Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Your right. The debate isn’t going anywhere, because you’re stuck in a mindset that says gating = bad, even though gating existed in the game. Now you’re saying gating necessary skills. Well weapon swap is a necessary skill and it’s always been gated. It just wasn’t necessary at level 7. And controlling a pet isn’t necessary until level 5, or at least it certainly wasn’t for me.

But more to the point, you’re still saying this is bad for new players and old players, but there’s no actual evidence of that. Anet has tested this out and they seem to think it’s better for new players to the game. They could be right, they could be wrong.

But the tendency of people to think that most people play like them comes to mind here. I know for a fact that I don’t need any level gating at all and I’ll still learn a game. I know for a fact also my IQ is well above average, I’m a self starter and that I can figure things out without a clue.

I have a friend who cuts down trees for a living. Well and other landscaping jobs. He used to play GW 1 with me no problem. Linear, tutorial, the whole bit. He has no problem playing DDO which is considerably more complex. But he comes into Guild Wars 2 and he doesn’t really know what to do. He’s not having fun. Why? because hes’ the guy who LIKES to follow the arrow, of which there are many. He’s come home from work, he’s had a few beers, he wants to go kill stuff.

He’s not the only guy like that, not by a long shot. If you were a company would you want to cut off every player like that?

Life is about compromises. You can’t have it all. You can’t make a game really hard for guys like me and still have enough people to keep it viable long term. Wildstar launched to appeal to hard core raiders and dungeon guys and it’s reportedly very hard. It’s also not doing as well as expected. It’s so bad in fact that they’re already offering free server mergers and saying a megaserver is coming and asking people who like the game to hang in there. That’s a bad look for a two month old game.

We’re not the rule. We’re the exception. We don’t need gating or hand holding. Many do. Those people are necessary to keep decent sized games running in this day and age. Even Eve, which is the most successful sandbox MMO to date has just had to close it’s California office.

Realistically, the bit of inconvenience I’m getting from it is worth the chance for new people like my friend who will spend money in the gem store and he’ll happily run around shooting stuff…even if he never beats Arah explorable mode or gets to a high level fractal.

I find it hard to believe that you can think that the mere existence of those buttons they dont have to use would cause your friend, and others to quit the game.
its one thing not knowing what a button does, its another thing for it to cripple you and cause you to uninstall.

for someone who doesnt understand the buttons, but doesnt like mousing over things and reading, they wont press any f1-f4 pet abilities, for those that do, they find fun new abilities they can use.

Once again this isnt about needing these skills to survive, this is about having access to skills that will probably be of some entertainment to you.

Hey, i can make my pet attack something before i attack something
hey i can make my pet attack whatever target i want
hey i can make my pet come back

and if you cant figure this out, you are playing the same exact way that you would be if you couldnt see the buttons.

there is no benefit to your new friend that those buttons dont exist, i dont believe that your friend was scared by its existence.

so there really isnt a logical reason that anyone should be denied 27 minutes of a more fun experience, for your friends benefit, because honestly he gained no benefit from skill locking f skills to level 5.

he may like a shiny shaky box, and he may like new gear, but he didnt gain anything by not having access to those skills for 5 levels.

Of course I don’t think “the mere existence of those buttons” would cause my friend to quit the game. But that argument is quite spurious.

The mere existence of too much too fast PERIOD would cause my friend to quit the game. You got to cut out something for him. Deliver stuff slower. Because he takes in stuff slower.

If you show many people a lot of options they close down, because it looks hard. This isn’t just guesswork, this is fact. Not all people, but some people. The more you show them, they harder it becomes.

If you’re teaching people computers, it’s easier to teach them with fewer icons on the screen, not because it’s easier or harder (they won’t be using advance icons anyway) but because psychologically the game feels more complex to them.

That’s why you limit information and take stuff off the map. Anet must have learned this during testing, because I’ve known it for years.

So the older ones are right when they say that the new generations are made of totally dumb and incompetent people.
I wonder what a 20yo boy would do playing “Zak_McKracken_and_the_Alien_Mindbenders”?
Would he suicide?
Is he generally even able to READ?
The reason behind this update are…sad, I don’t even know what’s the right term.
“Ok, I’m going to explain you this as you were a 3yo kid ok? Slowly, everything is going to be ok….”

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

People saying “but experience scrolls/tomes!”, that is NOT an excuse.

So what? You can’t say the faults of the new levelling don’t matter because a lot of us can get to lvl 20 or more instantly. I could also go leveling in EOTM or swapping in dungeons. But that’s no excuse for the basic levelling system to be kitten.

MikaHR.1978:

Behellagh.1468:

Then why did you say this then?

Sokia.3710:

If by “dancing chest” you mean “a huge text window that covers your entire screen” then, yes, the new level-up pop-up is a dancing chest.

Because baseless rants on forums are what cool kids do now.

Baseless rants? Well, iron my pants. I suppose one could embrace a guild hall as a base. That being the case, we are ALL baseless and I think we should kitten well rant about it!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

tigirius.9014:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

We don’t need one. With Anet’s release schedule it probably wouldn’t have helped much anyway. And it would force people to go there, or be left out of all the price gouging going on. First in, first to get the expensive stuff and make a fortune.

Yeah the removal of the hint system was a pretty bad change. I think they should have kept it. This leveling info pop up is only temporary and once you click accept, your hints are gone for good.

Rogue.7856:

Yeah the removal of the hint system was a pretty bad change. I think they should have kept it. This leveling info pop up is only temporary and once you click accept, your hints are gone for good.

:D

Rogue.7856:

Yeah the removal of the hint system was a pretty bad change. I think they should have kept it. This leveling info pop up is only temporary and once you click accept, your hints are gone for good.

I agree, they should have kept the hints. I have no idea why that was removed.

Changer the Elder.2948:

In which case, I’ll readilly admit I’m wrong about set gate; I’m taking my facts from the official topic “Misconceptions (…)”, which clearly states that F3 skill unlocks at 22 and F4 at 24.

Sorry to interject but could you provide a link to this official thread ? The only one I could find with a, “Misconceptions…” title and a breakdown of the gates is player created as is the post listing the gates. I appreciate the players’ effort but is that what you consider “official?”

If I am just missing the correct thread please accept my apologies.

All I can say about the leveling changes and trait changes is…

Thank god I leveled all 8 professions to 80 before all this bullkitten.

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

We don’t need one. With Anet’s release schedule it probably wouldn’t have helped much anyway. And it would force people to go there, or be left out of all the price gouging going on. First in, first to get the expensive stuff and make a fortune.

It would have for the feature patch because you see they didn’t release that in 2 weeks like they do with some of their LS releases so that argument is nul and void you can stop using it now.

I wont settle for anything half way to where it once was. I gave up on the trait system battle a couple months back, but that was a huge mistake because look where we are now!

After this I’m requesting this whole situation be fixed along with the trait system. The changes are completely unjustified. Majority has proved they dislike the changes so do something about it for freaksake.

I have to watch my language because I’ve been banned 3 times in the last week, once for using the word kitten…

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

We don’t need one. With Anet’s release schedule it probably wouldn’t have helped much anyway. And it would force people to go there, or be left out of all the price gouging going on. First in, first to get the expensive stuff and make a fortune.

you dont keep any items you get in a PTR, its a seperate world. Usually they may allow you to copy your charachter in. but you cant take anything back.

The only advantage people get would be knowledge, which isnt even an advantage because people who are interested would be talking about it and sharing it in the forums, they already do this. BLTC TP wizards already are in a race from the first hour of a patch to buy sell and trade based on what people figured out would be valuable based on patch notes. Anyone who takes a wait and see approach is already late to the game of TP hustling.

Not to mention, PTRs change drops/rewards often in the process. They often have placeholder drops, because they update it as new changes come in. They tweak things back and forward based on input from day to day.

Also people say ptr doesnt give you the same load testing usually.
This is true, but the main flaws with these patches arent load testing. The main flaw is generally that they have things which would be found early in testing, or could get real feedback early on and save time and money.

not saying they must have one, but with their development style, the more feedback they can get during the development process the better. They also seem have a system whereby once they give something a pass, they dont revisit it for a long time. This means finding small issues earlier is better as well.

OMNIBUS.2913:

TexArmageddon.2497:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Veteran players seem the most upset by this which i dont get. I started since release and its not like i dont hav 8 experience scrolls and 80+tomes of knowledge sitting in the bank. If your a veteran how do you not have any?

That isn’t the point… Imagine if you didn’t have any.. better yet Imagine being someone who just started 4-5 months ago with NONE… Of course older players will be mad.. it make the leveling process stupid

Thats true if u started 4-5months ago. I gues i i considered “veteran” to at least be playing the game for a 1 year.

I played very heavily for the first year and barely at all for the second. I don’t have tomes of knowledge or experience scrolls. So, even if much of my enjoyment didn’t come from leveling a new alt now and then, it appears I’d be SOL anyway.

During my first day of testing the NPE, I ended up having to level from 9 to 14 via crafting, because the inability to access Skill Point Challenges and see POIs/Vistas on the map was just far too annoying. New players would need to buy gems and trade gems for gold in order to skip the new bullkitten, which, I wonder, may be the real point of these changes? Not sure how making the first 20-40 levels so annoying that most will want to skip it helps the game…

A Public Test Realm would have made a lost of sense a year or two ago. When the game had enough of a population to support one and enough players still believed that ANet would make a good will effort to take our feedback into serious account. Neither of those conditions can be met today.

MikaHR.1978:

they observed you playing/collecting feedback for past 2 years and this is result.

According to what? Do you have a quote from Anet?

Liewec.2896:

“We want people to say, Wow that’s incredible! I’ve never seen anything like that!”

well GJ anet, we’re all thinking that!
it’s incredible! we have never seen anything like a game where rather than adding new rewards, all of your current content is removed for you to unlock as the rewards!

LOL – spot on.

Another point brought up in the thread: “Some people find the freedom of GW2 overwhelming and prefer a game that provides them a well marked, linear route through the world”.

You know, that’s a fair observation. It took a friend of mine several months of wishing for just that before he came around to appreciating the freedom the game offered. I personally think that if the game world had actually evolved via Dynamic Events, more people would have realized the benefits of GW2s content delivery strategy and would have been willing to take the time needed to adjust.

A big problem with the NPE is that while it locks game play and character progression mechanics behind level walls, to the great detriment of game play, it has done absolutely nothing to make the content more approachable for new players.

A tutorial system, that vets could turn off, that would have led new players on a linear tour though each starter zone’s content and explained elements that some found confusing, would have been an ingenious approach to bridging the gap for players used to linear MMO content, while having zero negative impact on those who embraced the GW2 method of presenting content.

NPE neuters the game, removes content and even hides important guide markers; POIs, Vistas and Skill Point Challenges, from the map; along with the removal of a number of enjoyable starting zone DEs that used to really show off the benefits of DEs. Not to mention that the Personal Story, which actually did provide a sort of linear tour of the game zones, has now been blocked until level 10, guaranteeing that even more players will skip it or not even know what it is. (They even have removed most of the tameable Ranger pets from all the starter zones, with the odd hold out likely just missed on the first pass).

A proper guided tutorial, either expanding on the Personal Story, or interacting with and supplementing it, would have made a lot of sense, with out requiring any negative changes to the game, it’s systems and it’s content.

For what ever reason, those currently in charge have been systematically destroying the phenomenal game that GW2 was at launch. The Manifesto has been deliberately gutted and everything that made the game such a standout targeted for destruction. Many have been much slower to accept this reality, which isn’t surprising because the premise sounds absurd in a logical universe. However, I think the NPE has been a real wake up call for many.

When a game would be much better off completely reverting 1 1/2 years of changes and two years of content development have amounted to less content in the world, not more, I think that’s a very serious indictment of those who have shepherded the game since launch.

Djinn.9245:

MikaHR.1978:

they observed you playing/collecting feedback for past 2 years and this is result.

According to what? Do you have a quote from Anet?

“- Over a years worth of testing with new players found we were absolutely able to keep them both more engaged, and more likely to return to keep playing Gw2 as a result of the intended system. That is at the end of the day, a win for all of us since all of you need more people to play with! However: if we find in the live environment that isn’t true and we’re not retaining new users better, we’ll absolutely both share that information with you, and continue to iterate to make it better. We keep very real time metrics of player retention for new users, and we’ll know very quickly how effective the work we’ve done is. I want to make it clear: what we used to have absolutely wasn’t good enough for our standards of retaining new users. Before we do some of the other things we want to do with Gw2, we had to fix this, period.”

“Testing was done predominantly in the west focused on players who played guild wars 2 today, people who played gw2 at launch and left, people who heavily play other MMORPG’s, and people who heavily play RPG’s. We did all of this testing ourselves in the west, I’ll just kill right now that this is a system developed for China. It’s a system developed for the global game, period, because retaining new users at early levels wasn’t just a china problem we needed to solve, it’s a problem in the west too.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Misconceptions-regarding-Level-gating/page/4

Delete this post please.

MikaHR.1978:

Djinn.9245:

MikaHR.1978:

they observed you playing/collecting feedback for past 2 years and this is result.

According to what? Do you have a quote from Anet?

“- Over a years worth of testing with new players found we were absolutely able to keep them both more engaged, and more likely to return to keep playing Gw2 as a result of the intended system. That is at the end of the day, a win for all of us since all of you need more people to play with! However: if we find in the live environment that isn’t true and we’re not retaining new users better, we’ll absolutely both share that information with you, and continue to iterate to make it better. We keep very real time metrics of player retention for new users, and we’ll know very quickly how effective the work we’ve done is. I want to make it clear: what we used to have absolutely wasn’t good enough for our standards of retaining new users. Before we do some of the other things we want to do with Gw2, we had to fix this, period.”

“Testing was done predominantly in the west focused on players who played guild wars 2 today, people who played gw2 at launch and left, people who heavily play other MMORPG’s, and people who heavily play RPG’s. We did all of this testing ourselves in the west, I’ll just kill right now that this is a system developed for China. It’s a system developed for the global game, period, because retaining new users at early levels wasn’t just a china problem we needed to solve, it’s a problem in the west too.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Misconceptions-regarding-Level-gating/page/4

“Over a years worth of testing with new players found we were absolutely able to keep them both more engaged, and more likely to return to keep playing Gw2 as a result of the intended system”

The intended system was only just released. How did they do over a years worth of testing with it?

Also, just because players leave doesn’t mean they know why.

Sorry, only read the first page so far…

…but is anyone suppose to take you guys seriously when half of the people complaining don’t know the difference between a feature being locked and the game simply telling you that feature exist at a specific level?

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

When I first started I thought it was kind of cool that I could quickly unlock all 5 weapon skills and then I cycled through each weapon my prof could have until I unlocked them all.

Now it’s the other way around. Each skill is unlocked for all weapons at the same time but now you’re stuck behind a level gate for each. Don’t know which way is faster. Don’t remember what level I was when I unlocked Skill 5 on my first weapon but it probably was well before Level 10. All weapons? Don’t know.

you could completely unlock a weapon in the starter map, so that would be level 1. as for all weapons, that depends on what class, what weapons, and how you play. for most classes, i doubt it would be level 10. it gives a very different feel, not unlocking skills by choice, but rather through experience.

In the past, skills were unlocked by using the skills on a target AND after the target dies. You’d have leveled up by the time you unlock a whole weapon. Similarly to how it is now, Elementalist attunements were also level locked so it’s not like this concept is inconceivable.

Be sure to read over the OP as I am trying to keep it up to date with links and info. If anyone has anything they think I should add to it, please let me know.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

We don’t need one. With Anet’s release schedule it probably wouldn’t have helped much anyway. And it would force people to go there, or be left out of all the price gouging going on. First in, first to get the expensive stuff and make a fortune.

you dont keep any items you get in a PTR, its a seperate world. Usually they may allow you to copy your charachter in. but you cant take anything back.

The only advantage people get would be knowledge, which isnt even an advantage because people who are interested would be talking about it and sharing it in the forums, they already do this. BLTC TP wizards already are in a race from the first hour of a patch to buy sell and trade based on what people figured out would be valuable based on patch notes. Anyone who takes a wait and see approach is already late to the game of TP hustling.

Not to mention, PTRs change drops/rewards often in the process. They often have placeholder drops, because they update it as new changes come in. They tweak things back and forward based on input from day to day.

Also people say ptr doesnt give you the same load testing usually.
This is true, but the main flaws with these patches arent load testing. The main flaw is generally that they have things which would be found early in testing, or could get real feedback early on and save time and money.

not saying they must have one, but with their development style, the more feedback they can get during the development process the better. They also seem have a system whereby once they give something a pass, they dont revisit it for a long time. This means finding small issues earlier is better as well.

In this case, in this patch, we have collections, which would need to be tested as part of the feature patch. Those who get there, and those who read forums would have a huge advantage, because not everyone does. It would force people to the PTR, they’d feel they have to be there, even if they didn’t want to.

In a game like this where that kind of change completely changes the economy, a PTR would screw with too many people.

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

tigirius.9014:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

tigirius.9014:

We’ve been saying for years now that they need a PTR for some things and what they’ve done to progression prior to max level is a perfect example of why. Even people like Vayne can’t deny this fact honestly without losing face in the process.

Yeah, I dunno about a PTR being a good idea for unrelated reasons. Primarily, I think it could lead to people quietly taking down information of what’s upcoming and preparing their Black Lion pocketbooks for it.

For the related reasons, I don’t know if the PTR would catch enough with enough players interested in taking part to realistically emulate live server loads. Remember, often times things break when too many players go trigger the same thing at once . . . that happened on Lost Shores, it happened with Dragon’s Reach Part 1.

Even if they limited PTR to feature patches it would be lightyears better then the testing they are doing now. I understand people’s desire not to see posts about content or story, I do and I agree totally with that but when it comes to game balance, or feature changes we need a PTR!

We don’t need one. With Anet’s release schedule it probably wouldn’t have helped much anyway. And it would force people to go there, or be left out of all the price gouging going on. First in, first to get the expensive stuff and make a fortune.

you dont keep any items you get in a PTR, its a seperate world. Usually they may allow you to copy your charachter in. but you cant take anything back.

The only advantage people get would be knowledge, which isnt even an advantage because people who are interested would be talking about it and sharing it in the forums, they already do this. BLTC TP wizards already are in a race from the first hour of a patch to buy sell and trade based on what people figured out would be valuable based on patch notes. Anyone who takes a wait and see approach is already late to the game of TP hustling.

Not to mention, PTRs change drops/rewards often in the process. They often have placeholder drops, because they update it as new changes come in. They tweak things back and forward based on input from day to day.

Also people say ptr doesnt give you the same load testing usually.
This is true, but the main flaws with these patches arent load testing. The main flaw is generally that they have things which would be found early in testing, or could get real feedback early on and save time and money.

not saying they must have one, but with their development style, the more feedback they can get during the development process the better. They also seem have a system whereby once they give something a pass, they dont revisit it for a long time. This means finding small issues earlier is better as well.

In this case, in this patch, we have collections, which would need to be tested as part of the feature patch. Those who get there, and those who read forums would have a huge advantage, because not everyone does. It would force people to the PTR, they’d feel they have to be there, even if they didn’t want to.

In a game like this where that kind of change completely changes the economy, a PTR would screw with too many people.

no, someone like dulfy would just post the info on a website, which is essentially what happens right now.
You dont take part in the BLTC culture do you? the people have already made predictions and have things ready to be sold within 10 minutes of logging on the day of the patch.

to be clear, if your goal is playing with economics, there is no advantage to being on the ptr, all you need is the info from the ptr, which will be readily available, probably in these very same forums. People who focus on the latest info and the economy already have a substantial advantage, that will not change.

If you are planning to make your bltc moves after reviewing the patch for a day, you are already too late to take advantage of the cutting edge economic changes.

But again it’s still first come, first advantage. It’s just that players on live who aren’t following the PTR are scratching their heads wondering why X suddenly shot up in price.

All moot anyway. I’m pretty sure there’ll never be a PTR, no matter what we think.

Possible issue with PTR:

• Much of GW2’s content is aimed at large groups; PTR’s usually have smaller populations; megaserver might solve this, might not
• PTR’s, in every game I’ve played which had them, did not mean that bugs got addressed; the state of the art was always complaints at the live patch about the company not fixing things the players reported
• PTR’s divide the player-base; this is not an issue in many games, but it is something that ANet has gone out of its way to avoid — whether we agree it’s a big deal or not

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

The whole idea of reusing already existing content and turning it into a reward isn’t a reward at all. It’s a punishment if anything, and it’s creating the very grind that they were trying to innovate out of their game from the beginning.

The whole thing failed in every way. And they need to accept the fact that their research is wrong and its time to fix it before the damage is permanent.

Rogue.7856:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Highlord.7158:

So. Who thought these changes were a good idea, and why are they still employed?

I think they’re compelling as an idea. I think the execution . . . leaves a lot to be desired.

The whole idea of reusing already existing content and turning it into a reward isn’t a reward at all. It’s a punishment if anything, and it’s creating the very grind that they were trying to innovate out of their game from the beginning.

The whole thing failed in every way. And they need to accept the fact that their research is wrong and its time to fix it before the damage is permanent.

Which existing content are you referring to?

It’s all one terrible joke after another.

Your reward for completing the first quest? A weapon you can’t off-hand wield until Lv7.

Just…why?

Nilkemia.8507:

It’s all one terrible joke after another.

Your reward for completing the first quest? A weapon you can’t off-hand wield until Lv7.

Just…why?

Because it’s a main hand weapon with slightly higher stats than the weapon you have. It’s there to teach new players how to upgrade weapons.

See the new weapon has higher damage than the old one and the tool tip that you get with the level tells you you just got a new weapon and can equip it.

I have no clue why anyone would think it’s meant to be used as an offhand.

Vayne.8563:

Because it’s a main hand weapon with slightly higher stats than the weapon you have.

I’m sure that helps Guardians a lot since, correct me if I’m wrong, they get the choice between a SHIELD or a FOCUS for completing the intro.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

Because it’s a main hand weapon with slightly higher stats than the weapon you have.

I’m sure that helps Guardians a lot since, correct me if I’m wrong, they get the choice between a SHIELD or a FOCUS for completing the intro.

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

To be honest, it took a while for me to get used to how the new way of unlocking skills works. I personally wish for certain skills to have been unlocked at a lower level such as weapon swapping, but either way, it’s not too bad of a change. I can’t say I like it however, but it’s harmless. As for the rewards, I do have to say they aren’t anything massive. It’s not like I’m expecting a legendary to pop up as I could always use some junk for salvage.

Vayne.8563:

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

Arenanet still hasn’t given me my free character slot so I can test out stuff like this without having to delete one of my existing characters.

Just sayin’

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

Arenanet still hasn’t given me my free character slot so I can test out stuff like this without having to delete one of my existing characters.

Just sayin’

I’m not saying you should test it. I’m saying if you haven’t tested it, you shouldn’t really be commenting. It’s just spreading misinformation. You do it enough it calls everything you say into focus.

Anet didn’t just change a couple of things, they revamped everything. The first first reward for getting to level two is the weapon you already have, but a slightly better version of it. The text, when you level reads like this so you can get into the habit early of swapping out older weapons for better ones.

Vayne.8563:

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said.

Wouldn´t it be even a better motivation for changing weapons if it was a different one? Well, probably considered as to overwhelming . . .

Seriously, some rewards could need tweaking: on one reward you can choose between 3 different identified dyes – which were always the same on all 5 guards I leveled up to 12.

And once I had a blue level 1 focus as a normal drop – the usability for that is quite limited around that level.

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said.

Wouldn´t it be even a better motivation for changing weapons if it was a different one? Well, probably considered as to overwhelming . . .

Seriously, some rewards could need tweaking: on one reward you can choose between 3 different identified dyes – which were always the same on all 5 guards I leveled up to 12.

And once I had a blue level 1 focus as a normal drop – the usability for that is quite limited around that level.

It’s not a question of motivation. Giving you a different weapon doesn’t teach you the same weapon can be upgraded to be better. Obviously a different weapon is good as well, but that’s not what Anet is trying to teach. They want people to look at the stats and see that one is better and upgrade to that. This actually makes sense. Remember, a person is 15 minutes into the game at this point.

This is how Anet is teaching the system. I’m not sure why giving someone a complete new weapon is better when they’re only just now unlocking the second skill of the first weapon.

The difference in stats is so small, that all Anet teaches new players is: “expect to get crap-rewards”

hydeaut.1758:

The difference in stats is so small, that all Anet teaches new players is: “expect to get crap-rewards”

Let’s review this conversation shall we:

Complaint: Haha this update is so bad, Anet is giving an offhand weapon as a reward. That’s so dumb.
Response: It’s not an offhand weapon. It’s a main hand weapon with slightly better stats than the one they have to teach people how to upgrade.
Complaint: That doesn’t explain why the guardian gets a shield and focus for the reward when they can’t even use it.
Response: Just tested it, guardian gets a mace, with slightly higher stats than the one they already had.
Comment: Anet is just preparing people for all the bad drops they’re going to get.

I guess when push comes to shove, we can keep saying stuff until we find something that fits if you want to talk down the game.

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

I think the problem isn’t that the reward isn’t sufficient for a start instance. I think the problem is that the reward is less than it was.

No one likes having something taken away or delayed. It’s like being told that instead of getting a weekly paycheck, you’ll go no pay in January, but your pay in March, May, and July will be increased to make up for it.

Malkavian.4516:

…but either way, it’s not too bad of a change. I can’t say I like it however, but it’s harmless.
…

But is it harmless? Once you bow your head and accept restrictions to previous freedoms you are more likely to do the same the next restriction that comes along. And so on, until you have lost all choice. And this in a game who’s mantra was “play the game the way you want”.

What happened to get the game we so loved into this situation? Here is my speculation.

Well a different version of the game was released in China and now they want to make both versions of the game the same so they only have to maintain one code base. If that is the case why did they make a different version for the Chinese to begin with?

I gather that they weren’t retaining these new players so they did some polling to find out why. I would guess it was because the new players didn’t know what they were supposed to do.

This could be because of
1. players new to MMOs
2. players used to different kinds of MMOs
3. people used to more direction and restrictions from authority figures and not used to “do it your way”

I think a real tutorial could have been made to actually teach and explain the basics of the game, could also be used to dispel some false expectations of players from other MMOs and could give some ideas for how to proceed and what some of the goals could be. Adding such a tutorial could have been beneficial to new players here on EU and NA servers too.

If they had added a tutorial, enhanced some of the game interfaces such as collections, wardrobes, free trait re-trait, BLTP, etc but left the actual game play (EDIT: including leveling, traits, starter worlds, etc) the way it was then they wouldn’t now be trying to force a more restrictive play style geared to another culture down the throats of players who were used to the freedoms of the previous game.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

See, this is my problem. People comment about the new patch without actually having tried the new patch. Here’s the reward for finishing the tutorial in the new patch, with the new guardian I just made to test it out.

It’s a mace, slightly better than the one you have when you start, to teach you to change weapons, just like I said. I know you don’t like that patch, but you really shouldn’t be talking about it unless you’ve tried it. That’s my objection to a lot of the stuff people having been saying. Much of it is demonstrably untrue.

Arenanet still hasn’t given me my free character slot so I can test out stuff like this without having to delete one of my existing characters.

Just sayin’

Then maybe you should refrain from talking about things easily disproven. Like the choice of weapon reward?

And while this wasn’t you, the person who was talking about “no more juveniles out in the starter area” . . . I found one in fifteen seconds in Wayfarer Foothills.

The list goes on of things which were talked about being locked or unavailble which could be proven false within an hour of starting a new character.