Guild Wars 2

When Guild Wars 2 was launched legendarys were a huge symbol of prestige. They were unique, they were special, you were able to change your stats. Long story short: they were worth it.
When Anet introduced the possibility to change the stats of ascended gear they lowered the value of legendarys. It was no longer necessary to craft new armors / weapons to get the right stats. I think it was the right decision. I love to be able to do it. But I am really sad about the value loss of the legendarys.
So what is the point to have a legendary nowadays?
Sure it is a kind of prestige but I think they should be something special, something unique.
For me as a legendary owner the most annoying thing is to be able to use different stats on my weapon but have to get always another sigil for it. So to don’t waste my money it’s still necessary to have several weapons for Condi/Tank/Heal/Physical damage. So why don’t we rework the legendary system? Why don’t let people place different sigils in the weapon and let them switch between them as they do it with stats?
Inspired of the system PvP gear works I had the idea to think about something that could work.

I think the picture speaks for itself. Unlocking Sigils by using them on your weapon.

If Anet think unlocking all Sigils are too much for a unique item switching between 3-5 Sigils at least.

To Be continued.

Edit: I don’t think legendarys are “not worth it” it was a bit of a quoke to “make them great again”. They are not outdatet but i just think its pointless to be able to switch between Stats but not the Sigils.
Edit²: Seperating the Sigils from Weapons would be a nice idea too. Or adding the possibilty to extract upgrade components without destroying your gear for less than ~50gold

Hope you make Anet see this.
If you like the idea post:
“Make Legendarys great again!”

I actually really like the idea of making legendaries something worth having again.

Your idea of swapping sigils would be one step into the right direction. So I second that!

Yes, This definitely

You’re forgetting the fact that most people playing gw2 dont have a legendary weapon and will most likely never have one. For them to think of a legendary will always be prestigious. Of course they lose some flavour for yourself when you have multiple weapons crafted already, but for the most part of the gw2 players its not the case. But sure, I mean for me (having 5 legendaries myself) something even more prestigious would be cool. We take away the glitter and the WOW ourselves by playing so much and beeing able to afford them. So its nothing wrong with legendaries not beeing “great” its just us farming too much.

And to be a little more on the idea of having that sigill thing you suggested: Thats actually a good idea. Legendary weapons should be able to save all the sigills you ever put in so you can have a list of them to choose from. like if I put in a fire sigill I can re-select it anytime in the future.

My 2 cents

I 100% agree with the OP, I suggested this idea 2 years ago and got shot down then, but maybe legendary’s where not as wide spread back then,

But I agree that on a Legendary when you use a sigil on it, it becomes unlocked on that weapons, allowing you to swap it out when not in combat, it would allow for more builds etc, instead of having to carry many different weapons of the same type with different sigils.

Not a bad idea, For me its all about the prestige, i’m working on Nevermore for no other reason that its a long term objective that you cannot just buy off the shelve and it provides rewards for various activities that I have not visited for a long time.

First when I saw the title of this thread, I thought it would be something with complaining and a silly suggestion… sorry, but I can be a bit of a pessimist sometimes.

I was wrong though. Your reasoning is pretty good and the suggestion not unreasonable or bad at all. I can definitely get behind this idea. +1

Thor IV.4621:

When Anet introduced the possibility to change the stats of ascended gear they lowered the value of legendarys. It was no longer necessary to craft new armors / weapons to get the right stats. I think it was the right decision. I love to be able to do it. But I am really sad about the value loss of the legendarys.
So what is the point to have a legendary nowadays?

1. The skin
2. The ability to switch stats out of combat instead of running to the Mystic Forge with materials for the new stat
3. The weapon strength on top of the additional convenience

One could argue that, because legendary weapons are so legendary, they should have higher stats than ascended weapons and that shouldn’t be the case. Legendary weapons are fine as they are statistically. The problem you’re presenting is something ALL types of gear suffer from.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

For 250 gems, which far exceeds the gold value of any rune and sigil in the game, we can safely remove runes or sigils from a piece of gear, ONCE, as in on a single piece of equipment.

In Guild Wars 1, this salvage kit/extractor was called a Perfect Salvage kit.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Perfect_Salvage_Kit

It costed skill points, some materials, and a bit of currency to craft.

No other salvage kit in GW2 has the same chances as the Upgrade Extractor from the gemstore. Black Lion Salvage Kits destroy the equipment it is used on.

Instead of limiting the management of sigils and runes to one tier of gear, why not remove this kit from the gemstore and add it in-game somehow to solve issues like these? It covers more ground, the rune and sigil market will be less impacted, and the playerbase will have an easier time adjusting to the meta instead of throwing runes and sigils out the window whenever they switch the stats of their ascended weapons, destroy their exotic weapons, or replace sigils on legendary weapons.

I actually really like this idea. As you suggested, I think it is a good idea that all sigils for a given legendary should start off in the locked state, and then be unlocked by using the sigil on the weapon.

That would add progression-within-progression, in a way.

Jovel.5706:

Thor IV.4621:

When Anet introduced the possibility to change the stats of ascended gear they lowered the value of legendarys. It was no longer necessary to craft new armors / weapons to get the right stats. I think it was the right decision. I love to be able to do it. But I am really sad about the value loss of the legendarys.
So what is the point to have a legendary nowadays?

1. The skin
2. The ability to switch stats out of combat instead of running to the Mystic Forge with materials for the new stat
3. The weapon strength on top of the additional convenience

One could argue that, because legendary weapons are so legendary, they should have higher stats than ascended weapons and that shouldn’t be the case. Legendary weapons are fine as they are statistically. The problem you’re presenting is something ALL types of gear suffer from.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upgrade_Extractor

For 250 gems, which far exceeds the gold value of any rune and sigil in the game, we can safely remove runes or sigils from a piece of gear, ONCE, as in on a single piece of equipment.

In Guild Wars 1, this salvage kit/extractor was called a Perfect Salvage kit.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Perfect_Salvage_Kit

It costed skill points, some materials, and a bit of currency to craft.

No other salvage kit in GW2 has the same chances as the Upgrade Extractor from the gemstore. Black Lion Salvage Kits destroy the equipment it is used on.

Instead of limiting the management of sigils and runes to one tier of gear, why not remove this kit from the gemstore and add it in-game somehow to solve issues like these? It covers more ground, the rune and sigil market will be less impacted, and the playerbase will have an easier time adjusting to the meta instead of throwing runes and sigils out the window whenever they switch the stats of their ascended weapons, destroy their exotic weapons, or replace sigils on legendary weapons.

This would be another nice solution! I like it too!

Fun fact: at launch you couldn’t change the stats on a legendary, and they all came with soldier’s stats (power, toughness, vitality), meaning it was common practice for players to make one and then transmute the skin onto another level 80 exotic to get the stats they wanted. If you wanted to change the stats you had to get another exotic weapon and transmute it again.

It was only when ascended weapons were introduced and legendaries were given equivalent stats that they added the ability to swap stats. Which was done because ascended weapons were supposed to be much harder to make, so having to make a legendary and then make another ascended weapon to transmute it onto was seen as unreasonable. The fact that you can swap stats anywhere is a bonus, but I doubt Anet really expected many people to change them on such a regular basis that changing the sigil is a problem, or even necessary.

There was never any prestige associated with legendary weapons.

But some sort of sigil swapping mechanism might be a nice addition. I don’t think it should be retroactively applied though.

Awesome idea. Hopefully when legendary armors come out, Anet will make this change and the armors will follow the same principle, with selectable runes.
Tho imo buying or unlocking sigils after spending thousands of golds for a weapon is… well.. too much, so we can just have free selectable sigils, but if we have to unlock SOME that’s fine too, just not all of it…

Has been requested and much supported a bazillion times. Without any reaction from “I’m not talking to you” Net.
Might help to post this QoL request on here reddit. Seems they’re boycotting that less consequently. ^^

Danikat.8537:

Fun fact: at launch you couldn’t change the stats on a legendary, and they all came with soldier’s stats (power, toughness, vitality), meaning it was common practice for players to make one and then transmute the skin onto another level 80 exotic to get the stats they wanted. If you wanted to change the stats you had to get another exotic weapon and transmute it again.

This.

Legendarys are fine. They are best in slot items and were upgraded during their lifetime. Everybody asking for more is quite plain just greedy.

What most people love to forget (besides the economical effect) of removing the necessity for swaping sigils is the huge benefit players with legendarys would have. Build doesn’t work for the upcomming boss/enemys? No problem, let me just switch to condi build. The game would turn into a change your build every 15 seconds as required. Sure the same effect is doable with multiple sets of gear, but that is not expected of players (yet). Adding such a mechanic to legendarys would make them must have gear tier, especially once legendarys are available for ever slot.

Not only that, ever since the new wardrobe system legendary skins are all over the place. Wanted to dual wield Incinerator? To bad, had to make 2. Now all you need is a transmutation charge and a spare offhand.

The idea is also as old as stat changing on legendarys. It goes hand in hand with people asking for legendarys to get stat bumps over ascended items and other nonsense.

While I don’t care one way or the other about adding sigil selection to legendaries, I’m not convinced that legendaries need help “being great again.”

People can talk about how they’ve become more common over the years as more people make them, or how ascended weapons are creeping on their stat-switching feature, but legendaries are still a major investment to obtain, and still in very high demand. Whether they’re “worth it” depends on an individual player’s priorities, but they’re obviously still worth it for a lot of players.

Again, I don’t care one way or the other about adding sigils, but let’s not treat legendaries like they’re yesterday’s shinies that no one cares about today. It’s the same as it ever was: If you want prestige, make a legendary. If you want hipster prestige, make Mjölnir or something.

I think this kind of thing would be great, is even go so far as to say that it should just be built into the legendary the same way as the stats are without the need to unlock the individual sigils (that would just add an additional data storage “cost” per item).

The cost of buying one of each sigil type is so tiny compared to the cost of creating a legendary that it’s hardly worth considering.

Note: I do not own a legendary myself nor am I likely to any time soon.

Sigils/runes need a revamp and should be a 1 time unlock. All they currently do is discourage trying different builds,

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

I like the idea and I find it logic, it’s pointless to set an move from stats x to y if the sigils for x are completely different from those of y.

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

Legendaries require gold; that’s it.

Like many others, I have never had a precursor drop since GW2 launched.

To be truly legendary, precursors should have been account bound. Legendaries are already gated by gifts but some gifts are also gold monetized.

However, fixing it is like closing the barn door after leaving it open for 3 years.

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

I read between the lines, perhaps mistakenly, to infer that the OP meant character power when he said, “functional advantage.”

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

STIHL.2489:

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

This.

Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.

Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.

insanemaniac.2456:

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.

Cyninja.2954:

STIHL.2489:

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

This.

Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.

Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.

insanemaniac.2456:

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

They already offer an insignificant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The proposed sigil update would change that to a significant functional advantage.

Ashen.2907:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

They already offer an insignificant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The proposed sigil update would change that to a significant functional advantage.

Neither is insignificant (stat swapping is far from insignificant look at the difference its made to people making Ascended equipment). Sigil swapping would not be overpowered.

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

It’s both actually, it has been both since they introduced stat swapping. Same stats as Ascended better functionality and cooler skin and effects (although YMMV on the “cooler” bit).

Pifil.5193:

Ashen.2907:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

They already offer an insignificant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The proposed sigil update would change that to a significant functional advantage.

Neither is insignificant (stat swapping is far from insignificant look at the difference its made to people making Ascended equipment). Sigil swapping would not be overpowered.

Okay, let’s look at the difference. A legendary weapon costs between 2.5-3.5k gold. That is aproximately 16 – 23 ascended weapons. Now if we assume that 3 different stat combinations cover all the builds useful that is still a cost of less than 1/5th of a legendary.

Ascended benefit in this case since you can slot in sigils apropriate for the build while legendarys require for sigils swaping while providing all stat combinations (useful with omni sigils that work in multiple builds).

So no, the pure stat swapping does NOT provide a huge functional advantage. Adding sigil swaping has a compounding advantage effect.

Pifil.5193:

It’s both actually, it has been both since they introduced stat swapping. Same stats as Ascended better functionality and cooler skin and effects (although YMMV on the “cooler” bit).

Again, not true. The stat changing effect for legendarys was added so players would not have to transfer skins onto ascended items which are inherently more expensive than exotics (by close to a factor of 30-50). The pure stat swapping effect without sigil changing is fluff at best or minor convegnience.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

Wrong, but it’s intersting that your solution to what you call a “significant advantage” is to add even more advantage on top. See my argument further up, legendarys are not ment to become required.

This again? How will this make Legendry’s great? All this will do is make them a must have, and lay waste to the sigil market. same for people who want runes swap for legendary armor. all this will do is make them a one time buy and that’s it. Lets not forget, people don’t change stats all that often in PvE, I know people have different builds for WvW, but if you are a hard core WvW player, you already have your gear.

I’m willing to bet that 99% of people with legendary weapons have not changed the stats since they first set them. I’ve never changed the stats on mine, what’s the point? We all know DPS is king. that’s why 99% of players run full zurker in PvE.

The point of the stat swap was so that when you made your legendary way back when, they had a set stat. so if you waned a different set of stats you would have to transmute the legendary skin on to the desired weapon. ANet felt later that you should not have to do this. So they added a stats selection. and if you wanted to pass it around your characters, and wanted different stats for them you could. Once you make a legendary weapons you should never have to make it again. But they need something to keep them from being a must have. and come on, if you can make legendary weapons you have gold to spear. it’s not like sigils cost that much, and you get 2g just for dailies.

If for what ever reason someone is going to change there sigil, they are not planning on changing it on a whim.

With the weapons, but even more important with the legendary armor soon to be available, what happens with the runes and respectively sigils on this weapons when stats are changed?
I think all legendary items need to have few separate, parallel slots for sigils/runes. When I swap to a certain stats, the specific sigils/runes(that I inserted with the stats) swap with it.
Or should we buy and replace them every time?! I say no!

Legendary sigil and runes will have to come sooner or later. Probably later.

This idea was, once again, discussed not even 2 weeks ago:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Making-legendarys-great-again-TBC/first#post6169005

Short answer:

- not going to happen

Long answer:

- read the other thread

The ability for Legendarys to change stats was implemented so players would not have to transmute the skin (back before the wardrobe system was implemented). It was never ment to have people circumvent an entire economic aspect of the game (value of changing sigils/runes).

Mortifer.2946:

Legendary sigil and runes will have to come sooner or later. Probably later.

Maybe, or more likely never since the current system works and adding more grind to the itemisation is not something the players base would take lightly.

Cyninja.2954:

Short answer:

- not going to happen

I don’t see any official response. Do you have dev quotes to back up that assumption?

Sir Mad.1092:

Cyninja.2954:

Short answer:

- not going to happen

I don’t see any official response. Do you have dev quotes to back up that assumption?

Nope, just common sense and understanding that to get something you need to give.

Runes and sigils are an integral part of the GW2 economy. Making them obsolete does the games economy no good. On the same note, buffing legendary items in this way would make them “need to have” especially for WvW.

Now count 1+1 together and the result is: not going to happen.

Now if someone would come up with a good idea how to counterbalance this change thus allowing for more flexibility and convegnience for the players while not making legendarys broken and negatively impacting the economy, go ahead and I’d be up for serious disscussion. Unfortunately all I’ve ever seen this kind of proper disscussion/idea was very one sided.

Well… The fact you think it’s not going to happen doesn’t mean it won’t, you know…

As for the economy, if sigils are unlocked on a per weapon basis, not only it wouldn’t lower their price since you’d still have to buy them, but it would even be very likely to slightly increase it as players would buy more for the same weapon (as opposed to “buy one and sit on it” we have now).

Yeah, math, 1+1, etc…

Sir Mad.1092:

Well… The fact you think it’s not going to happen doesn’t mean it won’t, you know…

As for the economy, if sigils are unlocked on a per weapon basis, not only it wouldn’t lower their price since you’d still have to buy them, but it would even be very likely to slightly increase it as players would buy more for the same weapon (as opposed to “buy one and sit on it” we have now).

Yeah, math, 1+1, etc…

You assuming that sigil’s need to drop in price for them to benefit the game economy…

I was talking from a general economic point of view, not personal player point. Cheaper sigil would need to get counter balanced.

Then again, you are right, maybe I’m wrong. Given how most other changes in the past have playerd out though (ascended recepies, crafting changes, precursor crafting, etc.), I’m confident my expectations are closer to reality than yours.

Just from the top of my head and the first thing that came to mind reading the title.

How would it be ifRunes/Sigils slottet in Legendaries would not override the present item but replace it, meaning that the previously slottet Rune/Sigil ends up in the users Inventory?

It wouldn’t help with Legendaries beeing a must have in WvW. An argument i doubt since the step to making the stats swappable should have placed them there already…but they haven’t.
Maybe, by making the replaced Rune/Sigil account bound on accuire, the impact on the market would be softened because still, you would need to own/carry all the Runes/Sigils you need/like.

Anyway. Not having Legendary upgrades with swappable stats is sad but I want ANet to first implement Legendary rings, amulets and ascessories.

Then It would be nice if they gave us a second Legendary armor to be earned in WvW, the other “third of the game” where swappable stats on an item actually matter.
ANet so far gave us/is planning to give us Legendary non-weapon items in Raids(content designed for a small group of players), Fractals(content designed for a broader audience still not for everybody) and PvP(at least this time it’s “one third of the game”, but having an Item with swappable stats for PvE makes a bad reward in PvP. imho).

If there is no rune stats to swap hope there is a least an option to have 3 or 4 different sets in it and you can change to thos stats. That way runes are still being bought. Leg armor needs to have something special as they will more and likely have the same stats as asc armor so it needs something to set it apart.

Sir Mad.1092:

Well… The fact you think it’s not going to happen doesn’t mean it won’t, you know…

As for the economy, if sigils are unlocked on a per weapon basis, not only it wouldn’t lower their price since you’d still have to buy them, but it would even be very likely to slightly increase it as players would buy more for the same weapon (as opposed to “buy one and sit on it” we have now).

Yeah, math, 1+1, etc…

The denial is strong in this one.

But this has been discussed on and off since HoT launched. With new legendary weapons scraped until ANet has time to start them back up again, do jot expect anything to happen on the legendary front after the armor.

ANet are busy trying to get players back in the game. Expect at least until the end of the year for them to be focused on player retention, and ESports.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Cyninja.2954:

STIHL.2489:

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

This.

Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.

Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.

insanemaniac.2456:

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping.

And I would bet they regret doing that, I suppose now since they made it so that you can change the stats of Ascended weapons and armor, they really should reset that feature and make it so that they need to be put in the Mystic Forge like all other Ascended Weapons.

It’s the only fair thing to do.

STIHL.2489:

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Cyninja.2954:

STIHL.2489:

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

This.

Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.

Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.

insanemaniac.2456:

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping.

And I would bet they regret doing that, I suppose now since they made it so that you can change the stats of Ascended weapons and armor, they really should reset that feature and make it so that they need to be put in the Mystic Forge like all other Ascended Weapons.

It’s the only fair thing to do.

I’m sure they don’t regret it at all. For one thing they’re not Ascended weapons.

In raw gold costs they cost at least 30 times as much as an Ascended weapon (and there are parts that you can’t buy so the effort involved in making a legendary is hardly comparable to the effort in making an Ascended weapon, especially if you build your precursor using the new system).

Put it this way, Zojjas greatsword costs 100g at these moment, that’s the cost of the 100 Icy Runestones that make up just one component of the Legendary greatsword sunrise.

Sigil swapping is such a minor thing when you take into account the huge difference in cost and effort. It’s not like everyone is going to stop making Ascended weapons and equip their characters with full legendaries because of it, that’s just not possible for the vast vast majority of players. The sigil markets won’t crash (I suspect any effect won’t even be noticeable).

I don’t even have a single Legendary yet, slowly working on my first one sigil swapping would be a nice to have feature that i would look forward to but wouldn’t affect my pace at all.

likewise. Legendaries should take a very long time to get, and because of this its reasonable that a player can swap sigils on it etc so they can use that weapon all the time – until they see another legendary they want to go after. Ascended Weapons cost about 100g, we can make that in a week with little effort.

SkyFallsInThunder.8257:

Cyninja.2954:

STIHL.2489:

Xstein.2187:

Ashen.2907:

STIHL.2489:

Ok. Here is the problem.

Is a Legendary Weapon/Item, a sign of prestige, or is it a functional advantage?

If it’s a sign of prestige, it does not need any changes, It’s already got a huge larger then life graphic, and feet effects that scream “look at me”

If it’s functional, it needs to be made a heck of a lot less grind, to make it accessible for the population, who will need this stupid item to stay competitive.

Solid points IMO.

If only everything that had any sort of functional advantage was easily accessible to the population. I’m looking at you Permanent Bank Access Contract, Permanent black lion merchant contract, and permanent trading post express contract. However, the above isn’t really my point.

There is no functional advantage to having an instant bank access. You are still as limited as anyone else with what you can put in it, and take from it.

I agree with the OP mainly because there has been so much work put into the game to try to increase build diversity without taking rune/sigil/stat swapping into consideration. They added viper stats, commander stats, changed how conditions work etc. Before it was just berserker. Now for chrono you need some commanders for raids, some assassins for fractals, and a different set for WvW. Thats 3 different sets of ascended armor if you want to be optimal for one class. Then if you want to play ele you have to use scholar runes instead of chrono runes and for Necro you need Viper armor with Thorn runes. Before, it was never like this. Times have changed. If an encounter requires different stats, then people will expect you to have them by switching armor sets. This will happen regardless of weather or not legendary armor or weapons has sigil/rune switching. To me, the ability to swap runes/sigils so I don’t have to carry multiple sets of armor alone would be a nice little perk for spending so much money on skins that are now even starting to look phased out by many of the black lion skins.

Thank you for explaining the Functional Advantage of sigil swapping.

With that put out, Legendary Weapons were never meant to provide a functional advantage, they were meant to be purely for show.

As such, I stand by what I first said:

Either it is a mark of Prestige, in which case it serves it’s purpose just fine as it is. a Lot of work to make, to stop others from doing it, so those with it, can brag they have it.

Or

It Provides a Functional Advantage (or needed Function) and thus should be made reasonably available to the masses.

This.

Especially this when the functional advantage brings with it a huge economic advantage. Otherwise buy some spare sigils and every time you change stats exchange the sigils aswell.

Legendary weapons are ment as prestige only and longterm goals (thus no extra functionallity needed while costing a high price). Stop trying to make them “must-have” or “need to have”.

insanemaniac.2456:

instead of cluttering up the legendary specific ui piece, how about “separating” sigils from weapons so that you can pick each independently of the other.

then you can make a “legendary sigil” which is extremely expensive and can provide a sink for all the crap sigils but allows switching at will, where normally slotting a nonlegendary sigil could overwrite whats already there.

(make the legendary sigil/rune require a new item crafted from any superior sigils/runes similar to how amalgamated gemstones are crafted from orbs and then used in HoT legendaries)

This is actually a solution which is more in line with benefitting every player instead of the select few. Would need to get counterbalanced economically but at least this way legendarys are not made even more unequal compared to ascended items. Thus not turning legendarys as much into a “need to have” gear tier.

You are wrong. They already offer a significant functional advantage in the form of stat swapping. The sigil update is only logical to happen.

go look up why the stat swap is there in the first place.

I’ll just tell you. Way back when legendary weapons where exotic, and with set stats. So if you wanted a stat and a legendary skin that did not have said stat, you had to transmute the skin on to the desired stat weapon. People felt this was a bit unfair. They had spent a lot of time and gold on making the legendary, only to then have to make another weapon if they wanted a different stat. ANet agreed, they felt you should only have to make a legendary weapon once. and when Ascended weapons came out Legendry’s where changed(It might have been a little before, but you get my point) keeping to there promise of not needing to ever make a legendary again, ANet made it so you could swap the stats on them at anytime, as long as you where not in combat.

So there is nothing logical to happen at all.

Like I said, I don’t think people change stats on there legendary weapons all that much, If you are going to swap sigils, your not going to do it just to “test” something out.