Guild Wars 2

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

mrstealth.6701:

If you bought an upgraded component for your computer, and ended up being unsatisfied with some aspect of it, would you then want to return the entire PC? If your only recourse was to accept a refund for only the upgraded component, but in turn had to send back the entire computer, you would actually do this?

If it’s bad enough, yes.

If that was my only recourse and I’m feeling utterly betrayed by the retailer and the only way I can get out of this fiasco is to get a refund and start anew far away from these folks, then that’s how it has to be.

Really? I find that quite hard to believe.

Giving up a complete product, that you are otherwise satisfied with, to get a refund of only a small portion of that value because the seller is unwilling to view the upgrade as the separate item it was sold as. I think it’s safe to say that you belong to a small minority of people willing to inflict such damage onto themselves to make a point. I’m sure that company would be “laughing all the way to bank” as it were, with you having just thoroughly screwed yourself over.

In the case of a game account, Anet wouldn’t be getting anything back as with a physical product, but the damage to the customer is still much greater than the refund the company paid back.

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

But if you’re playing semantics with your example with regards to PC parts then yes, in that particular scenario I would be screwing myself over.

I figured you were just trying to make a point and the analogy was poorly thought out. I’ve done that myself, so it’s not a big deal.

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I think ANet priority is to get back the customer trust, i don’t know how though. The upcoming april patch will only have updates and changes to HoT stuff and not any new real content.

Personally i’m a bit hurt, even though i still love this game, i can’t help but feel sad about what they have done to the Legendaries (was waiting for the legendary sword). I was really excited to see how the other legendaries will look, and most of my friends and guildies too.

But now the excitement is not here anymore, even SAB didn’t help much.

In the meantime, i will hold any gem purchase until ANet show me that i can trust them again (its not like they have to care that much anyway… i’m just one of many customers they have)

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I don’t find any of this particularly noble.

It certainly isn’t self-damaging to the vast majority of people who have been with the game pre-HoT and invested hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

$50 well spent.

If one is so very bitter and hung up over the recent decision to put a hold on new legendary weapons for the sake of the game as a whole, you can ultimately end your customer relationship with Anet and pocket the $$$ spent on HoT.

I don’t feel that way myself. I’m willing to see where this goes. Bitter and empty the words of some of the more excitable lot here, most of them are not going to get a refund.

They’re going to wait and see what happens. I think that’s the best course. You don’t have to agree with me to be counted with me in that regard.

It’s fascinating how the fans still keep going on and on with the theory that ANET canceled this project based on how many players are somehow involved with it (and trying to hint us that we sound selfish to want what we paid for), while not realizing that the development of the legendary armors is still going strong, yet, even less players are gonna get involve with this feature as not only a minor part of the community is doing the raids, but after you get the precursor, you will still have to go trough the same process that you are going when you’re crafting the weapons.
Not to mention that they have to graphically develop arond 50 armor parts, while with legendary weapons they would have to develop 16 (well, 12 now).

It’s also funny how fans keep saying that we got our money worth content by just playing the game, while there are a lot of players who didn’t buy the expansion (or even the core game), and also have access to the game, the LW and such.

And the funniest thing is their belief that they are being noble because they are defending a company, while us, the people who are complaining about this company being unfair to the community (including the fans that keep defending it), are the bad guys.

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

CETheLucid.3964:

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I don’t find any of this particularly noble.

It certainly isn’t self-damaging to the vast majority of people who have been with the game pre-HoT and invested hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

$50 well spent.

If one is so very bitter and hung up over the recent decision to put a hold on new legendary weapons for the sake of the game as a whole, you can ultimately end your customer relationship with Anet and pocket the $$$ spent on HoT.

I don’t feel that way myself. I’m willing to see where this goes. Bitter and empty the words of some of the more excitable lot here, most of them are not going to get a refund.

They’re going to wait and see what happens. I think that’s the best course. You don’t have to agree with me to be counted with me in that regard.

Seemed to me more people were going with the boycotting the next expansion and the gem store route.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Yepp and we’ll not stop until ANET makes a positive move to calm the community down.
The people on here are the vocal minority that are willing to waste their time complaining on the forums (and deal with some people while we’re at it), however, a lot of players in game are annoyed and kittened about ANET’s decision, but simply don’t want to waste their time on the forums.

You know, if refunds, full or partial, are out of the question, they could come back and say,

“Dear valued customers,

“We’ve reviewed and renewed our commitment to giving you, the paying customer — the very foundation of our continued existence — what you paid for. We value your patronage, and hope that you will continue to purchase our future exciting projects in good faith, without any lingering fears or doubts as to our ability — or intent — to deliver them in full. To that end, work has recommenced on the remaining legendary weapons. We will complete this endeavor before moving on to future projects.

“Thank you for your patience and support.”

How about that?

Spira.4578:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Yepp and we’ll not stop until ANET makes a positive move to calm the community down.
The people on here are the vocal minority that are willing to waste their time complaining on the forums (and deal with some people while we’re at it), however, a lot of players in game are annoyed and kittened about ANET’s decision, but simply don’t want to waste their time on the forums.

Yeah and maybe half the players don’t even have a clue about it cause they buy and play the game and yet don’t even know when balance changes. Actually I never saw the cancellation mentioned in LA chat, nor has anybody spoke about it in my guild.

So nobody will represent the community, even by repeating the same words again and again.
Anyway, I think the “conversation” is now over. They stated what they’ll do, people complained, other not then people started to complain about each other, like always. Nobody is representative of anybody else than himself, it is useless to try to hide behind high thoughts, laws or throwing words like betrayal, spoil kids or whatever. If they change their mind, they’ll do another post but it won’t be because this very thread is too long.

Ticky.5831:

CETheLucid.3964:

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I don’t find any of this particularly noble.

It certainly isn’t self-damaging to the vast majority of people who have been with the game pre-HoT and invested hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

$50 well spent.

If one is so very bitter and hung up over the recent decision to put a hold on new legendary weapons for the sake of the game as a whole, you can ultimately end your customer relationship with Anet and pocket the $$$ spent on HoT.

I don’t feel that way myself. I’m willing to see where this goes. Bitter and empty the words of some of the more excitable lot here, most of them are not going to get a refund.

They’re going to wait and see what happens. I think that’s the best course. You don’t have to agree with me to be counted with me in that regard.

Seemed to me more people were going with the boycotting the next expansion and the gem store route.

Sadly its just ‘talking into air’ once Arena Net apologize and once they add 1 free xp booster,people will forget about all things they lied about,and same those people who complain now,are going to defend with their lives, same Arena Net who made multi million dollar scam.

CETheLucid.3964:

Appreciate it. Keep fighting the power while vigorously sucking on it’s tit you affable hypocrite you.

Hypocrite? Are you suggesting that the reasonable reaction to being ripped off is to walk away instead of protesting and trying to get what you’re owed?

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

Raising a ruckus on the forums in the hope that it gets picked up by the gaming media has seemingly impacted Anet’s decision making in the past.

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

Raising a ruckus on the forums in the hope that it gets picked up by the gaming media has seemingly impacted Anet’s decision making in the past.

That’s just speculation.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to [censored] take it from Anet.

It also turns out that some of us learned previously not to buy video games or expansions based on what it’s promoted to be before the code is finished being written. No matter how charismatic and trustful the seller.

“The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart.” -JRR Tolkein, The Two Towers

I buy based on what’s there, not based on what’s promoted for the future… I learned that lesson long before ever buying GW2… and that’s why I’m not upset by this news, nor upset with ANet… and that’s why I still play and love GW2.

~EW

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

Raising a ruckus on the forums in the hope that it gets picked up by the gaming media has seemingly impacted Anet’s decision making in the past.

That’s just speculation.

Umm, yeah? That is kind of what, “seemingly,” means in that context.

We do not have proof of causation, but there are sufficient examples of correlation to reinforce the possibility.

I don’t think there is any value in discussing what seems to be, just like arguments based on human fallibility. Making guesses isn’t compelling discussion. I don’t think it’s honest to justify ‘making a ruckus’ to get something you want; I would like to think we are dealing with a higher level maturity here.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

OR … you’re just not giving a team of experienced, educated people who have significant interest in making GW2 successful the benefit of the doubt that they just MIGHT have a clue what they are doing!

I have a clue of what they’re doing. They are walking away with my money in their pockets, without delivering fully on what that money was supposed to give me. Their motivations for that are completely irrelevant for me.
Especially if at the same time they are working on the next thing they think they will be able to sell to me without actually delivering it.

Yes, that’s how Anet works … they lie to you to get your money! They have no honest way to make revenue, so they hatched this scheme to release and expansion, dupe you into paying $50 for it and not fully deliver one of it’s features. So clever. They are rubbing their hands in greed all the way to the bank on this one!

Obtena.7952:

Ashen.2907:

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

Raising a ruckus on the forums in the hope that it gets picked up by the gaming media has seemingly impacted Anet’s decision making in the past.

That’s just speculation.

Perhaps.

Eurogamer.net: GW2 community reacts angrily to HoT expansion
pricing

Arenet responds to fan outrage

Inquisitor.com: Arenanet responds. HoT will now have a character slot for veterans

ANet made a pricing decision. There was anger on the forums which was picked up by the gaming media sites and the decision was changed. It’s a distinct possibility that the different sites picking up consumer anger caused a change in pricing.

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

OR … you’re just not giving a team of experienced, educated people who have significant interest in making GW2 successful the benefit of the doubt that they just MIGHT have a clue what they are doing!

I have a clue of what they’re doing. They are walking away with my money in their pockets, without delivering fully on what that money was supposed to give me. Their motivations for that are completely irrelevant for me.
Especially if at the same time they are working on the next thing they think they will be able to sell to me without actually delivering it.

Yes, that’s how Anet works … they lie to you to get your money! They have no honest way to make revenue, so they hatched this scheme to release and expansion, dupe you into paying $50 for it and not fully deliver one of it’s features. So clever. They are rubbing their hands in greed all the way to the bank on this one!

That’s why I’ve decided never to give them another dollar and got a PS4. I didn’t feel HoT was a fair offer for the price as it seems unfinished and half done.

I figured if your into PvE anyway you might as well get ESO or FF14 which are both outstanding PvE MMO games with contrasting styles and some pvp you may even enjoy. If you’re just into competitive PvP then you can get some addicting chaotic multiplayer games like GTA5, Rocket League, Battlefield, etc. which can help spend time until the next great pvp MMO gets released.

Wished Anet didn’t mess up WvW so bad and made me farm 3k gold for legendaries that wont ever get released that are part of a collection that made my gold and previous gifts pretty much useless.

I also regret having spent about 200$ just to transfer servers in the past years to follow a dying game mode and seeing none of that money being spent in improving that game mode.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think there is any value in discussing what seems to be, just like arguments based on human fallibility. Making guesses isn’t compelling discussion. I don’t think it’s honest to justify ‘making a ruckus’ to get something you want; I would like to think we are dealing with a higher level maturity here.

Think what you like. There have been situations in which, after forum backlash was picked up by outside media, Anet has changed their actions to be more in-line with preferences expressed on the forums.

When that something that people want is something that they have already paid for, perhaps a ruckus is appropriate.

I would like to think that we are dealing with a level of maturity in which one keeps one’s promises and provides the product or service for which one has taken payment as well.

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity. I suspect posts only get better from here.

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity. I suspect posts only get better from here.

Choosing to not fulfill your responsibilities, honor your obligations, or keep your word?

Yeah, that could certainly be considered immature behavior.

Making a, “mistake,” and leaving others holding the bag for it is not what I would consider the mature thing to do.

Maybe if Anet INTENDED to not fulfill their responsibilities, honor their obligations, or keep their word, you might have a claim to call them immature, but they didn’t not intent that. It’s simply a consequence of their business. I’m certain that’s how it looks if you take it out of the context of GW2 being a business. I mean, sure, let’s demand Anet continue legendaries development regardless of the impact on the business. I can’t wait to see what more significant content they would have have to cancel next just to fund it.

It’s pretty easy to ignore the reality of how GW2 works as a business when your on the player side of the keyboard. I would be interesting to see the QQing if Anet shuts down GW2 … will we get the same people demanding refunds for all the money they paid into the game. I wouldn’t be surprised.

CETheLucid.3964:

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I don’t find any of this particularly noble.

It certainly isn’t self-damaging to the vast majority of people who have been with the game pre-HoT and invested hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

$50 well spent.

If one is so very bitter and hung up over the recent decision to put a hold on new legendary weapons for the sake of the game as a whole, you can ultimately end your customer relationship with Anet and pocket the $$$ spent on HoT.

I don’t feel that way myself. I’m willing to see where this goes. Bitter and empty the words of some of the more excitable lot here, most of them are not going to get a refund.

They’re going to wait and see what happens. I think that’s the best course. You don’t have to agree with me to be counted with me in that regard.

So if you buy a new car same brand as the car you had prevoiusly for 10 years.
But when the car comes you only get engine tiers and the seats the rest are on the way.
Then 6 months later Im sorry we werent able to make the frame, you can install the other parts into the car you got now.
Being you your still happy right?

Linken.6345:

CETheLucid.3964:

mrstealth.6701:

CETheLucid.3964:

I mean, do all the years and hours you’ve enjoyed the game up until that theoretical point account for nothing?

Some emotional attachment one might have for the account VS some kind of financial return on your investment?

If it’s purely a money thing, something or nothing is still an easy choice to make and were I to feel so strongly about the issue as some seem too, it makes a point to the company.

How long something has been owned and someone feeling that they had “gotten their money’s worth out of it” don’t really matter. It is paid for, owned, and should not have to be given up. Especially not when the item at issue is only a smaller, separately sold, portion of that whole.

The problem isn’t with the customer not wanting to make some self-damaging noble sacrifice to prove a point to the company, it’s with the company failing to offer a reasonable option for compensation.

I don’t find any of this particularly noble.

It certainly isn’t self-damaging to the vast majority of people who have been with the game pre-HoT and invested hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

$50 well spent.

If one is so very bitter and hung up over the recent decision to put a hold on new legendary weapons for the sake of the game as a whole, you can ultimately end your customer relationship with Anet and pocket the $$$ spent on HoT.

I don’t feel that way myself. I’m willing to see where this goes. Bitter and empty the words of some of the more excitable lot here, most of them are not going to get a refund.

They’re going to wait and see what happens. I think that’s the best course. You don’t have to agree with me to be counted with me in that regard.

So if you buy a new car same brand as the car you had prevoiusly for 10 years.
But when the car comes you only get engine tiers and the seats the rest are on the way.
Then 6 months later Im sorry we werent able to make the frame, you can install the other parts into the car you got now.
Being you your still happy right?

That comparison makes no sense. I will leave you to figure out why.

As other people have said ditch the journeys, and release the weapons as standalone weapons.

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

I see 3 clear options:

1. Take it on the chin.
2. Complain on the forum.
3. Quit the game.

I am hovering between 2 and 3 as I am still waiting for the glimmer of hope to get me back into the game. However, the longer I’m there the more other games have a chance to pull me into 3 as I start to discover that games can actually be fun.

John.8507:

As other people have said ditch the journeys, and release the weapons as standalone weapons.

Don’t even do weapons … we got those in spades. Just want a way to get cool effects like footfalls, etc…

StormageddonBK.9842:

Obtena.7952:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to bend over and take it from Anet.

You actually don’t have a choice. Let’s be realistic about what your options are.

I see 3 clear options:

1. Take it on the chin.
2. Complain on the forum.
3. Quit the game.

I am hovering between 2 and 3 as I am still waiting for the glimmer of hope to get me back into the game. However, the longer I’m there the more other games have a chance to pull me into 3 as I start to discover that games can actually be fun.

There’s option 4 available to those who buy gems with real money. Don’t buy gems with real money until you get the price of the expansion back.

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

Obtena.7952:

I’m certain that’s how it looks if you take it out of the context of a business. I mean, sure, let’s demand Anet continue legendaries development regardless of the impact on the business. I can’t see what more significant content they would have have to cancel next just to fund it.

In the context of a business, a company delivers the products and services for which it has accepted payment or it offers compensation to its paying customers via refund"*" or some other means.

Not only is Anet not providing compensation, but the company couldn’t be bothered to even apologize for the failure to deliver a promised, paid for, feature.

Note that Anet is expending resources greater than an order of magnitude more than the legendary team on a project that is not promised and for which they have not accepted payment. This new project follows an example that, when released to the public, provided a relatively minor impact on revenue for the year in which it was released and may not even have recouped the labor costs of developing it. The established ability of the company to sell this sort of project is already in question, the ability of this sort of project to fund itself is already in question, and some portion of the target customer base has been provided with reason to believe that future projects of this sort cannot be counted on to deliver what is promised and that they will not be compensated if the company fails to deliver what is advertised.

Ultimately I want more expansions. I want them to be successful. I want to feel confident about buying them. I want the game to continue to grow in this manner. But, if the company announces that they are willing to accept payment for things that they will choose to not provide, I see that growth and success to be of limited potential.

“*” A refund that is accompanied by punitive action taken against the customer, such as depriving her of other services for which she has paid, is not compensation.

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them. Anyone complaining about this is very shortsighted and appears clueless about business decisions.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

There’s option 4 available to those who buy gems with real money. Don’t buy gems with real money until you get the price of the expansion back.

I do enjoy the “vote with your wallet” approach to consumerism. You can’t control what other consumers do, you can’t control what the company does, but you can control what you do with your money… so setting an example with your own actions… whether or not it changes anything doesn’t matter, what matters is you’re not compromising on your ideals.

~EW

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think there is any value in discussing what seems to be, just like arguments based on human fallibility. Making guesses isn’t compelling discussion. I don’t think it’s honest to justify ‘making a ruckus’ to get something you want; I would like to think we are dealing with a higher level maturity here.

You are the one guessing at what seems to be. Here are the facts:

Legendary weapons were promoted heavily as a part of the expansion.
Right before launch, it was revealed that the full set wasn’t ready, but that they’d be coming in small groups.
Mr. O’Brien announced that he has a team of people working on a second expansion.
Mr. O’Brien announced that the development of legendary weapons has been suspended indefinitely and the people working on them were reassigned.

Now you’re defending that decision based on things that you assume about this company and about other players. I am reacting based on this decision absolutely being a breach of trust and completely unethical. You are the one suggesting that we should ignore past experiences and just have faith in the infallible Mr. O’Brien, when this entire thread is based on an admission of failure to deliver.

I’m not going to bother responding to you again. You have a way of twisting common sense to suit your own purposes and ignoring facts, so it’s really not worth the energy to engage repeatedly, but I think it’s disgusting that someone who has been around for the various shenanigans, who saw the whole thing unfold, is still willing to staunchly defend this sort of thing.

The whole point of the expansion being content-light was to develop a framework to make future development much easier. Does that seem to be the case, here?

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them. Anyone complaining about this is very shortsighted and appears clueless about business decisions.

Well, I really don’t care about what you think about me, as you’ve shown yourself a very poor judge of character.

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them.

Will you give them money in the future, knowing, as you do, that if whatever you’ve paid for ‘just isn’t working out for them’ to deliver, not only will you not get whatever it is, but they will also keep your money?

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them. Anyone complaining about this is very shortsighted.

Customers didn’t, “attempt,” to pay. They paid.
Anet didn’t, “attempt,” to accept payment, they took it.

If they are literally incapable of providing the advertised and paid for feature or service then they should offer compensation to those affected.

The shortsightedness, in my opinion, is in assuming that choosing to take customers’ money for an advertised feature or product and then not providing said product or feature will not adversely affect the company’s ability to sell future advertised products.

I know that I have gone from, “if the advertised features of a given expansion/etc seem appealing to me I will buy it,” to, “Perhaps some time after an expansion which seems appealing based on advertised features goes live I might buy it.”

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them. Anyone complaining about this is very shortsighted and appears clueless about business decisions.

I’m pretty sure that if the situation was reversed, and you’d be the person that didn’t deliver something to Anet after taking the money (say, you lost that money because of “bad business decision”), that would go real well for you and you wouldn’t get your behind sued to kingdom come.
Yeah, right.

I’m kind of wondering how many who say, “it’s not important” or “it’s for the good of the game” would be complaining if instead it was announced that raiding and Legendary armor was cancelled after 2 wings made.

If they did cancel it now and people who are currently saying it’s no big deal start complaining, I’ll be most amused.

So in January Anet announced they were working on the next expansion, do we know if it’s still being worked on? If so I’d be extremely disappointed when developers are being re-tasked out of completing the first expansion.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

I’m fascinated by how many post the same half dozen people have made complaining about this the past 30 pages.

Well turns out not all of us are just willing to [censored] take it from Anet.

It also turns out that some of us learned previously not to buy video games or expansions based on what it’s promoted to be before the code is finished being written. No matter how charismatic and trustful the seller.

“The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart.” -JRR Tolkein, The Two Towers

I buy based on what’s there, not based on what’s promoted for the future… I learned that lesson long before ever buying GW2… and that’s why I’m not upset by this news, nor upset with ANet… and that’s why I still play and love GW2.

~EW

That’s certainly good advise for features that are hyped up or vaguely described. But the fact that we were getting a complete set of legendary weapons wasn’t vague info or hype. The only part left unclear was the time frame for that delivery.

When a box describes the enclosed product as “professional grade/quality” or “America’s #1 whatever it is”, be skeptical of the marketing. When the box says “assembly required (tools & hardware included)”, all of the needed screws, tools, and such had better be in that box.

You know what I find particularly hilarious? Anet bans people who buy gems and have transaction issues. AKA they make a transaction and the customer doesn’t follow through. But when Anet is the one not following through the customer still gets burnt.

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Tachenon.5270:

Obtena.7952:

Right … making a mistake, recognizing a bad business decision and stopping low-value development now equates to immaturity.

The bad business decision was taking people’s money and then deciding not to give them what they paid for. Whether or not it’s immature is irrelevant; it most certainly is unethical.

Do you not agree? Will you give them money in the future, knowing that you might not get what you paid for?

I don’t see how it’s unethical at all and I don’t agree. Anet intended to deliver that content and even attempted to do so in good faith. It’s just not working out for them.

Will you give them money in the future, knowing, as you do, that if whatever you’ve paid for ‘just isn’t working out for them’ to deliver, not only will you not get whatever it is, but they will also keep your money?

I will because I understand what my money pays for, how much entertainment value I get from it and think the game is worth supporting. I don’t ‘act out’ and demand a full refund if a single feature is only partially delivered because I’m just not that selfish.

Even if I was due a refund, it would only be reasonable for it to be the part of the expansion that pertained to the partially delivered feature, not the whole thing, since I have been satisfied with other aspects AND got entertainment value from it. I just don’t have the audacity to eat a whole buffet and ask for a refund because they didn’t deliver chocolate ice cream that day.

Its pointless to keep responding to trolls and sycophants. People like that will argue forever with no actual basis except attempts to obfuscate and divert attention from the original issue. Regardless of what these types are saying, ANET is making it exceedingly clear that we can’t trust them. The only times they relent on shady and unscrupulous behavior is when they get pressured into submission by media and money. Personally, I’m tired of waiting on them to be trustworthy. I’m tired of mistakenly expecting them to deliver on promises. I didn’t want to, but I just took the hint and I’m downloading BDO now. I seriously don’t think they would drop such a huge stink bomb on us like refusing to deliver what we paid for…without even an attempt at an apology / compensation…if they weren’t going to stick to that decision. They seem to be planning on waiting out the firestorm instead of even further addressing the issue. Hopefully, those still willing to make a fuss about this will get some traction and GW2 may end up being worth a return visit in the near future…if they actually decide to provide what we paid for in good faith.

Obtena.7952:

. I just don’t have the audacity to eat a whole buffet and ask for a refund because they didn’t deliver chocolate ice cream that day.

Sounds like your problem. You should work on that, it’ll take you further. Don’t take out your weakness on other people.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’m kind of wondering how many who say, “it’s not important” or “it’s for the good of the game” would be complaining if instead it was announced that raiding and Legendary armor was cancelled after 2 wings made.

If they did cancel it now and people who are currently saying it’s no big deal start complaining, I’ll be most amused.

It’s hard to tell how big that venn diagram would be. In part it would depend on how well the reasoning for the cancelation is stated. However like now with the legendary weapons, you’re always going to have people who won’t accept or don’t understand the reasoning.

~EW

mrstealth.6701:

That’s certainly good advise for features that are hyped up or vaguely described. But the fact that we were getting a complete set of legendary weapons wasn’t vague info or hype. The only part left unclear was the time frame for that delivery.

I suppose that’s where we’re going to disagree, I’m sorry. I don’t remember seeing any art for the complete set, there’s no description of visual effects, no complete list of names, no lore, nothing but marketing and eventually 3(4) weapons. The weapons that are released are proof enough they made a “good-faith” attempt at delivery… but otherwise what I saw was vague info and marketing.

~EW