Guild Wars 2

All the kitten Vitriol.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nike.2631:

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Gem buying suspended indefinitely? Gonna happen. A lot.

Pre-order for ex-pac 2 given the sharpest scrutiny with every single bullet point being something that might get ‘suspended indefinitely’? Gonna happen. A lot.

The butcher’s bill for this decision is in the far off future… and they’re gambling that they can win people back or that it’ll be forgotten before then… but its still a huge gamble and one that could very well gut their revenue when those 70 Ex-pac Devs finally do put down their pencils and hand in their work.

^

Considering how people to this day bring up the Manifesto, a 6 year old document made 2 years before the game launched, and throw it in ANet’s face for failure to keep promises, people will remember this for years to come. It’s going to be brought up with every promise they make and every expansion they sell. It’s one of those economic decisions that is penny wise and dollar foolish as it’s likely to cost them dollars in gems, real money and good will for every penny they save by putting Legendaries on “eventually.”

Too be fair, MO used the manifesto and threw it in our face first, so I guess it would be hypocritical if he would use part of the manifesto to excuse his action, while ignoring another.

Spira.4578:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Nike.2631:

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Gem buying suspended indefinitely? Gonna happen. A lot.

Pre-order for ex-pac 2 given the sharpest scrutiny with every single bullet point being something that might get ‘suspended indefinitely’? Gonna happen. A lot.

The butcher’s bill for this decision is in the far off future… and they’re gambling that they can win people back or that it’ll be forgotten before then… but its still a huge gamble and one that could very well gut their revenue when those 70 Ex-pac Devs finally do put down their pencils and hand in their work.

^

Considering how people to this day bring up the Manifesto, a 6 year old document made 2 years before the game launched, and throw it in ANet’s face for failure to keep promises, people will remember this for years to come. It’s going to be brought up with every promise they make and every expansion they sell. It’s one of those economic decisions that is penny wise and dollar foolish as it’s likely to cost them dollars in gems, real money and good will for every penny they save by putting Legendaries on “eventually.”

Too be fair, MO used the manifesto and threw it in our face first, so I guess it would be hypocritical if he would use part of the manifesto to excuse his action, while ignoring another.

I wasn’t referring to his mention of it this time and people’s responses, but all the threads and posts that have spontaneously come up about it over the years.

Spira.4578:

Too be fair, MO used the manifesto and threw it in our face first, so I guess it would be hypocritical if he would use part of the manifesto to excuse his action, while ignoring another.

To be fair, it wouldn’t have been a manifesto if they’d actually expected you to read it and try to hold them to it.

evilunderling.9265:

Spira.4578:

Too be fair, MO used the manifesto and threw it in our face first, so I guess it would be hypocritical if he would use part of the manifesto to excuse his action, while ignoring another.

To be fair, it wouldn’t have been a manifesto if they’d actually expected you to read it and try to hold them to it.

What I was trying to say is – if they expect us to follow it, they should as well.

Celtic Lady.3729:

It really isn’t for you to say how much value is appropriate for players to place on their accounts.

Well, that’s my opinion on that mater. That’s how I feel about it. You’re free to disagree. I figured we’ve established that by now?

Celtic Lady.3729:

Most people value things they’ve spent money on and significant time on. This isn’t unusual or inappropriate.

To such a degree as to be willing to suffer under people they find treacherous and dishonest?

Where do you draw the line?

I mean someone who’s going to put up with that kind of dichotomy must really love this game.

Like… to a disturbing degree. That, or their words here don’t line up with their actual feelings on the issue.

CETheLucid.3964:

To such a degree as to be willing to suffer under people they find treacherous and dishonest?

I don’t understand why you keep parroting this phrase? Is it supposed to mean something? Or is it just to add drama?

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Losing current business and future returning customers/new customers: very likely.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

It’s been 5 months and they still aren’t finished. They’re still hardly more than what was promised on the box. How long do you recommend that people wait before buying the expansion? A year? Not until all the Legendaries are done?

If you are buying is for a feature that is not added/finished you wait till its there.

That’s easy to suggest. However that is also suggesting that all people who might one day want one of the new Legendaries not buy this expansion for however months, or years, until it’s in game. That means they will be left in vanilla until that time and missing all the new content and living story that comes with it. That also assumes that people would have a reason to believe back then that something advertised for that expansion would be put on hold.

While some people might be expecting that advertised content will be withheld or be willing to sit in Vanilla for however many years it takes, most people did not have that expectation. Therefore a suggestion that this expansion should not have been bought is not a reasonable one.

As I said if you are buying something on the strength of something that is not there you wait. If there are many things you want then get it now. But when people say “I got the expansion only for the legendary weapons” I have no sympathy. I don’t think what ANet has done is right. But people have no one to blame but them self’s why the paid for something that wasn’t there to start with.

Maybe it’s different where you live, but where I’m from I can buy a package of items in which some are not quite available and expect them to be delivered when done. If there is a reason that the company can’t deliver the items, I get a refund of the money that paid for it. It’s not a usual practice in most companies that they’ll take your money, not deliver the goods and then also not give a refund of money paid.

I’m sorry you live in a society with such weak consumer protections and therefore this is common place to you, but it’s not the type of treatment by a company that I’m used to and therefore I didn’t anticipate needing to not buy ahead of time.

You are talking about a whole product, not a digital one. As I said I don’t agree with what ANet did,

Actually, no. A product can be a package of goods sold that are of different parts and not all of those parts may be immediately available for various reasons. As long as you’ve paid for it, you should have the expectation that all parts of your purchase get to you, or you are refunded for the parts that don’t.

“not a digital one”
Are you saying here that digital purchases are outside all consumer protection laws? I know some are by the way they’re phrased and set up. However if a company sells a digital product, such as an expansion, with items in it that are advertised parts of that expansion then they should be regulated by consumer protection laws and required either to provide all parts of the advertised expansion or if they can’t they should offer a reasonable, partial refund to all purchasers.

There’s no reason for a company that takes your money and doesn’t provide what was advertised and purchased to be above consumer protection laws, digital or not.

And when ANet turns around as says they are not going to provide legendary weapons everything you are saying will be correct. Yes they will be in violation of consumer law. As it stands they are not.

People can say it’s cancelled till they are blue in the face. ANet have not stated that they are cancelled. As I’ve said I do not agree with what they have done. But they have not broken any laws, there could be a case for false advertising. As they are going against the groups of, and regular intervals.

But I do feel.ANet need to make it right.

It’s a shame that doesn’t work in other area’s of life huh?

“Hey IRD and local council. I’m indefinitely suspending paying my taxes and council rates. I’m not “not paying” them, just suspending paying them for an indeterminate period of time, but I will pay at some point. "

Based on this premise ANet couyld have shipped absolutely nothing and claimed, “well it’s coming at some stage – we never specified an exact time.”

CETheLucid.3964:

I’m not a fan of repeating myself ad nauseum.

That said if you can recognize what I’ve said, it follows you can read. You’ve followed what I’ve said thus far.

It’s not hard to figure out what I’m getting at with what I said based on what I said earlier. You’re the same one who said we should drop our conversation, only to reignite it again.

As far as personal attacks go, you’re the same character who supposes I’m drunk and can’t communicate with people. Tit for tat with that I guess?

I was being more cheeky than I was actually trying to insult your intelligence, but if you’ve taken offense, I apologize.

But you’ll type the same hyperbolic phrase ad nauseum…okay.

Again, you resort to insulting my intelligence, which actually just makes your own look bad…

Like I said previously, your favorite little phrase isn’t actually communicating anything other than you trying to make players that want the content they paid for seem overly emotional, even though you’re the only one of us throwing around soap-opera-like words, such as “suffer” and “treacherous.” lol

Siobhan.5273:

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Losing current business and future returning customers/new customers: very likely.

They must have made that calculation and decided it was worth it. Lose a relatively small number of players to keep or gain a larger number of other players. They are not stupid.

Legal action will not succeed. They will tie you up in knots for years and in the unlikely event that you look like winning they will make an out of court settlement to compensate you for the 5% of the game that they did not deliver and in return you will sign a disclaimer, hand over your first born child, your soul and your pride and they will give you the $3 they owe you. You can collect it in person from their Alaska office between 9am and 10am any Tuesday. It’s not right but that is how it is.

And who is going to allow a chargeback on something you have been using for 6 months?

Celtic Lady.3729:

(snip)

I wouldn’t respond to him any further if I were you. He’s not posting in order to honestly debate the issue or try to understand. He’s only posting to try to get a reaction. Like all people who do this, the best response is to ignore. You know what they say to not feed on the internet? Answering is feeding and not advised.

I’m sure the devs themselves wanted to put out new legendaries but there are decisions that are outside of their control.

I want lion and elephant themed legendaries. It’s nice we’re getting something tiger themed but I already have a legendary shortbow.

DoctorDing.5890:

Siobhan.5273:

DoctorDing.5890:

Legal challenge: not going to happen. Everyone is an armchair law expert. Most of them are wrong.

Refund: also not going to happen unless you bought the game very recently. Even then, good luck.

If you believe anything else then, frankly, you are dreaming.

Losing current business and future returning customers/new customers: very likely.

They must have made that calculation and decided it was worth it. Lose a relatively small number of players to keep or gain a larger number of other players. They are not stupid.

Legal action will not succeed. They will tie you up in knots for years and in the unlikely event that you look like winning they will make an out of court settlement to compensate you for the 5% of the game that they did not deliver and in return you will sign a disclaimer, hand over your first born child, your soul and your pride and they will give you the $3 they owe you. You can collect it in person from their Alaska office between 9am and 10am any Tuesday. It’s not right but that is how it is.

And who is going to allow a chargeback on something you have been using for 6 months?

Actually in 2015 there was a law that came in action taht pretty much made it easier to deal with this kind of cases (it resolves the problem before getting to court)

MashMash.1645:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

BrotherBelial.3094:

What makes me laugh is everyone is surprised by the silence from ANet. Remember the whole HoT price and no character slot for people who already had HoT? ANet said nothing for a week before they made things “right”. Give it a week and maybe they’ll have something for us.

My other advice, is never buy anything on the strength of something that is not, finished/ready to go/started work on. We knew when we got HoT that legendary weapons where not ready or all finished.

It’s been 5 months and they still aren’t finished. They’re still hardly more than what was promised on the box. How long do you recommend that people wait before buying the expansion? A year? Not until all the Legendaries are done?

If you are buying is for a feature that is not added/finished you wait till its there.

That’s easy to suggest. However that is also suggesting that all people who might one day want one of the new Legendaries not buy this expansion for however months, or years, until it’s in game. That means they will be left in vanilla until that time and missing all the new content and living story that comes with it. That also assumes that people would have a reason to believe back then that something advertised for that expansion would be put on hold.

While some people might be expecting that advertised content will be withheld or be willing to sit in Vanilla for however many years it takes, most people did not have that expectation. Therefore a suggestion that this expansion should not have been bought is not a reasonable one.

As I said if you are buying something on the strength of something that is not there you wait. If there are many things you want then get it now. But when people say “I got the expansion only for the legendary weapons” I have no sympathy. I don’t think what ANet has done is right. But people have no one to blame but them self’s why the paid for something that wasn’t there to start with.

Maybe it’s different where you live, but where I’m from I can buy a package of items in which some are not quite available and expect them to be delivered when done. If there is a reason that the company can’t deliver the items, I get a refund of the money that paid for it. It’s not a usual practice in most companies that they’ll take your money, not deliver the goods and then also not give a refund of money paid.

I’m sorry you live in a society with such weak consumer protections and therefore this is common place to you, but it’s not the type of treatment by a company that I’m used to and therefore I didn’t anticipate needing to not buy ahead of time.

You are talking about a whole product, not a digital one. As I said I don’t agree with what ANet did,

Actually, no. A product can be a package of goods sold that are of different parts and not all of those parts may be immediately available for various reasons. As long as you’ve paid for it, you should have the expectation that all parts of your purchase get to you, or you are refunded for the parts that don’t.

“not a digital one”
Are you saying here that digital purchases are outside all consumer protection laws? I know some are by the way they’re phrased and set up. However if a company sells a digital product, such as an expansion, with items in it that are advertised parts of that expansion then they should be regulated by consumer protection laws and required either to provide all parts of the advertised expansion or if they can’t they should offer a reasonable, partial refund to all purchasers.

There’s no reason for a company that takes your money and doesn’t provide what was advertised and purchased to be above consumer protection laws, digital or not.

And when ANet turns around as says they are not going to provide legendary weapons everything you are saying will be correct. Yes they will be in violation of consumer law. As it stands they are not.

People can say it’s cancelled till they are blue in the face. ANet have not stated that they are cancelled. As I’ve said I do not agree with what they have done. But they have not broken any laws, there could be a case for false advertising. As they are going against the groups of, and regular intervals.

But I do feel.ANet need to make it right.

It’s a shame that doesn’t work in other area’s of life huh?

“Hey IRD and local council. I’m indefinitely suspending paying my taxes and council rates. I’m not “not paying” them, just suspending paying them for an indeterminate period of time, but I will pay at some point. "

Based on this premise ANet couyld have shipped absolutely nothing and claimed, “well it’s coming at some stage – we never specified an exact time.”

Lol what? Nothing you just said makes any sense. ANet was very clear with what would be in HoT at launch and what would not. So say they couldn’t have just said, it’s coming at some point. It would have been refund city.

And using taxes and council tax as an analogy is just silly. You have to pay them because there is no way you could live your life and not used a service, or benefit from a service that the payments cover.

But hay, you keep clutching at thing air. Sooner or later you’ll say something that might hold some water.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Celtic Lady.3729:

(snip)

I wouldn’t respond to him any further if I were you. He’s not posting in order to honestly debate the issue or try to understand. He’s only posting to try to get a reaction. Like all people who do this, the best response is to ignore. You know what they say to not feed on the internet? Answering is feeding and not advised.

lol You’re absolutely right. I HAVE been feeding the troll for far too long now. But I’ve enjoyed myself and that’s something, at least.

No doubt. But like Spira said, he’s derailing the thread so that there’s reason for a moderator to close it

I kind of wish they would close it. There hasn’t been any new argument from either side for 20 pages.

20 pages? That many? Although, sometimes it’s not just about the arguments. Sometimes, it’s about simple expression of opinion and keeping something up front for exposure.

I know legendary weapons is what sparked the issue, but really for me it could have been something else entirely. It’s more about delivering paid content in full than legendary weapons specifically. I guess I’m still hoping they decide to alter their decision. It could happen, I figure. I’ve seen them do so in the past.

DoctorDing.5890:

They must have made that calculation and decided it was worth it.

They’ve made a lot of such calculations over the years. And the population keeps shrinking, so i guess maybe they aren’t that good at those calculations at all. One of the main reasons for that is that they have shown time and time again, that they just can’t predict player reactions at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought that all of it will just blow over before the end of weekend.

mtpelion.4562:

Per the terms and conditions of your transaction, you were entitled to receive “as is” access to the game server. They did not fail to deliver on that.

the “buy HoT” is the page that I’ve sent in to UK Trading standards. That answer was directly from them. Under UK law UK citizens have the right to claim for refund.

Mirta.5029:

mtpelion.4562:

Per the terms and conditions of your transaction, you were entitled to receive “as is” access to the game server. They did not fail to deliver on that.

the “buy HoT” is the page that I’ve sent in to UK Trading standards. That answer was directly from them. Under UK law UK citizens have the right to claim for refund.

However, under ANet’s terms of a refund, that means account closure. Which isn’t what most people want.

While I can’t speak for others, what I would like is one of 4 things.
1) reversal of this decision
2) if not reversal then tell us how long. What are the outer boundaries of “eventually”
3) rework the Legendaries so that they fall under the old system of the first set so that we can at least get these new Legendaries. The set afterwards can be done with precursor crafting, as it sounds like it’s too difficult to attempt now.
4) if ANet can’t reverse it, rework it and can’t give a date of restarting this project, then they should consider giving some sort of small refund, gems if need be, to all purchasers of the expansion.

I’d be happy enough with option 2 or 3 and I suspect others would be also happy with one or the other.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

However, under ANet’s terms of a refund, that means account closure. Which isn’t what most people want.

While I can’t speak for others, what I would like is one of 4 things.
1) reversal of this decision
2) if not reversal then tell us how long. What are the outer boundaries of “eventually”
3) rework the Legendaries do that they fall under the old system of the first set so that we can at least get these new Legendaries. The set afterwards can be done with precursor crafting, as it sounds like it’s too difficult to attempt now.
4) if ANet can’t reverse it, rework it and can’t give a date of restarting this project, then they should consider giving some sort of small refund, gems if need be, to all purchasers of the expansion.

I’d be happy enough with option 2 or 3 and I suspect others would be also happy with one or the other.

Any one of Flesh Wound-Senpai’s suggestions sounds extremely reasonable and would probably get me to maybe theoretically possibly consider spending money again

Ragnarox.9601:

Sartharina.3542:

Ragnarox.9601:

wolfman.4358:

Everybody here who is complaining about legendries….. Seriously get a life! I recently returned to GW2 after taking a break and trying the new WoD… The fact is as follows…

Anet treats it’s customers a million times better than most MMO’s! No subscription fee required! Game quality is far above ANYTHING out there! In WoW you pay a subscription and are CONTINUALLY given crap for product! Then you get to watch as Blizzard comes out with new PHONE APPS!!! WTF???

So if the devs making new legendries gets your panties in a knot… I say again… GET A LIFE YOU SPOILED LITTLE BRATS!!!

So tell me one thing that Anet treats us better than WoW? Don’t tell me subscription cause this game do not deserve sub.

They haven’t rendered 99% of the game world obsolete the way WoW has.

Elites…Hello!

Don’t compare world best mmo to this game, compare this with Tera or Aion or Rift.

I’ve not even played those games. But I have played WoW. And that game sent me running back here because it’s kittening awful.

Elite specializations haven’t rendered the rest of the game obsolete, even if they’re currently more powerful than the baseline. Even with elites, everyone still has two more trait lines. There are still dozens if not hundreds of players at any given time scattered throughout the game world, from Metrica Province to Fireheart Rise, playing and enjoying the content at all levels of the game. In WoW? Anywhere that isn’t the godkitten Garrison waiting for Raid is a completely empty. And don’t even get me started on the competitive nature of PvE in that game (And not even in the friendly sense of PvP rivalry. The “This person is an active threat to my progress” bullkitten). Also – its combat is painfully tedious and boring.

And I feel sorry for anyone who wasted their time in WoW making Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker, knowing that such a ‘legendary’ blade is more pathetic than trash drops.

Guild Wars 2 has 23 legendary weapons. WoW has none. Next expansion WoW will have 3 legendary weapons for each class – but the expansion after that, back to none.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Mirta.5029:

mtpelion.4562:

Per the terms and conditions of your transaction, you were entitled to receive “as is” access to the game server. They did not fail to deliver on that.

the “buy HoT” is the page that I’ve sent in to UK Trading standards. That answer was directly from them. Under UK law UK citizens have the right to claim for refund.

However, under ANet’s terms of a refund, that means account closure. Which isn’t what most people want.

While I can’t speak for others, what I would like is one of 4 things.
1) reversal of this decision
2) if not reversal then tell us how long. What are the outer boundaries of “eventually”
3) rework the Legendaries so that they fall under the old system of the first set so that we can at least get these new Legendaries. The set afterwards can be done with precursor crafting, as it sounds like it’s too difficult to attempt now.
4) if ANet can’t reverse it, rework it and can’t give a date of restarting this project, then they should consider giving some sort of small refund, gems if need be, to all purchasers of the expansion.

I’d be happy enough with option 2 or 3 and I suspect others would be also happy with one or the other.

This seems to me to be an extremely reasonable approach. I hope for #1, but #4 would also mean something if it involved an apology rather than an attitude of excuses or justification.

Honestly, even if they gave a timeframe for when they are going to revisit the legendarys, it would assuage the majority of my anger.

Yes…they charge us money for the gliders so it is a source of income, that’s great. But we did get charged for those 16 legendary weapons as well. Maybe they should cut down on the number of cash shop glider skins that are released every few weeks, and still be able to give us what we already paid for?

Yes, because logic says the team working on legendary weapons was clearly assigned to the team working on gemstore releases. Seriously, why couldnt you just post in one of the other 90347650293847502938475029384750293847502934857023984567 threads about this topic?

The teams are separate bruh, which means if the gemstore guys create new stuff it has nothing to do with development on the game. Plus, Anet’s a business. Gotta make money some how.

Hmmm…

Step 1) Put living story content on the back burner for ~1 year in order to develop the HoT expansion.
Step 2) Make the player-base pay for the HoT expansion to gain access to new features.
Step 3) Cut HoT features in order to refocus energy on living story content.
Step 4) Profit.

It’s almost as if ANet simply delayed all content additions for a year just to charge extra for it.

Let’s not forget our gemstore purchases are the equivalent of subscriptions; heck, it’s been much more costly for me playing GW2 than other sub-based MMOs. I could only dream of paying $15 a month to have the opportunity to acquire all released content. That would be quite a deal.

I’m really hoping they’ll suspend living content again to work on another expansion, then try to sell it to us. It would be pretty amusing.

Unlike some doomsayers, I think ArenaNet will do just fine. Some people, like me, will pony up no matter what.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, shame on me…

Serenity.6149:

I’m really hoping they’ll suspend living content again to work on another expansion, then try to sell it to us. It would be pretty amusing.

Unlike some doomsayers, I think ArenaNet will do just fine. Some people, like me, will pony up no matter what.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice, shame on me…

Yeah, Guild wars was not as popular as some MMO’s at the time. You’d see people saying the game was dead right off the bat. But there was enough people to keep the game going, and enough people to warrant them making GW2. Sure not everyone who played GW plays GW2. I have a guild that died out before the first year. It was made up of all the people I was friends with in GW1. They all left when TOR came out one or two came back but most just stopped playing games all together. While that was a bad thing to me. I didn’t think the game was doomed. I still don’t. I’ve never always agreed with ANet. They have made changes and done things I’ve not been happy with even in GW1. But I think there will always been enough people to keep the game alive.

Morfedel.4165:

Killdozer.5731:

Morfedel.4165:

Killdozer.5731:

evilunderling.9265:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

To sum up: they advertised A, they did not provide A, and say they refuse to provide A. Therefore they falsely advertised about A.

Wrong. They did not advertise A, and no reasonable person could argue that they did.

There is a difference between someone selling a box of chocolates that’s half-empty and someone offering to, say, make you a chair and then coming back a while later to apologise and explain that their lathe is broken and they can’t make you a chair right now.

This is the latter, and there is nothing in their advertising that any sane person could argue contradicts that.

You are wrong, as are most white knights as they are charged with emotion and not logic. GW2 is not your girlfriend/wife as much as you want it to be, people have a reason to be upset stop trying to tell them otherwise with blatant BS.

Because if people don’t agree with you they are clearly not Just wrong but illogical too. Meanwhile people who agree with you are clearly logical and not governed by emotion.

Cherry picking there, aren’t we.

I didn’t just write a dissertation telling everyone that they are wrong with zero fact. He self admitted he is a white knight in the very post I responded too. And this is my second post in this thread so thanks for the second half of your paragraph where you delved into fantasy very helpful.

If you want I can make some fantasies up about you as well if you like just let me know!

Snort. Fantasy? So you DIDN’T accuse him of using emotion rather than logic? I imagined that?

You go ahead if you need to, but I quoted precisely what I was referring to, and thus indulged in no fantasy whatsoever. What causes me to shake my heads is when people will attack other people, rather than their arguments, and make cracks like you did, about being emotional rather than logical, with some grand assumption that “If you don’t agree with me, you are emotional, I am logical, you are a white knight/fan boy, and I’m a realist.”

Or something along those lines. Sometimes much ruder. So, yes, I called you out on it. Because you said in your own post precisely what I quoted: no fantasy, no imagination, nada.

Not going to even bother replying to this nonsense as it didn’t sink in the first time when 5 other posters called you on your BS. Have fun in fantasy land.

New gliders only require someone to create the model (basically a 3D drawing) and apply it to the existing object. It’s something a single artist can do all on their own.

(As an example of just how easy it is making a new skin for an existing object is often the very first tutorial people will do when learning to make mods for a game.)

According to Mike’s announcement it wasn’t making the skins for new legendaries that was holding them up – meaning it’s not something that one artist could have done instead of making a glider.

It was coming up with the collection – which is a whole series of activities and crafted objects that need achievements linked to them – which was taking the time. Which isn’t surprising when you consider that all of those needs to be unique – not things already used for a legendary collection, whilst also being equally difficult or expensive. And they need to reflect multiple areas of the game, and be connected to the theme of the weapon in some way.

It’s a lot to do and it’s not hard at all to imagine that every time someone came up with an idea someone else came up with a reason it couldn’t work and they were back to step 1.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Mirta.5029:

mtpelion.4562:

Per the terms and conditions of your transaction, you were entitled to receive “as is” access to the game server. They did not fail to deliver on that.

the “buy HoT” is the page that I’ve sent in to UK Trading standards. That answer was directly from them. Under UK law UK citizens have the right to claim for refund.

However, under ANet’s terms of a refund, that means account closure. Which isn’t what most people want.

While I can’t speak for others, what I would like is one of 4 things.
1) reversal of this decision
2) if not reversal then tell us how long. What are the outer boundaries of “eventually”
3) rework the Legendaries so that they fall under the old system of the first set so that we can at least get these new Legendaries. The set afterwards can be done with precursor crafting, as it sounds like it’s too difficult to attempt now.
4) if ANet can’t reverse it, rework it and can’t give a date of restarting this project, then they should consider giving some sort of small refund, gems if need be, to all purchasers of the expansion.

I’d be happy enough with option 2 or 3 and I suspect others would be also happy with one or the other.

I think option 3 would be their best bet at this point. Precursor crafting is something Anet still needs to deliver eventually, but players seem more concerned with just getting the weapons themselves added. Put the crafting/journey part on hold until they can rework a simplified version of it that is more manageable for the team to create.

This gives players what matters the most in a shorter time frame, and would be a showing of good faith on Anet’s part to deliver the journey in some smaller form instead of halting the entire project.

I am sorry in advance, this is going to be a bit of a rant.

In the last several months I have been defending Heart of Thorns on these forums from what I perceived (and still do) to be to a large extent unwarranted hate. It was from the off-set clear that HoT would be a feature rich expansion that’s relatively light on content and for that reason I was more interested in the quality of what’s in the expansion, hoping that after building the base for it the quantity would follow. And to a large extent I feel HoT succeeded – masteries might not have been implemented perfectly but they have a lot of potential, elite specs are cool, raids are pretty good and the map metas, while all on timers, are fun. So I waited.

Six months later, the only new stuff we got are two raid wings. People started hating on raids because we got nothing else in the meantime (completely understandable), but I’d rather wait longer and get really good content than wait less and get another Mordrem invasion piece of kitty. I decided to pass judgement when we have something to pass judgement on. So I waited.

Then you cancelled legendaries.

Now, I don’t care THAT much about them, although I love the idea of having such a long-term goal. I can also even somewhat justify the decision – I don’t think it’s about the six people being desperately needed in LS (I sincerely doubt they would actually be working on the chapters at this stage), as much as it is about all the resources necessary in addition to those six people (documentation, meetings, QA etc). I sort of get it.

But this isn’t about that, it’s about consumer trust. This isn’t the first time Anet promised something and they didn’t deliver. That’s also fine – priorities change, something that sounds good on paper might not actually work in practice and game development is very fluid. However, Legendaries are a marketed feature of HoT. People bought it on the educated presumption that more Legendaries would come. This isn’t about shifting plans anymore, it’s bordering on false advertising and I would love to hear from someone who’s well versed in legalese if it truly constitutes that. I gave Anet money for something I am not going to receive. It doesn’t matter what part of the community was interested in this, and not even Anet can actually come up with such a metric anyways. If this was marketed as part of the package, it should be in it, regardless! That is unacceptable.

All of this of course has been said probably hundreds of times by hundreds of different people, I know, I just had to vent a little, so here’s the thing:

MO, you feel you need to put the Legendaries on ice? OK, I have little insight into Anet’s inner workings, maybe you are right. For all we know this might be the right decision, kitten do we know about MMO development anyways. What I DO know is business language. I do know what indefinitely means. It means “probably never, but we don’t want to say it”.

I am not saying give us an ETA, that would be ridiculous. But give us something, however vague. MO, what does “indefinitely” mean? Is it going to be until you wrap up a part of LS3? Or after? Before you release the next expansion? After? Keep in mind, those are not specific dates by any stretch! Just confirm if we are going to get this HoT feature before you ship your next expansion! Confirm we are getting it at all!

Indefinitely™ is equal to many many soon™‘s but not as much as never.

I think his choice of words was intended to lower expectations but to leave the door open for them in future. I expect we’ll see legendaries return at some point but not in the near future, and maybe not in the same form as we know them today. I suspect there is already be a vague plan for them but they are keeping their options open for now. The initial wave of rage is already subsiding so they will probably give it a few weeks before they kitten the impact on the footfall in the game. I’m sure they will lose some players but I think some of those players may have been close to being done with the game anyway.

Time will tell I guess.

Let me put it like this – at work they indefinitely suspended Christmas bonuses.

In 2008.

If they have a plan, however vague, they should let us know, that was precisely my point.

As for the rage – that was not the point of my post. As I stated, this is about not delivering a marketed feature of the expansion. The initial rage is of little interest to me.

DoctorDing.5890:

Indefinitely™ is equal to many many soon™‘s but not as much as never.

I think his choice of words was intended to lower expectations but to leave the door open for them in future. I expect we’ll see legendaries return at some point but not in the near future, and maybe not in the same form as we know them today. I suspect there is already be a vague plan for them but they are keeping their options open for now. The initial wave of rage is already subsiding so they will probably give it a few weeks before they kitten the impact on the footfall in the game. I’m sure they will lose some players but I think some of those players may have been close to being done with the game anyway.

Time will tell I guess.

Be real now. Literally EVERYONE know what "indefinitely suspended " really means…
The only reason why you don’t (want to) see it , is because you still believe in ANET.
As a veteran player, I’m pretty much fed up with “we’ll do this, no wait, we’ll do that, no wait, scratch that, we’ll do that instead” – I was fed up before, however, before HoT, whatever we got was a bonus for us players, and a rant, even if expected, didn’t have a big weight on the matter.
In this case tho, we’re talking about features that we literally bought with the expansion. Features that they don’t mind canceling to work on another aspect of the game.
We all know that sacrifices must be made for the greater good. And we all know that ANET has many problems and solving them will take a lot of sacrificing. However, those sacrifices should be made by ANET, not by the customer.

Addition by subtraction seems to be the norm for Anet.

Legendaries suspended….come on guys, suspended is never a good word choice considering their track record of how they push out any type of content. We got 3 almost 4 since they announced new legendaries since 2013!

Now they are reverting WvW back to Alpine BL! That’s an old map content that they were most likely never gonna use again, but this is pretty much saying they screwed up. However, they will update Desert with some fixes to test for the time being? What in the smokes?! Make up your minds, will ya?

Person: Anet, do you have trouble making up your mind?

Anet: Ummm…hmmm…Yes and No?

I think if anet (and Mr. O’Brien) really wanted to make this right, they’d give everyone who bought HoT a full refund, no ifs ands or buts, without taking anything back, and furthermore they’d give HoT to everyone else, free.

I also think it would be good for Mr. O’Brien (and anet) if he hand delivered the refunds in person, so that he could meet the people who trusted anet (and him) to deliver what was advertised (and what they paid for), so that he could look them in the eye as he apologized for doing them wrong, and perhaps at long last finally understand that they are people, and not metrics, or whales, or accounts, or $$$, or whatever other abstract nonsense term he/anet might employ in reference to them.

I don’t think either of those things will happen.

Tachenon.5270:

I think if anet (and Mr. O’Brien) really wanted to make this right, they’d give everyone who bought HoT a full refund, no ifs ands or buts, without taking anything back, and furthermore they’d give HoT to everyone else, free.

I also think it would be good for Mr. O’Brien (and anet) if he hand delivered the refunds in person, so that he could meet the people who trusted anet (and him) to deliver what was advertised (and what they paid for), so that he could look them in the eye as he apologized for doing them wrong, and perhaps at long last finally understand that they are people, and not metrics, or whales, or accounts, or $$$, or whatever other abstract nonsense term he/anet might employ in reference to them.

I don’t think either of those things will happen.

You “think”? Frankly, even though I also do not agree with their decision to indefinitely suspend/cancel legendaries, your suggestions are beyond ridiculous. I assume, for your sake, you were being intentionally melodramatic.

Tachenon.5270:

I think if anet (and Mr. O’Brien) really wanted to make this right, they’d give everyone who bought HoT a full refund, no ifs ands or buts, without taking anything back, and furthermore they’d give HoT to everyone else, free.

I also think it would be good for Mr. O’Brien (and anet) if he hand delivered the refunds in person, so that he could meet the people who trusted anet (and him) to deliver what was advertised (and what they paid for), so that he could look them in the eye as he apologized for doing them wrong, and perhaps at long last finally understand that they are people, and not metrics, or whales, or accounts, or $$$, or whatever other abstract nonsense term he/anet might employ in reference to them.

I don’t think either of those things will happen.

Also they should also be crawling on the floor while apologizing, also they have to buy a pony for EACH person who has HoT, and also a race car bed, and a playstation, and oh, a robot, and… What were we talking about again?

bluemaize.4368:

Person: Anet, do you have trouble making up your mind?

Anet: Ummm…hmmm…Yes and No?

Gee, you’d almost think ANet was more than one person, trying to please a crowd of people with differing opinions.

Now, as for if we’ll ever see the other Legendary weapons: Yes, we will. The art for them wasn’t the hard part, so I’m sure they’re several weapons ahead, if not done with the whole set on the art side. There’s no reason to NOT make a simplified precursor quest and add them in later, they just want to focus on other things first. Maybe while considering what form a simplified (for them, at least) precursor quest should look like.

As for the Alpine/Desert WvW borderlands? Someone at ANet had to (willingly or not) swallow their pride for them to go back to the old maps so soon. They thought they’d have time to make a way to change maps back and forth with little effort, and so they were not really ready to do so. It’s not “flip a switch” easy to do it right now, so it’s a sudden addition of work to the pile. The April update is top priority, and for good reason. It’s not like the need to design a whole new map, though, and I’m sure we’ll see the old map back soon. As for the new one? Well, they’ll either rethink it to attempt a fix on it, or they’ll find another use for it.

Look, everyone. I’m perfectly willing to gladly and gleefully point out ANet’s many shortcomings. They’ve given me plenty of chances to practice, too. But this? This is them finally admitting they’ve got issues, and starting to address them. Address them openly and publicly, at that. Not everyone likes how they’re going about that, of course, but at least they’re trying. We don’t have to give them our praise, but can we at least cut down on the venom long enough to see if they’re able to pull it off or not?

Jokes aside about voluntary refunds and butt kissing from Anet to loyal veterans who are dissatisfied, Anet does need to think long and hard about how they should market the rest of HoT’s content as well as come out with an already existing plan that makes sense to market the new expac that ties in with what is POSSIBLE to the current team creating it….that means that the marketers and MO better be using their Bat Phone to keeps communications flowing and expectations grounded.

On another note, the expac 3 needs to be designed with veteran casual players in mind mostly. I love seeing new people playing the game, but after 3 or 4 years, your number crunching for profit relies on existing players, not the unknown of possible number of new players.

if we can’t have anet’s legendaries, maybe we can have our own.

Since anet has suspended their plans for new legendaries, they should put a method in place for us to build a legendary we could actually be proud of, and would feel unique to wield.

i think a lot of folks don’t want to use the overly flashy, often silly looking legendary weapons, that everyone already has anyways. but it would be nice to have the footfall and the stat swapping. this way people can see it, know you got a legendary, and its not exactly the same as the one that guy/gal has over there because they are also using a greatsword.

lets look at the formula for a legendary which is simple:

precursor X + gift of X + gift of fortune + gift of mastery

fortune and mastery are easy, they already exist.

we have a conceptual framework for crafting precursor’s, but what if we could bend it a little to make the precursor achievements offer us a gift of X, or something that can then be used to make a gift of X. this gift can basically determine what kind of footfall you make.

And since the precursor achievement gives us a gift of X, let say the precursor X can be any weapon, Lord Taeres’s Shadow or even Royal Ascalonian Dagger, whatever you wanted to make legendary. i know this can be totally variable so someone could use something xtra expensive, or xtra cheap. devs can just make the gift of X achievement super expensive so that this doesn’t become a cheap way to make a weapon w/ stat swapping.

it’d give me more incentive to make a legendary. there are a lot of skins i like more than the current set of legendaries. w/ a framework like this, i could still look/feel good wielding a legendary w/o having to wield a weapon that doesn’t fit the theme/look that i want for my character

what a crazy idea

Jaxom.7310:

if we can’t have anet’s legendaries, maybe we can have our own.

Since anet has suspended their plans for new legendaries, they should put a method in place for us to build a legendary we could actually be proud of, and would feel unique to wield.

i think a lot of folks don’t want to use the overly flashy, often silly looking legendary weapons, that everyone already has anyways. but it would be nice to have the footfall and the stat swapping. this way people can see it, know you got a legendary, and its not exactly the same as the one that guy/gal has over there because they are also using a greatsword.

lets look at the formula for a legendary which is simple:

precursor X + gift of X + gift of fortune + gift of mastery

fortune and mastery are easy, they already exist.

we have a conceptual framework for crafting precursor’s, but what if we could bend it a little to make the precursor achievements offer us a gift of X, or something that can then be used to make a gift of X. this gift can basically determine what kind of footfall you make.

And since the precursor achievement gives us a gift of X, let say the precursor X can be any weapon, Lord Taeres’s Shadow or even Royal Ascalonian Dagger, whatever you wanted to make legendary. i know this can be totally variable so someone could use something xtra expensive, or xtra cheap. devs can just make the gift of X achievement super expensive so that this doesn’t become a cheap way to make a weapon w/ stat swapping.

it’d give me more incentive to make a legendary. there are a lot of skins i like more than the current set of legendaries. w/ a framework like this, i could still look/feel good wielding a legendary w/o having to wield a weapon that doesn’t fit the theme/look that i want for my character

AMAZING idea, IMO.

Anet has just one more chance to pull me back in, and that’s with LS3 and the surrounding content. If they flop (and my guess is they will, as they now have a track record here) I will just walk away.

As it is right now, Ill log in once a week (at best) to do Teq for fun and a couple FOTM40 runs. But that’s all I can muster with this game anymore. For me HOT related content is a flop, compared to the core content of the game. Aside from the new Class and the Elite specs, I did not get my money’s worth out of HoT.

I consider LS3 to be part of HoT (lets call it a delayed release). And if they cannot deliver solid content, that’s it I’m done.

It’s all about business, and now its time to put your words to work Mike O’Brien. The clock is ticking.

Oh look.. they released SAB.. now lets forget about legendary weapons… No.

Palador.2170:

bluemaize.4368:

Person: Anet, do you have trouble making up your mind?

Anet: Ummm…hmmm…Yes and No?

Gee, you’d almost think ANet was more than one person, trying to please a crowd of people with differing opinions.

Now, as for if we’ll ever see the other Legendary weapons: Yes, we will. The art for them wasn’t the hard part, so I’m sure they’re several weapons ahead, if not done with the whole set on the art side. There’s no reason to NOT make a simplified precursor quest and add them in later, they just want to focus on other things first. Maybe while considering what form a simplified (for them, at least) precursor quest should look like.

As for the Alpine/Desert WvW borderlands? Someone at ANet had to (willingly or not) swallow their pride for them to go back to the old maps so soon. They thought they’d have time to make a way to change maps back and forth with little effort, and so they were not really ready to do so. It’s not “flip a switch” easy to do it right now, so it’s a sudden addition of work to the pile. The April update is top priority, and for good reason. It’s not like the need to design a whole new map, though, and I’m sure we’ll see the old map back soon. As for the new one? Well, they’ll either rethink it to attempt a fix on it, or they’ll find another use for it.

Look, everyone. I’m perfectly willing to gladly and gleefully point out ANet’s many shortcomings. They’ve given me plenty of chances to practice, too. But this? This is them finally admitting they’ve got issues, and starting to address them. Address them openly and publicly, at that. Not everyone likes how they’re going about that, of course, but at least they’re trying. We don’t have to give them our praise, but can we at least cut down on the venom long enough to see if they’re able to pull it off or not?

I mostly agree with you. They are addressing the most important issues first. People want new content, and while new legendaries technically are new content, it’s not going to drive people to keep playing the way the living world will. I’m a little grumpy that they are keeping the raid team but not the legendaries team, even though they are about the same size, but I admit that finishing the third raid wing and legendary armor is probably more important to more people than legendary weapons. That said, the legendary weapons were more important to me.

There are a number of reasons not to just add in a simplified precursor quest. One is that it is probably nearly as much work as actually finishing what they were already doing. Second is that it isn’t easy to add more stuff in later for the same precursor. Third is that adding the rest of the legendaries in a different way is hard to reconcile with the previous ones.

Burtnik.5218:

Oh look.. they released SAB.. now lets forgot about legendary weapons… No.

If they do release SAB temporarily in order to give people something to do, that’s all it’s going to be – a temporary distraction from the larger problems HoT has created.

People who think SAB returning is because of the legendary announcement then you’re crazy. Players have been asking for it’s return. Players have complained that they sold us a infinite continue coin on the TP and then SAB vanished for nearly two years.

This has been in the motion for months now and April 1st is the logical release date for it, that’s all.

ekarat.1085:

People want new content, and while new legendaries technically are new content, it’s not going to drive people to keep playing the way the living world will. I’m a little grumpy that they are keeping the raid team but not the legendaries team, even though they are about the same size, but I admit that finishing the third raid wing and legendary armor is probably more important to more people than legendary weapons.

I’m not sure I believe this. Raiding, in my experience, has largely been content only a small amount of a game’s population do. Legendaries, it seems to me, have a larger group of people pursuing them than the new raid. I believe that, overall, more people will make legendaries than will raid.

But I guess it would look bad to forever have only 2/3 of a raid… Course, I think it’s also bad to have 4 new legendaries when there are way more weapons than just a shortbow, staff, pistol, and an axe, and most of these aren’t even the most popular weapons overall.