Guild Wars 2

NetherDiver.6079:

Arius.7031:

I like the end game, just wish there were more rewards (skins/ranks), and that current rewards actually did something (badges don’t get me anything I actually want, karma is only really useful for Legendaries or temple gear).

WvW
SPvP
3 world bosses
2 80 zones
-Straight up mob farming
-Dynamic event farming
-Resource farming
25 explorable mode paths
Crafting
Many unique achievements

I love the variety of the end game in this. I just wish they had more rewards. Although, I think people would be more excited if they knew about the Mystic Forge weapons that—in some cases—looking nearly as flashy as Legendaries. Honestly, they almost have too much endgame—it can be hard to get a specific dungeon party!

Forgot about the Mystic Weapons. I’d still prefer a halfway point between Exotic gear and Legendary gear.

If you count the temple bosses in Orr, there are more than 3 world bosses.

We definitely need more armor skins, I was hoping that each Orrian temple had a different armor set. Also, chests need to drop mini pets/crafting materials/mounts (seriously)

They really should give them their own classification. They really are, for all intents and purposes, half way between exotic and legendary. They’re extremely difficult to get (the really cool ones at least) but very possible compared to Legendaries.

Arius.7031:

NetherDiver.6079:

Arius.7031:

I like the end game, just wish there were more rewards (skins/ranks), and that current rewards actually did something (badges don’t get me anything I actually want, karma is only really useful for Legendaries or temple gear).

WvW
SPvP
3 world bosses
2 80 zones
-Straight up mob farming
-Dynamic event farming
-Resource farming
25 explorable mode paths
Crafting
Many unique achievements

I love the variety of the end game in this. I just wish they had more rewards. Although, I think people would be more excited if they knew about the Mystic Forge weapons that—in some cases—looking nearly as flashy as Legendaries. Honestly, they almost have too much endgame—it can be hard to get a specific dungeon party!

Forgot about the Mystic Weapons. I’d still prefer a halfway point between Exotic gear and Legendary gear.

If you count the temple bosses in Orr, there are more than 3 world bosses.

We definitely need more armor skins, I was hoping that each Orrian temple had a different armor set. Also, chests need to drop mini pets/crafting materials/mounts (seriously)

They really should give them their own classification. They really are, for all intents and purposes, half way between exotic and legendary. They’re extremely difficult to get (the really cool ones at least) but very possible compared to Legendaries.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Claymore

50 SP’s and 30 Mystic Coins aren’t too time consuming to get. Compared to all the stuff you need for a legendary anyway.

That’s not really the type of was referring to. That one’s cool, but not amazing (you can get one with red lightning for doing CoE). I was more referring to these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire%27s_Essence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Mists

Those make me melt…

Lande.5782:

…..The only thing this game is missing would be the gear treadmill, which to many people is a great thing.

And any serious guild competition is missing as well, GvG like in GW1 for Guild Halls. I think it is a big miss. In general guilds are not really needed for anything.

Other than that I am ok with the end game. Btw, you need to do many times a specific dungeon to get a specific gear. Isn’t that a gear treadmill?

There is no End game, just a big game with a ton of content. 500 hours clocked without hardly touching Spvp, WvW or dungeons.

i think what @Rainfall mentioned is what i’m getting at. does a game have to have “end-game” content, according to your own expectations, for it to be a good game? there is so much to do. it’s fun. it’s, supposedly, ever-changing. it’s freaking gorgeous.

o rmaybe i am just too hung up on the term “end-game” that people keep throwing around.

nerva.7940:

anyone else having a blast endgame?

No. Actually I am not playing at all anymore.

For PvE players the Endgame is horrible. You grind like in other MMOs except that while in other MMOs the grind has a purpose (gear to become better), the only reason you do grind is GW2 is, at best, a skin which often doesn’t even look all that good.

Some people might find it fun to farm vistas or to events in itself, but I, and I guess most people, want a reason to farm things. That can be getter gear from drops, it can be story (hard to do during endgame) or things like faction to unlock items or even other quests.
In most big MMOs the endgame is also tiered. You do X, then Y unlocks. That is missing in GW2. When you hit 80 all you have left is doing the excat same thing you did during leveling.

And this is why the GW2 endgame fails hard.

I am loving the game, have been meaning to start an alt and enjoying the story of the and exploration of the other zones (only fully did 7 so far) but I just can stop playing my main 400+ hours. There is always a goal to work toward. Right now I am focusing on the looks. Legendaries take way too much work so thats best left for the far futur while I earn the required stuff playing casually so in the meantime I am going for named exotics. Want to get Corrupted Staff, The Crossing (successfully farmed the halloween materials) and Royal Ascalonian Staff. Then its off to Armor.

What I love about endgame is that its not required first and formost, that means I can just play at my own pace if I get bored working towards an Item I can just switch to something else with no penality or without putting my guild at a disadvantage (when compared to games with gear progression) I also love that the game allows me to play any content I want to get the Items I want. If I need gold or Karma I can play in a starter zone if I want and still get them, I might get a little less then playing in a level 80 zone when everything is considered but if I end up having more fun why should that be an issue? I am not being put at a disadvantage and have no reason to hurry.

I also love how the game seem to be introducing new content each month. Such variety does a lot to keep the game fresh and provide long term replayablity for me.

Also looking forward in the future to guild halls and housing !

I’m running the dungeons I like, I play WvW when I want, I do events in Orr when I feel like it and have fun overall. As far as end-game goes, I love it. I’m happy it’s not raid grinding.

I don’t know what’s wrong with having fun, but as far as end-game goes I do like it.

I do like GW2, but am starting to be able to see the problems from a game design standpoint. GW2 tries to be a little of everything, master of none.

Jumping puzzles and mini-dungeons. These are pretty cool, though really hard with a Charr character. Some kind of circle on the ground or something would help with hitbox placement identification. Overall a cool concept, but mostly a one time event. I love it however as an idea and they did a great job with it. Fun times, reminds me sometimes of old games back in the atari days with hidden doors, invisible platforms, or crazy falling penalties. Love it. Not a lot of replay value.

Exploring. I have 100% world completion, this was quite fun and something I think they did right. I enjoyed it all the way, even the frustration of figuring out I had to enter instances to get some of them. Never thought of that originally. The 100% reward was weird. “Congratulations on your grind for 100% map completion! As a reward, you get an item for an even bigger grind!” Still was a good time overall and something they did well.

Dyes and item appearances as a pasttime is also pretty cool if you are into that sort of thing. Not dissing it but it’s easy to use and setup pretty well. Tells you something when black is the most expensive dye.

WvW is especially… odd. I remember hating this type of mechanic in Warhammer Online, I always called it player vs. door. I’m really put off by how much running is involved. Takes minutes to get to the fight, then as a warrior all I can really do is throw crap off a wall at people I can’t see or fight a door. Here I am a big bad axe weilding Charr warrior, savagely attacking a… wooden door. Not a huge mystery why the masses didn’t flock to this, they hated it in Warhammer online as well. This and the inability to see (the sometimes roving stacks of 50) someones standing right in front of you makes this largely a waste of time I think for most casual people. I had a terrible time getting 100% map completion because the “red” server was dominating WvW for many weeks. In some cases we had next to no WvW nodes and something like 3000 points. Not a good environment but seems to be better after the server transfers.

(Continued)

SPvP has potential. There are some balance issues but when aren’t there? I think 6v6 (or 5v5 w/e) would be better than 8v8. The zerg potential is annoying and most of the time when I join one team is camping the spawn of the other. That’s lame and I’m surprised people don’t get a 30 second spawn buff to combat exactly this. Seems pretty obvious. Besides that, there’s something… off about the pvp. I’ll refer back to warhammer online as it had this mostly correct. (With WoW still being the best with battlegrounds imho.) The fights are over far too quickly, and there isn’t enough crowd control to survive a 2vs1 or at least escape it (except for a few classes.) This of course leads to more zerging. It’s always an uneven fight in GW2. Always.

The biggest problem for me is that for a game advertised as pvp mmo, you don’t get xp for pvp, whereas in Wow and Warhammer you did. Personally this is a big one for a game that says it’s pvp centric. So you have to pve 80 levels so you can learn a play style that will never fly anywhere else but your lonely pve 80 levels. Very annoying. All of a sudden you have to play a completely different game, and the teams are seldom fair or visible. If you don’t level to 80 first, you really can’t do the WvW without being a leech. (I’m sure many don’t care, I do.) Weirdly, there you do get xp, but you don’t get your abilities. Everything is a punishment, nothing is there to actually help the player have fun the way they want. It’s maddening. Having to farm so you can travel? Meh.

Dungeons… haven’t had much luck yet. Did a few story modes, died a few times but nothing too bad. However all of a sudden my gear that was great for pve when I was learning the game and getting to 80 is completely wrong for even the most basic exp dungeon like AC. Now I have to farm pve to get the gold to buy knights gear so I can do more pve to get armor to do wpvp. But wait, I had to buy the armor to make me tougher to do the dungeon I needed to get armor to make me tougher for wvw. Sheesh.

It just seems like most things have nothing to do with the other parts of the game. It’s a frankenstein of cool ideas, all different species though. Nothing gels or melds, and the experiences individually actually seem to be setup in such a way as to prevent… fun. It has potential though, but right now it’s not working.

For me, the whole game is the endgame. Exploring it all and taking it in at my own pace is quite enjoyable. I feel that mmo-rpg players (or hey, people in general) have fallen into a serious trap that is the need to be told how to have fun or given some tedious task (grind for this shiny loot!) for your “endgame”. Here I simply play gw2, to play gw2, and its refreshing.

Arius.7031:

That’s not really the type of was referring to. That one’s cool, but not amazing (you can get one with red lightning for doing CoE). I was more referring to these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire%27s_Essence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Mists

Those make me melt…

O.o?? I never knew about these…

NetherDiver.6079:

Arius.7031:

That’s not really the type of was referring to. That one’s cool, but not amazing (you can get one with red lightning for doing CoE). I was more referring to these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire%27s_Essence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Mists

Those make me melt…

O.o?? I never knew about these…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Other_Items

Here’s a list that I just found thanks to Woodenpotatoes’ video. Gives me a whole other list of Stuff To Do ^^

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

NetherDiver.6079:

Arius.7031:

That’s not really the type of was referring to. That one’s cool, but not amazing (you can get one with red lightning for doing CoE). I was more referring to these:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire%27s_Essence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volcanus
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vision_of_the_Mists

Those make me melt…

O.o?? I never knew about these…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Other_Items

Here’s a list that I just found thanks to Woodenpotatoes’ video. Gives me a whole other list of Stuff To Do ^^

Dude, ANet needs to work on communicating things to their player base.

Personally, “end game” isn’t really that bad; just kind of lack luster and not much to do… I’ve explored 90% of the world (I don’t really enjoy the Charr areas that much… but I’ll get around to it eventually…) don’t care for the legendaries all that much, especially since the bows are kind of lame… Jump puzzles are fun, but yield little to no reward, so that after doing them once or twice they become kind of pointless., etc. etc.

I play a ranger, not only because I like the class (even with all its deficiencies), but also because I am a ranger; I like to range, roam the world just to find what I can. The problem is, that other than Orr (which is just kind of boringly designed and I was hoping for more large sieges and fierce fighting events where players would be in a constant back and forth with the risen forces; instead I got annoying enemies with lots of cc that aren’t event that challenging and just slow one down when traveling) and Frostgorge, there really aren’t that many other places to go at the moment.

I mean everywhere else there really isn’t much going on (heck even in those areas there isn’t much going on); soloing easy event because of the boring scaling, a couple events where the enemies just one shot you with every attack making your dodge pointless, a couple of pointless jump puzzles that I’ve already passed through with ease (finding some of them on the other hand…) and provide no incentive to return (there are a couple I sometimes return to because I like their natural feeling atmosphere).

I don’t like the pvp in this game; I think its because of the auto-targeting making it feel just pointless for me.

Personally, I would just like to see the current areas events and stuff revamped before they moved on to new content.

Numot.3965:

For me, the whole game is the endgame. Exploring it all and taking it in at my own pace is quite enjoyable. I feel that mmo-rpg players (or hey, people in general) have fallen into a serious trap that is the need to be told how to have fun or given some tedious task (grind for this shiny loot!) for your “endgame”. Here I simply play gw2, to play gw2, and its refreshing.

And this here is why we differ on opinion. You feel you have the freedom to play, in my experience, A.Net has told me HOW to play..or else.

Apparently spamming “1” is not a fun game play experience to them. And so, they have assigned nerfs to the ranger class and their way of ‘playing’. Yet the rest of the game is largely the population spamming ‘1’ against Jormag and his ilk.

1 is the go to skill because its the only thing that doesn’t have a CD on the skill. Therefore, 1 is a ‘spamable’ skill. But things that kill the DEV’s precious warrior class gets nerfed.

There are loads of other reasons that I feel the DEV’s have decided what is fun for me and not, but this game…isn’t one of them.

I so wish that would change

Metalripper.5406:

What endgame?

Ohh, you mean playing Dress-up with your pixels?

Yeah, I tried to get into it, I couldn’t.

why are you playing an mmo then? pretty sure every mmo in existence has the same basic formula

Ya, this game has fun endgame content. Who needs challenging dungeons tuned for teamwork when you can zerg Orr mobs endlessly.

This game has the most boring endgame imaginable- it’s a typical Korean mmo, with the same old dull philosophy that’s always been used.

Anet- people don’t hate the GEAR of other mmos, they hate the GRIND you needed to do for gear. By keeping everything awful about grinding and making it even worse, while removing almost all that’s fun about new gear- you kept the worst parts and got rid of the good parts.

I’ve already posted my thoughts on another thread... https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-End-Game-Debate/

Greenbuddhas.4508:

Metalripper.5406:

What endgame?

Ohh, you mean playing Dress-up with your pixels?

Yeah, I tried to get into it, I couldn’t.

why are you playing an mmo then? pretty sure every mmo in existence has the same basic formula

That’s where you’re kind of wrong. MMO’s such as Original UO and perhaps EvE were using a different formula than MMOs such as this or even WoW.

In UO and EvE you set your own adventure you basically do whatever you wish, in fact what you did/do could certainly have a impact in the game world. Also you’re not tied to grinding to keep up with everyone else (which is something this game does fairly good at, I think EvE is a little different now in this aspect though).

But in Games such as WoW, SWTOR, or even GW2 you’re limited on the things you do. You character has virtually no impact on the game world you really don’t even interact with the world and other players much at all. Only time you act upon others is when you’re trying to defeat a difficult boss or WvW but even them communication is limited as it usually a few people such as leaders and officers communicating with everyone else.

So there are different MMO forumlas it’s just that today’s gamers are mainly only familiar with one thanks to the WoW or even Diablo boom. Yes I know Diablo isn’t an MMO but the WoW/GW2 and Diablo Formula are very very similar as well. Basically Grind the story, grind for gear and pvp when/if you can.

The entire game is the end-game.

So if yo say like the end-game, it’s the same as saying you like the entire game.

Well it looks like we’re going to get a load of new content come November the 15th. So that’s only a couple of months after launch; and that almost rivals Trion’s content publishing.

If they decide to set the bar this high, and continue to keep supplying content at a steady rate, i’d say we’ll all be able to agree that content will be even greater in the next 6 months.

Lande.5782:

Nayru.3947:

Lande.5782:

People are way too used to gear treadmills. So ingrained because they never played anything other than that one type of game.

There is an endgame in GW2, and it’s fantastic.

Care to explain what it is? I have 100% world completion and can’t name anything else to do.

WvW, sPvP, alts, working on your legendary, playing the Trading Post, farming, dungeons, exploring further (even at 100% there is still a lot to find in the world, as I was surprised to find out).

The fantastic thing about GW2 is you have so many things you can do every time you log in. The only thing this game is missing would be the gear treadmill, which to many people is a great thing.

Ummm you can do this on all mmo’s also. How is this any different? Also adding farming, trading post and exploration as part of end game just shows you how much it lacks content wise. Exploration is always the poorest excuse of content but to throw in the trading past, that is just mind blowing.

bojangles.6912:

Lande.5782:

Nayru.3947:

Lande.5782:

People are way too used to gear treadmills. So ingrained because they never played anything other than that one type of game.

There is an endgame in GW2, and it’s fantastic.

Care to explain what it is? I have 100% world completion and can’t name anything else to do.

WvW, sPvP, alts, working on your legendary, playing the Trading Post, farming, dungeons, exploring further (even at 100% there is still a lot to find in the world, as I was surprised to find out).

The fantastic thing about GW2 is you have so many things you can do every time you log in. The only thing this game is missing would be the gear treadmill, which to many people is a great thing.

Ummm you can do this on all mmo’s also. How is this any different? Also adding farming, trading post and exploration as part of end game just shows you how much it lacks content wise. Exploration is always the poorest excuse of content but to throw in the trading past, that is just mind blowing.

I’m gonna ignore the fact you’re trying to knock legitimate examples off the list with our old friend No True Scotsman and simply let you in on a little fact. Exploration is endgame content for a lot of players. Playing the market is endgame for a lot of players. Just because you don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean you can’t count it on the list of things to do.

Ultimately the problem is with player perception. WoW has poisoned the minds of the MMO community. Challenge is vilified (devs apologizing for the Halloween jumping puzzle mutch?), endgame activities “don’t count as endgame” if it’s not a tiered PVE raid grind. While the “no endgame” argument may have worked in, say, SWTOR the problem is there’s a lot to do in GW2 that doesn’t constitute a classic PVE skinner box.

Sadly to many deluded players no skinner box means no endgame. My advice is to not try to enforce these delusions as the truth of things.

MMOs are like a big sandbox, they are only as enjoyable and deep as you want them to be.

Some kids did everything they cared for really fast and got ahead of the class.
Some kids enjoy doing other things that they enjoy that takes more time.

Does it mean the game is bad because some of you did everything you wanted really fast? No, just wait it out and play something else. This discussions only had a point when you had to pay a MONTHLY FEE. You asked yourself every month “what am i doing that is worth resubing again”.

GW2 has nothing like that, its a great game and you did most of the things you wanted out of it, now wait out for a new expansion or play something else. I personally find enjoyment in hunting people down in WvWvW. Never gets old. So Im sure im booting up GW2 to do something at least 3 days a week.

Okay, this might sound silly, but why exactly are you looking for “endgame” at all? The game has ended, you won, congratulations, you can go play something else now. Try another MMO, or just go play some single player game, and when you feel like coming back, Tyria will be waiting for you (possibly even bigger and better than you left it). You don’t have to stick around if you’re bored, alright? Unlike many other MMOs, you’re not losing any money by taking a break.

“Endgame”, as defined by your usual p2p MMO, is a way to keep people paying monthly fees for a game they’re done with – and since you ain’t playing any monthly fees in the first place, what’s the point in having any endgame?

It is alright.

I grinded 5 mans in WoW
I grinded 6 man dungeons in EQ
I grind 5 mans in GW2

The only difference is I don’t have a fee attached every month.

nerva.7940:

cant say i understand the complaints about GW2’s endgame. i stopped playing WoW because i couldnt participate in the game’s coolest encounters.

Not sure how that’s possible since they have looking for raid which is easy and lets you see the end game content anyways even if you’re not in a guild.

As for GW2 end game, there’s dungeons, spvp, and wvw. I haven’t done dungeons since the first couple weeks of release, it was such a clusterF I never bothered going back to grind tokens. I have temple set exotics on so I have the stats(for pvping) and the look is good enough for me. So what is left? Would be nice to see more dragon type encounters at 80 and if I could do them for something useful.

Same for spvp, level in there for better looks? makes no difference whether I run in there look like a country hick from queensdale or a prince from divinity’s reach, still the same character underneath. Tpvp might be worthwhile because of gem rewards, if you have a big team to run with.

Waiting on wvw updates, which don’t seem to be coming any time soon, another dungeon and *cough*darkmoon faire*cough* seem to be coming in with next update.

To be honest I am very disappointed with GW2 endgame. I am trying not to quit the game but its more difficult every day…

Legendaries? Blehhh…unless stats are improved for legendaries is really no point in getting them, specially if we consider the gold sinker they are…

100% map? Well, not my cup of tea. Maybe if I make more characters I go for it but not my priority.

Dungeons? After you learn the mechanics they become pretty boring.

sPvP? Just like CoD/CS with fantasy characters, very artifical and not very interesting.

WvWvW? The best feature of the game, could be a stand-alone game in itself. Much more than the door beating of WAR, but the reward system is so bad that right now I consider it a waste of time. I am waiting for ANet improvements of the reward system (badges, gear and materials drops).

Karma/gear farming at chained events? Not bad, I made a lot of gold and have a lot of karma but after getting all different sets I need its becoming boring too.

Crafting? I did not tried it yet. Probably never will.

In conclusion, WvWvW is the best feature of this game, in my oppinion. ANET needs to improve the reward system, delete the jumping puzzles to get badges because that is a very artificial way of getting badges that you are supposed to get as real PvP rewards. And we need an individual WvWvW ladder to show our individual results as WvWvW warriors, creating an extra incentive. Also, WvWvW results does not have a big impact on the PvE maps so a lot of people dont even bother with it. If WvWvW have a much bigger impact on PvE maps (opening new zones, closing others, increasing/decreasing mob spawn or special bosses, giving access to special dungeons, etc) then maybe more people will get involved.

Thank you and best regards,

Red

Vasham.2408:

Ummm you can do this on all mmo’s also. How is this any different? Also adding farming, trading post and exploration as part of end game just shows you how much it lacks content wise. Exploration is always the poorest excuse of content but to throw in the trading past, that is just mind blowing.

I’m gonna ignore the fact you’re trying to knock legitimate examples off the list with our old friend No True Scotsman and simply let you in on a little fact. Exploration is endgame content for a lot of players. Playing the market is endgame for a lot of players. Just because you don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean you can’t count it on the list of things to do.

Ultimately the problem is with player perception. WoW has poisoned the minds of the MMO community. Challenge is vilified (devs apologizing for the Halloween jumping puzzle mutch?), endgame activities “don’t count as endgame” if it’s not a tiered PVE raid grind. While the “no endgame” argument may have worked in, say, SWTOR the problem is there’s a lot to do in GW2 that doesn’t constitute a classic PVE skinner box.

Sadly to many deluded players no skinner box means no endgame. My advice is to not try to enforce these delusions as the truth of things.

[/quote]

Again with assumptions. First off, to the boded statement….THEY ARE JUST THINGS TO DO. It is not ‘end-game’.

Secondly, WoW had nothing to do with ‘end-game’ mentalities. Would you really believe WoW was NOT the first MMO???? gasp the horror….

Just because your idea of end-game and mine do not mesh does not mean that people do not rise to the top and then realize that there is nothing to do. The things they envisioned on doing once they hit 80 became a sad disappointing reality to many a player.

Just because you haven’t realized the things I have doesn’t mean that you ever will. Perhaps your satisfied with this model, currently, but read this:

MANY PEOPLE WERE WHEN THE GAME RELEASED!!! SO many bought into this, thinking that A.Net’s vision was going to revolutionize the MMO industry. We were promised teh nectar of the Gods, and got grape juice instead. As for someone who’se never had grape juice, this might be the end all of end and the bestest thing on the planet, but us adults are going…where’s my wine???

teviko.6049:

Again with assumptions. First off, to the boded statement….THEY ARE JUST THINGS TO DO. It is not ‘end-game’.

Secondly, WoW had nothing to do with ‘end-game’ mentalities. Would you really believe WoW was NOT the first MMO???? gasp the horror….

Just because your idea of end-game and mine do not mesh does not mean that people do not rise to the top and then realize that there is nothing to do. The things they envisioned on doing once they hit 80 became a sad disappointing reality to many a player.

Just because you haven’t realized the things I have doesn’t mean that you ever will. Perhaps your satisfied with this model, currently, but read this:

MANY PEOPLE WERE WHEN THE GAME RELEASED!!! SO many bought into this, thinking that A.Net’s vision was going to revolutionize the MMO industry. We were promised teh nectar of the Gods, and got grape juice instead. As for someone who’se never had grape juice, this might be the end all of end and the bestest thing on the planet, but us adults are going…where’s my wine???

Pretty sure they were clear about the lack of a necessary gear grind. I can’t say I know that first hand since I didn’t really follow GW2 closely pre release. You may or may not associate that with “end game” but this game has a ton of content at 80. Whether or not they’re fun for everyone and whether or not they’re rewarding enough is questionable. If you are looking for that gear grind, there’s a ton of other gear grind RPG’s out there.

I think what people are asking for is a series of difficult PvP content pieces, preferably dungeons, with a formidable requirement to participate. Gear just happens to be the easiest way to set milestones on an individual player basis, which is why so many developers use the gear system.

PvP is fun (a lot of fun imo) but it’s also the cheap way out for the dev because they don’t need to add new content for the game’s challenge to persist. Since GW2 has no sub, I kind of think that’s fair.

However, a lot of people love raiding. Many of my best MMO experiences are based around endgame and for me, that’s where the real meat of the genre is. It’s coming together with circa 19 other people and playing as a tightly knit team.

ANet needs to get more of that going for the 80 folks.

Equanim.5471:

I think what people are asking for is a series of difficult PvP content pieces, preferably dungeons, with a formidable requirement to participate. Gear just happens to be the easiest way to set milestones on an individual player basis, which is why so many developers use the gear system.

PvP is fun (a lot of fun imo) but it’s also the cheap way out for the dev because they don’t need to add new content for the game’s challenge to persist. Since GW2 has no sub, I kind of think that’s fair.

However, a lot of people love raiding. Many of my best MMO experiences are based around endgame and for me, that’s where the real meat of the genre is. It’s coming together with circa 19 other people and playing as a tightly knit team.

ANet needs to get more of that going for the 80 folks.

I’d love to see a more organized “raid” encounter.

However, I like that my content isn’t gated by gear requirements. I don’t have to run CoE for a while for HotW to unlock, and then for Arah to unlock. I can run them on my own terms and I don’t have to run encounters I don’t want to, thus getting rid of “inflated” and unnecessary game time.

That’s not to say I don’t enjoy that, I do, but I’ll play WoW for that type of endgame. I don’t mind that i don’t have to play GW2 for hours on end to progress in the late game.

I smile when someone talks about WoW as if it was the first real MMO…WoW was the first MMO setting the bar low so everyone could easily get involved with MMO´s…but before and after WoW there were many MMO´s better than WoW…

Unfortunately, in my opinion, WoW influenced in a negative way millions of potencial players of the next MMO´s so it has been very hard for game companies to try different avenues.

GW2 has some very nice features and tries to be different, I even like the TP model although I think some things are overpriced and the Black Lion Chest keys are close to be a scandal considering they rarely drop and their cost versus the chest rewards.

Many very good MMO´s failed because of lack of end game content. To me, end game is what makes you play every day after you achieved everything or close to everything in game…and the only thing I can see making us do it is WvWvW and other good challenges with nice appropriate rewards. Human beings need rewards (either mental/emotional/material) to keep pushing themselves a little harder, a little further.

It is easy for ANET to implement an in-game poll asking people what they want from the game next improvements (give rewards to whom answers the poll). The client base is always the best source of suggestions.

One area that is missing in almost all games (MMO´s and others) is the introduction of player designed content. Companies have millions of costumers with awesome ideas and great skills and almost none of them use that potential. Why not create ways of allowing the players to design new sets of armor, new weapons, their own housing, new guild emblem patterns, decorate cities or new areas if you own/conquered them, etc? People need to get involved, to feel the game like a part of themselves. The model of a stranger in a foreign land is completely worn out…time to move forward.

Players need to change the game world, to imprint their tastes, their dreams, their fantasies on it. Create cities in PvE maps to be build and decorated by the guild who gets them from event mobs (in the end players would be choosing skins from a long list to define buildings, flags, trees, plants, streets, walls, etc). Make WvWvW castles, keeps and towers more editable, let players build new castles, keeps, towers and supply points in pre-defined locations after they conquered the area (we need bigger maps for this by the way, let players suggest the design of new map areas too).

Let players build their own world (within certain rules and limits but with great amplitude) and players will play GW2 forever..:)

In the end, is all numbers that we need to load every time we reach a new area because all skins, shapes and colours will be already stored inside our computers.

Thank you and best regards,

Red

teviko.6049:

Again with assumptions. First off, to the boded statement….THEY ARE JUST THINGS TO DO. It is not ‘end-game’.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Sorry, but you’re wrong. Endgame is “things to do at max level.” Just because you don’t like things doesn’t mean they’re not endgame, nor can you not consider them such when it doesn’t suit your point of view.

Secondly, WoW had nothing to do with ‘end-game’ mentalities. Would you really believe WoW was NOT the first MMO???? gasp the horror….

No it wasn’t, and I’m fully aware of that. But WoW’s endgame model is the one that’s become the so called definition of what endgame should be. That is why we mention it.

Just because your idea of end-game and mine do not mesh does not mean that people do not rise to the top and then realize that there is nothing to do. The things they envisioned on doing once they hit 80 became a sad disappointing reality to many a player.

And the same can be said of you. Just because your idea of endgame and mine do not mesh does not mean that people do not rise to the top and then realize there’s plenty to do. Speaking for everyone makes you look foolish.

Just because you haven’t realized the things I have doesn’t mean that you ever will.

There’s nothing to realize, no massive epiphany to be had. Most people are satisifed, some aren’t. Treating those who are enjoying themselves as merely ignorant of the “truth” is a poor foundation for your argument.

Perhaps your satisfied with this model, currently, but read this:

MANY PEOPLE WERE WHEN THE GAME RELEASED!!! SO many bought into this, thinking that A.Net’s vision was going to revolutionize the MMO industry. We were promised teh nectar of the Gods, and got grape juice instead. As for someone who’se never had grape juice, this might be the end all of end and the bestest thing on the planet, but us adults are going…where’s my wine???

First problem: “Anyone who disagrees with me has poor taste.”

I direct you to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Second problem. You bought into hype, and you were disappointed. You, not all of us, and it’s no one’s fault but your own. This goes back to that “speaking for everyone” problem I mentioned. Speak from your perspective rather than trying to rally a non-existent army.

NetherDiver.6079:

Pretty sure they were clear about the lack of a necessary gear grind. I can’t say I know that first hand since I didn’t really follow GW2 closely pre release. You may or may not associate that with “end game” but this game has a ton of content at 80. Whether or not they’re fun for everyone and whether or not they’re rewarding enough is questionable. If you are looking for that gear grind, there’s a ton of other gear grind RPG’s out there.

A lot of people knew that there wasn’t going to be gear grind, but expected that ArenaNet would come up with an alternative. Instead, we now have a gaping hole where classic MMO endgame used to be, and somehow some people believe that approach is “better”. Completely removing a feature isn’t “better”. Saying “the whole game is endgame” is a cop-out. You can explore in every MMO ever made. You can craft in almost every one as well. You can get 100% Quest Completion in every MMO. But those are always side-challenges, and there is always a main challenge, the endgame – raiding, guild/faction politics (like EVE), alternative character progression systems (such as planar attunement in Rift), etc etc. GW2 has none of that.

lacrimstein.5603:

NetherDiver.6079:

Pretty sure they were clear about the lack of a necessary gear grind. I can’t say I know that first hand since I didn’t really follow GW2 closely pre release. You may or may not associate that with “end game” but this game has a ton of content at 80. Whether or not they’re fun for everyone and whether or not they’re rewarding enough is questionable. If you are looking for that gear grind, there’s a ton of other gear grind RPG’s out there.

A lot of people knew that there wasn’t going to be gear grind, but expected that ArenaNet would come up with an alternative. Instead, we now have a gaping hole where classic MMO endgame used to be, and somehow some people believe that approach is “better”. Completely removing a feature isn’t “better”. Saying “the whole game is endgame” is a cop-out. You can explore in every MMO ever made. You can craft in almost every one as well. You can get 100% Quest Completion in every MMO. But those are always side-challenges, and there is always a main challenge, the endgame – raiding, guild/faction politics (like EVE), alternative character progression systems (such as planar attunement in Rift), etc etc. GW2 has none of that.

“The whole game is endgame” isn’t a cop out, it’s just the way it is. Explorable mode dungeons start at 30, and once you hit 80, you’re still doing explorable mode dungeons. Some agree with that and some don’t, but I think the issue here is the lack of proper rewards. People want to feel like what their spending time on is worthwhile, hence many people like endgame gear grinds.

Yes you can explore in every other MMO, but not every other MMO explicitly rewards you and encourages you to explore specific points on the map.

From my perspective the “main” endgame are Dungeons. They were designed to be the most difficult content. I’d love to see GW2’s equivalent of raiding, and plenty of the dungeon designs and mechanics are questionable, but that’s your “main” endgame.

Their current endgame model is lacking, that’s for sure, and I hope they figure out how to refine it soon. End level character progression isn’t the only answer to endgame though, ANet just needs to figure out how to make the existing content more rewarding.

The only end game I have found are in these forums. In game alts are all there is to do after hitting 80. Getting +10 power on my panties or spikes on my shoulders doesn’t do anything for me since there is nothing to do even if I farmed for those gaudy armor pieces.

I’m trying. Really really trying.