Guild Wars 2

Nightlark.4029:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Even if a grace period has lapsed, do we know of anyone who’s contacted CS and said, “I bought HoT because of the legendaries, and since they’re indefinitely postponed I’d like a refund on HoT?” Many of the pages of this thread are running together in my mind now, so I don’t recall.

I would be interested in seeing how many people would take such a deal. Are the legendaries really worth so much that you would want a refund if it meant your account would revert back to the status of just owning the “Core” game – meaning no longer being able to use Elite professions, no access to Maguuma, and any other content that requires buying HoT?

They’ve already stated that a refund will result in a permanently banned account so its a moot point.

Just letting Anet know that until this issue is resolved that I will be changing both my metacritic and amazon reviews to 1 star.

Mike O Brien.4613:

One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities.

xD

bananaman.1685:

Ashen.2907:

1) there was no EULA present at the time of the establishment of the initial contract regarding GW2 between myself and Anet.

There has always been a user agreement and you agree to be bound by it with your very first login. You also agree that that it can change and, if you are in Germany, you even get your own special version of it. Your argument to the contrary is naive and ridiculous.

There was no EULA at the time of the establishment of the initial contract regarding GW2 between myself and Anet. The EULA was brought into the business/consumer relationship after the initial contract.

My point is accurate and honest. If you consider accuracy and honesty to be ridiculous that is of course your prerogative, but it does not reflect on me.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Well, its been almost 6 months now since HoT release. If there was a grace period for refunds, it’s undoubtedly past that now since anyone who bought a game 6 months ago would reasonably be assumed by support to have played it past any reasonable refund point.

If there is a grace period it would be based on when the individual bought HoT and not when it released; true… so, yeah, still probably not that helpful who bought it at launch.

Even if a grace period has lapsed, do we know of anyone who’s contacted CS and said, “I bought HoT because of the legendaries, and since they’re indefinitely postponed I’d like a refund on HoT?” Many of the pages of this thread are running together in my mind now, so I don’t recall.

~EW

I just want them to deliver what they promised. I don’t a refund. I enjoy raiding, and I enjoyed the small amount of content HoT had, though I probably won’t pay $50 for that little content in the future knowing they won’t deliver most of it anyway.

Lord Kuru.3685:

You can argue about whether Anet broke a legal contract until you’re blue in the face. But the fact is no one is going to sue Anet over this so that’s all moot.

The important point is that Anet has lost all its credibility with customers, which means sales of the next expansion is going to be even lower than sales of this one.

And you make a good point (which isn’t that hard to figure out). Yes, they probably lost some credibility here. But is this anything new with Arenanet?

Honestly think about it…and its not me being forever disgruntled. Think about all of the major missteps in GW2’s development history starting the the intro to ascended gear and how much of a backlash they received. It was 100x worse than this Legendary issue. Then with the promises to develop up certain items and not delivering properly, or post poning over and over and over. Then literally abandoning certain areas of the game (cough dungeons???)

The list can go on. My point is, honestly, I expect this behavior from Arenanet. They are talented developers (especially the art team!) but from a customer prespective on how they handle their business, it leaves something to be desired.

Now what I really wanted to ask after saying all of that is…Does anyone think Arenanet would have been better off sticking to their original dream/manifesto/vision/promise for the game that they had in early dev and in beta? I mean, the game isn’t dead or anything and isn’t heading in that direction. But whenever someone mentions GW2 it conjures negative opinions because of how Arenanet has handled post-launch development. They have strayed so far from where they started out and from what was hyped/advertised to us and from what we thought we were buying ~3 years ago. Look at all of the pitfalls of their decision making. The white knights say that this is normal for game dev. Maybe, but one could argue that they had a chance to break the mold here and actually deliver on what they hyped to us rather than making decisions from a business perspective. Listen to us, not yourselves sort of mentality.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Mike O Brien.4613:

One thing I believe is that we have to focus on the core game first before taking on additional responsibilities.

xD

The core game. I don’t think he knows what he is talking about.

The core game:

Combat
Personal Story
Dungeons
WvW
The open world
sPvP

Those sorts of things…things that launched with the game. Not things added after the fact like fractals, Living Story, Guild missions, etc.

cesmode.4257:

Does anyone think Arenanet would have been better off sticking to their original dream/manifesto/vision/promise for the game that they had in early dev and in beta?

Hell, I’d give ’em $50 to restore the game to what it was before November 15, 2012. That would almost be an expansion by itself.

Tachenon.5270:

cesmode.4257:

Does anyone think Arenanet would have been better off sticking to their original dream/manifesto/vision/promise for the game that they had in early dev and in beta?

Hell, I’d give ’em $50 to restore the game to what it was before November 15, 2012. That would almost be an expansion by itself.

So say we all. I would as well. It was such an amazing 3 months of pure uncorrupted unmodified unF’d up Guild Wars 2 content. Just wandering the gorgeous world that they built, running dungeons for gear, dabbling in all of the different systems.

There wasn’t any feeling of obligation to obtain anything, there wasn’t any feeling of being left behind. There was just the core game. And it was great.

I find it funny that MO would use the terms “content drought” to justify stopping work on legendaries that were meant to be in the expansion, and then gets infuriated when people mention the expansion wasn’t finished or seems half done.

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

New content over already promised and paid for content is the issue. They aren’t obligated to create new, they are however obligated to fofill they’re current obligations and diverting developers to create another expansion before completing the previous expansion is wrong. If MO is concerned about a lack of content in the core game then he needs to stop development of the next xpac and allocate those resources to his pet projects.

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Ticky.5831:

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

The fact that the only content getting released is a content that a large part of the game population didn’t ever want to see in this game makes the whole situation even worse.

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

Yep.

Or only see what they want to see. Right?

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

They reallocated an entire team from one project to another project. Unfortunately that entire team was only 6 people so good job, we’ll now get the new content to end the drought in 5 months and 2 weeks instead of 6 months. Congrats

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

They reallocated an entire team from one project to another project. Unfortunately that entire team was only 6 people so good job, we’ll now get the new content to end the drought in 5 months and 2 weeks instead of 6 months. Congrats

I won’t argue with your estimates on the times or durations but … EXACTLY. There is more pertinent content that they can probably release faster if they allocate the resources to it. That’s an even more sensible thing to do if those resources are languishing on some dead end project that doesn’t deliver.

I get that people are angry about the cancelation, but there is no way you can defend the release of a single Legendary weapon 6 months after the release of HoT as reasonable delivery on that project … they would have completed the second legendary set in time for the game servers to shut down. GG!

Obtena.7952:

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

They reallocated an entire team from one project to another project. Unfortunately that entire team was only 6 people so good job, we’ll now get the new content to end the drought in 5 months and 2 weeks instead of 6 months. Congrats

I won’t argue with your estimates on the times or durations but … EXACTLY. There is more pertinent content that they can probably release faster if they allocate the resources to it. That’s an even more sensible thing to do if those resources are languishing on some dead end project that doesn’t deliver.

I get that people are angry about the cancelation, but there is no way you can defend the release of a single Legendary weapon 6 months after the release of HoT as reasonable delivery on that project … they would have completed the second legendary set in time for the game servers to shut down. GG!

I’d chalk 6 months to make 1 legendary up to developer incompetence.

edit: well actually I’ll be fair and say it could also be poor management, but that just swings back to blaming Mike O’Brien so either way.

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Then don’t charge $50 for it. It’s not rocket science. Charge for what you can produce or reap… this.

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

I don’t get that. It should should just be a script and some database entries. Isn’t it just a scavenger hunt? That’s intern work.

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Raids are content in the sense that they took (past tense) space on my drive. I had no interest in setting foot in them.

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

Yet they haven’t done so … either they under estimated or they haven’t been focused on it. So seems to me whatever is happening over there … it’s not happening.

Obtena.7952:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

(edit)
That kitten filter. I always forget that I can’t put an “a” in front of “$50” because it thinks $ and 5 are both S’s.
Not even going to fix it this late.

Exactly why they have made this particular decision; to reallocate resources to minimize droughts. Funny how people don’t see, or what to see that.

The problem isn’t really with the decision to drop one feature in favor of another, it’s with the fact that the dropped feature was used to market a paid expansion. They’ve made decisions just like this in the past without such a big deal being made over it.

If legendary weapons hadn’t been thrown around as an expansion feature for over a year, I wouldn’t be here with torch and pitchfork in hand. I’d be disappointed. I’d have lost a bit (more) faith in Anet. But I wouldn’t be angry, feeling like I’d been mislead, and demanding that they do something a bit better than “sorry guys, this is too hard and we’re not making it anymore.”

Obtena.7952:

I get that people are angry about the cancelation, but there is no way you can defend the release of a single Legendary weapon 6 months after the release of HoT as reasonable delivery on that project … they would have completed the second legendary set in time for the game servers to shut down. GG!

It hasn’t been 6 months since release. We’re still a couple weeks short of that mark, and it was barely over 5 months at the time this announcement was made. It could be 6 months out by time the spring update hits, but there were also other things being worked on. The first 3 weapons weren’t even released until shortly after that(forget how exacly long, but they were in by early Dec). And then they had to spend time on issues and polish with those 3 and 20 precursor collections for the original legendary set. So no, they didn’t spend 6 months just making one weapon.

In fact, it was only a couple weeks before HoT’s launch when Anet seemed quite confident in being able to make a weapon in about a month. A time when they obviously had either completed 2 and were working on a third, or were working on 3 mostly-complete ones simultaneously. Either way, they had 3 weapons and 20 pre collections out within 4-6 weeks of making that statement.

correction/clarification
The first 3 weapons were added on Nov 17, just over 3 weeks after launch. About 5 weeks after stating that a weapon takes 1 month to add.

Torolan.5816:

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^

That analogy is awful, and the conclusion the hypothetical customer came to is extremely unreasonable.

It’s more like people are drawing the conclusion that the fish isn’t food, because they want steak.

Astralporing.1957:

Ticky.5831:

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

The fact that the only content getting released is a content that a large part of the game population didn’t ever want to see in this game makes the whole situation even worse.

!http://i.imgur.com/0pRGTlC.jpg!

I don’t know how many people were opposed to the presence of raids, but I think you’re vastly underestimating the number of people who quit over the years of a lack of challenging endgame content, combined with the number of long-suffering fans who stuck with the game until it finally came out.

Obtena.7952:

Dinks.2478:

Obtena.7952:

Chalk it up to whatever you want. I don’t think the ‘why’ that explains the 6 mon dev time for one legendary weapon is all that relevant. In fact, it could be longer or shorter to develop a Legendary weapon; We have no way to know. I do know that if it takes months to release a Legendary, 2, 3, 4 6, whatever. That’s a long time.

Anet is on the record saying it takes about a month to create the new legendaries + collections. Since it shouldn’t take 6 people to make one a properly managed and competent team should be able to do 2-3 legendaries a month. Which is reasonable to me. So I think it is very relevant of the reason why.

Yet they haven’t done so … either they under estimated or they haven’t been focused on it. So seems to me whatever is happening over there … it’s not happening.

I think this is something a lot of us can agree with. Whether or not it’s dev issues, management issues or some other uncontrollable issue (Anet flu epidemic etc) we’ll most likely never know and it doesn’t matter. My issue with the whole situation is, as a company director myself, if I accept money for supplying a service/product then I’ll bloody-well make sure I deliver, end of story, no excuses.

Ticky.5831:

I don’t know how many people were opposed to the presence of raids, but I think you’re vastly underestimating the number of people who quit over the years of a lack of challenging endgame content, combined with the number of long-suffering fans who stuck with the game until it finally came out.

I don’t think raids exactly fit with some of the core principles of the game, largely because of the longer prep times, waiting for people, and more need for certain roles. But they were also asked for by a good portion of the playerbase, and will probably keep those people around at least a while longer. Even though I don’t have any interest in them, or really care whether they exist or not, I think it’s still an overall good thing to add.

I certainly don’t know anyone that quit or got angry that they did add raids. They didn’t add them in a way that has an impact on the rest of the game, like putting in improved/raid gear. I don’t see anything there to be bothered about.

mrstealth.6701:

Ticky.5831:

I don’t know how many people were opposed to the presence of raids, but I think you’re vastly underestimating the number of people who quit over the years of a lack of challenging endgame content, combined with the number of long-suffering fans who stuck with the game until it finally came out.

I don’t think raids exactly fit with some of the core principles of the game, largely because of the longer prep times, waiting for people, and more need for certain roles. But they were also asked for by a good portion of the playerbase, and will probably keep those people around at least a while longer. Even though I don’t have any interest in them, or really care whether they exist or not, I think it’s still an overall good thing to add.

I certainly don’t know anyone that quit or got angry that they did add raids. They didn’t add them in a way that has an impact on the rest of the game, like putting in improved/raid gear. I don’t see anything there to be bothered about.

Except they did atleast when legendary armor is released.

Linken.6345:

mrstealth.6701:

Ticky.5831:

I don’t know how many people were opposed to the presence of raids, but I think you’re vastly underestimating the number of people who quit over the years of a lack of challenging endgame content, combined with the number of long-suffering fans who stuck with the game until it finally came out.

I don’t think raids exactly fit with some of the core principles of the game, largely because of the longer prep times, waiting for people, and more need for certain roles. But they were also asked for by a good portion of the playerbase, and will probably keep those people around at least a while longer. Even though I don’t have any interest in them, or really care whether they exist or not, I think it’s still an overall good thing to add.

I certainly don’t know anyone that quit or got angry that they did add raids. They didn’t add them in a way that has an impact on the rest of the game, like putting in improved/raid gear. I don’t see anything there to be bothered about.

Except they did atleast when legendary armor is released.

By improved gear, I meant something that was better/had higher stats. Legendary armor will be at the same power level as ascended, just with no cost on swapping its stats.

I have mixed feelings regarding the suspension of new legendaries. As some have mentioned, new legendary weapons (and armor) were one of the main “selling points” for HoT and suspending them indefinitely is going to kitten people off. Also, the addition of meaningful content is important as there has been nothing of consequence added to the expansion since raids. After all, one can only do so many masteries. For what its worth, I liked the mini quests for the ascended weapons for each elite specialization. They were easily achievable and the specs were basically the same as a legendary only fixed. All that said, I hope ANet reads these posts because they have to know that the game has become boring, repetitive, and increasingly irrelevant. I remember Frost and Flame, Scarlet Briar, The Marionette, and the destruction of Lions Arch. I even remember when dungeons were fun and everyone wanted to do them. Now, the only people looking to do dungeons are doing so because they need tokens for the legendaries that ANet has decided not to work on anymore. Meanwhile, we are continually inundated with new gliders, outfits, and repeats of previous things that should have sold then but didn’t and maybe they will now. I have been a loyal player since the original Guild Wars and have spent more money on this game than I will EVER admit either publically or to my wife. I have supported the vision and struggled through months of waiting for something to happen. It has been said that the first step in realizing you have a problem is admitting it. By suspending the new legendaries and retasking those developers on updating content for “all players,” ANet has, IMHO, admitted they have a problem. I am not one who does change very well, but I’m warming up to it.

Ticky.5831:

Torolan.5816:

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^

That analogy is awful, and the conclusion the hypothetical customer came to is extremely unreasonable.

It’s more like people are drawing the conclusion that the fish isn’t food, because they want steak.

The only unreasonable thing I see in my anology is that the customer is still on the phone after he is asking for steak and gets offered fish for a second time, especially when the restaurant was known for being the only steakhouse in town for years.^^

Torolan.5816:

Ticky.5831:

Torolan.5816:

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^

That analogy is awful, and the conclusion the hypothetical customer came to is extremely unreasonable.

It’s more like people are drawing the conclusion that the fish isn’t food, because they want steak.

The only unreasonable thing I see in my anology is that the customer is still on the phone after he is asking for steak and gets offered fish for a second time, especially when the restaurant was known for being the only steakhouse in town for years.^^

Why is the customer on the phone unless it’s a high quality restaurant where they need a reservation?

The higher the rating, generally, the more power the chef has, and the less stable the menu is. That’s why they hand write menus at high-end restaurants. Because they change often, based on what the chef is cooking that night.

Why would he expect the restaurant to have a stable menu? Why are they concluding they’ll never eat at the restaurant just for acting like a highly rated restaurant?

If it’s not a high quality restaurant, what is the purpose of the phone call? Why would they be asking for steak unless they suspect a supply issue? If they suspect a supply issue, why would they conclude to never eat at the restaurant?

And also, there is no especially about this: your analogy didn’t say anything about a steakhouse.

So as you can hopefully see, it’s unreasonable to hold a restaurant responsible for issues with their suppliers.

If you want to see entertaining examples of why this is unreasonable; See “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia: The Gang Spies like the US” were this kind of response is mocked as absurdly stupid, or the movie “Chef” for why it’s unreasonable to expect a stable menu at a gourmet restaurant.

Unfortunately, however awful this analogy is, and unreasonable the customer is; I guess I’m not surprised. It’s my experience from working in the food industry that diners turn off all rational thinking when they enter a restaurant. I’m not surprised that for some people, it takes place at the first interaction with a restaurant.

Ticky.5831:

The higher the rating, generally, the more power the chef has, and the less stable the menu is. That’s why they hand write menus at high-end restaurants. Because they change often, based on what the chef is cooking that night.

This is after customer has already paid. For steak. not fish. A restaurant that’s going to change their customers’ orders (after taking their money) at their own discretion, is not going to get very far.

Is this thread just a legal/refund discussion now?

I thought we were just talking about the price of fish…

I don’t believe they are going to reverse the decision and I don’t believe there will be any full refunds, partial refunds or compensation. In fact I’m expecting them to completely ignore this thread and just wait for it to fizzle out.

So I guess we might as well talk about fish, or some other ill-fitting analogy.

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

But I don’t see how that applies here Zudet.

Besides, who is going to pay for “promises”? I bought Heart of Thorns because it is Guild Wars 2. I will it the next expansion because it is Guild Wars 2. If a company says they have big ideas but later on find out they’re unable to use them, sure it sucks, that is life. It happens all the time and I don’t fault anyone for when it happens.

Warcry.1596:

But I don’t see how that applies here Zudet.

Besides, who is going to pay for “promises”? I bought Heart of Thorns because it is Guild Wars 2. I will it the next expansion because it is Guild Wars 2. If a company says they have big ideas but later on find out they’re unable to use them, sure it sucks, that is life. It happens all the time and I don’t fault anyone for when it happens.

A lot of people bought HoT because of what they said was coming with it. We are 6 months in and so far they have not delivered on half of it and we have no idea when we will get the other half. If there was a timeline I would be fine but at this point I have no idea what I spent my money on.

Ticky.5831:

Torolan.5816:

Ticky.5831:

mrstealth.6701:

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Xillllix.3485:

If the expansion was a full-bodied 50$ worth of content expansion there wouldn’t be a content drought in the first place…

That is completely untrue. No MMO company has ever been able to produce content as fast or faster than the majority of people can consume it.

Whether you feel that you got $50 worth of content is a different consideration than if the amount of content that is released has any potential to cover the periods in time during which new content is being created.

~EW

Of course there will always eventually be a content drought, but I assume the point was that kitten expansion shouldn’t have reached that point so quickly.

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

Lol, got to love this reasoning. I can see a restaurant arguing like tihs on the phone when someone orders a steak:
“Yeah, hello, I know you ordered a steak. Steak is out, but we have a large stock of fish we want to sell to you. What, you don´t want fish, even after I have offered it to you a second time and you won´t order again in our restaurant? I wonder why…”^^

That analogy is awful, and the conclusion the hypothetical customer came to is extremely unreasonable.

It’s more like people are drawing the conclusion that the fish isn’t food, because they want steak.

Astralporing.1957:

Ticky.5831:

Honestly there isn’t even a content drought. Raids are still being released regularly. It may not be the content everyone is interested in, but it’s content.

The fact that the only content getting released is a content that a large part of the game population didn’t ever want to see in this game makes the whole situation even worse.

!http://i.imgur.com/0pRGTlC.jpg!

I don’t know how many people were opposed to the presence of raids, but I think you’re vastly underestimating the number of people who quit over the years of a lack of challenging endgame content, combined with the number of long-suffering fans who stuck with the game until it finally came out.

You underestimating how many people do nit care about raids at all. They just want content they can play at any point, with as many or as few friends as they like. I personally don’t care for raids, I have zero interest in them, and I know many people who do feel the same. I also know as many people who enjoy raids. But I have noticed that LFR requests have gone right down. So as far as I see it raids are not as popular as people think they are, or people have there “teams” and that’s it. If your not in a premade raid group, chances are you’ll never see it now. Add in rewards are lock at once a week? You probably have your peak time for doing it, after that, not a chance. Now LS is something everyone can do in there own time. I’ve always favored this content over all others. I can do what I want, when I want to, and don’t have to spend hours preparing to have fun. Wasn’t fun eating for a healer in other games, I can’t see it being fun waiting for the “right” class Imo.

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

Good for him, Not sure how it is relevant since we’re talking about Mike O’Brien, you know Colin’s former boss.

I understand that raids are content you folks aren’t interested in. And it’s ok to be not interested in it and to say you want the content you want, and to voice your complaints about your favored content not coming in.

It’s just ridiculous to call it a content drought when new content is regularly coming in. That’s called denial.

Ticky.5831:

I understand that raids are content you folks aren’t interested in. And it’s ok to be not interested in it and to say you want the content you want, and to voice your complaints about your favored content not coming in.

It’s just ridiculous to call it a content drought when new content is regularly coming in. That’s called denial.

What new content? The only new content we have seen are raids (which I do). Other then that the only part of the game that has never failed to deliver content is the gem store.

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

And your sure Colin the middle man was responsible?

Linken.6345:

Sird.4536:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Here’s a good analogy:

A company promises to produce some digital content, you pay for that digital content and then the company fails to deliver it. Said company loses the faith of its customers and sells their next scam poorly, leading to layoffs at the company, starting with the fool who tried to scam their players out of content they paid for.

Colin has already left.

And your sure Colin the middle man was responsible?

Colin was game director from the start. He drove the game to where it is and if he couldn’t handle the work load then yes he is responsible.