Guild Wars 2

stof.9341:

You think this is all about me? No it’s not.

But I’m sure a lot of people would immediately think when they see you pass by with that armor : “Oh look, I nearly forgot how much gold I wasted buying that T3 cultural armor when I could just have waited for ANet to release it for 1/3 the gold price! Thanks you.”

At the beginning of gw2 the culture armor was rare, but after 1 year 119 g is nothing. And btw the flamekissed costed 800 Gems = 70 g so 70g is 1/3 of 119 g GG guys.

The flamekissed armor kind of comes “free” with 6 transmutation stones. The human cultural T3 armor comes on rare items with bad stats so you have to factor in the price of 6 transmutation crystals.

Facepunch.5710:

ronpierce.2760:

Well that’s just sad. (And no the first 11 pages were assuming it would continue to be available, there is a massive difference between seeing it a lot and 2 or 3 rare individuals, so no that’s not quite the same.)

But if you look at the actual content of those posts, people are complaining after having seen a single norn or a single sylvari in their human armor.

I think most people who can accept general reason can accept seeing 1 or 2 in it so those individuals don’t get cheated, and feel happy ANet fixed the long-run issue. To continue to rage because you see 1 or 2 people off-race with armor that’s still not the same thing just to run the topic into the ground would be a bit much. At least that’s what I’d think… If both sides can say “well you got your way” enough and the first group would rarely even see someone with this armor, I think overall they’d be able to get over it just fine. You seem to forget or ignore the fact that this will undoubtedly effect the trust in buying from ANet if they don’t let those who bought it in good nature keep it.

stof.9341:

The flamekissed armor kind of comes “free” with 6 transmutation stones. The human cultural T3 armor comes on rare items with bad stats so you have to factor in the price of 6 transmutation crystals.

As to this, TBH because the cost, I personally feel that Cultral armor should be exotic with the choice of stats, or even skins, but that’s a separate issue. It can’t be a skin simply due to the fact that it’s rank 80 PvP armor, but since pvp rewards are changing, this might change too. I’m not saying the Cultral armor system is perfect because it’s really not. I’m just saying people who got this version should be able to keep it, that’s it.

ronpierce.2760:

I think most people who can accept general reason can accept seeing 1 or 2 in it so those individuals don’t get cheated, and feel happy ANet fixed the long-run issue. To continue to rage because you see 1 or 2 people off-race with armor that’s still not the same thing just to run the topic into the ground would be a bit much. At least that’s what I’d think… If both sides can say “well you got your way” enough and the first group would rarely even see someone with this armor, I think overall they’d be able to get over it just fine. You seem to forget or ignore the fact that this will undoubtedly effect the trust in buying from ANet if they don’t let those who bought it in good nature keep it.

But all of this is your opinion, ron. You think most people should be able to move past seeing someone in this armor every once in a while. I agree with you. But it doesn’t matter what our opinions are. People have made their objections to this armor clear, and ANet is taking it seriously. These arguments you’re making to find a middle ground by letting some people keep the armor have no standing as a true middle ground in light of the community reaction, they’re just the best arguments you can come up with that allows us to keep the armor.

Titan Cronus.9216:

A wise man once said, “A good compromise leaves everyone feeling cheated”. it sounds totally wrong but its actually true. In a good compromise, no-one ever gets exactly what they want or feel is fair.

That is only true in the case of win-lose bargaining.

In win-win bargaining, facilitated by interest-based negotiation, a good compromise leaves everyone feeling they were treated fairly and everyone can have their interests satisfied.

Why!!!!? why do i have to lose this skin? i dont want gems back, i want my skin OR THE COST IN €€€€€€ OF THE GEMS + ECONOMIC COMPENSATION

LordByron.8369:

There are 2 kind of solutions

1) in wich BOTH sides lose something (and not just 1 side loses everything that is totally unfair)

2) one in wich nobody lose anything.

I try to suggest something along the 2:

1) bring back flamekissed on TP
2) reskin a cultural HUMAN light
3) give a free SKIN to every T3 owner and put it for sale at the T3 npc
4) delete T3 from cultural NPC

In this way T3 owner can keep an exclusive T3 AND reskin another armor with the new cultural OR overwrite the old T3, ANET has to design only 1 armor for 1 race and doesn t need to refund anyone; flamekissed armor and people who wants to buy it are happy…

Look at some of the the answers i got….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Flamekiss-cultural-issue/first#post3280332

The issue is not the flamekissed its the toxic community reaching a new low imho….

Let me get this straight … since there deleting your Rip off HT3 Cultural its wrong but deleting mine and redesigning it is ok?

Here is a new’s flash I spent 10x’s as much work as you did on your’s.
I went thought and checked all the armor’s in the game before I even rolled. I liked Norn I liked Sylvari but I choice human because of there cultural armor reminding me so much of the original Guild War’s 1 game. I leveled my elemental and Necro to 80. I then started the task of saving up yes I saved up for 2 sets of HT3 armor it was not easy it was not simple this was before they had the dungeon that throw gold at you.

Once Is saved up for both sets of armor it came time to dye them wanna know what I went with black/green on my Necro (I know very unoriginal) and Flame/Abyss on my Elemental. I then used numerous make over kit’s tweaking there looks to perfection. All this took me will over a month.

How much work did you put in? 5-10mins swiping a credit card?

angelpaladin.7921:

LordByron.8369:

There are 2 kind of solutions

1) in wich BOTH sides lose something (and not just 1 side loses everything that is totally unfair)

2) one in wich nobody lose anything.

I try to suggest something along the 2:

1) bring back flamekissed on TP
2) reskin a cultural HUMAN light
3) give a free SKIN to every T3 owner and put it for sale at the T3 npc
4) delete T3 from cultural NPC

In this way T3 owner can keep an exclusive T3 AND reskin another armor with the new cultural OR overwrite the old T3, ANET has to design only 1 armor for 1 race and doesn t need to refund anyone; flamekissed armor and people who wants to buy it are happy…

Look at some of the the answers i got….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Flamekiss-cultural-issue/first#post3280332

The issue is not the flamekissed its the toxic community reaching a new low imho….

Let me get this straight … since there deleting your Rip off HT3 Cultural its wrong but deleting mine and redesigning it is ok?

Here is a new’s flash I spent 10x’s as much work as you did on your’s.
I went thought and checked all the armor’s in the game before I even rolled. I liked Norn I liked Sylvari but I choice human because of there cultural armor reminding me so much of the original Guild War’s 1 game. I leveled my elemental and Necro to 80. I then started the task of saving up yes I saved up for 2 sets of HT3 armor it was not easy it was not simple this was before they had the dungeon that throw gold at you.

Once Is saved up for both sets of armor it came time to dye them wanna know what I went with black/green on my Necro (I know very unoriginal) and Flame/Abyss on my Elemental. I then used numerous make over kit’s tweaking there looks to perfection. All this took me will over a month.

How much work did you put in? 5-10mins swiping a credit card?

I spent 2 days worth of gameplay’s gold (about 115g) on mine… I could have bought Asura T3 but I thought the gems required to buy that, the hair kit and dyes I used would be worth the price of gold.
I understand ANet deciding to change it, and I understand people being annoyed that their precious T3 gear is somehow devalued by this. I don’t think it’s unfair for those of us who put as much work into getting the GOLD we spent on it would rather keep the skin we got.
Call me selfish all you like, but that’s my view.

I’m just hoping the new skin will be so awesome that people will choose not to give Anet a hard time about reimbursing their stuff. Tbh, I’d also like to keep my current Flamekissed skin since it’s an upgraded T3 human cultural and it’s the reason why I made a human in the first place. It’s one of the things that keeps me apart from the other races and I don’t want to lose that. I’m a human supremacist. XD

Something else has just occured to me, there are non-human NPCs with the human T3 light armour. So, with that in mind, why’s it a problem that non-human players should also have it?

LordByron.8369:

stop repeating again false informations..

They never said they can give back exactly what we had…..and what we heard from support says they won t.

Ashabhi.1365:

1. Anet screwed up.
2. People complained.
3. Anet came up with a solution that half the people like and half the people don’t.
4. Nobody’s lost anything yet.

Can we move on now?

No we can t

half people are losing a lot….
You don t understand what….WHY are you here?

I do understand that people have paid for something that they aren’t going to get to keep, and I also understand that ANet said they would give a full refund. Until they actually give out refunds that don’t “make one whole” we have yet to actually lose anything.

Those that bought the skins get to keep them until the “new and improved” skin comes out. If they don’t like it, they get a refund. It’s that simple.

However, until Anet actually does anything about it, all that’s happened right now is that the new skin has been removed from the TP. Those who bought it aren’t out anything at all until such time as ANet implements the new skins and implements a plan to reimburse those that were harmed…

I do feel bad for the people who like the skin and wish to keep it, but I also feel that if they wanted the Human T3 skin, then they should have rolled Human.

Yes, it was a horrid mistake on ANet’s part, and I am not happy with them for doing it, but I prefer to see what they come up with before condemning them for all eternity as some seemed to have done.

Tell me again, why are you here?

Titan Cronus.9216:

Something else has just occured to me, there are non-human NPCs with the human T3 light armour. So, with that in mind, why’s it a problem that non-human players should also have it?

I don’t know, but perhaps the train of thought (subconcious?) goes like this:

“That player is enjoying the schnazzy fashion of humans, but they paid less for it and they aren’t even human. GASP. They don’t deserve to be enjoying it since I had to jump through hoop a): creating and leveling a human and hoop b): paying twice as much gold and transmutation crystals, just to be able to enjoy this spectacular fashion.”

vs.

“There’s an risen acolyte/Asura NPC/etc wearing human cultural armor! That’s dumb, but w/e.”

Ashabhi…it’s not that simple at all. MANY factors and grey areas to consider. simply scroll up and read my latest post for example.

Ashabhi.1365:

I do feel bad for the people who like the skin and wish to keep it, but I also feel that if they wanted the Human T3 skin, then they should have rolled Human.

I did and had the T3 skin but then replaced it with the new Flamekissed one.

BTW, There are a lot of ppl saying “Why in Tyria would you replace your T3 set with a gem store set?” but the answer is simple (for me at least). I already had two other sets of armour but most obviously because it has the exact same skin but with a fiery effect.

Anet advertised a product, and I bought it. I spent $10 of my hard earned money for the 800gems on a student budget. I thought since the holidays are coming up I will treat myself to something small. Now due to the majority gw2 population disliking the new skin, Anet is going “door-to-door” to those who purchased the product and is asking for it “back” (by changing the looks and/or a refund of gems). I do not see why I should give Anet the product back that I paid for with real money. Thus saying what I bought is now mine. What gives you the right to change it for those who are happy with their purchase. If you are going to change it then I do not want the gems, I would want my money back.

Not only i have the flame skin but also bougth the fused weapons to match the armour more and those are 330+g atm on trader. So if the new skin isnt as sweet as this or just horrible like the medium and heavy i will give support a hard time for refunds.

And to be fair (my opinion) i have 12 char 8 of them whit multible t3 sets so why we cant hold this skin? just its looking like t3 human? You can make the gold in a heart beat these days to buy a normal t3 thats not even worth the word “Exlusive”. So ya t3’s not that hard to get if you put a little bit of time in it. So best option in my eyes is make a light version of every race like this and get it over whit, becouse ppl will spend more to get the weapons and stuff matching anyway (at least the most of them, i am for sure)

And for the record the skin i use on a human female ele, simply i just dont see it fit much for other race’s.

ronpierce.2760:

Well, to be perfectly honest due to this event, and having my stuff ripped from me, T3 already lost its prestige. Anyone I see using it would probably just put a bad taste in my mouth and I’d correlate that armor set with being greedy/snobby. :/ So, just saying, congrats preserving the prestige of it by throwing a tantrum and short-windowing other players fun, that set is now the mark of greed. (FYI I play human, it was never that big of a deal.)

I’ve been suspecting that is a thing for awhile now. I’m wearing mine all the time lately…but then I’ve just been really happy that it became useful in the last week or so since I finally got enough charged quartz to make it worth something instead of being a Rare deathtrap. Since in the past few months, due to factors external to this game, there have been periods of well over a week that I wouldn’t even be able to touch GW2.

Bankai.3749:

Anet advertised a product, and I bought it. I spent $10 of my hard earned money for the 800gems on a student budget. I thought since the holidays are coming up I will treat myself to something small. Now due to the majority gw2 population disliking the new skin, Anet is going “door-to-door” to those who purchased the product and is asking for it “back” (by changing the looks and/or a refund of gems). I do not see why I should give Anet the product back that I paid for with real money. Thus saying what I bought is now mine. What gives you the right to change it for those who are happy with their purchase. If you are going to change it then I do not want the gems, I would want my money back.

Read the whole discussion, especially this page you posted on. You do not have any rights on Anet’s virtual created and copyrighted content. You purchase a license of using the art work. The artwork is and stays Anet’s property and can be modified at any time of the day due to the fact that they hold the COPYRIGHT!

You can however request the gem stones back that you spend on that design since it has been advertised, but only if the skin is 100% removed. That does not mean 100% removed from the Gem Store that means 100% removed from your characters. The removal of the gem stone could be declared as limited sale and the ending date does not even have to be announced. This also does not mean you can request a refund to your credit card, the contract you agree on is based on delivering in game currency, in our case GEM STONES.

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

slurpey.6014:

Bankai.3749:

Anet advertised a product, and I bought it. I spent $10 of my hard earned money for the 800gems on a student budget. I thought since the holidays are coming up I will treat myself to something small. Now due to the majority gw2 population disliking the new skin, Anet is going “door-to-door” to those who purchased the product and is asking for it “back” (by changing the looks and/or a refund of gems). I do not see why I should give Anet the product back that I paid for with real money. Thus saying what I bought is now mine. What gives you the right to change it for those who are happy with their purchase. If you are going to change it then I do not want the gems, I would want my money back.

Read the whole discussion, especially this page you posted on. You do not have any rights on Anet’s virtual created and copyrighted content. You purchase a license of using the art work. The artwork is and stays Anet’s property and can be modified at any time of the day due to the fact that they hold the COPYRIGHT!

You can however request the gem stones back that you spend on that design since it has been advertised, but only if the skin is 100% removed. That does not mean 100% removed from the Gem Store that means 100% removed from your characters. The removal of the gem stone could be declared as limited sale and the ending date does not even have to be announced. This also does not mean you can request a refund to your credit card, the contract you agree on is based on delivering in game currency, in our case GEM STONES.

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

It’s not screaming it’s about being a satisfied customer.

slurpey.6014:

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

if that’s the case than how did that guy from proudmoore on wow win his case, believe it or not but if their contract they have us agree brakes any rules of said country, a person has the right to sue. and if their not happy with their purchase because of a bait and switch, they have a right to get their money back

As Bankai said, you have advertised a product, we bought it and we should be able to keep it if we don’t like the new one. We shouldn’t be feeling consequences of this Flamekissed fiasco, its all on you.
If you decide to change it for everyone, i don’t want any refund, delete this armor and keep those 800 gems, those will be last I’ve spent in your shop.

Ashabhi.1365:

I do feel bad for the people who like the skin and wish to keep it, but I also feel that if they wanted the Human T3 skin, then they should have rolled Human.

I have five human characters rolled. One of them is wearing T3 light boots and one is wearing a T3 medium armor chest, I’ve never bought more than that, not because I couldn’t afford it, but because I don’t want it.

I didn’t buy the Flamekissed skin because it is Human T3. I bought it because of the flaming effect and because it displays, highlights and emphasizes the hair, skin, eyes and glow of my sylvari. If I had a character the medium and heavy flaming armors suited that well, I would buy them despite what cost or level item their base item is.

The value of the skin to me has nothing to do with it being T3 or Human. There is no special prestige to 6 armor skins that cost a total of 119 gold (averaging less than 20 gold each) in a game where weapon and back skins sell for hundreds of gold and legendary weapons sell for thousands.

BazeDragon.3927:

angelpaladin.7921:

LordByron.8369:

There are 2 kind of solutions

1) in wich BOTH sides lose something (and not just 1 side loses everything that is totally unfair)

2) one in wich nobody lose anything.

I try to suggest something along the 2:

1) bring back flamekissed on TP
2) reskin a cultural HUMAN light
3) give a free SKIN to every T3 owner and put it for sale at the T3 npc
4) delete T3 from cultural NPC

In this way T3 owner can keep an exclusive T3 AND reskin another armor with the new cultural OR overwrite the old T3, ANET has to design only 1 armor for 1 race and doesn t need to refund anyone; flamekissed armor and people who wants to buy it are happy…

Look at some of the the answers i got….
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Flamekiss-cultural-issue/first#post3280332

The issue is not the flamekissed its the toxic community reaching a new low imho….

Let me get this straight … since there deleting your Rip off HT3 Cultural its wrong but deleting mine and redesigning it is ok?

Here is a new’s flash I spent 10x’s as much work as you did on your’s.
I went thought and checked all the armor’s in the game before I even rolled. I liked Norn I liked Sylvari but I choice human because of there cultural armor reminding me so much of the original Guild War’s 1 game. I leveled my elemental and Necro to 80. I then started the task of saving up yes I saved up for 2 sets of HT3 armor it was not easy it was not simple this was before they had the dungeon that throw gold at you.

Once Is saved up for both sets of armor it came time to dye them wanna know what I went with black/green on my Necro (I know very unoriginal) and Flame/Abyss on my Elemental. I then used numerous make over kit’s tweaking there looks to perfection. All this took me will over a month.

How much work did you put in? 5-10mins swiping a credit card?

I spent 2 days worth of gameplay’s gold (about 115g) on mine… I could have bought Asura T3 but I thought the gems required to buy that, the hair kit and dyes I used would be worth the price of gold.
I understand ANet deciding to change it, and I understand people being annoyed that their precious T3 gear is somehow devalued by this. I don’t think it’s unfair for those of us who put as much work into getting the GOLD we spent on it would rather keep the skin we got.
Call me selfish all you like, but that’s my view.

I must have missed the part where you manged to level that Asura in less then 24hr’s cause I can say it took me several week’s to level up my Human’s. O wait that’s right when we add in the time I spent leveling for the specific armor it invalidates your entire argument.

sorry about that.

Bankai.3749:

Anet advertised a product, and I bought it. I spent $10 of my hard earned money for the 800gems on a student budget. I thought since the holidays are coming up I will treat myself to something small. Now due to the majority gw2 population disliking the new skin, Anet is going “door-to-door” to those who purchased the product and is asking for it “back” (by changing the looks and/or a refund of gems). I do not see why I should give Anet the product back that I paid for with real money. Thus saying what I bought is now mine. What gives you the right to change it for those who are happy with their purchase. If you are going to change it then I do not want the gems, I would want my money back.

One thing you don’t own anything in the game you dont even technically speaking own the account your using to post on the forum’s with. What you do is rent the account from anet. That’s why if they decided to ban everyone on these forum’s today there not much we could do because its there right to do so.

All you did when you spent that 10 dollar’s was rent 800 gem’s from ANET you never really owned those gem’s cause Anet could have banned your account before you spent them. The armor you don’t own it belongs to ANET guess what they can do as they please with the armor if they wanted to change it to 4 blocks with no effects they have that right.

MisterEction.9382:

I have five human characters rolled. One of them is wearing T3 light boots and one is wearing a T3 medium armor chest, I’ve never bought more than that, not because I couldn’t afford it, but because I don’t want it.

I didn’t buy the Flamekissed skin because it is Human T3. I bought it because of the flaming effect and because it displays, highlights and emphasizes the hair, skin, eyes and glow of my sylvari. If I had a character the medium and heavy flaming armors suited that well, I would buy them despite what cost or level item their base item is.

The value of the skin to me has nothing to do with it being T3 or Human. There is no special prestige to 6 armor skins that cost a total of 119 gold (averaging less than 20 gold each) in a game where weapon and back skins sell for hundreds of gold and legendary weapons sell for thousands.

Cause getting to 80 is a trivial achievement that can be accomplished in a short period of time without cutting out other things you’d rather be doing (or have to be doing). So guiding your choice of character by what you want in the eventual endgame really doesn’t matter and is totally not a factor, right?

Quizotic.2815:

slurpey.6014:

Again the so called product is not yours and never will be, doesn’t matter if you paid real life money, in game money or donkeys for that item. Stop screaming for things you have no rights on lol.

if that’s the case than how did that guy from proudmoore on wow win his case, believe it or not but if their contract they have us agree brakes any rules of said country, a person has the right to sue. and if their not happy with their purchase because of a bait and switch, they have a right to get their money back

That dude sued Blizzard for a breach of security after purchasing a false advertised product that authenticates the player and protects their account and private information.

How did the skin Anet released caused any security issues with your account?

Link the contract that states that you own the right on their copyrighted material and game itself after you donated a specific amount of money to the game itself. I yet have to see that…

angelpaladin.7921:

I must have missed the part where you manged to level that Asura in less then 24hr’s cause I can say it took me several week’s to level up my Human’s. O wait that’s right when we add in the time I spent leveling for the specific armor it invalidates your entire argument.

sorry about that.

Your “time spent leveling” is irrelevant to use of cultural T3 armor because a level 1 character can wear it by transmuting. You did not have to do that to wear the armor, so it in no way makes you “more qualified” to wear it. The only thing that makes you more qualified is having clicked ‘create’ after designing your new human toon.

Also: http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuationandmechanics/tp/GuideApostrophe.htm

Bankai.3749:

It’s not screaming it’s about being a satisfied customer.

What your saying is your more important then someone else on these forums? That your wants and needs trump others wants and needs?

What makes it right for anet to satisfy you the minority customer while alienating the majority? Wouldn’t it make more since to do what’s good for the majority and the health of the game?

Facepunch.5710:

angelpaladin.7921:

I must have missed the part where you manged to level that Asura in less then 24hr’s cause I can say it took me several week’s to level up my Human’s. O wait that’s right when we add in the time I spent leveling for the specific armor it invalidates your entire argument.

sorry about that.

Your “time spent leveling” is irrelevant to use of cultural T3 armor because a level 1 character can wear it by transmuting. You did not have to do that to wear the armor, so it in no way makes you “more qualified” to wear it. The only thing that makes you more qualified is having clicked ‘create’ after designing your new human toon.

Also: http://grammar.about.com/od/punctuationandmechanics/tp/GuideApostrophe.htm

I am sorry my post hit a nerve Facepunch but thank you for pointing out that I need help with my writing I appreciate that.

but what I wrote is still vaild regardless of how you try to spin it. I am sorry your not getting your way and your in the minority on this issue. I understand it stinks shoot I just recently lost 18 fractal level’s guess what my compensation was? I got nothing I didn’t even get a we don’t care you lost progression. At least there trying to compensate you.

Bankai.3749:

It’s not screaming it’s about being a satisfied customer.

I do understand that and you have all rights as a customer to complain about that. But Customer Service and Business Policies do not go together most of the time. Sad but true. However you guys can not base it on laws you somewhere read, or lawsuits that have been somewhere posted and assume that Anet is doing the same thing.

As mentioned so many times, you as the customer have a case if Anet does not refund the Gem Stones, in game not to your credit card. That’s the only contract you guys signed. The contract states that after successful donation you receive a in game currency and in this case its gem stones. There’s nothing else in the contract that requires Anet to do anything else. Now if Anet decides to give you the money back (your credit card) then that’s awesome and outstanding customer support but they are not bound to that by law, policies or any other terms in the contract. Not even the fine print states anything different.

stof.9341:

MrSilver.5269:

All I know is that I see VERY few people with the skin in game. The fairest thing to do is to allow those who purchased it keep it, and then re-release a new skin for others to purchase.

PLEASE don’t take something away from people that purchased gems to buy, overwriting existing t3 skins in the process.

Solution outcome :
- kittens off every player from group A that doesn’t want this set to exist
- pleases the VERY few players that got it
- kittens off every other player that wants it and didn’t buy it in time

Solution rating : 1/10 because you yourself said there’s VERY few players that will be pleased with it.

You also forgot about the player’s who didn’t like the armor didn’t want the armor but now no longer trust Anet. Because the cultural armor is suppose to be exclusive to there respected races. By continuing to sell the cultural armor on the TP and letting people keep it on non human races. Anet sets a precedent to offer anything exclusive up on the trading post

This would start a down hill snowball affect with the game. The community’s trust in Anet is already rocky at best. Recent decisions and changes have lead to a very unhappy community. The game has slowly but steadily been losing players over the last 5-6month’s. The sign’s are on the wall anyone with a little common since and the ability to critically think can see that.

Hopefully next year we will start to see the game pick up some much needed steam but first we have to get there.

angelpaladin.7921:

but what I wrote is still vaild regardless of how you try to spin it. I am sorry your not getting your way and your in the minority on this issue. I understand it stinks shoot I just recently lost 18 fractal level’s guess what my compensation was? I got nothing I didn’t even get a we don’t care you lost progression. At least there trying to compensate you.

So again, your replies aren’t really based on valid counterpoints, you just spout things that you assume are relevant. For example, I didn’t say I want to get my way, in fact if you read my posts here you’d realize that I agree with you on the big picture, despite the fact that losing the armor is not what I want at all. I just pointed out that you’re making claims that are completely unfounded. What you wrote is not “still valid regardless,” and I didn’t spin it at all.

I’m much more concerned that they re-skinned armor models to begin with—especially for gem store armor—not specifically which model they chose to re-skin. We had just gotten the decent Phalanx/Trickster/Viper armor sets only one patch prior, the players certainly weren’t going to complain if we didn’t get another set so soon after. Take the extra weeks to put out something that actually matches the level of professionalism in the other art assets in this game.

I really would like to see an official Anet response on what exactly the rush was, and why the timeline was so tight they had to resort to reusing existing models in the first place.

@ angelpaladin: What your saying is your more important then someone else on these forums? That your wants and needs trump others wants and needs?
What makes it right for anet to satisfy you the minority customer while alienating the majority? Wouldn’t it make more since to do what’s good for the majority and the health of the game?

What are you talking about? That is so far off its beyond me that you have even came to that conclusion. I am simply stating my issue on the matter, so that they can be noted in Anets decision on a solution. Furthermore, what I stated on my last post did not even come close in regarding to any form of lawsuit or any legal action. All I am doing is stating my frustration on the matter and hopefully reaching out to Anet in addressing these concerns so that BOTH sides of the spectrum are happy.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I have five human characters rolled. One of them is wearing T3 light boots and one is wearing a T3 medium armor chest, I’ve never bought more than that, not because I couldn’t afford it, but because I don’t want it.

I didn’t buy the Flamekissed skin because it is Human T3. I bought it because of the flaming effect and because it displays, highlights and emphasizes the hair, skin, eyes and glow of my sylvari. If I had a character the medium and heavy flaming armors suited that well, I would buy them despite what cost or level item their base item is.

The value of the skin to me has nothing to do with it being T3 or Human. There is no special prestige to 6 armor skins that cost a total of 119 gold (averaging less than 20 gold each) in a game where weapon and back skins sell for hundreds of gold and legendary weapons sell for thousands.

Cause getting to 80 is a trivial achievement that can be accomplished in a short period of time without cutting out other things you’d rather be doing (or have to be doing). So guiding your choice of character by what you want in the eventual endgame really doesn’t matter and is totally not a factor, right?

Yes. Getting to 80 irrelevant. T3 is a level 80 rare armor that can be transmuted onto a level 0 or 1 item and worn from the start of the game. My 14th level necromancer is wearing T3 light boots and has been for a while. One of my 80th level rangers has been wearing a T3 medium coat since 2nd level.

MisterEction.9382:

Yes. Getting to 80 irrelevant. T3 is a level 80 rare armor that can be transmuted onto a level 0 or 1 item and worn from the start of the game. My 14th level necromancer is wearing T3 light boots and has been for a while. One of my 80th level rangers has been wearing a T3 medium coat since 2nd level.

No, it’s not, if that’s your first character and you have no transmutation stones or other stuff built up (that would have been me back then). By comparison it’d be waaaay easier to just get the 10 buck skin off of the gem store and use that. Plus you forgo having to buy the stones that first time, since you don’t always get them for dailies.

Not having time to read through the entirety of this lengthy discussion on the topic of the re-skinned human T3, I’ll try to keep it relevant, mention the essential points that I’ve seen other users post, and weigh in with an opinion upon how this could be balanced out:

An outright withdrawal of the flame-kissed skin seems unfair, and though it can be justified through the further unfairness caused to those who farmed the gold for and bought Human cultural T3, outright removing the skin ( for my part it was the only attractive aesthetic work, out of the re-skinned armour releases) seems to me to be a real waste. The other re-skins appear to me far more lazy in their execution, and also under-handed; basic armor, badly re-skinned, sold to semi-unwitting customers for large amounts of gold, or real money. I’m surprised there wasn’t far more uproar over THAT attitude toward re-skins. I think it is a point of debate that should be taken up.

There are plenty of people who spend money on gems, and those who do so will in return be outraged that the money spent on gems in such a fashion was then “wasted” through a switch of product, or gets refunded. It’s like a business trying to initiate a product recall without any justifiable (to the customer) for doing so. Frankly a bad business call, and running the gem store in such a fashion will result in fewer long term customers paying real money for gems; in part the purpose of said gem store.

From my perspective, the original flame-kissed skin should be retained in some fashion, but it needs to be balanced with the fact it is a re-skin of the T3 Human cultural. Whether that be by doubling its price, in comparison to existing human light T3, to customers buying for non-human characters (a move which may have to be followed by the opportunity for other such highly priced re-skins of other races’ cultural gear available to all races), or through allowing the flame-kissed skin to replace/be an alternate version of the existing cultural gear. This latter option, however, still would appear to require some additional compensation on the part of NC Soft/Anet to customers who bought the skin; after all, it was their mistake, as a business providing a service.

Titan Cronus.9216:

“A good compromise leaves everyone feeling cheated”.

No idea of the origin of the quote (the internet also appears confused on this one), but well said regardless. Another perspective, however, is that everyone who loses something however should also gain something. It’s well within NC Soft/Anet’s interests, and capacity, to manage a compromise that would help them save face, and also keep their customers happy. Anything else is, frankly, laziness on their part; all too true a fault of modern capitalism, more broadly speaking.

If the people who bought the skin lose it, then it has to be compensated not merely by the acknowledgement of a mistake, but by NC Soft/Anet compensating their customers properly for presenting them with such an inconvenience. A simple refund of gems, to my mind, is inappropriate.

To save face, they should frankly give additional gems as part of the refund.

If they keep the skin, it needs to be extremely exclusive, in some fashion. Appropriate at the very least to the T3 cultural re-skin which it was. Higher price, alternate purchase method, whatever; but in doing so know they’ve opened that door, and likely need to follow suit with other cultural items.

The people in the least need of satisfying, if such points are taken into account, are those who had their pride stung by the, albeit thoughtless, fashion in which the skin was sold on the gem store. By taking it away from people who paid for it, or changing the method in which it is obtained to be at least equal to the investment by those obtaining the cultural gear, if not more challenging. But please remember that in quelling your outrage, you’ve given plenty more people a reason to be outraged.

Yet injustice was inflicted upon everyone except the companies causing it thus far; I suggest that as customers, you might want to point out the importance of that error to them.

I have bought this particular set for my Norn Ele there is nothing wrong with it just because it uses the same skin as tier 3 cultural shouldn’t matter This set looks great on the Norn Elementalist and should keep it as it is I don’t want it changed I have bought it and i want it kept as it is. Fair enough they have said if we are not happy with the new skin (which we all know we wont be!) then we will get a refund but we are still going to be ripped off because of the fluctuation in gem prices. I will have this kept as it is without the change I bought it I want it (after all its just a skin like everything else in this game) Taking it away from me is THEFT just so you know this is how I see it. I know people will be upset about my comments here and I am sorry to those who are affected by it. Keep the skin as it is because it is still unique in its own way.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

Yes. Getting to 80 irrelevant. T3 is a level 80 rare armor that can be transmuted onto a level 0 or 1 item and worn from the start of the game. My 14th level necromancer is wearing T3 light boots and has been for a while. One of my 80th level rangers has been wearing a T3 medium coat since 2nd level.

No, it’s not, if that’s your first character and you have no transmutation stones or other stuff built up (that would have been me back then). By comparison it’d be waaaay easier to just get the 10 buck skin off of the gem store and use that. Plus you forgo having to buy the stones that first time, since you don’t always get them for dailies.

I can buy a character slot, gem-to-gold a T3 armor and stick it on a level 2 character in under 10 minutes. Right now. You did yours the hard way. So are you demanding that ArenaNet cease all gem-to-gold sales and take away all the transmutation stones?

The scythe my 14th level necromancer is carrying currently costs over five times what you paid for the set of armor you waited until level 80 to buy. If someone wanted to, they could transmute and split a legendary repeatedly as they level a character. Level means nothing in regard to the value of items on a character.

What your armor cost you, how long it took you and how you got the gold or gems is irrelevant to what my armor cost me, how long it took me or how I got the gold or gems.

It is especially irrelevant to why I should have rolled a human to wear a set of T3 armor if I wanted to wear an armor created based upon that model a year later that wasn’t limited to humans. The fact that you didn’t like that ArenaNet made the Flamekissed armor the way they did doesn’t mean I did something wrong by buying it and having bought it, wanting to keep it or be given a skin in exchange that I consider to be of equal quality, utility and desirability.

MisterEction.9382:

I can buy a character slot, gem-to-gold a T3 armor and stick it on a level 2 character in under 10 minutes. Right now. You did yours the hard way. So are you demanding that ArenaNet cease all gem-to-gold sales and take away all the transmutation stones?

The scythe my 14th level necromancer is carrying currently costs over five times what you paid for the set of armor you waited until level 80 to buy. If someone wanted to, they could transmute and split a legendary repeatedly as they level a character. Level means nothing in regard to the value of items on a character.

What your armor cost you, how long it took you and how you got the gold or gems is irrelevant to what my armor cost me, how long it took me or how I got the gold or gems.

It is especially irrelevant to why I should have rolled a human to wear a set of T3 armor if I wanted to wear an armor created based upon that model a year later that wasn’t limited to humans. The fact that you didn’t like that ArenaNet made the Flamekissed armor the way they did doesn’t mean I did something wrong by buying it and having bought it, wanting to keep it or be given a skin in exchange that I consider to be of equal quality, utility and desirability.

Nah, I’m just illustrating that the elitism (eg you can get yours instantly therefore it’s ok even if other people didn’t have the option) goes both ways. In this thread a lot of people are complaining about the elitism of exclusionists…this is a show of the elitism of people with means vs those who don’t really have the same means.

Nietzsches Pet.5079:

The other re-skins appear to me far more lazy in their execution, and also under-handed; basic armor, badly re-skinned, sold to semi-unwitting customers for large amounts of gold, or real money. I’m surprised there wasn’t far more uproar over THAT attitude toward re-skins. I think it is a point of debate that should be taken up.

In their case I question there ability to sell at any significant rate (I mean I’ve saw no one wearing it in game and still haven’t seen anyone in game wearing it) . I think to some extent their lack of sales compared with past armor sales is probably going to be say the reskinning idea probably isn’t worth the effort

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I can buy a character slot, gem-to-gold a T3 armor and stick it on a level 2 character in under 10 minutes. Right now. You did yours the hard way. So are you demanding that ArenaNet cease all gem-to-gold sales and take away all the transmutation stones?

The scythe my 14th level necromancer is carrying currently costs over five times what you paid for the set of armor you waited until level 80 to buy. If someone wanted to, they could transmute and split a legendary repeatedly as they level a character. Level means nothing in regard to the value of items on a character.

What your armor cost you, how long it took you and how you got the gold or gems is irrelevant to what my armor cost me, how long it took me or how I got the gold or gems.

It is especially irrelevant to why I should have rolled a human to wear a set of T3 armor if I wanted to wear an armor created based upon that model a year later that wasn’t limited to humans. The fact that you didn’t like that ArenaNet made the Flamekissed armor the way they did doesn’t mean I did something wrong by buying it and having bought it, wanting to keep it or be given a skin in exchange that I consider to be of equal quality, utility and desirability.

Nah, I’m just illustrating that the elitism (eg you can get yours instantly therefore it’s ok even if other people didn’t have the option) goes both ways. In this thread a lot of people are complaining about the elitism of exclusionists…this is a show of the elitism of people with means vs those who don’t really have the same means.

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game and are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is the idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Personally I wasn’t happy about the use in tier 3 cultural, probably for the same reasons listed here many times over.

However I am not without sympathy for the people who bought gem armour. But I think it was the right decision in a way. Maybe they could make it the armour depend on your race, if you are a sylvari, the flamewalker armour could be t3 sylvari, same for norn etc etc.

Or address the skin for t3 cultural is the issue, since t3 cultural costs double the gold (if covert the gems to gold) perhaps it would be worth adding a different, and maybe better glow and particle effect on to the human t3 cultural armour. Perhaps make the effect dyeable as well. This will allow those who bought the gemstore armour to retain it and those who own the cultural armour to feel like their effort and amount of gold spent isn’t rendered pointless?

MisterEction.9382:

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Then what about the people who didn’t have the option because it didn’t exist when they decided to go for it? Although, if you have all of the things you elaborated on before, you are certainly have more means than I do. So you can more easily casually acquire those things than I can.

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Then what about the people who didn’t have the option because it didn’t exist when they decided to go for it? Although, if you have all of the things you elaborated on before, you are certainly have more means than I do. So you can more easily casually acquire those things than I can.

To both the cited users; frankly, both sides have been cheated. The arguments both presented, while valid, are almost meaningless because it has simply become a question of two “sides” of an argument butting heads. All the while, the badly thought out decisions (in putting the skin up for sale, and then taking it down) on the part of the business providing this game for us, is being side-lined and neither Anet nor NC Soft expect to have to make further adjustments, such as distribute compensation to the parties which will be short-changed by the way this re-skinning fiasco is playing out.

But if they’re not contractually obligated it then illustrates another point to us, the ignorant consumers; always read the fine print.

natzmc.2895:

Personally I wasn’t happy about the use in tier 3 cultural, probably for the same reasons listed here many times over.

However I am not without sympathy for the people who bought gem armour. But I think it was the right decision in a way. Maybe they could make it the armour depend on your race, if you are a sylvari, the flamewalker armour could be t3 sylvari, same for norn etc etc.

I, and I’m sure others, appreciate the sympathy. But just welding flames onto all the T3s doesn’t work. It takes away what makes the Flamekissed armor perfect for a sylvari – that it displays, complements and highlights the colors of their hair, eye, skin and glow colors. For some reason, ArenaNet created sylvari with great skin colors and the glow effect, then made their T3 light armor cover them up.

To fix this, ArenaNet needs to put some work into the replacement to ensure that while making it different from human T3, they don’t take away what it provides to the people who bought it and matches as well as possible the kinds of coloring and accessories it works with now.

You can have two fancy dresses of the same color that look great, show a lot of skin and can be used interchangeably with the same accessories, but still look different. There is no reason the same can’t be done with a digital skin.

MisterEction.9382:

I, and I’m sure others, appreciate the sympathy. But just welding flames onto all the T3s doesn’t work. It takes away what makes the Flamekissed armor perfect for a sylvari – that it displays, complements and highlights the colors of their hair, eye, skin and glow colors. For some reason, ArenaNet created sylvari with great skin colors and the glow effect, then made their T3 light armor cover them up.

To fix this, ArenaNet needs to put some work into the replacement to ensure that while making it different from human T3, they don’t take away what it provides to the people who bought it and matches as well as possible the kinds of coloring and accessories it works with now.

You can have two fancy dresses of the same color that look great, show a lot of skin and can be used interchangeably with the same accessories, but still look different. There is no reason the same can’t be done with a digital skin.

This is exactly my opinion. I bought this on my male Sylvari because it was one of the only good looking male light skins I’ve seen – smooth appearance without a bunch of ruffles or something, tight fitting, shows skin, takes pastel colors and makes them look great with the fire effect. I expect the same elements to be in the new armor, otherwise it will be a failure in my eyes.

Edit: A picture, just for reference.

Nietzsches Pet.5079:

Mnemon.6205:

MisterEction.9382:

I’m far from a person of means. You aren’t illustrating anything about elitism except that you are unclear on the concept. There is nothing elitist about demonstrating that it is just as possible to buy T3 armor in the gem store and place it on a low level character as it is to do the same thing with gem store armor. Or that there are other things in the game even more valuable that it is equally possible to do so with. Especially since it is in direct response to your argument on such matters.

The elitism comes in thinking you are better than the other person, which is entirely the province of the T3 people who “earned” their armor by playing a game are disparaging those that spend money on gems they bought with money doing work that for many is likely much more unpleasant. So really, it is idle who feel they are superior to those that work.

Then what about the people who didn’t have the option because it didn’t exist when they decided to go for it? Although, if you have all of the things you elaborated on before, you are certainly have more means than I do. So you can more easily casually acquire those things than I can.

To both the cited users; frankly, both sides have been cheated. The arguments both presented, while valid, are almost meaningless because it has simply become a question of two “sides” of an argument butting heads. All the while, the badly thought out decisions (in putting the skin up for sale, and then taking it down) on the part of the business providing this game for us, is being side-lined and neither Anet nor NC Soft expect to have to make further adjustments, such as distribute compensation to the parties which will be short-changed by the way this re-skinning fiasco is playing out.

But if they’re not contractually obligated it then illustrates another point to us, the ignorant consumers; always read the fine print.

Every MMO has the same fine print. But, like a lot of legal contracts and corporate policies, they’re designed to allow the company maximum flexibility and protect it from liabilty. Just because the contract or their policy allows them to do something bad to people doesn’t necessarily mean they should – from either a business or moral perspective. For example, plenty of company’s have written policies and employment contracts that allow for discipline up to and including termination for various offenses, but good companies and good people don’t go around firing people just because the policy says they can. They try to do the right thing.

As far as the sides thing. It is being exacerbated by those on the T3 side that even having achieved what they want – removal of the skin from those that purchased it – are attacking those seeking fair compensation for the loss of the skin, something that really shouldn’t be of any concern to them at this point.

But you’re right that the main problem and largely ignored problem is how this was handled by ArenaNet. They gave one side everything they wanted to appease them and are using change management on the other side rather than identifying their interests and trying to find a fair solution that satisfies them as well.