Guild Wars 2

I’m pretty sure Mike O’Brien will have told staff to leave this thread alone now. They’ll wait a couple of weeks or a month until people have stopped trying to communicate with Anet, and then they’ll come in and post some worthless compromise “We’ve passed your concerns on to the relevant teams for future reference.” And that’ll be the end of it.

This company has fallen so far since Guild Wars Prophecies. It’s indescribably sad.

lordkrall.7241:

The game is not close do dying. Nor will this change kill it. The vast majority of the players probably don’t even know/care about this change nor what is happening (or not happening) on the forums.

The thing is if people keep abusing the devs and the company they might simply decide that it is not worth posting at all or even have a forum for anything other than supports (as in Guild Wars 1). Which could quite easily mean that they would just close them down.

While I am all for a dial back on the incendiary rage, they aren’t going to close this forum for any reason than a lack of activity.

chemiclord.3978:

DarkMagister.7429:

Made myself a habit of purchasing gems for 10 gold each day. So that one day, when I want smth, I don’t think “that’s so expensive!”. Now I can’t do that.
Today I purchased gems for the thing I needed, got a leftover of 200, and really not planning to buy gems soon.

In, taking into consideration 1 day – ANet made a right decision: I purchased 400 gems, not 200 I needed. 200 Gems profit!

But in how many days from now that profit will turn to loss, adding every day?

Brilliant.

Here’s the thing though. And I think it’s the heart of the issue.

Arena.net DIDN’T get 200 gems profit from you. They got effectively NOTHING from you. And that’s THEIR problem here, see. Gold to gem conversions have been going up steadily without fail because more people have been converting to gems rather than buying them with IRL cash.

And don’t think that the executives don’t see that. This entire change is all about making the gold to gem conversion process as difficult and irritating as possible. Hell, if it wouldn’t amount to outright revolt, I bet you the gold to gem process would have been gone yesterday.

Because, ya know, as irritating as it is now, you STILL have more options than someone who buys gems with cold, hard cash. And Arena.net wants you doing THAT, because THAT is money.

Which is also why you probably aren’t going to see any significant change on this score. They really couldn’t care less that you keep your gold. They wrote you off as a drain to their cash model long ago. They’re now targeting the F2P crowd that is well used to this model, and have come to accept it. Because THAT crowd spends money. They spend a LOT of money. And probably far more than everyone complaining in this thread put together.

its a matter of perspective, they actually got their money from every gem created.
Basically the system allows them to monetize people with no money, by having them create a product to sell to people who dont want anything in the gemstore. (gold)

point is, they make money off these players desires for gems. What they probably realized is, the bottom line is, the more gems that are desired, the more money they make. The system of allowing people to select gem amounts is not as profitable as forcing them to have more gems than they need, or needing to overbuy. So they apply it ingame as well now.

point is, dont think they dont make money off people who buy gems with gold, its a profitable system.

lordkrall.7241:

Do people really think that abusing the company and more specifically their employees will help?

These companies have done little to show anything else. It’s unfortunate. But simply look at the commander tags.

Initially posted that it’d cost 300g PER color after a blue you might already have.

People posted reasonably, hey that’s a bit much could we get like cheaper prices for additional colors?

ANet posts “Nope”

Players flip their kitten and rant and rave for a few days,

ANet changes their mind.

So… which one is effective, being reasonable, or flipping your kitten? Well…

lordkrall.7241:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Does the game dyeing due to poor decisions not cross peoples minds at all, or the lack of feedback to the concerns voiced?

The game is not close do dying. Nor will this change kill it. The vast majority of the players probably don’t even know/care about this change nor what is happening (or not happening) on the forums.

The thing is if people keep abusing the devs and the company they might simply decide that it is not worth posting at all or even have a forum for anything other than supports (as in Guild Wars 1). Which could quite easily mean that they would just close them down.

the game was losing profits, as evidenced by the Quarterly reports, they wanted to alter that report for this quarter. They will probably succeed. In the long run they are damaging the brand.

chemiclord.3978:

While I am all for a dial back on the incendiary rage, they aren’t going to close this forum for any reason than a lack of activity.

To be fair they did close down the Match-Up threads in WvW for exactly this reason (but for the abuse towards other players and servers rather than the company) so it is not really something unheard of.

ZaxanRazor.6235:

This company has fallen so far since Guild Wars Prophecies. It’s indescribably sad.

Was this the same company who felt it necessary to nerf several almost harmless farms in the Crystal Desert? The same one which had the Favor of the Gods exist only so long as your region could keep winning in the Hall of Heroes, otherwise you needed scrolls to access Underworld/Fissure of Woe? The same one which had refund points early on until they disappeared, preventing you from really experimenting within a class/subclass structure unless you devoted a lot of grind time to leveling?

It amazes me how people forget about that sort of thing.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, guys. Some of you are unhappy about this change, I can see that. BUT… quite honestly, most of you are sort of (I hate to use the word) ranting (sorry!) instead of offering suggestions.

I assure you, the team leader told me not 15 minutes ago, they will listen to suggestions.

• Does that mean you get everything you want? Probably not.
• Does that mean you should suggest something? Yes, of course! Because they’re expecting player input.

So you want lower increments? Think it through and present a suggestion! You want XYZ in the interface? Post that idea. You would rather see something else? Post what you think about that other thing. Please don’t get into the whole “I’m going to kick the devs and their little dogs, too” because it’s not doing you or us any good at all.

I’m not here to apologize. I’m here to communicate and right now, the communication is coming in without a whole lot of substance. Over to you for suggestions and constructive input!

I believe that you could stop the protest, out cries, and rants all by simply allowing a more flexible scale of exchange.

If dev is listening, please hear this: many people are seeing this as a gimmick to get us to buy gems in increments of 400. It’s all over reddit, and this forum. If you are truly listening and looking for constructive input, reduce the increments to something more manageable, like 100 gems. Increments of 50 would be nice, but 100 seems like the magic number.

There are several items in the gem store well under 400 gems. Increments of 100 would allow us to purchase just the amount we need, not more than we need.

Gold is hard to come by. Don’t make us spend gold that we don’t want to. It makes us resent you all, which I don’t like to do. Been playing since 2005. We love and trust you guys. Don’t take that trust away.

lordkrall.7241:

Sure a response would be nice, but when people are abusive like they are in here I don’t really think anyone at ArenaNet is all that interested in actually giving a response.

People also have to keep in mind that things takes time. They need to make decisions and such before giving an actual response.

If people really want a response, maybe they should start by understanding that the red posters are actual people as well?

Communication is their nemesis and this situation is no different. Do you really believe that in the past few months of this kind of content changes they haven’t foreseen the backlash that would occur, trust me they have, they have a team that works specifically on the monetization aspect of the game.

Honesty doesn’t need 20 hours of spin time, and the fact that people in general become complacent enough to continue to accept that behavior is why these things happen in the first place. It takes very little time for someone to come here and say" we know there are many upset and we are looking at adopting a change which could take a little time". Acknowledge the problem for what it is instead of deflecting blame elsewhere, accept that a mistake was made and move to find a solution, simple as that.
Trust me the longer this goes the more they look like they have something to hide and that was done intentionally and for exactly the reasons people claim it was., a money grab.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fernling.1729:

lordkrall.7241:

Do people really think that abusing the company and more specifically their employees will help?

Haven’t you noticed, it’s the only way for them to acknowledge the playerbase’s concerns.
Well, apparently support tickets by new players saying the currency converter is confusing seems to grab their attention too.

And here is what I was afraid of with them continually responding to outcries the most and people feeling okay to throw tantrums rather than hold discussions. This sentiment, right here, that the only way to get an answer is to threaten, belittle, and in general make a scene.

Welp, I now know what I must do to get my asura-firing trebuchet.

sometimes civilized responses are the least effecient means of change. Understand, if you have a large amount of people throwing tantrums, its probably because there is a reason. Numerous non regular posters logged in here to complain. They dont usually throw tantrums, but they are now.

Sometimes someones behavior incites tantrums, when unreasonable things happen, people tend to become unreasonable in response

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fernling.1729:

lordkrall.7241:

Do people really think that abusing the company and more specifically their employees will help?

Haven’t you noticed, it’s the only way for them to acknowledge the playerbase’s concerns.
Well, apparently support tickets by new players saying the currency converter is confusing seems to grab their attention too.

And here is what I was afraid of with them continually responding to outcries the most and people feeling okay to throw tantrums rather than hold discussions. This sentiment, right here, that the only way to get an answer is to threaten, belittle, and in general make a scene.

Welp, I now know what I must do to get my asura-firing trebuchet.

I’m not saying I agree with this. It’s quite pathetic really, for both sides.
The fact that they don’t communicate changes before developing/releasing changes like this beforehand is rather disconcerting.
Surprise updates that kitten off the players seem to happen all too often in GW2. It all leads back to their issues with communication.(imo)

I’m never going to buy gems with real money again. And I urge everyone to do the same. This will get their attention.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ZaxanRazor.6235:

This company has fallen so far since Guild Wars Prophecies. It’s indescribably sad.

Was this the same company who felt it necessary to nerf several almost harmless farms in the Crystal Desert? The same one which had the Favor of the Gods exist only so long as your region could keep winning in the Hall of Heroes, otherwise you needed scrolls to access Underworld/Fissure of Woe? The same one which had refund points early on until they disappeared, preventing you from really experimenting within a class/subclass structure unless you devoted a lot of grind time to leveling?

It amazes me how people forget about that sort of thing.

Nostalgia removes the bad parts.

On topic.

Used to mad, just relatively disappointed now. It’s hurting people who:

a: Want things from the gem store
b: Dont want to pay

While still allowing them to do so provided they farm until they’re sick.

It makes sense, if you consider Anet actually wants to profit from the gem store. Consider the possibility that the people who are aggravated at the gem store are clamoring “pay to win” and are generally displeased with everything being gem store only.

Maybe there are more people farming things out of the gemstore than is tolerable at the moment so there’s been a forced difficulty spike.

Deactivating rage. Still displeased because gem to gold is a cakewalk while gold to gem is impossihard relatively.

I have a question here…. if someone trades you in-game currency “so you can use it in the game to purchase items” and then changes the rules in such a matter than it cannot be used unless you buy even more, isn’t it actually fraud/scam that you can (and should) sue Anet for?

….sadly the “oh it’s a natural price rise of over 25% that never happened before but for sure is natural and we’re not trying to scam you” lie can’t be verified at court. Sad stuff….

SmilingBandit.8079:

Wetpaw.3487:

Revenue down, squeeze the community w/o adding anything substantial for us to support.
&
http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-gemgate

Keep up the good work NCsoft, I can see your making a great name for yourself with Wildstar and GW2.

This was all Arena Net (Americans). NC-Soft does no longer have a saying within GW2 as far as I know!

Just a reminder…Arenanet is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft.

Shen Slayer.3058:

I’m never going to buy gems again. And I urge everyone to do the same. This will get their attention.

a full boycott of gems would be noticeable, but it would require them to boycott both gold and cash as a means to get gems.

Roybe.5896:

SmilingBandit.8079:

Wetpaw.3487:

Revenue down, squeeze the community w/o adding anything substantial for us to support.
&
http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-gemgate

Keep up the good work NCsoft, I can see your making a great name for yourself with Wildstar and GW2.

This was all Arena Net (Americans). NC-Soft does no longer have a saying within GW2 as far as I know!

Just a reminder…Arenanet is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft.

which means there is generally a very strong separation of powers. If ncsoft was running the day to day or development it wouldnt be a subsidiary.

lordkrall.7241:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Does the game dyeing due to poor decisions not cross peoples minds at all, or the lack of feedback to the concerns voiced?

The thing is if people keep abusing the devs and the company they might simply decide that it is not worth posting at all or even have a forum for anything other than supports (as in Guild Wars 1). Which could quite easily mean that they would just close them down.

So removing even more features will quiet things down?

That may have worked in the past, but today people have access to so many more outlets, like Twitter, Reddit, FB/G+ that this strategy won’t work – it will simply fan the flames.

Face it – Anet is s c r e w i n g their fans for money.

They sold out.

That’s all there is to it.

not even asking to just revert it

all you need is to add more options, more conversion options

instead of stopping at 400, make that side of the page scrollable (not that hard id imagine) and add 300, 200, 100, 50, 25, 10

also maybe add more increments past 1g for gold to gems

am i just a silly dreamer, or does this sound do-able

lordkrall.7241:

Sure a response would be nice, but when people are abusive like they are in here I don’t really think anyone at ArenaNet is all that interested in actually giving a response.

People also have to keep in mind that things takes time. They need to make decisions and such before giving an actual response.

If people really want a response, maybe they should start by understanding that the red posters are actual people as well?

See, although I understand your desire to defend them because (yes) they are people, there are plenty of people who are willing to have an adult conversation about the change and react in a calm manner.

That a lot of people are angry or “toxic” only goes so far as an excuse not to communicate. If everyone is screaming, then yes, it’s not going to do a whole lot, but everyone isn’t screaming. In fact, a lot of people are rather calm about the whole thing – they just disagree very strongly with the change.

The problem is, every time they (or someone defending them) uses toxicity as an excuse for them not communicating, it just irritates the people who do their darnedest to remain calm and reasonable. And it also screws over the people who are willing to put their best foot forward.

In short, it’s like saying, “Some of it’s bad, so that’s why they won’t go near it.” I mean, life in general has good and bad. You can’t live under a rock because you’re going to encounter the bad sometimes.

For every rude post toward a dev, I see plenty of showering of praise and reasoned discussion when they actually take the time to talk. I think the reaction to Gaile’s posts in this thread was largely an exception to the rule and it’s probably because she didn’t know enough to be reassuring at all.

I imagine she probably saw “angry feedback thread” and assumed it was much less significant of an issue than it actually is. Which would be understandable, considering the number of negative threads that get posted.

Peachy Keene.9215:

Jacobbs.9468:

Peachy Keene.9215:

There have been pretty much non-stop posts in this thread all day and yet the last “feedback” we got was 19 hours ago. Where are the devs?

Having lunch, duh!

I guess it’s taking a little longer than usual because they only wanted a couple of sandwiches but had to buy 400 of them.

Sorry to repost this, but by far the best post on this thread.

Was gonna wonder if Anet has any feet left, from shooting themselves in the foot over and over and over…

But i guess they must be swimming in truckloads of lotsa-dollars-spending new players.
Cos they keep annoying/upsetting/kittening off current/older players.

islarose.7356:

Retain the preset system for those you think won’t be able to understand it, and add an alternative that doesn’t force “Veteran Players” to be locked in to specific amounts, or with excess gems they can’t liquidate for gold.

Problem:
The new system is restrictive and limits choice. Players are forced to buy more than is needed for the items they want, and are unable to exchange the excess gems to gold without left over gems. The market graph has been removed, which removes an element of transparency to the system, which is problematic for those who want to make purchases with confidence.

New players rarely have access to enough gold to make the lowest gold to gem conversion, and those that do have access to enough gold surely have a keen understanding of game systems and/or gem purchasing mechanisms. If the “ease of use” is to encourage gem purchases with cash, and conversions to gold, the amounts available guarantee a remainder that is useless and a loss for the player (they paid for 400 gems, but are unable to convert the full gem amount into gold, and thus have a remainder of gems that are useless for future purchases, i.e., 1-3 gems).

Solution:
Return flexible options to players. The vast majority understand the system, and feel upset and alienated with this change. Many do make conversions of small amounts, especially to make up for the discrepancies between gem purchase amounts and item pricing, which is of course an intended system to encourage more sales.

— Add a slider that allows players to adjust for precise conversions (Important: not limited to set amounts). This allows players to see the conversion ratio, and offers precision so players are not left with excess gems, nor are they forced into spending a significant amount more that they can or wish to.

— Add a text input field, again, for precise conversions. You can even hide it behind a “Advanced option” or “Other amount” button. This will lead to an additional tab/window/field that provides input fields like any other currency converter (the google currency converter, for example).

If you’re really doing this because of the few players who opened tickets for “accidental” purchases, perhaps add a confirmation screen. “You are about to exchange X gold for X gems. OK / Cancel”

- Re-add the market history graph. This allowed players to make informed decisions based on value patterns, and it was an interesting aspect of the conversion besides.

This is a very good post. Thanks for putting it into words skillfully, Islarose.

They apparently have stats to prove that most users only purchase large amounts of gems at a time.

I say forget those stats.

This thread isn’t just people who buy gems with gold. It’s also people standing up for the people who buy gems with gold.

You don’t get to mistreat anyone, regardless of how they choose to play. We stand up for WvW even when we don’t play it ourselves. We stand up for role-playing even when we don’t role play. We stand up for Fractal runners even if we find Fractals boring.

We want more players even more than you do. But we also care about the current players. You only seem to care about the theoretical “new player.”

You call us standing up for each other “non-constructive.” I call you mistreating us “very destructive.”

Stop neglecting us.

phys.7689:

which means there is generally a very strong separation of powers. If ncsoft was running the day to day or development it wouldnt be a subsidiary.

Subsidiaries do what they are told. The day to day operations are managed in-house, but their activities are directed by the parent company.

Additionally, anything to do with monetization is 100% NCSoft-driven.

Basically, NCSoft says “make and maintain this game”, and ArenaNet does so. If NCSoft then says “We need you to make more money off of gem conversions, set a minimum price”, ArenaNet does so.

All they really need is a 200 or 100. That way they can still discourage people from grinding gems to buy small items in the gem store while making people that buy gems from them more comfortable in grinding out whatever supplemental gems they need.

Heads up, this might be merged.

Koviko.3248:

They apparently have stats to prove that most users only purchase large amounts of gems at a time.

I say forget those stats.

This thread isn’t just people who buy gems with gold. It’s also people standing up for the people who buy gems with gold.

You don’t get to mistreat anyone, regardless of how they choose to play. We stand up for WvW even when we don’t play it ourselves. We start up for role-playing even when we don’t role play. We stand up for Fractal runners even if we find Fractals boring.

We want more players even more than you do. But we care about the current players. You only seem to care about the theoretical “new player.”

You call us standing up for each other “non-constructive.” I call you mistreated us “very destructive.”

Stop neglecting us.

the stats are irrelevant, its a smokescreen, just because most things cost more than 5 dollars doesnt mean 5 dollars is a useless denomination. sure most people spend more than 400, they spend 450 500 575 625 700 900 etc, the point is its totally irrelevant for denominations of money what the minimum expenditures is.

people need to make change. And change is still in existence because it is highly neccessary. I guarantee you a 1 dollar bill sees more use than a 50 dollar bill.

phys.7689:

Sometimes someones behavior incites tantrums, when unreasonable things happen, people tend to become unreasonable in response

Right, this feels like deception, and involves real money. If I was going to rant about anything — this would be it.

Honestly, many posts are just variants of put it back or let me chose, without much vitriol. I’m sure they know what we want — in that sense this thread has run it’s course.

Shaaba.5672:

Peachy Keene.9215:

Jacobbs.9468:

Peachy Keene.9215:

There have been pretty much non-stop posts in this thread all day and yet the last “feedback” we got was 19 hours ago. Where are the devs?

Having lunch, duh!

I guess it’s taking a little longer than usual because they only wanted a couple of sandwiches but had to buy 400 of them.

Sorry to repost this, but by far the best post on this thread.

Don’t be… This is probably the only way they might even begin to understand the problem. Present them a real life scenario.

I want 1 sandwich please….
Sorry, the minimum number you can buy now is 400.

People who have 85 gold in the bank do not qualify as “new players.” This is just a depressing change.

mtpelion.4562:

phys.7689:

which means there is generally a very strong separation of powers. If ncsoft was running the day to day or development it wouldnt be a subsidiary.

Subsidiaries do what they are told. The day to day operations are managed in-house, but their activities are directed by the parent company.

Additionally, anything to do with monetization is 100% NCSoft-driven.

Basically, NCSoft says “make and maintain this game”, and ArenaNet does so. If NCSoft then says “We need you to make more money off of gem conversions, set a minimum price”, ArenaNet does so.

ncsoft probably says, i better see your earnings go up this quarter, and arenanet has to figure and develop how its done. The fact that ncsoft wanted an expansion year one, and anet went a different path suggests they dont have iron control.

I could see Arena.net eventually caving and offering 200 increments. But you’re not going to see much more than that. The entire goal of this change is try and discourage gold → gem transactions.

The hope is that by doing so they’ll encourage cash → gems → gems left over → more cash → more gems.

In short, how pretty much every other cash shop in existence does things.

I disagree that 200 or 100 is low enough. I think the very lowest that is acceptable is 1. If they can add 100 they can add 10, 4, or 1. We already know they’re capable of making it a custom amount, why should we accept any less.
If they need to make more money, do it a different way that is less scummy.

I need 114 gems for the outfit I want to buy and now for some reason the min. I am allowed to buy is 400.

Please change it back to the system that allowed me to buy 114 gems. If you want this new shiny skrit interface, not a problem , but please add the one that allowed me to buy 114 gems.

Thanks.

phys.7689:

mtpelion.4562:

phys.7689:

which means there is generally a very strong separation of powers. If ncsoft was running the day to day or development it wouldnt be a subsidiary.

Subsidiaries do what they are told. The day to day operations are managed in-house, but their activities are directed by the parent company.

Additionally, anything to do with monetization is 100% NCSoft-driven.

Basically, NCSoft says “make and maintain this game”, and ArenaNet does so. If NCSoft then says “We need you to make more money off of gem conversions, set a minimum price”, ArenaNet does so.

ncsoft probably says, i better see your earnings go up this quarter, and arenanet has to figure and develop how its done. The fact that ncsoft wanted an expansion year one, and anet went a different path suggests they dont have iron control.

The fact that they had a different path early on and are now failing to meet revenue standards may suggest that iron control is happening now (hence the recent updates that have gotten so many people riled up). Just food for thought. You’d obviously have to be working in one of the two to know what’s really going on, at which point your NDA would prevent you from talking about it.

After the 400-gem minimum, the part I find most irritating is the gold amounts are static, leaving the gem amounts to fluctuate.

Ahem
That’s not how we spend our gems, people!

It should be easier to spend gems, not harder or more obnoxious. Case in point:
I buy 800 gems. (Past tense, already bought, quite a few times.)
Pick up the 700 gem nifty of the biweekly period.
Sit on the remaining 100 for the next run -OR- Sell that 100 on the gem market for a nifty gold boost.

When it comes to gems→gold, I don’t think most people are trying to get a specific amount of gold, and if they are, there should be a system for on the UI.

=Gold Section=
“I want to buy [amount] gold” and it tells how many gems are needed.
“I want to sell [amount] gems” and it tells how much gold you get back.

…it’s not that hard. :\

lordkrall.7241:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Does the game dyeing due to poor decisions not cross peoples minds at all, or the lack of feedback to the concerns voiced?

The game is not close do dying. Nor will this change kill it. The vast majority of the players probably don’t even know/care about this change nor what is happening (or not happening) on the forums.

The thing is if people keep abusing the devs and the company they might simply decide that it is not worth posting at all or even have a forum for anything other than supports (as in Guild Wars 1). Which could quite easily mean that they would just close them down.

You’re right, but if one player says “enough” and stops logging in and buying gems, then another player will, and another player will, and not to mention that we are in guilds, where we most certainly will vent our frustrations over these changes and like a virus, the animosity will grow until only the few diehards are left standing around in a borderland or in Cursed Shore pondering where all the people went.

Don’t kid yourself – Change starts with YOU, and no one else. If you’re unhappy with the changes, just don’t log in. They’ll get the message sooner or later and it’ll hit’m harder than coming here and complaining.

billanator.1259:

I think whoever thought that having set amounts and no user-set amounts was a good idea should be fired. No one is gonna have exactly 800 gems to convert to gold if they buy something, like a 200 gem skin, beforehand. I now have one gem that I can’t do a bleeding thing with. I’ma quit buying gems until you guys Un-FUBAR this mess.

Nexon happened.

Rauderi.8706:

After the 400-gem minimum, the part I find most irritating is the gold amounts are static, leaving the gem amounts to fluctuate.

Ahem
That’s not how we spend our gems, people!

It should be easier to spend gems, not harder or more obnoxious.

They WANT you to have excess gems.

That’s HOW it works. You have these odd number of gems, the OCD kicks in, and you buy MORE gems to try and get something you probably wouldn’t have bought normally because it “fixes” the balance (but not entirely).

And it’s a method that works very, very well.

Guys lets all discuss

Guild Wars 2 $GemGate from TenTonHammer
http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-gemgate

EDIT: ups wrong Symbol, sorry(Not) Guys

An interesting thing about this thread — if you click on random names you find many posters who haven’t posted anything for months. As opposed to say the Traits thread, which is mostly frequent posters.

Hardly scientific, but this change seems to be of more interest to the less frequent posters.

chemiclord.3978:

Rauderi.8706:

After the 400-gem minimum, the part I find most irritating is the gold amounts are static, leaving the gem amounts to fluctuate.

Ahem
That’s not how we spend our gems, people!

It should be easier to spend gems, not harder or more obnoxious.

They WANT you to have excess gems.

That’s HOW it works. You have these odd number of gems, the OCD kicks in, and you buy MORE gems to try and get something you probably wouldn’t have bought normally because it “fixes” the balance (but not entirely).

And it’s a method that works very, very well.

Also, if you have to buy more gems that means the price of Gems to gold will rise, and that makes the “Buy gems with Real money” alot more attractive for players that equals Anet getting more money.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Bellizare.5816:

LOL, looks like torches and pitchforks time.

And Gaile, people are reacting in an understandable manner.

It’s because they are angry.

The big question in my mind, is why?

Yeah, I was thinking the same about the pitchforks and torches.

I don’t discount players when they are upset, though, and I truly understand that sometimes things hit close to home and cause some angst, anger, upset, any sort of reaction. (I’d think it was possible to have the discussion without it devolving into unpleasantness, but then, I always was an optimist! )

I asked a quick question of a team leader about the changes. I thought the answers were pretty clear so I posted them. But if you want more info, maybe there’s more to be learned and I’ll ask about that tomorrow.

The answer is simple, its about the money. If you’d simply admit that most people would be less angry about it. They are mostly angry about you blaming it on new players when new players don’t even have enough gold to convert to gems, among many other bs excuses.

Something bad enough that we all went to forums in a giant mess of “Ummm… wtf anet?”

synergy.5809:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Bellizare.5816:

LOL, looks like torches and pitchforks time.

And Gaile, people are reacting in an understandable manner.

It’s because they are angry.

The big question in my mind, is why?

Yeah, I was thinking the same about the pitchforks and torches.

I don’t discount players when they are upset, though, and I truly understand that sometimes things hit close to home and cause some angst, anger, upset, any sort of reaction. (I’d think it was possible to have the discussion without it devolving into unpleasantness, but then, I always was an optimist! )

I asked a quick question of a team leader about the changes. I thought the answers were pretty clear so I posted them. But if you want more info, maybe there’s more to be learned and I’ll ask about that tomorrow.

The answer is simple, its about the money. If you’d simply admit that most people would be less angry about it. They are mostly angry about you blaming it on new players when new players don’t even have enough gold to convert to gems, among many other bs excuses.

They think we are stupid and wouldn’t see thru their scheme.

lordkrall.7241:

I keep seeing people shout about how this is milking people out of money and I really don’t see how that really makes any kind of sense.
The prices for gems are still exactly the same as they were back at release.

The fact remains that they don’t even have to have the gold to gem transfer in the first place. If they really wanted to milk the players they would remove it completely, which they quite clearly haven’t done.

I’ll respond, krall.

First of all, removing gold for gems completely would do two things:

1. If you think the negative reaction to this change is large and abusive, just think how bad the reaction would be if they removed that option.
2. Gold for gems works for ANet because people buy gems to exchange for gold who might otherwise not spend money for gems.

As to the potential for increased profitability with this change, the psychological factors are:

1. People are impulsive, especially with regard to things they enjoy. Look up “impulse purchase.”
2. Discretionary resources tend to get used rather than saved. The expression, “Money burns a hole in your pocket” refers to this tendency.
3. People are, by-and-large, impatient.

How these factors work together is:

1. Player sees something s/he wants. Impulse takes over.
2. Player obtains gems to purchase that item. Cash-for-gems has always been in fixed increments where being able to purchase the exact amount is happenstance. This is now also true of gold-for-gems.
3. Post purchase, the player is likely to have leftover gems. Some of them will buy stuff they don’t mind having but would not have bought if they had to allocate the money directly. The reasoning there is, the gems are there, I don’t want to waste them.
4. But wait, having the exact amount for this new purchase would be, again, happenstance. If s/he doesn’t have the exact amount, s/he’d have to purchase more gems. Remember, s/he paid for the leftover gems and doesn’t like seeing them “go to waste.” Whether s/he waits or spends sooner, s/he will likely be faced (again) with a surplus. Thus, the situation perpetuates itself.
5. With regard to gold-to-gems, the new system requires a minimum amount of gold to participate. For some people, it takes a long time to accumulate that much gold. Because of impatience, they might buy gems with cash.

Make no mistake, the companies that use virtual currency and sell the currency in bulk lots know the psychological factors that make people tick, and the bulk purchase system is designed to take advantage to increase profits.

Now, I’m not going to say that companies can’t try to make money. I am going to say that bulk virtual currency purchases exploit human weaknesses.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Here are a few tidbits from the team:

• A lot of newer players had trouble with the interface. That doesn’t apply to you, you’re veterans who have been around the conversion block a time or two. But newer players will benefit from the updated system.
• The goal was to make the Gem Store more like other shopping experiences, and if you think about it, there is more of that feel to it now.
• You may be surprised to know this (I know I was) but very few people bought gems at smaller denominations than the first one offered in the new system. That’s not to say they never did, nor that there wouldn’t be the desire to do so. But overall, the current options were selected based on player purchases in the past.
• The team is going to listen to your feedback and, if and when it’s practical and desirable, they can look towards adjusting the new system to better meet your needs.

So please keep your thoughts coming on the new system. Feel free to make suggestions but please, keeping them constructive would be very much appreciated.

Where are you finding all these new players that are so easily confused by things like skills, traits, utilities at lower levels, and now how gems/gold conversion works? The loony bin? An elementary school? If you are having to dumb down the game to this extent, maybe the rest of us would rather they dont come here. I know what dumbing down the game did for WoW, I would prefer this game didnt repeat that mistake.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ok, guys. Some of you are unhappy about this change, I can see that. BUT… quite honestly, most of you are sort of (I hate to use the word) ranting (sorry!) instead of offering suggestions.

I assure you, the team leader told me not 15 minutes ago, they will listen to suggestions.

• Does that mean you get everything you want? Probably not.
• Does that mean you should suggest something? Yes, of course! Because they’re expecting player input.

So you want lower increments? Think it through and present a suggestion! You want XYZ in the interface? Post that idea. You would rather see something else? Post what you think about that other thing. Please don’t get into the whole “I’m going to kick the devs and their little dogs, too” because it’s not doing you or us any good at all.

I’m not here to apologize. I’m here to communicate and right now, the communication is coming in without a whole lot of substance. Over to you for suggestions and constructive input!

I want to be able to put my own quantities into the “Get Gems” box, remembered across logins. Not sure about the “Get Gold” box though, I don’t use that.

The old system was fine. The only two changes I would have made to it:

For Gold → Gems: Enter desired number of gems. Previous system only allowed for entering amount of gold and gems are calculated accordingly. If you don’t have enough gold, it won’t work.

For Gems → Gold: Enter desired amount of gold. If you don’t have enough gems to make the conversion work, it won’t let you convert.

If you must include a minimum+fixed buy in, start at 100 with 50/100 gem increments, but include the option for custom gem/gold amounts.

chemiclord.3978:

Here’s the thing though. And I think it’s the heart of the issue.

Arena.net DIDN’T get 200 gems profit from you. They got effectively NOTHING from you. And that’s THEIR problem here, see. Gold to gem conversions have been going up steadily without fail because more people have been converting to gems rather than buying them with IRL cash.

As has been discussed on the forums many times, ANet actually makes up to twice as much money by allowing Gold→Gem conversions than they would if they only sold Gems for RL $.

When the price of Gems is relatively stable, that means that there as just as many gems going INTO the Exchange as there are coming OUT of the Exchange; hence, the stable price. The only way Gems get INTO the Exchange is someone specifically buys Gems (with RL Money) and sells those Gems for gold.

Another way you can think of it is like this – Every single gem that is used in the Gem Store was bought with RL $. Every single one. YOU may have used gold to buy them, but someone else had to use RL $ and put them into the Exchange in order for you to be able to buy them with Gold.

Without the Gem Exchange, they will have to rely solely on players who can afford to buy Gems JUST for Gem Store items. No more will they be able to buy Gems and sell them for InGame gold (Unless they make some arbitrary static exchange rate).

So if you really stop and think about it, when you buy Gems with InGame gold, you’re still generating a profit for ArenaNet because someone had to buy those Gems with RL $ and sell them for gold in the first place. If that option didn’t exist, then ANet would undoubtedly lose a lot of Gem Sales as I know a lot of people who specifically buy Gems JUST to trade them for gold (I have a Guildy who is buying enough Gems for 1,200g so he can buy a precursor right now. Seriously.) Those Gems will go into the Exchange, and someone else will be able to buy them FOR gold (at a total of a 28.5% transaction fee overall. It’s not a bad gold sink, either!).