Guild Wars 2

Just wanted to say that to start with I also had trouble with the raptor. It seems much better on the asura than on a human sized character. The asura model seems to sit lower into the mount.

The main issue to me was when turning. There is a delay and my brain interpreted that as the mount being heavy when changing directions. This meant that when it did finally turn it seemed to be turning really quickly as if the mount was really light instead and only needed the smallest touch to turn. The disconnect between the impression of turning something quite heavy to it suddenly becoming really light and moving quickly made me feel a bit dizzy and sick.

I don’t normally become sick in games – except when watching someone else move in a FPS sometimes – and I did eventually get somewhat used to the feel of the turning raptor. As I said – much better with a very short asura than with a human.

Fae

I’ve been thinking about this problem and I wanted to add this:

I used to have nausea and headaches playing 1st person games (First person shooters, simulators, racing games an the like) a lot. This is also the reason I mostly play 3rdperson games nowadays (generally tactics, RTS, and RPG’s)…. Having This game in 1st person w or w/o action cam, instantly recreates the problem… Action Cam further aggravates the 1st person view, due to the unnaturally fast turns and fast and twitchy movements.

Spectre and BurningHeavy, no offense meant, but maybe you should read the whole thread before to post. It has been identified and confirmed that there is a trouble for many players due to some of the jerky movement of the raptor mount.

@Spectre: Nice for you that you do not have motion sickness, I would love to be like you, but how shall that help now? The thread is about helping those having the trouble. You make no proposal?

@BurningHeavy: Scroll up and you will see that zooming out as far as it goes has already been proposed and discussed. To some extent, it helps (thankfully), but it does not completely fix it. You will see also that many other things have been proposed/tested. Let’s see if one – or more – will help.

Dreamy Lu.3865:

Spectre and BurningHeavy, no offense meant, but maybe you should read the whole thread before to post. It has been identified and confirmed that there is a trouble for many players due to some of the jerky movement of the raptor mount.

@Spectre: Nice for you that you do not have motion sickness, I would love to be like you, but how shall that help now? The thread is about helping those having the trouble. You make no proposal?

@BurningHeavy: Scroll up and you will see that zooming out as far as it goes has already been proposed and discussed. To some extent, it helps (thankfully), but it does not completely fix it. You will see also that many other things have been proposed/tested. Let’s see if one – or more – will help.

Unfortunately I think you are a tiny minority. The overwhelming majority is LOVING how the mounts feel, and I’m in that camp. Maybe, with time, you’ll get used to it.

Sorry but what does it have to do with loving or not loving? I love to mount. A lot. I am excited at the new upcoming pack and enjoy a lot mounting. Where did you read different?
That I have a problem of motion sickness at certain of the raptor movements has no impact on that.

I know I’m one of the lucky ones that didn’t suffer any motion sickness from the mount. I don’t know if it’s partly that it moved as I would expect a mount to move and as I did a lot of horse riding in my younger days, the raptor seemed to move in a similar way. On a horse if you go from a gallop to a stop they will slide, when you turn when moving forward you do turn a circle, Strafing while stationary turns a pirouette and strafing while moving forward does quite a good leg yield.

My big concern is that if they do tweak things to solve the motion sickness that some are suffering, the solution might prove problematic to the rest of us, and cause us to feel sick instead. Any changes I feel need to be on sliders so that they can be adjusted to suit a specific player.

Oenanthe.6549:

My big concern is that if they do tweak things to solve the motion sickness that some are suffering, the solution might prove problematic to the rest of us, and cause us to feel sick instead. Any changes I feel need to be on sliders so that they can be adjusted to suit a specific player.

Yes, you are right, it is a risk. I trust Anet will avoid going for a solution that makes them swap from one trouble to another one.

On my side, I was further testing. To zoom out as far as possible did help me a lot. To watch a fix point ahead instead of my char when I stop, or/and when I jump off the raptor is helping also. The tail skill remains an issue though.

I wonder if with time going by, we can get use to the effects and cope better. I tend to believe that yes, at least I hope so.

This morning I noticed that the size of the raptor depends on the size of your character. I created a really small Asura and ran around with the small raptor for ~30 minutes. I still had symptoms of motion sickness, but I felt better than yesterday, when I used the large raptor. And I also think it would reduce my symptoms if it was possible to zoom the camera out a bit more while riding on the raptor. Do you think this might help you, too?

franzi.8513:

This morning I noticed that the size of the raptor depends on the size of your character. I created a really small Asura and ran around with the small raptor for ~30 minutes. I still had symptoms of motion sickness, but I felt better than yesterday, when I used the large raptor. And I also think it would reduce my symptoms if it was possible to zoom the camera out a bit more while riding on the raptor. Do you think this might help you, too?

As someone else mentioned earlier, I think this particular part of the problem is where your eyes focus – bigger raptor pulls your eyes down rather than at the center of the screen. This offset the movement of the rest of the world (ie screen) compared to what one is used to. Zooming out/scaling down the raptor by using Asura would help with that, yes.

Basicly, dat raptor behind is too big not to look at it.

BurningHeavy.7268:

Unfortunately I think you are a tiny minority. The overwhelming majority is LOVING how the mounts feel, and I’m in that camp. Maybe, with time, you’ll get used to it.

I love the mounts, too. Everything. Their movement is beautiful. But… it makes me sick riding on them. The beauty is meaningless, if you cannot enjoy the game with it. Regarding your last sentence: you don’t know what we are talking about. You are no part of this discussion.
By the way, it is no small problem and no tiny minority. This thread is the largest feedback thread for the PoF demo that exists, and it doesn’t contain a lengthy dialogue between only two people, it contains many reports of many different players instead. This is saying something completely different. It is substantial. If you lose 10% or 20% of a 5-year-old playerbase just because of motion sickness in the new expansion, this is a no-go. The game didn’t contain stuff that cause motion sickness until now except for the utmost sensitive people, it must stay this way. By all means.

To everyone saying mounts shouldnt be changed because the majority likes them, I WOULD agree with you IF:

-This was a brand new game or
-Mounts were optional content

Then they could just be avoided.

However mounts are necessary to play the game now, and people who have invested 5 years into this game with no previous issues shouldn’t be forced to quit because it now makes them physically ill, which is a massive issue in a video game.

Obviously the solution is options and sliders but if its a choice of changing them outright or nothing at all, they have to change them so people arent getting migraines and vomiting.

Also you cant train yourself to cure motion sickness. You might become slightly more resilient to it but it will always occur to the people who suffer from it due to the way their brains work.

I have no idea if players with motion sickness due to the mounts are a minority or a majority. I get m.s. from other games but not GW2, so believe me, I DO sympathize.

It helps me to not look at the mount itself while I’m traversing the environment. I zoom out as much as possible, and look ahead of the mount, at where I’m going.

Wishing the best for all players!

I felt fine when riding the mount. I haven’t had much time riding it so I’m going to hop in and play around with the mounting and update if things change. I play in action camera mode as well.

I usually don’t get motion sick in games, but do get motion sick in the back seat of cars. I only have gotten motion sick in one game via movement (and not jumping off of stuff which, obviously, will make my stomach flop) and that was one where you hovered on wings up and down. Seriously made me ill.

I tried out the raptor and I got the same kind of queasy feeling. I think its because its so slow to turn and takes a bit to get going, rocking from side to side and its not smooth like the actual character running. That delay and feeling of so much “weight” is what is making me ill, I believe. Just putting my two cents in.

I’ve played for perhaps an hour on the new map and decided to log before could feel extremely sick. I suffer from mild to severe motion sickness so I steer away from FPS games and others that are too bouncy or camera shakes or move too fast or too much, like per example, The Witcher 2.

- What triggered the motion sickness or made me feel worse:

• Mount and dismount animations
• Mount’s somewhat bouncy movements
• The way the mount change directions (lack of strafe option)
• The running back and forth to save villagers and extinguish the fire. The villagers are way too close to each other so it requires constant camera directions change movements
• New maps, as in Living Story 3 and Crystal Oasis so far, are way too bright compared to old core Tyria maps. That extra brightness makes my eyes hurt, sometimes light headache and can also cause dizziness
• Some skills animations turned to more opaque color which also brighten up and made AoE’s more colorful

- Proposed suggestions:

• Add strafe option to the mounts
• Add a secondary camera settings for the mounts such as:
  – Rotation Speed
  – Zoom Sensitive
  – Field of View
• Allow to decrease the camera rotation even further
• Allow to increase the field of view zoom out even further
• Add a new slider to set up Brightness (reducing the monitor to 0 brightness hasn’t been enough on the new maps)

• Don’t lock key story progression behind mounts masteries. Give an option to run the content using the minimum possible of mounts

Medical information background (in case it helps):

I suffer from Chronic Rhinitis which attacks my ears as well and had a severe case of Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV) a few years ago which lasted way too long because the docs weren’t really sure on the diagnosis back at the time. As consequence, now the BPPV can be triggered easily, be from my own fast head movements or of others around me as well as images shaking and constantly rapidly moving scenarios at the background.

I take the recommended medications for its corrected period and duration over the period of a month when I notice my ears are acting “funny” before the real dizziness hits however, that helps to not let it get to the severe stage yet doesn’t exactly get rid of the dizziness, only soothes it.

Even under the medication during my period testing the PoF demo and yet it didn’t stopped me from feeling mild dizziness during the game test.

I’ve acquired a bit of vertigo as I have gotten older since I was about 55-60. I played WOW for 8 years with mounts and flying. Rarely did I have issues with my vertigo unless it flew right over a cliff downwards. Other than that, it wasn’t an issue. In other SWTOR, I had very little issues with flight. Gliding in GW2 has been no more of an issue than flying in WOW or SWTOR. However, the mounts is problematic. I’ve tinkered with the settings as some suggested here and have seen little relief. My biggest issue is the ‘jerkiness’ of the movement and quick rotation even though I have put my graphics rotation on low. I’m not sure this is going to be an expansion that I will be able to enjoy due to this mount mechanic. Hopefully, Anet will take this back to the drawing board and come up with some solutions.

I’d like to ask how many people have had similar issues with the Bobblehead mode, if they have. Sounds like it might be similar; not motion sickness, but something else that’s kind of odd.

I know the bobblehead april fool’s patch made the game literally unplayable for me – I don’t really get motion sickness and have some some acrobatics in real life to be quite familiar with quick rotations without much issue – but with the bobbleheads I was dry heaving within around two minutes of playing.

I haven’t played any of the PoF content as I don’t have much desire to play the expansion, but this is a huge deal that should be narrowed down for a fix.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d like to ask how many people have had similar issues with the Bobblehead mode, if they have. Sounds like it might be similar; not motion sickness, but something else that’s kind of odd.

I know the bobblehead april fool’s patch made the game literally unplayable for me – I don’t really get motion sickness and have some some acrobatics in real life to be quite familiar with quick rotations without much issue – but with the bobbleheads I was dry heaving within around two minutes of playing.

I haven’t played any of the PoF content as I don’t have much desire to play the expansion, but this is a huge deal that should be narrowed down for a fix.

I had the same issue, so thats one person.

azyume.6321:

Benign Paroxysmal Positional Vertigo (BPPV) a few years ago which lasted way too long because the docs weren’t really sure on the diagnosis back at the time. As consequence, now the BPPV can be triggered easily, be from my own fast head movements or of others around me as well as images shaking and constantly rapidly moving scenarios at the background.

I take the recommended medications for its corrected period and duration over the period of a month when I notice my ears are acting “funny” before the real dizziness hits however, that helps to not let it get to the severe stage yet doesn’t exactly get rid of the dizziness, only soothes it.

Even under the medication during my period testing the PoF demo and yet it didn’t stopped me from feeling mild dizziness during the game test.

I know someone who had BPPV last year and I just wanted to ask – in addition to the medication, are you aware of the head exercises you can do? I don’t know if they’ll help but it’s worth trying. My friend kept them up for several weeks and in the end the BPPV settled down to a barely noticeable level.

Nesogra.4087:

One other note is that my first time using the mount the motion sickness was far worse than it is now but I still feel it some when playing certain characters.

I would be interesting in hearing which characters are worse/better. It may be that the animations are slightly different for the races, and if so, that might lead to a clue in some minor changes that could be made.

As to the strafing comments: while strafing for a long distance would not be natural for a four legged animal, they can side step. Using the strafe keys while moving forward gives the player a much more gentle turn. It evens out those tiny micro-corrections so they aren’t as jarring. Right now, the raptor jerks with every little turn of the head.

Think of it as a new driver that over-steers their car, and an experienced driver that can anticipate and make tiny gentle corrections.

Another personal comment for any dev’s that may be listening in: When the raptor stops, it angles it’s body to the camera. It’s not straight. So, again, it makes it necessary to make tiny micro-corrections if you want to line it up on a ledge, etc. Without a “softer” movement like strafe/side-step, it’s a lot of twerking going on. I know the current stop animation is a side-slide, but perhaps the animal could then straighten out with the camera.

Thank you to all of you that are making the effort to give more detailed information regarding your experience, and to those that are understanding and not making negative responses.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d like to ask how many people have had similar issues with the Bobblehead mode, if they have. Sounds like it might be similar; not motion sickness, but something else that’s kind of odd…

Now days they are calling it VR sickness or simulation sickness (not simulator sickness which is different again). The long and short of it really though is that it has the same causes as motion sickness and is seen as a sub set thereof. Basically multiple senses are feeding the brain conflicting information and the brain can’t handle it. It can often feel more nebulous than motion sickness because people will get sick from one game but not another similar game, making the cause hard to pin down, however this negates the fact that not everyone suffers motion sickness in the same way – put me on a car, train or bus for more than an hour and I’ll be sick for the rest of the day. But I have never had an issue on aeroplanes or on boats. Plenty of people get seasick but have no issue with other modes of travel, etc.

For the record Bobblehead mode made me very ill very quickly. Didn’t touch the game till friends could confirm it was gone. I also won’t touch action cam in GW2, yet play FPS like Overwatch and TF2 without issues. Did that silly shooting challenge in VB twice trying to get the MP associated with it then gave up because I was going to puke if I tried again.

I’m not suffering issues with the Raptor though I am somewhat worried that the other mounts may be an issue.

EDIT: Right at the start of the game I couldn’t play asura in long sessions because the camera was too close to the ground. While GW2 was better than other games where I avoid small characters completely because they’d make me ill the default camera for asura was still not great. Once the additional camera controls were added I moved the far and near camera to near max and had no issues playing long sessions on an asura character. My FoV is also set about 3/4 of max, and I play with zoom about half of max.

Contrary to those who posted in other related threads, motion sickness is not something you can “just get used tom,” and there are FAR more folks who have issues with motion sickness in game than you might think.

Some background: I played GW1 since it was launched, was the head of a guild that led its alliance, and completed virtually every activity which GW1 had to offer – many times over. I began playing GW2 in beta, am the leader of a decent sized guild, and although I focus mostly on PvE, I have participated in every type of content which GW2 has to offer with every profession. I purchased each expansion as soon as they were available, and have spent ungodly sums of money buying items in the gem store. My choice of playing GW was very much influenced by the fact that it was one of the only games I actually wanted to play which I could tolerate with my susceptibility to motion sickness. While GW2 had a bit more movement in it, and some small parts have caused some motion sickness (like running up the spinning spiral staircase in Dragon Stand), I’ve been able to play all of the content just fine – until now.

Having invested VERY heavily in the game, and being a single game player (fully dedicated to GW1, and now GW2) I was eager to give mounts a try. However, to put it bluntly, I can’t be on a mount for more than 10 seconds without feeling motion sickness coming on. I tried everything I could think of to minimize the motion sickness, including different camera positions, zooming as far out as possible and adjusting in-game, monitor and ambient light settings, but none of it had any meaningful impact on the motion sickness. While I found that I was able to complete some of the beta content without a mount, mounts have clearly been designed to be an integral part of PoF. I find this very problematic, because if something isn’t done to tweak the way mounts are displayed, I am going to be unable to play any parts of the game which require mounts.

I suspect that much of the motion sickness issues are fixable without deleting mounts from the content. After all, the gliding could have very easily posed problems with motion sickness, and yet Anet found a way to make it function without significant motion sickness issues. If there were settings to be adjustable in the way LolinaOtone.4196 mentioned above, it would very likely go a long way to resolving the problem.

And, contrary to the single activity at a theme park hypothetical, this is more like an entirely new “land” at a theme park which folks bought a lifetime pass to in advance, only to find out after the fact that they can’t even enter because it is exclusively for persons to use who are immune from motion sickness. No es bueno.

I am someone who doesn’t get sick from the mounts, but someone in my family (who has already posted on this thread) does. We play GW2 as a family, so if one person gets violently ill from the mounts, that lowers the chance that I’ll be buying the 4 – 5 copies of PoF for myself and my family.

I do think the mount animations are pretty cool (I especially like the skid stop on the raptor). So, if there is a way to toggle off the problematic things so that people who get sick can play too, I’m all over that idea.

However, if the mounts were changed, it would not affect my game very much – it would certainly be far from a dealbreaker on PoF, and after a week or so, I’d likely forget it was even an issue. For people who do get sick, however, changing the mounts is a huge issue and may mean the difference between playing the game or not.

Even if it didn’t affect a family member, I would not have a problem with losing a trivial cosmetic thing so that hundreds of others could enjoy the game as well.

Vax Tezhme.7128:

Even if it didn’t affect a family member, I would not have a problem with losing a trivial cosmetic thing so that hundreds of others could enjoy the game as well.

Thank you. It’s refreshing to see someone who thinks about others instead of the selfish attitudes that seem to be so prevalent on the boards for this issue.

First of all I have really enjoyed the demo a lot! The map is awesome, there is so much stuff there and I’m very excited to get to see the whole thing and I’m looking forward to PoF

Yesterday I felt fine when I played and I was feeling very lucky to not get sick from the motion, but then today I played for a very short time and on a dime, oops, waves of nausea followed by a strong migraine I don’t know what if anything was different today from yesterday, I might just be more sensitive at different times for who knows what esoteric reasons. I guess I’m in the “RNG vomit” category… Still, I’m a little afraid of the new area now and I thought I should report that I’m another person who got sick from this

I do think we should all remember though that there are going to be a variety of mounts and they may all move differently so I’m very optimistic that you guys will be able to put in some options to improve this problem and that at any rate maybe some of the other mounts won’t cause this problem at all

I am one who gets VRMS pretty dramatically when in first person views or really tight in fovs. It’s so bad for me, that even watching YouTube videos of games being played can set me off. Not sure what initially caused it, just noticed one day when playing Minecraft that I felt nauseated, light headed and like I couldn’t see properly and it has been a pretty severe problem ever since.

The raptors also did this for me. It seemed to me to be the “wobble” from side to side when riding forward and the “sliding stop”. (I am not sure of the last possible factor – taking that from coincidences with other games/videos that cause the same problem.) I love the creativity of the animations, but for example, in Black Desert Online I can play for HOURS on end, riding my horse, training, etc. with no problems or ill effects on the same screen/location/position/etc. as where I play GW2 but just about 10 minutes of riding the raptor set my VRMS off.

I don’t get motion sickness in real life from being in a car or anything, and sometimes viewing on a larger screen from further back (such as watching YouTube on the television from the couch instead of on my computer) will help me last a little but noticeable bit longer, so I feel like it is likely the overwhelming percentage of the screen that is taken up with the “weeble effect” for lack of a better term (you know – weebles wobble, but they don’t fall down).

I didn’t play very long in the demo because I didn’t want to ruin the storyline coming up, but in the hopes that these points or ideas might help someone solve the problem (either developers or players) I would appreciate it whole heartedly.

Love the new map. Looking forward to the expansion.

I have no problem with the way the mount moves. I think the feeling that it actually has mass and a turning radius is pretty cool. But I do have a suggestion about the mount/dismount animation.

I usually pull my camera pretty far back, so I’m watching my character from a distance. I feel like my camera follows my character, but is not ‘connected’ to it. The mount/dismount animation makes the camera seem connected because the camera does two things: 1-it seems to bounce as my character lifts off the ground, and 2- it pulls back a little so the raptor fits in the view I suppose. When viewed from the side, it’s pretty clear. When viewed from the rear – particularly while moving – it’s most confusing.

I would like the camera to show me what’s happening, but not participate in it. I could zoom out or zoom in a little if I want to once the mount/dismount is completed. Alternatively, the camera could move more slowly to it’s new position so the motion is not so fast and abrupt. I would like to see the mount/dismount from a non-moving camera position, and then see the camera adjust to the new character configuration.

I suppose different players use the camera in different ways and may react to it in different ways. What ever changes or adjustments are incorporated, I really hope they are user controllable.

Thanks for the Demo.

I enjoyed the Raptor, and am looking forward to the other Mounts.

If changes are to be considered, I hope they are options, and not just changes. I’d hate to lose the great feeling of riding Mounts.

Thanks for all your hard work, Devs. =)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I enjoyed the Raptor, and am looking forward to the other Mounts.

If changes are to be considered, I hope they are options, and not just changes. I’d hate to lose the great feeling of riding Mounts.

Thanks for all your hard work, Devs. =)

I’m with Inculpatus here, loved the Raptor, even with the movement, made it seem more realistic and once I got used to it(only took about 10 or 15 minutes) I no longer had any problems with controlling it.

Adding OPTIONS for those that have issues is a good idea, making changes to solve those problems does nothing but appease those with problems while irritating those that like the status quo, and hopefully you’ve learned from past experiences when making changes as opposed to offering more options(obviously more options is always the better choice but I also understand that sometimes you’re unable to offer options due to potential limitations of the engine or other underlying factors).

Zaklex.6308:

Adding OPTIONS for those that have issues is a good idea, making changes to solve those problems does nothing but appease those with problems while irritating those that like the status quo

This has nothing to do with appeasing anyone, it has to do with enabling players to play the game they have spent good money on, just like everyone else. “Appeasing” was adding the mounts in to the game in the first place, against the wishes of the many MANY players who did not want them. At this point, with the attitude I have been seeing by players not effected by this, I do not care what they have to do. If someone has to take a hit in the graphic or play style of the mounts so that ALL players are able to play, so be it!

Zaklex.6308:

Adding OPTIONS for those that have issues is a good idea, making changes to solve those problems does nothing but appease those with problems while irritating those that like the status quo, and hopefully you’ve learned from past experiences when making changes as opposed to offering more options(obviously more options is always the better choice but I also understand that sometimes you’re unable to offer options due to potential limitations of the engine or other underlying factors).

Zaklex this isn’t about appeasing people who complain about an irritating problem. This is about a mechanic which is required to complete the story that is physically causing players to vomit. Your statement might have merit if mounts were not compulsory, however from the small amount of what we’ve seen of the preview not using mounts will lock you out of the story and exploration/map completion, and by extension any events/activities that require a mount to get to the location.

I want to keep the raptor as is too. I suffer from motion sickness in many games, the raptor is not causing me issues and there is a very real chance that changes to how it moves may cause me to suffer while fixing the issue for others. However leaving it as is is not acceptable for a compulsory mechanic. I don’t have to do the noble’s shooting gallery adventure in VB – the action cam makes me ill and I avoid it. There are plenty of other MP available from activities I can complete. Mounts are not in the same league as this, they are a necessity.

Lady Lozza.9670:

Zaklex.6308:

Adding OPTIONS for those that have issues is a good idea, making changes to solve those problems does nothing but appease those with problems while irritating those that like the status quo, and hopefully you’ve learned from past experiences when making changes as opposed to offering more options(obviously more options is always the better choice but I also understand that sometimes you’re unable to offer options due to potential limitations of the engine or other underlying factors).

Zaklex this isn’t about appeasing people who complain about an irritating problem. This is about a mechanic which is required to complete the story that is physically causing players to vomit. Your statement might have merit if mounts were not compulsory, however from the small amount of what we’ve seen of the preview not using mounts will lock you out of the story and exploration/map completion, and by extension any events/activities that require a mount to get to the location.

I want to keep the raptor as is too. I suffer from motion sickness in many games, the raptor is not causing me issues and there is a very real chance that changes to how it moves may cause me to suffer while fixing the issue for others. However leaving it as is is not acceptable for a compulsory mechanic. I don’t have to do the noble’s shooting gallery adventure in VB – the action cam makes me ill and I avoid it. There are plenty of other MP available from activities I can complete. Mounts are not in the same league as this, they are a necessity.

Thank you. What people who are experiencing this are looking for is not to change everyone else’s experience, but only to be allowed to play a game we have invested in (money, time, everything) instead of being ignored because a separate group doesn’t experience the same thing. I haven’t complained out loud about this before because the experiences I felt were very temporary (the spinning helix in the story mission that lead you to Faolin in HoT for example) or just my personal quirk (severe pet hate for jumping puzzles because I am afraid of heights and I get so invested and lost in games that I have real reactions to them – my toes curl, my stomach sinks, and I get hot flashes when I have to jump gaps) because to me that is just a sign of good game design that they can make pixels feel so real to me. However, those aren’t required and there are ways I can do them (especially now with gliders, etc. or with the fact that there are teleport to friends – given in game – if there is one particular spot that is just unbearable).

However, due to the compulsory requirement for mounts (and the fact that other mounts are needed for areas we haven’t seen yet (such as use of ley lines – I haven’t tried those yet, but I am nervous about them worried how the movement will be like) I am concerned both about the effects on longevity of play for myself and potentially others. Sure, I can spend most of my time on foot, but that is going to kitten me severely – I won’t be able to keep up with groups for meta events etc., I won’t be able to access important areas to the story, etc. and I won’t be able to enjoy the product I have already invested years into (I was in the closed betas of vanilla GW2).

I’m hoping they can do something like allow us to turn off the wobble, or some other option. Additionally, what’s strange to me is I was running with my husband, and his raptor’s action didn’t affect me (watching the sliding stop or him wobbling side to side as he ran on my screen) so that further makes me feel that my experience is due to a camera option, control, or effect.

For reference (I meant to mention in my earlier post but got distracted) I already have all the affecting options available turned off (no camera shake, blurring, etc.) and I am pulled back as far as the controls will let me. Under normal circumstances, that is relatively sufficient to allow me to play GW2 for 4-5 hour stretches and do everything I am interested in (PvE, WvW, sPvP) but did not help me on this demo.

azyume.6321:

/snip

- What triggered the motion sickness or made me feel worse:

• Mount and dismount animations
• Mount’s somewhat bouncy movements
• The way the mount change directions (lack of strafe option)
• The running back and forth to save villagers and extinguish the fire. The villagers are way too close to each other so it requires constant camera directions change movements
• New maps, as in Living Story 3 and Crystal Oasis so far, are way too bright compared to old core Tyria maps. That extra brightness makes my eyes hurt, sometimes light headache and can also cause dizziness
• Some skills animations turned to more opaque color which also brighten up and made AoE’s more colorful

/snip

Sorry for your situation. I do however need to comment (from perspective of someone who doesn’t have issues) on some of these because they don’t add up on how the rest of the game performs.
“Mount and dismount animations” – this is very basic animation and there are animations in game that are far heavier for eyes. Game is basically a clutterfest of shiny bouncy jerky light flashes. It’s really weird that a simple mount/dismount animation is somewhat more impacting.
- “Mount’s somewhat bouncy movements” – sure, mount is bouncy, but the screen stays perfectly still and mount other than going up-down stays on perfectly straight trajectory.
- “The way the mount change directions (lack of strafe option)” – hard to believe this has any relation to motion sickness, though it would be a good addition to the movement set (provided it’s done properly in line with current moves)
- “The running back and forth to save villagers and extinguish the fire. The villagers are way too close to each other so it requires constant camera directions change movements” – basically every other open world quest, since the start of game.
- " New maps, as in Living Story 3 and Crystal Oasis so far, are way too bright compared to old core Tyria maps. That extra brightness makes my eyes hurt, sometimes light headache and can also cause dizziness " – adjust your monitor, turn on light adaptation setting in options. Turn down some options that make everything glow. I think there are also overlays that change whole game colourings/brightness/contrast.
- “Some skills animations turned to more opaque color which also brighten up and made AoE’s more colorful” – that’s the problem of the game from start. Too much particles in general. One of my friends even turned down playing game because it looked like someone is throwing flashing confetti at screen when fighting.

Just an observation; I can’t really tell that much a difference between running and riding other than it is slightly faster when riding. The mount movement is something that is different from running because it gives the feeling of heaviness, but having mount have snappy movement like when running would be terrible and immersion-ruining (WoW has that snappy movement and it’s terrible).
If we look at the rest of the game, it’s not exactly motion-sickness-free zone. Even the regular running and movement has slight delay and realism compared to many other MMOs. Camera is far more jerky and wild when just running on foot because pointing character fast in any direction is possible, while mounted it’s not (if we exclude left mouse free look).

All in all, maybe some adjusting to the mount over some time period is required to deal with most of the issues. I understand that not all can be treated with ‘adjusting’ but many probably can be.

I get sick with the raptor (wrote about it), and regarding Bobblehead or other mounts:

• Bobblehead makes me sick very soon. Not able to use this even for a minute.
• gliding in GW2 never resulted in any motion sickness
• in Elder Scrolls Oblivion you were able to ride a horse. Not the slightest problem for me. As far as I remember, they appeared slower because of their size. They did have not so sophisticated animations, as well. Ok, this is a game as old as GW1. As far as I remember, they had immediate reaction to movement keys, including strafe, resulting in not natural animation. Turning the camera made the horse rotate on the spot, like a wooden horse. Not possible for a real horse, but no motion sickness, because the camera didn’t sway and didn’t felt sluggish. I prefer no motion sickness above natural moving animations.
• a constant source of irritation in GW2 aside from mounts is still the camera movement. If something makes the camera suddenly zoom in, this is causing dizziness for me. For example at Tequatl, the middle event – defend the mega laser. If you approach the mega laser, the camera suddenly zooms in. During the event, you are able to zoom out again, but it always zooms back in subject to your movement around the laser. This is not only a nuisance, it causes dizziness as well. Not migraine like the raptor, but uneasiness nonetheless.

Fox.3469:

I totally get that some people may have a problem and i do hope they add something for it, as long as the base mount animations aren’t changed for the majority.

As for strafing, that’s just not natural on a riding animal.

Moira Shalaar.5620:

For all those who say “not a problem for me” that is fantastic for you and I hope you appreciate that lack of problem, but those kinds of responses are unproductive and unhelpful here. Just because you do not experience problems does not logically mean that therefore others do not/should not.

I get that you have a problem, but also do get that changing the mounts may affect gameplay and gameplay is important to everyone overall. I hope they can add a camera option to makes your motion sickness better, and maybe some other options, but the look and feel of it imo has to stay the same, the delayed response imo is part of the core feature on how mounts operate in GW2 and cannot be changed. Give constructive feedback but to not expect the entire game to revolve around you. Your aggressive response to people who disagree with some stuff is not needed. Yes you have a problem and yes you can voice your concerns, but others can also voice their concerns about how possible solutions would affect them.

I don’t understand your comments about “I get that you have a problem, but also do get that changing the mounts may affect gameplay and gameplay is important to everyone overall … the delayed response imo is part of the core feature on how mounts operate in GW2 and cannot be changed” for 2 big reasons.

Number 1: Since this is the first time mounts have been introduced, there is no “core feature” yet. If there is going to be a change, then now is the time to do it, not after (for example) 5 mounts have this “feature” and then the next 5 don’t.

Number 2: Considering making adjustments to mounts in the way they are being suggested would bring them in closer to the way mounts work in other games (which I haven’t seen in any of the games I play a thread about mount induced VRMS) it wouldn’t be game breaking and if (for example) (the collective) “you” hadn’t seen the animations in the demo and they changed it in the design/QoL stage before “you” experienced it, “you” wouldn’t know the difference.

Additionally, I don’t feel that the person you were responding to was being aggressive, but rather defensive. There have been more than a few comments on here telling people who are experiencing this problem to “get used to it” or saying to ANet that they don’t have the problem so don’t change anything. Statements such as “others can also voice their concerns about how possible solutions would affect them” while valid in sentiment doesn’t truly follow because the only way it would “affect” them is if mounts were removed or the expansion was canned (maybe because not enough people bought it because it made them ill). Those animations do not make the game playable for you. However, they do potentially make it unplayable for others and that is a dangerous precedence to begin setting. If a whole group (which is surprisingly quite large and potentially even larger because people may be deciding just not to buy the expansion because it makes them ill – such as I decide not to buy FPS games because they make me ill) is negated then ANet has just dwindled down a shrinking player base (they are losing profit gains according to the NCSoft quarterly reports) even further, and as that slippery slope continues eventually the whole game will die and then you really will be affected by the animations (and other causes in the future) affecting your game play (though less noticeable on your part).

Also, I would like to point out to those people shouting for “no changes” or that we should get used to it, etc – if you reduce your player base further and further, how do you expect to do meta events etc? Already in HoT there are not enough people to complete the Auric Basin meta event and others and that’s the current newest maps where you would expect the player base to be. My husband and I started on the EU servers and played across a wide range of hours (both in and outside of peak times) and have since transferred to NA servers, and both are suffering from the same ailment. If you negate even more players further, you are dwindling your player base and potentially making it harder for your enjoyment of the game and completion. Just a thought that maybe you need to consider the big picture, not just whether a mount turns with strafing (which is highly possible and happens – check out dressage for example) or whether the mount bobs about, etc.

Hopefully, they will be able to give me the options to fix it for me unique to my situation, and not affect anyone else, but if they can’t due to engine limitations for example – how is making the game playable for a larger group of people really a bad thing for anyone here? ANet and NCSoft make more money, you have a wider base to play with, and we get to enjoy all the parts of the game we want to play. Seems a Win-Win-Win in my opinion.

martin.1653:

/snip

Sorry for your situation. I do however need to comment (from perspective of someone who doesn’t have issues) on some of these because they don’t add up on how the rest of the game performs.
“Mount and dismount animations” – this is very basic animation and there are animations in game that are far heavier for eyes. Game is basically a clutterfest of shiny bouncy jerky light flashes. It’s really weird that a simple mount/dismount animation is somewhat more impacting.
- “Mount’s somewhat bouncy movements” – sure, mount is bouncy, but the screen stays perfectly still and mount other than going up-down stays on perfectly straight trajectory.
- “The way the mount change directions (lack of strafe option)” – hard to believe this has any relation to motion sickness, though it would be a good addition to the movement set (provided it’s done properly in line with current moves)
- “The running back and forth to save villagers and extinguish the fire. The villagers are way too close to each other so it requires constant camera directions change movements” – basically every other open world quest, since the start of game.
…

Just an observation; I can’t really tell that much a difference between running and riding other than it is slightly faster when riding. The mount movement is something that is different from running because it gives the feeling of heaviness, but having mount have snappy movement like when running would be terrible and immersion-ruining (WoW has that snappy movement and it’s terrible).
If we look at the rest of the game, it’s not exactly motion-sickness-free zone. Even the regular running and movement has slight delay and realism compared to many other MMOs. Camera is far more jerky and wild when just running on foot because pointing character fast in any direction is possible, while mounted it’s not (if we exclude left mouse free look).

All in all, maybe some adjusting to the mount over some time period is required to deal with most of the issues. I understand that not all can be treated with ‘adjusting’ but many probably can be.

To address your points, I would like to make some further points to help in understanding this circumstance.

You say you struggle with the mount/dismount animation, bobbing, lack of strafe being a cause because other flashes in the game, etc. don’t seem to be a cause. Well, we have the means of preventing these other flashes etc. from causing a problem with removing camera shake, etc. but we don’t have that option at this time with the mount. The camera reacts to the actions of the mount differently than with the actions of the character, and that difference is enough to make some people experience this problem.

You say that you think we should just “adjust to the mount” and not ask for any support to make the game more playable. However, how would that feel if you were told you shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy a whole part of a game you want to be able to experience? I don’t know what aspects of the game you enjoy, but let’s say you love WvW, and they decided that WvW is played by a minority of the player base and it just wasn’t feasible to keep the servers open any longer. They cost too much money, and no one else really played that mode so they were taking out that feature as well as Edge of the Mists. You just need to “adjust” to it. How does that feel to a player who has played hours and hours on end in this mode of play? I realize that is a ridiculous circumstance, but the limitation of this mount issue and the way people are saying “just adjust to the mount” or “get used to it” or telling ANet not to make changes is just the same level of ridiculousness.

For example, the character running takes up less space on the screen than the mount, so the effect of the bobbing etc. is less pronounced. You can also pull back which reduces the effect further, but while you can pull back from the mount, the size keeps it a much larger percentage of the screen, therefore making the effect remain pronounced for some people. How is asking for a wider FOV (even when limited to being on a mount if required) considered wrong?

VRMS is not something that is entirely predictable, and different things can cause it for different people. For example – when I started playing Minecraft I could play for hours with no problem, but one day it was a problem and now I get severely ill within 5 minutes (whether mining a long straight tunnel or jumping/running/building/flying/etc.). I had no problem while on foot, but within 10 minutes raptor riding, I was feeling the beginning of the onset. In Black Desert Online I can ride my max level horse with Drift and sprint with no problems ever affecting me, and those two also have light effects and fast jerky movements, in Tera riding around on a wide range of mounts never a problem. Watching Mack (from Worth A Buy) play FPS games on YouTube/Twitch on my computer – make me hurl in 2 minutes if not sooner, on the television, I might last 10 minutes.

All of this while watching movies/tv shows with flashes, jerky camera/hand cam movements, etc. gives me no problem at all (television or computer screen). What is the difference between those and the similarity between them? Heck if I know – we are all trying to help nail down a real problem, so someone expressing when they feel the issue is only trying to help. Just because it doesn’t happen somewhere else or to someone else doesn’t mean it isn’t a valid problem where it is occurring.

Your reaction and comments, as well as others, seems to me to bring up:

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost,
for want of a shoe, the horse was lost,
for want of a horse, the knight was lost,
for want of a knight, the battle was lost,
for want of a battle, the kingdom was lost.
So a kingdom was lost—all for want of a nail.

All we want is a nail.

I’d like to add my voice to those asking: dear ANet, please, please don’t nerf the raptor animations for everyone.

It’s quite simply the most beautiful animation I’ve seen in a videogame. I must have spent at least half an hour just jumping up and down and chasing my own raptors tail in Amnoon. Whilst giggling.

I’m sure a solution can be worked out, maybe a cut-down animation could be placed behind a “reduced mount motion” check box? (Or the full animations placed behind a “full mount motion” check box? Us players are happy with lots of configuration options by now, right…?)

Sikil.9817:

I’d like to add my voice to those asking: dear ANet, please, please don’t nerf the raptor animations for everyone.

It’s quite simply the most beautiful animation I’ve seen in a videogame. I must have spent at least half an hour just jumping up and down and chasing my own raptors tail in Amnoon. Whilst giggling.

I’m sure a solution can be worked out, maybe a cut-down animation could be placed behind a “reduced mount motion” check box? (Or the full animations placed behind a “full mount motion” check box? Us players are happy with lots of configuration options by now, right…?)

Last night I was on Skype with my cousin,he saw and used the mount for the first time…we both had a nerdgasm on how amazing the mount animations are. If they change it,not only there will be a huge backlash but the work of the people who developed the mounts would be pointless. I can’t say I agree with the fact that it shouldn’t be added something to help the ones with the problem but in the end if it can’t be done without modifying the mount ,it should be left the way it is.The majority should not suffer for a minuscule minority.I know it sounds bad…but I think is the right thing.

At that step, posts repeat all the same, with no new information. Some have motion sickness, some not. Some want a change, some not. Some have understanding, some not. Some say it is a minority, some others say that it is more than just a minority: I don’t know, I have not seen concrete numbers.
I believe that as of now, only Anet can make a statement in one direction or the other (potential solutions or not changing anything)… I don’t know if they have a way to estimate the amount of players concerned by the trouble and taking decision not to buy the pack due to it.
Fact is that main feature of the new pack – mandatory for proper playing – is causing a trouble. From there, this is with Anet to decide how far it is detrimental to their business case, and accordingly how far it is worth going into changes (and in that case, what for changes), or not.

magicweaver.2695:

In Black Desert Online I can ride my max level horse with Drift and sprint with no problems ever affecting me, and those two also have light effects and fast jerky movements

I think you misunderstood my post, but I’d like to focus on this part I quoted; I checked the BDO horse gameplay on youtube and to me, that seems like it fits much better to the points I was making comment on. See, this is the reason why I made my previous comment in the first place. People are saying all kinds of stuff is triggering them, but majority of that stuff is already present in the game and as you said yourself, things that trigger you here don’t trigger you in BDO – which is really weird as BDO riding has much more pronounced sickness inducing mechanics based on what people wrote in this thread.
Hence why I said it might be they just need some time to adjust. Minority will never be able to adjust, it’s unfortunate truth, no matter how much riding would get changed.

I hope you do realise that changing mechanics of the riding at this point will cause uproar from the vast majority of people that enjoyed mounts in demo but didn’t make a comment on it.
Camera adjustments – sure, mechanics and animation adjustments – sure, if you wanna open the can of worms.

I found a dev comment that might be a factor here. It’s in http://www.gamereactor.eu/previews/576923/Guild+Wars+2+Path+of+Fire/ (which is linked in ANet’s News page in the Coverage Roundup article).

In the Mounts section, Roy Cronacher says “We created custom physics for every single mount so they all move differently, which matches their anatomy. We spent a lot of time on their animations to really add personality to every single mount. Added like a new camera system to help make the experience smoother. So it’s a lot of little things that really just add up to the whole.”

So the mount camera actually is different. Perhaps we could request a more detailed explanation of what changed, in order to help narrow down the cause-and-effect of the motion sickness some are experiencing?

Nury.3062:

If they change it,not only there will be a huge backlash but the work of the people who developed the mounts would be pointless. I can’t say I agree with the fact that it shouldn’t be added something to help the ones with the problem but in the end if it can’t be done without modifying the mount ,it should be left the way it is.The majority should not suffer for a minuscule minority.I know it sounds bad…but I think is the right thing.

The exact prevalence of motion sickness is unknown, but there had been studies around the world which have reported a rate of 20-30%. Migraine is the third most common disease in the world (about 12% of the population) and such motions can be a trigger for migraine, too. Even some people who never experienced motion sickness before seem to feel unwell while riding on the raptor.

So I suppose there are a lot of players who would be unable to use the mounts when Anet doesn’t find a solution of this problem. I love the realistic animations of the raptor, too. But in my opinion the movements of the raptor should be slightly modified if nothing else helps, because I don’t think it’s good when about 20% of the players get sick from it. This is not a miniscule minority. Of course I really hope they will find a different solution of this problem.

martin.1653:

Hence why I said it might be they just need some time to adjust. Minority will never be able to adjust, it’s unfortunate truth, no matter how much riding would get changed.

I hope you do realise that changing mechanics of the riding at this point will cause uproar from the vast majority of people that enjoyed mounts in demo but didn’t make a comment on it.
Camera adjustments – sure, mechanics and animation adjustments – sure, if you wanna open the can of worms.

martin, some types of motion sickness can be addressed by exposure. Some definitely cannot and may relate to medical issues. While one can say “it seems weird that this does cause X, but that does not”, that doesn’t affect their experiences. It is certainly possible that nothing can be done for everyone, but why not see what can be done?

And I think there is a misunderstanding of scale. While I like the animations and all, those animations are not integral to the experience of using mounts. The animations are cosmetic – cool, but not central to the functionality of mounts in the game. The fact that so many other mount systems in other MMOs seem not to cause as many issues would seem to support that fact.

If the animations/camera mechanics were changed, we would still be able to ride mounts, jump across chasms with the raptor, run races, etc. We (the non-motion sick) would loose very little. Those people who are affected, however, are impacted greatly by this. These people can’t use the raptor (and possibly other mounts) at all. A trivial ‘loss’ for us would mean a great improvement in PoF for them.

I get there are cost-benefit decisions to be made for Anet. The motion sick people are not the majority and all. But why assume that the people for whom the animations matter that much are the majority? Maybe the majority is people who don’t really care all that much about this one thing. So why is it that horrible that we give up a tiny thing so that this small group of people can enjoy the game as well?

Nury.3062:

Last night I was on Skype with my cousin,he saw and used the mount for the first time…we both had a nerdgasm on how amazing the mount animations are. If they change it,not only there will be a huge backlash but the work of the people who developed the mounts would be pointless. I can’t say I agree with the fact that it shouldn’t be added something to help the ones with the problem but in the end if it can’t be done without modifying the mount ,it should be left the way it is.The majority should not suffer for a minuscule minority.I know it sounds bad…but I think is the right thing.

Completely disagree. The minority is suffering far far worse than any majority could right now as losing a visual effect wont cause physical illness. It would be a shame and I am hoping so much that they are able to add options so we can customize it. The mounts look awesome but they give me and many others migraines within 10minutes. This makes a game i have invested 5 years into, literally unplayable.

Do you really think its ok to force me and the hundreds of others to quit the game now because of a visual design choice?

DeceiverX.8361:

I’d like to ask how many people have had similar issues with the Bobblehead mode, if they have. Sounds like it might be similar; not motion sickness, but something else that’s kind of odd.

I know the bobblehead april fool’s patch made the game literally unplayable for me – I don’t really get motion sickness and have some some acrobatics in real life to be quite familiar with quick rotations without much issue – but with the bobbleheads I was dry heaving within around two minutes of playing.

I haven’t played any of the PoF content as I don’t have much desire to play the expansion, but this is a huge deal that should be narrowed down for a fix.

I get motion sickness very quickly with the bobbleheads and also get it, albeit not as quickly, from the mounts.

zombyturtle.5980:

Completely disagree. The minority is suffering far far worse than any majority could right now as losing a visual effect wont cause physical illness. It would be a shame and I am hoping so much that they are able to add options so we can customize it. The mounts look awesome but they give me and many others migraines within 10minutes. This makes a game i have invested 5 years into, literally unplayable.

Do you really think its ok to force me and the hundreds of others to quit the game now because of a visual design choice?

Very much agree. The problem has to be addressed.

I have had no problems with mounts in the other games I have played that had them (Warhammer and WoW). I was even a feral Druid in Wow and so had flight form. No issue. GW2, I do have problems if I step away from the game for a decent amount of time. Then, the character and camera movements take a bit before my brain settles down. I cannot circle strafe, that makes me sick. I cannot deal when the camera moves in and out on its own when in tight places. That makes me sick. Gliding I had no problems with. I can half strafe (with leaning), so I can modify my turning enough to make it work for me. The mount just combines everything that is going to make my brain go wonky. Weird camera movements, no strafing, so I cannot modify my turns the way I do with my character. I tried it. I just ended up running all over that kitten desert, which was clearly not what the game intends for you to do.

Mounts are going to be required to experience the new content. This is a fact.

On one hand, we have the ‘majority’, who think the animations are cool, oh so realistic, and pretty please don’t mess with them because we love it so much- people who’s gameplay is not impacted negatively in any way by the mounts. Their love for them is purely cosmetic, and if the mount animations hadn’t been the way they are now, would never have known any different. Their issue with the idea of changing mounts is cosmetic. They will be able to play the game, regardless of the mount animations.

On the other hand, we have the ‘minority’, who love the idea of mounts, but are experiencing non-trivial, real world disability from the current implementation- their gameplay is significantly impaired, and in some cases is a deal breaker; with the mount animations they way they are now, they will not be able to play the new expansion.

And here in this thread, we have a whole lot of people who think their non-game-breaking cosmetic frills and ruffles are the priority, and the people who are being actively harmed by a game they love playing should “just learn to live with it” so that their frills and ruffles don’t get taken away from them.

Fortunately, I think the Devs will be much more responsive to the people for whom the game is actually causing harm.

oh ..apparently i’m not the only one with motion sickness when riding mount… yeah it kinda feels weird , feels like to vomit, just like when you are maxing the field of view for the first time.

If zooming out to max, and disabling motion blur doesn’t help I don’t see how the devs can help. It’d be amazing if they can pin point the issue and help the people having the problem with some sort of new slider, but there is not even a color blind mode for the game. I’m not saying that to bag on them or anyone, but I don’t think it’s healthy to delete core features.

Animations aren’t frills to me, and organic/realistic ones are better for your mind to comprehend. Which might be the cause in the first place. It does feel like riding a mount, so the fix might be a slider that adds different animations that distance people from visuals that mimic the experience too well. Changing the controls of the mounts however is just a flat out non-discussion. Nothing about not being able to strafe causes motion sickness.