Guild Wars 2

For those of you who run “magic find” gear on occassion, what is your opinion of it? Do you wonder how(if) it works?

Here is why I ask…

Like many of you, I spend a fair amount of time farming events for gold and Karma. I typically run from event to event in Orr, picking up loot from dead Orrians.

That being the case, I thought it made sense to make a set of magic find gear for my Engineer, since I think the flame thrower is one of the best AOE/farming weapons in the game. Through armor/rune/jewels/weapon and omnoberry bars, my math tells me I should be running a 143% boost in “magic find” with the gear set.

The way I assumed magic find works, that means I should be finding more than twice as many valuable items, given an equal number of kills/“opportunities” to do so, than I would with my normal gear. Right?

The problem: I have used this gear set extensively, to give it an honest statistical chance to pan out as I assumed it would. I am talking several weeks of use, switching between this gear and the normal zerker set I use for farming. I am telling you, it is NOT panning out. I have noticed absolutely no difference between the amount of gear dropped, and the relative quality of it, when I am using the magic find gear vs other gear sets. If anything, I honestly seem to do better on the loot farming with the NON-magic find stuff.

I know it is dangerous to make conclusions based on antecdotal evidence when dealing with statistic probability. But the gear should give me a HUGE statistical boost in finds (more than 2X), and I have given it an honest long try to do so….I’m telling you…it ain’t working. At least, it isn’t doing what I assumed it was supposed to….

Anyone else experienced this? Do I misunderstand how magic find is supposed to work?

It would be interesting to keep stats based on the number of kills made in-game, vs the number of total items found, their relative quality, etc….when using magic find gear vs normal gear. But I am wayyy too lazy and indifferent to do so. I can tell you that in my case the numbers have not been panning out, and I have no idea why.

Statistically speaking, 100% MF will double your chances at better loot, but it is a fallacy to assume that means double the good loot. Random is random. The answer is in the statement. Even random nature can be random. Even with say a 99% chance to get a blue can give a person no blues every single time. Luck plays a huge factor here. Random chance should never EVER be relied on in any form of statistical analysis.

Personally, I stopped even caring about it. I used to at least use pirate runes, but even with that I decided to just go for improving my build. It’s fine if others want to, and I wish them luck. However, I just feel like it isn’t worth my time as long as luck still dictates the outcome. Maybe if at some point it introduces a mechanic where you get a green or higher after X kills, I will revisit it, but until then I will ignore it.

I’ve had similar results with the same class and same gear makeup. Though I believe my math got my magic find gear even higher.

I farm Orr events on my engineer in magic find gear. I get more rares farming Orr mobs in my Zerker gear on my Ranger.

I don’t get it…

Drysdale.3826:

I’ve had similar results with the same class and same gear makeup. Though I believe my math got my magic find gear even higher.

I farm Orr events on my engineer in magic find gear. I get more rares farming Orr mobs in my Zerker gear on my Ranger.

I don’t get it…

Maybe you do more damage faster on your ranger, so you’re tagging more targets that then qualify you for a reward? Just a guess.

Just search the forums for this topic as it has been beaten to death. Unless you’re farming mobs (such as in Orr) then you’re better off wearing other gear. MF is not useful in dungeons in most scenarios.

Ayrilana.1396:

Just search the forums for this topic as it has been beaten to death. Unless you’re farming mobs (such as in Orr) then you’re better off wearing other gear. MF is not useful in dungeons in most scenarios.

It is very useful for trolling other 4 players.

LinkR….

You are right about random chance…

But the laws of stats say that if you do indeed have a 100% improved(double chance) of something happening, given enough statistic samples, that is exactly what will happen. If you flip a coin enough times, you will indeed wind up with exactly heads half the time and tails half the time.

My contention is that I have done enough farming that the results from a 143% improvement in magic find would have to be apparent. They are not. So I am wondering if I (we?) have an erroenous understanding of how the magic find system and the stat bolstering works….

You can be unlucky, yes. But statistically…not forever. If that makes sense.

To the others, I have only used the gear mob event farming in Orr. I would not take it into dungeons, as I suck more than enough with my other gear….LOL.

Vayne.8563:

Drysdale.3826:

I’ve had similar results with the same class and same gear makeup. Though I believe my math got my magic find gear even higher.

I farm Orr events on my engineer in magic find gear. I get more rares farming Orr mobs in my Zerker gear on my Ranger.

I don’t get it…

Maybe you do more damage faster on your ranger, so you’re tagging more targets that then qualify you for a reward? Just a guess.

If one person has 100% MF (doubling the drop rate) and another with zerker gear, but the capability to kill twice as fast as last guy (to the millisecond) it will be equal. I find they generally balance no matter how you balance your stats.

MF is not useful in any situation.

Farming mobs in open world doesn’t give you anything of real value not to mention the speed at which you kill those mobs is vastly decreased due to having the mf stats nerfing your dps which negates your mf in the first place.

MF does not apply to chests of any type and the real valuable items comes in chests.

LinkR.6190:

Vayne.8563:

Drysdale.3826:

I’ve had similar results with the same class and same gear makeup. Though I believe my math got my magic find gear even higher.

I farm Orr events on my engineer in magic find gear. I get more rares farming Orr mobs in my Zerker gear on my Ranger.

I don’t get it…

Maybe you do more damage faster on your ranger, so you’re tagging more targets that then qualify you for a reward? Just a guess.

If one person has 100% MF (doubling the drop rate) and another with zerker gear, but the capability to kill twice as fast as last guy (to the millisecond) it will be equal. I find they generally balance no matter how you balance your stats.

This is a good point…kill speed definitely drops with the magic find gear…

But when mob farming in Orr, inevitably in a large group, all that matters is scoring a “hit” on the target before the group brings it down. It matters not how much you actually contribute to DPSing it down. That is where the flame thrower excells…you can easily damage the entire mob.

Apologies if this has been beaten to death. I brought up the topic because I don’t think magic find actually works the way we are assuming it does….

It depends on what you do all day. If you only run dungeons and farm world boss chests all day, go without magic find. If you actually roam around the world, go magic find with offensive stats assuming you have enough survivability. If you don’t have enough survivability, then it is probably best to go without magic find.

There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, skritting lies, and statistics. Mark Twain

You farm Orr events. As long as you can tag enough mobs then your damage output doesn’t matter. Most MF gear has power so all you’re sacrificing is survivability (normally not an issue in zerg events) and crit (not noticeable in zerg events).

MF increases the likelihood of getting a higher rarity in drops. It will not increase the number of drops. It’s impact will likely be less noticeable due to the low drop rates of rares and exotics. If exotics have a 1% drop rate (a guess) then 200% MF will give you 3%. Not very significant.

I also want to add that people who claim they got nothing while wearing MF gear but almost immediately got an exotic after removing it should research statistical probability.

The Stain.4169:

If you flip a coin enough times, you will indeed wind up with exactly heads half the time and tails half the time.

As said here
http://www.shodor.org/interactivate/discussions/TheoreticalVsExperimental/
“Theoretical probability is a way of estimating what could happen based on the information that you have; it is a calculation. Theoretical probability cannot predict what the actual results will be, but it does give you an idea of what is likely to happen in a situation.”

You are not wrong in your assessment then EVENTUALLY that increased probability will reveal concrete results. However, as you said, it would take a long time.

The problem here is that you are a human, not a computer. It will take far longer then you will be capable of comprehending to even notice the difference. Manually killing things will take so long in fact, this change in probability will seem almost non existent to us mortals. The only thing you can do is have faith in the math. It’s up to each of us to determine if we truly believe in “theoretical probability”.

Logically, it exists. However, you need to ask yourself: will you play long enough to actually experience it?

DeathPanel.8362:

MF is not useful in any situation.

Farming mobs in open world doesn’t give you anything of real value not to mention the speed at which you kill those mobs is vastly decreased due to having the mf stats nerfing your dps which negates your mf in the first place.

MF does not apply to chests of any type and the real valuable items comes in chests.

BS.

Yes, wearing MF gear is not beneficial in dungeons, or in open world where you are killing mobs one at a time.

But absolutely, MF gear is beneficial when you are with many others and the mobs easily die in under 3 seconds.

The only place that works is in Cursed Shore at shelt/pen

I’ve been running near full MF since I got to 80 and started farming there in November. I’ve started tracking exotic drops rate since January. My count, at the end of mid March was +30 exotics. Since then I’ve had 10 more exotics drop.

MF absolutely works, up until the point you hit DR.

Doubling a tiny chance of something happening results in a slightly less tiny chance of something happening. Expecting MF gear to make valuable loot rain from the sky will lead to disappointment. My preference is to use equipment that enhances survival and slaying capabilities, leaving loot gathering enhancements to consumables.

If you get slightly better loot but suffer damage and WP fees from being brought down more often, is that better in the long run from killing more enemies without dying?

Proof of all my exotic drops with MF gear. This doesn’t include all the ones I got in the last month

http://imgur.com/a/DRo8F

Vol.5241:

Proof of all my exotic drops with MF gear. This doesn’t include all the ones I got in the last month

http://imgur.com/a/DRo8F

Yea, i can see that big message there:“Here, for wearing your MF you have been rewarded with exotic.”

Sovta.4719:

Vol.5241:

Proof of all my exotic drops with MF gear. This doesn’t include all the ones I got in the last month

http://imgur.com/a/DRo8F

Yea, i can see that big message there:“Here, for wearing your MF you have been rewarded with exotic.”

Be sarcastic if you want, but 30 exotic drops in 3 months while similar players only have 2-3 in half the hours I have in game just shows that MF works.

Sadly, there is just a good a chance (if not more likely) that you are one of the lucky individuals who had good results with loot. For all we all know, you could have successfully gotten those items even without the gear. We will never know.

Vol.5241:

Sovta.4719:

Vol.5241:

Proof of all my exotic drops with MF gear. This doesn’t include all the ones I got in the last month

http://imgur.com/a/DRo8F

Yea, i can see that big message there:“Here, for wearing your MF you have been rewarded with exotic.”

Be sarcastic if you want, but 30 exotic drops in 3 months while similar players only have 2-3 in half the hours I have in game just shows that MF works.

Link me theirs screenshot please?

It does work, I get similar drops to what Vol.5241 has been getting and I have a MF set for just pent/shelt. Also, one of these drops was a warhorn precursor at penitent. Though for it to work well, you need to make sure you actually stay alive. So basically, find a point of balance where you can have the most MF but still not die if you do open world PvE.

Vol.5241:

Be sarcastic if you want, but 30 exotic drops in 3 months while similar players only have 2-3 in half the hours I have in game just shows that MF works.

“I buy two tickets at a time and I won the lottery” is not proof that if you buy two lottery tickets instead of one then you will win the jackpot. It just means that you were lucky.

I have been rocking MF since lvl 20. Even though it says it doesn’t effect chests and ores I have seen better quality gear from chests and more gems when I am mining while I rock it. Not only that, I get alot more of masterwork gear drops than I do without MF.

I havn’t found an exotic yet and I don’t expect to because my luck in drops on any MMORPG is poor. :P

From wiki:
“Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example, if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get, but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.”

Sovta.4719:

Vol.5241:

Sovta.4719:

Vol.5241:

Proof of all my exotic drops with MF gear. This doesn’t include all the ones I got in the last month

http://imgur.com/a/DRo8F

Yea, i can see that big message there:“Here, for wearing your MF you have been rewarded with exotic.”

Be sarcastic if you want, but 30 exotic drops in 3 months while similar players only have 2-3 in half the hours I have in game just shows that MF works.

Link me theirs screenshot please?

No screenshots, anecdotal accounts here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Exotic-drops/first#post1479432

Lots of people with under 5 exotic drops.

tolunart.2095:

Vol.5241:

Be sarcastic if you want, but 30 exotic drops in 3 months while similar players only have 2-3 in half the hours I have in game just shows that MF works.

“I buy two tickets at a time and I won the lottery” is not proof that if you buy two lottery tickets instead of one then you will win the jackpot. It just means that you were lucky.

30 exotic drops in 3 months is lucky? I don’t know about you but that’s a pretty big sample size considering the reports I read of other’s drop rates.

I have gotten 3 exotics in 1 hour – THAT is lucky.

No one is arguing that MF flat out does not work. It isn’t a dummy stat that has no affect at all. The problem here is that luck is not evenly distributed to everyone. Some people will live the high life, while the rest of us squirm for rares. It’s arrogant to expect the same results for everyone.

This thread is reopened just so people can update their block list.

LinkR.6190:

No one is arguing that MF flat out does not work. It isn’t a dummy stat that has no affect at all. The problem here is that luck is not evenly distributed to everyone. Some people will live the high life, while the rest of us squirm for rares. It’s arrogant to expect the same results for everyone.

It’s because of player habits.

If you had two players both farming in shelt/pen for 1 hour with full Mf, they would have the same rate.

If you had two players farming, one in shelt/pen and another in FSG, then obviously the latter will have poor drops. That’s because kill rate/h is lower.

The two important considerations when it comes to MF gear:
1.) Kill/rate per hour – Lots of people do shelt/pen, and so your kill/rate per hour is high. Mobs die quickly. Events spawn quickly. Compare that with a guy who wears MF gear solo’ing sparks for lodestones – their drop rate isn’t high because it takes longer to kill mobs
2.) DR – Once you hit DR, you are screwed. This is why I don’t buy MF boosters – it’s very easy and quick to hit DR in that it will negate your MF gear.

Vol.5241:

30 exotic drops in 3 months is lucky? I don’t know about you but that’s a pretty big sample size considering the reports I read of other’s drop rates.

I have gotten 3 exotics in 1 hour – THAT is lucky.

It’s anecdotal evidence and doesn’t indicate anything other than you got lucky because when comparing your results to others there are many more variables than % MF / no MF.

For example if player A attacks single targets and occasionally catches 2-3 at once while player B uses AOE attacks to kill 6-10 enemies at a time, player B has many more chances for loot and over time will probably collect more loot than player A.

If you want to truly test the results, you need to organize several groups of three players each. The groups would consist of identical classes using the same equipment, weapons and skills, with the only difference being 0%/100%/200% magic find. The groups travel together and attack the same enemies, and track the loot that drops for each player over a period of several months. Then compare each group’s drops and average all the groups to find something resembling the typical results for different MF levels.

“I got lots of loot, this guy didn’t” doesn’t indicate anything beyond the statement itself.

tolunart.2095:

Vol.5241:

30 exotic drops in 3 months is lucky? I don’t know about you but that’s a pretty big sample size considering the reports I read of other’s drop rates.

I have gotten 3 exotics in 1 hour – THAT is lucky.

It’s anecdotal evidence and doesn’t indicate anything other than you got lucky because when comparing your results to others there are many more variables than % MF / no MF.

For example if player A attacks single targets and occasionally catches 2-3 at once while player B uses AOE attacks to kill 6-10 enemies at a time, player B has many more chances for loot and over time will probably collect more loot than player A.

If you want to truly test the results, you need to organize several groups of three players each. The groups would consist of identical classes using the same equipment, weapons and skills, with the only difference being 0%/100%/200% magic find. The groups travel together and attack the same enemies, and track the loot that drops for each player over a period of several months. Then compare each group’s drops and average all the groups to find something resembling the typical results for different MF levels.

“I got lots of loot, this guy didn’t” doesn’t indicate anything beyond the statement itself.

Fair enough, but then if we’re going to use that kind of rationale then it’s only fair to say that we don’t know if MF gear works or doesn’t work. It’s not fair to be one-sided to that people will just say “MF gear doesn’t work at all”

I would suggest playing a magic find warrior as you would get way more “Tags” and mobility/speed

Yeah, I feel that it is worth it. I don’t use explorer armor though. I say “feel” because I’ve never done any actual test to compare the quality of my drops, I just know that I usually get more fine materials in a span of 30min when I’m wearing MF gear. SO take this with a grain of salt. (no, I don’t wear MF in dungeons)

My MF gear.

level 76-78 exotic berserker gear (the difference between level 80 exotic gear is minimal, plus you can transmute them with basic stones) I lose 18% MF, but I like the little bit of extra damage gained, and the armor looks better.

- 5 Sup runes of the pirate = 50% MF
- 1 superior rune of the traveler = 10% MF
-5 masterwork trinkets with an exquisite opal jewel= 35%
- 1 ascended amulet with 20% MF infusion – 20%
- sup sigil of luck with 25 stacks = 15%
- exotic weapon with 6% MF (after sigil of luck) = 6%
136% MF without any other outside buffs

JJBigs.8456:

I would suggest playing a magic find warrior as you would get way more “Tags” and mobility/speed

Warrior is the worst class for tagging – I’ve tried it.

The best weapons are dual axe and greatsword. Greatsword is a stationary weapon. Axe is good but little to no range.

The best classes I hear are guard, engi and necro. I use guardian because of the great staff/gs combo. I don’t find any other class with the aoe spam, mobility and survivability for tagging.

Vol.5241:

tolunart.2095:

Vol.5241:

30 exotic drops in 3 months is lucky? I don’t know about you but that’s a pretty big sample size considering the reports I read of other’s drop rates.

I have gotten 3 exotics in 1 hour – THAT is lucky.

It’s anecdotal evidence and doesn’t indicate anything other than you got lucky because when comparing your results to others there are many more variables than % MF / no MF.

For example if player A attacks single targets and occasionally catches 2-3 at once while player B uses AOE attacks to kill 6-10 enemies at a time, player B has many more chances for loot and over time will probably collect more loot than player A.

If you want to truly test the results, you need to organize several groups of three players each. The groups would consist of identical classes using the same equipment, weapons and skills, with the only difference being 0%/100%/200% magic find. The groups travel together and attack the same enemies, and track the loot that drops for each player over a period of several months. Then compare each group’s drops and average all the groups to find something resembling the typical results for different MF levels.

“I got lots of loot, this guy didn’t” doesn’t indicate anything beyond the statement itself.

Fair enough, but then if we’re going to use that kind of rationale then it’s only fair to say that we don’t know if MF gear works or doesn’t work. It’s not fair to be one-sided to that people will just say “MF gear doesn’t work at all”

I don’t know if it works or not. But because I don’t use it, it’s irrelevant to me. I don’t claim to have or even want proof one way or the other.

I’ll have to defer to official word on it, which isn’t much beyond “it gives you a chance to get better loot.”

Tinboy.7954:

It depends on what you do all day. If you only run dungeons and farm world boss chests all day, go without magic find. If you actually roam around the world, go magic find with offensive stats assuming you have enough survivability. If you don’t have enough survivability, then it is probably best to go without magic find.

With magic find at roughly 305 I am finding about 1 or 2 gold drops a day, (when i do zergs with a high body count.) as opposed to seeing virtually none without it.

I am really not sure how MF works for sure. I am not sure when it caps, or how DR affects it. It’s like a lot of things in this game. = needlessly shrouded in mystery.

I’ve never gotten an exotic drop. the best drops I got were not worth close 50 silver on the TP. Over time it adds up, but the drops are underwhelming anyway.

I recently complained that drop rates in fractals have tanked. That I used to find 2-3 rares per run but now find 1 every 2 runs.
After reading this, it just occurred to me that back then, I was running with 120% mf and now I have like 20%. doesn’t completely make up the difference, but it does get closer.
then again, I just did a fractal run last night (20% mf) and had 6 rares drop before we even started fractal #2’s boss. rng.

I made a rng equalizer for the game I made. people were complaining that the rng was too random :P and giving streaks of like 10-in-a-row and stuff like that for equal odds. I set it up so that the longer the streak, the less likely it’ll happen again. but that cut both ways, no 10-in-a-row streaks in their favor, either.

With my gear I run 171 MF before any bonuses from guild, food, etc. I use it all the time except in WvW.

Rares happen pretty regularly for me in my opinion, and to date I’ve found 5 exotics just off mobs without hardcore farming Orr all the time. One of which was before I was wearing a large amount of MF.

MF gear is mostly damage based gear. The same character in zerker vs MF gear is not going to kill the mobs twice as fast. You also have to consider that the Diminishing Returns are going to kick in based on how fast/many mobs you’ve been killing, meaning MF will make the most out of the mobs you’re “allowed” to loot before the kitten DR kicks in.

To OP; Bombs are better for AoE farming if the mobs are close and focused on you or whoever you’re farming with knows to stack on you. Flamethrower is pretty bad for dps and can only hit 3 targets at a time.

It’s funny all this mf thing.

I have a ranger that I leveled only for farming orr, full traveler gear, mf on everything, 30%mf food constantly up and mf sigil on weapons.
Yesterday while farming orr I was getting only those skulls that are sold as junk and green or blue stuff and I also had my last mf booster up (50%). This happened until the mf booster ended and at about the same time the mf food ended too.
I said to myself “I finish this event and I’m done for today so there is no need to use food again”.
Guess what?
4 rares dropped on the shelter camp defend event. And I farmed that event more than 5 times before with the 80% mf bonuses from the food and booster and nothing dropped.
I’ll quit farming because it sucks these days

The thing is you will not get double drops. You get double chances of higher level loot from a mobs loot table. Which translates to : if a mob has in its loot table an exotic drop rate of 0.05% with 100% MF that drop rate will go up to 0.1%. Imagine a dice with 100 sides. If you threw it, 95 of the sides gave kitteny drops and 5 sides gave you good loot. Now you get 10 sides to give you good loot but that doesnt mean that when you throw it you will get the 10 sides of good loot. There are still 90 sides that give kitteny loot. thats Random Number Generator (RNG) for you. MF just makes your chances better. It doesnt guarantee anything.

I think every 100% MF you get doubles the chance of a rare——>higher drop…sounds good right?

Wrong…

If the chance is 1 in 10000 to begin with 100% MF just makes it 2 in 10000, so you go from 0.001% chance to 0.002% chance, its laughable…

You are far, far better killing stuff faster with AoE damage and skills which target multiple opponents, so you want to go all out attack/damage to kill as much as possible if farming loot.

This will make you far, far more money than MF which is totally useless really in GW2…

As Meglobob already said, it is not worth it for the exotics and rares. But if you do a lot of Orr events for the tier 6 materials and Heavy Moldy Bags, it totally is. Also you drop more greens and blues to sell at TP or the NPC merchants. I do that quite a lot and have noticed a not so small difference in crafting material drops and also silver gain. I run around Orr with around +200% magic find from gear and food.

They should have made MF an addition to gear like agony resistance. So that you have any stat set of gear you want and the addition of MF is optional. Of course everyone except fractal runners that need agony resist, would use it. But at least in this way it is not so much a greedy stat but an additional stat that is infused to the gear you have.
Even better, if they would boost up the drop rates and do away with it. However I don’t see that happening.