Guild Wars 2

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

Slows, when traversing a zone without mounts – unacceptable.

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – unacceptable.

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.

These were my thoughts on the new zone. Otherwise, the tree areas were absolutely stunning.

“… and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.”

This is exactly what balance is. It’s the most vital part of literally every MMO ever. You can max your damage, or you can increase your utilities, or you can be durable, or you can break things down with damage over time (i.e. conditions). To be good at one thing requires you to sacrifice another thing. A lack of variability was what caused the Berserker meta to strangle the gameplay for the first 2 years of GW2 before they finally made other builds actually useful.

Indeed. DPS? What do you need that for? Are you in some kind of hurry? Equipping condi cleanse is easy.

But granted, dying is even easier. I run PvE in my rabid WvW build and laugh every single time I see people drop like rocks on bosses that barely tickle you.

Also, the zones HoT and later is supposed to be endgame. They have always been endgame. Its all about bumping up the numbers, more veterans, more champions and more difficult events across the board.

What, you want to go back to baby difficulty zones like Orr?

Yeah.

It’s totally unacceptable that I can’t run M4X|MUM-DPS!11!I|I!!II|||!!!11ONE!!!111|||III!!11!, have awesome stunbreak/quickness/swiftness utility, be condi-proof and a heal-tank at the same time – unacceptable. I paid for this game and therefor should be able to be everything at all the time with all classes without spending another dime – unacceptable…

btw. Can I have your stuff?

There are places where I think CC against the player is overdone. and it can get a bit annoying, but over all I don’t see much of a problem.

Stuns, Knockdowns, Fears – really annoying but acceptable

Slows while traversing a zone without a mount – annoying but acceptable

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – annoying but acceptable

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – its fine to sacrifice DPS in open world. DPS uptime is only needed in raids. However, the rate at which conditions are applied in the new zone are kinda over-powered and need looking at…

My problem with the new zone is the agro range of the mobs. If that could be toned down a bit, it would be much more enjoyable. I dont have a problem with the ice ele’s that freeze you from afar. But icebrood wolfs that see you from miles away and can jump like 20 meters and chill you on landing or corrupted griffons that perma chill you then run away to make you chase them is really really annoying and not fun. You literally cannot stand anywhere in the map without being attacked, except for the kodan pub in the middle. Imo, that could be changed to make the map better.

Vayne.8563:

There are places where I think CC against the player is overdone. and it can get a bit annoying, but over all I don’t see much of a problem.

Every mob in PvE should be like the lord in the SW tower on dbl.

That would be fun.

slamfunction.7462:

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

Slows, when traversing a zone without mounts – unacceptable.

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – unacceptable.

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.

These were my thoughts on the new zone. Otherwise, the tree areas were absolutely stunning.

Their attacks are slow and easily dodge-able. The only noticeable condition there is chill and will unlikely be the cause of your death.

The mob AI in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any video game and is like beating target dummies. Pretty much all of the non event mobs and most of the event mobs die in seconds. To me it just seems like a l2p issue more than a mob issue.

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Nihevil.8024:

slamfunction.7462:

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

Slows, when traversing a zone without mounts – unacceptable.

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – unacceptable.

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.

These were my thoughts on the new zone. Otherwise, the tree areas were absolutely stunning.

Their attacks are slow and easily dodge-able. The only noticeable condition there is chill and will unlikely be the cause of your death.

The mob AI in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any video game and is like beating target dummies. Pretty much all of the non event mobs and most of the event mobs die in seconds. To me it just seems like a l2p issue more than a mob issue.

The AI seems to have gotten worse in the new zone. I frequently notice confused mobs running back and forth trying to decide if they should fight me or not. This also makes them more annoying to fight especially when combined with the chill spam.

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

There is challenge and then there are cheap tricks. A challenging fair fight is good. A fight where the mob uses nothing but hard CCs followed by oneshots would be terrible.

I, for one, like the new map for the very challenges being complained about.

Khisanth.2948:

Nihevil.8024:

slamfunction.7462:

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

Slows, when traversing a zone without mounts – unacceptable.

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – unacceptable.

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.

These were my thoughts on the new zone. Otherwise, the tree areas were absolutely stunning.

Their attacks are slow and easily dodge-able. The only noticeable condition there is chill and will unlikely be the cause of your death.

The mob AI in this game is the worst I have ever seen in any video game and is like beating target dummies. Pretty much all of the non event mobs and most of the event mobs die in seconds. To me it just seems like a l2p issue more than a mob issue.

The AI seems to have gotten worse in the new zone. I frequently notice confused mobs running back and forth trying to decide if they should fight me or not. This also makes them more annoying to fight especially when combined with the chill spam.

I’ve noticed that as well. I even encountered a few ranged Svanir that would just stop attacking and start running around randomly without moving my character a step from where I originally aggro’d it.

This game lets you change your build on the fly. It is intended that you do so in order to overcome challenges. A PvE raid build that maximizes damage assumes the player has support from other players for condition cleansing and healing. However, in solo open world content you are lacking that support. So compensate by changing your build to include additional protection from conditions and CC. Problem solved.

The only problem with new zone is the aggro range seems very large. Not even in HoT is that way.

This seems more like a bug than intentional, is very non-standard.

We better report this in the bug area.

Abount conditions seems fine, i play with glass canon warrior, non condi cleases in any way, and map seems fine. Btw the map can be traveled with glide, nnd those geisers that launch you into the air.

So you can’t traverse a very inhospitable wildernis filled with dragon minions and hostile wildlife while running a sub-optimal class cannon build without any stun breakers or condi cleanse.. and that’s somehow unacceptable?

Thermal tubes and gliding seems fine in Bloodstone Fen and Ember Bay but their placement in Bitterfrost Frontier doesn’t seem to be very good.

Squee.7829:

“… and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.”

This is exactly what balance is. It’s the most vital part of literally every MMO ever. You can max your damage, or you can increase your utilities, or you can be durable, or you can break things down with damage over time (i.e. conditions). To be good at one thing requires you to sacrifice another thing. A lack of variability was what caused the Berserker meta to strangle the gameplay for the first 2 years of GW2 before they finally made other builds actually useful.

He’s right. This game is THE WORST ever for the amount of absurd snares and other annoying cc. Also, there is no cc immunity timer, so a big flaw in game design that permits oh-so-ridiculous chain-cc, not to mention the fact they didn’t bother to code in any kind of resistances AT ALL in the entire game – and this is the only big game to go that route.

Clearly this game was designed to be simple to code and balance, for the purpose of maximizing income while minimizing maintenance and balance issues (which are expensive) – and the actual “fun” and “cool” factors (aka, “fun to play”) are a distant second or third in consideration.

WoW player?
CC immunity is called stability.

Vayne.8563:

There are places where I think CC against the player is overdone. and it can get a bit annoying, but over all I don’t see much of a problem.

This.

What would the point be of the ability to dodge, have stability, stealth, and stun breaks if there were no attacks worth countering or avoiding?

I am not saying that it cannot be overwhelming at times, but overall it seems appropriate to trade dps for defense at times.

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

I’m not a PvE player but the new map has me doing PvE…. Probably because of all the points raised. I enjoy the fat mobs that are challenging to take down solo, especially in the top area of the Bitter Cold section.

I’ve been running around the map in Commanders gear with a Shout Guardian though, haven’t died once or had a single issue.

Spook.5847:

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

Old school AD&D like kick in the door, drop a hold person/monster, or entangle, or any of the myriad other means used to render foes helpless so that they could be readily killed witb minimal fuss? Evards Black Tentacles in particular was devastating.

I would be pushing for a saving throw mechanic vs CC in GW2 if we didnt already have multiple ways to just ignore or avoid it already.

Mak.2657:

WoW player?
CC immunity is called stability.

lol – I’ve been playing games since long before “WoW” was even a gleam in someone’s eye. Try not to be so condescending, as it simply demonstrates ignorance. Use Google, and look up “cc immunity timer DAOC”.

As far as resistances go; that sort of thing is very common in all games but this one. To my eye, cold and/or magic resist would be applicable here. As to the shoddy “boon” system in this game – try comparing it to a Shaman in EQ1.

You kids have fun now.

Spook.5847:

Mak.2657:

WoW player?
CC immunity is called stability.

lol – I’ve been playing games since long before “WoW” was even a gleam in someone’s eye. Try not to be so condescending, as it simply demonstrates ignorance. Use Google, and look up “cc immunity timer DAOC”.

As far as resistances go; that sort of thing is very common in all games but this one. To my eye, cold and/or magic resist would be applicable here. As to the shoddy “boon” system in this game – try comparing it to a Shaman in EQ1.

You kids have fun now.

They also dont have the minutes long cc here like in daoc tho.

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

This 100 percent. I’ve been running my Chrono around Bitterfrost Frontier with a heavy CC build and have enjoyed it immensely. Such a thing is unnecessary in core Tyria and unviable in HoT due to the overabundance of breakbars. I feel BF has just the right degree of challenge for open world content.

So far enjoying the map. This map has the best mix of damage, hitpoints, amount of mobs, CC etc I’ve seen in a pve map yet.

Been playing on a Guardian/DH Meditation/trapper, and found that I had enough condi clear, but felt I wanted a little bit more, just to get rid of some of that Chill. But if I add more condi clear, I’ll lose something else. Love that I actually have to make choices in my build.

If ANet keeps this up, I might finally be able to put WvW on the shelf for good

Ashen.2907:

What would the point be of the ability to dodge, have stability, stealth, and stun breaks if there were no attacks worth countering or avoiding?

This, very much this. Killing mobs with the same rotation all the time while their abilities don’t actually require one to do anything is kind of boring.

My main just entered Bitterfrost for the first time couple hours ago, i must say the map is very well done.

The amount of CC and conditions require better player awareness, also bring some stun breaks. It quickly became one of my favorite map now.

Spook.5847:

Mak.2657:

WoW player?
CC immunity is called stability.

lol – I’ve been playing games since long before “WoW” was even a gleam in someone’s eye. Try not to be so condescending, as it simply demonstrates ignorance. Use Google, and look up “cc immunity timer DAOC”.

Doesn’t matter. I call all such play style (ppl that want more vertical stat progression, other grind staff, and “cc immunity timer”) lovers – “WoW – players”
And as has been said cc immunity is called “stability”. It works not as in wow/daoc/other game, but it works.

The only annoying thing about the new map is that sometimes you can get ice cube’d mid glide/mid air. Apart from that, everything is pretty easy to dodge and I just swap in some utils for chill removal.

Crossaber.8934:

My main just entered Bitterfrost for the first time couple hours ago, i must say the map is very well done.

The amount of CC and conditions require better player awareness, also bring some stun breaks. It quickly became one of my favorite map now.

same, when you become familiar with encounters, you do not have to change even a single trait.

I loathe any skill that takes control away from the player (like immobilize an things like that), but slow and chill are fine. I just swap in some condi cleanse and roll with it.

I run full zerker on my guardian and just play it like Darksouls.

You want to do crazy damage? You’re going to be squishy and you’re going to have to figure out how to survive conditions. Its pretty easy to do on guardian, so I go straight-up Hardmode on him, and I have fun with that.

When I want to be more of a slower-killing brick, I roll out my warrior or my necromancer. My warrior’s rolling around in full Soldiers and my Necro’s rolling around in Rabid on a big herkin’ dotdotdotdotdot build, though I keep a Knight’s set on her as well for when I want to go direct damage wells rather than dot spread.

I wind up playing my guardian the most though, and over the years, I’ve figured out why.

Its not because the class is best for me. I actually kinda like necro better, especially now with reaper greatsword goodness.

Its because I’ve had full zerker on my guardian since forever and its always been hardmode on him. I like that challenge. Yeah, he drops like a rock if I’m not good enough to stay out of the bad and time my dodges and movement well, but that’s part of what’s made me the proficient player I’ve become.

I use everything I’ve got. I switch my build around for more of A or more of B when I need it. I’ve long since gained a deeply intimate understanding of how movement and dodging interacts with incoming damage, as well as which powers on what weapons are best for a given hurdle before me.

I’ve never once sat and studied anything. I’ve just played guardian doing all the things there are to do in the game while wearing full zerker gear.

It was the only way to fly once upon a time, but that’s not true anymore. Now its just fun for me.

You want easy mode? Play a necro, make good use of your shroud, load yourself up with Knight’s and rock up the axe-dagger/greatsword well build with the self heal that eats conditions. If Knight toughness just isn’t enough and you need a big, deep HP pool to go with that mitigation, load up on Soldier gear instead. You’ll be trading crit damage for a deep HP pool, but you gotta feel these things out for yourself and figure out where you’re most comfortable.

Clearly, gearing and building for max DPS and going Darksouls on all the things isn’t your cup of tea.

Gear and build differently and you can really have a powerful voice in your own functional difficulty setting.

I’m not sure I understand most of this thread. The new zone isn’t even remotely difficult. I have 9 characters, one of each class, all in glass gear. The tactic is simple.

Run in.
Aggro as much as possible.
Drop everything in 5s or so.
Pick berries.
Rinse.
Repeat.

The only time you should get caught up and have any difficulty is if you’re trying to run from node to node while ignoring everything. You tend to get tagged enough by chill to be mildly annoying and you’re stuck fighting whether you like it or not. Isn’t this a good thing? Or are you hoping to play an MMO with no enemies to fight? Again, I’m lost as to the complaint.

Perhaps this is a skill issue and not a design issue?
There’s a game called Animal Crossing. It may be more up OP’s alley.

Yeah, the CC is annoying as hell. To be honest, I think CC should be eliminated in PvE and only used in PvP. Quite literally, the only function of CC in PvE is to annoy the crap out of you.

If you ask yourself what CC adds to PvE, it doesn’t add anything except annoyance. No, it doesn’t increase the difficulty of the game. No, it doesn’t make it so you need to use strategy to overcome your enemy. You need to sacrifice skills on your skill bar so you can avoid annoyances… and I don’t like that.

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

I think the system still kinda falls apart when playing with others. I’m not saying it’s directly a bad thing but everything in the open world is more than twice as easy with 2 players compare to playing alone.

Maybe they should try to make areas designed for multiple players (more and harder mobs) while leaving the main “roads” balanced for solo play.

slamfunction.7462:

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

With all the HoT locations the game starts resembling some weird ‘simulator of immobility’ (a Steam user would say). I totally agree with you: it is unacceptable. Too many mobs with crazy amounts of CC [located in long&narrow places (roads, corridors, tunnels, bridges, etc.)]? — no, that doesn’t look like a promising adventure to me. It’s more like an unwanted sado-masochistic experience.

I can only hope that Anet introduced such design by mistake. The vanilla version is all about wide zones with a number of hidden/tricky/dangerous ‘sleeves’, and i’m absolutely in love with that design.

So,

Neox.3497:

Maybe they should try to make areas designed for multiple players (more and harder mobs) while leaving the main “roads” balanced for solo play.

— pretty much THIS.

Spook.5847:

Squee.7829:

“… and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.”

This is exactly what balance is. It’s the most vital part of literally every MMO ever. You can max your damage, or you can increase your utilities, or you can be durable, or you can break things down with damage over time (i.e. conditions). To be good at one thing requires you to sacrifice another thing. A lack of variability was what caused the Berserker meta to strangle the gameplay for the first 2 years of GW2 before they finally made other builds actually useful.

He’s right. This game is THE WORST ever for the amount of absurd snares and other annoying cc. Also, there is no cc immunity timer, so a big flaw in game design that permits oh-so-ridiculous chain-cc, not to mention the fact they didn’t bother to code in any kind of resistances AT ALL in the entire game – and this is the only big game to go that route.

Clearly this game was designed to be simple to code and balance, for the purpose of maximizing income while minimizing maintenance and balance issues (which are expensive) – and the actual “fun” and “cool” factors (aka, “fun to play”) are a distant second or third in consideration.

Actually this is the first time where there IS a CC immunity. You get a warmth buff after breaking out of the ice prisons which prevents you from being frozen again.

Hmm, trying to do all content without willing to adapt…

-Unacceptable….-

Making builds and imporvising so you can do what needs to be done without getting killed all the time, due to inabilities to cope with game mechanics, seems like the way how to play this game. If you need to kill a 20 Million HP enemy in a set time you will need your full DPS build with matching rotation, but when you are running in the world facing 10k HP enemies I think that’s mostly overkill… So change build and traits for running / harvesting /survival if needed and learn how to cope with content not being DPS meta only.

I run a PS condi warrior as main. I drop the torch and take a warhorn when running, speccing for warhorn trait and thus condi removal on warhorn., I replace the banners with shake it off and balanced stance and I’m able to run anywhere with only minor hindrance. I can replace either the weapon for a slight boosted effectiveness in combat or use banners when I think I see a champion somewhere.

Just this minor adapting leaves me in full control.

for cripple/chill condi removal
for immobilize stunbreak, for speed swiftness and
for cc’s acces to stability…

Done. Oh and you’ve got dodges as well.. almost forgot….

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Done. Oh and you’ve got dodges as well.. almost forgot….

Don’t forget flight.
Jump off a ledge and fly. Chill doesn’t slow you in the air. AND you escape combat.

I completely agree with your post and would like to add, dodging in 99% of what you need to not get rooted. On a quick berry run, there’s usually, maybe 2 spots I find myself stuck fighting. The rest of the time, you can dodge your way out of stopping for anything.

Heaven forbid we get “chilled” in the frozen tundra.

Galtrix.7369:

You need to sacrifice skills on your skill bar so you can avoid annoyances… and I don’t like that.

Perhaps I’m crazy, but the need to sacrifice one skill for another and balance out your build is part of game balance. Not having enough of that is part of what caused the zerker meta. If a boss could one-shot a warrior in full zerk and did that attack more often than one could possibly dodge or endure pain, you’d see toughness used as a stat more often. I’m not saying they should do this, I’m simply saying that I disagree. Giving us reason to leave an all-damage spec is absolutely crucial for good game balance.

Phyxius Animus.7356:

Perhaps I’m crazy, but the need to sacrifice one skill for another and balance out your build is part of game balance. Not having enough of that is part of what caused the zerker meta. If a boss could one-shot a warrior in full zerk and did that attack more often than one could possibly dodge or endure pain, you’d see toughness used as a stat more often. I’m not saying they should do this, I’m simply saying that I disagree. Giving us reason to leave an all-damage spec is absolutely crucial for good game balance.

Toughness might get more use if they stop being idiots with the mob design. Getting hit for 27k (non-critical) damage with ~2900 armor doesn’t make toughness very convincing. If it crits then the only one that might survive that is a warrior in sentinel armor assuming they were at full health to begin with. Then there is still condition damage which renders that completely useless.

Your suggestion would affect people relying on passive defenses than people using berserker gear. Dead mobs deal no damage but characters with lower DPS will have to fight for longer periods which means they will have to take a lot more of those frequent and harder hits.

I read the OP’s post like…

https://youtu.be/Oqa9tKarkNA?t=13s

Khisanth.2948:

Phyxius Animus.7356:

Perhaps I’m crazy, but the need to sacrifice one skill for another and balance out your build is part of game balance. Not having enough of that is part of what caused the zerker meta. If a boss could one-shot a warrior in full zerk and did that attack more often than one could possibly dodge or endure pain, you’d see toughness used as a stat more often. I’m not saying they should do this, I’m simply saying that I disagree. Giving us reason to leave an all-damage spec is absolutely crucial for good game balance.

Toughness might get more use if they stop being idiots with the mob design. Getting hit for 27k (non-critical) damage with ~2900 armor doesn’t make toughness very convincing. If it crits then the only one that might survive that is a warrior in sentinel armor assuming they were at full health to begin with. Then there is still condition damage which renders that completely useless.

Your suggestion would affect people relying on passive defenses than people using berserker gear. Dead mobs deal no damage but characters with lower DPS will have to fight for longer periods which means they will have to take a lot more of those frequent and harder hits.

Toughness needs some other use for active defense. Govern endurance regen or something.

Phyxius Animus.7356:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Done. Oh and you’ve got dodges as well.. almost forgot….

Don’t forget flight.
Jump off a ledge and fly. Chill doesn’t slow you in the air. AND you escape combat.

I completely agree with your post and would like to add, dodging in 99% of what you need to not get rooted. On a quick berry run, there’s usually, maybe 2 spots I find myself stuck fighting. The rest of the time, you can dodge your way out of stopping for anything.

Heaven forbid we get “chilled” in the frozen tundra.

Galtrix.7369:

You need to sacrifice skills on your skill bar so you can avoid annoyances… and I don’t like that.

Perhaps I’m crazy, but the need to sacrifice one skill for another and balance out your build is part of game balance. Not having enough of that is part of what caused the zerker meta. If a boss could one-shot a warrior in full zerk and did that attack more often than one could possibly dodge or endure pain, you’d see toughness used as a stat more often. I’m not saying they should do this, I’m simply saying that I disagree. Giving us reason to leave an all-damage spec is absolutely crucial for good game balance.

Yes, I completely agree with you. My point is that CC in PvE is simply an annoyance and serves no other purpose other than to annoy. And if you want to avoid that annoyance, you need to sacrifice skills in order to do so. If CC actually made the game difficult, then I would be totally fine with sacrificing some skill slots to avoid it.

As it stands, CC does not make the game more difficult and literally only delays your travel time, which bugs the crap out of me.

Galtrix.7369:

Phyxius Animus.7356:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Done. Oh and you’ve got dodges as well.. almost forgot….

Don’t forget flight.
Jump off a ledge and fly. Chill doesn’t slow you in the air. AND you escape combat.

I completely agree with your post and would like to add, dodging in 99% of what you need to not get rooted. On a quick berry run, there’s usually, maybe 2 spots I find myself stuck fighting. The rest of the time, you can dodge your way out of stopping for anything.

Heaven forbid we get “chilled” in the frozen tundra.

Galtrix.7369:

You need to sacrifice skills on your skill bar so you can avoid annoyances… and I don’t like that.

Perhaps I’m crazy, but the need to sacrifice one skill for another and balance out your build is part of game balance. Not having enough of that is part of what caused the zerker meta. If a boss could one-shot a warrior in full zerk and did that attack more often than one could possibly dodge or endure pain, you’d see toughness used as a stat more often. I’m not saying they should do this, I’m simply saying that I disagree. Giving us reason to leave an all-damage spec is absolutely crucial for good game balance.

Yes, I completely agree with you. My point is that CC in PvE is simply an annoyance and serves no other purpose other than to annoy. And if you want to avoid that annoyance, you need to sacrifice skills in order to do so. If CC actually made the game difficult, then I would be totally fine with sacrificing some skill slots to avoid it.

As it stands, CC does not make the game more difficult and literally only delays your travel time, which bugs the crap out of me.

Here is the crutch though: if you make the game so hard to the point where cc is so hard to you absolutely need to run stability then players complain that they need to run a specific build to survive. As it stands now it pretty much boils down to skill: if you are experienced, if you understand the patterns of mobs, you will run with barely any stability and/or condi cleanse because you could just some blocks, press your evade bar or apply some blind, while those who struggle can take some cleanses, stability at the expense of some damage.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

Let me see if I understand you correctly, you’re playing with zero stunbreakers and no condi clear what so ever because “LOL NEED MY DPS UTILITIES BRUH!” and you’re here to complain about stuns and condis. Don’t worry everyone is going to take you very seriously.

Yeah that op made me cringe so hard. He must not play wvw because there are so many players that have all of their defense tied to passive traits or simply don’t have any at all. Then cry that stuff is op/under powered. It’s kinda sad.

Ashen.2907:

Spook.5847:

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

Old school AD&D like kick in the door, drop a hold person/monster, or entangle, or any of the myriad other means used to render foes helpless so that they could be readily killed witb minimal fuss? Evards Black Tentacles in particular was devastating.

I would be pushing for a saving throw mechanic vs CC in GW2 if we didnt already have multiple ways to just ignore or avoid it already.

Who was your DM, Gomer Pyle? Stupid monsters maybe, but most of our “dungeons” were outdoor adventures involving smart, powerful opponents that often beat us to a draw, or that we had to flee from (if we could). We also had to start all of our characters from level 1.

The exception to the non-dungeon theme I remember best is the spaceship buried in a hillside or something, but you still couldn’t do the cheese plays you’re making out here.

This game is definitely oversimplified, and that leads to overuse of poor game mechanics as the OP and several more in this thread have stated. We definitely need dedicated resists, saving throws, and more customization of gear and builds so that simply = more fun. If you think it is more fun to play it the way it is, then don’t change anything, but really you sound like every other game defender on every other forum ever. Even the people on ArcheAge ;D

All of the changes they’ve made have mostly just made an already threadbare game worse instead of expanding player choices and abilities more. No wonder they keep releasing content in dribs and drabs to keep people trickling in.

One of the things I do enjoy about this game (as in most games, I guess, but especially this one) are the events, and so I am looking forward to wintersday. I do hope they expand it a bit and that they don’t nerf the gifts like they did last year

Clone.4157:

Ashen.2907:

Spook.5847:

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

Old school AD&D like kick in the door, drop a hold person/monster, or entangle, or any of the myriad other means used to render foes helpless so that they could be readily killed witb minimal fuss? Evards Black Tentacles in particular was devastating.

I would be pushing for a saving throw mechanic vs CC in GW2 if we didnt already have multiple ways to just ignore or avoid it already.

Who was your DM, Gomer Pyle? Stupid monsters maybe, but most of our “dungeons” were outdoor adventures involving smart, powerful opponents that often beat us to a draw, or that we had to flee from (if we could). We also had to start all of our characters from level 1.

The exception to the non-dungeon theme I remember best is the spaceship buried in a hillside or something, but you still couldn’t do the cheese plays you’re making out here.

This game is definitely oversimplified, and that leads to overuse of poor game mechanics as the OP and several more in this thread have stated. We definitely need dedicated resists, saving throws, and more customization of gear and builds so that simply = more fun. If you think it is more fun to play it the way it is, then don’t change anything, but really you sound like every other game defender on every other forum ever. Even the people on ArcheAge ;D

All of the changes they’ve made have mostly just made an already threadbare game worse instead of expanding player choices and abilities more. No wonder they keep releasing content in dribs and drabs to keep people trickling in.

One of the things I do enjoy about this game (as in most games, I guess, but especially this one) are the events, and so I am looking forward to wintersday. I do hope they expand it a bit and that they don’t nerf the gifts like they did last year

If your DM, with one mind, a single point of view, consistently out thought the combined efforts of an entire party (4 – 8 players?) to that degree kudos to him (and perhaps shame on the players).

Of course any DM could just load up his encounters with foes simply beyond the party’s capability to overcome, but that is something else entirely.

I am not a defender of the game. It has entirely too many severe problems (IMO) for that. I do hold to my belief that saving throws vs CC are not appropriate for a system with an existing mechanic for defeating incoming CC controlled entirely by the player.

I do miss the differing damage types, with mob vulnerabilities and resistances to each.

I do agree, as I have myself stated in other threads previously, that this game is oversimplified. Ive used the term dumbed down more than once.

Ashen.2907:

Clone.4157:

Ashen.2907:

Spook.5847:

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

Old school AD&D like kick in the door, drop a hold person/monster, or entangle, or any of the myriad other means used to render foes helpless so that they could be readily killed witb minimal fuss? Evards Black Tentacles in particular was devastating.

I would be pushing for a saving throw mechanic vs CC in GW2 if we didnt already have multiple ways to just ignore or avoid it already.

Who was your DM, Gomer Pyle? Stupid monsters maybe, but most of our “dungeons” were outdoor adventures involving smart, powerful opponents that often beat us to a draw, or that we had to flee from (if we could). We also had to start all of our characters from level 1.

The exception to the non-dungeon theme I remember best is the spaceship buried in a hillside or something, but you still couldn’t do the cheese plays you’re making out here.

This game is definitely oversimplified, and that leads to overuse of poor game mechanics as the OP and several more in this thread have stated. We definitely need dedicated resists, saving throws, and more customization of gear and builds so that simply = more fun. If you think it is more fun to play it the way it is, then don’t change anything, but really you sound like every other game defender on every other forum ever. Even the people on ArcheAge ;D

All of the changes they’ve made have mostly just made an already threadbare game worse instead of expanding player choices and abilities more. No wonder they keep releasing content in dribs and drabs to keep people trickling in.

One of the things I do enjoy about this game (as in most games, I guess, but especially this one) are the events, and so I am looking forward to wintersday. I do hope they expand it a bit and that they don’t nerf the gifts like they did last year

If your DM, with one mind, a single point of view, consistently out thought the combined efforts of an entire party (4 – 8 players?) to that degree kudos to him (and perhaps shame on the players).

Of course any DM could just load up his encounters with foes simply beyond the party’s capability to overcome, but that is something else entirely.

I am not a defender of the game. It has entirely too many severe problems (IMO) for that. I do hold to my belief that saving throws vs CC are not appropriate for a system with an existing mechanic for defeating incoming CC controlled entirely by the player.

I do miss the differing damage types, with mob vulnerabilities and resistances to each.

I do agree, as I have myself stated in other threads previously, that this game is oversimplified. Ive used the term dumbed down more than once.

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.