Guild Wars 2

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

But its aquisition is harder – and therefore an even smaller amount of players will go after it. (targeting less players)
Not to mention that they have create 50+ armor parts which will take far more resources than 12 weapon skins.
Talking from the companies perspective, which is supposedly trying to stabilize their profit, what they did is not logical.

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

]
I was talking about general content drought. You can’t complain about the content drought until you have a single unfinished Achievement.

That’s a matter of opinion. Again, it’s unreasonable for Anet to simply deliver ANY kind of content, no matter how costly it is just because of ‘content drought’.

As a matter of fact, I suspect those devs they took off Legendary development are being put onto content that will deal with whatever lack of it you think exists to get it to us faster.

So the content drought argument for keeping Legendary development … is nonsense.

lol okay, I get it – you’re a hypocrite.
You’re telling us: “You can’t demand more content if you didn’t complete everything yet”
While saying: “That’s a matter of opinion” when I used your own logic against your argument.

Also, I guess you’re the one who came up with the theory that ANET canceled the legendary team because it’s targeted by a small group of players and because it’s taking too many resources.

I stated a few facts on the previous page which counter this theory. Facts, not opinions and theories.

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Halt the presses, cease the hostilities everyone and rejoice instead because there’s a new glider and outfit in the gemstore!!!!!!! /sarcasm

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

But its aquisition is harder – and therefore an even smaller amount of players will go after it. (targeting less players)
Not to mention that they have create 50+ armor parts which will take far more resources than 12 weapon skins.
Talking from the companies perspective, which is supposedly trying to stabilize their profit, what they did is not logical.

You’re right, if those are the only factors that go into these decisions, then I think Legendary armor is illogical to develop as well. /shrug. Maybe that’s next week.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I see the circular arguments are still going strong in this thread with the same 5-6 people shouting down anyone who has a different opinion to them. ANet are not going to change there minds folks.

Probably not. I just want people to understand that by accepting this, by excusing this, by condoning this, they are showing anet, and any other company that may be watching, that they won’t mind if this sort of thing happens again. I want them to understand that if it happens again, it will be nobody’s fault but their own, because they will have already given it their stamp of approval. Right here and now.

Regardless, the fact remains, and no amount of prevarication or obfuscation will change it: anet took money for something they decided they didn’t have to deliver.

I happen to think that decision was not only wrong, but unethical, and that anet should be held accountable, and that anet should either reverse that decision and deliver what was advertised or offer some other form of compensation to those that bought the unfinished product, and if they won’t do either of those things, then I have to wonder: why should anyone trust them ever again?

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

This doesn’t make it any more high impact to players. The nature of its acquisition will probably see it being a goal for even fewer players.

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

best answer .. Because we don’t have Legendary armor and it’s a specific reward to a high end raid?

This doesn’t make it any more high impact to players. The nature of its acquisition will probably see it being a goal for even fewer players.

OK … maybe that’s Anet’s next target if they need more resources to deliver more significant content to players faster.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Villainizing ANet for this decision may help some people to justify their rage/anger/hatred over the decision… but it also keeps those same people from seeing other parts of the picture and come to a reasoned decision about what they wish to do in response. Us vs Them anger helps no one.

~EW

Anet cast themselves in the role of villain by making the decision to not deliver what was advertised, and what people paid for.

Us vs Them anger may or may not help, but Us meekly accepting it tells Them they can do it to Us again whenever they feel like it.

Don’t try to make this the customers’ fault. This is on anet. No one else.

RIP my dream for Legendary Storm Bow

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

That’s nice … you still haven’t answered the questions I asked. That’s just ONE of the things you need to know if you’re going to claim what content is most relevant to alleviate content drought. I’m willing to bet … Anet knows this better than you or I.

Sorry, I just don’t get whatever point you’re trying to make. You’re saying that Legendary weapons development is a good way to alleviate content drought because Legendary armor is harder to make? That’s a pretty cherrypicked argument that ignores lots of factors that went into the decision. Again, you and I don’t work at Anet.

Frankly, I think Legendary weapons and armor are both crap content, remove them both. Put those people to work on whatever the majority of your paying customers want.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

That’s nice … you still haven’t answered the questions I asked. That’s just ONE of the things you need to know if you’re going to claim what content is most relevant to alleviate content drought. I’m willing to bet … Anet knows this better than you or I.

They most certanely have the matrices for it, yes. I’m not sure if they KNOW this tho, or if they even used this info to take the decision (since MO didn’t say anything about it).
The thing is – based on everything that is available to us (and there’s a lot), it’s safe to say that ANET didn’t decide on this action because it was taking too long to do the journeys and certanely not because it was the least approached content.

And if you look at the past on ANET’s performance, they didn’t really give us any reason to trust in their decision making skills, as well as gathering info (“There’s no exclusive WvW player”…

But I’ll give you that – there could be other explanations to it, so talking and speculating won’t solve anything – the thing is, this speculations started when the fans tried to defend ANET’s actions – that’s when the counter arguments appeared as well.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter why they did it. What matters is that they did it.
And we have all the right to be annoyed, disapointed and to complain.
Their decision breached both their customers trust as well as the trading regulations.
If they won’t do anything, people will keep complaining, not just here, but on other social media as well. And eventualy, it will hurt ANET, because a lot of people won’t spend their money on their next kitten expansion.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And the store determines what that compensation is… if they choose to make it a rain check, then so be it… but they don’t always. Heck, in this example the rain check can be equated to “indefinitely suspended.” You can get the green beans when they’re back in the store, but no eta on when that is.

Actually, at least in some states, a store is required to offer a rain check. Unless the item is a clearance, special order, or some other item that is unable to be restocked, any other compensation is solely at the customer’s discretion to accept or decline.

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Actually, I know what they said about it. They said that adding armor pieces is extremely hard and therefore will be used only for rewards.

That’s nice … you still haven’t answered the questions I asked. That’s just ONE of the things you need to know if you’re going to claim what content is most relevant to alleviate content drought. I’m willing to bet … Anet knows this better than you or I.

They most certanely have the matrices for it, yes. I’m not sure if they KNOW this tho, or if they even used this info to take the decision (since MO didn’t say anything about it).
The thing is – based on everything that is available to us (and there’s a lot), it’s safe to say that ANET didn’t decide on this action because it was taking too long to do the journeys and certanely not because it was the least approached content.

There are very likely things not available to us that paint a very different picture; MANY more things. We aren’t privy to everything. I don’t think we are privy to much of anything to be honest. It’s pretty easy to not understand the dimensions you don’t live in and make bad conclusions based on the small fraction that you do see.

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Obtena.7952:

There are very likely things not available to us that paint a very different picture; MANY more things. We aren’t privy to everything. I don’t think we are privy to much of anything to be honest. It’s pretty easy to not understand the dimensions you don’t live in and make bad conclusions based on the small fraction that you do see.

This applies to you as well, so remember those words.
You see, my argument was actually a counter argument to the original claims of some fans who theorycrafted that ANET did that because legendaries aren’t approached by most of the community and that when it comes to legendaries, it’s probably harder to develop the journeys and not the skins.

This argument has less weight as it’s based only on assumption.
My argument, even if it’s only a possibility, it is based on facts, so it has more weight. But even if it wouldn’t, with what you wrote, you shut down any “white knight” defending them.
Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Most players don’t even know about this change.

Because it’s such low impact content for most people that it doesn’t affect them.

You keep referring to it as low impact, which in addition to being somewhat vague, is something none of us have the data to determine. Only Anet has the information relevant to determine that, and we have no idea what was actually factored into their decision. For all we know, it could have absolutely nothing to do how much “impact” legendary weapons have.

You’re right … I’m making an educated guess on that. I’m assuming Anet isn’t stupid enough to cancel high impact content that has a low cost to implement that they can deliver vs. low impact content that is more costly that they can’t deliver. You know, business decision stuff based on ROI, etc … much better metrics than what any of us have access to.

let’s not get back into the premise that Anet is clueless about what they are doing, so we can assume anything they do is stupid and therefore, reinstate Legendary development. That goes nowhere.

So why are they still working on legendary armor?

It seems unlikely that legendary armor would have more impact than legendary weapons. It’s acquisition is even put behind content designed to be a challenge for more hardcore players. It also has a collection workload on-par with a full set of weapons, in addition to skins that are much more work to create to due to requiring different models and textures based on race and gender.

And I also think it’s fairly reasonable to question the decision making of a company that comes to the conclusion that a decision that they know will anger a lot of their customers, turns their own promotion/marketing into false information, and will negatively impact consumer trust/confidence, effecting the sales of their future products is somehow good for business.

The problem was never the skins, it was the acquisition. So far legendary armor just needs raids to complete, which just have very simple item drops from content they are already developing. They don’t have to find events, recode those events, link those events to a story, revamp the events and add in hundreds of items like they did with weapons. I don’t think the armor will be nearly as involved, though it will certainly be expensive.

Also the raid team may be in charge of the raid rewards as well, so it might be all bundled together. Maybe they are less incompetent than the weapon team.

You come across to me as too angry to even consider what anyone else has to say contrary to your rage, but what the heck…

Tachenon.5270:

Anet cast themselves in the role of villain by making the decision to not deliver what was advertised, and what people paid for.

No, you cast them as a villain because you don’t agree with their decision. The world is full of a lot more grey areas than we’re taught there are as children.

Tachenon.5270:

Us vs Them anger may or may not help, but Us meekly accepting it tells Them they can do it to Us again whenever they feel like it.

I’ve seen no one in this thread “meekly accept” anything. I’ve seen people trying to maturely and reasonably discuss why such a decision was made. I’ve seen people raging and threatening legal action. I’ve seen people utilize their agency and let people know what they are going to do in response. I’ve seen a lot of people just venting their frustrations. Are you just saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with your position is “meekly accepting” what happened? /rhetorical

They can do what’s in their legal bounds to do whenever they feel like. If you disagree what those legal bounds are, go talk to a lawyer. If you don’t accept their decisions, go play another game. You have the freedom to not play the game if you don’t like decisions the company makes… exercise it if you want… you can’t directly control the company, and you can’t directly control the other players, but you CAN set the example for yourself and live up to your ideals. Vote with your wallet.

Tachenon.5270:

Don’t try to make this the customers’ fault. This is on anet. No one else.

I never claimed the decision of ANet ceasing work on legendary weapons the fault of the customer. Unreasonable demands and non-constructive rage in response to this decision is the fault of the customer. Anger is expected, but reason needs to win out.

~EW

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

Spira.4578:

Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

OK, which brings me back to the same statement I made before; Anet attempted to deliver that content in good faith. there isn’t some conspiracy to steal from people or cheat them. Anet sincerely wanted to get that content to people; they realize they can’t do it. This is just a reality of their current business situation. There was never a plan to cancel Legendary development 6 months after HoT.

There isn’t any right or wrong here. If it wasn’t Leg. Weapons, it would be something else. Anet expect people to be angry; hence this thread. I mean, the whole POINT of this thread is to allow players to make the decisions and take the options they have available to them for playing the game or not. People paint Anet as villians and cowards when in fact, this thread was a very up front and responsible approach for them as a company to treat us as customers.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

How much does Anet pay you? Just curious.

So. In the end. Their regular interval being 1 legendary per 6 months means you can only complain when they dont “deliver” 1 legendary this year oktober.

Since this doesn’t state how they are delivered exactly, they can even make it a gemstore item or a super rare drop.

If you want to be really technical about this anyway.

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

How much does Anet pay you? Just curious.

You wouldn’t believe it if I told you. Ever hear of the Kind of Saudi Arabia? He’s my Chauffeur. I’m actually the reason Anet has to cancel Leg. Weapon development. My fees are huge.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

No, you cast them as a villain because you don’t agree with their decision. The world is full of a lot more grey areas than we’re taught there are as children.

Totally! We cast them as a villain because we don’t agree with their decision – Their decision to take our money for a product they now refuse to deliver.
If you do this anywhere around the world, you can get a lawsuit, meaning, you’re not acting according to the law, meaning, you’re the villain

I’ve seen no one in this thread “meekly accept” anything. I’ve seen people trying to maturely and reasonably discuss why such a decision was made.

It’s definitelly not mature to be okay with a company not delivering the product you paid for. It’s actually the opposite, as the people you see as “mature” has no sense of money value.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Are you just saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with your position is “meekly accepting” what happened? /rhetorical

It has nothing to do with what he thinks. It’s simple logic.
They said “hey, we’re not gonna give you what you paid for and we’re not gonna do anything about it, sorry” and if you say something in the line of “That’s okay, It’s for the greater good”, aren0t you “meekly accepting” the situation?
/rhetorical

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Unreasonable demands and non-constructive rage in response to this decision is the fault of the customer. Anger is expected, but reason needs to win out.

Unreasonable?
I think it’s more unreasonable that they have enough money to pay 70 devs working on the next expac, while they don’t have enough money to pay 6 devs to work on the content that we bought.

It’s actually a very reasonable to demand for what you paid for.

In similar cases, there are a few different reasonable things that could be done – all coming from the company and not the customer. The customer already paid and met their end of the deal. If the other side can’t deliver what was promised, they should, in fact, give some kind of compensation. We’re not asking for a full refund – that would be unreasonable.
The best thing they could do is restart this group, but we’re aware that it might not happen.
However, what could and actually SHOULD happen, is ANET, react appropriately as a company.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

If you add 5% manpower to a year’s worth of work, you end up with that job being done about 2.5 weeks faster. I don’t consider that to be a big deal.

Comparatively, taking 6 people away from a 6 person dev team…well, that’s as a high negative impact as you can possibly have without destroying work already done.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

OK, which brings me back to the same statement I made before; Anet attempted to deliver that content in good faith. there isn’t some conspiracy to steal from people or cheat them. Anet sincerely wanted to get that content to people; they realize they can’t do it. This is just a reality of their current business situation.

I’m not saying it was a conspiracy.
I’m saying that good faith alone doesn’t make things right. If a player in good faith buys a key on a wrong website, they will still get their account banned. Even if it was done in good faith. And even if he sincerely wanted to pay.

Obtena.7952:

There was never a plan to cancel Legendary development 6 months after HoT.

You’re speculating again.

Obtena.7952:

There isn’t any right or wrong here. If it wasn’t Leg. Weapons, it would be something else.

There is a wrong here. It’s ANET canceling the development of an advertized feature and not offering anything in return.
In any company, if they fail to deliver, they offer a partial refund or a compensation for the troubles. And in 2015, this got in effect for e-goods including online video games as well.[/quote]

Obtena.7952:

Anet expect people to be angry; hence this thread.

Well, having angry customers is never a good plan.

Obtena.7952:

I mean, the whole POINT of this thread is to allow players to make the decisions and take the options they have available to them for playing the game or not.

What decision, lol.
To either deal with it, or take a refund and lose every single cent you additionally put in this game?

Obtena.7952:

People paint Anet as villians and cowards when in fact, this thread was a very up front and responsible approach for them as a company to treat us as customers.

As customers? More like as fools.
What they said is “Hey, we can’t provide you with what you paid for because we have to cut our loss. Sorry for YOUR loss”
And then bailed.
This is not how a company treats their customers.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

You come across to me as too angry to even consider what anyone else has to say contrary to your rage, but what the heck…

Tachenon.5270:

Anet cast themselves in the role of villain by making the decision to not deliver what was advertised, and what people paid for.

No, you cast them as a villain because you don’t agree with their decision. The world is full of a lot more grey areas than we’re taught there are as children.

Tachenon.5270:

Us vs Them anger may or may not help, but Us meekly accepting it tells Them they can do it to Us again whenever they feel like it.

I’ve seen no one in this thread “meekly accept” anything. I’ve seen people trying to maturely and reasonably discuss why such a decision was made. I’ve seen people raging and threatening legal action. I’ve seen people utilize their agency and let people know what they are going to do in response. I’ve seen a lot of people just venting their frustrations. Are you just saying that anyone who doesn’t agree with your position is “meekly accepting” what happened? /rhetorical

They can do what’s in their legal bounds to do whenever they feel like. If you disagree what those legal bounds are, go talk to a lawyer. If you don’t accept their decisions, go play another game. You have the freedom to not play the game if you don’t like decisions the company makes… exercise it if you want… you can’t directly control the company, and you can’t directly control the other players, but you CAN set the example for yourself and live up to your ideals. Vote with your wallet.

Tachenon.5270:

Don’t try to make this the customers’ fault. This is on anet. No one else.

I never claimed the decision of ANet ceasing work on legendary weapons the fault of the customer. Unreasonable demands and non-constructive rage in response to this decision is the fault of the customer. Anger is expected, but reason needs to win out.

~EW

Regardless of how you perceive my posts, the fact of the matter remains: anet took money for something they decided to not deliver.

Is it not so?

Tachenon.5270:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I see the circular arguments are still going strong in this thread with the same 5-6 people shouting down anyone who has a different opinion to them. ANet are not going to change there minds folks.

Probably not. I just want people to understand that by accepting this, by excusing this, by condoning this, they are showing anet, and any other company that may be watching, that they won’t mind if this sort of thing happens again. I want them to understand that if it happens again, it will be nobody’s fault but their own, because they will have already given it their stamp of approval. Right here and now.

Regardless, the fact remains, and no amount of prevarication or obfuscation will change it: anet took money for something they decided they didn’t have to deliver.

I happen to think that decision was not only wrong, but unethical, and that anet should be held accountable, and that anet should either reverse that decision and deliver what was advertised or offer some other form of compensation to those that bought the unfinished product, and if they won’t do either of those things, then I have to wonder: why should anyone trust them ever again?

People said the same thing when games started to charge for DLC that was “optional” content, more like a way to turn a £40 game in to a £80-£100 game, EA do it to every game they bring out, as do CoD, I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it, and not everyone dose it, and it’s acceptable. Where as I see it as milking people by selling them half to three quarters of a game, while they hold the rest back to sell later on as optional content. The games industry has been in a mess for ages. But way too many people just accept it. Even if enough people where to get together, all it would do is tank one game. It wouldn’t cure the problem, and that problem is people think it’s ok. I’m all for supporting devs for the work they do, but when games are up for pre order, and you can pre order a DLC season pass, you know they are out to milk you.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later. Same as raids, sure they where a selling point of HoT, and wrongly so, but we got HoT in the state it was advertised.

Disambiguation:

• “Legendary weapons are cancelled.”
• “ANet is legally at fault/engaged in false advertising.”

Actually, the production of new Legendary Weapons has been suspended indefinitely. Legally, this is a postponement, not a cancellation. There was no promised delivery date, so there is no false advertising unless/until ANet declares them cancelled.

Opinion:

• The indefinite postponement of L. Weapons 2.0 25% of the way through the delivery process is not a legal issue, but it is a good faith issue. Despite what I typed in the Disambiguation portion of this post, people are perceiving that they’ve been left holding the bag. Player perceptions are a factor in player decisions to continue supporting the company.
• Mr. O’Brien stated that he was aware people would be upset. Taking the action anyway suggests that he believes drastic action is needed. What we don’t know is why. I believe, though, that the Q1 2016 NCSoft financials report might be instructive. Of course, it might not.
• Moving 6 developers off this project onto other projects is not going to have a huge impact on those other projects. It’s more likely that the process of producing L. Weapons has been deemed to be taking way more time/effort than it ought.
• If so, it’s likely the “legendary journeys” methodology that is at fault. Under this hypothesis, L. weapon production might resume at a later date once they’ve: gotten back into more regular content updates (if that happens); and after they’ve had a chance to come up with a new methodology to replace the journeys that can be accomplished without taking so long.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Spira.4578:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I remember when map packs where free, not charged £5-£10 for better maps that should have been in the game from day one, not held back. But everyone swallowed it

There’s a difference tho.
Those people got what their paid for. The additional maps were not something that were included in the original game and were also not promoted. They were add ons added later on.

In this case, we paid for this product and didn’t get it in the state that it was advertized.

In other words, in your example you’re talking about adding bonus content for bonus money.
While what happened here was adding bonus content for bonus money and then taking some of this parts away.

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later. Same as raids, sure they where a selling point of HoT, and wrongly so, but we got HoT in the state it was advertised.

“Later” is literally a short description of what they said about when and how we would get it.
They actually said we would get them in small groups (first mistake here, as 1 legendary short bow is in no way a group) and in regular intervals – which, 1 month, 4 months, indifinitelly suspended is not.
At the same time we also didn’t get fractal leaderboards, some guild functions and some masteries.
We also didn’t get “4 of the biggest maps of Guild Wars 2”.
All of it was promoted and I’m sure I missed a few things as well.
You are trying to defend ANET based on an alternative interpretation of the things they wrote, while what they wrote is so clear that it doesn’t even need any kind of interpretation.

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

If you add 5% manpower to a year’s worth of work, you end up with that job being done about 2.5 weeks faster. I don’t consider that to be a big deal.

Comparatively, taking 6 people away from a 6 person dev team…well, that’s as a high negative impact as you can possibly have without destroying work already done.

I would rather they release content they can actually deliver 2.5 weeks faster than content they can’t deliver at all.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Ticky.5831:

If you read the whole thread, you’d know there was already constructive feedback given.

You should probably have done that before hostilely calling people crybabys.

Or white knights or door mats?

Doormat isn’t an insult. Psychiatrists will even use the term as a short-hand for some who neglects their own needs because of passivity(and who suffers for it). I’m trying to help the people I’m calling doormats. Its unhealthy for them to act like that. I’d know because I used to be one until I learned assertiveness skills, in group therapy ran by psychologists who used that term. When I call someone a doormat, I’m not attacking them.

I don’t believe I ever used the term “white knight”. I think it’s a stupid term, clearly used by people when they aren’t articulate or resourceful enough to dismantle an argument(or alternatively, when they are extremely frustrated), just to irrationally demonize someone in a desperate ad-hominem attack.

Spira.4578:

Totally! We cast them as a villain because we don’t agree with their decision – Their decision to take our money for a product they now refuse to deliver.
If you do this anywhere around the world, you can get a lawsuit, meaning, you’re not acting according to the law, meaning, you’re the villain

It’s just not that simple, I’m sorry you don’t see that. You (and others) ascribe malicious intent and duplicity where there isn’t any proof of any ill intentions… in fact, there’s more evidence to the contrary. You read the announcement as “refuse to deliver,” and I read it as, “can’t deliver.” Yeah, they should have known better than to take up a project that isn’t reasonable for them to complete right now, but sometimes kittens happen, and we’re all watching how they take responsibility for that. Also, as has been stated previously, there is no way such a choice was taken lightly or without examining the laws… I’ve yet to see anyone give more than armchair legal perspectives which doesn’t prove they broke the law or are villains. Intentional or otherwise. And, if you think they’re villains, why are you bothering hanging around in their forums after you’ve made your position clear time and again?

It’s definitelly not mature to be okay with a company not delivering the product you paid for. It’s actually the opposite, as the people you see as “mature” has no sense of money value.

..another way to look at it might be the “people I see as mature” don’t have an over-inflated sense of money value. *shrugs

Spira.4578:

It has nothing to do with what he thinks. It’s simple logic.
They said “hey, we’re not gonna give you what you paid for and we’re not gonna do anything about it, sorry” and if you say something in the line of “That’s okay, It’s for the greater good”, aren0t you “meekly accepting” the situation?
/rhetorical

What decision a person comes to after they feel they’ve given the situation due consideration isn’t meekly accepting anything… it doesn’t matter whether that conclusion is “I hate ANet” or “whatevs.” A considered decision is never meek… neither are the people willing to take the time to talk about it.

Spira.4578:

Unreasonable?
I think it’s more unreasonable that they have enough money to pay 70 devs working on the next expac, while they don’t have enough money to pay 6 devs to work on the content that we bought.

No, that’s budgeting and resource allocation… Just because one feature they’re working on becomes no longer feasible, doesn’t mean they cease work on other features. Do you seriously think they didn’t consider diverting more resources to legendary weapon development?

They have to consider current content and income as well as future content and income… and yeah, people being upset about the postponement of legendaries is going to impact their future income… but not as much as ceasing development all together on the other things they’re working on to put more time into something that is currently a money/development sink.

Spira.4578:

It’s actually a very reasonable to demand for what you paid for.

And it’s reasonable to listen to when the people you paid can’t deliver, their reasons for it, and their offers of remuneration however they’re offered…. because sometimes in life things won’t go your way, and the more you know the better position you are in to make informed decisions. Throwing a temper tantrum is the purview of children. Stating you’re upset, considering the facts you have and your available options, then deciding what to do about it in a calm manner is the expectation for adults.

Spira.4578:

In similar cases, there are a few different reasonable things that could be done – all coming from the company and not the customer. The customer already paid and met their end of the deal. If the other side can’t deliver what was promised, they should, in fact, give some kind of compensation. We’re not asking for a full refund – that would be unreasonable.

Sure, I agree that some type of compensation is in order, I’ve stated that earlier, and I’ve also stated that I see the most realistic compensation would be for more investment by the company into sustainable content as a substitute for the content they couldn’t sustain. The absorption of the legendaries team by the LW team is a start to that. There might be other things ‘planned,’ but since all of that takes time are you patient enough to wait and see? This thread is evidence enough that it’s a bad idea for them to ‘advertise’ what they’re working on before it’s finished… so it’s reasonable to conclude you won’t know what you’re getting in remuneration until it goes live.

But, you also have agency. Choose to do something. Leave, stay, wait and see, talk with a lawyer, withhold money from future purchases, whatever… But, show some initiative and make a choice beyond raging on a forum.

Spira.4578:

The best thing they could do is restart this group, but we’re aware that it might not happen.
However, what could and actually SHOULD happen, is ANET, react appropriately as a company.

And, that’s where we find ourselves disagreeing. In many ways I do see them acting ‘appropriately as a company.’ You and other’s don’t agree, and that’s fair.

If the best think they could do is to “restart” the legendaries, then they wouldn’t have postponed them in the first place. It’ll go a long way to curb your anger if you accept the fact you are not in possession of all the relevant information needed to make the decision they did.

~EW

I would rather they gave me what was advertised and paid for then then allow them to get away with cheating on a deal. I would accept a refund if it included all my gem purchases and then gladly say adios and consider time played as time wasted.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

If you add 5% manpower to a year’s worth of work, you end up with that job being done about 2.5 weeks faster. I don’t consider that to be a big deal.

Comparatively, taking 6 people away from a 6 person dev team…well, that’s as a high negative impact as you can possibly have without destroying work already done.

I would rather they release content they can actually deliver 2.5 weeks faster than content they can’t deliver at all.

I’d frankly they’d rather not deliver any more “content” than cease development on an advertised feature.

Granted, I want them to deliver more content. But I’ve been playing very regularly the last year and a half, and on-and of since the beginning previously, and I know for a fact I can open my achievements tab and find stuff to do and can probably keep doing that at least until the end of the year.

And when I run of content, I’d be willing to wait. I’d also log in daily, and before this fiasco, keep an eye on the gem store. Now I’d just log in daily.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

Obtena.7952:

What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

A content drought caused by 6 people being “missing” out of a 120-dev live game team? That’s quite a stretch.

If anything is low impact, it’s augmenting a 120-strong team with an extra 6 people.

Really? 5% Isn’t a big deal to you? I guess the difference between a few legendaries shouldn’t either.

If you add 5% manpower to a year’s worth of work, you end up with that job being done about 2.5 weeks faster. I don’t consider that to be a big deal.

Comparatively, taking 6 people away from a 6 person dev team…well, that’s as a high negative impact as you can possibly have without destroying work already done.

I would rather they release content they can actually deliver 2.5 weeks faster than content they can’t deliver at all.

I’d rather see what we paid for getting delivered or some compensation for that failure, and perhaps an explanation for the cancellation that actually makes a bit of sense. They can at least address why, or better yet, how this is just now becoming an issue worthy of informing us. Anet surely did not complete 20 precursor collections and 3 legendary weapons without realizing there was a problem.

BrotherBelial.3094:

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later.

No. That information has appeared only after the first wave of prepurchases. The first information was that a new set of legendaries was one of major parts of HoT expansion.
Also, “later” is not the same as “possibly never”.

Astralporing.1957:

BrotherBelial.3094:

But we did get it in the state it was advertised. Legendary weapons where always coming later.

No. That information has appeared only after the first wave of prepurchases. The first information was that a new set of legendaries was one of major parts of HoT expansion.
Also, “later” is not the same as “possibly never”.

Which is just the general take on it anyway. SAB was also coming back possibly never. Yet here we are.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

It’s just not that simple, I’m sorry you don’t see that. You (and others) ascribe malicious intent and duplicity where there isn’t any proof of any ill intentions…

I don’t describe malicious intent and duplicity to their original promises. I genuinely think they believed they can deliver, and that their failure to do so is not part of some devious plan, but just a result of their incompetence. Still, that doesn’t change the fact, that they didn’t deliver something that they got paid for, and have no intention of doing so. What’s more, they don’t even seem to think they are doing something wrong, which is very worrying for the future.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

You read the announcement as “refuse to deliver,” and I read it as, “can’t deliver.”

Doesn’t matter. Just as it wouldn’t matter if i was the one that didn’t deliver part of the price for HoT expansion to them. You’d really think that they would care whether i am unwilling or unable to pay, or try to see this in any good light?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Yeah, they should have known better than to take up a project that isn’t reasonable for them to complete right now, but sometimes kittens happen, and we’re all watching how they take responsibility for that.

Yes. And at this moment they don’t.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Also, as has been stated previously, there is no way such a choice was taken lightly or without examining the laws…

Sure. There’s not much that a customer can do beyond getting a refund, and i’m sure they hope most of the players won’t go that far.
Still, that doesn’t change that they took the money and didn’t deliver. And i have full right to be angry about it.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

..another way to look at it might be the “people I see as mature” don’t have an over-inflated sense of money value. *shrugs

It’s the opposite, knowing the value of money is considered usually as one of signs of maturity.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And it’s reasonable to listen to when the people you paid can’t deliver, their reasons for it, and their offers of remuneration however they’re offered….

They offer none. Besides, as i have mentioned already, i sincerely doubt they’d be listening if the situation was reversed.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Throwing a temper tantrum is the purview of children.

True, but on the other hand Anet has shown long ago that in situations like this they don’t react to calm arguments and are moved only by mobs with torches and pitchforks.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And, if you think they’re villains, why are you bothering hanging around in their forums after you’ve made your position clear time and again?

Perhaps because there are individuals among us who, for reasons known only to them, seem determined to whitewash (see also: obscure, obfuscate, hide) the fact that Anet took their customers’ money and then decided they didn’t have to deliver what those customers paid for. Among these individuals are those who exhibit a curious tendency to go to great lengths in their singular attempts to disparage the feelings of those who have come here to express their displeasure about not receiving what they paid for.

One would almost think these individuals were motivated by feelings of guilt, but such would surely be beyond the realm of reason.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

You read the announcement as “refuse to deliver,” and I read it as, “can’t deliver.

Not really based on the announcement alone.
They have 70 devs working on the next expac. Clearly, ANET has enough money to pay for the development of the next expac. And apparently ANET doesn’t have enough money to pay for the development of the features that they already sold.
So yea, they COULD deliver it – but are REFUSING to do so.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Yeah, they should have known better than to take up a project that isn’t reasonable for them to complete right now, but sometimes kittens happen, and we’re all watching how they take responsibility for that

If your payment to ANET gets canceled, ANET won’t hesitate to ban your account. They won’t consider the “kitten happens” factor. They will simply act as a company and demand the user to act accordingly as well.
I see no reason why a customer should acknowledge their errors and bad company choices and just let them be, while there’s money involved.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Also, as has been stated previously, there is no way such a choice was taken lightly or without examining the laws

Yea, you stated it. And you have no proof of that.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And, if you think they’re villains, why are you bothering hanging around in their forums after you’ve made your position clear time and again?

You don’t let the villains be, you try to fight them and make a change.
Why don’t you leave since you made your position clear time and again?

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

..another way to look at it might be the “people I see as mature” don’t have an over-inflated sense of money value. shrugs

Sadly it’s not over-inflated in many countries. If it is in yours, that’s good for you. There are countries where 50€ is half of a monthly wage. And even if that wouldn’t be the case, the attitude alone, to be not just okay with the fact that your trade was unfair, but that you even support such action, only shows how “mature” this type of people really are.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

What decision a person comes to after they feel they’ve given the situation due consideration isn’t meekly accepting anything… it doesn’t matter whether that conclusion is “I hate ANet” or “whatevs.” A considered decision is never meek… neither are the people willing to take the time to talk about it.

Well, I think anyone who gently and quietly accepted ANET’s decision on canceling the development of the expansion to get to the promoted state we already paid for, decided meekly.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

No, that’s budgeting and resource allocation

Yes, an unreasonable budgeting and resource allocation. If working on a new expansion is not only slowing down but actually freezing the development of the expansion players already bought, then they should relocate their resources.
They are building the second floor while the first floor is getting on fire.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Just because one feature

You mean several, right? I’m sure you meant several. As educated as you are about this whole matter, I’m sure you did a research of all the features that got canceled or not being “currently worked on”.

but not as much as ceasing development all together on the other things they’re working on to put more time into something that is currently a money/development sink.

Take away 6 devs from the 70 devs in the expac team, you’ll end up with 64 devs. Still doing what they were doing, just 8.62% slower (meaning, instead of releasing the next expac in 20 months, they would release it 1 month later. This means their profit would be DELAYED by 1-2 month.
Take away 6 devs from the 6 devs in the legy team, you’ll end up with 0 devs. 0 devs = No progress at any rate.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

And it’s reasonable to listen to when the people you paid can’t deliver, their reasons for it, and their offers of remuneration however they’re offered…. because sometimes in life things won’t go your way, and the more you know the better position you are in to make informed decisions

In a trade where I’m involved things will go my way. If I held my end of the deal, I expect the other side to do the same. I can accept the fact that sometimes bad things happen; and that’s why I’m open to other options – However, ANET didn’t actually present any. They acted on their own behalf and that was it.
Yea, bad things happen, however, you’re supposed to deal with those bad things by yourself or you could ASK for help.
ANET didn’t do that. They simply acted on their own without consulting with the customers who already paid to get the product in the state that it was promoted.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Stating you’re upset, considering the facts you have and your available options, then deciding what to do about it in a calm manner is the expectation for adults.

How about you first stop being so holier than tho’?
And to answer to this insult. No, that’s not how things always work.
It is also an expectation for adults that they would have some sense for money value. Which you clearly don’t since you’re okay with the fact that ANET took your money but didn’t deliver the product as promoted. I’m sure you’ll “see this situation in a different way” tho,
“where ANET is the victim who simply wanted all the best for the community”.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

more investment by the company into sustainable content as a substitute for the content they couldn’t sustain

So the compensation for the customers who bought the expansion and got the expac feature canceled, would essentially be the sustainable CORE content which everyone gets for free.
ROFL. Yea, you have a GREAT sense for trading. Not to mention that the company is supposed to ask the customer if they are okay with the change. Clearly, something on this level can’t be done in such manner, so a partial refund should be in order (it’s being practiced with e-goods since 2015)

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

This thread is evidence enough that it’s a bad idea for them to ‘advertise’ what they’re working on before it’s finished

Not at all, this thread is evidence enough that it’s a bad idea for them to cancel the development of the content we actually paid for.

so it’s reasonable to conclude you won’t know what you’re getting in remuneration until it goes live.

Which, as a customer who just got his ordered item changed in a way I didn’t want, I find extremely offensive.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Leave, stay, wait and see, talk with a lawyer, withhold money from future purchases, whatever… But, show some initiative and make a choice beyond raging on a forum.

You must be new here. That’s exactly to what ANET reacts. “Raging” on a forum and other social media.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

]
I was talking about general content drought. You can’t complain about the content drought until you have a single unfinished Achievement.

That’s a matter of opinion. Again, it’s unreasonable for Anet to simply deliver ANY kind of content, no matter how costly it is just because of ‘content drought’.

As a matter of fact, I suspect those devs they took off Legendary development are being put onto content that will deal with whatever lack of it you think exists to get it to us faster.

So the content drought argument for keeping Legendary development … is nonsense. The legendary development cancellation is to address content drought, it doesn’t cause it. You haven’t seen a new legendary since release until now, and it’s just one …. THAT’S content drought. Legendary development CAUSES content drought; having handfuls of devs making content you see a small fraction of every 6 months. That’s just ridiculous and Anet made the right decision to stop it.

Well lets go one step further lets cancel legendary armor aswell since that is even harder to make then 12 weapons, as others have stated its 18 pieces totaly then then have to be made to fit 10 dif race/genders.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Your local store advertises buy one get one free cans of green beans, you go there and they’re out of green beans, they give you a substitute of corn (or a rain-check for a future visit, or whatever). Substitutes happen frequently enough.

And that rain check is the very monetary compensation I was talking about. The rain check is offered because the consumer cannot be expected to accept another product. In fact, advertising a product that you intend on substituting with another product is called “bait and switch”, and is usually illegal. Not that I’m claiming ’"bait and switch" applies to Anet in this case, though there are some similarities.

And the store determines what that compensation is… if they choose to make it a rain check, then so be it… but they don’t always. Heck, in this example the rain check can be equated to “indefinitely suspended.” You can get the green beans when they’re back in the store, but no eta on when that is.

There might be some similarities, but it’s not bait-and-switch if the company intended to make good from the outset… as I’ve said earlier, they can prove they made that effort (to me it’s evident). Intent plays a role in this, and their intent was to provide that content; not dupe their customer base. Kitten just sometimes happens, even to those with the best of plans and intentions.

Villainizing ANet for this decision may help some people to justify their rage/anger/hatred over the decision… but it also keeps those same people from seeing other parts of the picture and come to a reasoned decision about what they wish to do in response. Us vs Them anger helps no one.

~EW

Well Anet better give me the next expansion then becouse i intend to pay them but im not going to becouse that particular part of my funds are “indefinitely suspended”

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Obtena.7952:

You don’t work at Anet, so whatever you’re facts are, I doubt they have the proper context to frame them properly. What I know is, you don’t understand that Legendary development is causing the content drought that you think Legendary weapons are necessary to fill. You’re just grasping at any straw at this point to justify keeping Legendary development; even the ones that go against your position.

Well at least what i’m saying is based on actual facts.
What you are saying are ideas and theories based literally only on their latest action.
You disprove any other fact (even those that came directly from ANET) and keep talking.

Telling others they are wrong when they provided facts, while trying to convince everyone else that you are right based on your fabricated theory.. I mean…
And then you go and say that I’m the one grasping the straw.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Legendary development fills the content drought … do you work at Anet? Do you know how many man hours it takes to implement other aspects of the game compared to Legendaries? I get you have some facts, you just don’t have any context to make conclusions from them that tells you those devs on that content is the best way to alleviate content drought.

Yes it do it fill the content drought for high grind pve players same as armor do for high end raiders.

Obtena.7952:

Spira.4578:

Which brings us to the original issue: Customers paid, ANET didn’t provide.

OK, which brings me back to the same statement I made before; Anet attempted to deliver that content in good faith. there isn’t some conspiracy to steal from people or cheat them. Anet sincerely wanted to get that content to people; they realize they can’t do it. This is just a reality of their current business situation. There was never a plan to cancel Legendary development 6 months after HoT.

There isn’t any right or wrong here. If it wasn’t Leg. Weapons, it would be something else. Anet expect people to be angry; hence this thread. I mean, the whole POINT of this thread is to allow players to make the decisions and take the options they have available to them for playing the game or not. People paint Anet as villians and cowards when in fact, this thread was a very up front and responsible approach for them as a company to treat us as customers.

But having done 19 before expansion launched, shouldent that have some how indicated to them if they would be able to ship the other 16?

Edit
Sorry its 20 normal ones consdering dusk and dawn my bad.