people?

For the sake of virtual goods you have no quarter over? Ultimately controlled by the very same people you believe are treacherous and dishonest?

You may have a problem. And I wish you the best in sorting out that dichotomy.

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

That’s a legit complaint. But from the look of it, they can’t give you a refund on HoT without shutting down your whole account.

If your values are immutable, you’ve lost all hope in Anet… that’s an option. If you’re not quite as passionate about it or you’re willing to see what happens, wait it out.

That’s the situation.

They can give a refund of the HoT purchase price without shutting down an entire account. Sending money via a credit network, or even mailing a check, does not require even touching an account. What they might not be able to do is remove access to HoT post link to core account without closing the core account. The burden for the lack of foresight to include that functionality lies with the merchant, not the consumer.

A desire for a refund of purchase price for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering on advertised features, while desiring to keep a paid for product which did, is not necessarily a matter of passion, hope, etc. Its simple economics and being a responsible consumer. If product A meets your expectations buy it, enjoy it, keep it. If seperate product B does not include advertised features get your money back. If said features are delayed, and the time period of the delay seems reasonable to you, then you might choose to wait. That decision should be the consumer’s to make without the specter of the loss of his entire account forcing his hand.

It seems, to me, that a complete lack of a time frame for delivery of the lacking, or underdelivered, advertised features makes making an informed decision regarding whether or not to wait difficult, if not impossible, so a refund now, and possibly a repurchase later when the adverised features are in place, could be a perfectly reaonable course of action for some customers.

Well, here’s hoping for you. But where we’re at now is where we are.

By saying they are stopping work on legendaries because they require such a “huge” quantity of work they are basically admitting that they are removing a “huge” part of HoT.

This game is just not going to survive without long-term goals for the veteran players. The living story was generally bad except when it was tied with new map releases like Silverwaste and Dry Top, or had crazy events like the Marionette fight (but the game doesn’t have the population to support this anymore).

They should start by showing respect and refunding 10$ of the sale price of HoT to everyone. Then maybe people will feel somehow compensated for the removal of content they paid for.

Ashen.2907:

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

I am no lawyer and hence may be wrong but I think that what we bought is access to a service. When you click the “accept” button you sign a contract where you say " take my money so that I can log in the game" and Anet say " I take your money and grant you access to the game server, so long you behave properly. And since it is our product we have all rights to do any change we want".

We don’t really pay for features and somehow I doubt the legislation on games would change because what you buy is no material.

I just want to raise this point because I think it is ok to be kittened by the news and to express disappointment or whatever feeling but the discussion won’t go far if people try to overthink the situation to end up with arguments that they are robbers or incompetent people.
I don’t think we have any right to discuss company organisation, we can only comment if we like the product or not. Hell I hope nobody here feels he can teach me my job. Unless you own your video game company, I think you lack too much knowledge to comment on how the company is managed, how easy or not it is to implement feature A or B. We are customers, players, end users… so we should stick to comments about the end product : do we like what we have? Do we like the direction? Why… but pulling the discussion further than this (like “NCsfot decided this” or “they have money trouble” or “I’m sure they fired Colin”) is not bringing it anywhere.
I mean, I like french fries but it doesn’t give me the right to teach farmers how they should grow potatoes.

In the present case, they acknowledge they broke a promise about implementing 16 legendaries and apologize for it. From this point we can say that we don’t care or that we actually do and then explain why. The reason can totally be “I feel cheated”, “it spoils the game for me, I quit”, “I won’t trust your promises anymore and won’t pre order next expansion”… all of this is fine. But more than that is pure speculations and trap ourselves in thought circles where we get even more upset just by restating the same speculations over and over again.
And to finish about those who say they are too silent : what should they say now? The game director come and say he scrapped a feature that was promised, that he is sorry and that he understands we are upset. Now what, because one guy says it is robbery or calls the entire company incompetent, does anyone reasonably think he will post again and say " yeah whip me, I am bad, I do bad things since ten years and you all buy these…. I have no clue how to develop game and all I want is your money so that I can retire on a desert island "

CETheLucid.3964:

I can understand why someone might value their account. I can empathize with that.

Your posts thus far demonstrate otherwise, and continue to do so.

CETheLucid.3964:

College kids puffing their chests out, with powerful, impassioned language of the do or die variety, determined to act on some greater value…

You know, as long as it isn’t inconvenient to do so.

You keep missing the point that it shouldn’t be inconvenient for the customers in this situation. Or if you’re not missing that point, you keep ignoring it.

As I said. You are clearly incapable of understanding. You don’t care about the current situation. You have said as such.

I can only say that I look forward to the day they hit something you do truly care about. Because maybe on that day you’ll be able to understand.

Henry.5713:

SlateSloan.3654:

Hmmm. It makes no sense for a ceo to step on a public forum to tell them players what will not be done. It would have been easier to just release new story and keep people busy with the story until time for 1-2 more legendaries would be found to release some more legendaries. Noone here would have said anything. I bet out of the 41 pages of this thread 40 pages of players would not have even noticed the delay of the weapons lol.

Its just normal this thread explodes when paying people get to know that what they payed is being put on hold with no sight on when the work will be continued…

Theres no reason to throw any bad news to the wolves if there isnt something in the background waiting.

I hope for you that the spring update is not turned into summer update suddenly^^

you better deliver a huge awesome april update now lol

I think that the goals for ebit set by ncsoft are too greedy.

It was actually quite refreshing to not get that type of developer behaviour for a change. Not that I see this becoming a trend.

It really is. The transparency is refreshing, but the person to whom you replied is right.

Ranael.6423:

Not really. What it comes to is:
Did we pay for the services that they were promoting? yes
Did they deliver the services they were promoting? no.
There’s no excuse and no explanation that would change this fact.

Gene Archer.8560:

CETheLucid.3964:

I can understand why someone might value their account. I can empathize with that.

Your posts thus far demonstrate otherwise, and continue to do so.

CETheLucid.3964:

College kids puffing their chests out, with powerful, impassioned language of the do or die variety, determined to act on some greater value…

You know, as long as it isn’t inconvenient to do so.

You keep missing the point that it shouldn’t be inconvenient for the customers in this situation. Or if you’re not missing that point, you keep ignoring it.

As I said. You are clearly incapable of understanding. You don’t care about the current situation. You have said as such.

I can only say that I look forward to the day they hit something you do truly care about. Because maybe on that day you’ll be able to understand.

~

CETheLucid.3964:

I find the community response to this a wee bit over the top though.

It’s not for nothing and they’ve explained they’re trying to get resources into more vital areas of the game VS legendary weps.

That’s not an unreasonable trade off for most people. But I mean if you’re hardcore into legendary weps, I’m sorry for your loss.

CETheLucid.3964:

They just aren’t that big a deal to me. But if I’m in the minority with that, excuse my plebe opinions and continue in your completely justified anger.

CETheLucid.3964:

Legendary weapons aren’t that big a deal to me. But I can better understand your feelings if they were very important to you.

You should do what you feel is right.

Yeah, I’m a real monster I am. No empathy at all.

Spira.4578:

Ranael.6423:

Not really. What it comes to is:
Did we pay for the services that they were promoting? yes
Did they deliver the services they were promoting? no.
There’s no excuse and no explanation that would change this fact.

Whether its a physical product or a service, as a provider, you set standards that people expect you to live up to. if you dont, they have the right to call you out for it.

the term Service Level Agreement comes to mind, for instance.

Ranael.6423:

Ashen.2907:

Desiring a refund for a product that fails to meet consumer expectations by not delivering advertised features has little (or no) bearing on a willingness to lose a previously paid for product, without refund, that did meet the consumer’s epectations.

If I purchase a computer from a company and it delivers on advertised features. I am satisfied. If a year later I purchase a RAM upgrade listed at 8gb, but what is provided is only 4gb I might very well want my money back for the upgrade without losing the entire computer.

I am no lawyer and hence may be wrong but I think that what we bought is access to a service. When you click the “accept” button you sign a contract where you say " take my money so that I can log in the game" and Anet say " I take your money and grant you access to the game server, so long you behave properly. And since it is our product we have all rights to do any change we want".

We don’t really pay for features and somehow I doubt the legislation on games would change because what you buy is no material.

I just want to raise this point because I think it is ok to be kittened by the news and to express disappointment or whatever feeling but the discussion won’t go far if people try to overthink the situation to end up with arguments that they are robbers or incompetent people.
I don’t think we have any right to discuss company organisation, we can only comment if we like the product or not. Hell I hope nobody here feels he can teach me my job. Unless you own your video game company, I think you lack too much knowledge to comment on how the company is managed, how easy or not it is to implement feature A or B. We are customers, players, end users… so we should stick to comments about the end product : do we like what we have? Do we like the direction? Why… but pulling the discussion further than this (like “NCsfot decided this” or “they have money trouble” or “I’m sure they fired Colin”) is not bringing it anywhere.
I mean, I like french fries but it doesn’t give me the right to teach farmers how they should grow potatoes.

In the present case, they acknowledge they broke a promise about implementing 16 legendaries and apologize for it. From this point we can say that we don’t care or that we actually do and then explain why. The reason can totally be “I feel cheated”, “it spoils the game for me, I quit”, “I won’t trust your promises anymore and won’t pre order next expansion”… all of this is fine. But more than that is pure speculations and trap ourselves in thought circles where we get even more upset just by restating the same speculations over and over again.
And to finish about those who say they are too silent : what should they say now? The game director come and say he scrapped a feature that was promised, that he is sorry and that he understands we are upset. Now what, because one guy says it is robbery or calls the entire company incompetent, does anyone reasonably think he will post again and say " yeah whip me, I am bad, I do bad things since ten years and you all buy these…. I have no clue how to develop game and all I want is your money so that I can retire on a desert island "

The difference between a service and a product is not as cut and dried as you might believe.

Most of what you posted doesnt relate to my post which you quoted, but one point I would like to raise is in reference to your comment about how, “they apologize(d) for it.”

When did they apologize for ceasing legendary development? Not in this thread. Giving your reasos for taking an action, justifying your actions, explaining your action, none of these are an apology.

CETheLucid.3964:

Yeah, I’m a real monster I am. No empathy at all.

Except the way you phrase things and the things you have said aside of those quotes show that your…“empathy” is more in the line of “apathy”. You don’t care and a lot of your comments show that, because they come off as uncaring.

You can say “sorry for your loss” all you want. The rest of your posts show that you don’t actually mean that, or if you do, you mean it in a very limp manner where, again, you don’t care.

You also keep making snide remarks about the “more passionate people” as you call them.

But yeah, you’re totally over brimming with empathy. You’re such a caring fellow.

Not completing work already paid for because too busy working on next payday?
Saywhaaa

Gene Archer.8560:

CETheLucid.3964:

Yeah, I’m a real monster I am. No empathy at all.

Except the way you phrase things and the things you have said aside of those quotes show that your…“empathy” is more in the line of “apathy”. You don’t care and a lot of your comments show that, because they come off as uncaring.

You can say “sorry for your loss” all you want. The rest of your posts show that you don’t actually mean that, or if you do, you mean it in a very limp manner where, again, you don’t care.

You also keep making snide remarks about the “more passionate people” as you call them.

But yeah, you’re totally over brimming with empathy. You’re such a caring fellow.

I’ll be sure to send my papers to the enthusiasm police for your sake.

But did you actually have anything to say that isn’t an attempt to dehumanize me to discredit what I might have to say?

Or do we just strongly disagree with one and other and you just had to get that out there? Because I read you, loud and clear buddy.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ranael.6423:

I am no lawyer and hence may be wrong but I think that what we bought is access to a service. When you click the “accept” button you sign a contract where you say " take my money so that I can log in the game" and Anet say " I take your money and grant you access to the game server, so long you behave properly. And since it is our product we have all rights to do any change we want".

We don’t really pay for features and somehow I doubt the legislation on games would change because what you buy is no material.

I just want to raise this point because I think it is ok to be kittened by the news and to express disappointment or whatever feeling but the discussion won’t go far if people try to overthink the situation to end up with arguments that they are robbers or incompetent people.
"

Im not lawyer either but from what i understand TOS cannot directly conflict state or national laws. They can set their own rules but if a company breaks a law, whatever is stated in the TOS is redundant and becomes irrelevant even if its agreed to.

So saying all features are subject to change would grant them permission to go ahead with pulling legendaries but they would still be liable for the false advertisement of legendaries in HOT if it could be proven that they did indeed mislead customers. Law has actually recently been updated to include digital goods and services in america so saying its not a material is not longer a justification.

CETheLucid.3964:

But did you actually have anything to say that isn’t an attempt to dehumanize me to discredit what I might have to say?

How about this? Regardless of what you may feel about legendaries, you 100% should still be worried about precedents like this. Because next time, it may well be something that you do in fact care about in this game.

I don’t give a toss about legendaries. The only way I’ve ever seen one in my characters’ hands is via the preview option. But I understand what it’s like having content I care about and have paid for being put on “indefinite suspension”.

Whether or not you care about legendaries, you should still care about this, and you shouldn’t be okay with it happening, because shrugging your shoulders at this will only reinforce to ANet that it’s okay to sell things and then not deliver on what they were selling.

Whether or not legendaries specifically being put on indefinite hold affects you, what it means when stuff like that happens does and will affect you.

Finalfreefall.8247:

Morfedel.4165:

Because if people don’t agree with you they are clearly not Just wrong but illogical too. Meanwhile people who agree with you are clearly logical and not governed by emotion.

Cherry picking there, aren’t we.

What, and picking out the part of his argument talking about white knights and ignoring the part where he says people have a right to be upset isn’t cherry picking? Grow up/

Oh, I do think people have a right to be upset. But I wasn’t arguing that. I was arguing that bias swings both ways, and using accusations like fanboys and white knights is nothing more than ad hominem attacks, which is a weak argument from a weak mind that doesn’t do anything about addressing the comment someone makes.

I do think people have a right to be upset. But I highly suspect this is a better choice for the long term health of the game regardless.

As for growing up: another ad hominem attack. Why don’t you try addressing the arguments rather than attacking the arguer?

Killdozer.5731:

Morfedel.4165:

Killdozer.5731:

evilunderling.9265:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

To sum up: they advertised A, they did not provide A, and say they refuse to provide A. Therefore they falsely advertised about A.

Wrong. They did not advertise A, and no reasonable person could argue that they did.

There is a difference between someone selling a box of chocolates that’s half-empty and someone offering to, say, make you a chair and then coming back a while later to apologise and explain that their lathe is broken and they can’t make you a chair right now.

This is the latter, and there is nothing in their advertising that any sane person could argue contradicts that.

You are wrong, as are most white knights as they are charged with emotion and not logic. GW2 is not your girlfriend/wife as much as you want it to be, people have a reason to be upset stop trying to tell them otherwise with blatant BS.

Because if people don’t agree with you they are clearly not Just wrong but illogical too. Meanwhile people who agree with you are clearly logical and not governed by emotion.

Cherry picking there, aren’t we.

I didn’t just write a dissertation telling everyone that they are wrong with zero fact. He self admitted he is a white knight in the very post I responded too. And this is my second post in this thread so thanks for the second half of your paragraph where you delved into fantasy very helpful.

If you want I can make some fantasies up about you as well if you like just let me know!

Snort. Fantasy? So you DIDN’T accuse him of using emotion rather than logic? I imagined that?

You go ahead if you need to, but I quoted precisely what I was referring to, and thus indulged in no fantasy whatsoever. What causes me to shake my heads is when people will attack other people, rather than their arguments, and make cracks like you did, about being emotional rather than logical, with some grand assumption that “If you don’t agree with me, you are emotional, I am logical, you are a white knight/fan boy, and I’m a realist.”

Or something along those lines. Sometimes much ruder. So, yes, I called you out on it. Because you said in your own post precisely what I quoted: no fantasy, no imagination, nada.

Spira.4578:

Morfedel.4165:

Killdozer.5731:

evilunderling.9265:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

To sum up: they advertised A, they did not provide A, and say they refuse to provide A. Therefore they falsely advertised about A.

Wrong. They did not advertise A, and no reasonable person could argue that they did.

There is a difference between someone selling a box of chocolates that’s half-empty and someone offering to, say, make you a chair and then coming back a while later to apologise and explain that their lathe is broken and they can’t make you a chair right now.

This is the latter, and there is nothing in their advertising that any sane person could argue contradicts that.

You are wrong, as are most white knights as they are charged with emotion and not logic. GW2 is not your girlfriend/wife as much as you want it to be, people have a reason to be upset stop trying to tell them otherwise with blatant BS.

Because if people don’t agree with you they are clearly not Just wrong but illogical too. Meanwhile people who agree with you are clearly logical and not governed by emotion.

Cherry picking there, aren’t we.

Actually, if you look at it from a completelly logical point without any emotions put into the matter you pretty much only have to answer 2 questions:
Did you get all of the promoted content?
The answer is no (0).
Did you pay for all of the promoted content?
The answer is yes (1).

So to make 0 a 1 or 1 a 0 you would either have to: Deliver the content or not pay the full price. Only then both answers will be equal.

Any kind of alteration to this logic IS incorrect and looked at subjectively.
You were totaly right when you said that there are people emotionally involved in this matter. Sadly, it is the brown knights – since they still keep defending a company that is willing to break a deal that was already stroke with their customers (who holded up their end of the deal).

Brown knights?

Well, regardless, I’ve admitted in other posts people have a right to be upset. I’ve posted in another thread my speculation, though, that I think the real reason Collin left was that his reach exceeded his grasp, and that he overpromised on things he couldn’t deliver, and now MO is having to deal with it the best way he can, by making some decisions for the long term health of the company, by providing what they CAN provide to the most people it will impact most.

Can I prove it? Of course not. It’s speculation, and we aren’t being told anything. But I don’t think that this decision was made lightly, as MO admitted from his first post that he knew people would be upset. I think he came on with an “oh crap we can’t deliver all this that was promised,” and now he’s doing the best he can with the crap handed to him.

I mean, otherwise, why would they have done this? For kittens and giggles?

And that’s what I’m trying to point out: ANET didn’t LIE! A lie means they intentionally made promises they knew they wouldn’t keep; to me, this strikes of their thinking they could provide things they thought they could provide and realized they can’t, at least not at this time.

So they have to make tough decisions, the kind some people will be upset with but hoping a majority will be happy with in the long run. And I, for one, believing that 16 new legendaries would only impact a very tiny portion of the community, believe that, for the time being, based on the above premise, that this is probably the correct choice.

Frankly, I think they were plagued with a lack of direction, focus, and someone at the helm with a firm grasp of what they could reasonably accomplish. That, combined with some obvious missteps like not providing a free character slot with HoT, originally making Elite Specializations far harder to get, etc, compounded the problem, and now they are trying to get themselves back on a solid foundation.

Again, speculation. But what’s the alternative? Assuming they intentionally lied, just for the heck of it? Some Machiavellian plot to get more orders by promising something they knew they would never deliver on? Frankly, I find that second scenario more unlikely.

So, in a word, I do believe they are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I DO think it’s ok for that segment of the population that bought HoT mostly for the legendaries to be angry, but I’m really not sure there was much that could have been done.

I was a bit harsh with some earlier posts directed at the Legend Hunter crowd, and for that I apologize, but I grow so weary of the toxicity in this community. It seems like there is always someone whining about something, and my own personal opinion has always been “if you don’t like it, just go somewhere else.” I vote with my feet and my wallet. I’ve never got onto a forum to make some dramatic post about my leaving because something sucked. I just left, and started playing something else.

Anyway, I will freely admit one thing: with only 6 devs on the team, I’m not really sure how much more of an impact they could make a team that already has so many more. But, well, again, we don’t see what impact these devs could make, so maybe it will be a good thing. But I think the majority of the community benefit more from more playable content than more legendaries that only a small fraction of the people will get.

Imagine all the rage when they announce that cancelled legendaries in new expansion

Morfedel.4165:

Anyway, I will freely admit one thing: with only 6 devs on the team, I’m not really sure how much more of an impact they could make a team that already has so many more. But, well, again, we don’t see what impact these devs could make, so maybe it will be a good thing.

I wanted to point out that there is a VERY good reason to take those 6 and throw them into making more LW content. (As opposed to 6 random devs, that is.)

If you think about what they’ve been doing for the legendary quests, it really involves working with events, adding/adjusting rewards, creating collections, and making it all come together. In short, these people have EXACTLY the skills needed to help crank out LW content. The legendary process was so slow in part because they weren’t making new content, they were trying to use and slightly modify old content without breaking anything or running into more of the problems that have shown up in the existing legendary quests.

Now, as for the 70 working on the next expansion? Well, yes. I’m sure they could find 6 devs in that group that could do about the same thing. But that group also contains people making maps, working on new systems, designing new creatures, and every other thing that goes into a new expansion. And if you remove those 6 devs, then you create a bottleneck that soon slows down the other parts of the development as well. And that’s assuming that event content creation was all they were doing, they may have other skills also needed to build the expansion.

GW2 has some problems, and ANet is trying to address them. Something had to give for that to happen, and this is the “least harm” approach to it. It’s bad that something had to give, but just about any other choice they could have made would have had worse results in the end. As it is, let’s hope that this is enough of a change and they don’t have to sacrifice more to get things back in order.

And yes, I do believe we’ll see the remaining legendaries someday. The precursor quests may be different than what we have now, but honestly what we have now could use some changes anyway.

Awesome April Fool’s would be saying “it was all April Fool’s” on Friday.

Morfedel.4165:

Brown knights?

Well, regardless, I’ve admitted in other posts people have a right to be upset. I’ve posted in another thread my speculation, though, that I think the real reason Collin left was that his reach exceeded his grasp, and that he overpromised on things he couldn’t deliver, and now MO is having to deal with it the best way he can, by making some decisions for the long term health of the company, by providing what they CAN provide to the most people it will impact most.

Can I prove it? Of course not. It’s speculation, and we aren’t being told anything. But I don’t think that this decision was made lightly, as MO admitted from his first post that he knew people would be upset. I think he came on with an “oh crap we can’t deliver all this that was promised,” and now he’s doing the best he can with the crap handed to him.

I mean, otherwise, why would they have done this? For kittens and giggles?

And that’s what I’m trying to point out: ANET didn’t LIE! A lie means they intentionally made promises they knew they wouldn’t keep; to me, this strikes of their thinking they could provide things they thought they could provide and realized they can’t, at least not at this time.

So they have to make tough decisions, the kind some people will be upset with but hoping a majority will be happy with in the long run. And I, for one, believing that 16 new legendaries would only impact a very tiny portion of the community, believe that, for the time being, based on the above premise, that this is probably the correct choice.

Frankly, I think they were plagued with a lack of direction, focus, and someone at the helm with a firm grasp of what they could reasonably accomplish. That, combined with some obvious missteps like not providing a free character slot with HoT, originally making Elite Specializations far harder to get, etc, compounded the problem, and now they are trying to get themselves back on a solid foundation.

Again, speculation. But what’s the alternative? Assuming they intentionally lied, just for the heck of it? Some Machiavellian plot to get more orders by promising something they knew they would never deliver on? Frankly, I find that second scenario more unlikely.

So, in a word, I do believe they are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I DO think it’s ok for that segment of the population that bought HoT mostly for the legendaries to be angry, but I’m really not sure there was much that could have been done.

I was a bit harsh with some earlier posts directed at the Legend Hunter crowd, and for that I apologize, but I grow so weary of the toxicity in this community. It seems like there is always someone whining about something, and my own personal opinion has always been “if you don’t like it, just go somewhere else.” I vote with my feet and my wallet. I’ve never got onto a forum to make some dramatic post about my leaving because something sucked. I just left, and started playing something else.

Anyway, I will freely admit one thing: with only 6 devs on the team, I’m not really sure how much more of an impact they could make a team that already has so many more. But, well, again, we don’t see what impact these devs could make, so maybe it will be a good thing. But I think the majority of the community benefit more from more playable content than more legendaries that only a small fraction of the people will get.

You are aware that MO was Colin’s boss, right?
You know that it was MO who was controling anet all along- Colin was simply the excited guy who was being used for various promotions ect.

Also, they were working on pre crafting and new legy weapons since 2013. Considering that they KNEW that in 2 years they came up with only 3 of them, it is more than safe to assume that they knew that their development was slow, not just 5 months after release, but 1 year ago as well (so when they were promoting them as a feature of HoT).
I don’t think they canceled the legy dev team now, I think they canceled it way before that, however, it is easier to say that they JUST realized that there’s an onogoing issue (that was present for so long) so they would be able to get excused by a part of the community.
Either way facts still stand:
We paid full price, they didn’t deliver their expansion fully.
We know that, they know that; But they simply won’t admit that.

I get it that you simply left when you felt that the time is right.
However, this is not the same as post-core game features that they added or not to the game.
Before we paid for the core game and got exactly what was promoted.
After that, they kept updating the game, hyping us a few times then canceling those projects, ect. As much as the players were unhappy, they had no right to complain about their money spent on the game because they already got what they paid for – so any additional thing that they got was a bonus. I’m not looking at it as an advantage for the players, because simply put, it is ANET’s job to try and keep their customers happy (so they can spend more money on the game).
Now tho, we paid for the expansion, and didn’t get everything that was promoted. As a matter of fact, what we got was all a big huge mess. Poor class balance, poorly executed WvW changes, missing masteries, missing guild features, cancelation of fractal leaderboards, cancelation of legendary weapons, rushed and clearly cut story as well as rushed guild-content crafting. They promoted 3 biomes in the new 4 of the biggest maps in tyria. While it’s true that we got the 3 biomes in VB (making it a big map), the other 3 were smaller and with only 1 biome. Especially Dragon Stand. I mean, we could go on.. The expansion WAS a mess. The players simply started complaining now, but the issues were present before.
ANET should somehow fix the mess they created, but not by cutting off something their customers already paid for. What or how to do it is not and should never be our preocupation. This is literally their job for which they have people that are apparently getting paid for.

Spira.4578:

Morfedel.4165:

Brown knights?

Well, regardless, I’ve admitted in other posts people have a right to be upset. I’ve posted in another thread my speculation, though, that I think the real reason Collin left was that his reach exceeded his grasp, and that he overpromised on things he couldn’t deliver, and now MO is having to deal with it the best way he can, by making some decisions for the long term health of the company, by providing what they CAN provide to the most people it will impact most.

Can I prove it? Of course not. It’s speculation, and we aren’t being told anything. But I don’t think that this decision was made lightly, as MO admitted from his first post that he knew people would be upset. I think he came on with an “oh crap we can’t deliver all this that was promised,” and now he’s doing the best he can with the crap handed to him.

I mean, otherwise, why would they have done this? For kittens and giggles?

And that’s what I’m trying to point out: ANET didn’t LIE! A lie means they intentionally made promises they knew they wouldn’t keep; to me, this strikes of their thinking they could provide things they thought they could provide and realized they can’t, at least not at this time.

So they have to make tough decisions, the kind some people will be upset with but hoping a majority will be happy with in the long run. And I, for one, believing that 16 new legendaries would only impact a very tiny portion of the community, believe that, for the time being, based on the above premise, that this is probably the correct choice.

Frankly, I think they were plagued with a lack of direction, focus, and someone at the helm with a firm grasp of what they could reasonably accomplish. That, combined with some obvious missteps like not providing a free character slot with HoT, originally making Elite Specializations far harder to get, etc, compounded the problem, and now they are trying to get themselves back on a solid foundation.

Again, speculation. But what’s the alternative? Assuming they intentionally lied, just for the heck of it? Some Machiavellian plot to get more orders by promising something they knew they would never deliver on? Frankly, I find that second scenario more unlikely.

So, in a word, I do believe they are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I DO think it’s ok for that segment of the population that bought HoT mostly for the legendaries to be angry, but I’m really not sure there was much that could have been done.

I was a bit harsh with some earlier posts directed at the Legend Hunter crowd, and for that I apologize, but I grow so weary of the toxicity in this community. It seems like there is always someone whining about something, and my own personal opinion has always been “if you don’t like it, just go somewhere else.” I vote with my feet and my wallet. I’ve never got onto a forum to make some dramatic post about my leaving because something sucked. I just left, and started playing something else.

Anyway, I will freely admit one thing: with only 6 devs on the team, I’m not really sure how much more of an impact they could make a team that already has so many more. But, well, again, we don’t see what impact these devs could make, so maybe it will be a good thing. But I think the majority of the community benefit more from more playable content than more legendaries that only a small fraction of the people will get.

You are aware that MO was Colin’s boss, right?
You know that it was MO who was controling anet all along- Colin was simply the excited guy who was being used for various promotions ect.

Sorry, at work and can’t reply everything right now, but I can reply to this:

go check out the thread about bog otter’s video. We’ve already been discussing this, where several people now have commented on the culture of managers and middlemen: sometimes the upper tier managers don’t know whats going on because the lower tier managers LIE to them. You know, “Oh no, everything’s fine, we just had a brief delay,” etc etc.

Again, we don’t know for sure what happened, but people seem to think that upper tier managers know everything going on beneath them, and fact of the matter is, that’s not always true.

Morfedel.4165:

Spira.4578:

Morfedel.4165:

Brown knights?

Well, regardless, I’ve admitted in other posts people have a right to be upset. I’ve posted in another thread my speculation, though, that I think the real reason Collin left was that his reach exceeded his grasp, and that he overpromised on things he couldn’t deliver, and now MO is having to deal with it the best way he can, by making some decisions for the long term health of the company, by providing what they CAN provide to the most people it will impact most.

Can I prove it? Of course not. It’s speculation, and we aren’t being told anything. But I don’t think that this decision was made lightly, as MO admitted from his first post that he knew people would be upset. I think he came on with an “oh crap we can’t deliver all this that was promised,” and now he’s doing the best he can with the crap handed to him.

I mean, otherwise, why would they have done this? For kittens and giggles?

And that’s what I’m trying to point out: ANET didn’t LIE! A lie means they intentionally made promises they knew they wouldn’t keep; to me, this strikes of their thinking they could provide things they thought they could provide and realized they can’t, at least not at this time.

So they have to make tough decisions, the kind some people will be upset with but hoping a majority will be happy with in the long run. And I, for one, believing that 16 new legendaries would only impact a very tiny portion of the community, believe that, for the time being, based on the above premise, that this is probably the correct choice.

Frankly, I think they were plagued with a lack of direction, focus, and someone at the helm with a firm grasp of what they could reasonably accomplish. That, combined with some obvious missteps like not providing a free character slot with HoT, originally making Elite Specializations far harder to get, etc, compounded the problem, and now they are trying to get themselves back on a solid foundation.

Again, speculation. But what’s the alternative? Assuming they intentionally lied, just for the heck of it? Some Machiavellian plot to get more orders by promising something they knew they would never deliver on? Frankly, I find that second scenario more unlikely.

So, in a word, I do believe they are trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I DO think it’s ok for that segment of the population that bought HoT mostly for the legendaries to be angry, but I’m really not sure there was much that could have been done.

I was a bit harsh with some earlier posts directed at the Legend Hunter crowd, and for that I apologize, but I grow so weary of the toxicity in this community. It seems like there is always someone whining about something, and my own personal opinion has always been “if you don’t like it, just go somewhere else.” I vote with my feet and my wallet. I’ve never got onto a forum to make some dramatic post about my leaving because something sucked. I just left, and started playing something else.

Anyway, I will freely admit one thing: with only 6 devs on the team, I’m not really sure how much more of an impact they could make a team that already has so many more. But, well, again, we don’t see what impact these devs could make, so maybe it will be a good thing. But I think the majority of the community benefit more from more playable content than more legendaries that only a small fraction of the people will get.

You are aware that MO was Colin’s boss, right?
You know that it was MO who was controling anet all along- Colin was simply the excited guy who was being used for various promotions ect.

Sorry, at work and can’t reply everything right now, but I can reply to this:

go check out the thread about bog otter’s video. We’ve already been discussing this, where several people now have commented on the culture of managers and middlemen: sometimes the upper tier managers don’t know whats going on because the lower tier managers LIE to them. You know, “Oh no, everything’s fine, we just had a brief delay,” etc etc.

Again, we don’t know for sure what happened, but people seem to think that upper tier managers know everything going on beneath them, and fact of the matter is, that’s not always true.

I have several facts to check with you:
1.
A choice was presented to us via this thread: live content or legendary weapons. But why not both? They sold HoT to us with the promise of both pieces of content. Deliver what you sold to us.

2.
Along that path, Anet has limited resources. Mike says he can’t spare 6 to continue working on legendary weapons (content we paid for) but around 70 are working on content that no one paid for yet.
My main point is that they should prioritize on delivering a product they sold if their resources were spread thin, instead of working on a new one that no real life money has gone into. In regards to the next expansion, here are quotes from Mike:
“My goal now is sustainability: we shouldn’t ever have to sacrifice Live to ship an expansion.’’
Source with information on the 70 working on next expansion:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/
An example for those that are confused about my point: I buy 2 cakes from CakeCo. by pre-purchasing when their cake shop opens. I get 1 cake immediately and was told to wait on the 2nd cake. I wait. A week later, I was told that work on my 2nd cake was put on hold indefinitely but they have enough resources to cook a 3rd cake that I can buy. I don’t want to buy the 3rd cake. I want the 2 cakes that I spent money on already.

3.
Point 3 deals exclusively with Legendary weapon promises. Below is a timeline of the legendary weapon promises and when they were broken. Take special note of the March 2015 Lindsey Murdock Blogpost.
• 2013- New Legendaries are promised. This was before expansions were ever going to be a thing in GW2. They never came.
• 2014- Nothing on the Legendary front.
• January2015- PAX South. HoT Announcement. Colin and Mike take the stage and announce that Legendaries are coming with HoT. These weren’t supposed to be behind a paywall. They were supposed to come out two years prior!
• March 2015- Linsey Murdock Blogpost- “From brainstorming to testing and bug fixing, building everything for a new legendary weapon reasonably takes about a month, not including the art for the weapon. That’s about a week per themed collection and a week for the economics, recipes and other random tasks.”
• August-September 2015- It’s announced that we are getting 3 new legendaries at launch with more to come on regular intervals.
• March 2016- Legendaries are halted indefinitely.

There are several things we are told in this timeline. Also, if Lindsey described it so clearly that making a legendary takes about a month to reach artists stage, these past 4 months, Anet should have maybe 3 or 4 new legendaries, not just the shortbow. I had heard the comment that designing the legendary journey might be holding them back, but Lindsey knew that journey-designing was part of these new legendaries. She STILL gave an estimate of a month before art + testing. Art + effects should be no problem, seeing as how we received multiple new outfits + over 130 gemstore skins. So either her article underestimated the time used for legendaries or Anet had pulled them a long time ago and is just releasing info now.
Regardless, legendary weapons were sold as part of the HoT package. People who paid for HoT already paid for these.
Here is link to Linsey Murdock Blog: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/hot-new-legendary-weapons/

4.
Also, based on what was said to us before, some of the legendaries (or at least skins and effects) already exist. Colin’s seen some of the new legendaries (besides the 3 already released), they were there, and doubts of them not coming out were squashed. The 6-man-team was obviously doing something, are resources so thin that they had to halt indefinitely in the middle of completing their work?
Add this to the Lindsey quote of basically taking a month for a legendary, shouldn’t there be several legendaries being beta-tested at the moment? Why put it off indefinitely it really doesn’t add up. Did Colin just straight up lie?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/40n8gp/state_of_the_game_2016_post/cyvo6mx
“Colin: We’ve said it before – but i’ll reinforce we’re working on more legendary weapons: YES.”
and…
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://dulfy.net/2016/01/08/gw2-jan-8-guild-chat-livestream-notes/
Colin: “I have seen some of the new legendaries, they are amazing”
Keep in mind that the latest quote about the existence of these are in January 8th.

5.
In regards to communication issues and from people wanting to blame Colin, please read this quote.
“Colin:
While as game director I didn’t set communication policy, I am really excited to see the things happening like this AMA. It’ll be a great advantage having Mo in this role as he can both set policy, and game direct simultaneously.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/48zlyd/im_mike_obrien_here_with_gw2_dev_team_ama/d0o6cyn
Between this quote, knowing that Mike was president of Arenanet and boss of Colin, and reading multiple reviews from a website with glass ceilings or something :P, I think it’s fair to say that Mike was not new to this whole situation while it was going on considering they use the word “micromanagement” quite often. Not only was he not new to this situation, he had more control than Colin about the communication situation/state of HoT/shipping content timelines … I mean, he WAS the bigger boss.

wolfman.4358:

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s!

This… is like saying people are not allowed to be sad because others have it worse. It’s also like saying people are not allowed to be happy because others have it better. That’s not how it works, or at least I hope it’s not.

I don’t want to hate on Anet, and so far I haven’t. But this kind of argument is not something I think works well on anyone, especially considering the way it’s delivered. Anet broke a promise they have made, and this is the fallout. That’s what happens to anyone breaking a promise, and I have no doubt they knew that. People are hurt, and disappointed, and some people have spent a considerable amount of money in part because of those new Legendaries. They have the right to be hurt and disappointed.

Yes, you also have the right to disagree. But I think some moderation would make your point far better than exclamation marks and caps.

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

Okay, I’ll just say this:

1.This isn’t like people complaining about having to throw away or vendor green runes and sigils or having to place a permanent gathering tool in the bank for an alt to pick up (speaking of which just stop it already! I mean what does that say about our society?) but it was advertised that for your $50 (keep in mind we bought the product knowing that we were mostly paying for future content in addition to what was launched) that new legendaries would be rolled out in regular (and implied reasonable) intervals.

2.Blizzard has a great infrastructure, support, and WoW is ancient history man and launched when Emo and Scene bands ruled the world. They’re currently working on Overwatch which looks very promising.

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

@Wolfman

We are complaining that content we paid for is being put out to pasture so Anet can develop their next money maker. They need to deliver the goods they promised. I have no interest in making a legendary the new way but I know players who love it. So once again, it is not about legendaries but about Anet delivering on what they have advertised.

Ragnarox.9601:

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

They haven’t rendered 99% of the game world obsolete the way WoW has.

@Wolfman
Actually the only spoiled little brat here is you, since clearly you don’t have any value for the money you spent to buy this game.

Sartharina.3542:

Ragnarox.9601:

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

They haven’t rendered 99% of the game world obsolete the way WoW has.

Elites…Hello!

Don’t compare world best mmo to this game, compare this with Tera or Aion or Rift.

Sartharina.3542:

They haven’t rendered 99% of the game world obsolete the way WoW has.

You’re right. 98% is so much better.

Sartharina.3542:

They haven’t rendered 99% of the game world obsolete the way WoW has.

but they kind of did this to all of their content?
Dungeons – not run anymore
fractals – destroyed
WvW – not played anymore

It’s also the first MMO that I see that made their own newest expansion maps obsolete (with the small exception of metas).

@ Wolfman.4358

Expecting people to refrain from reacting emotionally to news about “their” game of choice is a bit much. Your own reaction to their reaction is emotional.

I prefer a more dispassionate approach to reading forums. So, I filter out hyperbole and focus instead on trying to figure out what’s really going on. The primary issues as I see them are that people are complaining about a decision, and that that decision has cost ANet trust.

Ragnarox.9601:

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

Does that mean you think WoW is better than GW2? If so, why aren’t you playing that instead?

Morfedel.4165:

Ragnarox.9601:

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

Does that mean you think WoW is better than GW2? If so, why aren’t you playing that instead?

Wow it’ s way better than gw2. Still milions of people play wow nowadays.

Can you say the same of gw2 ?^ Yes sure desert borderlands are the evidence.

That guy wrote right : Compare gw2 to Tera or Rift. Not with WoW.

WoW is on another level compared to gw2.