Guild Wars 2

I thought there would be some moaning and groaning after I read the post.

To me this is great news. MF is something that should be built and earned as you play the game and advance your characters. Smacking insane amounts on gear and then farming an area is just dumb design. For instance, gaining MF through something like achievements, and then building it through increments is smart design.

The ‘I like to stack numbers and then get bad-kitten loot drops from farming’ crowd can say what they want, but this is a move in the right direction. Honestly I thought this crowd would be happy that they no longer have to stack these items like mad, and be glad they can now choose viable combat options on their gear.

Magic find isn’t a joke to me. It is a very useful tool that I use to farm the higher level mats I’ve been slowly collecting for my legendary. Magic find, however, does not affect chests or the mystic forge. So if you were using it to open chests for better loot — there’s your problem.

My main currently runs with 96% magic find plus the stacks of magic find I get from my greatsword at .6% per kill (max 25). I find significantly more greens and yellows (and exotics on rare occasion) than I do running my main combat armor.

Besides, they plan to change to looting and rewards from Champions as well. Details on that are listed in the blog. They recognize that the rewards are not big enough so they are improving what is chanced for each one. So that’s not even a factor in the magic find issue.

I’m really wanting some sort of response from ArenaNet on either a blog, through a video, or on this post to answer the questions I posted and the ones you all posted. The little tid-bit they gave us was simply throwing fuel onto a blazing fire. And the fact that they said “near future” worries me.

I’m guessing most of the players that are upset about this didn’t play GW1. Anet is a great gaming company, except for one glaring fault. They spend 90% of their time worrying about the loot we get and the quality. They won’t change, it will get worse, they are never happy, and we will never convince them otherwise. If it really upsets ya, then this game is not for you. I don’t like it, but learned to just let it roll off. Oh I’ll complain now and then, but I know it is falling on deaf ears.

Katai.6240:

MF gear has been a design flaw from the beginning. The fact that you have a second set of armor strictly used for farming should be a huge indication that there’s something wrong. You aren’t playing with your optimal build. You are purposefully taking a penalty (one that directly affects your party-mates) so you get better drops. The better situation is that you use the build that is optimal for your character, not pigeon-holed into using junk armor just for drops.

Now, if ANET is smart, they would handle it this way. Ascended trinkets can be traded for a different Ascended item. Ring for a Ring, Amulet for an Amulet. If the trinket has an infusion, then you also get to choose a replacement infusion.

Magic Find Exotic armor and weapons can be traded in for the same piece of armor/weapon of a different (common) stat combination. The new piece will have the same skin as the one used to trade. Not sure what to do about Runes/Sigils…

They’ll replace MF with some other random unrelated and harmless stat. Like exploration xp, or a 1% karma bonus etc.. All they had to do was cap it. But that would mean they would need to rework armor/weapon stats, effectiveness etc.. etc. It was easier for them to remove it.

I can predict the answers, but 2 more questions to the original post:

5. Will the use of transmutation crystals in a magic find set be refunded?

6. Will any gold spent on purchasing the celestial recipes introduced in the most recent content update be refunded?

With regards to point 6, the primary reason for purchasing these recipes was due to the presence of +MF%.

heheh no I do mean using MF on general creatures. Example 1 hour farming on orrian Sparks produced a lot of shocking crystals, an amount of emerald shards and 2 fortunes. Maybe you are lucky but of the most I find magic find is a let down. As for the updated rewards to fighting champions, to be honest this should have been the idea from the beginning and not as in a revamp. Its basic sense to add better rewards to higher creatures, its something gamers have been weaned on since the Nintendo bosses in Mario etc. Killing a boss means bigger points – so why is it Anet have only now discovered that the loot on high level creatures is just terrible when we as players knew this ages ago? But my point still stands, even without magic gear, the levels of loot from the likes of creatures and going to what we find in chests as a " pre-determined loot " from chests etc is very low indeed. I am not saying lodestones raining down like globby goo but my god, the % just now is like looking for chicken teeth. I just hope if and when this revamp happens, the percentage if a lot higher than what they did with skins in dragon coffers

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Katai.6240:

MF gear has been a design flaw from the beginning. The fact that you have a second set of armor strictly used for farming should be a huge indication that there’s something wrong. You aren’t playing with your optimal build. You are purposefully taking a penalty (one that directly affects your party-mates) so you get better drops. The better situation is that you use the build that is optimal for your character, not pigeon-holed into using junk armor just for drops.

Now, if ANET is smart, they would handle it this way. Ascended trinkets can be traded for a different Ascended item. Ring for a Ring, Amulet for an Amulet. If the trinket has an infusion, then you also get to choose a replacement infusion.

Magic Find Exotic armor and weapons can be traded in for the same piece of armor/weapon of a different (common) stat combination. The new piece will have the same skin as the one used to trade. Not sure what to do about Runes/Sigils…

They’ll replace MF with some other random unrelated and harmless stat. Like exploration xp, or a 1% karma bonus etc.. All they had to do is cap it. But that would mean they would need to rework armor stats, effectiveness etc.. etc. It was easier for them to remove it.

They wouldn’t do that, because then it’s still the same issue of not being “effective” enough in combat.

That replacement makes the armor set completely worthless, though. If the players don’t give a rats patootie about Karma bonus, that armor is better salvaged for scrap.

The point is that they are removing a stat that people specifically sought. By removing that stat from armor, the associated gear is completely worthless to the person who owns it.

It’s like buying a Windows gaming computer, and halfway through the year, someone swaps it out with a Mac. Sure, it’s basically the same thing, but now you can’t use any of the software you used to use, and most of your games don’t work.

MF is the biggest question for me from this blog post. I, too, have spent a lot of time and money (and laurels) on a 2nd set of armor with full MF. This includes ascended MF earrings, rings, necklace (with infusion), back piece, weapons and now 2 pieces of celestial armor. Will I get reimbursed for the time and money put into my gear? Should I even bother getting the rest of the celestial pieces? I hope we can get some answers sooner rather than later.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m hoping this means they will relax the overly punitive base drop rates. Under the current system the choice is to equip massive MF in order to get anything approaching a decent drop rate. In other words, MF was essentially a farming tax that had to be paid to get a better return on time. I’m happy to see the tax go away.

My +100% Magic Find (60% from 6 Runes, 20% from MF Infusion, 14% from Onyx Rings, the rest from miscellaneous smaller bonuses from Sygyzy, Quiver of a Thousand Arrows, etc.) feels about right to me, which doubles the existing drop odds. If ANet were to double the existing drop rates, I’d feel better about losing my Magic Find bonuses, but I still prefer it to be a choice, have no interest in consumable temporary bonuses (which I hate using and maintaining) and have concerns about how ANet is going to compensate me for the Magic Find gear I have (in particular, the 40 laurels I spent on Magic Find infusions and the 12 Magic Find runes I have).

I feel valid compensation for the loss of magic find armor in gear would be:

1) Refund the laurels for any gear bought with laurels with Magic Find (they can exempt Celestial gear because I doubt most people got it just for the Magic Find). In particular, the +20% Magic Find infusion and gear like the Golden Lotus should have the laurel cost refunded. (As others have pointed out, they should also get refunds for the other things spend on ascended gear).

2) Change the armor type of Magic Find armor and jewelry to a random type containing the same non-Magic Find modifiers (such that Explorers armor could become Berserkers or Knight’s). Replace runes and sigils with other runes and sigils at random (not including the slaying sigils and with the replacement rune containing the non-Magic Find modifier of the rune set it replaces — so that a Rune of the Traveler could be replaced at random by a Rune of the Dolyak, Ice, Lich, Sanctuary, Soldier, Speed, Warrior, Wurm, or Necromancer). Make the changed armor no longer soulbound unless it is reequpped so that it can be sold. This will allow players to sell their spare sets and changed armor they don’t want without flooding the market with hundreds of identical sets of armor. People with Runes of the Noble should get refunded.

Kilaelya.1420:

Will I get reimbursed for the time and money put into my gear?

I truly doubt it. It would set a bad precedent (in their eyes). “experience in game may change..” will be their answer.

XGhoul.7426:

Glad they got rid of magic find (see posts that were made a long time ago) since it basically meant your party was carrying you on dungeon runs because they weren’t being done effectively by having 1-2 ppl running full MF while the rest up the group picks up the slack running normal gear.

kitten .

Okie dokie. First flaw with your argument: This essentially means that Anet should stop people from running dungeons if they don’t have full exotic “Best stat combo” (which is subjective and depends on build) gear. Basically someone who hasn’t managed to get full exotics yet, shouldn’t go in dungeons (which could help them get more exotics). People running support builds don’t do as much damage, shouldn’t be allowed to run dungeons. People using mf foods shouldn’t be allowed because hey, they could be using + power foods instead. They’re not as damaging and effective as possible.

Second, you do not have to run a dungeon with anyone. You pick your party. If you don’t want certain people/classes/stats in your party, then don’t put people with those in your party. Don’t join parties where those are acceptable. Don’t do pugs. Cause to be completely honest, we all know how pugs go. Nobody joins a pug expecting the best best best group EVER. You join a pug knowing it could be REALLY bad. But you join it anyway. Your choice, you had other options, you’ve got no right to complain when someone in your pug wears mf gear. For the record, you can still get through most, if not all, dungeons in mf/less than perfect gear.

Not all parties give a kitten about this. Plenty of people/groups don’t care what armor you wear in the dungeon. It’s only those people who want say, 4 zerker warriors and a mesmer for y’know cof p1 and stuff like that who probably would throw a fit over someone wearing mf armor. In which case, I wouldn’t be allowed in the party even with my dungeon armor on because I’m a ranger. And clearly people being so picky and elitist about who joins their party SHOULD be a bigger problem than people using mf armor.

A lot of people with mf armor don’t even use it in dungeons. Like me, a lot of people use mf armor solely for farming in the open world. When we go to do dungeons, we switch to our main fighting armor.

Having MF in a game makes all gear pointless but that gear that has the MF.
It works like this you run MF so you can get better gear and items faster but once you get these items if you wanted more items / better gear (not so much a problem with GW2) you must keep running MF. So in the end of things you will be running MF gear to get better items that you will never use because your better off using MF to get items.

Katai.6240:

That replacement makes the armor set completely worthless, though. If the players don’t give a rats patootie about Karma bonus, that armor is better salvaged for scrap.

The point is that they are removing a stat that people specifically sought. By removing that stat from armor, the associated gear is completely worthless to the person who owns it.

It’s like buying a Windows gaming computer, and halfway through the year, someone swaps it out with a Mac. Sure, it’s basically the same thing, but now you can’t use any of the software you used to use, and most of your games don’t work.

Yeah exactly..this is like people are saying “Well they might switch it to another stat for your compensation” and I’m like..that’s not really good enough. I mean when I did CM runs to get runes of the noble, or spend gold specifically on things with mf stats..When I used my pristine relics and laurels for mf gear…That’s what I paid for. If you go to a restaurant and order a sandwich, and they come out and give you a salad, aren’t you gonna be confused and possibly upset because they gave you the wrong thing? It’s the same sort of deal..Simply changing the mf stat to something else (even if we get to choose it) is giving us one thing when we paid and worked for something else. Something that, mind you, up til now has been perfectly viable and useful and encouraged by Anet and gw2. Now they suddenly change their minds and want to make all of our work and money go to waste? It’s just not cool. Even if that salad was a lot tastier, worth more, etc than the sandwich..I want the kittening sandwich I ordered.

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I’m guessing most of the players that are upset about this didn’t play GW1. Anet is a great gaming company, except for one glaring fault. They spend 90% of their time worrying about the loot we get and the quality. They won’t change, it will get worse, they are never happy, and we will never convince them otherwise. If it really upsets ya, then this game is not for you. I don’t like it, but learned to just let it roll off. Oh I’ll complain now and then, but I know it is falling on deaf ears.

It does upset me — and many others — because of the time spent into getting magic find gear due to its usefulness. As I said, I use it to farm for tier 6 mats and to make a little more money on selling the higher end items on the market to spend on other things that are more useful to me.

I don’t believe you have a right to tell me that “this game is not for me.” I really enjoy this game — I love it. But this is a significant change and will cause a lot of chaos no matter how they do it. Completely eliminating magic find in gear and making it only a permanent account-wide bonus is too big of a change to suddenly throw out there at this point in the game. People who spent time and money (gold or gems) on magic find gear are going to lose a lot of their hard work if ArenaNet isn’t careful. It’d be like working and farming for months and spending much gold and laurels to get a legendary and suddenly that legendary is completely removed from the game. Where’d all your hard work go to?

Informality.1279:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I’m guessing most of the players that are upset about this didn’t play GW1. Anet is a great gaming company, except for one glaring fault. They spend 90% of their time worrying about the loot we get and the quality. They won’t change, it will get worse, they are never happy, and we will never convince them otherwise. If it really upsets ya, then this game is not for you. I don’t like it, but learned to just let it roll off. Oh I’ll complain now and then, but I know it is falling on deaf ears.

It does upset me — and many others — because of the time spent into getting magic find gear due to its usefulness. As I said, I use it to farm for tier 6 mats and to make a little more money on selling the higher end items on the market to spend on other things that are more useful to me.

I don’t believe you have a right to tell me that “this game is not for me.” I really enjoy this game — I love it. But this is a significant change and will cause a lot of chaos no matter how they do it. Completely eliminating magic find in gear and making it only a permanent account-wide bonus is too big of a change to suddenly throw out there at this point in the game. People who spent time and money (gold or gems) on magic find gear are going to lose a lot of their hard work if ArenaNet isn’t careful. It’d be like working and farming for months and spending much gold and laurels to get a legendary and suddenly that legendary is completely removed from the game. Where’d all your hard work go to?

Watch out, don’t give them any ideas…

I personally don’t care so much about the gold aspect.. Sure i spent 30-50G on the armor and runes. It would be nice to get a credit for the runes (choose 1 of your choice etc) but I do care about the money and fractal tokens used to purchase the rings and accessories.

MF Necklace – 50 Laurels (that’s 2 months of my dailies)
MF Accessories – 24 Guild Tokens + 10g (4 weeks of guild tokens)
MF Rings – 20 Pristine Relics (about 1 month worth of fractals)

These are the things i care about most as this is where and why i spent my time farming the items.

Informality.1279:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I’m guessing most of the players that are upset about this didn’t play GW1. Anet is a great gaming company, except for one glaring fault. They spend 90% of their time worrying about the loot we get and the quality. They won’t change, it will get worse, they are never happy, and we will never convince them otherwise. If it really upsets ya, then this game is not for you. I don’t like it, but learned to just let it roll off. Oh I’ll complain now and then, but I know it is falling on deaf ears.

It does upset me — and many others — because of the time spent into getting magic find gear due to its usefulness. As I said, I use it to farm for tier 6 mats and to make a little more money on selling the higher end items on the market to spend on other things that are more useful to me.

I don’t believe you have a right to tell me that “this game is not for me.” I really enjoy this game — I love it. But this is a significant change and will cause a lot of chaos no matter how they do it. Completely eliminating magic find in gear and making it only a permanent account-wide bonus is too big of a change to suddenly throw out there at this point in the game. People who spent time and money (gold or gems) on magic find gear are going to lose a lot of their hard work if ArenaNet isn’t careful. It’d be like working and farming for months and spending much gold and laurels to get a legendary and suddenly that legendary is completely removed from the game. Where’d all your hard work go to?

I like that while upset by the possible changes, you are able to present your critique and concern in a respectful manner. It’s really refreshing to see a civilized discussion for a change. And to that I’m hoping any additional tidbit of information a dev may want to share will come to this thread.

Amun Ra.6435:

Genavelle.9516:

kokiman.2364:

What is so fun about farming? I really don’t get it.

It’s not fun..It’s just a useful way to make money. And it’s an optional activity, so idk why it’s such an issue. It’s also really helpful when you’re say trying to make a legendary and need a lot of money, and a lot of tier 6 mats….

I find it very enjoyable.

Okay well cool. See? Some people find farming fun. So why should the way they enjoy the game suddenly just be thrown out cause Anet thinks we should all be playing one specific way.

Even if they cannot refund the gold portion of the gear (they can replace the runes and TIME LOCKED TOCKENS) I want my 2 months back.

MF Necklace – 50 Laurels (that’s 2 months of my dailies)
MF Accessories – 24 Guild Tokens + 10g (4 weeks of guild tokens)
MF Rings – 20 Pristine Relics (about 1 month worth of fractals)
These are the things i care about most as this is where and why i spent my time farming the items.

Give us a Ticket so we can purchase another item of our choice.
As for the Infusion on the Necklace I want a complete refund as the other two ‘Utility’ infusions mean nothing to me.

I am somewhat in the same boat, but I will gladly give all of it up to get the current mf out of group content.

nekodoken.5329:

Informality.1279:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

I’m guessing most of the players that are upset about this didn’t play GW1. Anet is a great gaming company, except for one glaring fault. They spend 90% of their time worrying about the loot we get and the quality. They won’t change, it will get worse, they are never happy, and we will never convince them otherwise. If it really upsets ya, then this game is not for you. I don’t like it, but learned to just let it roll off. Oh I’ll complain now and then, but I know it is falling on deaf ears.

It does upset me — and many others — because of the time spent into getting magic find gear due to its usefulness. As I said, I use it to farm for tier 6 mats and to make a little more money on selling the higher end items on the market to spend on other things that are more useful to me.

I don’t believe you have a right to tell me that “this game is not for me.” I really enjoy this game — I love it. But this is a significant change and will cause a lot of chaos no matter how they do it. Completely eliminating magic find in gear and making it only a permanent account-wide bonus is too big of a change to suddenly throw out there at this point in the game. People who spent time and money (gold or gems) on magic find gear are going to lose a lot of their hard work if ArenaNet isn’t careful. It’d be like working and farming for months and spending much gold and laurels to get a legendary and suddenly that legendary is completely removed from the game. Where’d all your hard work go to?

I like that while upset by the possible changes, you are able to present your critique and concern in a respectful manner. It’s really refreshing to see a civilized discussion for a change. And to that I’m hoping any additional tidbit of information a dev may want to share will come to this thread.

Yeah I DO wish they would give us more info. The main reason I think they haven’t is cause (as someone pointed out previously either here or another thread) it’s pretty obvious they haven’t been thinking about this for very long. I mean they JUST released a new armor set with mf in it. So it must have been very, very recently that they decided to entirely change up how mf works in the game. So I’m guessing it’s just the fact that it’s such a recent and new idea that they don’t have all the info and details figured out themselves yet. But then I kind of wish they would take more time to think over such big changes, and do it more gradually. When so many people use mf armor, and mf has been a big part of the game since day 1, I’m surprised they didn’t think about how much chaos and upset it would cause to suddenly announce something like this with zero details…

Anyways I’m hoping that after they did it anyways, they’ll manage to read some of the forum posts (with pretty well-thought out defenses of the current mf system/arguments about how switching is going to screw over tons of players) and maybe rethink this decision a little? Even if they’re solidly decided to go ahead with it, maybe they’ll decide to go about it much more slowly and really think through the consequences of doing this, and every little thing that needs to be addressed.

Genavelle.9516:

Evon Skyfyre.9673:

Katai.6240:

MF gear has been a design flaw from the beginning. The fact that you have a second set of armor strictly used for farming should be a huge indication that there’s something wrong. You aren’t playing with your optimal build. You are purposefully taking a penalty (one that directly affects your party-mates) so you get better drops. The better situation is that you use the build that is optimal for your character, not pigeon-holed into using junk armor just for drops.

Now, if ANET is smart, they would handle it this way. Ascended trinkets can be traded for a different Ascended item. Ring for a Ring, Amulet for an Amulet. If the trinket has an infusion, then you also get to choose a replacement infusion.

Magic Find Exotic armor and weapons can be traded in for the same piece of armor/weapon of a different (common) stat combination. The new piece will have the same skin as the one used to trade. Not sure what to do about Runes/Sigils…

They’ll replace MF with some other random unrelated and harmless stat. Like exploration xp, or a 1% karma bonus etc.. All they had to do is cap it. But that would mean they would need to rework armor stats, effectiveness etc.. etc. It was easier for them to remove it.

They wouldn’t do that, because then it’s still the same issue of not being “effective” enough in combat.

All smart alec comments (Mine) aside, I see this as a balance issue. Colin’s assertion it “makes us less effective” or words to that effect is Dev talk for either we rebalance the entire system of dungeons etc, or we remove the suspected cause. QED, they removed the suspected cause. In essence if the game were a bridge and balance was the river, during a flood they would try to lower the river, instead of fortifying the bridge. Or in auto mechanic terms, “To torque the bolt they strip it and back it off half a turn..” . I know I said humor aside, but either we find humor in this or run screaming. I’m tired of letting MMO’s ruin my day. They just aren’t worth it.

As for playing your optimum build, a noob in high mf gear is a still a noob in no mf gear after the nerf. It does not change the fact the group will still wipe. Nothing is solved a large portion of your customers are angrier than they were and all because they (anet) didn’t want to do extra work. Welcome to Live Alpha testing. MMO’s are like a petri dish. Select medium, add stimuli, watch results, make notes, and try again.

Azjenco.9425:

Honestly I thought this crowd would be happy that they no longer have to stack these items like mad, and be glad they can now choose viable combat options on their gear.

IF they doubled the drop rates to match what I get from +100% Magic Find gear (which feels about right to me) and IF they suitably compensate me and others for what we invested in Magic Find gear (which may have included laurels and doing dungeons for, for example, Noble Runes or Fractal Relic gear) and IF they give people a way to sell the spare sets of Exotic equipment they accumulated so they could have a Magic Find and non-Magic Find set without saturating the Trading Post and sending prices dropping (the way Traveler Runes have dropped today), then I would be reasonably satisfied with the change BUT I still think it was better off being a choice of trade-offs in the player’s hands rather than having it taken away from them because of the whining of people angry that other people were getting better drops than they were because they weren’t willing to make the same trade-offs.

The vast majority of complaints about Magic Find was by people who weren’t using it and were unhappy that other people were getting better stuff than they were. And that those people frequently asked for a way to tell if others were using Magic Find gear so they could exclude them suggests to me that the loss of effectiveness from using Magic Find gear was not significant enough that they could tell, based on actual effectiveness in the field, who was or wasn’t using it. Play your own characters and stop telling me how to play mine.

Letting people whine about what other people are doing so that ANet will nerf them and stop them is a really bad way to balance a game and keep everyone happey and has been happening across the game, including in PvP, WvW, farming, and so on. If I lose my Magic Find gear and the drop rate reverts to what it is without it, I’m probably going to give up on farming. If ANet is trying to frustrate the farmers out of the game, they seem to be doing a pretty good job of it to me.

Genavelle.9516:

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Surbrus.6942:

The only valid use of MF is if you are being a leech, letting other people kill the enemies for you, and simply tagging them. These leeches are bad for the group in some events where a champion or some such might scale up to account for more players being in the fight, even though some of them aren’t contributing to chipping away that scaled up HP pool.

So why don’t we ban engineers/healing support guardians/etc. from events too? Like MF users, they’re not contributing as much damage as the noble zerked 1-spammers.

Don’t forget anyone who hasn’t been able to finish getting a whole exotic set of armor yet. They’re not contributing as much. Clearly we should make dungeons/big events “full exotic (non mf or support) armor only” activities.

Yar…. Then lets ban people who are using MF food instead of “reansoable” foods like super-veggie pizza or orrian steak frittes. Then lets ban people with fewer than 4000 achievement points. Then lets ban players with broken armor from events, and ban players without repair kits from dungeons. And next, lets ban…

Where does this stop? People: USE COMMON SENSE.

I keep 2 sets of armor. One set of MF, built for general romping around. Then when I need my game face on for anything, I have my PVT armor.

…but I digress…

My main issue is again the account bonuses to magic find and karma. ESPECIALLY the Magic find, since that affects drop rates, which affects… what drops I get, and my odds of getting a Widget X. What is Widget X? It’s that hyper-valuable and rare item that I can sell for more than most people make on the TP in a month. It’s Dawn. It’s Dusk. It’s that account bound recipe that lets me print gold.

If Magic Find affects my chance of getting a Widget X, then anything that affects my magic find affects my ability to get income. Not just Widget X – even just simple material drops are influenced. With the permament account-wide bonus to magic find, I’m at an unfair advantage over players who are new to the game. I have a better chance of getting these these goods and that precious Widget X. I earn gold at a faster rate per hour in a way that’s not bound to gear, wealth, or skill.

I object to this strongly and vehemently. I’ve left games over this attitude. Well, not entirely this attitude, it has been more a symptom of a wider problem that boils down to entrenching eliteism into the game. Not just the ‘Show that you are T6 so we know you have skill’ from GW1 HA, but you make it a ‘Show that you are T6 so that we know you have the necessary buffs’.

If the decision is gear based magic find boosts need to go because they are a determent to the game, the same applies to food. And I’m ok with both going from the game. I’ve welcomed them for all they represented (Even ignoring the Magic Find aspect of the gear, I’ve welcomed it for other reasons).

If it’s gotta go, it’s gotta go, but don’t put it on the account. That entrenches eliteism into the structure of the game, and I despise games that do this. I should have spoke up with the WvW spendable points thing since that’s more of the same, but I’d given you the benefit of the doubt then. This is just repeating the same entrenchment in another area of the game. Guildwars 1 had none of that, not on any meaningfull level (you could max any of the title bound traits except Lux/Kurz in a weekend, and Lux/Kurz had weak returns after the first few quickly earned levels). If this trend continues in Guildwars 2, I will lose interest with it.
//Portable Corpse

So, we’ll have a 300%MF account bounded, instead of a single set? We’ll see that, I think they’ll revise the whole mechanism.

Meantime, with this little information I’d also like the idea of a straight refund in laurel/commendation for ascended trinkets and infusions.

This news disappoints me. I have 4 80’s and a level 77. The first thing I do when I get a character to 80 is set up their exotic gear. One set of DPS (zerker), one set of WvW (w tough), and a MF set. I have compelte sets for all the 80’s and I almost have the complete set for the 77.

If they pull MF out I’m not going to be a happy guy. I can’t see any way they can possibly compensate me for the trouble and expense I have gone through to get it for all my characters.

Surbrus.6942:

The only difference MF gear makes for you, is it means that you are doing less damage, killing things slower, getting fewer drops, but the magic find might make up for it. Its better to just use zerker stats, kill things faster, kill more things, and you’ll get just as much as someone in MF.

I got a Vial of Condensed Mists Essence from a second level Fractal run using Magic Find gear. I’ve gotten an exotic drop and plenty of rares in WvW where people complain about how unusual that is. I often get three rares from running The Frozen Maw, which takes as long as it’s going to take whether I’m in ‘Zerker gear or my Magic Find gear. Are ’Zerker stats going to help me do any of that better than I’ve been doing? Uh, no.

From the Wiki:

“Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.”

If the Magic Find bonus applies to each internal table “roll” and there are multiple “rolls” so that if there is a “roll” to check if a basic piece of equipment is Fine, and then another “roll” to see if the Fine is Masterwork, and then another roll to see if the Masterwork is a Rare, and another roll to see if the Rare is an Exotic, a +100% Magic Find is going to double each of those “rolls” and not simply double your chance of getting something better. In other words, if there are 4 rolls that you need to succeed on to get an exotic, you are not going to have just twice the chance of getting an exotic with a +100% Magic Find but 16 times the chance. Can you do events and dungeons 16 times faster in your ’Zerker gear than I can with my Magic Find gear?

Surbrus.6942:

The only valid use of MF is if you are being a leech, letting other people kill the enemies for you, and simply tagging them. These leeches are bad for the group in some events where a champion or some such might scale up to account for more players being in the fight, even though some of them aren’t contributing to chipping away that scaled up HP pool.

So it all boils down to your fear of being taken advantage of?

Personally, I want everyone wearing Magic Find gear because I want them to get the best loot possible when they play.

The only valid reason not to wear Magic Find gear is that you are too awful of a player to win a battle with anything other than maximized stats, and I say that as someone who turns with my keyboard and often activates skills with mouse clicks. If a few hundred attribute points mean the difference between success and failure for you, then you need to learn to play your character more effectively.

Is that fair of me to say that you are a horrible player? Probably not. But then it’s also no fair for you to assume the only reason why I have Magic Find gear is that I want to take advantage of others. Here’s a free clue — I spend a lot of my time running solo so the only one that my Magic Find gear might hurt most of the time is… me. And when I do play in group activities, I’d be quite pleased if everyone else was wearing Magic Find gear, too, as some of my friends do when we go farming together.

Couldn’t care less. Magic find is a gimmick mechanic anyway. I’m glad they’re doing away with it as a stat on gear and just putting it as a constant modify er to all characters. That’s a great decision and I like where they’re headed.

I bought/built my set a few weeks ago. I’m going to be bummed, but it’s really not ‘that’ big of a deal. I’ll be a little sad about the necklace and 2 rings I’ve bought to date, but oh well. It might be nice to have those laurels back to spend on other things, but I don’t expect anything, nor would I care if I got anything out of my special exotic set.

What I’d ‘really’ like is proper way for me to change the ‘look’ of whatever armor I end up wearing ‘on the fly’, and I’m sad to not see anything about that in the long blog post. So for the time being, my new MF set had a new look I hadn’t done before, and I’ll just keep the chest/legs/boots combo (like I do 3 other pieces that is another different look), and use Crystals to, yet again, merge those into whatever set I settle on.

But then there’s the whole new ascended gear. And if I want my ‘3 looks’, I’ll need to make 2 more chest, legs, shoes of the same type, just to have different looks, and carry them in my bag?

Oy. :\

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

They say very clearly in the blog post why they wanted to remove it. It’s not what GW2 is about. It’s an unnecessary trade-off. You’re still going to have magic find but it’ll just be account-wide and you won’t need to give up stats on your gear for it. How is that a problem?

Berk.8561:

I got a Vial of Condensed Mists Essence from a second level Fractal run using Magic Find gear. I’ve gotten an exotic drop and plenty of rares in WvW where people complain about how unusual that is. I often get three rares from running The Frozen Maw, which takes as long as it’s going to take whether I’m in ‘Zerker gear or my Magic Find gear. Are ’Zerker stats going to help me do any of that better than I’ve been doing? Uh, no.

From the Wiki:

“Everytime you kill a monster you roll on a number of tables, inside these tables are different rarity categories. Magic find increases the chances you will get higher categories. For example if there is a 1 in 10 category, and you have 200% magic find you will have 3/10 chances to get that category. This improves not just the rarity of the items you get but can also improve your chances at getting trophies and rare crafting materials like lodestones.”

If the Magic Find bonus applies to each internal table “roll” and there are multiple “rolls” so that if there is a “roll” to check if a basic piece of equipment is Fine, and then another “roll” to see if the Fine is Masterwork, and then another roll to see if the Masterwork is a Rare, and another roll to see if the Rare is an Exotic, a +100% Magic Find is going to double each of those “rolls” and not simply double your chance of getting something better. In other words, if there are 4 rolls that you need to succeed on to get an exotic, you are not going to have just twice the chance of getting an exotic with a +100% Magic Find but 16 times the chance. Can you do events and dungeons 16 times faster in your ’Zerker gear than I can with my Magic Find gear?

So it all boils down to your fear of being taken advantage of?

Personally, I want everyone wearing Magic Find gear because I want them to get the best loot possible when they play.

The only valid reason not to wear Magic Find gear is that you are too awful of a player to win a battle with anything other than maximized stats, and I say that as someone who turns with my keyboard and often activates skills with mouse clicks. If a few hundred attribute points mean the difference between success and failure for you, then you need to learn to play your character more effectively.

Is that fair of me to say that you are a horrible player? Probably not. But then it’s also no fair for you to assume the only reason why I have Magic Find gear is that I want to take advantage of others. Here’s a free clue — I spend a lot of my time running solo so the only one that my Magic Find gear might hurt most of the time is… me. And when I do play in group activities, I’d be quite pleased if everyone else was wearing Magic Find gear, too, as some of my friends do when we go farming together.

Totally agree. Except I don’t necessarily “want” everyone to be wearing mf. I really don’t care what armor other people are wearing. And I wish other people wouldn’t care what armor I was wearing. But as you said, armor itself does not make or break you. And for those pugs where people wearing mf “leech” and “bring the group down” chances are if someone is sucking that much with mf armor, they wouldn’t be any better in zerker armor. And that’s the price you pay for going with pugs. I thought it was common knowledge that doing a pug has the chance to be a really kittenty group? And not that it’s really a big deal, but I do kinda feel the need to point out that sometimes the stats do help players (more than just killing faster)..I mean I run a condition based ranger, so all my main stats are set to condition damage. I kinda feel that running a condition build without condition stats in my armor/weapons/etc would be kinda useless…But I feel that most of these people complaining about mf just want the general “zerker warriors plz” kinda thing.

Which just makes me wonder…Should newer level 80s (or lower) who don’t have full exotics yet be allowed to run dungeons? Should people using mf food instead of power food be allowed to run dungeons? Using the logic of people complaining about how mf hurts the party, nobody except zerker warriors in full exotics/ascended should be able to run dungeons. This is such an elitist viewpoint and y’know why don’t you just join the other elitists and make your pug defintion say “zerker warriors plz ping armor” and worry about your own parties, instead of everybody else’s.

If anyone running mf wants to come farm or do dungeons with me while our mf armor is still useful, send me a whisper. (name Sarahsaur)

notebene.3190:

What I’d ‘really’ like is proper way for me to change the ‘look’ of whatever armor I end up wearing ‘on the fly’, and I’m sad to not see anything about that in the long blog post.

They’re called Transmutation Crystals.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmutation_Crystal

Genavelle.9516:

—Snip—

I agree to some extent, however I think it’s inconsiderate of someone to join a group for Arah Explorable and they show up with a set of rare magic find gear, magic find sigils, and magic find food – rather than at least trying to be helpful.

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

Idk about evening out wealth distribution..I mean overall the richest players are still gonna be those who buy a ton of gems and convert them to gold, those that actively and successfully play the market, and those that farm a lot. I’m gonna guess that a lot of the people who don’t like the mf armor don’t spend as much time farming as people with whole mf sets. Or they’re the people who just don’t believe mf helps, in which case now they’ll be in the same boat as farmers who won’t have mf anymore.

So basically we’ll end up with the same sort of..heirarchy of wealth. Because I don’t see this getting people to spent less/more on gems for converting, deciding to play the market, or wanting to start farming a lot more than previously. I’m kind of worried about how it might affect prices of things on the tp though, and the ability of people who DO farm for money to keep getting money..

I’d love to hear their reasoning, too. Because so far all I can see is that it’s because of people whining about mf in dungeons or something. Which as I keep saying is a completely bs excuse. You run pugs knowing there’s a risk of them sucking. This is an elitist attitude, where do we draw the line? First mf, then mf food, then nobody without full exotics, only certain classes, etc. Does Anet want this to be a game full of everyone running the same class, build, etc? Just because one group of players is too lazy to either make their own mf sets OR is assuming everyone with mf is using it (and sucking) in dungeons, and they somehow are being forced to continue pugging with such people…Just because these people whine, why does the game get changed? If Anet was a parent trying to raise 5 kids, they would be the worst parents ever. Whiniest kid gets everything while other kids get screwed over? Seriously look at things for yourself and do what is actually best for the game.

And if for some reason, MF is actually bad for the game, you should have fixed it a year ago. Before you put out all this mf armor, gear, runes, food, etc for us to use. And encouraged us to use.

Mkalafut.1273:

Genavelle.9516:

—Snip—

I agree to some extent, however I think it’s inconsiderate of someone to join a group for Arah Explorable and they show up with a set of rare magic find gear, magic find sigils, and magic find food – rather than at least trying to be helpful.

But that’s not everyone..and that’s not everyone with mf armor. Some people are ALWAYS going to be inconsiderate regardless of the circumstances..So why are we taking away something from everyone? This is the kind of logic in a kindergarten classroom, one kid colors on the walls so nobody’s allowed to have crayons?

Mkalafut.1273:

notebene.3190:

What I’d ‘really’ like is proper way for me to change the ‘look’ of whatever armor I end up wearing ‘on the fly’, and I’m sad to not see anything about that in the long blog post.

They’re called Transmutation Crystals.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmutation_Crystal

I think they’re saying that they like having multiple outfits. I also have multiple armors just for different looks. Transmutation stones don’t fix the problem, because if you have 2 or 3 coats you like and want to be able to switch them out, you don’t want to erase one with another one. One of the small pros of an mf set for people like us is that it gives you a valid reason to have multiple armor sets..and a time and place to switch it out. Like with an mf and a main set, I have two looks. And I wear my main set for dungeons and my mf set for farming. So I have a time and place to switch it up. But without mf, then suddenly an extra set is just..an extra set. Not to mention now you WOULD have to transmute it to get any decent stat combo. Plus I think they’re trying to say with upcoming ascended gear, and the gear treadmill, now we’d have to make ascendeds for each of our current sets so we can have the same looks, but best stats. Plus a possible NEW set for any cool new looks ascendeds offer.

It’s mainly a cosmetic type issue, but rendering an entire set of armor someone has useless has all sorts of consequences. And regardless of whether they’re about utility or vanity, everyone has every right to own what armor they want and not have it tampered with months after acquiring it.

Mkalafut.1273:

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

They say very clearly in the blog post why they wanted to remove it. It’s not what GW2 is about. It’s an unnecessary trade-off. You’re still going to have magic find but it’ll just be account-wide and you won’t need to give up stats on your gear for it. How is that a problem?

It’s not quite that simple though. There are experienced players who want to make the game slightly harder. In exchange they naturally want more loot than those playing the easy mode. Magic Find was fairly useful for this.
The real reason for the change is that anet just wants to nerf Magic Find, probably to sell more Item Mall crap.

Genavelle.9516:

Mkalafut.1273:

Genavelle.9516:

—Snip—

I agree to some extent, however I think it’s inconsiderate of someone to join a group for Arah Explorable and they show up with a set of rare magic find gear, magic find sigils, and magic find food – rather than at least trying to be helpful.

But that’s not everyone..and that’s not everyone with mf armor. Some people are ALWAYS going to be inconsiderate regardless of the circumstances..So why are we taking away something from everyone? This is the kind of logic in a kindergarten classroom, one kid colors on the walls so nobody’s allowed to have crayons?

What? Did we read the same blog? How is anything being taken away from you? You’re getting free magic find as an account bonus, how is that better than sacrificing stats on gear?

Some people will complain about anything facepalm…

Master of Timespace.2548:

Mkalafut.1273:

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

They say very clearly in the blog post why they wanted to remove it. It’s not what GW2 is about. It’s an unnecessary trade-off. You’re still going to have magic find but it’ll just be account-wide and you won’t need to give up stats on your gear for it. How is that a problem?

It’s not quite that simple though. There are experienced players who want to make the game slightly harder. In exchange they naturally want more loot than those playing the easy mode. Magic Find was fairly useful for this.

So run with less armor or run with blues. Having a magic find stat doesn’t make the game harder lol You’ll still have the same magic find % just on your entire account rather than on that specific armor set…

Mkalafut.1273:

Genavelle.9516:

Mkalafut.1273:

Genavelle.9516:

—Snip—

I agree to some extent, however I think it’s inconsiderate of someone to join a group for Arah Explorable and they show up with a set of rare magic find gear, magic find sigils, and magic find food – rather than at least trying to be helpful.

But that’s not everyone..and that’s not everyone with mf armor. Some people are ALWAYS going to be inconsiderate regardless of the circumstances..So why are we taking away something from everyone? This is the kind of logic in a kindergarten classroom, one kid colors on the walls so nobody’s allowed to have crayons?

What? Did we read the same blog? How is anything being taken away from you? You’re getting free magic find as an account bonus, how is that better than sacrificing stats on gear?

Some people will complain about anything facepalm…

Who said the account-wide mf was free? I thought it was from the achievement rewards (A whopping 3% so far!) and these new consumables. These consumables which, by the way could either be like the current consumable foods and boosters and give a decent amount, but not stackable and only last for a short time…Or possibly permanent additions to your account-wide mf, but most likely only small amounts (1-5% per consumable?) Either way it’s VERY unlikely that people with mf sets will get back to their current amount of mf in the new system. And losing 100+% mf is losing something. We still don’t even know what kind of compensation Anet is planning to give..and if you spent laurels, pristine relics, guild commendations, on items that have mf as the main stat? You’re losing your laurels, relics, commendations, etc.

XGhoul.7426:

Glad they got rid of magic find (see posts that were made a long time ago) since it basically meant your party was carrying you on dungeon runs because they weren’t being done effectively by having 1-2 ppl running full MF while the rest up the group picks up the slack running normal gear.

Why should an entire game mechanic be taken away from players just to suit the dungeon-speedrunning minority? Ask people to ping their gear before you start if it bothers you that much that someone might have +3% magic find instead of +12 vitality.

Mkalafut.1273:

What? Did we read the same blog? How is anything being taken away from you? You’re getting free magic find as an account bonus, how is that better than sacrificing stats on gear?

Some people will complain about anything facepalm…

The magic find runes that they paid 2-3g each for, the magic find Ascended trinkets they paid 50 laurels each for, etc. are all being taken away from them.

Mkalafut.1273:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Mkalafut.1273:

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

They say very clearly in the blog post why they wanted to remove it. It’s not what GW2 is about. It’s an unnecessary trade-off. You’re still going to have magic find but it’ll just be account-wide and you won’t need to give up stats on your gear for it. How is that a problem?

It’s not quite that simple though. There are experienced players who want to make the game slightly harder. In exchange they naturally want more loot than those playing the easy mode. Magic Find was fairly useful for this.

So run with less armor or run with blues. Having a magic find stat doesn’t make the game harder lol You’ll still have the same magic find % just on your entire account rather than on that specific armor set…

But then I get no more loot and so it’s boring. I want the content to be harder, but also more rewarding to make it up. It was interesting trying to push as much magic find as possible, and still come up top and be helpful in dungeons. In dungeons I ran with around 100% magic find, 3.1k power, 100% crit damage. After the change it will be 3.4k power, 120% crit damage. Meh.

Anyway, now that they make it account bound, it just feels like some passive bonus that you barely notice.
Gw1 had “hard mode” which gave more loot, experience, titles and what not, but was a lot more difficult than the standard mode.

Mkalafut.1273:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Mkalafut.1273:

supermanboy.4592:

I’d like to hear more about Anet’s reasoning to removing MF from the game. I’ve played quite a few games with a similar stat, and like it. Yes, it is a trade-off to sacrifice other attributes in place of getting better loot, but it makes the game more challenging. I may be more squishy and do less damage, but I get better loot and it requires more skill on my part. I am also not sure how this will affect the economy long term. I suspect it will help to even out the wealth distribution slightly, but I would be surprised if this is anything more than minor.

They say very clearly in the blog post why they wanted to remove it. It’s not what GW2 is about. It’s an unnecessary trade-off. You’re still going to have magic find but it’ll just be account-wide and you won’t need to give up stats on your gear for it. How is that a problem?

It’s not quite that simple though. There are experienced players who want to make the game slightly harder. In exchange they naturally want more loot than those playing the easy mode. Magic Find was fairly useful for this.

So run with less armor or run with blues. Having a magic find stat doesn’t make the game harder lol You’ll still have the same magic find % just on your entire account rather than on that specific armor set…

“You’ll still have the same magic find % just on your entire account”

Um did I miss something? Nowhere did I read that Anet was planning to move your mf from your gear over to your account bonus. If that was the case, I would feel a lot better.

The entire section of the blog regarding MF afaik. From what I see, it says you’ll be getting MF bonuses through the achievement systems, and new consumables, but nowhere does it say how much that will be. So it’s unknown if the MF you’ll get from this new system will equal the amount MF users currently get from their equips.

Account Magic Find

We want to remove the choice players are currently being forced to make on their gear: “Do I go with better stats, or better loot?” This isn’t in the spirit of cooperation that Guild Wars 2 is all about. As such, we’ll be removing magic find entirely as an item stat and turning it into account stat that improved the odds of rare drops for all your characters.

You can improve your account magic find through the account achievement reward system and from consumable items found in game. As your magic find increases, it will require more consumables to keep raising it higher. In the near future, we’ll detail the system we’ll use to replace the existing magic find items. Our goal will be to have as little disruption as possible to those who currently own items with a magic find stat on them.
Salvaging Fine and Masterwork Items

Otherwise known as blues and greens, we want to give more reason to care about these item types when they drop. When the account magic find system is implemented, there will be a chance you can acquire account magic find consumables from salvaging both fine and masterwork items.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Berserker gear is the real cancer to the game and removing it will be the single greatest thing ArenaNet will ever do.

How is berserker gear bad for this game? Over half the bosses in this game you can sit back and auto attack while dodging every now and then.

This is true, Lambent, but they said you’d be able to increase it frequently for increased costs to increase it. They looked at the long term and found a way to over time increase it. This is better than sacrificing stats on gear for more magic find. Not to mention the bonuses will be account-wide.

Account-wide, increasable magic find on all characters > having a magic find set on a single character.

The entire thing sounds like puke. Salvaging fine/masterwork to keep account MF artificially high with consumables?

That is one of the worst and most awful thing I ever heard so far out of all patches. I already spent 24 commendations and 80 laurels to get a full MF set, along with freshly crafted celestial gear, and this took months of effort to get where I am now. I have been trying every day with this gear and probably 1000 + mobs with a near 200-250% mf with 0 exotic drops so far. This account MF is making me bang my head, because Anet’s going to probably let users either hit a very low MF threshold, or users have to salvage a TON of stuff to keep it at 200-250 % mf, which could have gone into vendoring to get money, however poor the money is.

So either way, I can’t get exotic drops, or I have to spend another ton of effort into getting high MF with no exotics in sight. I am sick.

PS: I read the post as consumables = non-permanent, just like eating a food that gives 30% mf for 30 minutes.

I’m someone who has invested so much to get full magic find gear and with buffs/food/gear i have 300% magic find. I choose magic find because I only do wvw and magic find build really makes sense. I find it HARD TO BELIEVE that any system they come out with will satisfy me when I’m accustom to a certain amount of magic find. Lets face it, the magic find will be no where near the magic find cap someone can get which was 327% before achievement buffs. It’s just another example how the vocal minority gets what they want and the quiet majority will have to adapt to this.