Guild Wars 2

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.

That i knew long before release. I just hoped there would be something else at max level to keep players interested.
Unfortunally we couldnt test endgame in beta, probaby becouse they didnt want people to find out there were no alternative or new to the traditional raiding, just an empty void.

GOSU.9574:

I’ve been playing MMOs for 15 years to, the thing I do not need is a gear grind. I despise them generally, it’s an incredibly weak mechanic and is needed by the MONTHLY pay gimmick to keep you …. paying.

I prefer to have fluff to grind for if I want TO, not because I need TO. This is a PvP game, as soon as you PvEers wrap your little heads around that notion we can progress beyond all these “we need mounts” “we need more end game content” “we need raids” crap.

Red Falcon.8257:

greg.3792:

Nobody LIKES grind, but we do it because it gives us the edge in PvP

This sentence sums up the real reason people wants raids & co.
They want to outgear people they can’t outskill.

I’m so happy that this will never happen in GW2.

Pretty much this.

I’ve only played MMOs for a few years, mostly WoW and a few other less known ones. I can honestly say that all the fun I’ve had with online gaming, including games that aren’t MMO’s had nothing to do with “progression.”

Sleaze.3748:

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.

I agree.. I’m feeling the same way.

It can’t be carebear if it’s about skill.

I do not think it is so much about casual or non competitiveness as much as it is a design to work with an idea. The idea that it has no sub fee and you can put it down and pick it up at will, and not be left behind the loot grind that forces you to follow a loot path just to even think about catching up.

The mmo genre doesnt reaaly work with just playing now and then though. Socializing and grouping is a big part of them. You have to rebuild all that over and over.

GW1, same design philosophy. Top guilds and players were admired because when they playing field was leveled – everyone had the same stats, skills and gear – they could still kick you hard in less than 3 seconds. Because they played smart, worked together, got creative. They practised a helluvalot.

That, my dear carrot-lovers, is skill and brains. Such people should never, ever be ground down because a 6 year old could grind his brains out and get better gear.

If I have to choose between a game that favors brains (skill)> time and a game that features gear (time) >skill, I would choose the first one every time. Hey, let that be GW and GW2.

Those who are whining the hardest, are probably the ones who fail the hardest.

It’s funny when people say GW2 is for carebears when GW2 is more about skill than a WoW (or clone).

Any ijit with no life can spend 20+ hours/day in WoW (or clone) to “beat” an extremely skilled — in any other game — player.

Time != skill.

It’s sad to see people keep bringing up “skills” when it’s unrelated to the points some people brought up here. Let’s keep aside “skills” talks for pvp topics instead. They can balance/scale players in pvp all the system wants.

The topic on hand is that a mmo need a solid end-game grind that’s not just for cosmetic gears. Something to keep dedicated-type players feel constantly evolves and attached to this game. With no gear progression, they should have a backup alternative solid end-game. I gave my personal suggestion earlier in this topic that certain elements of end-game grinding can be included in future house content. There should be many ways. I hope the devs can produce something good and not just expansions only for extending the story and maps.

Naoko.7096:

It’s sad to see people keep bringing up “skills” when it’s unrelated to the points some people brought up here. Let’s keep “skills” talks aside for pvp topics. They can balance/scale players in pvp all the system wants.

The topic on hand is that a mmo need a solid end-game grind that’s not just for cosmetic gears. Something to keep dedicated-type players feel constantly evolves and attached to this game. With no gear progression, they should have a backup alternative solid end-game. I gave my personal suggestion earlier in this topic that certain elements of end-game grinding can be included in future house content. There should be many ways. I hope the devs can produce something good and not just expansions only for extending the story and maps.

You’re idea may be great. But OP wants a “carrot” but does not specify.

GW2 has a TON of carrots. So because the OP saying he wants a carrot (his carrot? what carrot? more carrots? whose carrot?), forum posters have to assume what kind of carrot he meant…and the only carrot most people know about, that’s left out of GW2, is the gear progression “carrot”.

And the topic of skill (PvP or PvE – I hate PvP in MMOs) relates to the gear progression carrot.

—
I for one, am glad there is no progression “carrot”. And I see housing carrots the same as cosmetic carrots. Sure you don’t carry your house on your back (as with armor), but it’s purely cosmetic and nonfunctional. Cool with me tho, I’d dig it, but people are probably lumping housing in with “cosmetics”.

—
Another point is that the OP insists on is that no one likes “grind”. I like grind – sometimes. Depending on the gameplay. If I can listen to audio books and grind at the same time and enjoy the atmosphere, I love grinding. I run around in Frostgorge grinding just for fun. I skip Orr because those zones are not fun.

Most of my gamer friends feel the same — it all depends on the gameplay during the grind period.

Must be honest I’m missing the grind, but also if I try and grind which I oddly do enjoy sometimes the drop rate of simple items is so poor that cash flow is stupidly slow which means once the world completion is done the cash flow drys up. I don’t care about fancy stats or gear grinds,glad to not see that but I do enjoy rep grinding,etc.
Due to that I’ve moved back to allods online for abit, but GW2 will still be there when I feel like jumping back in, but at the min GW2 just isn’t a long term option for me.

Sleaze.3748:

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.

Non competitive? LOL, you are funny.

You think competition stems from having better gear? As that is what your last comment indicates. That is ridiculous. Competition stems from skill and GW2 provides the perfect environment for skill based competition.

Also, define casual please. Because it seems you define casual as someone who enjoys a skill based game.

Sleaze.3748:

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.

On the other hand, you could be completely talking out of your rear end.

What on earth is a “real MMO”? It’s a stab under the belt from you just as the term carebears. So what is the carebear? A person who thinks skill is more important than gear?

The biggest losers in the gaming world are the people who need better gear to win. It’s the age old contradiction where “real pvp’ers” need gear to wipe out other players. Yes, it’s people who need gear, which is ultimately a pve element (think about it, the stats come from the game, not from your skill), that are acting like they are the real men, the big shots. But in the end they need to hide behind gear.

I don’t know what pvp is like in WoW, since I never played it but name me one MMO outside WoW, that has a gear treadmill and is still a big success today.

What gets me most is all those whiners here about there not being gear progression at max. level who apparently live in a cave or can’t read. For YEARS this game has been announced, advertisments made, interviews given by Anet staff, explaining that this game is not about gear treadmills and yet, you buy this game completely unaware and once you get to level 80 it’s like: “mommy, they don’t have gear progression. Waaaaaaah”.

Honestly, I don’t get you people. Instead of insulting the game and the players who actually think fun and player skill count more than gear stats here, just go back to any old treadmill game. There are tons of them and with a bit of luck they might have more than 3 active servers. But don’t come here complaining about something that’s such old news, that I don’t understand how you could’ve missed this part about GW and bought it.

Truly amazing. Cosmetics, fluff, whatever…this is what it’s about. Not the stats. It shouldn’t have been a surprise to any of you if you actually would’ve read something about the game.

So please, if you think you need gear to be a good player then feel entirely free to leave and play any other game. If you think that powerful gear makes you a winner, then yes….I shall say it once again….

THIS IS NOT THE GAME FOR YOU

sigh.

/rant

It’s simple Sleaze, you want a game with a vertical progression, this game isn’t designed to be that kind of game, it is designed to be a virtual world with a horizontal progression.

I suggest Rift or WoW if you want a setting similar to Guild Wars but having a vertical progression. If you like Star Wars and want vertical progression there’s SWTOR.

As a culture we MMO players need to stop saying things are bad because they’re different from our tastes. I don’t like WoW’s taste, but from a design and engineering standpoint I can appreciate it. As a whole if the market does better we the consumer get more options because the industry becomes less risk averse. I mean we don’t say “OMG I want coffee ice cream makers to fail because I want strawberry.” however that’s the exact kind of thing we are doing to the MMO industry. You should want every single MMO to succeed.

The game is just dull, it’s completely uninteresting. Very few abilities with no gear restriction just makes everyone and their grand-mother a good player. There’s not enough depth to the game to distinguish between the good and the bad, it’s just a mess of players fighting against another mess of players.

Arena Net is just like any of the other gaming companies over the years, selling a botched half kitten idea of innovation that adds something new to the MMO genre.

garraeth.3267:

It’s funny when people say GW2 is for carebears when GW2 is more about skill than a WoW (or clone).

Funny that you mention this because it is completely not true…

What is skill? I believe skill is knowing which skills to use at the right time when under pressure.

Funny thing about GW is that you have tons of skill but can only access 15 at a time. Plus there are traits which can play a major roll in battle, and can not be changed on the fly. Therefore, GW becomes more about planning than skill to be honest, while games like wow tend to be more about gear than skill. At least in other MMOs if you go up against someone with equal gear then it will be about skill. In GW even a skilled player could be caught in a bad situation with the wrong build and lose.

So honestly GW is more about planning and WoW type game are more about gear…. neither seem to ever purely be about skill. Just a side note… I never played WoW.

Edit: since I was asked what a carebear is…. they are people who expect everything to have everything without having to work for anything… they are the people who expect every child in a sports tournament to receive a trophy just for showing…

I would rather not have mobs like Kholer be reduced to kitten status just because “im wearing teh purpz”. I rather like to watch a level 35 explorable boss pull level new level 80’s (Even though they are downscaled) in and tear them to shreds.

Then 2-4 more runs that same person never gets tagged.

Most games… you put forth effort and time to get better at playing your character and improve both your understanding of the game as well as both your gear and appearance… in the best of those games, teammwork is paramount. this creates a sense of achievement. a sense of growth.

in GW2 you put forth massive amount of time and effort to endure a handful of speed farmed puggable dungeons… over and over… just for something to change your appearance. the only thing Legendary about this – is the amount of Grind. if i actually ever got a Legendary i would definitely question my life’s goals lol. overall i feel no sense of growth or achievement. i do find experimenting with the different professions to be interesting but clearly if i dont devote 95% of my time to ONE character. i will never ever get a Legendary within a year, or likely longer, or maybe never.

challenge? all the enemies list their special attacks, every boss is rez zergable. if i look cooler than you it simpy shows i walked away from the red circles more than you did. i’ve experienced no teammwork or need to ever plan combos or adjust trait builds or utility loadouts. i mean.. PUGs were speed farming Exp mode dungeons in the first week of the game… i’m a casual player of games. and even i find this a bit dull.

revolutionary? i was curious about a game without “the trinity” as they say. flexibility and freedom from established roles sounds like a great thing. but i also didnt want the mess that is GW2 gameplay – just complete chaotic random free for all with zero expectations on your Party members other than they dont stand in the red circle and Rally you if you die.

welcome to Grind Wars 2?

Sleaze.3748:

Edit: since I was asked what a carebear is…. they are people who expect everything to have everything without having to work for anything… they are the people who expect every child in a sports tournament to receive a trophy just for showing…

You’re analogy isn’t correct for GW2 and it’s a common strawman analogy used by those in favor of vertical progression for PVP. A more appropriate analogy would be like this:

Take the Olympics in any sport where gear is a factor, say fencing. The olympic officials make sure there’s no advantage (it’s why the spanish grip is still not legal in competitions) and they don’t give the best foilist a better foil for their next match, no they give them a gold medal. That gold medal doesn’t increase their ability to compete but just recognizes that they’re the top for that olympiad in that sport.

Same thing here in GW2

Further more, that analogy is insulting. There should be more to PVP than just gear, experience and player skill in the medium should be the dominating factor. In my favorite PVP experience of all time, SWG’s Jump to Lightspeed Expansion, we space PVPers knew when we were facing a noob who bought his gear of a vendor.

Anytime we had said newb say ‘oh your ship is just better than mine’ we often gave them our loadouts and still blew up their arses in no time flat, because it took experience and player skill to fight players in space. So the idea that those of us that think gear shouldn’t be a substitute for team-play, experience, and skill are wanting an ‘everyone is special’ type system is insulting especially being made by someone wanting to hide their lack of ability to have team play, use experience, and skill behind some oversized and phallic compensating gear advantage.

I would just like to say that the title of this thread is both original and provocative.

thefounder.2074:

i’ve experienced no teammwork or need to ever plan combos or adjust trait builds or utility loadouts. i mean.. PUGs were speed farming Exp mode dungeons in the first week of the game… i’m a casual player of games. and even i find this a bit dull.

You’re not a casual player. If you were, you wouldn’t be talking about speed farming the dungeons in the first week or trait builds or loadouts. You got to 30 in the first few days, and probably have a bunch of 80s now, right? Not causal.

I played at a very casual pace and had made it to 80 in 3 weeks, and got 3 pieces of karma gear. I play about 2-3 hours a night 3-4 days a week. Sometimes less, sometimes more.

What basis of play time are we basing as casual and hard core?

Because I feel that I am reasonably casual and the grind was minimal. Not to mention the comparison of grind here to grinds in most MMOs, leaves the OP with no leg to stand on.

As a matter of fact most MMOs forums have threads like these.

Honestly though, the comments about quit if you do not like it are valid. If folks are having a good time, they are reasonably allowed to counter the argument, which would not be here if the OP did not have some idea about using the forums to leverage his idea to change the game on some level.

I fail to see how this is game is grindy unless you want to kitten a legendary weapon as if it makes you some magically gifted gamer, which is what most of your post is whining about how you’ll never get one.

This is a thinly veiled whine about the legendary weapon requirements, I promise you it won’t suddenly make you into a good gamer. It also doesn’t make those with legendary weapons better gamers :p Create a look you like and have fun experiencing this virtual world. =D

Far too many people have gone with the mindset of WoW’s gear progression – if I don’t see a stat increase, then there’s hardly a point.
Nobody is forcing you to play it every day for hours.Play when you want to.It’s a free game you know.You can come back in 4-5 months and it’ll be the same game, or maybe more polished(bug free).
And yes – you’re not casual.Not with the points you’re making.

Arena themselves have said that on average, without focus farms, it would take about 6 months give or take to make such a weapon(legendary).So 1 year is quite enough time to make it while still taking your time.

There’s another way to progress in MMOs – that is horizontal progression. In Guild Wars 1 it was a lot of fun capping elite skills and trying out new builds with them, since you could then mix up your play styles. Also the named bosses would sometimes drop special max level items, the equivalent of exotics, but with unique skins related to each boss, which was a lot of fun too. If you are going to lose the vertical gear grind, then it makes sense to have some horizontal progression instead. Not sure why that’s largely been lost in Guild Wars 2.

Note that Eve Online is based entirely around horizontal progression. You can be effective in PvP in a frigate (as a tackler) from pretty much day 1 and then later you can progress to larger ships that have different and more versatile roles.

I think the main issue is once you make your character look awesome you kind of run out of things to do which makes you look at the legendary grind. (Quite literally a legendary grind /badpunlol) People sometimes need to remember that exploring isn’t for everyone and after awhile you do need some active things to do with your skill bar.

Howeeeever there was post recently stating that they are hoping to release more content soon (ie November probably) for your main skill bar. =]

Which is to be expected, because no MMos have enough end game after 8 weeks to satisfy those who put extended hours into it.

Naoko.7096:

The topic on hand is that a mmo need a solid end-game grind that’s not just for cosmetic gears.

You have to either grind dungeons or Karma to get stat combos on gear that cannot be made or created. As well the legendary weapons are a heck of a grind. If your complaining or arguing for one who is complaining, and you do not have all of that yet, your clearly complaining just to complain.

It is really hard to complain about how easy it is to get things, and press for more things, when you haven’t even got the first things yet. Do you understand the things I am getting at?

Anishor.6921:

Take the Olympics in any sport where gear is a factor, say fencing. The olympic officials make sure there’s no advantage (it’s why the spanish grip is still not legal in competitions) and they don’t give the best foilist a better foil for their next match, no they give them a gold medal. That gold medal doesn’t increase their ability to compete but just recognizes that they’re the top for that olympiad in that sport.

This in my opinion is exactly why they created sPvP… which I enjoy very much and have absolutely no problem. In fact since you seem to be insulting me and assuming I have no skills… I often finish top of both teams and have no problems with 1v1s.

My point is that why cant there be the sPvP portion of the game with make stats equal among all players, as well as a portion of the game that gives you gear to work towards such as WvW? Having both of these implemented in one game I think would be a huge success for all player types to enjoy.

Also as I said earlier, in most other MMOs that I have played I never had the elite and best gear…usually far from that. In fact I would die a ton to other people better geared than I. The difference is that I wouldn’t go crying about it and expect it to be as fair and strict as the Olympics….

…last time I checked MMOs weren’t an Olympic sport so I am not sure why you used this analogy.

Sleaze.3748:

I came to this game totally understanding that sPvP was where stats and gear would not matter. With this in mind, I already knew that WvW would be where my time would be spent. After I hit 80 I then realized all gear has basically the same stats and has no effort what so ever to get. Ironically the gear that has possibly the biggest grind to it (WvW) just looks incredibly dull and boring.

So your telling me that PvP where you actually have to be GOOD to get anywhere isn’t your type of game?

You know what that says right? That in order to be as good as other players you have to have better gear.

PvP is supposed to be about skill. If you don’t want to compete because you can’t get better gear than others, then you never wanted to actually pvp anyway. You just wanted to pwn faces because you either spent more money or had more time than people with jobs/families etc…

No, I just like progression and something to earn… read my above post… I play both sPvP and WvW and enjoy both at times…. but its the progression and working towards something that actually hooks me into a game more than a few months.

Sleaze.3748:

No, I just like progression and something to earn… read my above post… I play both sPvP and WvW and enjoy both at times…. but its the progression and working towards something that actually hooks me into a game more than a few months.

Working towards being the best player isn’t progressive enough?

When ranks come in, will that give you something to work towards?

@Sleave – simple reason why they didn’t make it two entire game modes.

1. SPvP isn’t even fully opened up yet (were JUST getting paid tourneys).

2. They don’t want to split any “competitive” scene. They made WvW for those that wanted something unbalanced.

Thats really all there is too it.

Personally I liked balanced PvP and PvE to me didn’t matter if it’s balanced or not, so I do like loot progression in PvE, it’s a reward. That said, I wasn’t mistaken what GW’s was doing, that’s been transparent. It’s not my first choice, but I understand, it’s the game they made.

PvP more like a FPS. PvE more like a ARPG. Both in the same game, even better.

Hellooo … there is gear progressionnn … But it is just for appearance and not for stats. And yes, that is PvE gear progression. Like a poster above said … If you don’t have your legendaries, then you really should not be wasting time on these forums complaining. You should be in game grinding toward your legendaries. That is what you want to do, no?

For people who whine for Gear Treadmills (Vertical Progression) in GW2 please forget it, or if you can’t stand for this philosophy just leave the game simple as that. Because ANet never provide those type of games, so there will never be outgeared, Gear > Skill in this game. The real competitive PvP in this game is skill-based and teamwork. I don’t understand what’s fun when one players can one shot kill wipe all the other players in the entire maps. I guess some people may have been brainwashed from other MMO games that the whole concept of the MMO game is Grinding the Gear Treadmills, and Stats progressions, and whining when GW2 is unlike other MMO that they want to be.

But again the problem that make many people feel like there is no progressions in GW2. May because there is still no Ranking System, no Players Armory, Wardrobe system that make other people know how Achievements you earned, what Trophies you got, what Gears you collected, what Guild you in. Which I heard the rumors that ANet is trying to implement these feature in the future patched and I hope if this features happen in the game, it may fulfill the end game progressions that we miss in GW2

I love how people seem to always assume that players who want progression in a MMO are looking to just one shot everyone. In my opinion, that is not fun either.

There are plenty of ways to implement progression in gear without buffing stats to the point of making things unfair… for example…

Magic or gold find increase as additional stats
Increase the amount of supplies a player can carry
Falling damage decrease
Even a out of combat speed buff
There could also be gear created to enhance class specific skills that dont have stats but effect utility skills

There are many many ways they could implement progression without upsetting all the carebears that cry as soon as they think someone is going to have something better than them. Any of those added to hard to obtain pieces of gear would keep my interests in the game and yet still keep a 1v1 battle perfectly fair so no one sheds any tears.

i havent read all the thread and i wont. All i’ll say is: We are used to games of 3-8 years of released content, GW2 is just 3 months.

Give it a little time and you’ll have lots of end-game to do.

coglin.1496:

Naoko.7096:

The topic on hand is that a mmo need a solid end-game grind that’s not just for cosmetic gears.

You have to either grind dungeons or Karma to get stat combos on gear that cannot be made or created. As well the legendary weapons are a heck of a grind. If your complaining or arguing for one who is complaining, and you do not have all of that yet, your clearly complaining just to complain.

It is really hard to complain about how easy it is to get things, and press for more things, when you haven’t even got the first things yet. Do you understand the things I am getting at?

I understand what you getting at. You must know that without complaints nor negative feedbacks, the game devs won’t know what the other half wants. If people are not in that other half or affected, I don’t understand why people have to put down the ones giving feedbacks. A game can’t have 100% positive feedbacks. These feedbacks are valid because it’s not only one individual, but really many has the same feeling if you look around. It’s a forum and it’s a place where different players voices their different opinions towards the game. Usually those who pay attention to the game and give honest feedbacks are those who love the game. If the person hate the game, they wouldn’t bother making effort to post.

The issue on hand is that the same efforts placed into other mmos, can reward you of both gear cosmetic + gear progression. Therefore, dedicated players who tasted other mmos feel very less rewarded with the same effort here. This made them loses motivations to grind on the given end-game. “Grinding for -cosmetic gears- only” isn’t effective to motivate real mmo players. It’s because other mmos are already have cosmetic gears too. There should be more.. maybe something that’s still “cosmetics” but that doesn’t relate to gears. Like housings, cheaper waypts, less tax, mounts etc in end-game. Real rewards to dedicated players who wants to play more than casual players.

I personally farmed few dungeon equipments, crafted mystic weapon and bought karma armors in orr. I showed it off to my friends in facebook. The replies I gotten were not pleasing. One reply to me was, “You wasted your efforts and money. You’re no different than other exotic players”. That comment towards me came from a casual gw2 player who only play for story. It demotivates me. I can’t even have bragging rights nor feel special for achieving more than casual players. It made me feel there’s literally no rewards for all the efforts. It wasn’t like this in other mmos. People would congratulate me if I acquire a world boss equipment. I feel special to achieve something many can’t. It’s an important element in any mmo. Gw2 rewards feel more like an illusion.

why people play counter strike / team fortress 2 over and over again?

anet is smart to not include stats progression in gw2.

But what does this mean – is this a FPS instead of a MMO?
i.e. there is no progression, we spend minimal time to get to full stats and then that is it its over?

The game can’t even go into first person to begin with. :P

Many FPS games these days have a “level to unlock more powerful stuff” model, that rewards “time played” over “player skill”.

I love that I can join into a pvp match and be on par with other players gear wise, and the end result of a pvp battle comes down to how you
A) Choose your weapons
B) Choose your utilities/elites
C) Spec your traits
D) Customize your gear
E) Use all of the above to preform as best as you can verse many different classes, with your current chosen class.

Throw in organised group pvp and it starts getting even more awesome.

Naoko.7096:

I personally farmed few dungeon equipments, crafted mystic weapon and bought karma armors in orr. I showed it off to my friends in facebook. The replies I gotten were not pleasing. One reply to me was, “You wasted your efforts and money. You’re no different than other exotic players”. That comment towards me came from a casual gw2 player who only play for story. It demotivates me.

And that’s exactly what GW is. Why you want to become more powerful than any other when you get the same level and rarity types of gears, unless you want this game to have Tier1 Exotic, Tier2 Exotic………..Tier(infinity) Exotic, which make you to become outgeared players and prove that you are hardcore players who can dominate carebears in the game.
The different between players in GW2 is represent in terms of attributes they built, playstyle, Sigil, Runes and Traits. These make you different from any others but it make no more powerful than any other.
I think it is not wasting my time at all when I saw someone wear Legendary Sunrise sword, and everyone around me in that map are exciting and talk about it (may be except that Moron on your facebook reply.)
But as I said, GW2 do need something like Ranking System, and Armory that make people know how you achieve the game which I hope it can fulfill the progressions that some people feel empty when they reach the endgame.
BTW you should know Players Housing will definitely coming in the future patches.

Amadeuz.4617:

Naoko.7096:

I personally farmed few dungeon equipments, crafted mystic weapon and bought karma armors in orr. I showed it off to my friends in facebook. The replies I gotten were not pleasing. One reply to me was, “You wasted your efforts and money. You’re no different than other exotic players”. That comment towards me came from a casual gw2 player who only play for story. It demotivates me.

And that’s exactly what GW is. Why you want to become more powerful than any other when you get the same level and rarity types of gears, unless you want this game to have Tier1 Exotic, Tier2 Exotic………..Tier(infinity) Exotic, which make you to become outgeared players and prove that you are hardcore players who can dominate carebears in the game.
The different between players in GW2 is represent in terms of attributes they built, playstyle, Sigil, Runes and Traits. These make you different from any others but it make no more powerful than any other.
I think it is not wasting my time at all when I saw someone wear Legendary Sunrise sword, and everyone around me in that map are exciting and talk about it (may be except that Moron on your facebook reply.)
But as I said, GW2 do need something like Ranking System, and Armory that make people know how you achieve the game which I hope it can fulfill the progressions that some people feel empty when they reach the endgame.
BTW you should know Players Housing will definitely coming in the future patches.

So this is becoming Guild Wars : The sims edition?? kitten that.

Pilusilm.5682:

Amadeuz.4617:

Naoko.7096:

I personally farmed few dungeon equipments, crafted mystic weapon and bought karma armors in orr. I showed it off to my friends in facebook. The replies I gotten were not pleasing. One reply to me was, “You wasted your efforts and money. You’re no different than other exotic players”. That comment towards me came from a casual gw2 player who only play for story. It demotivates me.

And that’s exactly what GW is. Why you want to become more powerful than any other when you get the same level and rarity types of gears, unless you want this game to have Tier1 Exotic, Tier2 Exotic………..Tier(infinity) Exotic, which make you to become outgeared players and prove that you are hardcore players who can dominate carebears in the game.
The different between players in GW2 is represent in terms of attributes they built, playstyle, Sigil, Runes and Traits. These make you different from any others but it make no more powerful than any other.
I think it is not wasting my time at all when I saw someone wear Legendary Sunrise sword, and everyone around me in that map are exciting and talk about it (may be except that Moron on your facebook reply.)
But as I said, GW2 do need something like Ranking System, and Armory that make people know how you achieve the game which I hope it can fulfill the progressions that some people feel empty when they reach the endgame.
BTW you should know Players Housing will definitely coming in the future patches.

So this is becoming Guild Wars : The sims edition?? kitten that.

If you label as that, you should know GW always became the sims type of game since Guild Wars 1 where gears are only cosmetics.
I just state the fact anyway, cause I am not so naive to believe that ANet will overthrow the entire of their concept of the game to put those Gear Treadmills tradition to their new game.

Sleaze.3748:

garraeth.3267:

It’s funny when people say GW2 is for carebears when GW2 is more about skill than a WoW (or clone).

Funny that you mention this because it is completely not true…

What is skill? I believe skill is knowing which skills to use at the right time when under pressure.

Funny thing about GW is that you have tons of skill but can only access 15 at a time. Plus there are traits which can play a major roll in battle, and can not be changed on the fly. Therefore, GW becomes more about planning than skill to be honest, while games like wow tend to be more about gear than skill. At least in other MMOs if you go up against someone with equal gear then it will be about skill. In GW even a skilled player could be caught in a bad situation with the wrong build and lose.

So honestly GW is more about planning and WoW type game are more about gear…. neither seem to ever purely be about skill. Just a side note… I never played WoW.

Edit: since I was asked what a carebear is…. they are people who expect everything to have everything without having to work for anything… they are the people who expect every child in a sports tournament to receive a trophy just for showing…

I do distinguish between skill and skills. Planning ahead is also a skill. But you cannot prepare for everything, especially in pvp.

What I have a problem with in a lot of these discussions is that people tend to see everything in black and white. Either you are hardcore or a carebear. The problem with using terms like that loosely is that you generalise people into a group even when they don’t belong to them.

I asked the question because now you give a clearer definition. But in essence “carebear” is a derogatory term, an insult. And when you use the term so loosely you basically make a general insult to anybody who isn’t of your opinion.

I got most of my armour from dungeons. I did the dungeons, so I didn’t get it for free. Is it easier than in other games? Depends on the game. Not everybody thinks dungeons here are actually easy. That’s still a matter of opinion.

Back on skill….yes, GW is about planning but when gear plays a major factor, there is nothing you can do against that, whereas skill and skill planning allow for growth and learning as a player. That is why I like GW2 better than a gear-centric game.

The only thing you can learn in gear centric games is that you need the better gear. Only when everybody has the best gear can you see where people’s skill levels are. That’s where it gets interesting to me. I don’t mind skipping to that phase.

Sleaze.3748:

I came to this game totally understanding that sPvP was where stats and gear would not matter. With this in mind, I already knew that WvW would be where my time would be spent. After I hit 80 I then realized all gear has basically the same stats and has no effort what so ever to get. Ironically the gear that has possibly the biggest grind to it (WvW) just looks incredibly dull and boring.

I am one of those players that gets hooked by having that carrot dangled in front of you. I rarely get the best gear in MMOs and constantly face people better geared than me, but that never discourages me… it just makes me want that gear more. The cool looking skins are nice, but if thats all gear has then it will get very boring very fast.

If Anet was smart, they would leave the sPvP for the people not into gear treadmills and WvW could be for the people who enjoy earning something with better stats. If this game doesn’t implement something to work toward, then I really doubt it will hold my interest very long. But then again since I am not paying monthly, I really doubt Anet cares to capture the interest of players like myself.

I am starting to get the feeling that this is more of a carebear version of a real MMO, suited for very casual and non competitive players.

No, WvW is already pretty bad on some servers where people are abandoning and joining the winning sides. Think about how kittened up it would be with top servers having the majority of their players running around with the kind if gear your talking about.

If you guys really want the gear grind there are plenty of other MMORPG’s out there for you to choose from. Hell go play Aion its free to play with no gimmicks and you can go balls crazy with the grind till you achieve your T2 Lv60 pvp set and pvp accessories. They even have 12 man pve raids for your type with a drop rate that will make you want smash your pc.

I experienced it in Aion on Zikel server and I DO NOT WANT THAT HERE.

Bad memories of being PKed and one shotted in other MMOs by kitten with ebayed gear. Not to mention the elitism that comes with it..

Please keep that sort of thing as far away from me as possible. The traditional gear grind really makes for a toxic gaming environment.

PvP sounds great but PvE sounds horrible. Stop putting them together unless there will be open world raids where guild compete with each other for a boss.

Okay, let’s pretend for a moment that PvE and PvP are stricktly separate – to the point where your PvE gear and skills cannot be used in PvP and vice versa.

You say you still would like gear progression for PvE. Why? What’s the point? Gear gets better, but bosses get tougher, so you won’t notice the difference in difficulty anyway. There is downscaling, so even though you as level 80 are -already- more powerful in a level 10 area, you are still not powerful enough to get that Omagad-I’m-One-Shotting-Everything-In-Sight-Uber-God-Mode-Power-Rush.

So why would you want gear progression? It’s just as “pointless” as the cosmetic progression.

Let’s face it: the only difference is the psychological difference that stems from a decade of “gear treadmill brainwashing”.
Take a step back and try to analyse why you REALLY need the better stats, and make it a different reason than “because unicorns*”.

*replace unicorns by either “it’s fun” (why?) or “MMO’s have always been about gear progression” (invalid – because something has always been like something, is no reason to continue doing it)

I have been in “MMOs” since they were MUDs though only a few years longer then you. My first run in with “grind” as a componant of the game was in WoW.
Before that it was more social oriented. I feel there was some grind in EQ, but not as heavy as in WoW.
I think you have been led astray.
This game is great as is.
doesn’t need raiding or grind.
Sorry but I have to disagee with you