Guild Wars 2

Hey guys…

I just wanted to see what people thought about the stealth mechanic in regards to what I have to say in this thread.
…and before we even get started, no I’m not complaining about stealth entirely…. just something that annoys me about it.

The mechanic itself is nothing to get your under garments in a bunch over, thanks to the revealed mechanic.

Stealth, as it exists in the game currently, is not as much as an offensive tool (though it can sometimes help) as much as it is a defensive tool.

Its essentially almost a “free pass” to any player who finds himself suddenly in over his head. When overwhelmed, a player can stealth, retreat in any direction, and even the most skilled pvp player can’t reliably predict where the enemy has gone.
(the same way you can’t reliably win rock/paper/scissors every single time regardless of how good you are at playing mind games)

This allows players to not only retreat, but play serious mind games as to whether or not they will be re-appearing for another strike or if they are already halfway across the map.

I don’t usually have any problems standing my ground against stealthed opponents, but there is definitely on occasion an issue with them getting away and escaping to tell the tale…. simply because I sometimes lose the “guess which one of 360 different directions I took off in, lol” game.

Why should my kill come down to a guessing game of “rock/paper/scissors” every time?

(downed? still fighting? or retreating?)

Sure sometimes you can definitely tell.

Many times you can’t.

I just don’t think this is fair.

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

Players who defend stealth almost always respond with “you can tell if you are hitting something because your auto-attack chain will continue”…… but what about your other skills?

Your attacks that deal the most damage (not your auto attack chain) need to have some way of telling you when you are striking a stealthed opponent as well.

Do you not think players should be able to tell if those attacks hit?

Brace yourself for a real life comparison to a fantasy mechanic:

If I’m completely blind, and I can see absolutely nothing…. I can still feel it if I swing a baseball bat and hit a pinata. Why can’t I tell if I strike a stealthed opponent?

Anyway….. thanks for reading….

No thank you. There are a couple audio and visual clues (not including what you mention). Not that hard to find and finish off a stealthed thief. This coming from a Thief.

Odyssey.2613:

No thank you. There are a couple audio and visual clues (not including what you mention). Not that hard to find and finish off a stealthed thief. This coming from a Thief.

So if there are audio and visual clues already…. what does adding dmg splashes change against your favor?

I whole heartedly agree.

Do you feel better?

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! For the thousandth time, Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

Join us in this thread! Weep in sorrow together and let’s show everyone how wrong/bad stealth is!

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.

What stealth? There is no stealth in the game. There’s invisibility, but not stealth

Should be like every other mmo, when you hit the target while the target is invisible the effect disappears. I would love that so soooooo much

Serophous.9085:

What stealth? There is no stealth in the game. There’s invisibility, but not stealth

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

I actually agree, but it’s an archetype that will not easily be shed. People enjoy it too much. It has overpowered potential, and is really tough to balance.

Not saying thieves in pvp are OP, just saying the whole invis/stealth thing in games in general seem incredibly tough to balance as I don’t think any game really does it well, at least not that I’ve played.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.

:/ Sorry to say, this topic has been brought up thousandths of times before and
snowballing into something absurd is exactly where this thread is going.

I was just trying to make it snowball faster so that it’s over quicker, to spare everyone some time.

btw, despite your intent of not having this snowball into something absurd, you already packed a little snowball in your OP.

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.

:/ Sorry to say, this topic has been brought up thousandths of times before and
snowballing into something absurd is exactly where this thread is going.

I was just trying to make it snowball faster so that it’s over quicker, to spare everyone some time.

btw, despite your intent of not having this snowball into something absurd, you already packed a little snowball in your OP.

Yeah…. because stealth needs to be tweaked…. not removed from the game

Buttercup.5871:

Stealth is good. And no, the thief is in a really bad place right now. I can auto-attack a thief to death with my engi, I will kill him or get my objective no matter how many time he stealths. Stealth is good, losing to a thief is pretty bad. Maybe if you’re another thief you’d have an excuse for not winning a 1 vs 1.

If you actually read the OP, you would know that I’m not complaining about losing to thieves…. I’m complaining about stealthed opponents (thieves included) getting away from fights they should have died in.

Also, please tell me more about how you auto attack stealthed opponents with ranged weapons.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Zero Day.2594:

Mirta.5029:

I just think that stealth has no place in games.

Yes! Down with stealth! Rise your pitch forks! Light your torches!

No. lets not.

Lets nip this in the bud before it snowballs into something absurd.

Stealth needs a bit of tweaking, but the mechanic is overall a wonderful addition to this game.

:/ Sorry to say, this topic has been brought up thousandths of times before and
snowballing into something absurd is exactly where this thread is going.

I was just trying to make it snowball faster so that it’s over quicker, to spare everyone some time.

btw, despite your intent of not having this snowball into something absurd, you already packed a little snowball in your OP.

Yeah…. because stealth needs to be tweaked…. not removed from the game

Just stealth?

We need to stealth the stealth!

Buttercup.5871:

Stealth is good. And no, the thief is in a really bad place right now. I can auto-attack a thief to death with my engi, I will kill him or get my objective no matter how many time he stealths. Stealth is good, losing to a thief is pretty bad. Maybe if you’re another thief you’d have an excuse for not winning a 1 vs 1.

thief might be in a better place if stealth was not so…spammable. i’ve never played an mmo where you can gain stealth/invisibility off of a skill used in combat with zero cooldown. stealth is also why some thief weapon sets are weaker than others(dual pistols vs dual daggers)

The OP brings up a very good point. Ive played necro for 2 years, then switched to thief about 4 months ago. I play a lot of pvp and while i enjoyed my time as a necro i became increasingly irritated at the lack of an escape.

Lets say im fighting an engi in foefire graveyard, and i see a mesemer coming, I check my skills and my stun breaks are on cooldown, i look around and my teammates are on another point for whatever reason, there is already a very limited amount of things i can do to make it out of that situation alive if anything.

On thief, i don’t run short bow so if im in the same scenario i just pop stealth, then heartseeker my way out of trouble or pressure the mesmer. Because of one skill tht has no cooldown the mesmer and engi are now in danger because im still one person they have to worry about if my team shows up. Whereas on the necro they can tag team and odds are i will die before my team shows up.

Instead of changing the stealth mechanic or removing it completely, i propose tracking abilities for all the classes except Rangers, Thieves and Mesmers.

Necro – Going into Deathshroud allows you to detect enemies in stealth. “Detect the souls of invisible foes” or something like that

Engineers- Sonar ability?

Warriors – Some type of 6th sense that allows em to hear the invisible, would probably translate to a visual feedback, like a pulsating figure

Guardians- Honestly, i think guardians should have a trait making them immune to attacks from stealth considering their effective attacks have such limited range and radius and the class itself is so immobile, but that is up for debate. Their tracking ability could be a symbol that appears over the heads of invisible enemies.

Elementalists- Ability to track the energy of invisible enemies. They’d probably see some form of light moving around.

Note: This doesnt mean while under stealth you can be targeted by single target attack, only Aoes naturally will still work.

Keep in mind there is still the Short Bow and other teleportation skills as welll as a high amount of dodges even with a reduced stealth effectiveness.

Well you can always go play games like AoC where stealth has been completely broken for years now.

Try hiding from a bunch of mobs 4 levels below you in the middle of the night in a completely closed cave with nothing but candles 40 feet away from you and when you sneak up behind them they somehow see you and aggro 100% of the time anyways. That’s how it works over there feel free to try it out. smh

Stealth is a necessary part of these fantasy games even STO has a cloaking device for ground missions. These threads are getting tiresome really. I find it funny that stealth is such a big deal when warriors can still do 5 mans solo. Because balance.

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game. I even see post about other player not logging and playing for long time because of stealth. 10 minute-1 hour+ should be worth time, not play children game; hide seek. Other game for that, not for guild wars 2

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

Read last post- Small children? who is play hide and seek?

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

He is right though…. unless you are a psychic, even the most experienced players lose track of stealthed opponents from time to time if he/she fails the guessing game.

Think about what stealth is.

Its purpose as a mechanic is to make your opponent unsure of where you are and what you are doing.

With thieves in particular, this gives them another opportunity to retreat and ooc when they feel like the fight is not going/will not go their way and when they want, they can simply return for another cheap shot. Unless you properly guess which direction the thief is retreating in, this will go on forever until someone makes a mistake.

It is literally impossible to predict where a fleeing opponent in stealth is going with 100% accuracy. Sure you can make educated guesses, and you will be right some of the time… but you will also be wrong some of the time as well.

All in all…. Everyone defending stealth always claims that its “not that hard” to know where stealthed opponents are. It’s “not hard” because difficulty plays no role in it. Its about making guesses, and if you guess wrong the stealthed opponent gets away.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

He is right though…. unless you are a psychic, even the most experienced players lose track of stealthed opponents from time to time if he/she fails the guessing game.

Think about what stealth is.

Its purpose as a mechanic is to make your opponent unsure of where you are and what you are doing.

With thieves in particular, this gives them another opportunity to retreat and ooc when they feel like the fight is not going/will not go their way and when they want, they can simply return for another cheap shot. Unless you properly guess which direction the thief is retreating in, this will go on forever until someone makes a mistake.

It is literally impossible to predict where a fleeing opponent in stealth is going with 100% accuracy. Sure you can make educated guesses, and you will be right some of the time… but you will also be wrong some of the time as well.

All in all…. Everyone defending stealth always claims that its “not that hard” to know where stealthed opponents are. It’s “not hard” because difficulty plays no role in it. Its about making guesses, and if you guess wrong the stealthed opponent gets away.

I don’t lose track of thieves as I main a thief myself. I sometimes lose track of mesmers, engineers and rangers as they’ve got different mechanics.
If an enemy flees, you’ve won. Warriors are faster than any other class, eles can be faster than most other classes, engineers can be faster, so sorry but I still don’t get your point and think it’s a L2P issue as those who say it’s not to hard usually know how to counter a thief. The best method to learn it is to have a thief. Enjoy =) it’s a great class but people insisted it to be nerfed into the ground because they are afraid of stealth – so you might die a lot.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Stealth is not challenge. Why? Example; if fight opponent in boxing ring and opponent health is almost down, than sudden opponent disappear and appear with full health. And opponent repeat same over and over, is challenge fight? is challenge hiding instead fighting?

This is main problem with thief class; too much stealth repeat and time waste. Other mmo game do not have this because game would not be challenge and fun and would waste time for player and game. So why arena net put it in game?

Again, main problem with stealth

1. Too much stealth repeat
2. Too much time waste

Player do not want waste time in game, player want challenge and fun. Stealth is enemy to fun and time waste in game.

If you waste time while your opponent is in stealth, then it’s your bad – thieves aren’t invincible when stealthed.
Sometimes I think I’m talking to small children “I’m sooo afraid of what I can’t see”.

He is right though…. unless you are a psychic, even the most experienced players lose track of stealthed opponents from time to time if he/she fails the guessing game.

Think about what stealth is.

Its purpose as a mechanic is to make your opponent unsure of where you are and what you are doing.

With thieves in particular, this gives them another opportunity to retreat and ooc when they feel like the fight is not going/will not go their way and when they want, they can simply return for another cheap shot. Unless you properly guess which direction the thief is retreating in, this will go on forever until someone makes a mistake.

It is literally impossible to predict where a fleeing opponent in stealth is going with 100% accuracy. Sure you can make educated guesses, and you will be right some of the time… but you will also be wrong some of the time as well.

All in all…. Everyone defending stealth always claims that its “not that hard” to know where stealthed opponents are. It’s “not hard” because difficulty plays no role in it. Its about making guesses, and if you guess wrong the stealthed opponent gets away.

I don’t lose track of thieves as I main a thief myself. I sometimes lose track of mesmers, engineers and rangers as they’ve got different mechanics.
If an enemy flees, you’ve won. Warriors are faster than any other class, eles can be faster than most other classes, engineers can be faster, so sorry but I still don’t get your point and think it’s a L2P issue as those who say it’s not to hard usually know how to counter a thief. The best method to learn it is to have a thief. Enjoy =) it’s a great class but people insisted it to be nerfed into the ground because they are afraid of stealth – so you might die a lot.

I’d be happy to duel you 1v1 and I’ll show you its not a l2p issue.

The point is that your argument “If an enemy flees, you’ve won.” does not cut it.

I should not lose out on a kill because someone stealths and runs away.
…especially if it just gives them the opportunity to come back after a moment or two and try again.

…and speed has nothing to do with it, when you don’t know where you should be going. If your opponent makes a b-line in one direction and you think he went the other way, you’ve only succeeded in putting more distance between him and yourself.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’d be happy to duel you 1v1 and I’ll show you its not a l2p issue.

The point is that your argument “If an enemy flees, you’ve won.” does not cut it.

I should not lose out on a kill because someone stealths and runs away.
…especially if it just gives them the opportunity to come back after a moment or two and try again.

You do know that I main a thief? So why would we duel because I see you standing around clueless while I’m stealthed?
We can do that if you’re on an EU server.
My point was that other classes who have no or little access to stealth can run away as well.

Edit: Try to catch a warrior – good luck with that, even if you know where he’s headed, same goes to other classes who have specced into “mobility”.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

I’d be happy to duel you 1v1 and I’ll show you its not a l2p issue.

The point is that your argument “If an enemy flees, you’ve won.” does not cut it.

I should not lose out on a kill because someone stealths and runs away.
…especially if it just gives them the opportunity to come back after a moment or two and try again.

You do know that I main a thief? So why would we duel because I see you standing around clueless while I’m stealthed?
We can do that if you’re on an EU server.
My point was that other classes who have no or little access to stealth can run away as well.

Yes I know you main thief, you said so less than 5 minutes ago. I’d like to prove to you that it is indeed not an L2P issue so you might actually listen instead of lumping legitimate complains with those which are frivolous.

back on topic….
When an opponent without stealth begins to flee….
You can see them as they flee and properly pursue since you can tell where they are headed.
You can swap to a ranged weapon, and actually hit them, since you have a target.
You can snare them; immobilize them, cripple them, freeze them, etc much more reliably.
You can see their hp, and know if it is worth to chase for an extra second or if you should abandon your cause and head back to point.

This thread is about adding damage splashes to stealthed opponents.
Why are you and many others who play thief so afraid of having damage splashes added?

Do you not think that is fair?

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

1) Sigil of fire does not proc 100% of the time and is not practical in all builds.
2) If it was possible to know where a stealthed opponent was at all times, stealth just would not work period.
3) Thieves can pressure with ranged attacks as well.

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

Thanks but I wasn’t looking for your advice nor do I care for it. I was simply sharing my opinion on a slight flaw in an otherwise good game mechanic. Something aimed at the Devs that may or may not read this thread.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Yes I know you main thief, you said so less than 5 minutes ago. I’d like to prove to you that it is indeed not an L2P issue so you might actually listen instead of lumping legitimate complains with those which are frivolous.

Why would I need to duel you to see that stealth is no learn to play issue? Makes no sense at all, that was why I was asking.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

back on topic….
When an opponent without stealth begins to flee….
You can see them as they flee and properly pursue since you can tell where they are headed.
You can swap to a ranged weapon, and actually hit them, since you have a target.
You can snare them; immobilize them, cripple them, freeze them, etc much more reliably.
You can see their hp, and know if it is worth to chase for an extra second or if you should abandon your cause and head back to point.

This thread is about adding damage splashes to stealthed opponents.
Why are you and many others who play thief so afraid of having damage splashes added?

Do you not think that is fair?

You can’t hit a fleeing warrior, except as a ranger. And even that might not really bother them. Try it.
We are rather annoyed because you guys don’t know anything about thieves but demand nerf after nerf and thief is nerfed and nerfed – it’s not that hard to understand, I guess.

Azhure.1857:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

Thanks but I wasn’t looking for your advice nor do I care for it. I was simply sharing my opinion on a slight flaw in an otherwise good game mechanic. Something aimed at the Devs that may or may not read this thread.

And I just told you that there already is an indicator you demanded – sorry that I tried to help.

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Jana.6831:

Why would I need to duel you to see that stealth is no learn to play issue? Makes no sense at all, that was why I was asking.

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

back on topic….
When an opponent without stealth begins to flee….
You can see them as they flee and properly pursue since you can tell where they are headed.
You can swap to a ranged weapon, and actually hit them, since you have a target.
You can snare them; immobilize them, cripple them, freeze them, etc much more reliably.
You can see their hp, and know if it is worth to chase for an extra second or if you should abandon your cause and head back to point.

This thread is about adding damage splashes to stealthed opponents.
Why are you and many others who play thief so afraid of having damage splashes added?

Do you not think that is fair?

You can’t hit a fleeing warrior, except as a ranger. And even that might not really bother them. Try it.
We are rather annoyed because you guys don’t know anything about thieves but demand nerf after nerf and thief is nerfed and nerfed – it’s not that hard to understand, I guess.

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted by dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team, and the entire time the whole thing plays mind games and creates uncertainty with the opponent.

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Sigil of fire triggers a fireblast when you hit the opponent (with a critical hit).
Any yeah, fighting melee classes with melee weapons is a good choice – you can always go ranged but that won’t do much good against thieves.

Stealth on thief is pretty balanced, they need stealth to land their special skills like backstab. Thief will also need to go melee to do high dmg. The problem is that classes like mesmer also have stealth. So this allows cheap zerker ranged builds with stealth.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Yeah lets talk about warriors in this thread about stealth…. classic strawman stuff happening right now in this thread, guys!

I play warrior in WvW from time to time, and I know the difference between having my mobility set on and having my dps set on….. You can’t change weapons in sPvP once the match has started. If you are running mobility you are sacrificing a lot of damage potential, and you are setting yourself up to lose a fight and need to flee to begin with. If you would have simply used your dps set, you would have probably won the fight, and if you are fleeing that only goes to show that you aren’t winning.

Thieves for example do not sacrifice any damage output to have their escape at their disposal.

Do you not see how this is imbalanced?

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

If a warrior is using a greatsword (best mobility) he is nerfing his 1v1 potential. Any competent dueling build will kill a warrior with a GS or at least make him run. Look at how many warriors you see using a GS in spvp. None.

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Sigil of fire triggers a fireblast when you hit the opponent (with a critical hit).
Any yeah, fighting melee classes with melee weapons is a good choice – you can always go ranged but that won’t do much good against thieves.

ok so you hit the thief while they were visible and your sigil proc but they reapply stealth, now what?

ok having a ranged weapon is useless so you are sol if you don’t have a melee weapon. gotcha. playing ranged is an insta loss scenario.

stand there swinging a melee weapon around is the best anti-stealth method. so “swing and pray” is your l2p advice. seems to be a great and well thought out combat mechanic…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Yeah lets talk about warriors in this thread about stealth…. classic strawman stuff happening right now in this thread, guys!

I play warrior in WvW from time to time, and I know the difference between having my mobility set on and having my dps set on….. You can’t change weapons in sPvP once the match has started. If you are running mobility you are sacrificing a lot of damage potential, and you are setting yourself up to lose a fight and need to flee to begin with. If you would have simply used your dps set, you would have probably won the fight, and if you are fleeing that only goes to show that you aren’t winning.

Thieves do not sacrifice any damage output to have their escape at their disposal.

Do you not see how this is imbalanced?

Ok, I see you don’t have any arguments any more so you need to divert from what we were talking about. Ok, mission accomplished, I guess, as my goal was that you guys start to wonder if not being able to fight a stealthed opponent might indeed be a L2P issue. So: have fun.

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Sigil of fire triggers a fireblast when you hit the opponent (with a critical hit).
Any yeah, fighting melee classes with melee weapons is a good choice – you can always go ranged but that won’t do much good against thieves.

ok so you hit the thief while they were visible and your sigil proc but they reapply stealth, now what?

ok having a ranged weapon is useless so you are sol if you don’t have a melee weapon. gotcha. playing ranged is an insta loss scenario.

stand there swinging a melee weapon around is the best anti-stealth method. so “swing and pray” is your l2p advice. seems to be a great and well thought out combat mechanic…

You can also spam aoe you will hit the thief 100%.
Edit: And they have no blocks or anything.

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Jana.6831:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

To prove to you that It is not an L2P issue.

And how would you do that?
You win: You’re a good player, since I’m likely stealthed in the fight you would show me that you know how to counter stealth.
You lose: Well, yeah how should I tell whether you’re a good or bad player?
Get my point?

TheBlackLeech.9360:

If a warrior is running a build that gives him enough mobility to actually escape, then he never posed a legitimate threat to begin with….

They do. Try some wvw roaming.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

But at any rate at least you know where he went and you aren’t waiting to see if he is going to pop back up next to you again.

They usually come back, depending on what their initial goal was.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

You know where they went and you know when they are gone…. and its not a guessing game.

They can come back just as fast as they ran.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Its hard to understand how you can attempt to justify something that needs to be adjusted without dancing around the subject at hand.

Stealth allows opponents to get away when they should have been turned into score for the other team.

No, sorry, others can get away too, it’s not just thieves and you lose out on the points as well.

Yeah lets talk about warriors in this thread about stealth…. classic strawman stuff happening right now in this thread, guys!

I play warrior in WvW from time to time, and I know the difference between having my mobility set on and having my dps set on….. You can’t change weapons in sPvP once the match has started. If you are running mobility you are sacrificing a lot of damage potential, and you are setting yourself up to lose a fight and need to flee to begin with. If you would have simply used your dps set, you would have probably won the fight, and if you are fleeing that only goes to show that you aren’t winning.

Thieves do not sacrifice any damage output to have their escape at their disposal.

Do you not see how this is imbalanced?

Ok, I see you don’t have any arguments any more so you need to divert from what we were talking about. Ok, mission accomplished, I guess, as my goal was that you guys start to wonder if not being able to fight a stealthed opponent might indeed be a L2P issue. So: have fun.

You are the one talking about warriors, I’m merely proving you wrong. Since you are the one out of arguments, and you have resorted to classic strawman arguments instead, I think you need to look in the mirror when you make that statement.

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated? I can’t really take this thread more then a bunch of people venting about something, trying to ease their irritation.

Let’s just remove stealth, evades, blinds from thieves and stealth, clones from mesmers to let scrubs kill them easily and be happy.

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Sigil of fire triggers a fireblast when you hit the opponent (with a critical hit).
Any yeah, fighting melee classes with melee weapons is a good choice – you can always go ranged but that won’t do much good against thieves.

ok so you hit the thief while they were visible and your sigil proc but they reapply stealth, now what?

ok having a ranged weapon is useless so you are sol if you don’t have a melee weapon. gotcha. playing ranged is an insta loss scenario.

stand there swinging a melee weapon around is the best anti-stealth method. so “swing and pray” is your l2p advice. seems to be a great and well thought out combat mechanic…

You can also spam aoe you will hit the thief 100%.
Edit: And they have no blocks or anything.

can you tell me all the spammable aoes per profession and build?

also, you didn’t answer my question.

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Swagger.1459:

Jana.6831:

Azhure.1857:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

At very least the game should still show damage splashes on opponents which have been struck.

(this, of course would not apply to projectiles or ranged attacks)

I agree here. It makes no sense that stealth is more than simple invisibility. If I strike an invisible opponent with a melee weapon then I should know that I hit them, instantly.

My L2P advise: equip a superior sigil of fire.
Edit: And there are in fact 17562481756234 indicators of where a thief is: best indicator is that thief is a melee class. So where can the thief be?

can you explain exactly how having a sigil of fire equipped is beneficial?

ok so the indicator is this???… assume that the thief is in melee range and hope that your melee weapon is equipped so you can spam #1 and pray to hit said invisible player?

Sigil of fire triggers a fireblast when you hit the opponent (with a critical hit).
Any yeah, fighting melee classes with melee weapons is a good choice – you can always go ranged but that won’t do much good against thieves.

ok so you hit the thief while they were visible and your sigil proc but they reapply stealth, now what?

ok having a ranged weapon is useless so you are sol if you don’t have a melee weapon. gotcha. playing ranged is an insta loss scenario.

stand there swinging a melee weapon around is the best anti-stealth method. so “swing and pray” is your l2p advice. seems to be a great and well thought out combat mechanic…

You can also spam aoe you will hit the thief 100%.
Edit: And they have no blocks or anything.

can you tell me all the spammable aoes per profession and build?

No, I can’t and I won’t (I see what you’re trying here) – just find them for your prefered class and equip the weapons necessary for it if you’re afraid of thieves or don’t like to spam 1.

Zero Day.2594:

Notice how it’s snowballing into absurdity.

Part of the reason why it is doing so is that you’re only focused on stealth. Let’s tweak it, and forget about the rest of the game. That’s already absurd.

But now that you’ve vented, and have seen that there are others that are also by your side… Do you at least feel a bit better? Or still irritated?

I’m irritated moreso than ever, because I have a legitimate complaint that is being dismissed as rubbish simply due to the fact that there have been so many frivolous complaints about stealth in the past.

We’ve got players who enjoy having the “stealth cushion” to prevent them from actually dying in a fight, will go to any lengths to defend it….

We’ve got players in here who are genuinely bad, and have no idea how stealth works and probably get rekt against stealth….

…and then there’s me who really enjoys stealth as a mechanic but I think the defensive aspect of it needs to be toned down a tiny bit.

…and nobody is even addressing the tweak I’ve suggested of adding a dmg splash to stealthed opponents, and instead everyone continues to dance around the subject and try and tell me I don’t know how to play the game, or pointlessly bash stealth because they have no idea how to fight a stealthed opponent.

Like everything that is hard to balance by altering individual skills, Stealth needs autobalance measures.

Once you have an autobalance system in place, you can’t have anyone abusing anything overlooked by the balance team by exploiting loopholes in balance, as autobalance kicks in.

For example, with stealth:

- Revealed time should be linked to damage done. The more damage you are doing, the less time you can stay cloaked . So if you get revealed by dealing a hit of very little damage, revealed should last a bit less than now, but if you get revealed by dealing a massive critical, it should last up to 1 or 2 seconds longer than now.
- There should be some form of “stealth sickness”. The more you spam stealth, the less you can stay cloaked. This would be adjusted in a way that would not affect most of the gameplay we currently have, but only the most extreme cases of players that stay more time hidden than in plain view, combined with the previous measure.

Lucky Shot.7650:

Let’s just remove stealth, evades, blinds from thieves and stealth, clones from mesmers to let scrubs kill them easily and be happy.

that’s not what most level headed players are really saying. stealth could be handled differently so they can balance other aspects to make for a better “all around” combat experience.