Guild Wars 2

GreyFeathers.8175:

The game is joining two groups of players with two very different goals and it’s a flawed design.

I don’t think it’s that clear-cut, really. My guild has a weekly WvW night and a weekly dungeon night. Mostly it’s the same players doing both.

I wouldn’t be opposed to removing WvW from 100% map completion. I think it’s great that it shows up in monthlies from time to time, though (to get people to try WvW; the penalty for not doing it is pretty low).

As for whether WvW should figure into legendary weapons, I’m conflicted. On the one hand, some people will just grind jumping puzzles or do some other useless thing to get the badges. On the other hand, the Badges of Honor requirement is one part of legendaries that isn’t just farming Orr over and over.

I hate it that you’re forced to participate in WvWvW to get 100% completion.

Carltonbanks.1754:

Waffler.1257:

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

I think you’re the one who needs to do some research, since you seem to be under the impression that GW1 and GW2 are the same game.

Oh you got me. I guess GW2 isn’t a PvP focused game. Oh wait, but why would you have to do PvP to finish map completion then…. hmmmmm

Twomix.5384:

I hate it that you’re forced to participate in WvWvW to get 100% completion.

I hate to sit in a hamsterwheel like FotM to get max stats. Deal with it or leave it. Simple as that.

I think it is supposed to have some benefits. But really. running around exploring is the worst WvW experience you can get. That’s quite interesting way to get people interested.
Stuff like WvW dailies. Bah, not fun!

The only thing 100% Map Completion awards you (besides a shiny star) is an ingredient for crafting a Legendary weapon. If that is something you want, then you have to do WvW anyway (for the 500 badges of honour) so it all kind of ties in.

Having said that, I hate it, too. I wish the reward was something you could make use of immediately, like a new set of town clothes or access to the Tyrian Explorer Society. I don’t even know where that is but wouldn’t it be great if it was a giant building with it’s own instance, and only players with 100% completion may enter and do some exclusive activities and generally feel like they accomplished something.

World completion needs a little more incentive than just an ingredient for an already elusive goal at the moment.

eric.6079:

so you are saying you want 100% map exploration without exploring 100% of the maps? yeah…ummmm…uhhhh….

So Pvp-ish maps NOT on the world map are included instead of dungeons which are actually on the map. It’s like including the moon on a map of the earth.

To get players into WvW make them want to, don’t force them, forcing someone to do something = not fun and chore-ish.

I am resigned to not getting any monthly achievements or legendary items because I choose not to participate in PvP (whether W3 or sPvP). This makes me sad and I’d rather that the PvP and PvE aspects of the game were kept completely apart from one another. That being said, I am acutely aware that it is my choice not to participate in that side of the game, so I don’t feel that I’m entitled to monthly achievements or legendary items.

Waffler.1257:

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

That requirement has been changed, there is no longer any PvP requirement to get out of pre-Searing Ascalon; this is presumably because the developers came to the conclusion that it was a really bad idea.

binidj.5734:

Waffler.1257:

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

That requirement has been changed, there is no longer any PvP requirement to get out of pre-Searing Ascalon; this is presumably because the developers came to the conclusion that it was a really bad idea.

Jade Quarry etc. were actually on the WORLD MAP so were included for good reason, well a more logical one at least than this hoops jumping tactic. Pre-searing wasn’t even included in the Cartographer title so you’re talking rubbish anyway (Waffler).

I bet people would still defend ideas like this even if they made you buy gems for 100%

Ps. I and many others (Guildies/Alliancies etc.) played GW1 for years and thought of it as a PvE game with PvP elements, depends on your perspective I guess. Although I think originally GW was intended to be PvP with the world being the tutorial or something?

Kumu Honua.2751:

The purpose of 100% completion including wvwvw is to get you to participate.

Participate!

Unfortunately it often has the opposite effect. People forced to enter the WvWvW maps generally just run around getting map completion as quickly as possible and actually don’t contribute at all. This just leads to annoyance for the folks that are there to contribute as those doing map completion are preventing others getting in that might help the cause.

Quite simply if you want something 100% you should have to participate in all aspects of the game.

As for getting a legendary, you’ll have to participate in WvW anyway to get 500 badges.

I was VERY annoyed about this, too – kudos for Gandara for going on a conquest spree and enabeling me to finally get my 100% I like my server ^^ (Although we get ‘owned’ quite often in WvW)

The thing is, I’d much rather have world completion without including the WvW worlds, maybe adding a specific achievement for that area? Because you are oh so dependent on your server’s success in WvW to get 100% in these areas…

Vayra.3290:

Quite simply if you want something 100% you should have to participate in all aspects of the game.

As for getting a legendary, you’ll have to participate in WvW anyway to get 500 badges.

You’re right, I’m sure on the WvW forums there was a big outcry of “We need more players taking up slots just to get a title and not contribute!”

Show me the Mists on the world map and I’ll change my mind.

If you don’t want to go to WvW, you don’t need to go for map completion. If you’re about going for the achievements, there are tons of achievements for PvP, so you’re screwed either way.

This whole thread is just makes no sense.

Frotee.2634:

I was VERY annoyed about this, too – kudos for Gandara for going on a conquest spree and enabeling me to finally get my 100% I like my server ^^ (Although we get ‘owned’ quite often in WvW)

Omg seems once again I missed it.. and I stayed up til 4am.. one day, one day Il be lucky enough to be there when it happens and get my last bits. Gratz anyway

This seems to be something much like the added content for ascended gear that’s got players split into camps on this. I’m not even going respond to the trolls showing up in this discussion or defend if this game is a P vs E game or P vs P game because quite frankly it’s both and ALL OF US we’re told we could play the game as we wished when we started. The play styles of the two types of players are completely different and take any topic that involves both P vs E and P vs P and you should readily see that for the most part we don’t get along or care for one another. I could start an entire topic on the aspects of both P vs E and P vs P but on these forums it would simply become a flame fest.

Back on topic though there were some good suggestions and ideas expressed in here. Splitting exploration into two seems like a good call. Myself I have not even looked into legendary items but after reading and looking at the badges of honor it does seem that unless you want to P vs P or W vs W you’re only going to get these from one dungeon right now which is Twilight Arbor. Not sure I’m going to do that area the required several hundred times plus that would be required to get those. That’s kind of a lopsided and there should be more ways in which to earn these. Here’s some suggested possible added ways in which to earn those.

1.) Dynamic Events – Some of these have some nice boss monsters. Why isn’t there a chance to earn these from those chests at the end of some of these ? You could also maybe include an award of 1 – 2 of these after a count of completing " X " number of dynamic events.

2.) Kill Count on rare monsters – Having killed or beaten " X " amount of champions or elite monsters which quite honestly many players run around or past instead of fighting them.

3.) Award some for 100 % map completion – I think that if we explore 100% of the world we’ve battled something. It should also be part of the award to get us started earning these.

( the counts on kills or events could be something that’s reset upon each award and would encourage players to assist and participate in the dynamic world we have )

It would seem that W vs W and P vs P already has a multitude of ways to earn these and it’s nothing I play so no suggestions there. Although there should be some reward for exploration in W vs W as well if the two are split.

I’m in the camp that legendary and ascended gear ( complete other topic there ) should be something that’s hard to acquire or is a HUGE time investment otherwise it’s simply something which would never be special. I don’t see why legendary items require P vs P though unless you really want to advertise GW 2 as a P vs P only game. We can certainly play with out earning any of the achievements or making any of the really cool stuff but do you really want to lock out a portion of your fans ? It needs to be redesigned, re-thought and the two kept separate because no matter what you do to entice or encourage P vs P play you’re going to leave out certain players and in the end even alienate certain fans. I’d start another thread to discuss the differences between the two play styles, the players, and the problems of each but I’d only create a topic destined to be closed or shut down that would contribute no positive feedback or suggestions what so ever. Just look at some of the posts already here in this thread.

P vs E and P vs P —-— We really don’t get along and don’t wish to be a part of one another.

WvW is actually PvE not PvP. The PvP part is seperated completely from the PvE part. WvW and PvE are intrinsicly linked. You take your skills, gear etc into WvW with you.

I’m not saying you are wrong to ask for it to be dropped from map completion, I’m just saying that WvW has far more in common with PvE (resources, mobs) than it does with PvP, other than actually fighting other players.

This is why the PvE daily/monthly also includes WvW whereas the seperate PvP daily/monthly do not include WvW.

Currently the game is split into 2 distinct elements – PvE (which includes WvW) and PvP (SPvP), so yeah. That’s why at least.

The only part of your post I object to is when you say all PvEr’s do not like or get along with all PvPr’s. You can only speak for yourself, not the community. I like to play all aspects of a game and get on fine with both sets of players on the whole. You can get just as many elitist kittens in dungeons as you can in battlegrounds and also just as many friendly helpful people.

Edit: Fwiw – This was brought up many times in Beta by WvW players that puzzles/vistas/poi and map completion should not be in WvW. It just took up places for people that could be helping the war effort.
As for BoH they are a WvW reward and should not be available anywhere else. It would be like asking for CoF tokens to be dropped in WvW. Doesn’t make any sense. Unfortunately if you do not wish to take part in certain parts of a game the ensuing rewards will rightfully be unavailable to you.

Because it’s part of the map.

100% means 100%. It does not mean 100% of PvE. It doesn’t mean 100% of areas you feel like going to. It means 100% of the map.

You know, on second thought…

The gold star is pretty impressive. There’s nothing else quite like it, in the sense of an achievement that’s actually in-your-face always-there.

How do you get the gold star?

You get a handful of map completions as you level.
You do Orr and Frostgorge Sound for the rewards.
So, before you’re even trying for it explicitly, you’re, like, 50% of the way there.
At this point, what’s left? WvW and going back and blitzing through the other low-level areas.

WvW map exploration is the only part of the gold star that really requires working at it (even then, it’s more of a matter of planning and timing than spending a lot of time).

Without WvW, 100% map completion is just devoting some time to revisiting maps that are really easy for a downscaled level 80 with reasonable gear. I think this thread makes a better argument for adding dungeons to map completion than for removing WvW.

Think about it from the opposite perspective: I don’t hear PvP-only players complaining about having to do PvE content to get their achievements. World completion means all of the world, and the PvP maps are part of that world.

W vs W is players vs other players not players vs. environment you can argue it’s P vs E all you want. If it were some map where all our groups got together to beat on some monsters I’d agree with some of these posts but it’s not we’re fighting other players.

though i am neutral on this, press M next time you are in game and point out where the pvp zones are on the world map…. oh wait.. they are not there…

Paul.4081:

binidj.5734:

Waffler.1257:

In Guild Wars 1 you had to play in a 4v4 arena match to get out of pre-searing. Guild Wars was a PvP focused game, maybe do research next time.

That requirement has been changed, there is no longer any PvP requirement to get out of pre-Searing Ascalon; this is presumably because the developers came to the conclusion that it was a really bad idea.

Jade Quarry etc. were actually on the WORLD MAP so were included for good reason, well a more logical one at least than this hoops jumping tactic. Pre-searing wasn’t even included in the Cartographer title so you’re talking rubbish anyway (Waffler).

I bet people would still defend ideas like this even if they made you buy gems for 100%

Ps. I and many others (Guildies/Alliancies etc.) played GW1 for years and thought of it as a PvE game with PvP elements, depends on your perspective I guess. Although I think originally GW was intended to be PvP with the world being the tutorial or something?

Pre-searing is a time, not a place. The area encompassed by pre-searing is required for Tyrian/Legendary cartographer, it’s just that you explore that part of the map after the searing.

Kandrick.8054:

Edit: Fwiw – This was brought up many times in Beta by WvW players that puzzles/vistas/poi and map completion should not be in WvW. It just took up places for people that could be helping the war effort.

As for BoH they are a WvW reward and should not be available anywhere else. It would be like asking for CoF tokens to be dropped in WvW. Doesn’t make any sense.

Unfortunately if you do not wish to take part in certain parts of a game the ensuing rewards will rightfully be unavailable to you.

Agree with you on a few things here, I don’t think players who are really doing W vs W for W vs W want or should endure the puzzles, vistas and POI’s in there because it really makes no sense for what the area is about. It is an attempt to combine P vs E and P vs P elements to appeal to both types of players but In my own opinion it’s a failed attempt. Since I sincerely doubt any new map would be made I still think those who want to do this and have done it should receive credit and some reward for it. Consider it an added bonus for smashing your opponents and controlling the maps.

For the BOH we’ll have to disagree to disagree on that. My crafting ability is not related in any way to P vs P so why should I have to endure W vs W in-order to get the materials needed to make a legendary weapon if I decide to ? What needs to happen and what I’ve said all along is the rewards for both P vs E and P vs P should remain separate and they need to stop making aspects of the game where you have to do one to accomplish the other. It really boils down to just that. I also think that P vs P players shouldn’t have to play any P vs E aspects of the game either if it’s something they don’t wish to do because I believe each player should play what they want. Look at the back lash over ascended gear. I can’t imagine P vs P players are happy one bit about that ( again another topic though ). What needs to happen though is aspects of your gaming play needs to stop being tied into areas that are completely different from where you actually play. Like I said I can craft and it isn’t something tied to P vs P so why put my materials in a spot I refuse or hate to play ? Just tell me that legendary weapons are only for P vs P players and I would have been satisfied. Just like exploration should be just that. Exploring the world we crawl, walk and run through not wait in a que to go fight other players.

Yes to certain things being only available to certain types of players as well and for doing certain things. If you can beat a very hard area of the game and have something cool to show for it awesome but don’t combine P vs P and P vs E and honestly that’s what’s been done. Keep the rewards separate and unique for each and don’t hold it out as a reward for players as something and later let them find out it isn’t even an aspect of the game they even intended or want to play.

Ask me question about P vs P or W vs W …….. I couldn’t even tell you what they’re about because I don’t P vs P and never will. I’ve honestly tried it and every time in every game have hated it and quit shortly after. GW 2 is and was no different. Arena.net has tried their hardest to combine the two elements here and although I think they have done a good job in some of those areas to make it a better P vs P experience than most games it is still a P vs P experience and if they follow the trend they are currently setting they will lose a portion of their player base eventually because the two are never going to completely mix.