Guild Wars 2

Raf.1078:

sorudo.9054:

….i play an mmo for the game, really don’t care about the loot at all……young players these days….

Same here. If I make enough to keep me in siege wvw, I’m a happy camper. But the loot frenzy in this game…sheesh.

It is in all games – it is the RAID/Entitled attitude that is rearing it’s ugly head.

Xenon.4537:

I’m scared NCSoft would sooner shut down GW2 than radically restructure its monetization. They already shut down like 3 other MMOs they weren’t satisfied with.

I’m scared they will just nickel and dime it to death. arenanet or ncsoft whatever it doesn’t matter my point is still the same. The people in charge would rather make a quick buck then a product that will last.

Mirta.5029:

It’s so that people would buy gems and convert them to gold. This is on one of their official advertisement pages.

Exactly this.

This is where business model interferes with game design. Why F2P and B2P methods do not work.

People fail to realize that F2P/micro-transaction games can be and generally are more expensive than your typical $15/month subscription games.

Azure Prower.8701:

Exactly this.

This is where business model interferes with game design. Why F2P and B2P methods do not work.

B2P worked just fine for Guild Wars and nothing prevents P2P models from having all that cash shop garbage tacked on. It’s a matter of being able to control your greed and see the longterm benefits of building a successful franchise.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Raf.1078:

sorudo.9054:

….i play an mmo for the game, really don’t care about the loot at all……young players these days….

Same here. If I make enough to keep me in siege wvw, I’m a happy camper. But the loot frenzy in this game…sheesh.

It is in all games – it is the RAID/Entitled attitude that is rearing it’s ugly head.

I’m happy for you guys , you have different priorities than other people and other people have different priorities than you. Wow what a concept, it doesn’t mean your way or their way is right. So please stop the condescending BS. It just makes you look like a stuck up kitten bag.

somsom.5201:

As others have said, ANet is focusing more and more on the gemstore side of the game and less on the actual game(lets be realistic: the wardrobe patch should have been there on day1).

When their 2 latest ads feature a bullet point of “get more gold” and suggest you RM -> gems -> gold…it’s not hard to see where the future of this game is heading.

There needs to be more outcry against that type of advertising. It’s like Anet is becoming a scumbag car salesman. It’s just not good for their image. And if indeed that’s the direction they want to take the game, I think they will seriously be risking the death of GW2.

kratan.4619:

A R W E N.6895:

Azrael.4960:

Real money -> Gems -> Gold conversion has been part of the game from day 1, didn’t you know?

But did you know that the focus on gemstore is actually increasing so much?

But did you know that their jobs depend on people spending in the gem store and not just providing free content?

But, did you know not everyone is uber-rich, whether it be IRL or in-game and that they COULD put out expansions to make money like they did with GW1.

Xenon.4537:

somsom.5201:

As others have said, ANet is focusing more and more on the gemstore side of the game and less on the actual game(lets be realistic: the wardrobe patch should have been there on day1).

When their 2 latest ads feature a bullet point of “get more gold” and suggest you RM -> gems -> gold…it’s not hard to see where the future of this game is heading.

There needs to be more outcry against that type of advertising. It’s like Anet is becoming a scumbag car salesman. It’s just not good for their image. And if indeed that’s the direction they want to take the game, I think they will seriously be risking the death of GW2.

I kind of prefer it, as it is eye opener for many people. I prefer people and corporations to be honest and own what they are. Plus it makes it harder for the white knights to do their jobs ;-)

cainejw.7142:

Content is still content even if it’s just a skin. Content’s an umbrella term for storyline, items, zones, skills, etc. It’s all content. I think the problem is that gamers think content must be meaningful storyline they can play through.

I still don’t agree at all. Words need to have clear meanings, just because you make one logical jump based on comments about one game doesn’t change the meaning of a word. If you continue to call styles content it’s only going to lead to more confusion. You may think it’s a problem with gamers, but I’d argue that if you feel that it’s something prevalent than you shouldn’t be trying to change the meaning but instead conform to allow clearer communication.

cainejw.7142:

Gold sinks. Why do you think you now have to pay to start an event? Because Anet has no idea how to creatively handle gold in the economy other than “Pay me to access this content!”

It’s because gold is abundant and easily gained if you have a lvl80 and they took out one of their gold sinks? AC 1/3(3.5g) cof 1/2(2.5g) coe 1-3(3.6g) (all assuming you get the 20s and the once per day path chest) will net you easily almost 10g and that’s not even counting drops. Running these paths will take a good group at most an hour and a half or so.

Having a gold sink in the game is fine as long as it serves some kind of purpose.

Azure Prower.8701:

Mirta.5029:

It’s so that people would buy gems and convert them to gold. This is on one of their official advertisement pages.

Exactly this.

This is where business model interferes with game design. Why F2P and B2P methods do not work.

LOL – sorry you are wrong – GW1 proves that B2P works.

Sub model only works if they give you WMORE than what F2P and B2P give you and most of the time they give you less because it is hidden behind a cash curtain (ESO Imperial race) or in the CS only (Rift had items like that).

Nothing in the CS, in GW2, is needed or necessary to enjoy the game.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

cainejw.7142:

Gold sinks. Why do you think you now have to pay to start an event? Because Anet has no idea how to creatively handle gold in the economy other than “Pay me to access this content!”

It’s because gold is abundant and easily gained if you have a lvl80 and they took out one of their gold sinks? AC 1/3(3.5g) cof 1/2(2.5g) coe 1-3(3.6g) (all assuming you get the 20s and the once per day path chest) will net you easily almost 10g and that’s not even counting drops. Running these paths will take a good group at most an hour and a half or so.

Having a gold sink in the game is fine as long as it serves some kind of purpose.

They already nerfed the gold you could make. That 10g used to be way higher. Try 100g a day doing dungeons. That is what I would call abundant and easily gained. Not a measly 10g. Plus all those people that made all that gold still have a lot of it because they already have everything and don’t have much to spend it on now, so the new gold they make gets saved.

all these nerfs to gold gain and new gold sinks only hurt the poor, and they do not stop inflation because the majority of the gold out there is held by a small percentage who already have everything and so their wealth just keeps on growing.

They are better off just eradicating gold and turning the trading post into a barter house. Then create an elaborate crafting system, much more elaborate than what we have now.

Groonz.7825:

Loot is a key part of the MMORPG genre.

Itemization* is. Guild Wars 2 lacks item depth a lot.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Raf.1078:

sorudo.9054:

….i play an mmo for the game, really don’t care about the loot at all……young players these days….

Same here. If I make enough to keep me in siege wvw, I’m a happy camper. But the loot frenzy in this game…sheesh.

It is in all games – it is the RAID/Entitled attitude that is rearing it’s ugly head.

I’m happy for you guys , you have different priorities than other people and other people have different priorities than you. Wow what a concept, it doesn’t mean your way or their way is right. So please stop the condescending BS. It just makes you look like a stuck up kitten bag.

Funny how you don’t say the same to the people making broad claims about the reasons “we” apparently play.

There I was, silly rabbit, thinking that loot has absolutely no meaning and only the gameplay matters. Deary, deary me.

There seems to be a case of two competing economic issues behind ANet’s recent decisions.

I strongly suspect the frequent push of new cosmetic items on the Gemstore is not just an attempt by ANet to get money, but an attempt by ANet to get gold out of the game as an attempt to minimize the economic damage caused by the small number of players with vast gold reserves. A lot of the recent releases by ANet have included a strong economic incentive to pull stuff out of the game to change the economy. Creating Gemstore releases to encouraging buying Gems with gold seems to be the only real way to directly pull that accumulated gold out of GW2’s economy.

Look at the major releases, and you’ll see a similar pattern. You can unlock traits with gold, but new players can’t use this to unlock more than a couple of traits because this also requires Skill Points; it’s an option only for established players with large amounts of both. The current festival release allows players to cash in stored materials for chests. Ascended gear requires large amounts of T2-T5 materials, laurels, karma, and skill points. The Mystic forge is a never-ending sink for gear in the hopes of getting one of the super-rares. If it was just a goal for money, everything would be priced in just gold, but a lot of it is a sink for things other than money, including things which can’t be bought with gold.

The problem is to come up with a way to get things from the people with the money and material reserves without straight robbing them and without screwing over the people that don’t have the money.

Asmodeus.5782:

There I was, silly rabbit, thinking that loot has absolutely no meaning and only the gameplay matters. Deary, deary me.

So, you really just play for the gameplay, and don’t care about progression for your character or your account? OK then.

Gameplay is what matters. Loot is part of the game. So is it safe to say that loot is also part of the gameplay? Don’t get me wrong personally I have not had one problem with the way loot is handled in this game. 4k+ hours, and hundreds of gold in the forge and still no precursor, that’s honestly fine IMO because you can buy precursor which I did. However this update is bugged or just plain bad. Did the boss blitz, got into an unorganized Pavilion, took over an hour, and literally got 0 loot from all veterans and did not receive any bronze chest after we had killed every boss… There is definitely a problem.

Honestly the whole gemstore emphasis doesn’t matter to me anymore. I’ve decided I’m not spending a single cent on gems to support this game until they address the MegaServer concerns that we have piled up for them to respond to.

The lack of loot in this LS is one giant gold sink to try to stabilize the economy inflation. I finished the meta, and beat Liadri, so now I’m just going to go about doing what I’ve always done and ignore this release since I’m not inclined to waste my time on content that gets boring fast, and isn’t rewarding you for trying.

Lanky, one of the best things about this game was that it allowed me to progress to the top tier in no time. Then the loot has become a non-issue. Up until now I prolly gave away like 200 gold, just like that, because what do I really need it for?
It MAY however have meaning for those who craft legendaries. I understand that they would like their grind to get a bit easier.

I only agree with the stance that they need to stop nerfing loot because they haven’t released much more permanent and worthwhile content to make not-loot-farming much of an enjoyable experience.

Let’s see some more dungeons and maps and PvP modes and armor and weapon skins that aren’t related to the black lion trade post in any way. Then people will stop farming for loot and loot-farming will be at what many consider an “appropriate” level.

Your reason #1 is true in a sense. Correct me if I misunderstand, but I will infer that by “loot” you mean players seek a sense of reward and measurable accomplishment from participating in game activities (e.g. events, killing monsters, etc.). If that’s the case, then I absolutely agree, that feeling of reward is something I imagine which drives a lot of players, myself included. However, you have to ask yourself, what makes an item in game worth something? It’s only a bunch of pixels after all. And in GW2, a largely cosmetic game, the pixels you want probably don’t even give you any combat advantage or in any way improve/limit your ability to experience the game at all. (I can run level 49 fractals on an alt with all exotic armor if I wanted to, and I certainly won’t kick someone out of a dungeon because the “only have” exotics). Items have worth in the game because of their looks, not because of their stats, and because of their rarity. If legendary weapons dropped like blues and greens then everyone would have them and they would be just more trash drop (ones you can’t even salvage, at that).
Back to your original point, you say that loot is “why we play”. Well, what happens when you get your loot? “getting loot” is a nice reason to play but HAVING loot quickly becomes boring for some players. That is, once you achieve your goals and get what you want, you lose incentive to keep playing. Making “loot” more accessible and easily attainable will satisfy the impatient, but in the long run it will age the game more quickly and people will get what they want, feel dissatisfied because it was too easily attained, and then get bored and move on.

As for ArcheAge, as someone who has paid $150 for the English alpha access and who has also played the game, I can agree that it’s a great game with it’s own merit. But that being said, it’s a vastly different game than GW2 and comparing the loot in the two games in that way is an invalid comparison. In GW2 loot is individualized. Theoretically, multiple people can pull precursors from the same killing Jormag event. The drop rate HAS to be lower to compensate. As for AA, let’s say you want the glider dropped by the Krakken, the best glider in the game. Well even if that glider drops 90% of the time you kill it, it’s going to take 50+ people to take that thing down. Who decides who gets it? You still end up doing the event and not getting any “loot” because your guild leader or someone higher up in on the totem pole than you, more socially savvy than you, or more entitled than you gets the “loot”. At leas in GW2 you get SOMETHING, greens and blues and karma and experience, all which can contribute towards your legendary or whatever “loot” you desire to buy off the trading post.

cainejw.7142:

mtpelion.4562:

cainejw.7142:

Gold sinks. Why do you think you now have to pay to start an event? Because Anet has no idea how to creatively handle gold in the economy other than “Pay me to access this content!”

This statement is blatantly false.

So, how have they creatively handled gold in the economy other than paying said gold to access content? If you know a statement is false, please provide examples showing it is false. I really would be interested to know how Anet has created a gold sink that is not “Receive content for gold.”

What Content is from the gemstore only? Am I missing something? I see lots of toys and styles and what not, but that’s not content, that’s bling as another poster put it.

Skins and items. I term this as content because Anet themselves said that endgame in GW2 is cosmetic. As the end game is content, and the end game is cosmetic, therefore content is cosmetic.

While not “blatantly false,” both of your statements are really nice logical fallacies.

1. You do not “HAVE” to pay for the Boss Blitz (I assume this is the one you are referring) to, donating does speed up the reset process. Previously, this formula was followed in LA with Heal-O-Tron and the “bard” (may he rest in peace.) Extrapolating this into whether or not Anet is using it to generate revenue via the gold exchange is a gross over-generalization.

2. Your latter statement, concluding with the statement that “content is cosmetic” is a false equivocation. The statement follows the same logic as “Penguins are black and white. Old TV Shows are black and white; therefore, Penguins are old TV shows.”

Just my two coppers worth, and because I’m a fan of proper, sound argument techniques.

Code.8615:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Raf.1078:

sorudo.9054:

….i play an mmo for the game, really don’t care about the loot at all……young players these days….

Same here. If I make enough to keep me in siege wvw, I’m a happy camper. But the loot frenzy in this game…sheesh.

It is in all games – it is the RAID/Entitled attitude that is rearing it’s ugly head.

I’m happy for you guys , you have different priorities than other people and other people have different priorities than you. Wow what a concept, it doesn’t mean your way or their way is right. So please stop the condescending BS. It just makes you look like a stuck up kitten bag.

Funny how you don’t say the same to the people making broad claims about the reasons “we” apparently play.

I don’t remember this thread being about “what part of the game do you enjoy”. Its “Loot =why we play stop the nerf”. And yes it is a broad statement but I do not think it is meant to cover every player. I think it is more meant for we that play for loot. But I can not speak for the OP. I also don’t remember any where in this thread someone being condescending about another players play style until the few that I quoted chimed in.

Also for those of you that don’t play for loot. Would it hurt you if the loot tables were changed to have better the drop rates that many are asking for. I am unsure why you would even bother chiming in if its only to say you feel indifferent to loot. How does chiming in to say “kids these days” or "it is the RAID/Entitled attitude "contribute to the discussion.

I do not play for loot in any game ever. Actually, I HATE loot. With a burning passion. This genre’s frothing obsession with loot/gear, be it gear-grinding or gear-gated content or “optimizing” gear, is easily one of my least favourite aspects and endlessly annoys me when I’m just trying to enjoy myself without the constant reminder that my character is actually little more than an ambulatory armor stand and weapon rack. The onlys thing I care for in terms of gear or other loot are 1) aesthetics, 2) fun “toys” and 3) crafting for the enjoyment of creating something.

That said, I too am not happy with the way they are reducing drops. Because I hate grinding for gear, anything that makes T6 even more of a pain to get is really frustrating. The economy is broken anyway. Trading house jockeys will still make oodles of gold off other people’s effort. And people who aren’t rich and don’t like grinding/farming but are pretty much required to do it anyway are not going to be happy if an annoying activity is made even more annoying. Unhappy players are less likely to put real money into a game than satisfied players. So I just cannot fathom who is supposed to benefit from these changes.

Dusty Moon.4382:

People don’t understand that – bling, in this game, is about working for it as it is optional – now you have to work for it if you want it.

I absolutely agree with you, Dusty Moon. People whine because they want legendary items through non-legendary means. facepalm How about, don’t even consider converting money —> gems —> gold. How about, just play the game, and if you’re committed enough, disciplined enough, you get what you worked hard for. And if not, you really don’t deserve it. It’s not just about game devs making money. It’s about the game having value. Items (especially cosmetic ones) have value intrinsically because of it’s scarcity. That principle means not everyone is going to have one. What should determine who should have these precious items and who shouldn’t? Well I would suggest that it should be the people who are willing to put in the time and effort. As for everyone else… My legendary weapon, my fractal weapons, have value to me not just because of the look, but for the simple fact that you don’t have one and you want one.

Chadramar.8156:

I do not play for loot in any game ever. Actually, I HATE loot. With a burning passion. This genre’s frothing obsession with loot/gear, be it gear-grinding or gear-gated content or “optimizing” gear, is easily one of my least favourite aspects and endlessly annoys me when I’m just trying to enjoy myself without the constant reminder that my character is actually little more than an ambulatory armor stand and weapon rack. The onlys thing I care for in terms of gear or other loot are 1) aesthetics, 2) fun “toys” and 3) crafting for the enjoyment of creating something.

Just one point. The ‘Loot’ being talked about in this thread, is anything you get by playing that has been nerfed. This includes gear, mats, and gold.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Xenon.4537:

I’m scared NCSoft would sooner shut down GW2 than radically restructure its monetization. They already shut down like 3 other MMOs they weren’t satisfied with.

I’m scared they will just nickel and dime it to death. arenanet or ncsoft whatever it doesn’t matter my point is still the same. The people in charge would rather make a quick buck then a product that will last.

GW1.

Wait, what? Oh, sorry, hard to hear over all the “GIVEITNOWGIVENOWGIVEITNOWGIVENOWGIVEITNOWGIVENOWGIVEITNOWGIVENOWGIVEITNOWGIVENOW” whining. It’s impossible for you people to be satisfied, so why are you still here when it’s clear Anet’s not going to do what you want them to do in order for you to find your time in this game satisfying? Now excuse me while I go back to running fractals for fun.

I have to agree with the loot being subpar. But not because they stopped the QD champ train but because they failed to deliver alternatives to the current farm methods.

I’ll leave the link to a thread I’ve created regarding Eventloot:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Event-loot-nerfed/3820952

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I can’t get behind this decision. I can’t remember one single event which is worth farming because of the loot you get at the end. All in all I think ArenaNet should work on making eventfarming more desireable to compete with dungeonloot.
Reducing the current abysmal poor loot is definitely the wrong way.

If this refers to the end of the Queensdale Champ Farm, then the title should be “Easy Loot = Why We Play”. Personally, I wish there was NO WAY the current champ trains could ever exist again but sadly, that’s hardly the case. Champs still drop loot bags.

Yes, QD was well established and now its gone but pretty sure some farmers are already out there experimenting with other zones and finding an optimal path. Don’t worry, results will soon be published and the cycle will begin anew but in another zone. Hopefully everyone plays nicer this time.

Unfortunately, a feature of the game which was meant to promote community ended up promoting lazy play and apparently, many have gotten used to it. Zerging was a unforeseen side-effect and IMO, A-net is correct to deal with it now. If the loot was not to be nerfed, then the champs would have had to undergone a serious redesign to make effort worth the reward.

justkoh.4073:

If this refers to the end of the Queensdale Champ Farm, then the title should be “Easy Loot = Why We Play”. Personally, I wish there was NO WAY the current champ trains could ever exist again but sadly, that’s hardly the case. Champs still drop loot bags.

Yes, QD was well established and now its gone but pretty sure some farmers are already out there experimenting with other zones and finding an optimal path. Don’t worry, results will soon be published and the cycle will begin anew but in another zone. Hopefully everyone plays nicer this time.

Unfortunately, a feature of the game which was meant to promote community ended up promoting lazy play and apparently, many have gotten used to it. Zerging was a unforeseen side-effect and IMO, A-net is correct to deal with it now. If the loot was not to be nerfed, then the champs would have had to undergone a serious redesign to make effort worth the reward.

No I don’t think this thread started off as being about the QD train. There is a thread for QQing about that. This one is about the LS event which has no drops from mobs or bosses, and you only get crappy loot at the end that doesn’t make it worth doing.

Loot shouldn’t be why you play, it should be what rewards you while you play

Loot Gratification is basically the best part of a MMO but that is truly missing from gw2. Now lets go zerg the pavilion and get 0 loot =/

Yet another game going downhill because of the developer’s greed.

Nothing new.

Wonderly.1324:

Dusty Moon.4382:

People don’t understand that – bling, in this game, is about working for it as it is optional – now you have to work for it if you want it.

I absolutely agree with you, Dusty Moon. People whine because they want legendary items through non-legendary means. facepalm How about, don’t even consider converting money —> gems --> gold. How about, just play the game, and if you’re committed enough, disciplined enough, you get what you worked hard for. And if not, you really don’t deserve it. It’s not just about game devs making money. It’s about the game having value. Items (especially cosmetic ones) have value intrinsically because of it’s scarcity. That principle means not everyone is going to have one. What should determine who should have these precious items and who shouldn’t? Well I would suggest that it should be the people who are willing to put in the time and effort. As for everyone else… My legendary weapon, my fractal weapons, have value to me not just because of the look, but for the simple fact that you don’t have one and you want one.

You aren’t acknowledging the fact that it was easier for people in the past to get what you got. They aren’t asking to be handed anything they are asking for the same rate to get something that you had. How can you say with a straight face that people should just work at it when in the past it was way easier. How about make it so everyone who wasn’t around for it can make 100g a day doing dungeons. How about bring back the pen/shelt farm so the new players can get their t6 mats. This game has changed tons in the last year and for those that made tons of money in the beginning to say just suck it up is pretty lame considering that most of them had it way easier.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I have to agree with the loot being subpar. But not because they stopped the QD champ train but because they failed to deliver alternatives to the current farm methods.

I’ll leave the link to a thread I’ve created regarding Eventloot:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Feedback-Event-loot-nerfed/3820952

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I can’t get behind this decision. I can’t remember one single event which is worth farming because of the loot you get at the end. All in all I think ArenaNet should work on making eventfarming more desireable to compete with dungeonloot.
Reducing the current abysmal poor loot is definitely the wrong way.

Be careful they will probably nerf dungeon loot even more to make the event farming more desirable lol

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Wonderly.1324:

Dusty Moon.4382:

People don’t understand that – bling, in this game, is about working for it as it is optional – now you have to work for it if you want it.

I absolutely agree with you, Dusty Moon. People whine because they want legendary items through non-legendary means. facepalm How about, don’t even consider converting money —> gems --> gold. How about, just play the game, and if you’re committed enough, disciplined enough, you get what you worked hard for. And if not, you really don’t deserve it. It’s not just about game devs making money. It’s about the game having value. Items (especially cosmetic ones) have value intrinsically because of it’s scarcity. That principle means not everyone is going to have one. What should determine who should have these precious items and who shouldn’t? Well I would suggest that it should be the people who are willing to put in the time and effort. As for everyone else… My legendary weapon, my fractal weapons, have value to me not just because of the look, but for the simple fact that you don’t have one and you want one.

You aren’t acknowledging the fact that it was easier for people in the past to get what you got. They aren’t asking to be handed anything they are asking for the same rate to get something that you had. How can you say with a straight face that people should just work at it when in the past it was way easier. How about make it so everyone who wasn’t around for it can make 100g a day doing dungeons. How about bring back the pen/shelt farm so the new players can get their t6 mats. This game has changed tons in the last year and for those that made tons of money in the beginning to say just suck it up is pretty lame considering that most of them had it way easier.

Stop making sense, it’s forbidden in this place.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Also for those of you that don’t play for loot. Would it hurt you if the loot tables were changed to have better the drop rates that many are asking for. I am unsure why you would even bother chiming in if its only to say you feel indifferent to loot. How does chiming in to say “kids these days” or "it is the RAID/Entitled attitude "contribute to the discussion.

To some extent, yes it would hurt if the loot tables were adjusted for more loot. A lot would depend on the exact changes, of course. It may be that a better drop rate would make things better in some respects more than it would hurt in others. Nothing in this theoretical discussion is to say that your concerns are not legitimate or that your concerns are not valid.

What would happen, for example, if the drop rate for precursors would increase by a significant factor (yet still be rare)? The trading post cost for a precursor would go down. The demand (and cost) for other components, such as T6 materials and things like Silver Doubloons would go up. If you want a Legendary, this is good. If you want to get a weapon/armor crafting skill to 500, the increased cost for T6s if bad. You can expect more people to be in areas that drop T6 materials. People that farm these areas for money probably like the idea. If you paid a lot for your precursor just before the announcement, or put your precursor on the Trading Post just before the announcement, this is bad.

What would happen if we increased the gold drops from all sources by a significant factor? The inflation would de-value the holdings of people with gold reserves by a lot. Eventually, all trading post prices would stabilize at a new, higher normal, so rare items like precursors would be higher in roughly equal relation to the new amount of gold drops (so you still can’t afford one). Gems will be more expensive in terms of gold, cancelling any benefit. Things with a fixed price, like the T3 armors and commander badges will be comparatively cheaper and more commonplace.

Increasing the amount of loot in general increases the comparative wealth of people that play more. They have comparatively more magic find, more chances for good drops, etc. Even if I don’t play for loot, the inflation (and ANet’s subsequent increased efforts to pull stuff out to balance the economy) do hurt me overall.

I don’t play for loot.
I play for sPvP and WvW.

Lankybrit.4598:

Just one point. The ‘Loot’ being talked about in this thread, is anything you get by playing that has been nerfed. This includes gear, mats, and gold.

Yeah, I know. Both my “I don’t care for gear” and my “so I too don’t like how an annoying grind is made worse” statements refer to all drops.

justkoh.4073:

Zerging was a unforeseen side-effect and IMO, A-net is correct to deal with it now.

Good riddance to people steamrolling starter zones and insulting newbies in the process. But if zerging was truly “unforeseen”, then Anet was willfully naive for ages. Did they never look at other MMOs and observe player behavior? Many people will usually take the easiest way to “profit”, no matter how boring or cheesy or exploitative it is. And if there is no good alternative, more enjoyable way to get gold or materials, then what are they supposed to do?

Putting a way to get loot people want/need into a game and then removing it because it’s “too profitable” just leaves a sour taste, and I say that as someone who pretty much never farms or joins “champ trains”, never did the Gauntlet bosses for money when they still gave money, etc.

Wonderly.1324:

It’s about the game having value. Items (especially cosmetic ones) have value intrinsically because of it’s scarcity.

Eh, I disagree. If I like something, I like it for itself. Doesn’t matter a whit whether every starting player gets it the instant they first log in or whether it’s rarer than a RL lottery win. Nothing another player can do could cheapen my enjoyment of it. And conversely, if I DON’T like something, I don’t give a dead rat’s last fart how much imaginary “status” is attached to it. If a guildmate gets a legendary I congratulate them because it matters to them, not because I see any value in the item itself.

I understand if people like having something to work for. I also understand that people can feel a bit bummed out if something that they got the hard way is suddenly made significantly easier to come by. What I don’t get is the insistence to lord it over others.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Wonderly.1324:

Dusty Moon.4382:

People don’t understand that – bling, in this game, is about working for it as it is optional – now you have to work for it if you want it.

I absolutely agree with you, Dusty Moon. People whine because they want legendary items through non-legendary means. facepalm How about, don’t even consider converting money —> gems --> gold. How about, just play the game, and if you’re committed enough, disciplined enough, you get what you worked hard for. And if not, you really don’t deserve it. It’s not just about game devs making money. It’s about the game having value. Items (especially cosmetic ones) have value intrinsically because of it’s scarcity. That principle means not everyone is going to have one. What should determine who should have these precious items and who shouldn’t? Well I would suggest that it should be the people who are willing to put in the time and effort. As for everyone else… My legendary weapon, my fractal weapons, have value to me not just because of the look, but for the simple fact that you don’t have one and you want one.

You aren’t acknowledging the fact that it was easier for people in the past to get what you got. They aren’t asking to be handed anything they are asking for the same rate to get something that you had. How can you say with a straight face that people should just work at it when in the past it was way easier. How about make it so everyone who wasn’t around for it can make 100g a day doing dungeons. How about bring back the pen/shelt farm so the new players can get their t6 mats. This game has changed tons in the last year and for those that made tons of money in the beginning to say just suck it up is pretty lame considering that most of them had it way easier.

I apologize if that was the impression you got; I agree, it ISN’T fair if something was easier to get back then than it is now. I don’t think older players should have an advantage over new ones. I DO think that some items should be so rare and so scarce that more people don’t have them than who do, but I think the factor which determines who gets it shouldn’t be who started the game earlier, it should be the amount of time you put into the game either farming or honing your skills. Rare things should have the same barrier to access for old and new players alike- time commitment and skill. As for 100g a day doing dungeons, if you’re referring to CoF, that’s 10-12 hours a day with an extremely fluid and focused team that rarely takes breaks even for the bathroom. While I agree with your point that it sucks that some of the methods in which older players used to obtain gold is no longer around, it’s important not to over romantacize what it actually was. And finally, Anet nerfed those things because they wanted to balance the game. I’m sure in an ideal world they would have known how easy/fast it would be for players to make gold in such ways and they never would have allowed it in the first place. But it’s a learning experience for the devs, and once they see a method allows for gold too easily they’ll remove it in an attempt to balance it to their ideal. It’s unfortunate that there’s a small window of “opportunity” where some players who are around for that duration are able to profit. But you can’t really fault Anet for removing those methods, if their ideal is that they want items to be scarce and difficult to obtain

1. I play for challenges and fun.
a. Challenging does not mean grinding mobs for 6 months (= time-consuming).
b. Challenging does mean ‘something that is hard, but doable and not entirely frustrating’ (= challenging).

2. How does Anet make challenging content?
a. Jumping puzzles
b. Dungeons that require you to use your skills: not stacking against a wall and dpsing
c. Player versus Player

3. Problems with this game?
a. Not enough jumping puzzle, not enough mechanics involved in jumping puzzles, (why are there no interactive traps, why can’t we use grapple-hooks, why…)
b. Dungeons are plain boring
c. PvP is unbalanced: conquest is only game mode, some classes are too strong

ZilentNight.5089:

Loot Gratification is basically the best part of a MMO but that is truly missing from gw2. Now lets go zerg the pavilion and get 0 loot =/

Actually you can get decent loot(gold chest has 8 champ bags fest tokens and tickets) from pavilion if players didnt zerg and sent 10 people to kill each boss at the same time you can do it in 10-15mins. Since the bosses scale with more players zerging each boss 1 at a time is very inefficient way to do things. A big part is due to players incompetence as to why it take ages to clear the event and get the chest.

mrauls.6519:

Loot shouldn’t be why you play, it should be what rewards you while you play

I agree; however, when the player base is not rewarded at a level it feels is fair and balanced for it’s time and effort, then the loot itself becomes the game (as the player base must now seek out ways of gaining loot/wealth in order to stay at least on par with the rate of inflation).

Mirta.5029:

It’s so that people would buy gems and convert them to gold. This is on one of their official advertisement pages.

This is why they do what they do. Players that have a hard time earning gold in-game for what they want will invariably open their pocketbooks to end the pain. This is why the flow of gold and loot into players’ hands is extremely limited and always will be. If you like playing MMOs for loot, there are many that do it better than this one.

Post in the “stop this or that farm” threads all this after the fact helps no one. To not say any thing and to use these forums, on ideal you find bad is to approve of these ideals.

They’re just bringing us in line with the Chinese market’s expectation of gameplay.

US/EU = you’re no longer the main audience.

Izdubar.9540:

They’re just bringing us in line with the Chinese market’s expectation of gameplay.

US/EU = you’re no longer the main audience.

I think that maybe true for all games now.