Guild Wars 2

All Projectile Reflects should be made into Projectile Destroy.

Projectile Destroy is fair. It reduces most ranged damage by 100%. Mesmer Greatsword being a big exception, but that might be a bug. Projectile Destroy is an extra invulerability on top of the usual ones that work against all attacks. Ranged attacks have extra range, so it’s ok to have more counters.

Projectile Reflect seems wrong. Not only is the damage reduced by 100%, the projectile is send back with 100% damage. That’s a 200% difference. Projectile Reflect is also making some PvE encounters rather silly, like Lupicus. Those PvE encounters wouldn’t be so bad if you could only destoy projectiles rather than sending them back with 100% damage.

I understand it’s to show off the engine’s capabilities and what not, but it’s worth reconsidering I think. If you want to keep it, you could make Projectile Reflect act more like Retaliation for example.

It’s a ranged attack counter. It’s making players pay attention and not ranged attack if they don’t want to kill themselves. It’s doing its job. Obviously, the more powerful the projectile the more powerful the skill is. Changing it would make the skill completely pointless in everything but PvE, and mostly useless there. Maybe this new AI they’re talking about for HoTs will make it’s way in to some of the core enemies, and they’ll get less stupid about hammering away on reflecting players.

Projectile Reflect is supposed to be a danger to the one causing the projectiles. Whenever you see a projectile reflect you’re supposed to stop shooting, which not only reduces the damage-difference from 200% to 100%, but also makes you have some good skills off cooldown as soon as pr is over. Also you can still use non-projectile attacks while the pr is active.

Projectile reflection should function more like a counterattack…. because that is exactly what it is.

Being able to “counterattack” every single attack a foe throws at you simply because he has the disadvantage of being a ranged attacker is broken.

Reflect skills should have their duration drastically decreased so that it becomes much more of a timing thing.

That being said, damage output from the reflect should be increased to be more punishing to the attacker, and rewarding for the skillful player who timed it properly…. in a true counterattack fashion.

Depending on how well the previous description functions, the recharge time can be adjusted accordingly.

Why would you ruin one of the most interesting aspects of the combat system?

Nothing wrong with reflect- and that’s coming from someone who mains ranger a lot of the time.

It’s retaliation that can really hurt, due to the difference between damage caused and damage retal’d back to you, usually seconds after you fire off a barrage or proc on your aoe or use piercing.

Reflects are balanced around the obvious advantages that being outside of melee attacks gives. While there are NPC’s that bug out when glitched into a wall (yeah thats an exploit,) its just Anet’s failure to correct the bug that exaggerates the problem till everyone uses an exploit because there are no repercussions for doing so.

Speaking of Lupi, Come on Anet how hard is it to make him go immune and run out to the center of room if he is Manipulated into an outside wall.

Since it hasn’t been mentioned, mesmer GS #1 isn’t a projectile. It’s a beam, similar to ele scepter air #1. The only projectile the weapon has is Mirror Blade, which happens to be unblockable (since release), which in turn also makes it unreflectable.

mesmer king of reflects

If you see someone throw up reflect, I dunno maybe switch to melee and/or stop shooting for like 5 secs?

A ranged attack will still be capable of hitting in melee.

A melee attack will not be able to hit outwith its small melee range.

Reflect allows for people who build a pure melee character to be dangerous to someone at range. Except for those professions without reflects, who just have to suck it up.

The only thing is to make sure you are aware you need to dodge away if your rapid fire comes back

Many proffesions have reflects. It’s a good defence vs ppl with 1500 range

serenke.4806:

Why would you ruin one of the most interesting aspects of the combat system?

cuz he mains ranger and likes to pewpew from 1200+ w/o any counters

In WvW Wall of Reflection lasts a full 10 seconds (12 seconds traited). That’s a very long wait.

If it destroyed projectiles, it would still be powerful, it just wouldn’t be this overpowered against all projectiles.

Projectiles really have to fight this huge uphill battle because it has more counters than anything else in the game (projectile reflect and projectile destroy). The worst being Reflect which is literally a slap in the face. It’s like retaliation and confusion, but on overdrive.

Maybe if projectiles were immune to retaliation it would be a bit more fair as well. Some ranged attacks not being influenced by projectile destroy and projectile reflect is also unfair. Either all ranged attacks should be affect or projectiles should have other advantages (like immunity to retaliation).

The point of reflection is to punish the attacker. Block is the mechanic which just mitigates damage.

Reflect increases the risk of remaining ranged or using projectiles; it makes for more interesting combat, even in PvE.

tl;dr mechanic works great imo.

The immediate response I have to this is “git gud.” My second thought is to tell you to stop asking for something to be nerfed because you cannot deal with it. And finally, if you’re a pewpew camper, you deserve to get your own arrows shot back into your face if you cant properly adjust and move into melee range, or FURTHER AWAY to draw them away from the protection they put down.

Draknar.5748:

If you see someone throw up reflect, I dunno maybe switch to melee and/or stop shooting for like 5 secs?

Or change locations as most reflect fields are stationary.

No, reflection is balanced the way it is. Don’t need a nerf nor a buff.

You want the game to change because want to keep hitting from distance and don’t want to be penalized for that. If didn’t noticed, that’s the balance for ranged attacks, that’s the counter. Utilities have cooldown and if one wants, will have to give up on a trait to make it last longer, the ranged attacks doesn’t have a cooldown, talking about auto-attack.

There are plenty of stuff it can be done when see the reflects are up: switch target, go melee, fall back and hold the attacks, use utilities in the meanwhile like traps.

On the retaliation subject, why someone who is using a projectile gets an immunity, a free pass from it, but a melee has to suffer it? If you want to rapid fire for 11k from 1500 range and don’t want to take caution, you deserve to suffer the retaliation back. It is a good counter against someone who can almost “one shot” you from long distance. One can argue that retaliation could be toned down, however, to give privileges to some professions? Definitely no.

If you want to pew pew from 1500 units a target that have retaliation up, ask a necro or mesmer to corrupt or strip their boon.

All I’m saying is that reducing attack damage by 100% should be more than enough.

Changing Reflect into Destroy would barely even be a noticable change to the user. He’s still not going to be taking any damage.

Projectiles are the only thing in the game that can be reflected back. Retaliation doesn’t even dare thread on that territory.

Reflect doesn’t even work against all ranged attacks, only against projectiles. So projectiles being a ranged attack is largely irrelevant, or Mesmer Greatsword lasers should also be reflected.

So, change reflect into destroy and make it work against all ranged attacks.

This should also fix PvE encounters like Lupi and open more options to PvE encounter design without having to worry about the boss completely destroying himself.

At the very least Reflect should come with a “Reflected” popup, like “Evade” And “Obstructed” currently has.

No thanks. Maybe we should get rid of dodge too. And blocks. And lets remove weapons. What is wrong with you?

But then it wouldn’t be as fun… Nothing more satisfying then throwing up wall of reflection or earth shield(or whatever the Ele reflect is called), and watching a ranger panic trying to cancel his attack while getting pelted by their own burst.

The advantage of projectiles is that they can combo. Pretty much all projectile weapons have some attacks that aren’t projectiles too.

Reflection is fine

Anet: Don’t change this. It works just fine.

Seriously.

I hate reflects, but I adapted.

It’s working as intended, and just fine as it is.

smh

Reflect is fine.

You cite Wall on Guard as an issue. Here’s a thought, move your kitten . You really aren’t supposed to just stand there and pew pew. WoR and Feedback are both easy enough to maneuver around if you pay attention.

As for mesmer great sword. Skill 1 (Spacial surge) is a “beam”, not a projectile. Confusing Images, skill 3 on scepter, is similar. Skill 2 (Mirror blade) is a projectile; however, it does specifically call out that the skill in unblockable in it’s skill tips (always been this way). So…not bugs.

Yes, reflects can trivilize certain pve battles. That is not a reason to remove the mechanic though. It is however an incentive for the devs to 1) look at the strength of reflects and 2) look at their mob AI and make it better.

yah, the OP confirmedly mains ranger and he thinks he’s entitled to just stand in one spot and powpow away people from 1500 range. Hey OP, while you are it, why don’t you also ask to double the range, because you know 1500 is also unfairly short and people with gap-closer can get to you easily while you stand still.

Ignoring personal attacks, common sense advice and blind assumptions there haven’t been many good points made.

Some of the good points are that reflect is simply a fun mechanic and it would be sad to see it go. Which is a valid point. I’d wager it’s the main reason it’s in the game and the main reason it won’t be removed nor changed.

Another was that the upside to projectiles over other ranged attacks is that projectiles can trigger combo fields. Which is also a fair point. I’d rather have un-reflectable, un-destroyable projectiles any day, but it’s still true.

The majority so far have been against the idea and I assume Anet won’t change this anyway because of the fun factor.

But Reflect should still come with a Reflected tell and maybe Rangers should get access to a trait that allows their projectiles be destroyed whenever they’re reflected. At least it’ll be a choice and a trait investment then. Maybe a mastery in the new mastery system.

Also there has to be a stop attack keyboard shortcut. Since pressing esc often doesn’t work the first time and pressing it too many times will remove the target.

Holland.9351:

Ignoring personal attacks, common sense advice and blind assumptions there haven’t been many good points made.

Some of the good points are that reflect is simply a fun mechanic and it would be sad to see it go. Which is a valid point. I’d wager it’s the main reason it’s in the game and the main reason it won’t be removed nor changed.

Another was that the upside to projectiles over other ranged attacks is that projectiles can trigger combo fields. Which is also a fair point. I’d rather have un-reflectable, un-destroyable projectiles any day, but it’s still true.

The majority so far have been against the idea and I assume Anet won’t change this anyway because of the fun factor.

But Reflect should still come with a Reflected tell and maybe Rangers should get access to a trait that allows their projectiles be destroyed whenever they’re reflected. At least it’ll be a choice and a trait investment then. Maybe a mastery in the new mastery system.

Also there has to be a stop attack keyboard shortcut. Since pressing esc often doesn’t work the first time and pressing it too many times will remove the target.

Dodge cancels attacks.

Holland.9351:

Ignoring personal attacks, common sense advice and blind assumptions there haven’t been many good points made.

Some of the good points are that reflect is simply a fun mechanic and it would be sad to see it go. Which is a valid point. I’d wager it’s the main reason it’s in the game and the main reason it won’t be removed nor changed.

Another was that the upside to projectiles over other ranged attacks is that projectiles can trigger combo fields. Which is also a fair point. I’d rather have un-reflectable, un-destroyable projectiles any day, but it’s still true.

The majority so far have been against the idea and I assume Anet won’t change this anyway because of the fun factor.

But Reflect should still come with a Reflected tell and maybe Rangers should get access to a trait that allows their projectiles be destroyed whenever they’re reflected. At least it’ll be a choice and a trait investment then. Maybe a mastery in the new mastery system.

Also there has to be a stop attack keyboard shortcut. Since pressing esc often doesn’t work the first time and pressing it too many times will remove the target.

u forgot that it is a counter to range since often times range can be coming at u from 1500… thats a pretty legitimate argument against it

plus the tell that its going to be reflected is usu the gigantic blue wall, or purple line, etc

also i think stow weapon will cancel your attacks

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…..
Being able to “counterattack” every single attack a foe throws at you simply because he has the disadvantage of being a ranged attacker is broken.
….

But it CAN’T counter “every single attack”….only those that are made during a specific period of time. If players could generate non-stop reflects, then it would be broken, but as is, it should make the attacker pay attention. Note that ALL attack chains can be halted in some manner (moving, dodge, ESC key, etc.).

Despite what you think, YOU need to alter your play style, not request that Anet change the game mechanics to suit how you are playing.

Holland.9351:

Also there has to be a stop attack keyboard shortcut. Since pressing esc often doesn’t work the first time and pressing it too many times will remove the target.

Bind a key to stow weapon instead of pressing esc

There is a tell for reflects, big purple dome, big glassy white wall, glowing “orange” ball around the target, or maybe even a traited warrior doing his block animations. In all cases there’s a tell as well as the projectiles flying back at you.

Ballads.2509:

Reflects are balanced around the obvious advantages that being outside of melee attacks gives. While there are NPC’s that bug out when glitched into a wall (yeah thats an exploit,) its just Anet’s failure to correct the bug that exaggerates the problem till everyone uses an exploit because there are no repercussions for doing so.

Speaking of Lupi, Come on Anet how hard is it to make him go immune and run out to the center of room if he is Manipulated into an outside wall.

How about NPCs obeying the normal rules of not being able to walk through walls? That would also fix a bunch of bugs!

Ooooooooh, i get it now…

you’re a ranger that put all your eggs in the “hit 2 on my attack bar from really far away to melt people” and now you are feeling the affects of people that heave learned to fight that meta.

There are plenty of ways to know that your shots are about to be reflected, and the fact that LB 2 skill is on a much smaller CD than many of the reflect skills out there, I can’t feel too bad about rangers that end up eating their arrows on occasion.

Jaxom.7310:

u forgot that it is a counter to range since often times range can be coming at u from 1500… thats a pretty legitimate argument against it

But destroying projectiles would also still be a counter. So it doesn’t really help as an argument. Also, reflect doesn’t counter range, only projectiles. Most projectiles are 900 range. Non-projectile ranged attacks can be 1200 range like Mesmer Greatsword.

Jaxom.7310:

plus the tell that its going to be reflected is usu the gigantic blue wall, or purple line, etc

That’s a valid point. But a wall or a hill is also visible, yet the game tells me when a projectile is “obstructed”. The game also tells me “evade” when I evade an attack… eventhough I should already know because I pressed the button myself. It’s a quality of life change. In zerg fights it’s often very hard to see if projectiles get destroyed or reflected. It also depends largely on your video settings how visible something is.

Jaxom.7310:

also i think stow weapon will cancel your attacks

I’d definitely try that, thanks.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Projectile reflection should function more like a counterattack…. because that is exactly what it is.

Being able to “counterattack” every single attack a foe throws at you simply because he has the disadvantage of being a ranged attacker is broken.

Reflect skills should have their duration drastically decreased so that it becomes much more of a timing thing.

That being said, damage output from the reflect should be increased to be more punishing to the attacker, and rewarding for the skillful player who timed it properly…. in a true counterattack fashion.

Depending on how well the previous description functions, the recharge time can be adjusted accordingly.

Reflection counters ranged attacks. The large amount of AoE CC this game offers can affect ranged, but nowhere near as much as it affects melee, which is already fighting to be in range to do damage. If you’re going to require precise timing and offer a very short window for a ranged counter, it seems only fair to require precise timing and fewer pulses for all that AoE melee hate.

OP I really don’t see a valid complaint here. I play ranger quite a bit myself (in fact, I have 3 of them – human, charr, and sylvari) and I have 0 issues with reflect. Have I killed myself because I wasn’t paying attention and mashed 2 on a longbow? Sure. Taught me to pay attention to wtf I was doing and what other people were using.

I feel having some type of ranger trait that allows reflected projectiles to be destroyed would be an issue in itself. Many people simply wouldn’t use it, so it would be a waste of a trait. It also offers the user an opportunity to play lazily with little consequence for their choice of actions.

I suppose I could live with them adding a ‘reflected’ word pop up although that would just add to clutter on the screen in my opinion.

Holland.9351:

All Projectile Reflects should be made into Projectile Destroy.

Projectile Destroy is fair. It reduces most ranged damage by 100%. Mesmer Greatsword being a big exception, but that might be a bug. Projectile Destroy is an extra invulerability on top of the usual ones that work against all attacks. Ranged attacks have extra range, so it’s ok to have more counters.

Projectile Reflect seems wrong. Not only is the damage reduced by 100%, the projectile is send back with 100% damage. That’s a 200% difference. Projectile Reflect is also making some PvE encounters rather silly, like Lupicus. Those PvE encounters wouldn’t be so bad if you could only destoy projectiles rather than sending them back with 100% damage.

I understand it’s to show off the engine’s capabilities and what not, but it’s worth reconsidering I think. If you want to keep it, you could make Projectile Reflect act more like Retaliation for example.

I disagree with you completely and I play equally toons / builds who are ranged and get reflected and those who reflect.

What it all comes down to is that you are frustrated due to your own personal inability to deal with this. However it is very wrong of you to group up the rest of us in this category.

My recommendation for you is to play the reflecting toons, most often glamour mesmers with feedback and concecration guards with wall of reflection. Play them in a variety of situations, dungeons, fractals (especially the one with the harpies), WvW roaming, WvW large scale and SPVP.

After you grasp the basics of these mechanics, you will by default have a very easy time dealing with them.

Yea, there’s gotta be a way to limit the reflects, as in you shouldn’t be able to set more reflects than ranged attacks people can put out. I think most of these skills should have cooldowns so that it’d be harder to time.

Oh wait.

In PvE, reflects are not only utility, but they are a great boost to dps and pve is centered around dps. Timing your reflects while providing safety is a more fun option then just hitting someone which makes it really tedious.

In anything else, well, most classes have something that’s not a projectile to use. Rangers, for example, have barrage, and then you can always take advantage of your range to reposition yourself. It’s not really anyone’s fault if you spam 1 into a blue wall.

Besides, in wvw at least, there are quite a few people complaining about being sniped from afar, and that the cooldowns from reflects aren’t sufficient enough.

Reflection is fine in PvP and WvW

But it’s overpowered in PvE, where NPCs can’t chose to stop shooting projectiles if it’s reflected. This is why so many NPC skills were changed from projectile to non-reflectible projectile. I wouldn’t mind most projectile reflects being turned into projectile destroy in PvE alone, but only some – not all – and NPCs should retain their reflects.

ArchonWing.9480:

pve is centered around dps

Just because it is, doesn’t mean it should be.

Why shouldn’t it be?

Brother Grimm.5176:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…..
Being able to “counterattack” every single attack a foe throws at you simply because he has the disadvantage of being a ranged attacker is broken.
….

But it CAN’T counter “every single attack”….only those that are made during a specific period of time. If players could generate non-stop reflects, then it would be broken, but as is, it should make the attacker pay attention. Note that ALL attack chains can be halted in some manner (moving, dodge, ESC key, etc.).

Despite what you think, YOU need to alter your play style, not request that Anet change the game mechanics to suit how you are playing.

I’m talking about pve mobs absolutely obliterating themselves on a team that times their reflects to maintain 100% projectile reflection/destruction.

In pvp, if a player shoots projectiles into a wall of reflection or feedback he deserves to get hurt for not seeing the obvious glowing white wall or purple bubble associated with it.

PvE mobs will literally attack themselves to death on reflects because their AI doesn’t have any countermeasure programmed.

ArchonWing.9480:

Why shouldn’t it be?

Because if everything is about ‘more dps’ then it becomes boring, static. There would be one optimal build. The one that does the most damage.

Even the holy trinity would be better. I’ve got many friends who tire quickly of GW2’s combat because it is only dps focused, and find games that focus on the trinity to be a godsend.

GW2 has a lot of potential with its combat system, but currently it only matters for dps which results in our berserker meta, leaving any concept of support, control, debilitation, etc. gone in the dust.

Of course some people won’t mind such but from what I see, most people do.

no.

just now.

projectile reflection is working as intended since beta weekends 3 years ago, and will remain the same, unchanged. until no further notice.

Holland.9351:

Snip

No.

We have both in game and they both have unique uses where 1 is more useful than the other. Leave it as such and learn not to fire blindy.

It’s action skill based combat for a reason.

I don’t understand the complaints, reflects make perfect sense to me.

So to simplify this…..

You don’t like reflect because you shoot yourself to death?

sephiroth.4217:

So to simplify this…..

You don’t like reflect because you shoot yourself to death?

Pretty much. His posts are mostly all in the Ranger forums.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Brother Grimm.5176:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

…..
Being able to “counterattack” every single attack a foe throws at you simply because he has the disadvantage of being a ranged attacker is broken.
….

But it CAN’T counter “every single attack”….only those that are made during a specific period of time. If players could generate non-stop reflects, then it would be broken, but as is, it should make the attacker pay attention. Note that ALL attack chains can be halted in some manner (moving, dodge, ESC key, etc.).

Despite what you think, YOU need to alter your play style, not request that Anet change the game mechanics to suit how you are playing.

I’m talking about pve mobs absolutely obliterating themselves on a team that times their reflects to maintain 100% projectile reflection/destruction.

In pvp, if a player shoots projectiles into a wall of reflection or feedback he deserves to get hurt for not seeing the obvious glowing white wall or purple bubble associated with it.

PvE mobs will literally attack themselves to death on reflects because their AI doesn’t have any countermeasure programmed.

Yeah, that’s a problem with AI, not with reflect.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArchonWing.9480:

Why shouldn’t it be?

Because if everything is about ‘more dps’ then it becomes boring, static. There would be one optimal build. The one that does the most damage.

Even the holy trinity would be better. I’ve got many friends who tire quickly of GW2’s combat because it is only dps focused, and find games that focus on the trinity to be a godsend.

GW2 has a lot of potential with its combat system, but currently it only matters for dps which results in our berserker meta, leaving any concept of support, control, debilitation, etc. gone in the dust.

Of course some people won’t mind such but from what I see, most people do.

When you run the same content thousands of times, anything becomes stale. I would say the lack of a dynamic or even functional AI is the cause of boring gameplay. The above thread shows a very simple example of enemies shooting themselves to death. Of course that’s boring. It’s boring against other players that don’t realize that either. As a result, I feel that pve is more fun just by striking enemies dead faster and doing it as fast as possible.

Also, I haven’t done any dungeons in the last two weeks since that patch, but unless things have changed drastically, there are so called zerker meta pve builds that aren’t full dps. There are full dps variants if support isn’t needed, but there are also more balanced zerker builds. Being zerker doesn’t prevent you from giving out any defensive boons.

Let’s look at a dps guardian guide; I assume these guys are knowledgable:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/3204949

There seems to be a few options here. Why are traits like battle presence, indomitable courage, and absolute resolution possible suggestions when they don’t hurt enemies? Or talk about rings of warding and blinds?