Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

Clone.4157:

Ashen.2907:

Spook.5847:

Hannelore.8153:

For over three years we had to put up with mobs that don’t move and could barely cast a single skill if they had any at all, and would generally die easily to a single, undergeared player with almost no build pressing their #1 button.

That is what is unacceptible.

What we have now is just the very beginning of what we should have, challenge. Though the mob AI still has a long way to go, it is better.

If you don’t like it ,don’t play video games.. its what they’re for.

The only real gripe I have is that in Bloodstone Fen it seems like mobs overswarm you and have too much health compared to the other newer maps. But every map seems to have gimmicks like this, such as Auric Basin having too many chargey things, and Tangled Depths being too excessive on the Chak goop.

I think this is kind of how ArenaNet intends it ?

Are you saying that simple, cheap, “gimmicky” things is all they can do in this game?

I think the people who run this thing need to sit down at a table every night and play some old school AD&D for about 6 months. Maybe that would stimulate some imagination as to mechanics, and “challenge” – which doesn’t have to be annoying, doesn’t mean nerfing the abilities of the players, or stacking endless gathering chores. – just interesting. Right now, the way they treat everything, a guy spends every waking moment running around collecting stuff because of the insane amount of mats to make anything, etc (or trying to get a map together to do events – another greatly flawed system – the least they could do is increase map capacity).

But good AI cost money to program…and there’s no way to extract profit from it as you can with artwork.

Old school AD&D like kick in the door, drop a hold person/monster, or entangle, or any of the myriad other means used to render foes helpless so that they could be readily killed witb minimal fuss? Evards Black Tentacles in particular was devastating.

I would be pushing for a saving throw mechanic vs CC in GW2 if we didnt already have multiple ways to just ignore or avoid it already.

Who was your DM, Gomer Pyle? Stupid monsters maybe, but most of our “dungeons” were outdoor adventures involving smart, powerful opponents that often beat us to a draw, or that we had to flee from (if we could). We also had to start all of our characters from level 1.

The exception to the non-dungeon theme I remember best is the spaceship buried in a hillside or something, but you still couldn’t do the cheese plays you’re making out here.

This game is definitely oversimplified, and that leads to overuse of poor game mechanics as the OP and several more in this thread have stated. We definitely need dedicated resists, saving throws, and more customization of gear and builds so that simply = more fun. If you think it is more fun to play it the way it is, then don’t change anything, but really you sound like every other game defender on every other forum ever. Even the people on ArcheAge ;D

All of the changes they’ve made have mostly just made an already threadbare game worse instead of expanding player choices and abilities more. No wonder they keep releasing content in dribs and drabs to keep people trickling in.

One of the things I do enjoy about this game (as in most games, I guess, but especially this one) are the events, and so I am looking forward to wintersday. I do hope they expand it a bit and that they don’t nerf the gifts like they did last year

If your DM, with one mind, a single point of view, consistently out thought the combined efforts of an entire party (4 – 8 players?) to that degree kudos to him (and perhaps shame on the players).

Of course any DM could just load up his encounters with foes simply beyond the party’s capability to overcome, but that is something else entirely.

I am not a defender of the game. It has entirely too many severe problems (IMO) for that. I do hold to my belief that saving throws vs CC are not appropriate for a system with an existing mechanic for defeating incoming CC controlled entirely by the player.

I do miss the differing damage types, with mob vulnerabilities and resistances to each.

I do agree, as I have myself stated in other threads previously, that this game is oversimplified. Ive used the term dumbed down more than once.

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.

Clone.4157:

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.

I loved AD&D, no denigration intended. The game I referred to as having, “severe problems,” was GW2. I enjoy it, it is a good game, but also very flawed.

Clone.4157:

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.

Success and failure shouldn’t come down to luck of the roll. That might be fine for pen and paper but not for a video game.

Reading this thread, it would seem a lot of people need to take a look at there builds. The game is no way as hard as some of you are making out. Really take a good look at your traits and figure out where you are going wrong.

Excelsior.

Two people figured my main problem out: Super annoying CC in narrow spaces, corridors and bridges.

One of the first HoT annoyances was a steep, winded walkway up to a rock/boulder that lead to a bridge. That path was filled with like 10 caterpillar things that knocked me back and forth. I literally could not proceed there. That was one of the moments where I really yelled “Bad game design!!” at the screen and shut it down. That was on my Engineer (with Scrapper being unlocked but I hate that “Elite” trait and the Stilson wrenches – but no skill points to spend in so far as I just entered the jungle).

Not sure how that works out with thief / daredevil, but being bounced back and forth is not a challenge at all. Especially when every (!) thing is attacking you; I’d rather have mobs that decide not to attack you when you’re posing a threat to them (e.g. comparing your stats to a mob’s thresholds – numbers too high? Better don’t attack the player).

Or projectile-blocking enemies. As Engineer, trolololol. Until I could come close to them, I died already. But oh well, that is probably another “challenge”, a “git gut” problem or “trait misconception”.

Zedek.8932:

Excelsior.

Two people figured my main problem out: Super annoying CC in narrow spaces, corridors and bridges.

One of the first HoT annoyances was a steep, winded walkway up to a rock/boulder that lead to a bridge. That path was filled with like 10 caterpillar things that knocked me back and forth. I literally could not proceed there. That was one of the moments where I really yelled “Bad game design!!” at the screen and shut it down. That was on my Engineer (with Scrapper being unlocked but I hate that “Elite” trait and the Stilson wrenches – but no skill points to spend in so far as I just entered the jungle).

Not sure how that works out with thief / daredevil, but being bounced back and forth is not a challenge at all. Especially when every (!) thing is attacking you; I’d rather have mobs that decide not to attack you when you’re posing a threat to them (e.g. comparing your stats to a mob’s thresholds – numbers too high? Better don’t attack the player).

Or projectile-blocking enemies. As Engineer, trolololol. Until I could come close to them, I died already. But oh well, that is probably another “challenge”, a “git gut” problem or “trait misconception”.

And as an engineer, you don’t have access to blinds, you have no invisibility skills, you can’t block attacks, you have no stunbreacks, you have no blocks. Can’t you even time your dodges to evade the cc skills of these caterpillars ? Can’t you even use the hammer skill number 2 or 3 (forgot) that does a leap attack to evade? I found it really hard to believe that.

Nihevil.8024:

Their attacks are slow and easily dodge-able.

This. I don’t understand what the OP’s problem is other than being too lazy to use the tools the game provides in order to adept to the current area they are traversing.

Zedek.8932:

Excelsior.

Two people figured my main problem out: Super annoying CC in narrow spaces, corridors and bridges.

One of the first HoT annoyances was a steep, winded walkway up to a rock/boulder that lead to a bridge. That path was filled with like 10 caterpillar things that knocked me back and forth. I literally could not proceed there. That was one of the moments where I really yelled “Bad game design!!” at the screen and shut it down. That was on my Engineer (with Scrapper being unlocked but I hate that “Elite” trait and the Stilson wrenches – but no skill points to spend in so far as I just entered the jungle).

Not sure how that works out with thief / daredevil, but being bounced back and forth is not a challenge at all. Especially when every (!) thing is attacking you; I’d rather have mobs that decide not to attack you when you’re posing a threat to them (e.g. comparing your stats to a mob’s thresholds – numbers too high? Better don’t attack the player).

Or projectile-blocking enemies. As Engineer, trolololol. Until I could come close to them, I died already. But oh well, that is probably another “challenge”, a “git gut” problem or “trait misconception”.

I have gone through HoT a dozen times for both the story and world completion but I can’t think of any area like that unless you thought tendrils were catepillars during prisoners of the dragon but you were supposed to use grenades for that.

Inclines are a fairly bad design element in GW2 mostly because the game engine doesn’t handle them very well.

Zedek.8932:

Excelsior.

Two people figured my main problem out: Super annoying CC in narrow spaces, corridors and bridges.

One of the first HoT annoyances was a steep, winded walkway up to a rock/boulder that lead to a bridge. That path was filled with like 10 caterpillar things that knocked me back and forth. I literally could not proceed there. That was one of the moments where I really yelled “Bad game design!!” at the screen and shut it down. That was on my Engineer (with Scrapper being unlocked but I hate that “Elite” trait and the Stilson wrenches – but no skill points to spend in so far as I just entered the jungle).

Not sure how that works out with thief / daredevil, but being bounced back and forth is not a challenge at all. Especially when every (!) thing is attacking you; I’d rather have mobs that decide not to attack you when you’re posing a threat to them (e.g. comparing your stats to a mob’s thresholds – numbers too high? Better don’t attack the player).

Or projectile-blocking enemies. As Engineer, trolololol. Until I could come close to them, I died already. But oh well, that is probably another “challenge”, a “git gut” problem or “trait misconception”.

Yes, well if you have a problem with that on the only class that can have 2-3 stacks of perma stability then no one can help you.

Zedek.8932:

Excelsior.

Two people figured my main problem out: Super annoying CC in narrow spaces, corridors and bridges.

One of the first HoT annoyances was a steep, winded walkway up to a rock/boulder that lead to a bridge. That path was filled with like 10 caterpillar things that knocked me back and forth. I literally could not proceed there. That was one of the moments where I really yelled “Bad game design!!” at the screen and shut it down. That was on my Engineer (with Scrapper being unlocked but I hate that “Elite” trait and the Stilson wrenches – but no skill points to spend in so far as I just entered the jungle).

Not sure how that works out with thief / daredevil, but being bounced back and forth is not a challenge at all. Especially when every (!) thing is attacking you; I’d rather have mobs that decide not to attack you when you’re posing a threat to them (e.g. comparing your stats to a mob’s thresholds – numbers too high? Better don’t attack the player).

Or projectile-blocking enemies. As Engineer, trolololol. Until I could come close to them, I died already. But oh well, that is probably another “challenge”, a “git gut” problem or “trait misconception”.

Your kidding right?

slamfunction.7462:

Stuns, knock downs, fears – unacceptable.

Slows, when traversing a zone without mounts – unacceptable.

More mobs (w/Slows) packed into an area that you must traverse, and would die if tried to clear – unacceptable.

Conditions, without enough tools to remove them, while playing solo, and without sacrificing abilities needed to DPS – unacceptable.

These were my thoughts on the new zone. Otherwise, the tree areas were absolutely stunning.

Th constant spam of chill and freezing in the new zone is just a cheezy trick that reduces any “fun” value of the zone by leaps and bounds for most people. I ran through the story, but wont bother playing there any further due to the sheer petty annoyance of it. Those who find it “challenging” need to get out more, or find some hobbies besides gaming.

The immunity timer is a good idea, and should apply to ALL cc for a certain period (like 30 seconds). So if you get hit with any kind of cc, you should be immune to ALL cc effects for that time.

And also dont forget:

Almost instant respawns of killed mobs;

Horrible targeting AI;

Inability to customize the UI, as in, add hotkeys and instant-use items from inventory;

The lack of a proper “hate list” for mobs in this game – in the new zone that is shown by the idea that a guy can half kill a pack of wolves, then run over to Berry Picker 002 and have all the wolves suddenly aggro Mr. 002, so just plain stupid.

I suppose y’all think that’s really “challenge”? Do you tie your wrists and ankles together before going swimming too?

Khisanth.2948:

Clone.4157:

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.

Success and failure shouldn’t come down to luck of the roll. That might be fine for pen and paper but not for a video game.

They are talking about saving throws, variation in damage dealt or taken, chances to be attacked, and stuff like that. That sort of variation during play in GW2 would really make this game a lot more fun, I agree. We used to have vestigial traits in GW2 like that (ferocity, charm, and another I think), and occasionally they would determine the course of an encounter.

Another thing that is missing from this game is a real faction system. Being able to earn faction with any group in the game is really a fun angle to develop, but somewhat complicated too. EQ1 had one of the very best faction systems, and I wish more games would copy it.

Trianna.2789:

Khisanth.2948:

Clone.4157:

Agreeing to disagree on specifics is fair enough – any denigration of AD&D won’t be tolerated, though

Our DM took weeks (at least) to prepare his campaigns. The throw of the dice controls all often enough, though, to always make things fun.

That just doesn’t happen in GW2.

Success and failure shouldn’t come down to luck of the roll. That might be fine for pen and paper but not for a video game.

They are talking about saving throws, variation in damage dealt or taken, chances to be attacked, and stuff like that. That sort of variation during play in GW2 would really make this game a lot more fun, I agree.

Saving throws are not relevant since that is exactly the type of thing that shouldn’t depend on RNG. That should all come down to the player using the right skills at the right time … or not.

Getting attacked or not should be based on positioning for always hostile mobs or other actions for non-hostile mobs. There is a devourer queen for one of the hearts in Iron Marches that will attack you if you pick up the eggs.

We used to have vestigial traits in GW2 like that (ferocity, charm, and another I think), and occasionally they would determine the course of an encounter.

Those things never had any impact on combat. They just gave you different dialog options when talking certain NPCs.

Another thing that is missing from this game is a real faction system. Being able to earn faction with any group in the game is really a fun angle to develop, but somewhat complicated too. EQ1 had one of the very best faction systems, and I wish more games would copy it.

I fail to see how that has anything to do with the current topic.

It’s alright when you get hit by a stun that you could have avoided or whatever, and you didn’t bring stunbreaker or stability so your punishment is 2-3 seconds of disable.

BUT, imho it is actually unacceptable when you aggro 2-3 of the same mob, sometimes unavoidable because they are placed in close proximity. What happens is the AI of the monster will wait until the exact milisecond that the first stun wears off (if their stun has a cast time they will even precast it to time it perfectly) and stun you again for the same timer, and possibly a third or fourth time depending on how many are around you, and there’s no possible way to avoid it for those consecutive times.

More that once I’ve been chain stunned for longer than 10 seconds and imho that’s the kind of situation that just makes you want to turn off the game.

Esquilax.3491:

It’s alright when you get hit by a stun that you could have avoided or whatever, and you didn’t bring stunbreaker or stability so your punishment is 2-3 seconds of disable.

BUT, imho it is actually unacceptable when you aggro 2-3 of the same mob, sometimes unavoidable because they are placed in close proximity. What happens is the AI of the monster will wait until the exact milisecond that the first stun wears off (if their stun has a cast time they will even precast it to time it perfectly) and stun you again for the same timer, and possibly a third or fourth time depending on how many are around you, and there’s no possible way to avoid it for those consecutive times.

More that once I’ve been chain stunned for longer than 10 seconds and imho that’s the kind of situation that just makes you want to turn off the game.

Ayup.

Or you run into situations where the hard-CC is the monster’s primary attack. So you can skillfully dodge the first and second, maybe block the third if it’s a skill on your bar, and Stability a fourth if you’re a class that gets it.
Unless it’s a charge attack, then the block decays and Stability gets chipped away, and the next step or two of that charge also carries the hard-CC, so you get downed anyway. And by then, the Stability skill is on a 40-second cooldown, your dodge is 5 seconds from recharging, so all you can do is get run over again. (Or if you’re lucky, you have time to hop onto a patch of terrain that stops charging/rolling attacks without resetting the mob. :\)

There needs to be a natural hard-CC resistance after suffering one, just to prevent chain-stun spams.

Side note relevant to the latest Living Story chapter, if I’m carrying a kittening Flame of Koda, how am I still getting ice-blocked? The mastery is almost utterly useless.

Well, to be fair, there ARE those veteran ice elemental mobs usually sitting near the bounce mushrooms (and in a couple of patrols) that seem to aggro and be able to shoot a long chill time ice projectile from MUCH farther than any other enemy I’ve ever seen.

The number of times in Bitterfrost that I don’t even see them coming because they’re behind me and assumed way out of aggro range is beyond counting.

And there was that update that rectified enemies shooting at gliding players with something along the lines of 10k range or whatever.

I think there is a kernel of validity to the OP’s concern. The majority of the playerbase has likely been in the Zerk meta for a long time, and all of a sudden these new areas completely flip the paradigm. I’m not saying that players shouldn’t adjust, but ANet could do better at transitioning areas, especially when you consider the cost of entire new sets of gear for the majority of players.

Kaleban.9834:

Well, to be fair, there ARE those veteran ice elemental mobs usually sitting near the bounce mushrooms (and in a couple of patrols) that seem to aggro and be able to shoot a long chill time ice projectile from MUCH farther than any other enemy I’ve ever seen.

The number of times in Bitterfrost that I don’t even see them coming because they’re behind me and assumed way out of aggro range is beyond counting.

And there was that update that rectified enemies shooting at gliding players with something along the lines of 10k range or whatever.

Out of everything in the zone, those stupid elementals are the one thing that made me so frothing mad. Absurd aggro and casting range, and the mastery torch doesn’t protect against getting frozen. And if you get hit by that attack, it ruins the torch because the freeze co-opts your weapon bar.

Even the overpowered Svanir/Kodan weren’t as rage-inducing.

I think there is a kernel of validity to the OP’s concern. The majority of the playerbase has likely been in the Zerk meta for a long time, and all of a sudden these new areas completely flip the paradigm. I’m not saying that players shouldn’t adjust, but ANet could do better at transitioning areas, especially when you consider the cost of entire new sets of gear for the majority of players.

I think it goes deeper than zerk-meta. The devs seem fond of the idea that “hard-CC = difficulty” and frequently punish players with it. Enemy attacks are often spaced far apart, so for hard-CC to be useful, we have to suffer 3-5 second stuns, which is a long time to be sitting at the keyboard doing nothing in an MMO.

And then there’s Stability. If you can see it coming, it’s a good boon to pop up, but the cooldowns are so long, using it often feels like a waste, especially when many post-classic mobs have basic attacks with daze/stun/knockback. By having these kinds of lazy designs, they actually discourage Stability use, because “why bother?”

I generally dont feel punished by CC, though chained by multiple mobs can be a royal PITA. I feel rewarded for paying sufficient attention to avoid the CC, or for having the foresight to bring a stun break, etc. I feel punished when that foresight, that attention to mob action, etc are rendered worthless, wasted effort, by encounters where they serve no purpose.

Kaleban.9834:

I think there is a kernel of validity to the OP’s concern. The majority of the playerbase has likely been in the Zerk meta for a long time, and all of a sudden these new areas completely flip the paradigm. I’m not saying that players shouldn’t adjust, but ANet could do better at transitioning areas, especially when you consider the cost of entire new sets of gear for the majority of players.

Actually high damage is still better … dead thing don’t freeze or chill you either.

Get frozen -> break out -> get warmth buff -> fail to kill mob before warmth wears off -> get frozen again -> …