Guild Wars 2

Sird.4536:

Linken.6345:

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

And your sure Colin the middle man was responsible?

Colin was game director from the start. He drove the game to where it is and if he couldn’t handle the work load then yes he is responsible.

Mike O’Brien was in charge of the game from the start. He had been Colin’s Boss since day one. He basically approves or denies policy, He is the one responsible overall. I am sure Colin had his hand in it but to try and say it was Colin and that Mike O’Brien is the hero coming in to clean up is just dumb.

Working on Nevermore… This is not my first legendary… Nevermore may be my last… some of the ingredients are beyond rational… I can understand you wanting players to do the story… but things like 2200 crests or orbs is just beyond reason. I’ve played 3,000 hrs in this game and maybe seen 25 or 30 of these… which means I have to buy them… Did you really need to make it items that you also tell every guild in the game that they need for their guild halls? 500 gp for part of on part of a part is unreasonable… Things like this make me wonder if perhaps I should be look at other games…

Dinks.2478:

Sird.4536:

Linken.6345:

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

And your sure Colin the middle man was responsible?

Colin was game director from the start. He drove the game to where it is and if he couldn’t handle the work load then yes he is responsible.

Mike O’Brien was in charge of the game from the start. He had been Colin’s Boss since day one. He basically approves or denies policy, He is the one responsible overall. I am sure Colin had his hand in it but to try and say it was Colin and that Mike O’Brien is the hero coming in to clean up is just dumb.

Never said Mike was coming in as a hero. He as much as Colin are to blame but for most of the player base I guess Colin was the face of this expansion.

Sird.4536:

Dinks.2478:

Sird.4536:

Linken.6345:

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

And your sure Colin the middle man was responsible?

Colin was game director from the start. He drove the game to where it is and if he couldn’t handle the work load then yes he is responsible.

Mike O’Brien was in charge of the game from the start. He had been Colin’s Boss since day one. He basically approves or denies policy, He is the one responsible overall. I am sure Colin had his hand in it but to try and say it was Colin and that Mike O’Brien is the hero coming in to clean up is just dumb.

Never said Mike was coming in as a hero. He as much as Colin are to blame but for most of the player base I guess Colin was the face of this expansion.

…and that could be why he was thrown under the bus.

Assuming he was, which I don’t honestly know in this case, but that is how these things tend to work.

Sird.4536:

Warcry.1596:

But I don’t see how that applies here Zudet.

Besides, who is going to pay for “promises”? I bought Heart of Thorns because it is Guild Wars 2. I will it the next expansion because it is Guild Wars 2. If a company says they have big ideas but later on find out they’re unable to use them, sure it sucks, that is life. It happens all the time and I don’t fault anyone for when it happens.

A lot of people bought HoT because of what they said was coming with it. We are 6 months in and so far they have not delivered on half of it and we have no idea when we will get the other half. If there was a timeline I would be fine but at this point I have no idea what I spent my money on.

That’s an odd spending habit then =/ I paid for the content and features; the maps, the elite specializations, my guild having a home just to name a few. The stuff they said they wanted too implement or were going to implement are ALWAYS subject to change so I don’t really let my self get excited about it. It’s nice to have, but doesn’t take away from the expansion in any way.

Warcry.1596:

Sird.4536:

Warcry.1596:

But I don’t see how that applies here Zudet.

Besides, who is going to pay for “promises”? I bought Heart of Thorns because it is Guild Wars 2. I will it the next expansion because it is Guild Wars 2. If a company says they have big ideas but later on find out they’re unable to use them, sure it sucks, that is life. It happens all the time and I don’t fault anyone for when it happens.

A lot of people bought HoT because of what they said was coming with it. We are 6 months in and so far they have not delivered on half of it and we have no idea when we will get the other half. If there was a timeline I would be fine but at this point I have no idea what I spent my money on.

That’s an odd spending habit then =/ I paid for the content and features; the maps, the elite specializations, my guild having a home just to name a few. The stuff they said they wanted too implement or were going to implement are ALWAYS subject to change so I don’t really let my self get excited about it. It’s nice to have, but doesn’t take away from the expansion in any way.

They were planning on implementing everything they said was coming. If they had said we have plans to introduce 16 new legendaries then sure but it’s not what they said. New legendaries are coming and in stages, not new legendaries are planned and they could give way to other content instead.

Sird.4536:

Ticky.5831:

I understand that raids are content you folks aren’t interested in. And it’s ok to be not interested in it and to say you want the content you want, and to voice your complaints about your favored content not coming in.

It’s just ridiculous to call it a content drought when new content is regularly coming in. That’s called denial.

What new content? The only new content we have seen are raids (which I do). Other then that the only part of the game that has never failed to deliver content is the gem store.

Raids. Raids are the content I’m talking about.

Payne.3184:

Working on Nevermore… This is not my first legendary… Nevermore may be my last… some of the ingredients are beyond rational… I can understand you wanting players to do the story… but things like 2200 crests or orbs is just beyond reason. I’ve played 3,000 hrs in this game and maybe seen 25 or 30 of these… which means I have to buy them… Did you really need to make it items that you also tell every guild in the game that they need for their guild halls? 500 gp for part of on part of a part is unreasonable… Things like this make me wonder if perhaps I should be look at other games…

If you harvest a dozen or so T6 nodes every day you get both T6 materials and a decent chance at orbs. Let these pile up and every time there is a mystic forge daily you probably will have enough to make an amalgamated gemstone or more. Selling those materials can get you some dust to convert your crystals you get from all the T5 nodes you harvest. Orbs and Crests come in splendid chests pretty often and if you collect and forge all your medallions which drop much more often you can get crests and orbs as well. I am up to 17 crystalline ingots with zero copper spent in a month or so with little effort. I could have double that with not much more effort, but lack of a Legendary I am really interested in has kept the pace slow. (Forgot to mention the Guild gathering bonus for extra chances at orbs. Getting orb drops now makes my gaming a little more fun.)

Obtena.7952:

That’s debateable. What exactly makes them a key part of the endgame content? They don’t unlock anything. They aren’t a step up in performance over Ascended weapons. The stat swapping function isn’t useful.

I can not agree with that. The stat swapping function is the most important part of them (for me). I use some of my legendaries on more than one character. In the long term that is helping me to save materials & time to make more ascended weapons. I can sell the maths (or just don’t do the farming of maths for them) and use the money for something else i would like to have.

And they are a long term goal for may players (not very specific end contant, but a long term goal). I know more than one player who is saying “i’m working on my first legendary, it still need some time, but every time i’m logging in, i do a little bit for it”.

So please do not generalize something as “not useful” just because you can not make a use of it.

You can just argue who’s fault is this. You won’t get refunds, compensations, you won’t get any content for a long time. But you will get new expansion for 45€(60$). I am done with this and will concentrate my money elsewhere soooo…

…I just bought BDO. See ya there

A drought does not mean a complete absence, but rather an insufficiency. I live in an area that has been in its worst drought in over a thousand years, but we still get rain.

I do not think that the existence of raids means that there is not a content drought.

Ashen.2907:

A drought does not mean a complete absence, but rather an insufficiency. I live in an area that has been in its worst drought in over a thousand years, but we still get rain.

I do not think that the existence of raids means that there is not a content drought.

Well, raids are pretty much the only thing MMOs(in general) are expected to come out with between expansions.

So by the general standards, either it’s not a content drought, or MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought.

Ticky.5831:

Ashen.2907:

A drought does not mean a complete absence, but rather an insufficiency. I live in an area that has been in its worst drought in over a thousand years, but we still get rain.

I do not think that the existence of raids means that there is not a content drought.

Well, raids are pretty much the only thing MMOs(in general) are expected to come out with between expansions.

So by the general standards, either it’s not a content drought, or MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought.

This is a specific MMO, not one in general. It has its own standards of content release expectations. Establishment of those expectations was intentional on the part of the developers. A state of drought is measured compared to something’s own specific norm.

Personally, Ive only played a few MMOs, but none of them released only raids in between expansions. Your experience, likely more expansive than mine, may be different.

Ticky.5831:

Well, raids are pretty much the only thing MMOs(in general) are expected to come out with between expansions.

So by the general standards, either it’s not a content drought, or MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought.

I don’t think you can apply those general standards to this game quite so easily. At least not yet.

ArenaNet themselves have been setting certain expectations in the past… most notable success story of which is their no downtime updates. GW1 had in 7 years total downtime that could be measured in a handful of days. GW2’s track record is equally impressive, although slightly behind in terms of raw numbers.

The other, not so successful expectation was the expectation that we would be getting frequent content updates in the truest meaning of the words. I can see that this is not sustainable because for the entirety of the old LW cycle some part of the company was in permanent pre-release crunch for their 15 minutes, or two weeks, of fame.

Those expectations are still present, even if the content model is changing. With a single expansion pack it definitely hasn’t changed yet. Once they get the second expansion out the door we will have something to form an expectation on “what to get between expansions” or what their expansion cadence is like for GW2.

The general MMO standards are hardly applicable as is to this game, especially when they added their first raid wing mere months ago. All the more when ArenaNet considers themselves somewhat of a pioneer with varying degrees of success.

What we are in now, definitely qualifies as a content drought in the context of this game. During the pre-release period of HoT people were okay with it, because most of us wanted that expansion style drop of content. But we are past that now, and those old expectations are creeping up on us… with no pre-release “hype” to keep us occupied.

Ticky.5831:

Ashen.2907:

A drought does not mean a complete absence, but rather an insufficiency. I live in an area that has been in its worst drought in over a thousand years, but we still get rain.

I do not think that the existence of raids means that there is not a content drought.

Well, raids are pretty much the only thing MMOs(in general) are expected to come out with between expansions.

So by the general standards, either it’s not a content drought, or MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought.

I believe that MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought — it takes far more time to develop content than to play through it, unless you make it especially grindy.

Ticky.5831:

Sird.4536:

Ticky.5831:

I understand that raids are content you folks aren’t interested in. And it’s ok to be not interested in it and to say you want the content you want, and to voice your complaints about your favored content not coming in.

It’s just ridiculous to call it a content drought when new content is regularly coming in. That’s called denial.

What new content? The only new content we have seen are raids (which I do). Other then that the only part of the game that has never failed to deliver content is the gem store.

Raids. Raids are the content I’m talking about.

The raid content has been stingy to say the least. At least compared to some other MMO’s i’ve played. In other MMO’s raid have 6-9 bosses, come out every 3-4 months and take 1-2 months to complete, and 2-4 months to complete all the gearing/achievements.

So far in GW2 each raid has had 3 bosses, released every 3-4 months, taken 1-2 days to complete and has no gearing or achievements other than clearing the raid.

I’ve certainly enjoyed the raids, and do them weekly, but they are fairly stingy compared to other MMO’s raids. It is more like a content trickle then a drought.

ekarat.1085:

Ticky.5831:

Ashen.2907:

A drought does not mean a complete absence, but rather an insufficiency. I live in an area that has been in its worst drought in over a thousand years, but we still get rain.

I do not think that the existence of raids means that there is not a content drought.

Well, raids are pretty much the only thing MMOs(in general) are expected to come out with between expansions.

So by the general standards, either it’s not a content drought, or MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought.

I believe that MMOs in general are in a constant state of content drought — it takes far more time to develop content than to play through it, unless you make it especially grindy.

This is completely true. It’s just not possible to make content at the rate players are able to complete it. Raids in other MMOs “last longer” because they typically take longer to get through and give more reason to repeat, or even grind. But those MMOs are still going to be in a constant state of drought and declining players between the release of expansions or other major content drops.

Right now GW2 doesn’t have raids, it has part of a single raid. And that is still lacking the big reward for doing a raid, legendary armor progress. Combine this with HoT being rather light on content itself, and you end up with a noticeable content drought in short order despite being mere months from an expansion release.

There is a funny thing about the word drought. A drought doesn’t necessarily end because it rains. Rain levels has to come back up to a normal and stable level. Just like that I don’t think small content releases at erratic and unpredictable times necessarily end a content drought.

This thread has nothing to do with a drought it has to do with a contract between 2 parties and one not honoring their end. If you want to complain about a lack of content start another thread and whine there all you want. This is about false advertising which in fact is continuing on the website.

cosmicegg.8502:

This thread has nothing to do with a drought it has to do with a contract between 2 parties and one not honoring their end. If you want to complain about a lack of content start another thread and whine there all you want. This is about false advertising which in fact is continuing on the website.

It’s not the primary issue here, but it’s certainly related to it. The drought was part of their excuse for not honoring their marketing. And that decision, in a somewhat ironic turn, leads to a further (or at least a different) drought for a number of players. This may not be the place to complain about the content drought, but it’s definitely a part of this issue and has a place in the discussion.

And it is kinda funny that the false info is still up on their website. I don’t know if any devs are still paying attention to this thread, but it’s safe to assume that at least some moderators are. And I would think they would at least be able to get word to someone able to address that. It’s been pointed out enough times that they just about have to be aware.

The best thing Mike O’Brien could have said to appease the countless people that are bummed by this is, “Sorry we are cancelling the Legendary Journey portion of the Legendary Weapons. I need that team focused on making new content. You will however be getting the full Black Lion Weapon Skin team on finishing up the Legendaries we promised you back in 2013 and again promised you with HoT.”

The way he did it involved zero compromise on his part to get players what they have been promised two times already with zero results. Quite frankly, it’s unacceptable.

mrstealth.6701:

cosmicegg.8502:

This thread has nothing to do with a drought it has to do with a contract between 2 parties and one not honoring their end. If you want to complain about a lack of content start another thread and whine there all you want. This is about false advertising which in fact is continuing on the website.

It’s not the primary issue here, but it’s certainly related to it. The drought was part of their excuse for not honoring their marketing. And that decision, in a somewhat ironic turn, leads to a further (or at least a different) drought for a number of players. This may not be the place to complain about the content drought, but it’s definitely a part of this issue and has a place in the discussion.

And it is kinda funny that the false info is still up on their website. I don’t know if any devs are still paying attention to this thread, but it’s safe to assume that at least some moderators are. And I would think they would at least be able to get word to someone able to address that. It’s been pointed out enough times that they just about have to be aware.

They seem to be a bit slow in updating the website, in general.

The forum description for the HoT subforum still said “the upcoming HoT expansion” (or words to that effect) for ages after HoT release.

So, I’m guessing it isn’t intentional, but I totally agree it is misleading and amounts to false advertising, either way.

BrotherBelial.3094:

You underestimating how many people do nit care about raids at all. They just want content they can play at any point, with as many or as few friends as they like. I personally don’t care for raids, I have zero interest in them, and I know many people who do feel the same. I also know as many people who enjoy raids. But I have noticed that LFR requests have gone right down. So as far as I see it raids are not as popular as people think they are, or people have there “teams” and that’s it. If your not in a premade raid group, chances are you’ll never see it now. Add in rewards are lock at once a week? You probably have your peak time for doing it, after that, not a chance. Now LS is something everyone can do in there own time. I’ve always favored this content over all others. I can do what I want, when I want to, and don’t have to spend hours preparing to have fun. Wasn’t fun eating for a healer in other games, I can’t see it being fun waiting for the “right” class Imo.

And I think you overestimate how many people are truely interested in Living story, it is the main content delivery system, and guess what GW2 been lacking good content updates for the longest time… Essentially the LS has been temporary conten available in short windows of play, after 2/3weeks people don’t care for it anymore. The big exception being the SW and maybe TT.

LS1: We cant even play it
LS2: Doesn’t provide the same experience right now as it did at launch, but a little bit more content was added ( Mainly SW and TT)
Pre HOT: No updates, every dev was busy with the expansion
HOT: Little content cause they spent so much effort on LS1 and 2
Post HOT: Legendaries get cancelled and still no LS or any major content updates

I ask you, what did LS truely bring us? It delivers temporary experiences content wise, so your notion that you as a casual can play it whenever they want is wrong…. You must play it in timely fashion or you miss out on the experience. At its core this type of temporary experience is casual unfriendly….

The good thing about Living world is it provides us with a dynamic feeling story line, and it gives us a reason to log in and do stuff LW related in game.

The content drought is bound to happen in a MMO, it is irrelevant, players simply need a reason to log in and do stuff. I for example like to make my characters look unique and cool, as did many other people at the start of gw2 when we had NO end game. The legendaries are some of the most unique weapon skins. It gave quite a large part of the community something to do! Just look at how many people in ya guild actually crafted a legendary. Now they frigging cancel this core experience for additional duties like LS3. The proper decision IMO would be to put LS on a pause and work to fix the expansion and do a dungeon / open world boss rework.

I for one do not care much for Living Story, though some story development would be nice I guess. O and the reason people do not put up to many LFGs for raids and wait hours for it to fill up is because they create guild teams. Which cuts down alot of the effort to start a raid. Even still, I do see alot of raid parties pop up.

Let me ask you something, how many achievement groups do still pop up in LFG for LS2….. How many Drytop runs do you see? I only see SW farms in LFG and the occasional TT.

I am not really convinced that it makes you unreasonable if you go to a place that was known for years as a place where good steaks were made(core GW2) and you ask for a steak, you get offered fish not once(wing1) but twice(wing 2) in a row and you don´t order there anymore because you don´t like fish. Of course you do not have to throw a temper tantrum or something because the card has changed. But ok, I don´t work in the food industry and can understand if people get defensive of it because it surely is a tough place to work.

@DutchRiders
You basically answered yourself what makes ls(if it is not that type of stuff like ls2 was) superior to pure addition of raids and game mechanics.
“The good thing about Living world is it provides us with a dynamic feeling story line, and it gives us a reason to log in and do stuff LW related in game.”
Add a dynamic world and I go with you all the way to wherever you want.

Torolan.5816:

I am not really convinced that it makes you unreasonable if you go to a place that was known for years as a place where good steaks were made(core GW2) and you ask for a steak, you get offered fish not once(wing1) but twice(wing 2) in a row and you don´t order there anymore because you don´t like fish. Of course you do not have to throw a temper tantrum or something because the card has changed. But ok, I don´t work in the food industry and can understand if people get defensive of it because it surely is a tough place to work.

@DutchRiders
You basically answered yourself what makes ls(if it is not that type of stuff like ls2 was) superior to pure addition of raids and game mechanics.
“The good thing about Living world is it provides us with a dynamic feeling story line, and it gives us a reason to log in and do stuff LW related in game.”
Add a dynamic world and I go with you all the way to wherever you want.

How about a place that has been known for its steak (core GW2), and still offers steak (core GW2), but, at the request of some portion of the patrons, has added some crab (wing1) and lobster(wing2) to the menu? All the while they announce that they are also working on expanding their steak offerings.

There’s only so many different ways you can cut steaks though before they all start to look and taste the same.

Chrispy.5641:

There’s only so many different ways you can cut fish though before they all start to look and taste the same.

Indeed.^^

Its beena while and still no word whatsoever.. I guess they will get away with it. See ya at xpac #2 with another 3 legendary weapons /shrug

Burtnik.5218:

Its beena while and still no word whatsoever.. I guess they will get away with it. See ya at xpac #2 with another 3 legendary weapons /shrug

What ever made you think they wouldn’t… I am going to be honest, how many months has it been since HoT, yet they only have one weapon completely finished.

I am not going to act as if I know what is the best way to invest the development time of those 6 developers (we don’t even know what their particular skill sets are), but I am pretty sure if this is where they are at what they have been doing up until now isn’t where they can be put to the best use.

I don’t think that a lot of people are ever going to go for more than a couple, maybe one or two legendaries. Some none at all… it sucks that everyone do not get equal choice, in terms of which to go for, because some weapons will have more legendaries than others, however, that is just how the cookie crumbled.

This wasn’t really ever a discussion on whether they should move ahead with this decision or not, they simply let us know what had already been decided. They didn’t actually have to do that or they could have waited until those six people had produced some other piece of content so they could have said " — but they brought you this instead".

It is by no means an excuse, and yeah they definitely should update all HoT marketing material now, however, the fact remains we never hear about a whole lot of stuff going on at ArenaNet when it comes to content in development. Things change and not always for the better, we have no grounds to claim that it wasn’t their intention to deliver all legendary weapons as promised or that they didn’t put all reasonable effort into delivering on those promises before this shift in priorities,

Do they take a PR hit for this? Definitely, but I don’t doubt that they knew it the moment they announced this… and they decided to take it anyways.

Burtnik.5218:

Its beena while and still no word whatsoever.. I guess they will get away with it. See ya at xpac #2 with another 3 legendary weapons /shrug

Well the issue here is why is Anet failing so hard at making content they announced. Are they really so incompetent as far as planning the development of content?

1- They announced the legendarires in 2013…
2- Then they had an expansion announced which was advertised as including that content that was delayed already so much, so we were like: ok since it’s so hard for you to make content we’ll pay for it.
3- Then 6 months after the expansion is out they’re like "it’s too hard we give up, here is all we have, 4 skins.

Like seriously, shame on you Anet, how can you fail that bad at planning content with a team of paid employees? The production output of development team must be verified regularly in order to correct the projected timeline and have a realistic deadline for bulk content release. It’s either (1) a management disaster so epic it is so far unseen in video game companies, or (2) they lied from the beginning just to sell an expansion and had nobody working on them (they just recycled old skins like Nevermore which was made years ago).

I tend to believe the later, I can’t believe you can fail that much.

They can’t release them with expansion 2 now, it would be like charging twice for the same product and that is illegal.

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

Xillllix.3485:

Burtnik.5218:

Its beena while and still no word whatsoever.. I guess they will get away with it. See ya at xpac #2 with another 3 legendary weapons /shrug

Well the issue here is why is Anet failing so hard at making content they announced. Are they really so incompetent as far as planning the development of content?

1- They announced the legendarires in 2013…
2- Then they had an expansion announced which was advertised as including that content that was delayed already so much, so we were like: ok since it’s so hard for you to make content we’ll pay for it.
3- Then 6 months after the expansion is out they’re like "it’s too hard we give up, here is all we have, 4 skins.

Like seriously, shame on you Anet, how can you fail that bad at planning content with a team of paid employees? The production output of development team must be verified regularly in order to correct the projected timeline and have a realistic deadline for bulk content release. It’s either (1) a management disaster so epic it is so far unseen in video game companies, or (2) they lied from the beginning just to sell an expansion and had nobody working on them (they just recycled old skins like Nevermore which was made years ago).

I tend to believe the later, I can’t believe you can fail that much.

They can’t release them with expansion 2 now, it would be like charging twice for the same product and that is illegal.

The worst part is that after HoT launched they came straight out and said that it takes 1 month per legendary. This was after they had already done 23 of them. There is absolutely no reason they shouldn’t know how much work it would take, and they told us. Yet 6 months later instead of 6 legendary’s we are getting 1 and canceling the rest.

And now they won’t even acknowledge their screw up.

Burtnik.5218:

Its beena while and still no word whatsoever.. I guess they will get away with it. See ya at xpac #2 with another 3 legendary weapons /shrug

They are getting away with in the sense that I haven’t seen any news of class action suits.

As for their income, that may be another story.

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

Are you just ignoring his replies then?

Smells like poor resource management and project planning for which the paying players should not suffer.

Also smacks of false advertising. You need to ship what you said you would ship (and what people have paid for). Deliver what people have PAID for first – everything else comes after that.

So, people, vote with your wallets and time — don’t spend another dollar in the Gem Store (which seems to have no end of new and exciting updates, /sarcasm/) and log into a more deserving game until this has been addressed appropriately.

GreyWolf.8670:

They are getting away with in the sense that I haven’t seen any news of class action suits.

As for their income, that may be another story.

They’ll get away with it because we still like this game, as evidenced by the number of people that care enough about it to complain about this. Those people will likely desire to continue playing, which makes exacting some financial penalty upon ArenaNet somewhat problematic.

Refunds are a paper cut, and you can’t play after you get your $50 back. And why would you? Not having the expansion doesn’t undo it’s consequences, and you’re just locking yourself out of anything that does get released.

Lawsuits are a non-starter. $50 damages won’t get you into court. I suspect any case capable of doing anything might just result in ArenaNet walking away, and then no one plays.

I posted this in a thread about ’Let’s help Anet make a well-priced Xpack’ as a response to something Jafw wrote, but I think it’s also very fitting here, so I’ll share:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

How can we set a fair price on the next expansion when they haven’t fully delivered this one and give every indication that they’re not going to? Let them finish this one, then we’ll talk about the price of the next.

This, time and again.

Plus, their policy on issues are all over the place. The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing and the customer is smack in the middle of the inconsistencies. AFK pet/minion farming intended according to the person who handles that (seriously!?). Look at this comment link from Gaile Grey not supporting the afk stance (but not “officially”). All over the place hot mess.

Then we have a different ANet rep giving the go ahead on exploiting unintended features during things like SAB because best guess is, it’s not breaking the game economy, so, just turn the other cheek.. I guess and address it …later? Okay. No matter, save ya on those tickets, but others go unanswered/unresolved.. I’ve seen bots, clear botting that I’ve reported. I’ve been playing online games since UO..and played many since then, however, when the response to a bot or someone deep afk but nabbin’ their loot/karma/exp/etc is to essentially say, “have at it for now!” (or forever for all we know), by ignoring it, I start looking for other games to go enjoy, because that’s a sign to me that the company isn’t wanting to put resources into stopping exploiting, for whatever reason.

Reporting names? Well. There have been naming policy changes you have to keep up on too, outside of the ones listed here. Still, be sure to submit an actual ticket, because anything short of that goes to some void, and even after ticket submission, it still took more time than it should have (and a poor review) for someone to do something about the issues I reported. Plain nasty names, nothing remotely cute or clever. Just gross.

Where is our State of the Game Update —Q2 2016 that we were told to expect start of April with the next state of the game blog? Or, are we going full blown into Spring Quarterly Update blind, with no idea really of what this will entail except the few items vaguely mentioned in that “Upcoming changes in Spring Quarterly Update” err..post?

Things feel very scattered and some consolidation of policy, ideas, at least a meeting of the minds before tossing stuff out en mass for us to decipher on our own seems like a good idea. Finally, the product that was already sold to all of us should be secured, policies enforced, etc. everything in place and properly delivered before dreams of Grandmama Pale Trees come to pass, let alone, a price setting.

Good luck, Mo. Things truly are not going smoothly. I hope your April update is a wowzer. This game is going to need it.

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

Actually the original post does include a preemptive response to player reaction to the announcement.

Ashen.2907:

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

Actually the original post does include a preemptive response to player reaction to the announcement.

Slapping us in the facing and telling bold faced lies isn’t what i’d call an appropriate response.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Ashen.2907:

cosmicegg.8502:

Obtena.7952:

cosmicegg.8502:

56 pages on this thread and no response, everyone must be busy writing advertisements for expansion number 2.

You got a response in the very first post from THE head guy. Maybe you missed it.

actually that wasn’t a response that was an announcement, they have yet to respond to our reactions to that announcement but I can understand your confusion over complex concepts such as this one.

Actually the original post does include a preemptive response to player reaction to the announcement.

Slapping us in the facing and telling bold faced lies isn’t what i’d call an appropriate response.

I didn’t comment on the desirability or content of the response. I merely pointed out that MO had, in fact, posted a response, preemptively, to concerns raised in the thread.

I very much doubt that there are any posts here that raise points he did not consider in advance of his post. The original post surely takes everything said since into consideration with the possible exception of the, “half an expansion,” posts that he did respond to. To be honest those responses worry me because they imply that MO was surprised that (some) players held that view of HoT. This further seems to imply that he considers HoT to be sufficiently large, by MMO expansion standards, to be above reproach in this regard.

When players are saying “half an expansion” they are talking about value, that it wasn’t $60 worth of expansion in their mind but only $30. MO’s saw “half an expansion” as suggesting that they didn’t deliver on half what was promised during the HoT announcement Jan 2015 at PAX South.

Behellagh.1468:

When players are saying “half an expansion” they are talking about value, that it wasn’t $60 worth of expansion in their mind but only $30. MO’s saw “half an expansion” as suggesting that they didn’t deliver on half what was promised during the HoT announcement Jan 2015 at PAX South.

Imo i feel they would make far more money if it was cheaper. Also that no slot for basic version fiasco for revenant. Both caused rage on community part. And lets be honest here, we cant really call HoT an expansion, its moree like boxed ls3/dlc.

Thing is people beg for expansion as Anet development was and is slow as kitten for unknow reason to us. New legendaries that was supposed to come in 2013, new professions skills over time and so on.. and yet here we are, 4 legendaries and elite specs (just one per class!) locked behind paywall and on top of that res tof legendaries is basically canceled. No discount for vets on price etc.

Many actually looking for april update in all gamemodes, if they fail to deliver i bet they will lose a large part of playerbase. We all know what how terrible S2 pvp for example along with op braindead elite specs. Its literally their last chance to get out of this hole.

Forum bug yolo, will you ever fix it?

Burtnik.5218:

Behellagh.1468:

When players are saying “half an expansion” they are talking about value, that it wasn’t $60 worth of expansion in their mind but only $30. MO’s saw “half an expansion” as suggesting that they didn’t deliver on half what was promised during the HoT announcement Jan 2015 at PAX South.

Imo i feel they would make far more money if it was cheaper. Also that no slot for basic version fiasco for revenant. Both caused rage on community part. And lets be honest here, we cant really call HoT an expansion, its moree like boxed ls3/dlc.

Thing is people beg for expansion as Anet development was and is slow as kitten for unknow reason to us. New legendaries that was supposed to come in 2013, new professions skills over time and so on.. and yet here we are, 4 legendaries and elite specs (just one per class!) locked behind paywall and on top of that res tof legendaries is basically canceled. No discount for vets on price etc.

Many actually looking for april update in all gamemodes, if they fail to deliver i bet they will lose a large part of playerbase. We all know what how terrible S2 pvp for example along with op braindead elite specs. Its literally their last chance to get out of this hole.

Well we did get new skills and adjusted traits in the years before the expansion, obviously not as many or as build altering as you wanted but the issue there is always about balance.

They did eventually tell us in 2013 that new legendaries weren’t coming. Whether it was an issue of needing to set up the infrastructure needed for collections or that they couldn’t rationalize the manpower required while the game was only making cash shop income we’ll never know. This decision could be the result of the expansion NOT selling as well as they expected.

As for your last point, then there is going to be a lot of players disappointed because this April’s update will center around cleaning up/restructuring HoT so you could jump in game for a half an hour and actually get some progression/rewards. Sure there are other changes as well but nothing revolutionary and nothing in terms of playable content in core Tyria. Another pass at Fractals, tweaking systems in neo-WvW for play testing and lowering scribe costs. Also once PvP league is over another “balance” change.

But opening up the content taps, no we won’t see any of that until July the earliest. We might get a returning festival but nothing substantial outside of the HoT maps. Maybe I’ll be surprised.

Just one misstep after another. Having faith in this game at this point is delusional.

I don’t have any vested interest in this game at the moment, but I do try to be helpful when I should be doing other things and am avoiding them:

I skimmed the red posts in this thread, using the arrows, and I have to say, the first post was solid communication. After that, I feel you’re being too confrontational with people. Focusing on the negative and calling attention to it makes you look bad in my eyes.

It’s not that I think you’re bad at what you do or something. It’s that on a fundamental psychological level, seeing most of the red posts focused on refuting player concerns adds up to something negative.

You made a tough decision – cool. You explained why – even cooler. You don’t need to justify it after that point. You can extrapolate if you feel you didn’t explain things well enough. You can commiserate. You can do as you did and focus on refuting those who are upset and are making arguments that are detrimental to the product you worked so hard on. But it won’t make you look good, of that I’m sure.

This is something I’ve seen more than once from different Anet staff members. I know it’s not what the thread is about – delete what I’ve said if that bothers you. I’m only saying it right now out of a genuine urge to be helpful. Maybe you don’t realize what it looks like.

Talking about something you love to people who are upset is a very difficult thing to do. What you gotta remember is… the people who are going to be upset are going to be upset, no matter what you say. How you handle their reactions says far more than the tough decision itself. Some people just aren’t going to be on your side, but this isn’t a comedian against a heckler in a podunk comedy club… here, you look stronger by letting those people spin their wheels and focusing on your message.

Every red post that gives negativity airtime over positivity is just giving a voice to the negativity. And by negativity, I don’t mean constructive, well-thought-out feedback. I mean, hateful, mean-spirited (and often exaggerated) comments.

It’s one of the first things I learned about the internet over the years from hanging out on internet forums. The best way to get a topic of conversation to die is to ignore it. The best way to ensure that more people see it is to fight about it.

Labjax.2465:

I don’t have any vested interest in this game at the moment, but I do try to be helpful when I should be doing other things and am avoiding them:

I skimmed the red posts in this thread, using the arrows, and I have to say, the first post was solid communication. After that, I feel you’re being too confrontational with people. Focusing on the negative and calling attention to it makes you look bad in my eyes.

It’s not that I think you’re bad at what you do or something. It’s that on a fundamental psychological level, seeing most of the red posts focused on refuting player concerns adds up to something negative.

You made a tough decision – cool. You explained why – even cooler. You don’t need to justify it after that point. You can extrapolate if you feel you didn’t explain things well enough. You can commiserate. You can do as you did and focus on refuting those who are upset and are making arguments that are detrimental to the product you worked so hard on. But it won’t make you look good, of that I’m sure.

This is something I’ve seen more than once from different Anet staff members. I know it’s not what the thread is about – delete what I’ve said if that bothers you. I’m only saying it right now out of a genuine urge to be helpful. Maybe you don’t realize what it looks like.

Talking about something you love to people who are upset is a very difficult thing to do. What you gotta remember is… the people who are going to be upset are going to be upset, no matter what you say. How you handle their reactions says far more than the tough decision itself. Some people just aren’t going to be on your side, but this isn’t a comedian against a heckler in a podunk comedy club… here, you look stronger by letting those people spin their wheels and focusing on your message.

Every red post that gives negativity airtime over positivity is just giving a voice to the negativity. And by negativity, I don’t mean constructive, well-thought-out feedback. I mean, hateful, mean-spirited (and often exaggerated) comments.

It’s one of the first things I learned about the internet over the years from hanging out on internet forums. The best way to get a topic of conversation to die is to ignore it. The best way to ensure that more people see it is to fight about it.

No amount of condescension or regret or anything else that is said to us it’s going to stop the customer from feeling cheated if advertised content that was paid for is not delivered so it’s a no-win for him to say anything until he produces the content he was contractually obligated to produce

WTF. I want my money back. Like now.