Guild Wars 2

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m saying the entire change was made for a specific purpose. Anet has outlined that purpose for us. They told us why. They told us the way it was wasn’t working period. End of story. There’s no room to argue there.

Anet tested what would work better and came up with this. If 25% of the player base hates it and leaves, but more people take up the game on free weekends, it’ll probably be a decent deal over time for Anet. They’re a business. They don’t make changes to the game only because players like them. They make changes to the game to grow the game financially as well.

So you don’t get to pick and choose in this case. If you don’t like it, and Anet won’t modify it to your liking because they have other concerns than just what you like, you can choose to leave or you can choose to stay.

You can’t dictate terms based on just your likes and dislikes. It doesn’t work that way.

Yes I have read what Anet wrote. My take is they “think” more new players will retain if they did it that way.

but does the new system work better for veterans? Especially those that already is accustomed for the old system?

quite honestly I dont’ know the answer. I think most people hate grind for legendary, but that is what many people end up doing.

veterans says they hate the unlocks, but will more of them actually want to level up alt? Maybe they’ll felt more rewarding so they’ll end up grind to 80? That is my question.

besides, anet already says they are going to make changes to traits for veterans with multiple alts. I’m not sure what Anet will do.

Great part of this whole leveling problem is that they didnt released a option for the veterans to skip the unlock system. Even if for example they have it planned, the mistake is giving a very unfinished product to the playerbase.

Stilol for me the mayor problem is that they erased part of the content in the begginer areas (including the golem chess) and the changes and cuts in the personal history.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m saying the entire change was made for a specific purpose. Anet has outlined that purpose for us. They told us why. They told us the way it was wasn’t working period. End of story. There’s no room to argue there.

Anet tested what would work better and came up with this. If 25% of the player base hates it and leaves, but more people take up the game on free weekends, it’ll probably be a decent deal over time for Anet. They’re a business. They don’t make changes to the game only because players like them. They make changes to the game to grow the game financially as well.

So you don’t get to pick and choose in this case. If you don’t like it, and Anet won’t modify it to your liking because they have other concerns than just what you like, you can choose to leave or you can choose to stay.

You can’t dictate terms based on just your likes and dislikes. It doesn’t work that way.

Yes I have read what Anet wrote. My take is they “think” more new players will retain if they did it that way.

but does the new system work better for veterans? Especially those that already is accustomed for the old system?

quite honestly I dont’ know the answer. I think most people hate grind for legendary, but that is what many people end up doing.

veterans says they hate the unlocks, but will more of them actually want to level up alt? Maybe they’ll felt more rewarding so they’ll end up grind to 80? Apparently ANet think it works for new players. That is my question.

besides, anet already says they are going to make changes to traits for veterans with multiple alts. I’m not sure what Anet will do.

As far as vets go, dont think (this particular update) it will have much effect if any. Traits are much much bigger offender in the grand scheme of things.

New players – they have hypothesis and its about to be tested ;P

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m saying the entire change was made for a specific purpose. Anet has outlined that purpose for us. They told us why. They told us the way it was wasn’t working period. End of story. There’s no room to argue there.

Anet tested what would work better and came up with this. If 25% of the player base hates it and leaves, but more people take up the game on free weekends, it’ll probably be a decent deal over time for Anet. They’re a business. They don’t make changes to the game only because players like them. They make changes to the game to grow the game financially as well.

So you don’t get to pick and choose in this case. If you don’t like it, and Anet won’t modify it to your liking because they have other concerns than just what you like, you can choose to leave or you can choose to stay.

You can’t dictate terms based on just your likes and dislikes. It doesn’t work that way.

Yes I have read what Anet wrote. My take is they “think” more new players will retain if they did it that way.

but does the new system work better for veterans? Especially those that already is accustomed for the old system?

quite honestly I dont’ know the answer. I think most people hate grind for legendary, but that is what many people end up doing.

veterans says they hate the unlocks, but will more of them actually want to level up alt? Maybe they’ll felt more rewarding so they’ll end up grind to 80? Apparently ANet think it works for new players. That is my question.

besides, anet already says they are going to make changes to traits for veterans with multiple alts. I’m not sure what Anet will do.

I’m sure Anet will fix it, more or less. I’ve been sure since day one. I’m extremely disappointed in the kneejerk reaction to fans, because this happens all the time. People freak out, Anet makes some changes and life goes on.

There were calls for people being fired, mass boycotts, threats of leaving and telling all your friends not to buy the game…this forum just reacts so strongly to everything.

Changes will be made, it’ll be, for the most part, fine.

This up and down roller coaster just gets tiring.

Zoso.8279:

Iason Evan.3806:

Sokia.3710:

The new changes to leveling would be okay with some adjustment. By “some” I mean a lot.

^This. You couple the new leveling changes with the way the trait system is right now and it’s a messed up system. I hope everyone who likes the new leveling system can at least understand why there are those of us who find it frustrating and broken compared to what we had before.

I can understand why so many people are upset and I am being completely serious. Honestly I don’t like the way they locked all the skills and I’ve been very vocal about it in different topic posts. My only problem is some people making it seem like GW2 is going to blow up because of it and all of the I’m leaving topics that have been posted. I mean if your going to leave just leave if you don’t like it and want changes give constructive criticism but don’t make threats. :/

Agreed. I won’t defend anyone being caustic or mean-spirited on the forums. Throwing a tantrum does nothing to fix the situation. The trait system for unlocking traits during leveling has been broken(in my opinion) for six months now. The trait system(the trait window and free respec costs and not needing a trainer) when you are level 80 is great!

I am tired of this game taking 3 steps forward(Ranger changes, BLTC changes) and 2 steps back(ArenaNet implemented the Scavenger Hunt and Renamed it “Collections” and got rid of the precursors that were supposed to be a part of it). That is the stuff I don’t like. There are many things I do like, but then they go and add stuff that literally makes no sense. Well, it makes no sense from the perspective of a player.

Currently 48% of respondents hate or dislike the changes.
33% think adjustments need to be made.
10% like the changes.
9% are indifferent.

At the most conservative interpretation a plurality of respondents have a negative view of NPE, with the majority of respondents in that plurality having a hatred for it.

If the intention of this poll was to show that the forum reaction is overblown, it did not succeed.

NewTrain.7549:

Currently 48% of respondents hate or dislike the changes.
33% think adjustments need to be made.
10% like the changes.
9% are indifferent.

At the most conservative interpretation a plurality of respondents have a negative view of NPE, with the majority of respondents in that plurality having a hatred for it.

If the intention of this poll was to show that the forum reaction is overblown, it did not succeed.

Yep. What’s your point?

I’d say far more people in the game didn’t like the addition of ascended gear, and the outcry over that was more far reaching than this by far. That was a reaction I could understand. This one? Not so much.

Because ascended gear affected aspects of the game. The gave us stuff to compensate for that.

I’m happy with the poll results and I’m sure I’ll be happier still with the next poll results. I just wish that every time Anet did something people didn’t like they didn’t go for pitchforks and torches.

There’s no need for the type of drama we’ve seen here.

Vayne.8563:

Yep. What’s your point?

NewTrain.7549:

If the intention of this poll was to show that the forum reaction is overblown, it did not succeed.

Thought I made myself pretty clear.

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

Yep. What’s your point?

NewTrain.7549:

If the intention of this poll was to show that the forum reaction is overblown, it did not succeed.

Thought I made myself pretty clear.

You did. I thought I made myself pretty clear too.

The overall reaction was that everyone was leaving the game, everyone was not buying gems, they were going to burn down town hall.

A couple of days later and the guys who didn’t like it dropped from about 80% to about 50% from the first poll to this poll.

People aren’t all going for their pitchforks anymore, only a few really disenfranchised people are still moaning. This is called a trend. It’s the pendulum affect.

The extreme over-reaction is over, in two weeks time, the tiny percent of you that can’t deal with it will either leave or never level an alt again and everyone else will go on playing and maybe, just maybe, when the next weekend comes out, more people will stay with the game.

I’m fine with that.

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t all going for their pitchforks anymore, only a few really disenfranchised people are still moaning.

Yeah, that real slight 48%. How very minor.

can’t wait for someone to say it here that the poll is not valid because blah blah blah + millions of other blah and some more blah. if that happen i would furiously rofl .

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t all going for their pitchforks anymore, only a few really disenfranchised people are still moaning.

Yeah, that real slight 48%. How very minor.

Do you understand trend. 80 to 50% in what, two days. lol

We’ll see who’s right in two weeks time. I should also point out, I posted that poll to reddit before I posted on the forum and the poll was far far more equal.

Then the forum people came in, voted when I posted it here and downvoted the post, so less and less reddit people would end up seeing it.

Not that I expected anything less.

The fact is, off the forum, on reddit, before the forum voted, the poll was a whole lot different.

That tells me something too. Anyway that’s my last post for today. G’night.

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t all going for their pitchforks anymore, only a few really disenfranchised people are still moaning.

Yeah, that real slight 48%. How very minor.

Do you understand trend. 80 to 50% in what, two days. lol

Do you understand that 50% dislike/hatred and only 10% like is not a positive sign? Lol.

Every poll is biased. Look at the indepence of Scotland from England (or is it UK?) Polls for example. Every poll says what the poll maker (or the people behind it) wants it to be.
As a sidenote: I was sceptical at first of the patch. But now i have been leveling a new toon this weekend again (weekend fresh :-) i must say i like it.
Pros: the leveling bonus, the guide (good thing for the newbies), the tips, some of the tutorial stuf like the dodge (they should do the same with downstate).
Neutral: the packs of personal story (with the bags of loot insted of kill loot and some items) , i personaly dont mind this or the old system.
Against: Core mechanics locked to long. If they tweak with that and make the after first level 80 characters acount bound for the core mechanics its good.

Must say there are many new rangers in the starter area :-)

luzt.7692:

While thats true, we also have alot of different opinions on this forum.

And its not akin to that anology you made, because we’re disagreeing on many things

Please explain how my analogy doesn’t work…
Skewed polls are still skewed and should not be taken seriously… Especially when you are dealing with forums like these…

It doesn’t matter that we are all disagreeing on many things.
What matters is that people come to these forums to complain and because they think they have some axe to grind against Anet and/or the people that don’t instantly conform to the knee-jerk reactions that are so prevalent here.
As such, there is bias… Bias against Anet and against the OP (which is glaringly obvious if you just look at these very forums.) As Vayne said, the Poll looked much different before the Forum people came in.

Funny how that works…

So again, I say it is skewed. The only way any sort of Poll like this would be at all accurate is if we could have it set up in the game itself. But we, as players do not have that ability… and as such, people will see what they want to see.

Iason Evan.3806:

I am tired of this game taking 3 steps forward(Ranger changes, BLTC changes) and 2 steps back(ArenaNet implemented the Scavenger Hunt and Renamed it “Collections” and got rid of the precursors that were supposed to be a part of it).

You mean when they added the “Precursor Quest” and replaced it with Mawdry II right?

I said it before, these two things smell of ideas they mocked up internally for Precursors and decided they wouldn’t cut it or needed live world data to look at before trying . . . so they were polished into something else.

That’s what it feels to me because I’ve seen commentary on how testing and development sometimes gets from “Point A” to “Point 5” without explaining how they switched to Numerical in the middle.

I actually think the leveling changes for a NEW player, are ok. the problem is, they’ve forced these on every new character, rather than only on new accounts, 1st character,

That was a bad choice imo, and I’d like that be changed.

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Personally, even if I truly dislike a patch, such as the addition of ascended, I am most likely to choose the poll opton for OK if adjusted/changed because it is not mutually exclusive with actively dislike. Even something I absolutely detest, hate with a passion, might become OK is adjusted appropriately/sufficiently.

The OP needs to understand that they’ve stated their opinion and thoughts on this matter and need to stop regurgitating or re-phrasing the same things ad nauseam like they’re on some kind of one-user crusade.

This thread backfired and the relentless dogging of everyone expressing a contrary opinion to your own, here and elsewhere, is unhelpful.

Ashen.2907:

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Honestly, I would answer the poll positively but I don’t see the point. Everyone is going to see what they want to see. If it shows positive, it’s because Vayne constructed the poll wrong. If it’s negative in any fashion, then it shows the majority of all players hate the changes and want them banished to the seventh layer of the Abyss to have spiders eat their eyes for all eternity.

I don’t put my vote in because I don’t think it matters anymore – nobody would believe I really meant it, anyway, same as it’s going around (yet again) about Vayne being a plant.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Honestly, I would answer the poll positively but I don’t see the point. Everyone is going to see what they want to see. If it shows positive, it’s because Vayne constructed the poll wrong. If it’s negative in any fashion, then it shows the majority of all players hate the changes and want them banished to the seventh layer of the Abyss to have spiders eat their eyes for all eternity.

I don’t put my vote in because I don’t think it matters anymore – nobody would believe I really meant it, anyway, same as it’s going around (yet again) about Vayne being a plant.

Hard numbers are hard numbers and no, people aren’t going to see what they want. As it is only 20% of the polled like/are neutral to the NPE. Hard to twist that into anything else.

A poll is well/badly constructed not on the basis of who made it, but on the answers being biased or not. Not a whole lot of interpretation to be made there too.

Stop coming in and saying that anytime anyone disagrees with you or Vayne it is because people with different opinions are unreasonable or on persecuting you. Thanks.

Wolfheart.1938:

Stop coming in and saying that anytime anyone disagrees with you or Vayne it is because people with different opinions are unreasonable or on persecuting you. Thanks.

People don’t disagree with me, though – a lot of people seem to agree this patch needs some adjustments and work so it can work for Veteran players where they won’t need to jump through all the NPE hoops.

And I’ll stop painting that picture as soon as I stop seeing it

Ok I Did It.2854:

You know Vayne I sometimes swear you are an Anet employee, I think that if Anet set fire to a box full of puppies ud find a good reason why they did it,

Sokia.3710:

Not that I think Vayne is being dishonest or misleading. Nope. Not a chance.

Really, though, there’s no target on Vayne’s back at all. After all he doesn’t get topics started or posts left just to be about him being “sekret aNet emplyee”.

And no, I don’t entirely agree with Vayne on this one. I honestly think starting the poll wasn’t going to merit anything other than yet one more where a majority say they didn’t like it and the best position is “but not an overwhelming, crushing majority said so”.

That’s the only victory he can expect from this poll, in terms of debate.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Up to 81% of respondents not happy/ok with the patch. The margin for the negative score seems to be growing over time with additional responses.

Honestly, I would answer the poll positively but I don’t see the point. Everyone is going to see what they want to see. If it shows positive, it’s because Vayne constructed the poll wrong. If it’s negative in any fashion, then it shows the majority of all players hate the changes and want them banished to the seventh layer of the Abyss to have spiders eat their eyes for all eternity.

I don’t put my vote in because I don’t think it matters anymore – nobody would believe I really meant it, anyway, same as it’s going around (yet again) about Vayne being a plant.

right, but even if we use Vayne’s reasoning, we know that 81% want something change, and only 9% like it.

So if that few people like it right now. And 81% want some minor or major change to it, maybe Anet could consider it.

laokoko.7403:

So if that few people like it right now. And 81% want some minor or major change to it, maybe Anet could consider it.

I agree. I’ve been posting what changes I think would help, though it’s not my own idea and someone else’s.

As with a great many things in GW2, this could have used another couple passes of tooling and polishing before being released into the wild. It almost looks from the outside as though ANet’s devs just have too much to be doing that they routinely seem to get about seven smaller projects partly polished instead of one awesome bit thing.

(If they launch a big expansion and it rocks the socks off of everyone here, I will retract that statement and stand naked in Lion’s Arch for an hour.)

Well, there it is. 81% aren’t happy with this patch and only 10% like it. Hopefully Anet can make some pretty significant changes to sway peoples feelings. This might be Arenanet’s
third biggest blunder. Right behind Not making the game more like Guild wars and ascended gear.

Fernling.1729:

Well, there it is. 81% aren’t happy with this patch and only 10% like it. Hopefully Anet can make some pretty significant changes to sway peoples feelings. This might be Arenanet’s
third biggest blunder. Right behind Not making the game more like Guild wars and ascended gear.

I still consider “allowing asura to be anything more important to the story than a chair” is their biggest blunder but I’ll be okay with your list

I came back to gw2 after a break of around a year and I have to admit I wanted to start a new char just to go through the world again, 1 day in and I have come to the conclusion that NcSoft (call them a-net if you want, it is not arena-net any more and hasn’t been for years) still seem to be making awful decisions and trying to funnel player through content rather than letting them make their own choices.

The new levelling system is pretty awful and the complete x,y,z to unlock traits is even worse! (unless you just want to amass 360 skill points and blow them along with 45 gold to get your traits ofc which given the lack of farming or gold making opportunities, this points you towards buying gems) the plot thickens!

there are some things to still enjoy in the game I guess if you are a new player but returning to see that little has changed other than the previous funnelled content ( fractals or the same dungeons from 2+ years ago) or just zerging around in WvW, basically same game, minor changes and a shame they never done more than ram LS down everyones throats

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Really, though, there’s no target on Vayne’s back at all. After all he doesn’t get topics started or posts left just to be about him being “sekret aNet emplyee”.

And why do you think that is? That is called having a reputation, it doesn’t demonstrate that said reputation is unreasonable nor persecution.

I for one think he’s often dishonest (“I don’t remember your examples from 2 minutes ago” – Well scroll up the gosh darn page maybe?), doesn’t mean I would vote something I don’t think just to spite him.

Besides, Vayne having a bad reputation doesn’t invalidate or meaningfully affect a poll with 1 thousand votes.

Wolfheart.1938:

And why do you think that is? That is called having a reputation, it doesn’t demonstrate that said reputation is unreasonable nor persecution.

No, but it does introduce bias.

Besides, Vayne having a bad reputation doesn’t invalidate or meaningfully affect a poll with 1 thousand votes.

I’m not so certain.

Well I am there you go.

We don’t have numbers so our certainties or lack thereof don’t really matter much.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fernling.1729:

Well, there it is. 81% aren’t happy with this patch and only 10% like it. Hopefully Anet can make some pretty significant changes to sway peoples feelings. This might be Arenanet’s
third biggest blunder. Right behind Not making the game more like Guild wars and ascended gear.

I still consider “allowing asura to be anything more important to the story than a chair” is their biggest blunder but I’ll be okay with your list

I like your style.

Wolfheart.1938:

Well I am there you go.

We don’t have numbers so our certainties or lack thereof don’t really matter much.

I am certain of one thing.

. . . tonight is the night I get home from work and get a Precursor off a moa.

Vayne, the problem with all your logic, is it starts off with arenanet are the guys who know everything, therefore, they will make few mistakes and in general choose the best course of action at any time.

But this has proven not to be the case, its not even their companies self percieved style of development.

They believe, not in finding the perfect answer, but making an attempt, then trying it out, then iterating on that attempt. Therefore its not a good idea to assume that their solutions to any problem are always the best answer.

Also your idea that you have a package, and cannot alter that package, because it would throw off your data is a very very poor tool for the scientific method, or testing an engineering solution.
For example, even if their new system is retaining players, they dont know what facet of it is retaining players.
Is it new graphics/visual stimulation on level up?
Is it a content guide?
Is it locking of core abilities?
Is it less information?

by taking it as a package, you have the worst information on what changes are producing the effects you want, and what changes are not, or are effecting other things.

anyhow point is, the system isnt good, to be honest, even though a lot of people speak loudly here, usually the poll results are usually more balanced. I agree that new players wont know that it sucks, because they will never have played a superior system. But what this poll actually shows you is that it is not that likely that even new players would enjoy the system as much as old players did.

Which ultimately means, less people will enjoy the game as much. Which no matter how you slice it will probably lead to less profits at some point down the road.

Also consider this version of the game is not doing as well in china as it did over here, even though china has a larger market. I wouldnt say that this system is a winner for actually making a more appealing game overall. Retaining a higher % of players with less players being interested/reccomending the game may be a losing strategy.

The last thing I’d want is a game designed democratically.

Nokaru.7831:

The last thing I’d want is a game designed democratically.

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

Mmm, guys lets put the pool in our guilds facebooks, google +, web pages ,etc. So it get a bigger sample.

phys.7689:

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

The best argument against large-scale democracy is just watching 2 minutes of Twitch Plays Pokemon.

If this game was designed democratically, we’d never see things like Liadri or the revamp to Tequatl and the Crown Pavilion.

If you want to change the game, then enter the gaming industry and become a designer. This might come as a shock to you, but It takes more than just having an opinion and clicking on a poll to actually make a good game.

Good on never seeing the Tequatl revamp. I kittening hate that content. It used to be fun, now it’s just a big pain in the kitten and a constant frustration.

Felkes.2759:

Good on never seeing the Tequatl revamp. I kittening hate that content. It used to be fun, now it’s just a big pain in the kitten and a constant frustration.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am glad this game will not be designed democratically. Because people like this outnumber everyone else.

We’d just see completely stupid things like “OMG QUAGGEN PLAYABLE RACE!!! OMG SKRIT PLAYABLE RACE!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!”

I love how the entirety of the forums is basically everyone in unison fighting against Anet’s paid poster….

Nokaru.7831:

The last thing I’d want is a game designed democratically.

Absolute truth.

“What players want” is such a hogwash. If you ask 1000 players what they want youll get 5000 different stuff.

And if you pick 3 to make youll get 997 saying they dont listen to community and 3 saying you are lazy and didnt make ALL they wanted

Nokaru.7831:

phys.7689:

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

The best argument against large-scale democracy is just watching 2 minutes of Twitch Plays Pokemon.

If this game was designed democratically, we’d never see things like Liadri or the revamp to Tequatl and the Crown Pavilion.

If you want to change the game, then enter the gaming industry and become a designer. This might come as a shock to you, but It takes more than just having an opinion and clicking on a poll to actually make a good game.

And you still miss the point. Saying people dont know what they want/what is good is fine and dandy, i agree to an extent, but thinking that any small group of people will automatically make the descions that will improve the game as a whole, is a bad premise.

And no matter how good a game designer you think you are, if 80% of the people who play your game, thinks your latest design was unsatisfactory, you will fail.

lets say dark souls II sold 2 million copies,
new dark souls team makes dark souls 3
80% of people dont like it
you have failed as a designer, democracy or not.

now, someone can try to appeal to 80%, and in doing so make a game that 80% of people dislike as well, he is also a fail, but neither invaildates the feedback that 80% of your intended audience is unsatisfied with your product.

phys.7689:

Nokaru.7831:

phys.7689:

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

The best argument against large-scale democracy is just watching 2 minutes of Twitch Plays Pokemon.

If this game was designed democratically, we’d never see things like Liadri or the revamp to Tequatl and the Crown Pavilion.

If you want to change the game, then enter the gaming industry and become a designer. This might come as a shock to you, but It takes more than just having an opinion and clicking on a poll to actually make a good game.

And you still miss the point. Saying people dont know what they want/what is good is fine and dandy, i agree to an extent, but thinking that any small group of people will automatically make the descions that will improve the game as a whole, is a bad premise.

And no matter how good a game designer you think you are, if 80% of the people who play your game, thinks your latest design was unsatisfactory, you will fail.

lets say dark souls II sold 2 million copies,
new dark souls team makes dark souls 3
80% of people dont like it
you have failed as a designer, democracy or not.

now, someone can try to appeal to 80%, and in doing so make a game that 80% of people dislike as well, he is also a fail, but neither invaildates the feedback that 80% of your intended audience is unsatisfied with your product.

80% people of what exactly?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

MikaHR.1978:

Nokaru.7831:

The last thing I’d want is a game designed democratically.

Absolute truth.

“What players want” is such a hogwash. If you ask 1000 players what they want youll get 5000 different stuff.

And if you pick 3 to make youll get 997 saying they dont listen to community and 3 saying you are lazy and didnt make ALL they wanted

the skill of being a good engineer/designer is figuring out what people need/want from feedback and giving them solutions that work.

Figuring out what a project needs, is not always about listening to what everyone says, but if when it actually comes to fruition, everyone dislikes it, you have failed at making a product.

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

Nokaru.7831:

phys.7689:

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

The best argument against large-scale democracy is just watching 2 minutes of Twitch Plays Pokemon.

If this game was designed democratically, we’d never see things like Liadri or the revamp to Tequatl and the Crown Pavilion.

If you want to change the game, then enter the gaming industry and become a designer. This might come as a shock to you, but It takes more than just having an opinion and clicking on a poll to actually make a good game.

And you still miss the point. Saying people dont know what they want/what is good is fine and dandy, i agree to an extent, but thinking that any small group of people will automatically make the descions that will improve the game as a whole, is a bad premise.

And no matter how good a game designer you think you are, if 80% of the people who play your game, thinks your latest design was unsatisfactory, you will fail.

lets say dark souls II sold 2 million copies,
new dark souls team makes dark souls 3
80% of people dont like it
you have failed as a designer, democracy or not.

now, someone can try to appeal to 80%, and in doing so make a game that 80% of people dislike as well, he is also a fail, but neither invaildates the feedback that 80% of your intended audience is unsatisfied with your product.

80% people of what exactly?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

thats an irrelvant statistic?
what exactly is your point?

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

Nokaru.7831:

The last thing I’d want is a game designed democratically.

Absolute truth.

“What players want” is such a hogwash. If you ask 1000 players what they want youll get 5000 different stuff.

And if you pick 3 to make youll get 997 saying they dont listen to community and 3 saying you are lazy and didnt make ALL they wanted

the skill of being a good engineer/designer is figuring out what people need/want from feedback and giving them solutions that work.

Figuring out what a project needs, is not always about listening to what everyone says, but if when it actually comes to fruition, everyone dislikes it, you have failed at making a product.

Who is this “everyone”? You?

phys.7689:

MikaHR.1978:

phys.7689:

Nokaru.7831:

phys.7689:

But would you prefer a game designed such that it makes 80% of the people who play it disatisfied?

democracy may not be perfect, but leadership that enflames 80% of the people usually leads to revolution.

The best argument against large-scale democracy is just watching 2 minutes of Twitch Plays Pokemon.

If this game was designed democratically, we’d never see things like Liadri or the revamp to Tequatl and the Crown Pavilion.

If you want to change the game, then enter the gaming industry and become a designer. This might come as a shock to you, but It takes more than just having an opinion and clicking on a poll to actually make a good game.

And you still miss the point. Saying people dont know what they want/what is good is fine and dandy, i agree to an extent, but thinking that any small group of people will automatically make the descions that will improve the game as a whole, is a bad premise.

And no matter how good a game designer you think you are, if 80% of the people who play your game, thinks your latest design was unsatisfactory, you will fail.

lets say dark souls II sold 2 million copies,
new dark souls team makes dark souls 3
80% of people dont like it
you have failed as a designer, democracy or not.

now, someone can try to appeal to 80%, and in doing so make a game that 80% of people dislike as well, he is also a fail, but neither invaildates the feedback that 80% of your intended audience is unsatisfied with your product.

80% people of what exactly?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/#comments

thats an irrelvant statistic?
what exactly is your point?

Its very relevant, as you want to push some random 80% which definitely isnt representative of anything but tiny group inside a small group.

Loudmouths on forums account from noting to tiny. Same goes for forum polls.

Nokaru.7831:

Felkes.2759:

Good on never seeing the Tequatl revamp. I kittening hate that content. It used to be fun, now it’s just a big pain in the kitten and a constant frustration.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am glad this game will not be designed democratically. Because people like this outnumber everyone else.

Actually the changes in the leveling system were made in base of the metrics and feedback they got from testers, free trials etc…

Same was the original nerfing of the game (pre release).

Lucius.2140:

Nokaru.7831:

Felkes.2759:

Good on never seeing the Tequatl revamp. I kittening hate that content. It used to be fun, now it’s just a big pain in the kitten and a constant frustration.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am glad this game will not be designed democratically. Because people like this outnumber everyone else.

Actually the changes in the leveling system were made in base of the metrics and feedback they got from testers, free trials etc…

Its made on all expereince gathered by ANet in past 2 years from multiple sources vast majority on NA/EU servers.

MikaHR.1978:

Lucius.2140:

Nokaru.7831:

Felkes.2759:

Good on never seeing the Tequatl revamp. I kittening hate that content. It used to be fun, now it’s just a big pain in the kitten and a constant frustration.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am glad this game will not be designed democratically. Because people like this outnumber everyone else.

Actually the changes in the leveling system were made in base of the metrics and feedback they got from testers, free trials etc…

Its made on all expereince gathered by ANet in past 2 years from multiple sources.

Thats my point, its even more democratical!

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

People aren’t all going for their pitchforks anymore, only a few really disenfranchised people are still moaning.

Yeah, that real slight 48%. How very minor.

Do you understand trend. 80 to 50% in what, two days. lol

We’ll see who’s right in two weeks time. I should also point out, I posted that poll to reddit before I posted on the forum and the poll was far far more equal.

Then the forum people came in, voted when I posted it here and downvoted the post, so less and less reddit people would end up seeing it.

Not that I expected anything less.

The fact is, off the forum, on reddit, before the forum voted, the poll was a whole lot different.

That tells me something too. Anyway that’s my last post for today. G’night.

A smaller sample size (ie. only reddit), with a larger margin of error, tickles Vayne’s confirmation bias, it’s balanced.
When the sample size gets larger, by pooling the official forum, and it does not agree with Vayne’s view point, there’s a tin foil hat conspiracy going on.
If it tips ever back in his favor, he’ll be all ‘I told you so’.

It’s always a win-win situation for Vayne. I guess he’s gone back to polish the pedestal for a while.