Guild Wars 2

A lot of people are freaking out over this, but I haven’t seen any attempts to even get an answer.

Many skills that use teleporting to move the character will not activate if the target is not in range (probably the ones that require target or can deal damage while moving you).

This change that has been leaked to be coming up in the next patch, and a lot of people I know are freaking about it.

Will it just simply say we can’t do it if there is no pathing, or it will still function normally?

This could either be a huge buff or a huge nerf to many teleporting skills.

A huge buff, as in, there are many times where you try to teleport to something but you end up teleporting in place and getting nowhere, and your skill would go on CD. With this change, will it prevent you from using the skill in the first place, and thus prevent a wasted cooldown?

Or,

A huge nerf, as in, you must be in range of the target as well, which means many gap closers can no longer work out of range. This would mean you can’t use it how it is currently used.

Currently most skills will teleport you on a valid path as close to the target possible using the range available.

Based on translations and stuff, I strongly believe its the former that will happen, as it could be quite gimmicky and frustrating to waste a skill without even knowing it will work and such a change was necessary to ensure a less frustrating experience.

Which is it? Or is it neither?

They’re not going to comment on leaked patch notes. They were removed from the Chinese site after being put up for a reason, because they’re not supposed to be known yet.

Just wait until they go live so you can see for yourself, I guess.

Yeah. This is going to be really bad, particularly for catching foes when chasing or fleeing from foes in WvW. It’s a huge nerf for some professions — ones that don’t have much mobility. But Anet doesn’t develop for WvW in mind so, not so surprising.

This change makes me so frustrated. Chaining teleports to close large gaps is so much fun. This is really going to cause me to rethink my play style. Now, every warrior / ele will bring out their greatsword and disappear off into the sunset.

Also, I really wish Anet would comment on why they feel this change is necessary. There are classes with broken traits, cele in pvp, etc etc. I never heard anyone whine about teleports.

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

Those classes which have mobility have it for a reason. So you want to strip thieves and ele´s mobility but don´t compensate them? I can understand you´d want to cut some of the warrior’s mobility since it has too much for it’s tankiness, immunities and general damage output, but ele at least has to actively maintain their damage from stacking might while being tanky, and thieves are usually swuishy. They have to be mobile. Classes like Mesmer, Guardian and Necromancer are not as mobile outfight and to some extend infight because they´re designed to be strong where they are, not where they want to go. Imagine a fully shrouded necromancer moving around as fast as a thief – and on the opposite side, when a thief can´t get away from a necro, something clearly goes wrong mechanic-wise. These are just examples though and there are outliers for sure – Warrior and Engineer being too mobile while being too dangerous and tanky alltogether, counting in Eles here to some extend because they can achieve the same by active play, but generally the balancing regarding mobility is one of the most balanced aspects about the game in my opinion.

That said, we have to wait and see how that works out and how exactly the change will affect general teleportation (shadowstepping). Seeing as a single pebble on the road can ruin your shadowstep because the AI is too narrowly programmed to shadowstep around it (same goes for Guardians YouShallNotPass- line on staff and Necro’s fear wall – if you shadowstep to your foe when they are several units behind it, you´ll still get caught), i´m rather worried. I´m by no means a programmer, but they should have made all shadowstep abilities a real teleport and remap the pathing grid by defining from which place you are allowed to go to which place to prevent teleporting to inaccessible places. Sounds like a lot of work to do and might even be highly inefficient resource-wise, but for the player this would be the better way. Best example is this: Would be nice to have the Shadow Trap actually work like it should seeing that i already have to reach the location to place it – why that thing is not just a plain teleport exceeds my imagination.

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

On the ranger forum, you keep complaining that rangers and engies 1500 range is impossible to gap, and here you complain that it’s too easy to close gaps for three non-ranger non-engie professions?

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

The classes you mentioned are suppose to have that mobility. I always make fun of nike warriors in wvw but it would kinda suck is they didnt have that. I’m affraid that mesmer will get hurt more with these new changes.

DarkSyze.8627:

…

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

Where did you get that from? All I could read from the patchnotes was that teleporting is going to be fixed.

Currently teleporting (shadowsteps from thief, ele flash, etc) is undenieably broken. You target an area where you can walk up to straight away, the circle shows green and instead of teleporting there, you just teleport to where you stood before and the skill goes on cd.

As I understood the patch-notes this is going to be fixed. How the fix is going to look (either turning the circle red instad of green or making the teleport even though there’s a small step in between) remains to be seen. Hopefully the fix will be a bit of both: Making teleports to all locations where you can just walk up to possible and turning the circle red on anything where you can’t go.

BunjiKugashira.9754:

DarkSyze.8627:

…

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

Where did you get that from? All I could read from the patchnotes was that teleporting is going to be fixed.

Currently teleporting (shadowsteps from thief, ele flash, etc) is undenieably broken. You target an area where you can walk up to straight away, the circle shows green and instead of teleporting there, you just teleport to where you stood before and the skill goes on cd.

As I understood the patch-notes this is going to be fixed. How the fix is going to look (either turning the circle red instad of green or making the teleport even though there’s a small step in between) remains to be seen. Hopefully the fix will be a bit of both: Making teleports to all locations where you can just walk up to possible and turning the circle red on anything where you can’t go.

I’m hoping it just doesn’t trigger. (If they haven’t fixed it to work flawlessly every time.)
I, and many others, use fast targeting. Even though showing the target as red if the teleport is going to fail would be an improvement, it would not be a solution.

cafard.8953:

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

On the ranger forum, you keep complaining that rangers and engies 1500 range is impossible to gap, and here you complain that it’s too easy to close gaps for three non-ranger non-engie professions?

please quote my exact word “that it’s too easy to close gaps for three non-ranger non-engie professions?” because i want to see evidence where i say that? I did not mention ranger mobility with the other class; you should be happy

aspirine.6852:

DarkSyze.8627:

what frustrate me is how this is the first mmo i ever play in my life where mobility is extreme. I mean, this is an mmo, no fps game. A thief profession, A Elemental Profession and A Warrior Profession having this extreme mobility in a mmo-un heard of in mmo history.

Well good news is, Arena net is make serious change to this because it is rapidly destroying fun and destroying challenge in this game and is fault for pushing many player out to find fun somewhere else. Fun keep player motivated an in return; they will invest more for challenge content and fun content. Player Investment is important for Arena net growth and prosperity.

I expect thief, ele and warrior extreme mobility to be nerf by 40%-55%. Again this is a mmo-challenge and fun: not a fps game or not a racing game.

I hope this rumor patch is true because us player is very frustrated of play hide and seek with these class.

The classes you mentioned are suppose to have that mobility. I always make fun of nike warriors in wvw but it would kinda suck is they didnt have that. I’m affraid that mesmer will get hurt more with these new changes.

I want evidence where these class are suppose to do that. Just because they use d/d build and wear light-medium armor do not make them suppose to have extreme mobility. What armor do necromancer wear? What armor do warrior wear? Necromancer wear light armor and Warrior wear heavy armor, so who suppose to have extreme mobility? I understand Arena net didn’t design this game to have trinity but still; a warrior will always be a warrior no matter what, so it mean, they will always be a slow-medium mobility class to make it balance and challenge. Arena net tamper it so that is why warrior class is in bad spot. There is reason why thing should be left alone.

Fenda.1398:

Those classes which have mobility have it for a reason. So you want to strip thieves and ele´s mobility but don´t compensate them? I can understand you´d want to cut some of the warrior’s mobility since it has too much for it’s tankiness, immunities and general damage output, but ele at least has to actively maintain their damage from stacking might while being tanky, and thieves are usually swuishy. They have to be mobile. Classes like Mesmer, Guardian and Necromancer are not as mobile outfight and to some extend infight because they´re designed to be strong where they are, not where they want to go. Imagine a fully shrouded necromancer moving around as fast as a thief – and on the opposite side, when a thief can´t get away from a necro, something clearly goes wrong mechanic-wise. These are just examples though and there are outliers for sure – Warrior and Engineer being too mobile while being too dangerous and tanky alltogether, counting in Eles here to some extend because they can achieve the same by active play, but generally the balancing regarding mobility is one of the most balanced aspects about the game in my opinion.

That said, we have to wait and see how that works out and how exactly the change will affect general teleportation (shadowstepping). Seeing as a single pebble on the road can ruin your shadowstep because the AI is too narrowly programmed to shadowstep around it (same goes for Guardians YouShallNotPass- line on staff and Necro’s fear wall – if you shadowstep to your foe when they are several units behind it, you´ll still get caught), i´m rather worried. I´m by no means a programmer, but they should have made all shadowstep abilities a real teleport and remap the pathing grid by defining from which place you are allowed to go to which place to prevent teleporting to inaccessible places. Sounds like a lot of work to do and might even be highly inefficient resource-wise, but for the player this would be the better way. Best example is this: Would be nice to have the Shadow Trap actually work like it should seeing that i already have to reach the location to place it – why that thing is not just a plain teleport exceeds my imagination.

I understand but the problem is, they have too much access to it without risk and consequence. Mobility is very strong so why make mobility easy to use over and over again? It do not make sense! Very Powerful and Extreme should carry high risk and be challenge, Not carry No risk and be Reward without no challenge?

That is why Arena is changing that to make reward be risk and be consequence. Reward= Risk and Consequence

N o Reward= No Risk, No Consequence

Example: Test

Student A study hard with great effort for test; very exhausted with no sleep, a lot practice.
Student B Not study hard without any great effort for test: stay up late drink heavy alcohol and party and play game with friends and strangers before take test,
Test begin—- Who is suppose to pass test? And why? Who deserve not to pass test? And why?

I hope you understand!

So this is basically a nerf to Guardian/Thief sword #2 and … can’t think of anything else. Probably aimed at removing meditation guardians’ mobility.

Leaked Patchnotes – “Many skills that use teleporting to move the character will not activate if the target is not in range”.

What do you guys think?

Well bye then. As someone with 50% of his hours on Thief, the change makes sense, whether it’s a favorable one or not.

Well for some classes it will be a good change since some skills goes on CD if your target is too far away and you “fail” your skill.

People are always leaving after patches because their profession was “nerfed” or because they don’t like a specific change.

Happens in every game. I’m sure the public outcry would be a lot louder if it were actually a problem. Those notes have been around for days now.

Bye, Felicia.

Seriously, though, I rarely play my classes with teleports and such. This won’t affect me at all.

If its true, sure will make catching thief and ele a bit easier. I play both of them but I’d be fine either way, I’m sure we will adapt like we always do.

Oh no, I might not be able to use Blink to move my Mesmer around slightly faster!

Oh no, I can’t teleport cheese in PvP!

…

Nah, don’t care. I main a Guardian and our meditations have always required targeting. No free Blinks and teleports for us.

Welcome to the club. Time to OOC move just like every other class.

And let’s be honest, if a change in a small handful of movement skills is enough for you to quit the game…

Are you thinking this means EVERY teleport skill? Maybe this just means skills like Steal so it won’t go on its short cooldown if there’s no target in range.

What skills do you think this would nerf anyway? I can’t see them touching lightning flash, blink, shadow step or infiltrator’s arrow with this change, since they’re ground targeted anyway. For skills like Steal, this is probably a good QoL change.

Vayne.8563:

People are always leaving after patches because their profession was “nerfed” or because they don’t like a specific change.

People SAY they are leaving. Mostly, it’s hot air. If they were actually so sensitive that a single change to a minor aspect of game play would cause them to leave, they’d have done so a long time ago.

Blair.3796:

Nah, don’t care. I main a Guardian and our meditations have always required targeting. No free Blinks and teleports for us.

As a fellow Guardian I’d just like to point out that the Guardian blinks, as I understand it, WILL be subject to the change in so much as if your target just gets out of range when you hit the button, nothing will happen.

This change seems like a big buff for Warriors. They are already able to get away from a fight irritatingly fast with their greatswords, now there will be less chances to catch up with them.

Esports yo. Who doesn’t like mobility in PvE and WvW? I hardly use thief in PvE, even much less reason to if the above mentioned involves nerf to Infiltrator’s arrow and would just stick to warrior instead.

And who says Guardian dont get “free” blinks, I use sword in PVP now and I dont have to hit a target to teleport 600 units closer.

Vayne.8563:

People are always leaving after patches because their profession was “nerfed” or because they don’t like a specific change.

Happens in every game. I’m sure the public outcry would be a lot louder if it were actually a problem. Those notes have been around for days now.

You read that, right? It was just my opinion. I can quit every game i want if it goes in a way i dont like. And i would leave not because of a nerf, i would leave because the gameplay was funny with those ports, the mobility and the fast gameplay. Because of people like you i will edit the post above. Why? You should discuss the change, not the fact people would leave the game.. sigh

Blair.3796:

Oh no, I might not be able to use Blink to move my Mesmer around slightly faster!

Oh no, I can’t teleport cheese in PvP!

…

Nah, don’t care. I main a Guardian and our meditations have always required targeting. No free Blinks and teleports for us.

Welcome to the club. Time to OOC move just like every other class.

And let’s be honest, if a change in a small handful of movement skills is enough for you to quit the game…

Medi guard will get nerfed. No more using judges intervention while target isn’t in range.

I’ve played a thief for over a year and I didn’t realize Steal’s port worked without a target or a target out of range.

No more medi guard. Thanks Anet. Seriously. No really…the one build I liked running for actual fun in WvW because I didn’t feel like I could never fight someone who decided to run away.

I guess it’ll be more staff/gs healing boon for me on that toon.

Seriously, will this change affect any other class/build as profoundly? How many other target based teleports are there (that are not ground targeted)?

Blair.3796:

Oh no, I might not be able to use Blink to move my Mesmer around slightly faster!

Oh no, I can’t teleport cheese in PvP!

• Blink is a ground target spell. Those won’t activate anyway when your “target” (the location you are aiming your cursor at) is out of range.
• For a slow class like a Mesmer using Blink for more movementspeed out of combat is really useful. Your Swiftness stacking Guardian-Staff is still useful in WvW, a Focus wielding Mesmer (which doesn’t even add to existing swiftness) is a joke. And thanks to all the critters in WvW, Flashing Blade and Judge’s Intervention (don’t forget the Greatsword leap either) make the Guardian still a faster class than the Mesmer is right now.

Nah, don’t care. I main a Guardian and our meditations have always required targeting. No free Blinks and teleports for us.

• Judge’s Intervention and Flashing Blade require “real” targets (other entities) to work. Currently they work even if your foe is out of range, and simply teleport you as far into their direction as they can, which is “abused” (if you want to see it that way – i don’t) regulary by WvW Roamers; same goes for Thieves Infiltrator’s Strike and the signet, or Mesmers Swap (which is practically unusable for mobility) and Phase retreat (although this teleports backwards/away from your target, and can be used without a target).Those are the abilities being nerfed, not mesmer’s Blink.

Welcome to the club. Time to OOC move just like every other class.

• Well, if all classes get the same kind of passive defense and mobility, sure :p

Steal doesn’t work when out of range, apart from certain traits attached to it (Thrill of the crime, mainly). The teleports that now work (meaning: move you for some distance in the chosen general direction) even if the target is out of range are skills like Judge’s Intervention, Infiltrator’s Signet, thief’s sword #2, etc.

I won’t lie, I’m not looking forward to this change. Sword thieves are already rare in PvP and WvW, and confined in one build. This change will affect them most, because it affects their most important skill: Infiltrator’s Strike. Thief is the only profession apart from ranger that had two different builds played in WTS, I’d hate to see one of these builds disappear. Nobody likes to play against the same build every time.

What i think?

Welcome back to earth, how is your journey on mars?

this is actually big nerf for Guardian meditation build. Hoping of some compensations like GS leap having 2000 range and mighty blow range 1600.

So whats left…shouts? spirit weapons? oh god consecrations… LOL

Ragnarox.9601:

this is actually big nerf for Guardian meditation build. Hoping of some compensations like GS leap having 2000 range and mighty blow range 1600.

So whats left…shouts? spirit weapons? oh god consecrations… LOL

Yup, sometimes it seems ANet has no clue what is good on their own game. But hey, if a dev says that a Rapid Fire doenst hit People in Stealth, what should we expect….

Thief and Mesmer dont have mobility skills that requires target,except steal and mesmer short sword skill (which is in this case good,cause we wont be able to fail anymore).Shadowstep does not require target,so range does not matter,seems to me that this changes are good for thiefs/mesmers,dont know why you people complain about.
Perhaps pistol thiefs gonna have some problems,but im d/d so wont affect me.

saalle.4623:

Thief and Mesmer dont have mobility skills that requires target,except steal and mesmer short sword skill (which is in this case good,cause we wont be able to fail anymore).Shadowstep does not require target,so range does not matter,seems to me that this changes are good for thiefs/mesmers,dont know why you people complain about.
Perhaps pistol thiefs gonna have some problems,but im d/d so wont affect me.

We complain because Guardian has no mobility now.

Arrk.4102:

saalle.4623:

Thief and Mesmer dont have mobility skills that requires target,except steal and mesmer short sword skill (which is in this case good,cause we wont be able to fail anymore).Shadowstep does not require target,so range does not matter,seems to me that this changes are good for thiefs/mesmers,dont know why you people complain about.
Perhaps pistol thiefs gonna have some problems,but im d/d so wont affect me.

We complain because Guardian has no mobility now.

Ohh ok then.

the classes that use them will have even less mobility than they already do

anet pls

Because before they had more mobility than intended.

Wanze.8410:

Because before they had more mobility than intended.

If it is true then they are massively under-powered. Think about what thief and mesmer brings to the table besides mobility. If you remove the vertical ports from the thief, you’ll deal more damage and be more mobile with a GS warrior.

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

Arrk.4102:

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

Any links to the patch notes?

Thought so….

saalle.4623:

Thief and Mesmer dont have mobility skills that requires target,except steal and mesmer short sword skill (which is in this case good,cause we wont be able to fail anymore).Shadowstep does not require target,so range does not matter,seems to me that this changes are good for thiefs/mesmers,dont know why you people complain about.
Perhaps pistol thiefs gonna have some problems,but im d/d so wont affect me.

In PvP, S/D thief is gonna turn to kitten because infiltrator’s strike is basically the getaway card if you get kittened by immobilize. But because you (probably) won’t be able to use the skill anymore if you’re not in 600 range, it’s really going to blow because you probably won’t be able to cast it in a LoS position if some ranger starts going pew pew rapid fire on your kitten , or whatever else you’d need an LoS spot for.

Arrk.4102:

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

thats what im saying. im saying if they DO decide to go on with the patch and nerf teles, then at least dont make it completely unusable because that would honestly be ridiculous. the post you replied to was offering an alternative to completely nerfing it

Wanze.8410:

Arrk.4102:

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

Any links to the patch notes?

Thought so….

It ceases to amaze me that someone can so easily just say “leaked patch notes” and everyone suddenly believes it….

Man, someone is getting a good laugh.

Chasing target : he/she is at 2000 range away, gs 3# target is 1600 range away. Oh well time for coffee.

You being chased by 3 ppl: Lock other target at 2000 range, push JI, nothing happens. Write /wave and wait until you die.

Works as intended.

Serophous.9085:

Wanze.8410:

Arrk.4102:

Skyline Crash.6254:

maybe decrease the range when there is no target

for example a guardian’s sword 2 skill. it has a 600 range. lets say when there is no target, it becomes a 300 range. something like that.

but preferably no nerf at all lol..

you can’t teleport at all with no target. With this patch, if you are not in range, WITH target, you will not move at all.

Any links to the patch notes?

Thought so….

It ceases to amaze me that someone can so easily just say “leaked patch notes” and everyone suddenly believes it….

Man, someone is getting a good laugh.

They are not “leaked” they are the one’s the Chinese ANet posted on their own website.

Hmm. I have an 80 thief that I’ve been using quite a bit. Especially in WvW.

The only teleports I use is steal and shadow shot. That’s it. Yet with just those alone I can keep up with a nike warrior.

The biggest problem with this game is the difference of speeds. I think everyone should just have the 25% by default and change the skills, traits, and runes that give 25% to something else. It does nothing except hold back the potential for better build diversity.

Now when it comes to a thief (although not limited to thief), the biggest issue has been stealth. It is OP, it really is. It’s what makes thief OP, and it is what makes Mesmers OP.

The problem is that it also makes a thief playable. A thief’s survivability depends on it. Their shadow trait line (the one that enhances stealth) is also their toughness and healing power line. It pigeon holes thieves into relying on stealth as their defense.

While the items you steal are nice, steal is primarily used for other reasons depending on the traits you take. Deal damage and heal yourself, gain stealth, gain swiftness and fury. Also used as a gap closer. The item itself is just a bonus.

If they are nerfing teleports and leaving stealth, then they are doing it backwards. A thief’s survivability should come from being difficult to catch. Give them better evades and teleports (which can be traited to remove conditions, grand more initiative, remove immobs, etc.) which also break stun. Change the stolen items to be better and the meaning behind using steal in the first place. Get rid of stealth.

For mesmers it should be about misdirection. While thieves move around and are simply hard to hit, mesmers should be about confusing the enemy (I don’t mean the condition). A mesmer produces a clone and instead of continuing to have the mesmer targeted, you have the clone targeted. Reduce the difference between the real one and the fake ones. Make it so the fake ones move around a bit more. Make it so when the real one jumps, they all jump or when the real one dodges, they all dodge. Make all buffs, even food buffs, show up on clones. Give the clones a little more survivability. Get rid of stealth.

[quote=4879964;Sorel.4870:]