Guild Wars 2

All I gotta say is that this game lies to you when it says “bosses scale to how many people are there”

I did an event with 70+ people for mega boss in caldeon forest and guess what happened. Boss died in 6 seconds. Also meteor shower never hurt him due to culling.

If your going to boast about scaling bosses with people, then you need to actually do it.

yeah the Big Boss mobs are abit of a joke, they die too quick, way way too quick, hell iw as at a jungle wurm event yesterday, he died within a few mere seconds, i was happy i got 1 hit in!

The jungle wurm is a bit broken, they are trying to fix it

They know their events are poorly scaled, again trying to fix.

We just have no idea how long its going to take till we see something released. If anet continues with the trend of new patches every month, i predict August.

uberkingkong.8041:

All I gotta say is that this game lies to you when it says “bosses scale to how many people are there”

I did an event with 70+ people for mega boss in caldeon forest and guess what happened. Boss died in 6 seconds. Also meteor shower never hurt him due to culling.

If your going to boast about scaling bosses with people, then you need to actually do it.

You are exaggerating. Either you know or you don’t, but bosses and events do scale based on the number of people there. The maw, Jungle Worm, etc. all change parameters for number of mobs spawned, health and other things based on active participation. What you are noticing is that there is a cap on scaling. That’s why if there are 75, 100 or 200 people there, the boss goes down quickly. What you probably mean to ask is why don’t bosses scale infinitely? There. Now discuss.

Edit: Specific to the Jungle Worm, yeah, anet did say that they are looking to adjust health values so that he doesn’t go down as quickly like Deified said. They might take a look at the others too but they don’t seem like a priority based on the fixes they’ve released over the last patches.

Some of the biggest bosses are quoted as scaling up to 100 players (shatterer I believe is the one quoted as doing this on the wiki, but the other dragon bosses likely do as well). It feels like these zones actually go into overflow before 100 players are actively joining in the event anyways, which means that the limit of scaling here is probably a good point to stop it at.

The majority of events only scale to 10 players or so, which is very likely what is happening to the jungle wurm, even though it’s a group event. Some collection events seem to scale nearly infinitely in order to allow any player passing by to participate, though in some cases this makes the event take far longer with more players around.

However, we have 2 things to note
1) ArenaNet have been working on updating scaling mechanics, as seen in Orr temple events and the Claw of Jormag fight in recent updates. These may propagate to other major events in the future.
2) They’re planning on fixing the Ancient Jungle Wurm very soon, likely in this month’s update.

70+ people is your problem. Stop using the timer so much.

My problem with the mega bosses are the low level ones, Maw and Behemoth are two examples. I was playing with my partner and she hit the boss plenty of times, yet she did not get a reward for either of the two. It’s in a low level area and caters for high level players, I think this is wrong. Myself as a 80 zerker warrior hit the boss and pre events the same amount as she did with a 20 mesmer, in the pre events she got bronze/silver, I got gold throughout and we were in a party. Was a rather weird experience.

Then again the events promote selfish greed anyway, not team play. If you stop to get someone up from downstate or spend time giving people boons and removing conditions you get a lesser reward than the selfish people that just mindlessly smack the boss.

It’s a very flawed system. I recall getting about 25-30 up from downstate at the centaur boss and I received a bronze reward because I didn’t damage the boss enough.

Bad design is bad.

Yeah the low levels ones scale pretty badly. But they are getting there. For regular events as well.

The Krait event by Tequila is just Anet trolling us saying “hey you said it was easy? Lets spawn a champion next to this champion and spawn another champion behind you and make each champion spawn 5 veterans while veterans spawn randomly in waves too”.

Dingle.2743:

However, we have 2 things to note
1) ArenaNet have been working on updating scaling mechanics, as seen in Orr temple events and the Claw of Jormag fight in recent updates. These may propagate to other major events in the future.
2) They’re planning on fixing the Ancient Jungle Wurm very soon, likely in this month’s update.

Make it three:
3) ANet said to relook at the scaling caps of those bosses.

As you said, those events have a cap in scaling. It’d be aweful for new players or lowbies to see a boss which oneshots everything with every skill just because there’re 100 ppl, so ANet capped the event scaling. But like the “wurm dies before event bug” they also said to have a look at the event scaling caps for the next big update.

Don’t remember what thread it was in, might be able to find it in the dev tracker, but they said they were adjusting some of these encounters in the next patch. (The one on April 30th I believe)

The Wurm is the absolute worst example you could have chosen. Numerous times he’s died without a life bar even showing up when i’ve been there. Dude needs a buff.

Shadow Behemoth scales pretty pathetically too; the Maw Shaman also goes down crazy fast.

These are events in literally the first zones in the game (1-15), and while I agree with you that those in particular could be tuned to scale better, your original premise is deeply flawed when viewing the game as a whole.

Try Grenth, Melandru or the Claw of Jormag with 70 people and tell me they’re not scaling to match. :P

Onshidesigns.1069:

70+ people is your problem. Stop using the timer so much.

Just wanna say, if they don’t want people to use the timers and events, make other fun ways to actually obtain things in the game.

As it stands event farming is one of the best things you can do for cash in game, so make other activities as beneficial!

You have to remember that events scale based on number of people there, not levels or gear present. Level scaling only works so far.

When we’re down-leveled, we’re considered that level in whatever quality gear we have. It also seems to ignore traits. That means Wurm is being stomped by 16s in Exotic gear (impossible to get as a real 16), with extra traits.

This posses a problem on the dev side. Can they see the true levels of people there and what gear they have to compensate? Shall they just assume that they’re all 80s in full Exotics (and Ascended)? Somewhere in between?

But wait, there’s more! Don’t forget server capacity and end-user systems. Claw of Jormag (Jojo!) becomes a lag fest. The boss dies “quicker” because it’s so lagged it doesn’t cycle properly. People can get less credit because they’re so lagged they can’t get damage skills off, or spend time dead due to heals not working.

Should they have foreseen this with their “everyone, everywhere” mindset? Sure. Will it get “fixed”? Possibly, they’ve already stated several changes coming. It just takes time. I’ll give them a little slack for trying this scheme out. Don’t know many games that try to let you replay lower level areas and still hold a challenge and worthwhile reward.

All I gotta say is, this game as a lot of pick up raiders aka 70+ gathering to do an event. They need to start making some open world raids that actually require teamwork/coordination that is scaleable for 70+, not just zerg over the event and done.

I swear if they had an event where 4 people had to stand in different spots far away from the boss, the event would never be over. All people do is zerg over things.

PvP zergfest.
WvW zergfest.
PvE mega bosses zergfest.

GW2 in general, zergfest.

Scaling up for a large zerg of 70 people will just make it take forever to kill the boss. Nothing changes, it doesn’t get more fun, the chance of not being successful does not go down, all it means is you have to res a few more people and that its going to take longer.

The issue that needs fixing is why people have to zerg up for Maw and other events in the first place.

I think it is odd that something like Jormag or Golem die faster with fewer people than when there are a whole lot of them.

Did golem with 2 other people and it went down faster than with the normal number that show up when I’m there which is usually 10 to 15 typically.

Did Jormag with at least half of the numbers that normall show up and it went down much faster than with the normal numbers. Maw could us a few more hit points so that a player that forgot to grab their ranged from the bank has a chance to also help with the 3 portals and still run back fast enough to get a few hits on the boss to get chest credit. Doesn’t need to be much, it is a low level boss after all, just enought to allow players to run from portals to the boss.

Wurm does need to be fixed so that it doesn’t take any damage until it has fully spawned.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ll be going through most of these in 2013 and looking at making them more fun and exciting encounters that better scale to support the huge armies of people who mob them.

And of course, we’re also looking into ways to make it so you can see more of those huge mobs of people as well.

Edited to add: This is a great place to throw out your ideas of what you’d like to see any of them do encounter wise to make them more exciting.

How many players in these huge mobs of people at meta events are bots?

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ll be going through most of these in 2013 and looking at making them more fun and exciting encounters that better scale to support the huge armies of people who mob them.

And of course, we’re also looking into ways to make it so you can see more of those huge mobs of people as well.

Edited to add: This is a great place to throw out your ideas of what you’d like to see any of them do encounter wise to make them more exciting.

There should be an algorithm that should be able to detect player density. And this algorithm should let the boss place AoE attacks on said areas.

This should discourage players from clumping in one “safe” spot and encourage more movement, leading to less dull and more engaging fights.

Well, the bosses are pretty impressive; but their behaviour is too predictable. So if it were possible, I’d love for these bosses to become more dynamic.

At present time people just kill bosses by attacking its foot from a safe spot and such (death by pedicure?); but wouldn’t it be more fun if the bosses were actually more aware of their surroundings and act accordingly?

For example:

• Boss snatches a player in its claw, squeezes the life from it and flings him away.
• Boss chomps down on a player and flings player away (see: Skyrim Dragon kill move)
• Boss locates a group of players and swats them like flies with his claw/foot.
• Boss focuses on a random group of players and breathes deadly stuff in their direction.
• Boss (Dragon) flies up into the air and does a strafing attack while breathing fire (Skyrim Dragon/Onyxia style)
• Boss does a Chuck Norris by roundhouse kicking with its tail; flinging players all over the place.
• Bosses don’t just stand in one spot, but are mobile and can move around a specific area.
• Shatterer breathes in random areas, encasing any players there into crystal (which slowly damages them and requires others to break the crystals)

Just a few quick suggestions off the top of my head to basically make all boss encounters more unpredictable, dynamic and interesting; instead of static fights where people just attack its foot and afk until the chest pops up.

Teq could actually get some tweaks to make it much better

1) have players run crystals from the lab to charge the laser
2) leave a poison field around teq that goes up to the bone walls which will prevent players from directly attacking the boss unless the mega laser takes it out
3) teq’s bone walls reflect projectiles requiring melee to take them down
4) the turrets are the primary way to damage teq during the fight, so keeping them operational would be good
5) event fails if mega laser is destroyed <- event needs a failure condition
6) Teq sends vet level enemies to take out the left and right turret banks
7) make a cool flying attack from teq for him to target either the left or right turret banks, with npc verbal warning to get out of the area before it hits – down all targets hit
8) disable close waypoint
9) careful with scaling – as player count wont make teq easier the npc waves he sends should scale in size and veterancy but the hp of teq can stay roughly the same. Alternatively let teq’s hp scale but make each turret attack take off a percentage of his health (like .2% for regular turrets and 10% for the ML shot)

first of all: the bossfights are a complete lagfest. Just saying. 1-5 fps destroys any chance to survive a cool mechanic. There is no more culling in WvW which is great, but I have the feeling that fps went down quite a bit – and I’m now playing with lowest models. Highest visibility because I play without nameplates. I hate those red letters. Perhaps it’s my own fault then.

So without culling in PvE I’m pretty sure fps will go down even more… so I’d say: fix this first. You need a fluent experience in order to have people dodging attacks.

I think the most important part: Make the battle unforgiving hard and able to be failed. Events do fail and it’s not that bad when they do… they sometimes have decent follow-up events. Those bosses need this too. There needs to be some tension, and players should feel that something is going horribly wrong. I loved the last Karka-Event… that battle was so intense and epic, learn from it. Without the massive lag that battle would be unforgotten in my book. (it actually is unforgotten, but for other reasons).

Draygo.9473:

8) disable close waypoint

yes please! It’s like graveyard-rushes in dungeons at the moment. It was a problem there and Anet fixed it. It is a problem here too. The boss can’t win, because we can’t die.

I’d like to just point out that there may be a need to take a look at what is required to get credit for events such as the mega boss events. I say this because earlier today I somehow managed to get credit for an event (Tequatl the sunless) just because I was afk in the area. I was waiting for it to spawn and had tabbed out of the game, and while I was, the event had apparently spawned and finished before I tabbed back to the game. Apparently my pet (I was on my ranger) did enough damage to enemies that had spawned in the area before I got killed to get me a bronze metal for the event and credit for the chest…

actually: why is the medal-system like this

You hit any mob during the event 1 times = bronze
You hit any mob during the event 2 times = silver
You hit any mob during the event 3 times = gold

…at least it feels that way. A game where you can’t be bad is not a good game. Such game might cater to the people who farm stuff 24/7 and they will be angry if anything hinders der farming-rate, but… this can’t be good for the game

I honestly believe that farming stuff (as it is implemented at the moment) is bad for the game because a lot of people find it more important to get their legendary than to have fun encounters.

Mega-Bosses should be more challenging but not in a way that is ridiculous but in a way that is more fun.

Example: Tequatl comes down and attacks. X amount of players should be responsible for cutting off its tail so it doesn’t fly any more.

More things like minor events popping up while this huge boss event is going on can be done to…like if minions were introduced..your responsible to kill x minions or they aoe fear everyone. These minor events can be randomized with each player so not everyone is attacking Tequatl but is still contributing greatly. Completing a minor events contributes to increased rewards from chest ect ect.

I feel like more stuff can be added to make mega bosses events to be more fun…thing is with the amount of players popping up you can NEVER achieve that sense of individual contribution. That rewarding feeling that you actually made a difference.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ll be going through most of these in 2013 and looking at making them more fun and exciting encounters that better scale to support the huge armies of people who mob them.

And of course, we’re also looking into ways to make it so you can see more of those huge mobs of people as well.

Edited to add: This is a great place to throw out your ideas of what you’d like to see any of them do encounter wise to make them more exciting.

Wouldn’t it be better to try and get these “huge armies” of people to do other things instead of just zerging the few big events. I would personally like to see people doing something other than this. Perhaps make the little escort quest(all others too) actually appealing to people. As it stands, I’m unsure where everyone is when not participating in these big events.

You know, there is one attack that I remember seeing some early Beta videos where the Shadow Behemoth uses a special skill where he reaches into the ground beneath him and spawns a vortex of death that basically resulted in a wipe for most of the players present at the event who grouped up. What happened to that? I’ve never seen it used so I assume it was removed. I asked some players at the event one time if they even remember that skill and someone blurted out that it was likely removed because players didn’t like dying. It did remind me that threat of failure plays into my personal enjoyment of a world boss. Let’s not forget how popular the Temple of Grenth boss became after the recent changes to add challenge. Marcus suggested that these events be unforgiving, and on that note, I would just say that before your suggestion is taken, consider how attendance will be affected.

As for what to add to bosses and these events? Personality. Shadow Behemoth I think is a special event for me, coming from GW1 and being at least a little familiar with the lore. Right now, I feel he is only connected to the underworld lore by a small thread. Can you add, without getting too intense in the art department, some environment effects or something that show that he is a minion of the underworld a bit more? Like if he hits a group of people with an attack, that he transports you to a instanced version of the same map but players are shadow versions of themselves that the group has to fight in the underworld to get back to the real world? I’m just remembering the fight with Shiro at the end of Factions and felt that was a bit of beautiful storytelling through combat when you are removed from your party and banished to the ghost realm.

Ok, maybe that is pretty intense in the art department, but I would love some cinematic combat of that nature. Just…..keep up with the storytelling through combat and remind us of who the enemy is. Like, that fight with Claw of Jormag should totally have some draconic whispers of Jormag’s icy voice in your speakers somewhere. Some people are just calling the Claw outright Jormag and that ain’t right. Remind us who the real boss is without having him show up. Get on it Colin and team.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Draygo.9473:

8) disable close waypoint

yes please! It’s like graveyard-rushes in dungeons at the moment. It was a problem there and Anet fixed it. It is a problem here too. The boss can’t win, because we can’t die.

Other than a few Orr temple events, I just don’t see any other world boss requiring this.

They are all easy once the mechanics are figured out.

The boss can’t win because we can stand in a spot and not get hit by anything it does, and in most cases, there are so many around to get you up anyway it doesn’t really matter.

Rather than having many of these encounters on an arbitrary timer, why not make a decent chain of dynamic events that has to be completed before the boss appears? The minimum time needed to complete the events would have to be set so that the boss couldn’t appear more frequently than what is healthy for the game. However, it would be more fun if one knew it was always possible to work towards getting the encounter going. This would also eliminate timer hopping between zones, and encourage people to work together to get fights going. Once a boss is down, the first event in the chain goes back up.

This could take advantage of the whole map. There could be variations in some of the events from encounter to encounter, or there could be multiple chains going that eventually converged on the boss. There’s tons of possibilities to make this awesome.

As for the bosses themselves, some good suggestions have already been made, but anything that creates a little variation would be welcome. There are rarely any doubts about the outcome as the fight progresses for many of the bosses. It’s just the same stuff on repeat. One of the penchants of PC gaming is decision making, and there isn’t much of that here.

Colin, thanks for addressing some issues with these bosses.
Would you please have a look into the reward system as well? It’s not about “better” loot or whatever, it is about a BUG: people do not get the chests (bonus and regular chests) from the bosses although they obviously (?) qualified by receiving the gold medal.
At this very moment there is no communication from anet regarding this massive and game breaking issue.
You can have a look at that for example here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/World-Boss-Bonus-Chests-Not-Always-Appearing/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/World-Boss-Chests-Not-Appearing/first#post1885151
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Fire-Ele-bugged-didn-t-receive-chest-or-bonus/first#post1867808
etc.

This is a very crucial point for having exciting events with these world bosses!

—

I think a better scaling will do fine for the moment whilst you can work on improvements for more exciting behaviour of these world bosses.
In my opinion it is enormously important that they work as they already should (e.g. the jungle worm cannot be killed before he spawns with its life bar; behemoth cannot get that often bugged; the chests have to work; etc.) and scale better to a higher amount of players (again jungle worm, maw, etc.).

Thanks for all your efforts! <3

Mini dragons that fly in and hover and attack players. Need to be ranged and have enough health to be formidable but not devastating. Should be at all dragon fights, scaled to players ie 1 mini dragon for a few people 2 for medium etc. Each with interesting skills (not 1 shotting skills..).

Maw: The shaman chief should call a dragon that fly’s in and gusts-knocks back everyone X amount of meters and fly’s away.

Dome champ should have something added since it has no chest. Not sure what here..

SB needs something, perhaps a wave attack that pushes back the entire crowd or knocks down. Swamp forms a giant tidal wave and swoosh, everyone has to run back in and keep attacking :P It should also probably cause a small amount of poison just for affect.

Most zones need a random named champion who just wanders around to random paths. This would create a dynamic boss event at anytime and it could be different named ones, even incorporate story to them. Maybe drop a chest (no bonus), or just special named items that are “cool” but not epic. Bosses who are fun for the sake of being fun. But might wanna make most of them non aggro, as to not kill poor newbies in areas.

Most importantly, bosses who show data of being highly mobbed seriously need at very least more HP. It is a simple and not complex fix, but good until better adjustments can be made. Some people can barely get hits in before some of these die.

Anywho, those are my ideas I thought up in 5 minutes :P

My wishlist would be:

- Make battles more fierce – bosses’ attacks should be more dynamic, faster, harder, more epic – Shatterer’s breath attack should be devastating, Tequatl should massacre all when he lifts up, Claw should charge or jump on us.
- Battles SHOULD NOT look like now – everyone pew-pew from one location. Some skill MUST be required to defeat bosses – make us divide to accomplish different tasks in order to defeat boss –
one party must hold off army of mobs while others concentrate on holding locations and the last must attack boss so he don’t reset locations OR
randomly spawned portals which must be entered to perform some additional tasks – party enter some other domain to weaken boss by destroying his source of power. If task isn’t accomplished in
certain amount of time – boss regenerates some health.
- Make bosses be able to MOVE! Or at least spawn at different locations.
- If fights are taking too long – spawn ADDITIONAL mini-bosses to penalise us!
- If you are defeated by boss – you can only be resurrected by players – no WP spawning!
- Attacking Claw in first phase is boring – he should do different things when he lands.
- Mobs should rush to help their master! Spawn some to attack NPC but also spawn lof of them to attack us!
- Give us more toys to battle – Charzookas at Claw’s battle are ok but sometimes it should be required to plant explosives near Ice Wall – where, of course, mobs spawn! (similar to Dredge Fractal )
- Make one or two more
- All in all make bosses attacks matter – when Teq lifts up I always though that he just wants to look at us and he wonders “How da kitten can I defeat them all when I just randomly put AOE here and there” For few first battles it seemed that he indeed just goes up and then lands

Here is that attack that I mentioned that I haven’t seen the SB use anymore. He actually uses it several times during the fight and it catches a number of people. I’m not sure how effective it would be today but it definitely serves as a get outta dodge attack. It does high damage pretty quick. (Attack is at 4:50 in the video and some other times too because he doesn’t actually get killed in under 30 seconds)

make them more puzzle like, in that you need to coordinate multiple areas to make it work. for example, tequatl’s megalaser should be critical to taking it down, rather than optional. on a side note, making siege deal more dps than any player can makes more sense, though that could limit player participation. the solution would be making those players engage the fight in some other way.

but the important part is to make the battle feel challenging (make it last longer than a minute or two, especially against dragon CHAMPIONS), engaging (various attacks and movement), varied (hence multiple tasks instead of DPSing), and most important of all, give them a fail state. give us the possibility of defeat, and a consequence to it (for example, having more branded enemy density inside the brand, and some branded escaping the limits of the brand)

Maybe if the timers for the low level bosses like the maw, worm and behemoth were set to coincide it might decrease the chances of these events being zerged.

And more level 80 areas and/or events please.

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’ll be going through most of these in 2013 and looking at making them more fun and exciting encounters that better scale to support the huge armies of people who mob them.

And of course, we’re also looking into ways to make it so you can see more of those huge mobs of people as well.

Edited to add: This is a great place to throw out your ideas of what you’d like to see any of them do encounter wise to make them more exciting.

Add mechanics like you did for the guild bounties.

oh, and this is always worth bringing back, here’s how zhaitan should’ve been (maybe some insight for the next elder dragons?)

the video is part 1 of 3, the 3 parts count for 30 minutes. here are a few things you notice:

-the boat they’re on and the enemy (which, coincidentally, is also labeled an elder dragon) both clearly feel like they’re moving, and the enemy often leaves player reach to attack from another direction, creating dynamism to the enemy behavior.

-the players must grab ammo from supply areas and take it to turrets, where they then manually aim (like GW2 trebs) and fire. different areas deal more or less damage, and cannon ammo is harder to carry (one at a time, and it slows you down, like a GW2 bundle) but deals far more damage than arrows (which are a trophy with a limited stack that gets consumed with each use)

-if well timed, the players can latch the enemy onto the boat (remember those tether beams zhaitan was attacked with?), which allows them to jump onto the enemy’s back to attack very specific weak points that deal a lot of damage, but “expire” after a certain threshold (one of the main complaints about the zhaitan fight was the lack of direct contact between the players and the foe). the players can even mine for rare minerals there (ori farming on kralk’s back is one way to make a story dungeon replayable :P). this weapon, of course, has a long cooldown.

- minions are thrown onto the boat, as well as AoE attacks. ANet covered that part, props to them.

- you CAN fall off, though that doesn’t kill you, only puts you out of combat temporarily as you climb back to the boat through the safety rope

-if the players have good timing, they can stun the enemy with a loud noise by a gong (which can be easily replaced by something more lore-friendly. sound-based stuns are, after all, the current threat in flame and frost). this weapon, obviously, has a long cooldown.

-if the players have EXCELLENT timing, they have two opportunities (one at the second third of the battle, the other near the end) to use a weapon that deals devastating damage, which is not mandatory to kill the enemy, but speeds up the process considerably. a similar weapon was used against zhaitan in a very similar way, except it was played out during a cutscene.

-at the final third of the battle, the enemy is on its last legs, and the moving battle stops, being replaced with something that resembles a lot the current structure of the dragon champion fights, except it’s incredibly risky to melee, and the turrets are still very much viable damage outputs. the gong and the “mega weapon” from the previous points are still usable here.

- the soundtrack changes accordingly to the situation of the battle. a nice touch that gives the last stretch that extra sense of epicness.

.

.

there you go, my very long, but hopefully worth reading post, with some insight on various different things that can be done.

TL;DR OF THE PREVIOUS POST:

-siege turrets require constant flow of ammo, making for player movement and rotation on them, and turret damage > player damage

-ability to use special siege (with long cooldowns) to stun and deal massive damage to large enemies, as well as to disable the enemy in some way to allow players to approach it directly to attack weak points. special siege relies on timing

- variety of attacks and animations, and a sense of mobility (even if false) on the enemy’s part, add to the dynamism of a battle.

- make the attacks and minions threatening, though not necessarily damage sponges

-battle evolves and changes as the enemy takes damage

make it require ele with swirling wind or something unique that a big group should have anyway

@ BrunoBRS.5178 that was a fun fight sadly you had to be online to even do it.

The thing is Anet is going back to “fix” the dungeons it seems like dungeons where rushed so they where made simple. Its funny though when Anet fixes these ppl will cry that they are too hard as seen with AC lol i love the forum community.

As for world bosses you must deal with well over 50 ppl in one sport with out lagging out every one. There just a limitation what the mob can do or it will kick every one from that zone.

Thread is long, so I didn’t read it. An idea I’ve always thought would be good is for a boss to unlock specific tiers of different attacks depending on the amount of people fighting it, rather than just buffing up its stats.

Well for starters a bit of mobility would be nice.

At least for the dragons there should be some sort of failure condition with consequences.

A much better dragon fight.
http://youtu.be/W0CyBlirYQ8
There are many things wrong with that game but the fights aren’t one of them.

Scaling shouldn’t simply about bigger numbers(more damage, more health, increased level of minion …). Something more logical would be nice.

This would be for one or more of the dragons.
Only a couple of enemies → attack mainly with claws
Enemies mostly in front → breath attack
Surrounded by enemies → tail swipe or that spinning attack drakes like to use
Many enemies clustered together → fly up and stomp on them
They should have some moves where they “throw their weight around”.

Constant CC might add challenge but doesn’t really make for a fun or interesting experience.

There are already more interesting fights in the game such as Vexa.

The dragons are just not lively enough for what they are supposed to be.

Straight up buffing bosses would be a let down. They should be focusing on the setup and how do they “divide and conquer players.”

What I’ve always imagined larger fights to look like (especially after watching that video they put out before launch about Orr), would instead of having just one orange event circle pop for the event, you also have like 4-5 event circles pop up simultaneously with and intersecting the perimeter of the main event that effect the main event in some major way if not dealt with suitably. The more people there are the more sub-events there are (but all tie in the to main event, so that you get credit for the overall event when doing these sub events).

The dragons could use a reworking too. The dragons need to have a breathe attack that actually is a “get the heck out of the way” move for players; move it or lose it. Then they also should swipe with their claws a bit, and have the fight go on more than off to the side where you can’t really be hit. Players should also be on siege to take this thing down, as well as having players that are attacking the dragon directly dodging and moving more. Dragons just don’t feel that active of an event, currently it’s an “oh, this dragons up; get your rare for pretty much just standing there!”

Certain events need to become less of a “If you die, waypoint and run back!” kind of thing, and have the mechanics reworked a bit so that they are still as tough as they can be, but also allow more coordination and reaction from players. We just did Balthazar as a guild the other day and it was a ton of fun; we announced it in Lions Arch and a whole bunch of people came (hey, it’s balthazar lol) and starting from Fort Trinity working our way to the temple actually felt like we were launching a campaign against it and Orr. The one thing that bothered me though, is that still ended up being one of those “waypoint and run back” deals for many players (most people don’t res in temple events, because it often just causes the event to fall apart for one reason or another; especially when theres a timer).

Also, going off that last comment; long campaign chains would be cool. In order to get full “gold rating” credit participation from a staging area all the way to the end would make some of these events (especially in Orr), with the proper notification in game to players on the map, a lot more epic.

The DE’s in game provide a nice base to work off of in my opinion, but definitely should be worked on to maximize their potential.

EDIT:

Well for starters a bit of mobility would be nice.

At least for the dragons there should be some sort of failure condition with consequences.

A much better dragon fight.
http://youtu.be/W0CyBlirYQ8
There are many things wrong with that game but the fights aren’t one of them.

Hell yes, I loved Vindictus. I can’t play hammer classes in other games now because of that lol. The boss raids were just so epic in that game GO FAIRYTAIL WEST! (even though nexon derped and erased all the guilds because they decided they wanted to … oh never mind)

Well the vast majority of these bosses are absolutely huge. AoE density and positioning is generally nonexistant in these fights wheras it should be the primary concern. if you’re standing right next to a foot, that should be a very dangerous position, and that dragon should choose as part of its attacks to kick/tailwhip clusters of players around its vital spots at random intervals and well as attempt and occasional “field clear” every now and then. Think of a massive 360 tail whip or sustained breath attack that works a lot like the jade maw final attack, only in stead of hitting everyone simultaneously it actually cruises around the arena, and it’s so big you can see it coming without relying on grounded AoE circles.

Really, if each boss had a selection of anti-cluster mechanics and the ability to incapacitate players less predictably by grabbing, crystals, etc the fights would be a lot more dynamic. Currently the bosses have some interesting mechanics, but because their attack patterns are so narrow or random they’re largely wasted. In addition the AoE fields from boss attacks should really be widened by at least 300% and their warning time increased maybe 50% This prevents players from camping a spot and just dodging occasionally and actually forces players to pay attention to the fight and move around the battlefield. Melee usually has multiple “ground” targets so they’ve got the ability to move without being locked out of DPS (just hit another leg) and ranged usually has a good pick of targets as well.

In addition, I feel like the majority of these bosses should absolutely come with scaling adds like we’re seeing in the updated scaling events. Roaming champs and veterans in the mix would really help to keep people on their toes.

Jski.6180:

@ BrunoBRS.5178 that was a fun fight sadly you had to be online to even do it.

The thing is Anet is going back to “fix” the dungeons it seems like dungeons where rushed so they where made simple. Its funny though when Anet fixes these ppl will cry that they are too hard as seen with AC lol i love the forum community.

As for world bosses you must deal with well over 50 ppl in one sport with out lagging out every one. There just a limitation what the mob can do or it will kick every one from that zone.

not on Tri Ultimate you don’t but GW2 is always online, and this fight is more fun with groups anyway, plus the mechanics are the point of the discussion. i feel like this kind of “siege over blade, rotate players controlling the siege by demanding ammo” system would make the dragon fights much more interesting. you need to take down dragons with heavy artillery, not slashing their toenails.

and if they are or not going to revisit all dungeons is beyond the point, we need to suggest what we’d like to see in those possible improvements.

the “too hard” comments are just like early GW2, people were astounded by dungeons and thought AC was nigh impossible. get used to them and they become easier. of course, the new AC has some bugs that make it a bit hard to play certain paths >.>

Colin what happened to the massive events that were zone wide like the closing events of the beta weekend? I’m thinking similar to beta weekend 2 with the shatterer flying across the ashford plains, those were good events for like boss fights i think

BrunoBRS.5178:

Jski.6180:

@ BrunoBRS.5178 that was a fun fight sadly you had to be online to even do it.

The thing is Anet is going back to “fix” the dungeons it seems like dungeons where rushed so they where made simple. Its funny though when Anet fixes these ppl will cry that they are too hard as seen with AC lol i love the forum community.

As for world bosses you must deal with well over 50 ppl in one sport with out lagging out every one. There just a limitation what the mob can do or it will kick every one from that zone.

not on Tri Ultimate you don’t but GW2 is always online, and this fight is more fun with groups anyway, plus the mechanics are the point of the discussion. i feel like this kind of “siege over blade, rotate players controlling the siege by demanding ammo” system would make the dragon fights much more interesting. you need to take down dragons with heavy artillery, not slashing their toenails.

and if they are or not going to revisit all dungeons is beyond the point, we need to suggest what we’d like to see in those possible improvements.

the “too hard” comments are just like early GW2, people were astounded by dungeons and thought AC was nigh impossible. get used to them and they become easier. of course, the new AC has some bugs that make it a bit hard to play certain paths >.>

I though that one fight for MH3 for the wii you had it have it online to play it i guess i was wrong.

As for a suggestion hmmm i would like to see a pre-event mid boss fight such as you must do something to let the fight keep going and if you cant in a set time you fail the event. I do not like when ppl cant get claim but i also do not like ppl when they just run in the very last part for rewards only. Maybe have complex events much like your ammo gathering to fire the canons to make the mob hit able. A counter fly that you need for it to go off to keep the mob from running away. At the same time make the mobs take a great deal less dmg when they become air born well for the ones that do fly during the fight. That and blow back that make ppl get out of the way when the dragon flap there wings.

I guess you could adapted it on the mob: the worm will go underground, the SB will go into a “mist” like form, maw will freeze ppl who do not keep moving and or near fires of some type, the FE will have high toxins on ppl who can get off the low part of the fight and fire to the ones who ranges attk during the “the ground is lava” effect, the golem a use for its warp gate to move ppl into its ranges attk or pull ppl into his ground aoe, the centor i only done this fight once and it was fun i am not sure what to do with it.

Just random ideas but i am fearful that they will prolong the fights too much or make the events too laggly and taxing for pc that are just below the min requirements for the game.

The wurm is a special case in that it can (tho fixed in the upcoming patch) be damaged by AOE before it is fully spawned. That is why you see meteor showers and such being dropped on its spawn location by those in the know.

On the topic of scaling caps, i wonder if they are in place because events and such seems to scale basted on people present even when not actively engaged. Meaning that if you have 20 people in a area, but maybe only 1 or 2 actively engage a event, it may still scale to require all 20 to complete.

a suggestion I posted a while ago:

What I think about Boss-Fights with big crowds of people: make content in those battles for everyone. The idea would be that the pro-players play alongside not-experienced players at the same time. Each of those groups has a different task to fulfil in order to kill the boss.

for example the possible content for a dragon-fight:

-) very easy: an explosion destroyed the supply-tanks and ammunition for the heavy weaponry is spread all over the battleground. Return those to the mortars.

-) easy: use the mortars and shoot the boss + defending the mortars from enemies

-) medium: …

-) hard: …

-) very hard: get up close. This part is pretty unvorgiving. People have to learn the animation-patterns of the boss in order to survive the attacks. Otherwise they die. It won’t be possible to get close and survive without having REALLY good movement.

now this sounds not new, but that’s not all. The new thing would be: the boss can only die when each of those steps is done with success. I’d describe it this way: the Boss has a health bar for each of those steps.

-) very-easy healthbar

-) easy healthbar

-) medium healthbar

-) hard healthbar

-) very hard healthbar – for the pro-players

so 5 seperate healthbars

This means: a Boss can’t be defeated only the easy-way (shooting mortars in this example). The easy-crowd does no damage anymore, when their bar is empty. Instead it regenerates slowly. The really good team which goes toe-to-toe with the dragon has to be successful too. The way it is now there is not really a very hard way, you can stand next to the dragon and nothing happens most of the time. I stood in front of the Shatterer and he ignored me. The closer you are to a dragon, the more dangerous it should be. Take the champions in the open world. Each of those is more dangerous than a dragon currently. This shouldn’t be imho.

more advanced bosses would additionaly have the players to bring all health-bars to 25% in the same minute, else certain health-bars would regenerate.

So people can choose which health bar they want to drain. They can try the close combat route – if that’s too hard and they constantly get killed, they can help in those easier routes. The unexperienced players would cheer for the elite-group. And the pro-players would need the less experienced players too, so that the battle wouldn’t last forever.

The more you participate on a specific loot-bar, the more loot you’d get. Not better loot, but more of it. Doing the hardest part with gold would also be a good choice for cosmetic rewards (like a piece of armor made of dragonscales for example). So in the end every player would get exotics, the easy-route 1, the hard-route 2, the very hard route 2+cosmetic.