Guild Wars 2

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

Well considering my main only has 60% map completion, none of witch are the maps that unlock traits, I reckon would be traits I’m missing.

I only finished personal story when I reached lv80.
I only tried dungeons at lv65 (because I join a very easy going guild.)

I hadn’t tried a single world boss til lv 80.

I did level up before this trait system.
But this system locks traits behind lv 60 and lv80 content. Which obviously means people aren’t going to know what those traits do til they’re able to unlock them (lv80)..meaning they’re gonna know less about they’re character than before this trait system, at lv 80.

I did the obvious which is to create my characters before they implemented the system.

That being said, I dont’ find too much difference leveling with or without traits, its not like leveing is hard.

And even with the trait locks… you don’t need to unlock every traits, but you probably need to do some research before to know which traits is useful that is worth unlocking.

Taygus.4571:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

Well considering my main only has 60% map completion, none of witch are the maps that unlock traits, I reckon would be traits I’m missing.

I only finished personal story when I reached lv80.
I only tried dungeons at lv65 (because I join a very easy going guild.)

I hadn’t tried a single world boss til lv 80.

I did level up before this trait system.
But this system locks traits behind lv 60 and lv80 content. Which obviously means people aren’t going to know what those traits do til they’re able to unlock them (lv80)..meaning they’re gonna know less about they’re character than before this trait system, at lv 80.

Fair enough but I’m still not convinced. I think people are going to be better at playing their characters, with using unlocked traits just the icing on the cake.

It’s really just going to come down to the sort of person a player is and their approach to things.

laokoko.7403:

And even with the trait locks… you don’t need to unlock every traits, but you probably need to do some research before to know which traits is useful that is worth unlocking.

But that in the end lets you just use a cookie cutter build you found somewhere in the internet instead of trying to experiment with different builds yourself.

Especially since we now can experiment more because we can respec for free everywhere in the world, what is really good for old chars now. I used that a lot in the last time to make me builds that fit my playstyle for the classes i didn’t liked that much till now like Ele and Mesmer .. but for the second Ele i have leveled the last days i just bought exactly what my first Ele has actually equipped.
But at least i am in the lucky situation that i have one with all traits unlocked so i can test with that character.

RlyOsim.2497:

eotm says hi.
5 levels per hour.

Read this and chuckled. I just introduced a guildie to EotM this past weekend, since he was looking at quick ways to level his [relatively] new character. He’s like “why the hell did no one tell me about this before!?” Like we did yea dummy, months ago. sigh Boy he felt dumb.

Back on topic….
I don’t find leveling to be slower or more tedious than before honestly. The change to when trait points start accumulating is something I take note of now (which I didn’t before, they were just that ‘one more thing’ you got every level), but I still forget to do anything with them. So my play hasn’t changed…. I still end up leveling most of the way to 80 before I have the ‘duh you should be using these, you idiot’ moment and actually spend the points. It is nice; however, to be randomly playing along and get the pop up ‘you unlocked such and such trait.’ (like when you pop into Earthlord’s Gap in Kessex Hills for Goff’s loot, that gives you trait 2.1 (line 2, trait 1)) I really do like that.

scerevisiae.1972:

The tedium that has been introduced by reducing trait point acquisition is so much worse than the previous system – i struggle to find any enthusiasm for grinding out 5 levels just to see any improvement – i hate it.

all of my +1 to this

i was considering going so far as to purchase an additional character slot recently, but then they dropped the NOFUN4YOU hammer

way to hose yourself, anet

zenleto.6179:

nexxe.7081:

Sturmruger.3920:

No its not. I have a new character thats level 33 now. Only played it for about 3 evenings and used no tomes or boosters. If leveling were any easier it would be pathetic.

He’s not talking about leveling. He’s talking about acquiring traits. It’s amazing how many people don’t understand this.

Then he should change the title.

The title is appropriate. He isn’t talking about leveling being hard, he’s talking about it being tedious.

Einlanzer.1627:

zenleto.6179:

nexxe.7081:

Sturmruger.3920:

No its not. I have a new character thats level 33 now. Only played it for about 3 evenings and used no tomes or boosters. If leveling were any easier it would be pathetic.

He’s not talking about leveling. He’s talking about acquiring traits. It’s amazing how many people don’t understand this.

Then he should change the title.

The title is appropriate. He isn’t talking about leveling being hard, he’s talking about it being tedious.

I’m not talking about it being hard either.

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

Mesket.5728:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

Sounds like he should hop in HoTM and take a look at his traits then….they are all unlocked in PvP. He can test builds and everything….

Draknar.5748:

Mesket.5728:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

Sounds like he should hop in HoTM and take a look at his traits then….they are all unlocked in PvP. He can test builds and everything….

This is fine for you, or me… not for the new player who has no clue what hotm, the myst or any of this is. Most new players (and I learnt this by hard after explaining it to at least 6 friends) have absolutely no idea why their character is different in pvp and find it odd at first (they love it later).

That is not an option for everyone. Locked traits till 80 is IMHO not a good move.

scerevisiae.1972:

The tedium that has been introduced by reducing trait point acquisition is so much worse than the previous system – i struggle to find any enthusiasm for grinding out 5 levels just to see any improvement – i hate it.

I’ve leveled 2 characters from 20 to 80 using birthday gift, & Tomes during the Escape from LA. Now I’m leveling my last with Birthday Gift/Tomes via the festival. After 10 years of mmo’s I’m tired of leveling.

Draknar.5748:

Mesket.5728:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

Sounds like he should hop in HoTM and take a look at his traits then….they are all unlocked in PvP. He can test builds and everything….

Like PvP is a good place to test PvE builds
If you get destroyed the trait is good ? Is that your idea ?

Dusty Moon.4382:

This design is based off of GW1, where you actually capture elites. In essence this is what you are doing for your character. Think of the Traits as Elites you need to capture – not much difference.

Doing with a new character and all the complaints I have read in this thread, it is not as bad or even the same as you are talking about. It is still pretty easy-peasy.

This is nothing like GW1! In GW1, you had to hunt skills, but they were optional. In GW2, traits are part of the core classes, and they are not optional. They are needed, for build diversification and experimentation. Good luck to the newbies in dungeons without traits.

Mesket.5728:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

I think I’ve now found what is setting me at odds with a few people in this thread (besides the other silliness). I don’t believe my characters finish evolving once they hit 80. I’m always changing things or discovering new ways for them to be effective, or just plain fun. Plus, I think slot skills are more important for active situations and Anet hasn’t fooled with those.

As for new players: a proactive one will most likely try and find out what the traits are; a less proactive one may be just happy to go as they are until they unlock. Or come onto the forums and kitten. All valid lifestyle choices.

Besides, blaming the new trait system on the tedium of leveling is just a new excuse. A lot of people found it tedious before.

Redg.9807:

Draknar.5748:

Mesket.5728:

zenleto.6179:

I’m not convinced. How many traits are available to a new player through normal gameplay? And what would a new player consider normal? We’re talking new player, not us rolling a new alt.

With the previous // With the current system a new player could:

Start reading/learning about his own traits at lvl 11
Now he has to wait until 30.

He could try out builds and learn the advantages of his grandmaster talents from lvl 60
Now he has to wait until 80.

The way this community works, it is unlikely for a new player to hit explorable dungeons before lvl 80. Now it is even more unlikely since we will start seeing players lvl 80 who will have absolutely no clue about his own traits because not only he didn’t had the chance to equip them but now he doesn’t even have them!

Sounds like he should hop in HoTM and take a look at his traits then….they are all unlocked in PvP. He can test builds and everything….

Like PvP is a good place to test PvE builds
If you get destroyed the trait is good ? Is that your idea ?

You’re thinking of builds differently than I am in this context. When I say test builds I mean they can go into HoTM play around with their traits, read up on them, maybe they are interested in different weapons, maybe certain traits favor certain weapons and they want to study them and come up with builds based on their weapon of choice. That’s what I meant by trying builds. In practice PvP and PvE are very different, that’s a given.

I doubt brand new players think too much on nailing down their meta builds until 80 when they can start collecting the necessary gear for it. Most are focused on hitting 80 first, the rest comes after.

I foresee a new LFG filtering; if yer char is from after 15 April 2014, u WILL be kicked !!!

dagrdagaz.4913:

I foresee a new LFG filtering; if yer char is from after 15 April 2014, u WILL be kicked !!!

I hate how much sense that actually makes.

dagrdagaz.4913:

I foresee a new LFG filtering; if yer char is from after 15 April 2014, u WILL be kicked !!!

They will also need to pass a credit check, have 2 forms of id, and proof of either TS or Ventrillo. LOL

I think it is funny how many " This new Trait system sucks" threads there have been and not one Dev response.

Do they even still play their own game to realise that at lvl 30-50ish you can no longer ( unless you have a ton of Gold and skill points that we will need later) get most of the traits you need as they set the unlocks for many of them at lvl 50+ areas ?

How are new people like me, supposed to learn our profs without having the flexibility to try out the traits that are there ?? Why limit unlocking them to higher levels when PUG’s etc will need them, unless of course they only want lvl 80’s doing the lower lvl dungeons ?

Taygus.4571:

zenleto.6179:

Mesket.5728:

…and new players will take more time to learn the game…

How is this bad? Levelling is so fast in this game that you can easily get to 80 and not have a clue.

The problem is that, with this trait system.. you’re going to get to lv80 and know even less about your class!

This. Would have made much more sense to get trait points earlier and to then space out getting individual traits.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

scerevisiae.1972:

The tedium that has been introduced by reducing trait point acquisition is so much worse than the previous system – i struggle to find any enthusiasm for grinding out 5 levels just to see any improvement – i hate it.

I’ve leveled 2 characters from 20 to 80 using birthday gift, & Tomes during the Escape from LA. Now I’m leveling my last with Birthday Gift/Tomes via the festival. After 10 years of mmo’s I’m tired of leveling.

This is how I feel, I’m an altaholic and like trying out all classes and races. This makes it more tedious and boring. There should be better options for veteran players. The game really doesnt start until 80.

Lol when I read the title of this thread I literally threw my hands up and said “I KNOW RIGHT??”

I currently have 14 characters, all at 80 fully geared except for the last one, who is currently 29. What really ticks me off is the fact that the birthday scrolls LEVEL you up to 20 instead of GIVING you 20 levels. Honestly, I really wish Anet would just change them to give 20 levels. If they changed the birthday scrolls to GIVE 20 levels, I’ll happily buy more toons.

And you’re probably wondering, “but you only get 1 birthday scroll, why would you get more toons?” Well, you get the scrolls per character. I currently have 8 of those scroll sitting in my bank. 8 scrolls, each level you up to 20, if Anet changed it to give 20 levels, that’s literally 160 levels.

I agree the traits starting at lvl 30, and one point being worth 5 previous ones but attaintable only every 5 levels was a bad call from a-net. I don’t mind the challenges to unlock traits, but that late start and “jump growth” is annoying and needless.

One of the major issues with this implementation (that many have already implied) is that a player can’t begin mastering his or her profession until well after he or she reaches 80. I may love a particular build as I’m leveling, but since I don’t get Grandmaster traits until 80, and then frequently have to unlock the particular traits from 80 content, I may spend a lot of time at 80 unlocking traits that go with my leveling build only to find out I don’t like them in practice or, worse, that my build is completely ineffective, at which point I basically have to start over with learning my traits, to say nothing of the time I spend actually learning how a full build performs with proper equipment.

This is in large part a result of the difficulty gap among leveling content, Orr meta events, and explorable dungeons (that is, I’m not likely to know how to play my profession in progressively more difficult content when I hit 80 anyway). The real problem is that many players won’t even realize that there’s a problem. Because they haven’t been pressured to learn, they might not even be able to appreciate that Trait X could turn their experience from a living hell into loads of fun (two or three Mesmer traits come to mind). In essence, this system introduces another knowledge tax on new players. Mind you, the old system wasn’t stellar either (since it penalized bad decisions on traits with the reset cost and thus discouraged experimentation), but we’re not seeing actual improvement on this front.

That said, I feel like there are some good qualities to the change. I have a friend who has just started playing a few weeks ago. At the time of writing he’s a level 36 Mesmer. He and I have spent a lot (relatively speaking) of time talking Traits, and he has a very different perspective than I do by virtue of having never been exposed to the old system. He actually has things to look forward to as he levels past 30 that aren’t just level gates. For example, to get Deceptive Evasion he has to hit 62 and complete a story step. So he’s looking forward to 62 because I’ve hyped up that that trait is a game changer for a certain play style that I particularly enjoy. It also incentivizes him to go through the personal story steps, whereas when I was leveling my Mesmer all I had to do was hit 40 and pony up some cash.

The 22-level gap notwithstanding, the new system isn’t qualitatively worse on that front. In fact it’s probably better (again, gap notwithstanding). Of course, that gap is everything, because having GM traits at 60 as opposed to 80 means 20 levels of experimentation, and I think that needs to be restored.

For example, gain one trait point at 30, then another starting at 33 and again every three levels until 51, then 2 points each at 54, 57, and 60. Unlock Master traits at 40 and GM traits at 50. There’s your 14 points, and you’ve got character progression and growth until 60.

What about 60 to 80? Well, you’ve already got the actual trait unlocking, although some of those absolutely need to be fixed and moved to lower level content, but frankly I wouldn’t be opposed to introducing other growth paths and metrics for high level characters. Spreading out the trait acquisition doesn’t actually fix the dearth of meaningful character development choices. It just spreads those choices more thinly.

I’m a little short on ideas that could be implemented for the last 20 levels, but I think something tied to the old GW1 Ascension process might be worth looking at—maybe something having to do with role specialization (some kind of control, support, or damage focus that isn’t stat based [so as to avoid the Berserker problem])? That’s beside the point, though.

The point is that the current trait implementation, apart from making the first 80 levels of leveling a bit of a slog, runs contrary to one of the fundamental principles behind the game’s design, namely, that the leveling game is the game. Instead, now we have a game that, by virtue of the top-heavy nature of traits, effectively doesn’t begin until 80. And that’s no good.

Taygus.4571:

zenleto.6179:

Mesket.5728:

…and new players will take more time to learn the game…

How is this bad? Levelling is so fast in this game that you can easily get to 80 and not have a clue.

The problem is that, with this trait system.. you’re going to get to lv80 and know even less about your class!

No – the problem was – before you could level your character to 80 and not understand how the trait system works. It was a crap shoot and people got stuck with using builds off of the interweb without understanding the synergies between traits. Now you can initially pick and choose what you want to use and unlock the rest at your leisure.

As has been said before, none of this really matters. Players don’t (and shouldn’t) start to focus on their builds until they can get the gear for it. Everything up until 80 was and always will be temporary. Most players don’t even run dungeons until they hit 80, partly because of the caustic PUG system (i.e. if you aren’t 80 GTFO) and also because it requires 5 people and most players are simply focused on hitting level cap.

Once you can start investing in Exotic gear (and optionally Ascended) is when you sit down and think about your build. Study the traits, plan out your gear stats, trinket stats, experiment, etc. It is a very small % of people that were doing that before 80.

And what good is that anyway, you hit 60 and are wearing completely temporary gear most likely consisting of whatever is cheapest for your level because gear stats mean nothing pre-80 the leveling is so easy in this game; who cares what your traits are, nothing requires fine-tuning at that level.

Players always have the option of looking at new builds in HoTM. You may not be able to try them in PvE, but you can look at all of the trait lines and plan on paper, which is what most people do anyway.

I mean honestly, how many times has anyone re-done their traits pre-80. Maybe if you messed up by clicking the wrong trait line by mistake, but pre-80 players re-doing their traits because they wanted to fine-tune? I would venture to guess less than 3% of people. Mostly because it is a complete waste of time.

The new system is only a problem for that minority of people, and even then, I have a feeling in that in reality those people are completely unaffected as well and just want to gripe about it being a bad idea in theory.

As someone with 7 80s, 2 of which I leveled after the 4/15 update, and 1 level 30 I’m currently leveling, I’ve noticed little to no change. I explore, do events, do the dailies, the LS for xp, level up to 80 then plan my build. The fact my most recent level 80 character is still wearing level 35 gear with random stats proves none of this matters until you plan on being a productive level 80 character, heck I’m pretty sure she has trait points I never spent because it makes little difference when leveling up.

Traits that grant movement speed are the only useful traits leveling up. All else is only useful in dungeons, PvP, and WvW.

I think one thing this entire “discussion” has missed is EXACTLY how many traits do you use on a regular basis on your “main” level 80 characters? From my experience, there are at LEAST 5 Traits in each line you have NEVER equipped for more than 10 minutes. I’d be willing to bet that most players NEVER change their Traits or change 2-3 Traits at MOST in a single session. I roughly estimate that out of the 65 possible Traits available, we only use 20-25 of them…..that’s less than 40%. Yes, I get that not having the Traits available for use could stifle some “creativity” and “testing” of Traits, but seriously, NONE of the challenges are overly difficult until you get to the LVL 80 unlocked ones. Also, the monitary and skill point costs are NOT unreasonable if you DO run across a single Trait you want but don’t want to “capture”.

My point is, no new player is going to NEED all those Traits to play the game….and it would give them something to “collect” after 80 to “complete the set”. I get that disliking something “different” is the norm, but until you actually try a new character to 80 with the new system, all this speculation of how “horrible” it is is just that…..speculation.

For myself, I plan to do just this in the near future (start a new character so I can put the new system thru it’s paces). Without giving the system a REAL chance, you are being pre-judgmental just because it’s “different” (and I GET that people rarely like “different”).

Dusty Moon.4382:

Taygus.4571:

zenleto.6179:

Mesket.5728:

…and new players will take more time to learn the game…

How is this bad? Levelling is so fast in this game that you can easily get to 80 and not have a clue.

The problem is that, with this trait system.. you’re going to get to lv80 and know even less about your class!

No – the problem was – before you could level your character to 80 and not understand how the trait system works. It was a crap shoot and people got stuck with using builds off of the interweb without understanding the synergies between traits. Now you can initially pick and choose what you want to use and unlock the rest at your leisure.

I’m not against the hunting of traits.

I just think it should be possible to actually experiment with these before 80. So that you can understand your class better when you hit level cap.

As it is, they’re still going to look up builds and go “guess I should hunt for those”… but to hit 80 and not have any way of knowing/using traits that are often crucial to a build.
People should know about their traits and be able to hunt./use ALL of them before they hit 80.

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on traits one needs for a build. It is not hard.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on them. It is not hard.

This belongs in the Trait thread, but I guess I’ll dump it here. Character progression should never depend on other people’s cooperation or ‘random’ time spawns.

Example #1:
I come home late from work and have an hour to play. I ask for help to defeat Grenth and instead people refuse to help – because the failure event gives more loot. The next day I log in, by the time the event chain would finish I have to leave.

Example #2:
I have a good 2hrs to play. I need Melandru’s and guess what – it’s bugged for god knows how long and NOBODY can cap it. GG.

It takes maybe 5mins to kill the Priests? But players like me have waited DAYS hoping both players available+time of actual spawn fall within their window of gameplay.

This system fails not because we’re not ‘concentrating’ on unlocks, but because factors out of our control are preventing us doing it when we have the time to

Scientia.8924:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on them. It is not hard.

This belongs in the Trait thread, but I guess I’ll dump it here. Character progression should never depend on other people’s cooperation or ‘random’ time spawns.

Example #1:
I come home late from work and have an hour to play. I ask for help to defeat Grenth and instead people refuse to help – because the failure event gives more loot. The next day I log in, by the time the event chain would finish I have to leave.

Example #2:
I have a good 2hrs to play. I need Melandru’s and guess what – it’s bugged for god knows how long and NOBODY can cap it. GG.

It takes maybe 5mins to kill the Priests? But players like me have waited DAYS hoping both players available+time of actual spawn fall within their window of gameplay.

This system fails not because we’re not ‘concentrating’ on unlocks, but because factors out of our control are preventing us doing it when we have the time to

Wouldn’t that 1hr be better spent running 1 or 2 dungeon paths and then just unlocking the trait with gold? Or killing 3-4 world bosses and selling the Rares on the TP for 35s/ea. Or playing EoTM and selling your loot. Or crafting one bolt of damask and selling it. Or doing an Iron Ore/Platinum Ore node run and selling them.

There are plenty of other things you can do to gather the money in 1hr to unlock those traits. You don’t have to wait days to unlock anything. Ever.

My problem with the trait system is that I get to level 80 and haven’t been able to play around with all of the traits for 20 levels. I thought the system was perfectly fine before, though I do like being able to refund trait points on the fly.

Draknar.5748:

Scientia.8924:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on them. It is not hard.

This belongs in the Trait thread, but I guess I’ll dump it here. Character progression should never depend on other people’s cooperation or ‘random’ time spawns.

Example #1:
I come home late from work and have an hour to play. I ask for help to defeat Grenth and instead people refuse to help – because the failure event gives more loot. The next day I log in, by the time the event chain would finish I have to leave.

Example #2:
I have a good 2hrs to play. I need Melandru’s and guess what – it’s bugged for god knows how long and NOBODY can cap it. GG.

It takes maybe 5mins to kill the Priests? But players like me have waited DAYS hoping both players available+time of actual spawn fall within their window of gameplay.

This system fails not because we’re not ‘concentrating’ on unlocks, but because factors out of our control are preventing us doing it when we have the time to

Wouldn’t that 1hr be better spent running 1 or 2 dungeon paths and then just unlocking the trait with gold? Or killing 3-4 world bosses and selling the Rares on the TP for 35s/ea. Or playing EoTM and selling your loot. Or crafting one bolt of damask and selling it. Or doing an Iron Ore/Platinum Ore node run and selling them.

There are plenty of other things you can do to gather the money in 1hr to unlock those traits. You don’t have to wait days to unlock anything. Ever.

Being able to complete 1-2 dungeon paths in an hour means forming a party on the spot ASAP – so most likely with pubs. I can’t even count the number of times pubs ended in epic failure.

I agree that dungeon gold yields can be good, but the gameplay itself I don’t like, which for speedruns often amount of mesmers running TP gimmicks. Besides the fact that it’s not entertaining to me, the SP rewards aren’t enough (see below)

As for your last 2 sentences – each GM trait costs 3gold and 20SP. On average I can play 1 hour a day. Even unlocking via EOTM, there is no way in helI I can farm 3gold and 20SP in 1hr aka 1day. Even 4 world bosses won’t come close to 20SP points within the hour.

Asmodeus.5782:

However, all your other characters seem to earn a millyun Tomes of Knowledge each hour now.

How do you get tomes of knowledge? im just been doing map completion lately so i dont know. Is it just from bosses or what?

Aleglast.6027:

Asmodeus.5782:

However, all your other characters seem to earn a millyun Tomes of Knowledge each hour now.

How do you get tomes of knowledge? im just been doing map completion lately so i dont know. Is it just from bosses or what?

You can do PvP (which is the exactly opposite of what Anet was trying to achieve with the trait unlock system – drawing players to unpopulated PvE events/bosses), or I’ve heard Gold Boss Blitz, can’t confirm since I haven’t done, but that’s not permanent anyway

edit: You know a system is broken when multiple players are telling you how to complete it in ways that go against the purpose of change that developers hoped it’d accomplish

Seras.5702:

Not only that, but I have to participate in my personal story (even if it is my 7th alt) to unlock traits from Claw Island, Forging the Pact, Source of Orr, etc. Not to mention that when I choose which lesser race to help in my personal story, oops! now you’re locked out of 2 traits. Your story doesn’t have the option to help the ogres? Can’t unlock that trait…gotta pay for it.

Wait, WHAT? o_O

It’s pitchfork and torches time.

Scientia.8924:

Draknar.5748:

Scientia.8924:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on them. It is not hard.

This belongs in the Trait thread, but I guess I’ll dump it here. Character progression should never depend on other people’s cooperation or ‘random’ time spawns.

Example #1:
I come home late from work and have an hour to play. I ask for help to defeat Grenth and instead people refuse to help – because the failure event gives more loot. The next day I log in, by the time the event chain would finish I have to leave.

Example #2:
I have a good 2hrs to play. I need Melandru’s and guess what – it’s bugged for god knows how long and NOBODY can cap it. GG.

It takes maybe 5mins to kill the Priests? But players like me have waited DAYS hoping both players available+time of actual spawn fall within their window of gameplay.

This system fails not because we’re not ‘concentrating’ on unlocks, but because factors out of our control are preventing us doing it when we have the time to

Wouldn’t that 1hr be better spent running 1 or 2 dungeon paths and then just unlocking the trait with gold? Or killing 3-4 world bosses and selling the Rares on the TP for 35s/ea. Or playing EoTM and selling your loot. Or crafting one bolt of damask and selling it. Or doing an Iron Ore/Platinum Ore node run and selling them.

There are plenty of other things you can do to gather the money in 1hr to unlock those traits. You don’t have to wait days to unlock anything. Ever.

Being able to complete 1-2 dungeon paths in an hour means forming a party on the spot ASAP – so most likely with pubs. I can’t even count the number of times pubs ended in epic failure.

I agree that dungeon gold yields can be good, but the gameplay itself I don’t like, which for speedruns often amount of mesmers running TP gimmicks. Besides the fact that it’s not entertaining to me, the SP rewards aren’t enough (see below)

As for your last 2 sentences – each GM trait costs 3gold and 20SP. On average I can play 1 hour a day. Even unlocking via EOTM, there is no way in helI I can farm 3gold and 20SP in 1hr aka 1day. Even 4 world bosses won’t come close to 20SP points within the hour.

The skill point requirement I’ll give you, that is your real constraint, and honestly I forgot that was a requirement. But 3g/hr is relatively easy to do (~9 rares will net you that, not including any other sources of income). Or literally 2 dungeon runs. You must have been having some bad PUG luck because the last PUGs I ran flew through them. Even if you just do 1 dungeon path for 1.5g and then get the other 1.5g from a few world bosses.

The SPs, that I can’t really speak on. I seem to get a lot of scrolls that give SPs. I don’t know exactly where I get them, I’m thinking WvW rank chests?

This new trait system is kinda funny. It’s better for actual new players since they don’t get bombarded with all the trait points instantly, and it encourages them to experiment more per bracket. But its worse for any player before this change happened, since we already know which traits we want.

I don’t really mind earning the traits, but some of the requirements to do so are weird. (Ogres? But I didn’t have a Norn or Charr…) It might be better if they made more sense, but I did prefer the old way. If we must earn them, make it appropriate for the level (you should be able to access all traits from 1-6 by level 30, & with whatever story you choose) Are unlocks account wide? I’m assuming not…

Fortunately for me, I leveled the ones I really wanted before all this, but I’ve been fiddling away on some lower ones. It’s definitely a deterrent to new alts, for sure.

It also makes for less interesting game play on the way up, & being upleveled is more painful now. (meaning, I just don’t do it, in say, the festival) I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to do with this revamp. I’m grateful that it didn’t go the way of WoW’s horrible skill tree vanish, & I don’t want it simplified (even lotro took a weird step there) but I do feel like the old system was better as far as getting them earlier.

penatbater.4710:

This new trait system is kinda funny. It’s better for actual new players since they don’t get bombarded with all the trait points instantly, and it encourages them to experiment more per bracket. But its worse for any player before this change happened, since we already know which traits we want.

Um, WHAT ?

how does it encourage new players ( like me) when half of the kitten traits I should want to experiment with, at 30ish, are locked behind lvl 50+ content or Dungeons that I cannot realistically do until 80 due to PUG behavior that keeps most <80’s out of them ?

Or PS parts I cannot do due to having to choose 1 of 3 races to help that locks me outta the other 2 ?

Sunshine.4680:

Illogical.6218:

yeh because owning a level 80 alt without knowing how to play it is really useful

Well it’s a good thing that when you reach 80 it’s not game over. Really doesn’t help that while leveling up you only learn a few tricks of your class because open world pve is easy and yet there are only a few lower level dungeons in which most of the time lower levels get kicked, unless with friends.

Oh thank you for that. I was going to start actually playing this game instead of the others I’ve been playing until I read that new players get kicked for trying to learn, use and enjoy parts of the game for being new.

You’ve helped me from wasting time and any more money on this game. Thank you!

Draknar.5748:

Scientia.8924:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Scientia.8924:

Leveling – that is finding sources to gain XP – is extremely easy

The problem is with the trait system, characters are ‘weaker’ than before because they don’t have traits to compliment their builds

No – then you can unlock by concentrating on them. It is not hard.

This belongs in the Trait thread, but I guess I’ll dump it here. Character progression should never depend on other people’s cooperation or ‘random’ time spawns.

Example #1:
I come home late from work and have an hour to play. I ask for help to defeat Grenth and instead people refuse to help – because the failure event gives more loot. The next day I log in, by the time the event chain would finish I have to leave.

Example #2:
I have a good 2hrs to play. I need Melandru’s and guess what – it’s bugged for god knows how long and NOBODY can cap it. GG.

It takes maybe 5mins to kill the Priests? But players like me have waited DAYS hoping both players available+time of actual spawn fall within their window of gameplay.

This system fails not because we’re not ‘concentrating’ on unlocks, but because factors out of our control are preventing us doing it when we have the time to

Wouldn’t that 1hr be better spent running 1 or 2 dungeon paths and then just unlocking the trait with gold? Or killing 3-4 world bosses and selling the Rares on the TP for 35s/ea. Or playing EoTM and selling your loot. Or crafting one bolt of damask and selling it. Or doing an Iron Ore/Platinum Ore node run and selling them.

There are plenty of other things you can do to gather the money in 1hr to unlock those traits. You don’t have to wait days to unlock anything. Ever.

That exactly is the problem .. the new system is no fun at all but just another gold sink where you can better farm something else and then buy the traits for much more than we have paid before.