Guild Wars 2

Hello. After reviewing New Player Experience I thought I put all of my concerns there, but it seems like I didn’t mention one of the biggest problems.

Levels 15-30 are really really slow. To the point that it makes me cringe. I had plenty of fun at levels 1-10, mostly because how fast it was and how hearts were rewarding. Unfortunately at around level 20 you notice a huge difference in the amount of work you have to put into everything to keep leveling. It’s very noticeable and annoying. Combined with the lack of traits and only some skillpoints, it makes for a terrible experience at least until level 30.

Please fix this. Do something.

Note: It’s also worth saying that most of your changes made new players really confused about things they can and cannot do. But I already said that in my ‘review’.

I don’t think it’s hard to argue that the changes to the trait system were just objectively bad. They clearly should have left traits alone and used the acquisition system for new skills, but they tried to take the lazy way out and it backfired.

The new trait system gives literally no flexibility for new players.

The best way to do level 15 to 30 is World Explore. Just do first the cities and after that the starter maps. By then you are level 40 at least.

Level 20-30 you mean. Level 2 to 20 doesn’t exist. Scrolls ftw.

Best way: EotM through it all like a zombie (or watch TV while doing this); then start play at level 80.

for me. never few hard to lvl a character.
if rush 1-80 only need a week. no rush 2week maximum. u need to find the right way to lvl.
my way…
first 1-10 run map do quest.
15-35, edge of the mist
35-65 AC p3, edge of the mist
65-75 AC p3, SE p1, edge of the mist
75-80 AC p3, SE p1, cof p1 edge of the mist

if you follow this way to lvl. always can get to 80s in a week.

dont forget to boost before you get to edge of the mist.

JUN YANG.4328:

for me. never few hard to lvl a character.
if rush 1-80 only need a week. no rush 2week maximum. u need to find the right way to lvl.
my way…
first 1-10 run map do quest.
15-35, edge of the mist
35-65 AC p3, edge of the mist
65-75 AC p3, SE p1, edge of the mist
75-80 AC p3, SE p1, cof p1 edge of the mist

if you follow this way to lvl. always can get to 80s in a week.

dont forget to boost before you get to edge of the mist.

That’s great, but problem in this topic isn’t leveling in general. It’s leveling at certain levels. I have 10x level 80 characters so it’s not like I’m oblivious. I just think they should probably work on levels 15-30(or 20-30 at least) to make sure players actually enjoy it. It became really tedious. Fixing traits would probably help.

oxtred.7658:

Level 20-30 you mean. Level 2 to 20 doesn’t exist. Scrolls ftw.

new players do not get scrolls.

I disagree. I’m a new player and I got from lvl 17-29 just doing mapping , which can be quite fun (Cities are boring, but the maps outside of them are fun)

Yoroiookami.3485:

I just think they should probably work on levels 15-30(or 20-30 at least) to make sure players actually enjoy it. It became really tedious. Fixing traits would probably help.

Hell I think fixing traits would solve like 80% of the problem. I think most of the problem is there just isn’t that much to look forward to when it comes to leveling after like level 20 or maybe 30 because you’ve gotten all the skills you need to get and then the only thing to look forward to is traits except traits take forever to unlock the tiers and then another forever to unlock the actual traits.

NaotsuguLH.8915:

I disagree. I’m a new player and I got from lvl 17-29 just doing mapping , which can be quite fun (Cities are boring, but the maps outside of them are fun)

Well Naotsugu, as you said you’re a new player. You don’t know what was before and you really missed out. If that was ‘quite fun’ for you, then I guess before it would be “amazing”.
What I’m trying to say is – you don’t have anything to compare it to.

Although I’m glad that new players can actually enjoy it, players who tried it out before will probably be dissappointed. On the other hand, I’ve talked to some of the completely new players, and they dislike most of the limitations. (Like unlocking vistas for example)

Yoroiookami.3485:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

I disagree. I’m a new player and I got from lvl 17-29 just doing mapping , which can be quite fun (Cities are boring, but the maps outside of them are fun)

Well Naotsugu, as you said you’re a new player. You don’t know what was before and you really missed out. If that was ‘quite fun’ for you, then I guess before it would be “amazing”.
What I’m trying to say is – you don’t have anything to compare it to.

Although I’m glad that new players can actually enjoy it, players who tried it out before will probably be dissappointed. On the other hand, I’ve talked to some of the completely new players, and they dislike most of the limitations. (Like unlocking vistas for example)

Thats the whole point though. These changes where intended for new players not us veterans

Leveling a new character is a nightmare compare to old system….. I used to make alts all the time now I dont even want to at all.

Galen Grey.4709:

Yoroiookami.3485:

NaotsuguLH.8915:

I disagree. I’m a new player and I got from lvl 17-29 just doing mapping , which can be quite fun (Cities are boring, but the maps outside of them are fun)

Well Naotsugu, as you said you’re a new player. You don’t know what was before and you really missed out. If that was ‘quite fun’ for you, then I guess before it would be “amazing”.
What I’m trying to say is – you don’t have anything to compare it to.

Although I’m glad that new players can actually enjoy it, players who tried it out before will probably be dissappointed. On the other hand, I’ve talked to some of the completely new players, and they dislike most of the limitations. (Like unlocking vistas for example)

Thats the whole point though. These changes where intended for new players not us veterans

Yes I realize that, but it also fails on that level. It’s kind of like you saying “sure we had a pie with that pudding, but those new players are okay with just pudding, therefore it’s alright”.

I’ve leveled two characters to max level since the NPE. The only thing I don’t like is the trait system, but even on my mesmer, I had no trouble leveling. None at all.

I’m not sure what’s supposed to be a nightmare about it.

I am currently leveling my first character ever, an engineer, level 27 I think. I’m having a great time, but I’m kind of a completionist and I make an effort to at least get all of the semi-simple skill points in an area before moving on. I have died about a dozen times since I bought the game a few weeks ago, playing varying amounts almost every day. I have a trait but I don’t really know enough about the game to know where the trait person is, much less buy them all the time. If you say it is because of my class, I can easily believe that because of all of these turrets. I don’t have any other experience to compare it to, but engineer leveling is very fun and pretty easy.

Membraniac.3510:

I am currently leveling my first character ever, an engineer, level 27 I think. I’m having a great time, but I’m kind of a completionist and I make an effort to at least get all of the semi-simple skill points in an area before moving on. I have died about a dozen times since I bought the game a few weeks ago, playing varying amounts almost every day. I have a trait but I don’t really know enough about the game to know where the trait person is, much less buy them all the time. If you say it is because of my class, I can easily believe that because of all of these turrets. I don’t have any other experience to compare it to, but engineer leveling is very fun and pretty easy.

I’m glad you’re having fun. Traits are unlocked at level 30 I think, though I’m not sure. Contact me in the game if you will ever need any help.

Also, I’m actually amazed that you guys have no problem at all leveling from 15-30. I’ve leveled 10 or 12 levels the first day on my brand new mesmer and it was a giant downhill from there. Nothing seems to giving me much experience anymore. It got so boring that I actually used Tomes of Knowledge.

Well, I do have something to compare it to, I had 5 characters before the change(not all up to lvl 80, but all past 50), so I decided to start a new character just a couple of weeks ago. I found no issue with any of the 10 lvl increments, 1- 10(super fast), 10 – 20 through 60 – 70 were all about the same, my method is every 10 levels I would do the PS(or as close as possible, sometimes I would be 3 – 4 levels above). How did I accomplish this, easy, zone completions. Yes, doing the PS for the particular level you’re on and then completing the zone usually(though not always) would get me to the next PS level, and if it didn’t, then going to the next zone for the PS would give me enough hearts/events to reach that level. Don’t even talk about traits, etc….I don’t really bother with those until I reach lvl 80(and this is on a thief, not my favorite, just wanted one).

The NPE can be really fun, but not having traits until level 30 is kinda slow and boring. I just use my tomes to skip all of that, they should do something about levels 15-30 in the future maybe like expand it a little bit, the way you level fast in those first 15 levels all the way to level 30.

After NPE hit, I went back to a character that had been sitting at somewhere ~L26 and leveled to 30 (so I could finish the racial PS and then delete). I can’t say I noticed any difference in leveling speed compared to what I remember from before. I certainly did not have the experience of it dragging. Perhaps the OP is noticing the contrast between the rapid leveling from 2-?? and the “normal” leveling curve thereafter?

Going from Lvl 20 to Lvl 30 is painfully slow, as are the weapon unlocks, (underwater weapons especially). And, getting enough skill points for an underwater Elite still takes forever. Does Slow + Boring = fun? Is this the new math?

Sir Egil The Bull.7869:

Going from Lvl 20 to Lvl 30 is painfully slow, as are the weapon unlocks, (underwater weapons especially). And, getting enough skill points for an underwater Elite still takes forever. Does Slow + Boring = fun? Is this the new math?

Aside from Elites not being available at all until L31, I do agree that the accumulation of skill points has been slowed. From 1-30 prior to NPE, leveling alone would get you 26, now it provides 8. In fact 1-80 used to provide 76, and now provides 68, with more points back-loaded as opposed to the old one-per-level progression.

this is all working as intended because they want new players to buy experience boosters in the gem store.

atm i test all kind of classes to figure out what is good atm after so many balance
but ok i have the time

but after the new update for new players i figure out that its rely not easy ad all for new players if your not lvl 4 and doing lvl 3 mobs and your lvl 3 the mobs can easy kill you

because ad lvl 4 you get + 30 all stats up pretty sad
also it seems some mobs have a very high stack condition on you

sample human area lvl 3 to 5 close to mepi are some worms in a field
if you attack them they do easy 6 stacks of bleeding to you i think wtf

so you die very fast ad that lvl you don’t even have any remove condition skills yet

and there more mobs that is inposeble to do solo lvl 9 lvl bandits
that hit so hard that you need help from others

like a spin attack and 1 that carries a bomb with him and the explosion is so hard that you lost half you hp with high stack of bleeding -.-

harpies that do insane damage with there bow looks like when they buff up the ranger with the bow the mobs get the same buff ??

so what i see the start area is not rely good for new players if you don’t no what to do

sorry for my English

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is all working as intended because they want new players to buy experience boosters in the gem store.

New players aren’t the ones who seem to have a problem with it.

Vayne.8563:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is all working as intended because they want new players to buy experience boosters in the gem store.

New players aren’t the ones who seem to have a problem with it.

well, existing players may have level 20 experience scrolls to skip level 1 – 19 and they may have friends to tag along in WvW / EotM for events trains.

some may do dungeons explorable paths with friends or guild members and swap in before the last boss or before the final cinematic is finished playing to get the 33% experience bar.

btw, does it still works this way? the amount of experience earned from completing dungeons.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Vayne.8563:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is all working as intended because they want new players to buy experience boosters in the gem store.

New players aren’t the ones who seem to have a problem with it.

well, existing players may have level 20 experience scrolls to skip level 1 – 19 and they may have friends to tag along in WvW / EotM for events trains.

some may do dungeons explorable paths with friends or guild members and swap in before the last boss or before the final cinematic is finished playing to get the 33% experience bar.

btw, does it still works this way? the amount of experience earned from completing dungeons.

Sure it still works that way. The point is new players have nothing to compare it to and it’s not particularly painful compared to most other games.

I don’t see a lot of new people complaining about the speed of leveling up. There’s certainly not an increase in complaints.

It’s people who used to level up a certain way and perceive this way to be different that are complaining.

Yoroiookami.3485:

Levels 15-30 are really really slow. To the point that it makes me cringe. I had plenty of fun at levels 1-10, mostly because how fast it was and how hearts were rewarding. Unfortunately at around level 20 you notice a huge difference in the amount of work you have to put into everything to keep leveling. It’s very noticeable and annoying. Combined with the lack of traits and only some skillpoints, it makes for a terrible experience at least until level 30.

Please fix this. Do something.

The thing is .. lvl 15-30 have always been that slow .. before the NPE only lvl 1-15
were also that slow but they have been made faster.

On my first character that i played just via map exploration and so on it took me
130 hours to get to 80.

I think ANet also said something in the beginning that it should took in average
1 – 1.5 hours per level. However we are getting used to leveling faster and faster
now with lvl 20 scrolls, crafting, birthday booster and whatever .. oh and
of course Champtrains / EoTM and that stuff.

The only “real” problem was the changes to the traits, but not the NPE from the
second feature patch.

Levelling in GW2 is fast, and if we are honest, it is too fast even without the various XP boosters.
When the game first came out you hit level 80 with approx. 40-45% of map completion and varying levels of Living Story 1 completion.
Now you hit level 80 with approx. 25-30% of map completion and even less Living Story completion.
It seems that the same people who are complaining about how slow levelling is are the same ones that are complaining that there is nothing to do once they hit 80…..

I recently leveled a new engineer from 1-80 (71 for the sake of honesty, I only broke and used tomes at the end because I wanted to gear up already) through open world and personal story and honestly it went fine. Traits issue notwithstanding, I suspect the issue might be more the class you’re using or the fact you are used to things going faster thanks to boosters/etc rather than some new change to the leveling experience in itself.

Lvl 15-30 for me, crafting boosters + power leveling in a craft = no problem.

Speaking as a veteran leveling is still very fast and painless in GW2. After the NPE I decided to level up a 9th alt and I was gaining 20 levels a weekend. Food, guild buffs, boosters (if you have them but not needed) and a fun group of friends to level with makes it a fast and fun experience!

We always take the unbeaten paths so to hit up the mobs that haven’t been touched in a while, do content that is a few levels over our head and never skip a gathering node or event. All this without any crafting, EoTM or tomes.

It’s an MMO. Play with friends and always push yourself by completing content a few levels above you. Soo much xp!

Leveling is fine, they just need to revert the trait system and how weapon skills unlock because it was way more fun and sensible before.

Nidome.1365:

Levelling in GW2 is fast, and if we are honest, it is too fast even without the various XP boosters.
When the game first came out you hit level 80 with approx. 40-45% of map completion and varying levels of Living Story 1 completion.
Now you hit level 80 with approx. 25-30% of map completion and even less Living Story completion.
It seems that the same people who are complaining about how slow levelling is are the same ones that are complaining that there is nothing to do once they hit 80…..

That’s absolutely right, it’s the same people. I’m an example. You look at it the wrong way though.
I have ten level 80 characters. Do you honestly think that completing the same maps over and over again counts as “something to do”? I don’t. It got boring after I hit my second or third character, even with all the dynamic events. Or are you telling me that I should enjoy my 11th run the same way I enjoyed the previous ones and if I don’t, there’s something wrong with me?

Now to my point. Levels 15-30 are slow compared to what the game offers at the beggining. It’s not just a small difference. It’s massive. I’d like leveling to actually make sense and be fun to do. If you’re a new player – of course you won’t notice anything wrong with it. That’s all you know.
Veterans who are happy with the way things are right now surprise me. I don’t really understand how can you be grateful and happy about something that used to be much better.

And yes, traits are probably the biggest issue here. It doesn’t neccesserily take that long to level up. It just feels that way because it’s boring and dull.

With my last character i did the following :

-Level 20 scroll / birthday booster
-100% Queensdale, Wayfarer Foothills and Hoelbrak
- Do personal story for level 10-30
- do some random stuff up to level 35
- craft up to 55 with cooking, jewlery, artificer
- get a set of knights stuff
- go Dredgehaunt Cliffs do all the fast events there if available and else kill all yellow
mobs

That took me to 80 in 24 hours without having to run in some trains.
Don’t know where the problem is as a “veteran”.

I also upgraded my items mostly all 5 levels .. at 60 first berserker set of course.

- I do it completely differently again;
Map Completion, Events, and no I said absolutely none not even level 10 personal story until level 80.

So, your complaint is that leveling slows down over time? Every MMO does this. Pretty much every RPG do this. GW2 did this before the NPE. I have six 80s, four of them leveled before the NPE. If you’re complaining that leveling 15-30 is slower with the NPE than it was previously, you’ll need to show some numbers, because it feels much, much faster to me.

even before the GARBAGE trait system overhaul and the limiting NPE, lvl 20-40 was brutal for some classes (mesmer/ele). so glad i have no need or interest in starting a new character.

that said, if i didn’t know the old systems, i probably wouldn’t mind much when compared to experience with other games.

cthaeh.2168:

So, your complaint is that leveling slows down over time? Every MMO does this. Pretty much every RPG do this. GW2 did this before the NPE. I have six 80s, four of them leveled before the NPE. If you’re complaining that leveling 15-30 is slower with the NPE than it was previously, you’ll need to show some numbers, because it feels much, much faster to me.

from what i’ve heard, leveling is probably same or faster….whether its as enjoyable is another story/opinion.

Nidome.1365:

Now you hit level 80 with approx. 25-30% of map completion and even less Living Story completion.

I’ve done 31% map completion and personal story through all the level 60 ones and I’m only level 64… I started a tiny bit before the April patch though so I don’t know if that would affect my leveling speed, but either way I don’t think 30% map completion equals level 80.

Einlanzer.1627:

Leveling is fine, they just need to revert the trait system and how weapon skills unlock because it was way more fun and sensible before.

I agree A LOT with this. Traits are what keep leveling interesting for the entire 2nd half of the game and the new trait system ruined that. That’s a huge reason why the leveling feels really boring.

I lvled my thief to 80 in no time and i wasn’t even trying. I was more than happy to use lvl 20 scroll, and finally i could use my birthday and xp boosters i got stacked in my bank, along with food effect and utility effect. And i was completing map and doing story

Only now, even when i am doing my map for 5th time, my traits are empty, i will have to buy a lot.

Hmn, might be just because I know how to play the game better now and where everything is, but I levelled two characters before the changes and a third after the changes and in my opinion levelling was multiple times faster than it was before for me. Not sure what my map completion for that character is, but it’s not even close to 50% iirc, i’ll have to check tonight and report back.

@OP I think the issue you have is that you don’t think 1-2 levels/day is a fast enough pace. Once you get past the starter levels (1-15), GW2 is pretty much a 1-2 levels/day kind of game (if you play ~2h each day). And that’s consistent from 15-80.

Source: 10 level 80 characters.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve leveled two characters to max level since the NPE. The only thing I don’t like is the trait system, but even on my mesmer, I had no trouble leveling. None at all.

I’m not sure what’s supposed to be a nightmare about it.

Me too! It took me maybe slightly over a week but was plenty of fun and I got easy map completion with new guides. No reason to force yourself into EOTM unless you seriously love it.

I definitely agree trait system is bad, though. You lose ability to play around with builds.

I think its only hard for your FIRST lvl 80. After that you accumulate tomes of knowledge, scrolls and other things (or a 20 levels scroll) that can help speed up the process for future alts. I have 8 lvl 80’s, and within the past two weeks ive gotten a lvl 20 scroll and 9 tomes of knowledge.

It is a nightmare to level up alts these days, indeed!
And it’s really boring doing the same map for your alts!
I just wish they would have these exp scrolls of lvl 80’s aswell..

I normally have this strategy when levelling up:
1-15 I get quickly by completing one and half starter area (using cheap nourishments for the 10%x2 XP from kills)
Reached level 15, I head to Diessa, first heart if you get there from Black Citadel. Completed that, speak to the heart vendor and buy a full lvl 15 Masterwork armor for almost nothing. Get a Masterwork weapon too if it didn’t drop already and head to do the story. It will get you about 2-2.5 levels. After that, some quick and very cheap crafting (Chef and artificer normally, guess jeweler can do as well) to bring yourself to level 20+25.
(If you can, try to complete the 2 reward tracks from PVP every day, in order to get the 2 tomes of knowledge, but try to keep these for lvl 50+)
After that, move to story again then rush to clear Gendarran fields, very quick, easy and xp rewarding map. Don’t skip the events, most of all when they help for hearts progression!
As you reach level 30, continue story again and from here on just proceed with whatever power-levelling you can do, dungeons if you have nice guildies/friends to let you join, EotM, more crafting if you have tons of materials/gold…
Oh, one tip never to forget! Make sure to complete your daily on that lowbie, that’s quite a good amount of XP as well rewarded from that!
When you reach level 60, head to Mount Maelstrom and Fireheart Rise. Finish both, they reward exotics for completion and allow you to get more XP, can be a very worthy way to earn 5-8 levels+a nice bunch of gold if you are lucky enough to be rewarded with some exotic with valuable runes or sigils.
Then you can try with Straits of Devastation (I myself on my last char have finished whole Orr included Cursed Shore before reaching level 78)
But overall I highly suggest to do some little amount of PvP every day, just to spare some tomes, they help a lot!