Guild Wars 2

Then why did you say this then?

Sokia.3710:

If by “dancing chest” you mean “a huge text window that covers your entire screen” then, yes, the new level-up pop-up is a dancing chest.

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Because I genuinely forgot that the window doesn’t automatically pop up. I really haven’t been playing the game over the last several days, except for to log on occasionally and help other people.

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Because I genuinely forgot that the window doesn’t automatically pop up. I really haven’t been playing the game over the last several days, except for to log on occasionally and help other people.

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Because I genuinely forgot that the window doesn’t automatically pop up. I really haven’t been playing the game over the last several days, except for to log on occasionally and help other people.

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

I think it matters less if they tried it at all, and more that there’s a bandwagon of hate in the first place.

Vayne.8563:

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

It’s only since 9/9/2014 that I don’t play the game much. I played a fair amount before that date.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

It’s only since 9/9/2014 that I don’t play the game much. I played a fair amount before that date.

I played very little before that date after I logged in just to grab Dragon’s Reach Pt2 . I came back to collect spoons.

That way I can be the Spoony One.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

For someone that doesn’t play the game much, you’re sure disparaging about it. I think there are probably a lot of people who gave only the most cursory test to the new systems, before jumping on the I hate them bandwagon.

It’s only since 9/9/2014 that I don’t play the game much. I played a fair amount before that date.

That’s right. That’s the patch you’re commenting on though. You must have tested it very thoroughly.

Vayne.8563:

That’s the patch you’re commenting on though. You must have tested it very thoroughly.

I tested it enough to know that it was a bug-laden mess that was poorly designed without proper testing before it was released to the live servers. I didn’t feel much desire to test it beyond that. I don’t get paid to test every change made in a patch. I play computer games to have fun, which is something I was no longer having.

So, you’ll have to forgive me if I forget a couple of details.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

That’s the patch you’re commenting on though. You must have tested it very thoroughly.

I tested it enough to know that it was a bug-laden mess that was poorly designed without proper testing before it was released to the live servers. I didn’t feel much desire to test it beyond that. I don’t get paid to test every change made in a patch. I play computer games to have fun, which is something I was no longer having.

Yep but you’re making statements in a number of threads, at least one of of which is inaccurate, because you forgot. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt (which you never gave me) and assume you’re not being disingenuous. I believe you really did forget.

But you know, if you can forget something so big and obvious, and you haven’t really played the new content because you’re not paid to test it, I guess I’ll have to take your comments with a grain of salt from this point out, because you’re commenting an awful lot on something you’re not testing.

And it’s not just you. I don’t want to single you out. There’s been quite a bit of misinformation being spread in a number of threads, by people who have supposedly tested the patch.

And yeah, there are bugs. It was a major patch and it is far more bugged than it should be.

Which means, to me, that until the bugs are fixed, it’s hard to fairly judge what Anet is attempting to do. By all means complain about it being bugged. But we won’t actually know the finally result till at least monday.

I unfortunately am going to have to agree there were significant bugs (either in number or scope) which kinda tarnished things I was prepared to like. Such as collections seemingly impossible to unlock or discover, which I could be half done with now if they just would unlock.

Then there’s the reported numerous performance changes and crash issues . . . and the progress-blocking trouble in certain dungeons.

“Bug-laden mess” is pushing it, but no denial can be made. There were too many significant bugs on patch day, which is . . . unfortunately, par for the course again with MMOs (not just GW2).

Vayne.8563:

Yep but you’re making statements in a number of threads, at least one of of which is inaccurate, because you forgot.

So, I don’t have a perfect memory. Sue me.

If you like, I can go back and edit the post to correct it, assuming there is no time-gating for editing posts on the forums.

But you know, if you can forget something so big and obvious, and you haven’t really played the new content because you’re not paid to test it, I guess I’ll have to take your comments with a grain of salt from this point out, because you’re commenting an awful lot on something you’re not testing.

Considering how many people on the forums are blatantly defending or attacking the new patch, you should have been taking just about everyone’s comments with a grain of salt, and a whole package of salt in a few cases.

I tend to be skeptical of claims made in forums, anyway, particularly when people claim to site numbers and statistics.

But, since you seem to have a decent memory and you play the game so much more than I do, I trust that you can correct any inaccurate statements that I make. So, at least I have that going for me.

And it’s not just you. I don’t want to single you out. There’s been quite a bit of misinformation being spread in a number of threads, by people who have supposedly tested the patch.

I haven’t seen that much misinformation being spread, other than perhaps the various rumors and theories for Arenanet’s motivations for making the changes.

I think a lot the misinformation had to do with the fact that some of the new features are very confusing, for example the new level-up screens making it appear that you’ve unlocked features when it is really just informing you of features. This is the main reason that on 9/9 I was having difficulty telling what was actually locked and what was just people trolling in map-chat. People were saying that Diving Goggles were locked, or that salvaging was locked, or that jumping puzzles were locked. I had no way to test any of this in-game as my character was already level 10 at the time, and I didn’t want to have to delete any characters just to free up a character slot to make a level 1 so I could see what Arenanet level-gated and what they didn’t.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

Yep but you’re making statements in a number of threads, at least one of of which is inaccurate, because you forgot.

So, I don’t have a perfect memory. Sue me.

If you like, I can go back and edit the post to correct it, assuming there is no time-gating for editing posts on the forums.

But you know, if you can forget something so big and obvious, and you haven’t really played the new content because you’re not paid to test it, I guess I’ll have to take your comments with a grain of salt from this point out, because you’re commenting an awful lot on something you’re not testing.

Considering how many people on the forums are blatantly defending or attacking the new patch, you should have been taking just about everyone’s comments with a grain of salt, and a whole package of salt in a few cases.

I tend to be skeptical of claims made in forums, anyway, particularly when people claim to site numbers and statistics.

But, since you seem to have a decent memory and you play the game so much more than I do, I trust that you can correct any inaccurate statements that I make. So, at least I have that going for me.

And it’s not just you. I don’t want to single you out. There’s been quite a bit of misinformation being spread in a number of threads, by people who have supposedly tested the patch.

I haven’t seen that much misinformation being spread, other than perhaps the various rumors and theories for Arenanet’s motivations for making the changes.

I think a lot the misinformation had to do with the fact that some of the new features are very confusing, for example the new level-up screens making it appear that you’ve unlocked features when it is really just informing you of features. This is the main reason that on 9/9 I was having difficulty telling what was actually locked and what was just people trolling in map-chat. People were saying that Diving Goggles were locked, or that salvaging was locked, or that jumping puzzles were locked. I had no way to test any of this in-game as my character was already level 10 at the time, and I didn’t want to have to delete any characters just to free up a character slot to make a level 1 so I could see what Arenanet level-gated and what they didn’t.

Even it it’s spread by being confusing, it’s still misinformation being spread.

It’s the difference between me asking my wife, is this dish supposed to look like this, and me saying, this dish sucks, it’s terrible, it’s horrible, I’m never eating your cooking again.

People make assumptions, post them as facts and that is, in fact, misinformation. Everyone gets stuff wrong. I’ve gotten stuff wrong. Everyone makes a mistake every day.

But when you base your communication and your actions on those mistakes, you need to be held accountable for them. I mean we hold Anet accountable for every communication gaff they’ve made (and there have been many).

Vayne.8563:

It’s the difference between me asking my wife, is this dish supposed to look like this, and me saying, this dish sucks, it’s terrible, it’s horrible, I’m never eating your cooking again.

LOL.

Not sure that the analogy holds up…can Anet make you sleep on the couch ?

Vayne.8563:

I mean we hold Anet accountable for every communication gaff they’ve made (and there have been many).

I am not going to pull out the old, “customer is always right,” adage because it has never actually been true.

But.

The merchant taking customers’ money for a service should be held to a different standard than a random customer.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

It’s the difference between me asking my wife, is this dish supposed to look like this, and me saying, this dish sucks, it’s terrible, it’s horrible, I’m never eating your cooking again.

LOL.

Not sure that the analogy holds up…can Anet make you sleep on the couch ?

Vayne.8563:

I mean we hold Anet accountable for every communication gaff they’ve made (and there have been many).

I am not going to pull out the old, “customer is always right,” adage because it has never actually been true.

But.

The merchant taking customers’ money for a service should be held to a different standard than a random customer.

I’ve been in business and this is almost never true.

Let’s say I repair a computer (because I used to run a store that did that). We repair your computer. You pay for that repair. It doesn’t give you the right to tell me that I can’t change how I repair computers after that fact. I doesn’t give you the right to tell me not to put less energy in my mac section and more energy in my PC section. It doesn’t even give you the right to tell me what to stock in the store.

I make business decisions on the needs of the person. Your entry price into Tyria entitles you to access to the servers and a game. Not an unchanging game either, because games change all the time.

You paid for the game you got your money’s worth or you didn’t….and within the allotted time, if you didn’t like it, Anet gave refunds. They have a far more generous return policy than any game I’ve come across.

Paying customers as in buying gems are entitled to the gems they buy and the stuff they buy with them. If they’re not happy, logically they should stop buying gems.

It doesn’t give them a lick of right to order companies to change or not change things. Or to insult representatives of the company. Or to give ultimatums.

Naturally smart companies will want customers to give feedback, but most companies won’t tolerate abuse. I never did when I ran my shop and any abusive customer was asked to leave.

Ashen.2907:

I am not going to pull out the old, “customer is always right,” adage because it has never actually been true.

It’s often misquoted too. Have a look

But.

The merchant taking customers’ money for a service should be held to a different standard than a random customer.

I’m not sure if I read that right, the merchant should be held to a different standard than a random customer, which makes no sense . . . or the customer who paid for the service should be treated differently than a random customer, which they would be anyway? . . .

I mean, I agree there has to be a standard of service, but I’m also wary of insisting on it be high when we are talking about “any/every customer” . . . including the abusive, dishonest, or disruptive. Blanket mission statements of service often have to come with thick books to discern when it is okay to retract the oath of service quality.

(I should know, I was a waiter more than once, and worked customer service a couple times. There does have to be a point where you just divorce a “customer” from your services because they’re abusing the privileges you grant them.)

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

Ashen.2907:

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

While this is absolutely true, it’s sometimes also true that the way a customer communicates with a merchant can cause problems for the customer.

Someone brings a computer for me to repair. If they don’t tell me what the problem is (and it happened more than you know), then I can’t really fix it easily or on time. If they give me the wrong problem and I correct that and it’s really another problem they may get angry at me for doing it, even though it was their communication that causes the issue.

And if a customer was abusive, I had every right to ask them to leave my store and not come back. And sometimes I did.

However, there’s a difference between law and not being a kitten. You can insult people. As far as I know that breaks no law. I’m not sure why that should matter.

It at very least breaks forum rules.

Ashen.2907:

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

And then you get times when, like we see now, the merchant is unable to address concerns due to those rules (external or internal) . . . and communication is believed uncertain or untrustworthy.

It’s a thorny problem, and makes me glad customer service is not my job anymore. Well, beyond “where can I find the toilet paper?” “aisle four”.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

While this is absolutely true, it’s sometimes also true that the way a customer communicates with a merchant can cause problems for the customer.

Someone brings a computer for me to repair. If they don’t tell me what the problem is (and it happened more than you know), then I can’t really fix it easily or on time. If they give me the wrong problem and I correct that and it’s really another problem they may get angry at me for doing it, even though it was their communication that causes the issue.

And if a customer was abusive, I had every right to ask them to leave my store and not come back. And sometimes I did.

However, there’s a difference between law and not being a kitten. You can insult people. As far as I know that breaks no law. I’m not sure why that should matter.

It at very least breaks forum rules.

Even so, I was posting in response to comments about misinformation being spread by merchant and customer. If a customer tells everyone on his e-mail list that computer repairs at the shop he frequents cost only $20, and is mistaken because the actual price is $50, he made a mistake. He may upset his friends who go into the shop expecting to get a $20 computer repair only to face a more than double price tag. Thats pretty much it.

If the shop owner tells everyone that computer repairs at his shop are only $20, when in fact he charges $50 he is engaged in an activity that, if caught, will end with him paying some pretty serious fines. If he continues he can have be denied the right to operate a business in his state. This is the case even if the entire matter was a mistake.

The merchant, when speaking of misinformation, is held to a different standard than the customer.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

What I meant by the merchant being held to a different standard than the customer was specifically about communication.

This is almost (and I am saying almost only because for all I know there is some weird exception that is all but unheard of) always the case because there are far more legal requirements placed on a merchant’s communications to the customer than on the customer’s communication to the merchant.

While this is absolutely true, it’s sometimes also true that the way a customer communicates with a merchant can cause problems for the customer.

Someone brings a computer for me to repair. If they don’t tell me what the problem is (and it happened more than you know), then I can’t really fix it easily or on time. If they give me the wrong problem and I correct that and it’s really another problem they may get angry at me for doing it, even though it was their communication that causes the issue.

And if a customer was abusive, I had every right to ask them to leave my store and not come back. And sometimes I did.

However, there’s a difference between law and not being a kitten. You can insult people. As far as I know that breaks no law. I’m not sure why that should matter.

It at very least breaks forum rules.

Even so, I was posting in response to comments about misinformation being spread by merchant and customer. If a customer tells everyone on his e-mail list that computer repairs at the shop he frequents cost only $20, and is mistaken because the actual price is $50, he made a mistake. He may upset his friends who go into the shop expecting to get a $20 computer repair only to face a more than double price tag.

If the shop owner tells everyone that computer repairs at his shop are only $20, when in fact he charges $50 he is engaged in an activity that, if caught, will end with him paying some pretty serious fines. If he continues he can have be denied the right to operate a business in his state. This is the case even if the entire matter was a mistake.

The merchant, when speaking of misinformation, is held to a different standard than the customer.

Except that even big businesses have had typos in ads that give the wrong price and all they need do is apologize. It happened to us a couple of times. Ad goes in, newspaper prints a typo, people think we’re being “clever”, but in reality, there’s no way that’s a win for the company.

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

This may be the case where you live, but it is not the case everywhere (and I admit that the laws that apply here in California do not apply everywhere either).

The company for which I manage a store runs a weekly sale where special price tags are applied to the sale items. At the end of the week the sale tags are removed. If, as has actually happened, a store is short handed (in one instance it involved most of the staff being down with the flu a couple of years back) and the person pulling the sale tags (hundreds if not thousands of them) rushed and missed a few, and an auditor happens to visit the store the next day before the oversights can be fixed, the store faces a thousand dollar fine for each missed tag. Intentional or not.

This is not a hypothetical situation. A single store missed almost a hundred tags (one aisle) and had a close to $100,000 fine levied against it.

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

And trying to prove intent is where most attempts to “get” such cases for the plantiff fall a little short – it’s really hard without a smoking gun like internal memos or information from insiders.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

This may be the case where you live, but it is not the case everywhere (and I admit that the laws that apply here in California do not apply everywhere either).

The company for which I manage a store runs a weekly sale where special price tags are applied to the sale items. At the end of the week the sale tags are removed. If, as has actually happened, a store is short handed (in one instance it involved most of the staff being down with the flu a couple of years back) and the person pulling the sale tags (hundreds if not thousands of them) rushed and missed a few, and an auditor happens to visit the store the next day before the oversights can be fixed, the store faces a thousand dollar fine for each missed tag. Intentional or not.

This is not a hypothetical situation. A single store missed almost a hundred tags (one aisle) and had a close to $100,000 fine levied against it.

I work at a store where tags are applied similarly, and needing to be taken down. We have a simple policy – remove the offending tag when discovered and if a customer brought the item and contested the system price . . . if it’s within a margin we can alter it and let them have the “wrong price” but nobody else gets it after the issue is resolved.

As far as I know there’s no disciplinary actions taken short of “please try to catch those things more often”.

Listen, this was a major feature patch. Numerous aspects of the game were completely overhauled. No matter how much testing a QA department can do, there is no way they could test it the same way as unleashing a hoard of players on it to rely check all the nooks and crannies, trying to use things like the TP in ways they never imagined, etc.

Look how many players ran into problems just installing/patching the game this time. All centered around the coherent component not being to access the Internet due to unusual proxy configs or normally benign adware scripts from other software. There’s bound to be bugs as well as a few major ones. We’ve had 5 patches so far and I expect a more between now and a week from now.

But yes, based on a few rumors and stoked by anecdotes and a lack of reliable, valid information, a lot of us, me included, jumped on the “OMG What did you do to my game!” bandwagon. From leveling to suppressing pets when it gets crowded but not unsuppressing them when the crowd passes, only checked when you zone in. People don’t like change and developers who have been living with these changes on their internal test builds may have already acclimated to the changes and simply can’t grasp how players would react.

What they really need to do is fix the vet experience when playing a new character. We don’t need the same info dump a first time player has. Give us an option to skip the info dumps and info removal, like map locations of mat nodes, for vets. You already said that vets will have the WvW and PvP icons unlocked in the upper left if you are a vet rolling a new character, but you need to remove all of that simplification of information for a vet. We’ve handled it well without all this and for most, on some level, understand you need to do this for the uninitiated MMO newbie but treat the vets like vets.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

This may be the case where you live, but it is not the case everywhere (and I admit that the laws that apply here in California do not apply everywhere either).

The company for which I manage a store runs a weekly sale where special price tags are applied to the sale items. At the end of the week the sale tags are removed. If, as has actually happened, a store is short handed (in one instance it involved most of the staff being down with the flu a couple of years back) and the person pulling the sale tags (hundreds if not thousands of them) rushed and missed a few, and an auditor happens to visit the store the next day before the oversights can be fixed, the store faces a thousand dollar fine for each missed tag. Intentional or not.

This is not a hypothetical situation. A single store missed almost a hundred tags (one aisle) and had a close to $100,000 fine levied against it.

I work at a store where tags are applied similarly, and needing to be taken down. We have a simple policy – remove the offending tag when discovered and if a customer brought the item and contested the system price . . . if it’s within a margin we can alter it and let them have the “wrong price” but nobody else gets it after the issue is resolved.

As far as I know there’s no disciplinary actions taken short of “please try to catch those things more often”.

Our policy is that if the tag is wrong the item is free.

The state imposes a $1000 fine for each inaccurate price tag. They don’t ask if we mis-labeled the item intentionally. The audit and fine are based purely on the objective count of items whose price tags do not match the cash register listing. One mis-ship from the printer involving a store receiving prices from another region/state has the potential to mean a million dollar fine….and if an auditor gets that kind of yield out of one store for a given company other stores should expect audits shortly.

Ashen.2907:

Our policy is that if the tag is wrong the item is free.

The state imposes a $1000 fine for each inaccurate price tag. They don’t ask if we mis-labeled the item intentionally. The audit and fine are based purely on the objective count of items whose price tags do not match the cash register listing. One mis-ship from the printer involving a store receiving prices from another region/state has the potential to mean a million dollar fine….and if an auditor gets that kind of yield out of one store for a given company other stores should expect audits shortly.

. . . in a way, this seems to be one of those things which sounded like a wonderful law to enact when being dreamed up by people trying to stop “greedy and crooked companies” and misfired terribly by swinging in the other direction to punishing them excessively for things they might not have the ability to control.

And that honestly seems to be almost on topic in that sense “Overcorrecting in the opposite way”.

The problem with the straw poll (or any other thing of this kind) is that people who like the changes probably do not visit the forums to see what others say about it. Since those people don’t want it to change (again), they won’t come to the forums saying “Please don’t change it”.

On the other hand, people who don’t like the changes will come to the forums and complain/support others saying “Change it”. They also come out of curiosity of knowing what other people say about it.

And that is proven fact.

I have posted on the forums previously about the way the game has not progressed imo, but has regressed to a sad state. I have 12 alts, 11 at 80, and my last one at 10, which due to your new system, I will sadly not even attempt to level. I was able to do full 100% map completion on a ranger which was my first toon, and although I only had mediocre armour, weapons and trinkets’, I was able to solo the whole map. It just seems that greed always drives the developments, and now on a completed arah map, my rewards were lev 76 weapons (what can I do with this). I have also found the most common lev weapon from mystic is now also lv 76, this is not a coincidence, as my toons are lev 80’s and require lev 80 weapons. I am assuming the RNG which is supposed to be random, has been changed to NOT so random. I used to do boss run, collect rares, and drop in mystic and usually get something decent once per day. I have done this all week, and yes, I got a weapon yesterday, pffft Lev 76, seems to be a pattern to the system I think. So you have taken an awesome game and have slowly cut every fun thing from the game, so the guildies cannot make money on their own, but would have to now spend money and buy gems to complete their toons. The whole structure of the game has changed to make money for you, yet it detracts from us having fun, and what you fail to realise, is that we are supporting the game, yet you give us what you feel is best for us, and pay no attention to your own forums and what we are asking for. I believe in supporting a “free to play game”, and am a regular money spender on the game, but due to your decisions on changing things so drastically, I have decided not to spend more money. I would like to add that if you fishing with holes in you’re net, you going to lose the majority of your fish through the holes, so I suggest you take care of those holes before you lose the whole “catch”.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

However it’s also not illegal. It’s illegal only if it’s intentional.

This may be the case where you live, but it is not the case everywhere (and I admit that the laws that apply here in California do not apply everywhere either).

The company for which I manage a store runs a weekly sale where special price tags are applied to the sale items. At the end of the week the sale tags are removed. If, as has actually happened, a store is short handed (in one instance it involved most of the staff being down with the flu a couple of years back) and the person pulling the sale tags (hundreds if not thousands of them) rushed and missed a few, and an auditor happens to visit the store the next day before the oversights can be fixed, the store faces a thousand dollar fine for each missed tag. Intentional or not.

This is not a hypothetical situation. A single store missed almost a hundred tags (one aisle) and had a close to $100,000 fine levied against it.

I was talking about a published ad, not a tag on an item. That’s the same in most places. But that’s not an “advertised” item, it’s a tagged one. Companies need to be protected to and typoes that aren’t their fault, as far as I know ANYWHERE, the law does not require you to honor them. Typoes in media like newspapers.

Getting a little far afield, Vayne & Ashen.

Would help a lot if anet could implement a small survey into the game which is slapped into everyones face a month or two after a big patch, then another at 5th or 6th months.

Would be like a “Feedback system” and no one would have to do the hard journey of finding the forums, logging in, creating a thread etc…

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Getting a little far afield, Vayne & Ashen.

My apologies.

Ultimately I think that the patch has some pretty noticeable design flaws.
It also has some pretty significant bugs. Not only are forumites complaining, people who have never previously posted are coming here with concerns and complaints.

Anet has acknowledged the existence of bugs and is working on them. They have also indicated a willingness to tweak changes (to some unknown extent) if needed.

I personally think that some of the level gating complaints might be a bit overblown. If it took X hours of play to get to something before and it takes approximately X hours of play now, why does it matter what level you are ?

But, and this is an important but IMO, each person is going to feel the impact of the changes individually. The fact that it doesn’t bother me does not mean that it won’t legitimately bother someone else.

Vayne.8563:

See this is the kind of post I find most objectionable. Demanding an explanation from a company that’s already explained. Ridiculing them because you don’t agree or understand something.

Feel free to object, that’s what the forums are for. But to clarify my intent:
I’m not demanding an explanation. I’m asking if the one who came up with the idea and believes is good could come up here and enlighten us stupid and not understanding and explain why the idea is good. If I believe in something, it’s natural I believe it’s worth defending. That person should believe it too. If they don’t, well… that does explain a lot.

And no, the system wasn’t explained. Notice that the level gates are absent from the pre-patch teasers. Only rewards with each level. Only thing that’s mentioned to be gated is the personal story, and that’s a vague mention at best. I wonder why that is.

Vayne.8563:

Take the ranger pet controls. The main controls unlock at level 5. Level 5!, it’s like 20 minutes into the game.

Okay, let me enlighten your horrible lapse of judgement in here. You unlock skill F1 at level 5. That is. NOT. Main controls. That’s only being able to tell your pet to attack a certain target. Which it does automatically anyway. You unlock “main” controls – the ability to call your pet back – at level 22. Until then, the pet is uncontrollable. That’s a very fine notion, teaching the early rangers the pet is a completely uncontrollable appendix they don’t have to care about.

It’s the one thing I find inexcusable and undefendable. The game is locking basic skills, which when unavailable, actually hamper and actively damage your play.

Vayne.8563:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there’s no room for this kind of post on the forums.

I activelly suggest you go ahead and look up the definition of a “forum”. It’s the beautiful thing about forums. There’s room for EVERYONE’s post on it. Even a post you disagree with.

Vayne.8563:

If you have a problem with the patch, it’s possible to state it without insulting staff members who worked kitten an update, just because you don’t like a tiny percent of the upgrade (and the NPE really is a small percent of the update).

I do have a problem of the update. I also consider myself a levelheaded individual. I never said the rest of the update isn’t genuinely good, if you think I did, you’re mistaking me for someone else. I like the levelling rewards, I even like the new Trading Post.

But I firmly believe the level gates and changes made to early play are activelly damaging the experience for new AND old players alike. The system is just botched and implemented in all the wrong places. The fact that tutorial area now doesn’t require any actual tutorials (you can’t die and NPCs do ALL the fighting for you). The fact that on one hand, the starting areas are now insultingly easy but at the same time, downed state has been gated (and not just downed state “at level 5, 20 minutes into the game”, but also the skills in it are gated for later).

And let me clarify here: I never insulted ANet staff, I never intend to. I only called this very idea stupid, which I still claim it is. I do and will call out people I respect on stupid decisions, because humans are prone to error. All of them. Even you, I, the ANet staff. So please, get your reading skills straight before you start calling me out on something I didn’t do.

Changer the Elder.2948:

Vayne.8563:

See this is the kind of post I find most objectionable. Demanding an explanation from a company that’s already explained. Ridiculing them because you don’t agree or understand something.

Feel free to object, that’s what the forums are for. But to clarify my intent:
I’m not demanding an explanation. I’m asking if the one who came up with the idea and believes is good could come up here and enlighten us stupid and not understanding and explain why the idea is good. If I believe in something, it’s natural I believe it’s worth defending. That person should believe it too. If they don’t, well… that does explain a lot.

And no, the system wasn’t explained. Notice that the level gates are absent from the pre-patch teasers. Only rewards with each level. Only thing that’s mentioned to be gated is the personal story, and that’s a vague mention at best. I wonder why that is.

Vayne.8563:

Take the ranger pet controls. The main controls unlock at level 5. Level 5!, it’s like 20 minutes into the game.

Okay, let me enlighten your horrible lapse of judgement in here. You unlock skill F1 at level 5. That is. NOT. Main controls. That’s only being able to tell your pet to attack a certain target. Which it does automatically anyway. You unlock “main” controls – the ability to call your pet back – at level 22. Until then, the pet is uncontrollable. That’s a very fine notion, teaching the early rangers the pet is a completely uncontrollable appendix they don’t have to care about.

It’s the one thing I find inexcusable and undefendable. The game is locking basic skills, which when unavailable, actually hamper and actively damage your play.

Vayne.8563:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but there’s no room for this kind of post on the forums.

I activelly suggest you go ahead and look up the definition of a “forum”. It’s the beautiful thing about forums. There’s room for EVERYONE’s post on it. Even a post you disagree with.

Vayne.8563:

If you have a problem with the patch, it’s possible to state it without insulting staff members who worked kitten an update, just because you don’t like a tiny percent of the upgrade (and the NPE really is a small percent of the update).

I do have a problem of the update. I also consider myself a levelheaded individual. I never said the rest of the update isn’t genuinely good, if you think I did, you’re mistaking me for someone else. I like the levelling rewards, I even like the new Trading Post.

But I firmly believe the level gates and changes made to early play are activelly damaging the experience for new AND old players alike. The system is just botched and implemented in all the wrong places. The fact that tutorial area now doesn’t require any actual tutorials (you can’t die and NPCs do ALL the fighting for you). The fact that on one hand, the starting areas are now insultingly easy but at the same time, downed state has been gated (and not just downed state “at level 5, 20 minutes into the game”, but also the skills in it are gated for later).

And let me clarify here: I never insulted ANet staff, I never intend to. I only called this very idea stupid, which I still claim it is. I do and will call out people I respect on stupid decisions, because humans are prone to error. All of them. Even you, I, the ANet staff. So please, get your reading skills straight before you start calling me out on something I didn’t do.

Sorry but you’re wrong. I unlocked those pet skills to control your pet way earlier than level 22. I saw this claim when my ranger was level 18 and the skill to call your pet back was already unlocked. I’m going to go play a ranger right now, to level 5 to verify, but I’m almost postive those skills unlock at level 5. They certainly don’t unlock at level 23, because I had them before that on my new ranger.

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but you’re wrong. I unlocked those pet skills to control your pet way earlier than level 22. I saw this claim when my ranger was level 18 and the skill to call your pet back was already unlocked. I’m going to go play a ranger right now, to level 5 to verify, but I’m almost postive those skills unlock at level 5. They certainly don’t unlock at level 23, because I had them before that on my new ranger.

In which case, I’ll readilly admit I’m wrong about set gate; I’m taking my facts from the official topic “Misconceptions (…)”, which clearly states that F3 skill unlocks at 22 and F4 at 24. No asterisk or note “For this class only”.

Problem is, I still believe ANY kind of gating this function is plain wrong. What is the tutorial instance for now? You can literally run through it, not attack anything, stand in front of the final boss and go for a coffee break. It doesn’t teach you how to fight, how to stay alive, how to control your basic functions (because yes, I’m positive F key IS locked in those instances completely, so a beginning ranger has their pet run around with no control). I’m sorry, but that very notion I find wrong.

Okay so ranger pet skills F1 and F3 unlock at level 5, Screenshot attached. This is the sort of thing I mean. If you can’t live for 5 levels in the current climate without calling your pet back….I don’t know what to say. And you know if you die, it’s not the biggest deal in the world either, because there’s no armor repair and waypoints are dirt cheap at that level.

Edit: The time between my two posts was 26 minutes btw. That’s how much time it took me to make a new character and level that character to five. I was using no experience booster, food or potion.

Vayne.8563:

Okay so ranger pet skills F1 and F3 unlock at level 5, Screenshot attached. This is the sort of thing I mean. If you can’t live for 5 levels in the current climate without calling your pet back….I don’t know what to say. And you know if you die, it’s not the biggest deal in the world either, because there’s no armor repair and waypoints are dirt cheap at that level.

Okay, good to know. In which case, I partially concur. The question remains, however, why the topic that’s aiming to clear the misconceptions about the new patch creates new ones by having very, very inacurrate information.

And still, from what I know, pet swap unlocked at 24. Lovely. Why.

Yes, those ALL are changes I CAN and most likely will get used to. Problem is, I don’t want to. Human beings are very adaptible creatures. They “got used to” many things, many of them much more unpleasant than a game patch. And there’s a great many unpleasant things (not only for me, but for many players, it seems) in this patch I mentioned in posts above that you haven’t adressed and which I know are accurate and find them to be almost euqally stupid as the pet mechanic you’ve proven to be inacurrately reported. (Also, kudos for neatly sidestepping the rest of my arguments or ignoring them completely, tells me all I need to know.)

Not to mention, as I said. Having part of your equipment uncontrollable until ANY level (yes, level 5 takes a short while, but it still IS time) is just plain BAD. I hope I cleared up that confusion for you.

Changer the Elder.2948:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry but you’re wrong. I unlocked those pet skills to control your pet way earlier than level 22. I saw this claim when my ranger was level 18 and the skill to call your pet back was already unlocked. I’m going to go play a ranger right now, to level 5 to verify, but I’m almost postive those skills unlock at level 5. They certainly don’t unlock at level 23, because I had them before that on my new ranger.

In which case, I’ll readilly admit I’m wrong about set gate; I’m taking my facts from the official topic “Misconceptions (…)”, which clearly states that F3 skill unlocks at 22 and F4 at 24. No asterisk or note “For this class only”.

Problem is, I still believe ANY kind of gating this function is plain wrong. What is the tutorial instance for now? You can literally run through it, not attack anything, stand in front of the final boss and go for a coffee break. It doesn’t teach you how to fight, how to stay alive, how to control your basic functions (because yes, I’m positive F key IS locked in those instances completely, so a beginning ranger has their pet run around with no control). I’m sorry, but that very notion I find wrong.

Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.

Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.

Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.

Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.

I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.

You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.

There is gating, but there has always been gating.

Vayne.8563:

Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.

Okay, just… stop. Stop right there. Stop melding together apples and refuse, you completely missed the argument there.

Yes, skills have always been gated. But I’m talking about things I believe that SHOULD NOT be gated under ANY circumstance, and that’s the very basic functions that NEVER were restricted before = basic pet functions are one of those functions. Please, learn to see the difference.

Vayne.8563:

Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.

I could live with that, in case that’s true. I’m not that strongly objected to that notion.

Vayne.8563:

Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.

Thank you for proving my point. What is the point of upgrading something to make it more inconvenient for both OLD and NEW players alike? Do you honestly believe new players will go through the map and tell themselves “Oh, this game makes me slightly inconvenient, that’s the right game to play then! Carry on!”? If so, you live in some very strange circumstances, mate.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.

“It doesn’t change the game for me, so it doesn’t change the game for anyone.” Right. Good idea.
And even better idea: Experienced players, just skip the first 20 levels…. you know, when you change content in a way that people want to skip it with a cheaty scroll, you juuuust maybe might be doing something wrong. Just saying.

Vayne.8563:

You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.

Newsflash: Not everyone in this game wants to play any kind of PvP (which EoTM IS). And even if they do, wow. The amazing fast levelling you get from the virtually NO experience until you’re high enough level!

Vayne.8563:

There is gating, but there has always been gating.

“So no problem if we make it significantly worse.” Okay, this debate is not going anywhere. It’s like debating a masochist whether stabbing yourself feels good.

Changer the Elder.2948:

Vayne.8563:

Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.

Okay, just… stop. Stop right there. Stop melding together apples and refuse, you completely missed the argument there.

Yes, skills have always been gated. But I’m talking about things I believe that SHOULD NOT be gated under ANY circumstance, and that’s the very basic functions that NEVER were restricted before = basic pet functions are one of those functions. Please, learn to see the difference.

Okay, I see where you’re going . . . and I’m sorry, I have to disagree somewhat. They should very well be gated under certain circumstances. Most games with pet classes I have seen them nominally gate pets – I say nominally because they unlock so early as to be practically immediately (one night of solid, dedicated play) but not to be front-issued right away.

The pet is fine where it is. Now, the F2 skill . . . I think personally could be a little earlier, but given some of them are probably a bit powerful if acquired early? Yeah, maybe I’m wrong.

Thank you for proving my point. What is the point of upgrading something to make it more inconvenient for both OLD and NEW players alike? Do you honestly believe new players will go through the map and tell themselves “Oh, this game makes me slightly inconvenient, that’s the right game to play then! Carry on!”? If so, you live in some very strange circumstances, mate.

Never played a game which didn’t have its inconveniences. In fact, this game was one of them even back on release. Having to resurrect my pet off the ground was one when it tended to die rather fast against that Champ Troll in Queensdale. OF course, the fact others could do it meant it took some sting out and I could work with that . . . then it was changed so you couldn’t rez it to get it up faster and it was back to being incredibly inconvenient since pets tend to get smeared a lot and the cycling them through was a little slow sometimes.

“It doesn’t change the game for me, so it doesn’t change the game for anyone.” Right. Good idea.
And even better idea: Experienced players, just skip the first 20 levels…. you know, when you change content in a way that people want to skip it with a cheaty scroll, you juuuust maybe might be doing something wrong. Just saying.

People were skipping with them anyway. Not everyone, but I know on most of my alts I actually wanted to play? I did exactly that. Start up, get to bank, drop pre-made armor into inventory and pop scroll.

Then proceed to stomp anything I could in starter areas for completion.

“So no problem if we make it significantly worse.” Okay, this debate is not going anywhere. It’s like debating a masochist whether stabbing yourself feels good.

Define “significantly worse” . . . I’m not having that rough of a time right now playing through a new ranger. If “significant” is “I noticed it” then there’s no point to arguing – I did notice it and must concede on that definition. Anything else . . . eeeeehhhh, it’s not as bad as realizing I need to do the WvW completions again.

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Sokia.3710:

If by “dancing chest” you mean “a huge text window that covers your entire screen” then, yes, the new level-up pop-up is a dancing chest.

Because baseless rants on forums are what cool kids do now.

Changer the Elder.2948:

Vayne.8563:

Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.

snip

Vayne.8563:

Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.

I could live with that, in case that’s true. I’m not that strongly objected to that notion.

Vayne.8563:

Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.

Thank you for proving my point. What is the point of upgrading something to make it more inconvenient for both OLD and NEW players alike? Do you honestly believe new players will go through the map and tell themselves “Oh, this game makes me slightly inconvenient, that’s the right game to play then! Carry on!”? If so, you live in some very strange circumstances, mate.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.

“It doesn’t change the game for me, so it doesn’t change the game for anyone.” Right. Good idea.
And even better idea: Experienced players, just skip the first 20 levels…. you know, when you change content in a way that people want to skip it with a cheaty scroll, you juuuust maybe might be doing something wrong. Just saying.

Vayne.8563:

You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.

Newsflash: Not everyone in this game wants to play any kind of PvP (which EoTM IS). And even if they do, wow. The amazing fast levelling you get from the virtually NO experience until you’re high enough level!

Vayne.8563:

There is gating, but there has always been gating.

“So no problem if we make it significantly worse.” Okay, this debate is not going anywhere. It’s like debating a masochist whether stabbing yourself feels good.

Your right. The debate isn’t going anywhere, because you’re stuck in a mindset that says gating = bad, even though gating existed in the game. Now you’re saying gating necessary skills. Well weapon swap is a necessary skill and it’s always been gated. It just wasn’t necessary at level 7. And controlling a pet isn’t necessary until level 5, or at least it certainly wasn’t for me.

But more to the point, you’re still saying this is bad for new players and old players, but there’s no actual evidence of that. Anet has tested this out and they seem to think it’s better for new players to the game. They could be right, they could be wrong.

But the tendency of people to think that most people play like them comes to mind here. I know for a fact that I don’t need any level gating at all and I’ll still learn a game. I know for a fact also my IQ is well above average, I’m a self starter and that I can figure things out without a clue.

I have a friend who cuts down trees for a living. Well and other landscaping jobs. He used to play GW 1 with me no problem. Linear, tutorial, the whole bit. He has no problem playing DDO which is considerably more complex. But he comes into Guild Wars 2 and he doesn’t really know what to do. He’s not having fun. Why? because hes’ the guy who LIKES to follow the arrow, of which there are many. He’s come home from work, he’s had a few beers, he wants to go kill stuff.

He’s not the only guy like that, not by a long shot. If you were a company would you want to cut off every player like that?

Life is about compromises. You can’t have it all. You can’t make a game really hard for guys like me and still have enough people to keep it viable long term. Wildstar launched to appeal to hard core raiders and dungeon guys and it’s reportedly very hard. It’s also not doing as well as expected. It’s so bad in fact that they’re already offering free server mergers and saying a megaserver is coming and asking people who like the game to hang in there. That’s a bad look for a two month old game.

We’re not the rule. We’re the exception. We don’t need gating or hand holding. Many do. Those people are necessary to keep decent sized games running in this day and age. Even Eve, which is the most successful sandbox MMO to date has just had to close it’s California office.

Realistically, the bit of inconvenience I’m getting from it is worth the chance for new people like my friend who will spend money in the gem store and he’ll happily run around shooting stuff…even if he never beats Arah explorable mode or gets to a high level fractal.

Vayne.8563:

Okay so ranger pet skills F1 and F3 unlock at level 5, Screenshot attached. This is the sort of thing I mean. If you can’t live for 5 levels in the current climate without calling your pet back….I don’t know what to say. And you know if you die, it’s not the biggest deal in the world either, because there’s no armor repair and waypoints are dirt cheap at that level.

Edit: The time between my two posts was 26 minutes btw. That’s how much time it took me to make a new character and level that character to five. I was using no experience booster, food or potion.

No WAI, that 26 minutes without recall pet RUIN WHOLE RANGER CLASS! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!

yeah ;P

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Okay so ranger pet skills F1 and F3 unlock at level 5, Screenshot attached. This is the sort of thing I mean. If you can’t live for 5 levels in the current climate without calling your pet back….I don’t know what to say. And you know if you die, it’s not the biggest deal in the world either, because there’s no armor repair and waypoints are dirt cheap at that level.

Edit: The time between my two posts was 26 minutes btw. That’s how much time it took me to make a new character and level that character to five. I was using no experience booster, food or potion.

No WAI, that 26 minutes without recall pet RUIN WHOLE RANGER CLASS! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!

yeah ;P

Hey, I’ll have you know my old ranger in GW1 knew how to do that from the moment he first took that wolf into his care and said “go chase rats, stalker, I got a wolf and they’re better”.

Grandsire Tobias was just that much better. Pity he tried going R/W though, don’t know what major malfunction happened in his head for that choice. Didn’t even know how to really wield a hammer.

And don’t get me started on how much better his formula for Troll Unugent was.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

MikaHR.1978:

Vayne.8563:

Okay so ranger pet skills F1 and F3 unlock at level 5, Screenshot attached. This is the sort of thing I mean. If you can’t live for 5 levels in the current climate without calling your pet back….I don’t know what to say. And you know if you die, it’s not the biggest deal in the world either, because there’s no armor repair and waypoints are dirt cheap at that level.

Edit: The time between my two posts was 26 minutes btw. That’s how much time it took me to make a new character and level that character to five. I was using no experience booster, food or potion.

No WAI, that 26 minutes without recall pet RUIN WHOLE RANGER CLASS! WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!

yeah ;P

Hey, I’ll have you know my old ranger in GW1 knew how to do that from the moment he first took that wolf into his care and said “go chase rats, stalker, I got a wolf and they’re better”.

Grandsire Tobias was just that much better. Pity he tried going R/W though, don’t know what major malfunction happened in his head for that choice. Didn’t even know how to really wield a hammer.

And don’t get me started on how much better his formula for Troll Unugent was.

That’s true. But your old ranger in Guild War 1 had to turn back when he ran into a log in the road. Just saying. lol

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Pity he tried going R/W though, don’t know what major malfunction happened in his head for that choice. Didn’t even know how to really wield a hammer.

At least you weren’t W/Mo. I can’t tell you how many of those Leeroy into a mob ahead of everyone else and get themselves killed. I’m sure they would have tried Echo Mending if it were possible for them to get the skills for it.

Or worse: Assassins who Dash ahead of the group and get themselves killed in three hits.

Vayne.8563:

That’s true. But your old ranger in Guild War 1 had to turn back when he ran into a log in the road. Just saying. lol

Perhaps, but he could also tell Greyfang to sic one target (enemy monk or ele) and focus on another target . . . and get this, the wolf would stay focused.

. . . genius!

Unfortunately, he did get overshadowed when some younger rangers discovered the joys of vampirism. And not because of all the glitter paint.

Vayne.8563:

Your right. The debate isn’t going anywhere, because you’re stuck in a mindset that says gating = bad, even though gating existed in the game. Now you’re saying gating necessary skills. Well weapon swap is a necessary skill and it’s always been gated. It just wasn’t necessary at level 7. And controlling a pet isn’t necessary until level 5, or at least it certainly wasn’t for me.

But more to the point, you’re still saying this is bad for new players and old players, but there’s no actual evidence of that. Anet has tested this out and they seem to think it’s better for new players to the game. They could be right, they could be wrong.

But the tendency of people to think that most people play like them comes to mind here. I know for a fact that I don’t need any level gating at all and I’ll still learn a game. I know for a fact also my IQ is well above average, I’m a self starter and that I can figure things out without a clue.

I have a friend who cuts down trees for a living. Well and other landscaping jobs. He used to play GW 1 with me no problem. Linear, tutorial, the whole bit. He has no problem playing DDO which is considerably more complex. But he comes into Guild Wars 2 and he doesn’t really know what to do. He’s not having fun. Why? because hes’ the guy who LIKES to follow the arrow, of which there are many. He’s come home from work, he’s had a few beers, he wants to go kill stuff.

He’s not the only guy like that, not by a long shot. If you were a company would you want to cut off every player like that?

Life is about compromises. You can’t have it all. You can’t make a game really hard for guys like me and still have enough people to keep it viable long term. Wildstar launched to appeal to hard core raiders and dungeon guys and it’s reportedly very hard. It’s also not doing as well as expected. It’s so bad in fact that they’re already offering free server mergers and saying a megaserver is coming and asking people who like the game to hang in there. That’s a bad look for a two month old game.

We’re not the rule. We’re the exception. We don’t need gating or hand holding. Many do. Those people are necessary to keep decent sized games running in this day and age. Even Eve, which is the most successful sandbox MMO to date has just had to close it’s California office.

Realistically, the bit of inconvenience I’m getting from it is worth the chance for new people like my friend who will spend money in the gem store and he’ll happily run around shooting stuff…even if he never beats Arah explorable mode or gets to a high level fractal.

I find it hard to believe that you can think that the mere existence of those buttons they dont have to use would cause your friend, and others to quit the game.
its one thing not knowing what a button does, its another thing for it to cripple you and cause you to uninstall.

for someone who doesnt understand the buttons, but doesnt like mousing over things and reading, they wont press any f1-f4 pet abilities, for those that do, they find fun new abilities they can use.

Once again this isnt about needing these skills to survive, this is about having access to skills that will probably be of some entertainment to you.

Hey, i can make my pet attack something before i attack something
hey i can make my pet attack whatever target i want
hey i can make my pet come back

and if you cant figure this out, you are playing the same exact way that you would be if you couldnt see the buttons.

there is no benefit to your new friend that those buttons dont exist, i dont believe that your friend was scared by its existence.

so there really isnt a logical reason that anyone should be denied 27 minutes of a more fun experience, for your friends benefit, because honestly he gained no benefit from skill locking f skills to level 5.

he may like a shiny shaky box, and he may like new gear, but he didnt gain anything by not having access to those skills for 5 levels.

I find this insulting to new players and a complete slap in the face to the foundations this game was built on..

I thought the idea for a new player was to jump into the game, explore, discover new areas and features.. for example; when you see the skill point icon you think “ooh what’s this? I’ll make my way there and have a look” then be greeted with a challenge etc.

I feel as if a new player, instead of walking into a theme park and deciding where to go and what to do for themselves have instead walked into a theme park run by a dictator telling you what to go on first and how to have fun ‘their’ way..

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

It’s the difference between me asking my wife, is this dish supposed to look like this, and me saying, this dish sucks, it’s terrible, it’s horrible, I’m never eating your cooking again.

LOL.

Not sure that the analogy holds up…can Anet make you sleep on the couch ?

Vayne.8563:

I mean we hold Anet accountable for every communication gaff they’ve made (and there have been many).

I am not going to pull out the old, “customer is always right,” adage because it has never actually been true.

But.

The merchant taking customers’ money for a service should be held to a different standard than a random customer.

There’s also the fact that Vayne keeps leaving out, this isn’t the first change to the starter areas, it’s the 2nd which is part of the reason why people are so upset. It’s not that they made unannounced changes, it’s not that they nerfed something that didn’t need changing meanwhile essential pieces of the game go untouched that actually ARE broken like condition damage, it’s not even that they made it more difficult for some players (ie veterans) it’s the fact that once again we’re left with sweeping changes that no one asked for in a system that was never broken, “tested” supposedly in a manner in which Arenanet wouldn’t have received an honest answer at all from the general populous, the people who pay them, about these changes.

The PTR’s the thing. There would be a dwindling tiny few posts about any such changes to make it out of a PTR had they had one because people would have told them prior to any release of the patch how terrible this system is, they would know about the problems that were out of sorts, and they would have fixed it before releasing it so there was no confusion because the system wouldn’t have had these things in the wrong time/level slot.

It’s the same for the cost of traits which still hasn’t been fixed. Now instead of going about playing the game because even the earning of traits without spending gold are in the wrong time slots/level you have to spend gold as a new player or alt or get help like in the map completion for many a trait being 10 levels higher than they should be for example or other such nonsense like champions being ignored by the playerbase because they are too difficult to defeat and everyone’s too busy or too weak at that level to kill such things (like the krait witch for example).

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.