Guild Wars 2

A few contradictions to the OP’s post:

1) Metas: not everyone runs zerker…in fact I run Celestial, Cleric’s, or Magi’s depending on my character.

2) Corner stacking: This was fixed with most locations, especially dungeons like Ascalon. The trick was to stack so certain attacks you not hit you as intended…now, if you corner stack with, say the spider queen, you are just going to wipe when she does her aoe.

3) Glitches…they happen…report them via the bug panel and they’ll get worked on eventually. I cannot remember a single game I’ve played that didn’t have a glitch or two.

4) Exploiting…as defined it is “abusing a bug or error, or misusing the system for a purpose other than what is it intended for”…you say Lupi + reflects is an exploit…well, if I am not mistaken the attack you are referring to is his projectile. Reflections reflect projectiles, thus such is as intended and not an exploit.

My overall opinion is, like any game, people will take a break from GW2 when they feel burnt out…I took a 3-4 month break to play Star Trek Online during the Delta Rising pre-event and launch, and to take a shot at Diablo 3. I learned back in 2003/2004 that playing one game and only one game for too long gets boring no matter what you try to do. It isn’t the game, it is just human nature…as humans we need variety to keep our minds active.

With HoT coming out and the changes with the specialization system I’d say ArenaNet has been working on trying to give what the player base has been calling for. However, some changes are not always as great as they are intended to be (NPE I’m looking at you)…I think the developers are doing their best. One major thing to remember is companies like Blizzard have thousands working on WoW…ArenaNet does not have a huge staff, but the team they have on hand have made two incredible games with features that rival those other companies’ pet projects.

Tigaseye.2047:

This could well be true.

But, there’s not really any argument over what is true, or not.

Truth just is.

The argument is over whether it should be true, or not.

In other words, should it be the case that meleeing is better than ranged, for example?

…and yes, I get why it was made that way – as a lazy attempt to make it worthwhile to melee, by giving it more damage.

But, that doesn’t mean it’s right (from a good design/fulfilling gameplay POV) that you can’t use ranged weaps, if you prefer; unless you make/join a special “do what you like” type group.

What are you talking about? You should really re-read what you write before you post.

The advantages/disadvantages to melee vs ranged are very well balanced in this game. Do you really think you should be able to stand at 1500 range and pew pew things to death with the same amount of damage as a player standing at an enemies feet? How is that balanced or even fun for that matter?

So the truth comes out in your last sentence. You basically want to play with any build you want and still join any group that you want? Sounds pretty kitten selfish to me. The real problem in this game is players such as your self who just utterly refuse to group with like-minded people. There are plenty of people who want to play in cleric’s and range the enemies. Play with those people and everyone will be happy.

cranked.3812:

Tigaseye.2047:

This could well be true.

But, there’s not really any argument over what is true, or not.

Truth just is.

The argument is over whether it should be true, or not.

In other words, should it be the case that meleeing is better than ranged, for example?

…and yes, I get why it was made that way – as a lazy attempt to make it worthwhile to melee, by giving it more damage.

But, that doesn’t mean it’s right (from a good design/fulfilling gameplay POV) that you can’t use ranged weaps, if you prefer; unless you make/join a special “do what you like” type group.

What are you talking about? You should really re-read what you write before you post.

The advantages/disadvantages to melee vs ranged are very well balanced in this game. Do you really think you should be able to stand at 1500 range and pew pew things to death with the same amount of damage as a player standing at an enemies feet? How is that balanced or even fun for that matter?

So the truth comes out in your last sentence. You basically want to play with any build you want and still join any group that you want? Sounds pretty kitten selfish to me. The real problem in this game is players such as your self who just utterly refuse to group with like-minded people. There are plenty of people who want to play in cleric’s and range the enemies. Play with those people and everyone will be happy.

I’ve answered this so many times, already, I really can’t be bothered to answer it again, in depth.

You’re just making a whole load of assumptions, anyway, so there probably isn’t even any point in answering at all.

But, long story short – there are other ways to ensure that ranged and melee are (on average) equally effective and/or risky, other than just nerfing ranged weapon damage.

Other ways that other games use.

Clearly there is something out of balance, when you simply aren’t allowed to use ranged weaps, most of the time, in most groups.

The problem is, all of this game’s problems are intertwined, like a messy ball of string.

It’s an “I wouldn’t start from here, if I were you.” situation, IMO.

I think they had good and honourable intentions, when they first came up with the ideas for this game, but good intentions simply aren’t enough.

…and if you really don’t understand what I was trying to say in that comment, I honestly don’t know what to say.

Tigaseye.2047:

Well, I disagree.

I think the skill in a game should be in the way you, physically, play it.

Which will, obviously, gradually improve over time.

Not in the “skill” of googling optimal builds.

…and intellect plate will, obviously, seriously nerf warrior, whatever build they choose.

So, I have no idea what you’re even try to saying with that.

Other than to try to describe a new player and your, apparent, desire to make them perform even worse than they would already do, in that new situation, by providing them with red herrings.

I know you said “drunk”, but it doesn’t matter how drunk someone is; unless they’re a very new player, they won’t gear a warrior in intellect plate.

Just to reiterate – I think there should be choices, just that none of them should be considered bad/unusable.

That is where our opinion differs, I believe. In my view there are no bad, let alone unusable, choices in this game. Not all the options will work for speed clearing dungeons but the game is called Guild Wars 2 and not Dungeon Cleaner 2012.

With the intellect plate warrior example I was trying to emphasize, though with a bit of exaggeration, that when you equalize everything, you make it so that players don’t have to think about what choices they make. Funnily enough, you no longer can equip intellect plate on your warrior by accident because quests, vendors, loot bags and instances not only automatically reward you with the optimal gear/stat combination for your class/spec but the stats adjust when you switch specialization.

“You liked to run around in a mix of agility / defense leather gear and intellect accessories as a restoration druid because you enjoyed having better damage / defense while still having access to your entire healing kit at the cost of weaker heals? Too bad for you then! It’s not optimal and we at Blizzard Entertainment know what’s good for you. You’ll have access to nothing but healer gear from now on and you’ll be pleased about it.”

Condition damage isn’t useless. Healing power isn’t useless. Toughness isn’t useless. Vitality isn’t useless. Nor is any of them bad. Will you want to bring soldier gear to dungeons? Probably not. Will you want to bring berserker gear to world bosses? Probably not. Can you still do? Yes. Can you succeed? Yes.

There are choices. Don’t try to force yourself on the groups that wish to play the game differently than you. I can’t dodge worth a hoot so I will never play with berserker gear on and never join groups that demand me to do so. On the other hand, I love healing and play a healer/supporter in every game. There’s no healer role in GW2 but I have the choice to get shaman or magi gear on my elementalist and go to town in water attunement, swapping to other elements between Geyser/Healing Rain cooldown to give buffs, cleanse debuffs and cast debuffs. It’s not optimal but it works and works well enough for me to have a place in any content I wish to do.

As for newbies… this game is perhaps the most newbie friendly I ever played. Especially since they revamped the new player experience. I didn’t have much trouble back when the game launched and now coming back with a new account and new character I have zero issues. Features are unlocked slowly instead of being heaped up on you at the start, the pop-ups are more extensive (also, better timed) and tutorials are better integrated into the game itself, like the dodging challenge.

Tea.7025:

but the game is called Guild Wars 2 and not Dungeon Cleaner 2012.

The 1% of the players that post in the forums however won’t believe that. When they
created their first chars, they awoke inside of Ascalon and have never found a way
to get outside .. only paths that directly leed to other dungeons

For the 1% .. it was a quote from our german CM here :
https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mehr-Transparenz-beim-Runden-Tisch/416077

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

That approach will never be for me, unfortunately.

I will never be truly happy in a game where I can’t play on the class and/or with the weapons I prefer; especially in relatively casual group content.

When I think about that and then think about playing endless “Follow my leader.” in WvW, it becomes more and more apparent why people, who have played WoW, just end up (eventually) shrugging sadly and going back to it.

Because, even though it’s also flawed (and 10 years old!), it’s just a fundamentally more solid game.

I should really learn to trust my first impressions and not just hope that the handsome, but somewhat slow, prince will eventually grow a brain.

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

Clearly there is something out of balance, when you simply aren’t allowed to use ranged weaps, most of the time, in most groups.

how? how is something “out of balance” when your community don’t want people purposely being inefficient in their groups?

what you need to realise is that this game is balanced around pvp. ranged weapons are like jesus in pvp, ANet very rarely (extremely rarely…) split pvp and pve balance changes, so if you go and make ranged weapons on par with melee you basically end up with people who can pewpew against tanks on points in pvp while basically dealing the same damage that they would be if they used their melee weapon, except with zero risk.

with this fact in mind, how will ranged weapons in pve ever be able to be even remotely on par with melee ones when the game balance isnt even designed around pve?

to be honest, here’s what i say. if you want to use ranged weapons when you do dungeons, whatever. like, stick on double ranged sets and go to town with it. if you make a dungeon group without any specific requirements, start doing this and get called out on it, well that person has no right to say anything because they joined a nondescript dungeon group and if they don’t like it they can do one and leave. hell, i’ve joined groups using my condition warrior build and nobody even raised an eyebrow over it and things went along just fine.

so to answer the title of this thread:

no, metas are not killing this game. metas are a concept that exist in every single multiplayer game literally in existence, and with this comes whiners who complain about the meta – and they will do this even as the meta shifts. in magic: the gathering, when you have a predominantly aggro meta, people complain that turn 5 doesn’t even exist anymore, when midrange becomes powerful you get people complaining the game gets drawn out in to turn 20 wars of attrition won by topdecks. when control becomes powerful, aggro players whine that the game goes to turn 30 with the control player basically brain afk passing the turn until they dig out their one win condition in their deck and sweeping the board over and over again. when combo becomes the meta, people complain that they can’t interact with it.

exploits are mostly being fixed and 95% of this community doesn’t even know how to identify an exploit versus clever positioning. line of sighting mobs is positioning, pulling mossman in to the water so you can brain afk kill him is exploiting.

maddoctor.2738:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

I’m not disputing any of that, but that doesn’t stop people requiring people to use certain classes/weapons/builds etc. in group situations.

Or people viewing one class/weapon/build as superior to another.

maha.7902:

Clearly there is something out of balance, when you simply aren’t allowed to use ranged weaps, most of the time, in most groups.

how? how is something “out of balance” when your community don’t want people purposely being inefficient in their groups?

There is nothing wrong with people not wanting people to be purposely inefficient.

There is something wrong, however, with the fact that a class, or weapon, choice is inefficient.

what you need to realise is that this game is balanced around pvp. ranged weapons are like jesus in pvp, ANet very rarely (extremely rarely…) split pvp and pve balance changes, so if you go and make ranged weapons on par with melee you basically end up with people who can pewpew against tanks on points in pvp while basically dealing the same damage that they would be if they used their melee weapon, except with zero risk.

I understand that, in theory, but I don’t feel I have “zero risk” in zergs, on ranger; far from it, in fact.

with this fact in mind, how will ranged weapons in pve ever be able to be even remotely on par with melee ones when the game balance isnt even designed around pve?

As I say, there are multiple, well established, ways to balance things.

You can look to other games for all that.

If the game will only ever be balanced around PVP, in a very simplistic way, then (even though I only really do WvW, ATM), it will never be the game for me, in the long run.

I know I could make my own groups, but I don’t really want to (permanently) be the quirky, poor relation type player, who does inefficient things, just for fun.

I want to be able to play on an equal footing.

If that will never be possible, then fine; this isn’t the game for me.

Tigaseye.2047:

maddoctor.2738:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

I’m not disputing any of that, but that doesn’t stop people requiring people to use certain classes/weapons/builds etc. in group situations.

Or people viewing one class/weapon/build as superior to another.

That’s the “meta wannabes” or really bad players who only want to follow rules and builds created by others. A bad player will be terrible even if they use the “best” meta build. I still remember when those wannabes required 4 Warriors + 1 Mesmer for an “optimal” dungeon group even though that wasn’t optimal at all, same goes with people not wanting certain classes in their party.

Unfortunately teaching randoms how bad they are isn’t very easy and usually results in a kick from the group by them and their other friends.

Unfortunately after all this time running the same dungeons over and over players found out ways to blast through content as fast as possible by bringing very specific builds / skills. You can already see LFG posts like “LF Thief, Guardian and Elementalist”, the exact thing Anet didn’t want to do in this game (the dreaded LF Tank/Healer) is already happening.

The upcoming trait change will fix some of that, at least for some time, let’s see for how long.

There is nothing wrong with people not wanting people to be purposely inefficient.
There is something wrong, however, with the fact that a class, or weapon, choice is inefficient.

but there isn’t anything wrong with that at all. other things will always be better than other things. it will always be better for me to take a tier 1 deck in to a magic: the gathering tournament than some tier 2 gimmick “fun” deck. it’ll always be better for me, if given the choice to stick a cheaper counterspell in to my deck than a more expensive one with nicer art if the function I want them to fill is identical (compare “counterspell” and “cancel” – two cards with literally identical function but one is more expensive to cast than the other). you could kind of compare this to taking a mesmer versus a guardian for dungeons – a guardian can reach their peak dps a lot faster than a mesmer and can still fulfill the function of reflects along with a bunch of other goodies, whereas mesmers have more of a ramp up time for their dps while their reflects still function identical to that of the guardian.

I understand that, in theory, but I don’t feel I have “zero risk” in zergs, on ranger; far from it, in fact.

you’d be getting your face blown off if you took melee sets. I used to take a full glass mesmer in to wvw like a year or so back with gs/sw+f and if I ran in with the melee train I would basically be immediately popped. staying back at range iwth greatsword and then making pulls with focus put me in a far safer position. ranged weapons have far lower risk than melee.

As I say, there are multiple, well established, ways to balance things.

You can look to other games for all that.

well there’s two games in my head right now. in dragon age inquisition, ranged damage dealers have literally zero risk since your tank holds aggro and the archer sits back and does like a billion damage. in league of legends, ranged champions have lower base stats and are forced to build almost zero defenses which makes it very easy to get popped by assassins on the other team. so to me, the only way to make ranged have similar risk to melee is for the ranged player to be a priority target, but then you end up with them having to kite around while the meleers chase the enemies which literally sounds like the least fun thing I can think of.

If the game will only ever be balanced around PVP, in a very simplistic way, then (even though I only really do WvW, ATM), it will never be the game for me, in the long run.

so it’s taken you what, three years to realise this isn’t the game for you? why don’t you just leave already?

I know I could make my own groups, but I don’t really want to (permanently) be the quirky, poor relation type player, who does inefficient things, just for fun.

so the tl;dr is basically that you want to be inefficient but can’t be bothered to make your own group for it. well that’s a problem then isn’t it good sir? you can’t have your cake and eat it? I mean I sure as hell wish I could sit on my kitten , play league all day, never have to show up to work and still get paid every month but life doesn’t work like that.

I want to be able to play on an equal footing.

and as long as you wish to play suboptimally when there are optimal solutions out there, you will never play on an equal footing.

Tigaseye.2047:

maddoctor.2738:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

I’m not disputing any of that, but that doesn’t stop people requiring people to use certain classes/weapons/builds etc. in group situations.

Or people viewing one class/weapon/build as superior to another.

Maybe you should just not group with those people.. There will ALWAYS be people who want to do things the quickest and mos efficient way, complaining they exist and asking the game be changed so they can’t is pretty stupid.

Stop complaining and form your own groups with your own parameters.

What’s heartbreaking is that regardless of any meta, with a little love on the enemy AI, and the skills given to the enemy, exploits and glitches could easily be overcome.

Pure Heart.1456:

What’s heartbreaking is that regardless of any meta, with a little love on the enemy AI, and the skills given to the enemy, exploits and glitches could easily be overcome.

This is a valid point, PvE AI improvements would go a long way to developping a solid game type.

I can’t believe people actually take that Nemesis guy seriously. He’s so full of himself it hurts.

That aside – to the OP :

Here’s the deal – people glitch and exploit because they don’t care about the content. If Anet wants the glitches and exploits to go away they should fix their game. Simple as that.

When everybody plays for the rewards and only the rewards don’t expect people to care about the content.

if the dungeon vendors were inside the dungeons and they changed the rewards to tokens per mob cleared then they would have to do the dungeon properly rather than speed run the end to claim the treasure.

Adding the dungeon weapon drops to the dungeons themselfs rather than the vendors would encourage people to kill mobs or do content on the chance of getting said weapon and saving tokens.

the current dungeon reward system just encourages people to skip content because there is no rewards inbetween apart from Junk mostly and no reason to kill mobs as all the GOOD stuff is at the end..really a shame to miss all those chances for a precurser drop too.

I’ve made a thread last month about how bad exploits are… got flamed by 99% of the posters there. I strongly agree that Anet should fix the dungeon mechanics to avoid this.

IT’S COUNTER INTUITIVE.

I felt bad when I was a new player and didn’t knew about any of these “hack runs”, knows as: resetting mobs, doing wall things, exploiting stuff. I still feel bad for the new people that don’t know this stuff and end being the only ones that can’t cross a mob-infested gauntlet that is only happening because the “exp” players want to reset them on a specific location.

No, I can’t avoid “exp only” groups to not worry about this. Even in regular groups, players get mad when someone don’t know about certain exploit and got trouble through it.

I don’t NEED to google exploits just to have a successful run. I do NEED to know about how my class works, and how the enemy behaves, and follow the dungeon’s events, THAT’S ALL.

Ah, and yes, the meta being zerk is very annoying, because pigeonholes everyone to a certain build and even excludes one whole class (necro). I don’t have a clue on how to address that though.

Coulter.2315:

Tigaseye.2047:

maddoctor.2738:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

I’m not disputing any of that, but that doesn’t stop people requiring people to use certain classes/weapons/builds etc. in group situations.

Or people viewing one class/weapon/build as superior to another.

Maybe you should just not group with those people.. There will ALWAYS be people who want to do things the quickest and mos efficient way, complaining they exist and asking the game be changed so they can’t is pretty stupid.

Stop complaining and form your own groups with your own parameters.

What if you’re not the type of leading a group?

I don’t complain about speedruns, though, because it’s usually advertised. I do think it’s bad for these groups to rely on exploits to do their job. These exploits are not supposed to happen regardless.

yhvh.8703:

Coulter.2315:

Tigaseye.2047:

maddoctor.2738:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ultimately, I think the truth is that this is essentially a “Bring the class/weapon(s)/build.” game (and then play in a very formulaic way); rather than a “Bring the player.” (and then play in a more freeform/flexible way) game.

Actually in this game having a “good/solid” build will never make a player better. Player skill is more important than gear or build, so it’s actually a “Bring the player” game and not a “bring the class/weapon(s)/build” game.

A good player in blue/green gear will outperform a bad player in full ascended. Proof? Good players run dungeons naked, good players finish the hardest dungeons naked using only Rangers will longbows and bear pets.

I’m not disputing any of that, but that doesn’t stop people requiring people to use certain classes/weapons/builds etc. in group situations.

Or people viewing one class/weapon/build as superior to another.

Maybe you should just not group with those people.. There will ALWAYS be people who want to do things the quickest and mos efficient way, complaining they exist and asking the game be changed so they can’t is pretty stupid.

Stop complaining and form your own groups with your own parameters.

What if you’re not the type of leading a group?

I don’t complain about speedruns, though, because it’s usually advertised. I do think it’s bad for these groups to rely on exploits to do their job. These exploits are not supposed to happen regardless.

You can’t have it both ways. Be to lazy to create your own groups while at the same time demand others play the game your way. It’s one or the other in situations where those 2 aren’t alined.

I agree on the exploits point. Unfortunately peoples definition of exploits in this game are very wide. Some consider the predictable AI as an exploit, some call it clever use of game mechanics. For the big picture though, getting exploits fixed would be a good thing yes.

If anyone is going to claim that skipping enemies that drop trash loot, if any at all, is not playing the dungeon properly, please prove it. By this I mean a post from Anet that clearly states that it is not playing the dungeons properly. Otherwise it’s just your own opinions and your situation can easily be rectified by using the LFG system to create your own groups specifying the way that you want to play.

When ever some one tells me how to play my class i just remember this

and then ignore them

Animosity.5968:

So I’ve played since launch and lately I cant even log in because the game is so boring to me. I PvE, mostly dungeon or fotm and this zerker meta is literally killing the game. Just recently a old gw2 member named Nemesis uploaded a video on this subject and he hit alot of points that I’ve noticed and even more than I didn’t notice. (GJ nemesis!)

So this meta is all about DPS, Corner stacking, Glitching and exploiting.. Some evidence…

-The meta is DPS because its all Zerker gear (out of the 23 stat prefix’s, guess anet just wanted to make different stat gear for giggles)

-Corner stacking doesn’t need evidence, everyone has done it but it’s common in MMO’s and isn’t a problem unless it’s mixed with the other 3 parts of the meta.

-Glitching is a serious problem but people do it and it’s literally accepted as part of the meta. A few examples are CM attacking people through walls, CM climbing wall by Frost in P1 to take 0 damage, CM P2 running the boss between 2 plateau’s to become completely stuck, etc. I only mentioned CM but there’s glitching in every dungeon, just youtube “gw2 Glitch (whatever dungeon)” and you’ll be met with video proof.

- Exploiting is just stupid and yet people still do it to Lupi with reflecting his attacks to down him in seconds. Obviously this isn’t challenging content for a boss in a dungeon yet now it’s accepted as ok? wtf man. There are more but I draw a fine line between glitching and exploiting so i’ll let you choose.

So as nemesis states in his video “Gw2 abondonded the holy trinity to become…just dps?” It’s literally gotten to a point where people are stating that certain classes are sub par and should not be taken for optimal dps. How is this better? I for one think it’s literally ludicious and now with HoT coming I’m sending the Dev’s a message…" You have the opportunity to fix what has been left to grow into such a big problem. The ball’s in your court, Please stay true to your word to make this MMO the be all end all MMO"

Just so you know (Nemesis says this as well), 3.5 million copies of the game has been sold since launch but only 443k views on the expansion reveal video. These number’s are fairly alarming as the majority of players still interested in the game would of watched the video already. New or returning players will be greeted by looking up videos of corner stacking, glitching, all dps numbers and most likely turn away from the game as it’s bad advertising.

What does everyone else think about gw2 current state? Is all this ok?

Link to Nemesis video as it’s very informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js5ltIBr73s

- Gear is a bit difficult to obtain, so most people ask and obtain the gear that makes them viable in the most content. If you make content that is impossible for berserkers, many people won’t do it simply because they dont have the gear for it.

This comment basically kills your thread. People don’t want to change their gear all the time, especially with the limited storage and the high price of bank tabs. Not to mention exotic being soulbound and if u have multiple chars you’ll quickly need few hundred dollars in bank tabs. I don’t care about armor stats. I want to press a button and i want to see the enemy HP going down with double digit percent. I don’t want to be forced to run Soldier’s. I want weight on my attacks. Going berserker is a nice balance between risk/reward because of the way the combat is designed.

You can dodge/block anything. Every monster that is able to ignore these conditions (block/reflect/dodge) is irritating to most people. There is no “player skill” in this. You just have to buff up your toughness/vitality and take it out with Auto attack and some passive regen.

Though I agree that glitching/exploiting should be bannable offense. Especially if the offender is being kitten about forcing everyone to “do it or kick” or abuse people verbally for not wanting to exploit. These scrubs should dealt with low orbit ion cannon immediately.

Ayrilana.1396:

If anyone is going to claim that skipping enemies that drop trash loot, if any at all, is not playing the dungeon properly, please prove it. By this I mean a post from Anet that clearly states that it is not playing the dungeons properly. Otherwise it’s just your own opinions and your situation can easily be rectified by using the LFG system to create your own groups specifying the way that you want to play.

To be fair, if the developers who made the dungeons didn’t want us to fight those enemies then they wouldn’t have put them in there to begin with. They probably thought that managing trash mobs that have crowd control abilties and often managing them while dodging enviromental dangers (gargoyles, spike traps, poison gas, etc.) or completing objectives (collecting items, protecting an NPC, etc.) at the same time would make for an exciting encounter.

They weren’t wrong either. It’s just that when someone is running the instance for the reward and not for the fun of it, which is the case for the majority of players at this point, then they will want to make that run as efficient as possible.

Tea.7025:

Ayrilana.1396:

If anyone is going to claim that skipping enemies that drop trash loot, if any at all, is not playing the dungeon properly, please prove it. By this I mean a post from Anet that clearly states that it is not playing the dungeons properly. Otherwise it’s just your own opinions and your situation can easily be rectified by using the LFG system to create your own groups specifying the way that you want to play.

To be fair, if the developers who made the dungeons didn’t want us to fight those enemies then they wouldn’t have put them in there to begin with. They probably thought that managing trash mobs that have crowd control abilties and often managing them while dodging enviromental dangers (gargoyles, spike traps, poison gas, etc.) or completing objectives (collecting items, protecting an NPC, etc.) at the same time would make for an exciting encounter.

They weren’t wrong either. It’s just that when someone is running the instance for the reward and not for the fun of it, which is the case for the majority of players at this point, then they will want to make that run as efficient as possible.

Usually when you skip mobs you use some skills to do so, like stealth. If the developers wanted us to fight all trash mobs in a dungeon then they wouldn’t allow mass stealth in dungeons.

I agree everything would be much better if we had to grind multiple gear sets.

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

Tea.7025:

Ayrilana.1396:

If anyone is going to claim that skipping enemies that drop trash loot, if any at all, is not playing the dungeon properly, please prove it. By this I mean a post from Anet that clearly states that it is not playing the dungeons properly. Otherwise it’s just your own opinions and your situation can easily be rectified by using the LFG system to create your own groups specifying the way that you want to play.

To be fair, if the developers who made the dungeons didn’t want us to fight those enemies then they wouldn’t have put them in there to begin with. They probably thought that managing trash mobs that have crowd control abilties and often managing them while dodging enviromental dangers (gargoyles, spike traps, poison gas, etc.) or completing objectives (collecting items, protecting an NPC, etc.) at the same time would make for an exciting encounter.

They weren’t wrong either. It’s just that when someone is running the instance for the reward and not for the fun of it, which is the case for the majority of players at this point, then they will want to make that run as efficient as possible.

I’d agree for AC, skipping there is easy. Now, I get to Arah, and the skips are some of the best things. Fighting the trash isn’t really all that hard, but getting through a long skip without getting blown up… that’s a challenge I enjoy.

The way they set up the choke points and the enemies they chose for them make me think that it was very intended to be that way.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Guys stop bumping this thread. Its obvious the OP saw the video he posted and only cherry picked the things that align with his point of view. The guy on the video makes fair points. He’s not saying “LOLOL REMOVE ZERK GEAR LOLOL 28 GEAR STATS LOLOL”. He’s suggesting to change the encounters so they are not just DPS checks, adding things like infiltration and various other non-combat mechanics. Thit is more agreeable.

The OP is missing the point. Nobody wants to grind for extra sets just because some trinity lover decided they should have trinity.

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

I disagree. GW2 solves the problem that is the nonsensical (or outright idiotic) concept of trinity play.

The cool thing is that there are many trinity games available for those who prefer such.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

The trinity by itself was invented for mmorpgs to force players to form teams instead of playing solo. It’s a relic of the past that needs to go away from every genre in existence. It’s only ever used in mmorpgs and it is a sad day when non-mmorpg real rpgs “try” to bring trinity in their mechanics.

So having a trinity doesn’t make a good game. What people need to understand is that in GW2 every player needs to keep themselves alive, there is no babysitting or horrible aggro mechanics to save bad players.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

That’s only because you haven’t fully understood and embraced what ANet did. I don’t feel it’s worth my time to further explain something that’s been repeated on a daily basis.

And cars without seatbelts would be fine if everyone were a good enough driver to avoid collisions.

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

I disagree. GW2 solves the problem that is the nonsensical (or outright idiotic) concept of trinity play.

The cool thing is that there are many trinity games available for those who prefer such.

Care to elaborate on how trinity is nonsensical and idiotic?

Also, how is trinity disappearing, when MOBA games, which have overtaken MMOs at a frightening speed, are entirely based on the trinity system? League of Legends, DotA, Smite, HotS, all of these are based purely on the trinity system and they’re in much faster growth than any MMO.

GW2 is just a “back to the origins” MMO, a final breath of a disappearing game genre.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

I disagree. GW2 solves the problem that is the nonsensical (or outright idiotic) concept of trinity play.

The cool thing is that there are many trinity games available for those who prefer such.

Care to elaborate on how trinity is nonsensical and idiotic?

Also, how is trinity disappearing, when MOBA games, which have overtaken MMOs at a frightening speed, are entirely based on the trinity system? League of Legends, DotA, Smite, HotS, all of these are based purely on the trinity system and they’re in much faster growth than any MMO.

GW2 is just a “back to the origins” MMO, a final breath of a disappearing game genre.

Find the part where it has only three roles, or even mentions “healer” or “tank”: http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/02/2015-champion-tier-list-ranked-3s.html

Similarly, not all MMOs have a trinity since well before GW2.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

I disagree. GW2 solves the problem that is the nonsensical (or outright idiotic) concept of trinity play.

The cool thing is that there are many trinity games available for those who prefer such.

Care to elaborate on how trinity is nonsensical and idiotic?

Also, how is trinity disappearing, when MOBA games, which have overtaken MMOs at a frightening speed, are entirely based on the trinity system? League of Legends, DotA, Smite, HotS, all of these are based purely on the trinity system and they’re in much faster growth than any MMO.

1) I never claimed that trinity was disappearing from MOBA games. Never mentioned them.

2) Nonsensical/idiotic for the simple fact that, by design, foes in trinity games are idiots and act nonsensically. Insisting on attacking the nigh invulnerable character who does minimal damage while ignoring the characters actually doing the damage that will bring him down and the character keeping everyone going through healing magic is bad. Game designers who created the concept should be ashamed of dumbing down fantasy gaming in that manner.

Luckily there are many trinity games out there for those who need trinity to enjoy their mmo. GW2 was promoted as avoiding traditional mmo trinity. Thats a big part of why I bought the game. I really think that those who need trinity to enjoy a game and yet bought a game advertised as being anti-trinity should examine their decision making processes (for example):

I want X in my game
games A – Y have X
game Z does not have X and is not intended to have it
I am going to buy game Z instead of games A – Y

This is not a particularly good decision.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

maha.7902:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

the “zerk crowd” is the most “irritating, obnoxious crowd”?

how about those people shoving trinity posts on these boards every single day down our throats constantly demonstrating their complete lack of understanding of how this game works, spewing nonsense like “support and CC don’t matter in this game” when their claims are entirely inaccurate? how about how those same people have sat here with this game for three years and not thought for one second maybe they should play something else if they want a trinity?

both sides need to learn respect, but don’t even pretend that the “casual” (inverted commas since I can’t think of a better word to describe less dedicated players who want ANet to mold the game in the way they want) crowd is immaculate here, in fact they’re the ones constantly drawing the ire of the “zerk crowd” in these heated threads every single day.

Do you understand though, that GW2 is not an improved version of trinity, but rather a step back? Trinity is the fix for this situation. Trinity was invented in order to prevent the scenario you see in GW2.

GW2 is actually taking a step back when chosing this gameplay. It’s as if car producers suddenly decided to start building cars without seatbelts.

I disagree. GW2 solves the problem that is the nonsensical (or outright idiotic) concept of trinity play.

The cool thing is that there are many trinity games available for those who prefer such.

Care to elaborate on how trinity is nonsensical and idiotic?

Also, how is trinity disappearing, when MOBA games, which have overtaken MMOs at a frightening speed, are entirely based on the trinity system? League of Legends, DotA, Smite, HotS, all of these are based purely on the trinity system and they’re in much faster growth than any MMO.

GW2 is just a “back to the origins” MMO, a final breath of a disappearing game genre.

Find the part where it has only three roles, or even mentions “healer” or “tank”: http://www.nerfplz.com/2015/02/2015-champion-tier-list-ranked-3s.html

Similarly, not all MMOs have a trinity since well before GW2.

[gaming lesson]
Trinity is a broad term for “class interdependence”. In the case of WoW, there aren’t only 3 roles either, since there are well more classes than that, but they can be classed into three major categories, which is why people refer to it as a trinity.

Damage: Nukers (AoE magical), assassins (single target), Fighters (melee DPS), Off-tanks (hybrids), poison stackers (DoT classes), and so on.
Defence: Tanks (high HP CC), Bruisers (high HP with damage), Paladins (high HP healers), etc.
Support: Clerics (full healing class), Buffers (buff-oriented classes), scouts, CC supportive classes, and so on.

These are just some very rough examples of builds/classes games generall have. The presence of trinity is detected by the fact a team can’t run properly without at least two or three of these roles. You can’t go into a dungeon with nukers only in WoW, you’ll die instantly. You generally won’t do well in LoL with a full assassin team, you will get destroyed by CC in team fights.

GW2 just decided to remove all of this team strategy that had evolved for years in games in an attempt to look “original”. Just because something is original, it doesn’t make it better.

[/gaming lesson]

The lack of a trinity doesn’t make the party system better. You have had 3 years to make your point about your system working. In 3 years, you have ONLY managed to produce one PvE gear meta. In 3 years, the forums and community are constantly argueing about the zerk meta problem, which is kitten in this game. I think that you have had plenty enough time to prove your point, and failed to do so. It would be healthy of you to admit being wrong, but hey, that’s just friendly advice for yourself. I don’t need you to admit anything to me, I already know you are wrong.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

[gaming lesson]
Trinity is a broad term for “class interdependence”. In the case of WoW, there aren’t only 3 roles either, since there are well more classes than that, but they can be classed into three major categories, which is why people refer to it as a trinity.

Damage: Nukers (AoE magical), assassins (single target), Fighters (melee DPS), Off-tanks (hybrids), poison stackers (DoT classes), and so on.
Defence: Tanks (high HP CC), Bruisers (high HP with damage), Paladins (high HP healers), etc.
Support: Clerics (full healing class), Buffers (buff-oriented classes), scouts, CC supportive classes, and so on.

These are just some examples of builds/classes games generall have. The presence of trinity is detected by the fact a team can’t run properly without at least two or three of these roles. You can’t go into a dungeon with nukers only in WoW, you’ll die instantly. You generally won’t do well in LoL with a full assassin team, you will get destroyed by CC in team fights.

GW2 just decided to remove all of this team strategy that had evolved for years in games in an attempt to look “original”. Just because something is original, it doesn’t make it better.

[/gaming lesson]

The lack of a trinity doesn’t make the party system better. You have had 3 years to make your point about your system working. In 3 years, you have ONLY managed to produce one PvE gear meta. In 3 years, the forums and community are constantly argueing about the zerk meta problem, which is kitten in this game. I think that you have had plenty enough time to prove your point, and failed to do so. It would be healthy of you to admit being wrong, but hey, that’s just friendly advice for yourself. I don’t need you to admit anything to me, I already know you are wrong.

So, if I took Guild War 2’s class interdependence of dps, support, and control. In which there are three very distinct styles of play that definitely have a major difference between each other outside of the fact that they can attack the opponent, I would have described a system that had a working Trinity?

Good. Thanks for your lesson.

Now here’s your lesson: Stop basing literally everything you say on gear. Gear isn’t relevant in this meta. Just because the armor type is stripped down to two different types, with one being unjustly paraded as the only one, doesn’t suddenly mean that the entire system doesn’t work. When you can have literally the same class run a different set of skills and have one deal crazy amounts of damage while the other does crazy amounts of boons, and the difference between the two of them is nearly the same as if the major dps build was running the tankiest set-up vs. its current dps, then there’s clearly a role there.

Your perception is based on a deluded sense of “If it doesn’t have a tanky class, a healing class, and a damaging class. And those can never cross paths at any point,” and not grounded on any sense of reality.

So in these three years, the meta has managed to reinvent itself over, and over, and over, but the people complaining haven’t (and yes, the gear has changed all the while. It wasn’t always Berserkers/Assassins)? Clearly the issue with the meta isn’t with the game, but with the complainers. If one cannot accept the fact that there are roles, and they generally work in the game (Control, as a role, being the only one that is lacking. Which is hopefully going to change with the Defiance Bar.), then there’s not exactly much to say. Get a new complaining meta, as it hasn’t been that effective for years.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Refusing to admit that there isn’t a problem doesn’t exist make it appear, though.

Though, your use of “son” is a bit ironic. But whatever. If you cannot accept that there is only one meta for speed clearing dungeons, and that there are a blanket of other perfectly viable options underneath it, it’s on your head. I guess.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Claiming that variety is a problem does not make it so either. You dont like GW2’s system. That doesnt make it a problem, it just means that you probably should reconsider spending money on games specifically advertised as not being for you. I dont like seafood and I dont go to seafood restaurants and complain that the menu is comprised of seafood.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Refusing to admit that there isn’t a problem doesn’t exist make it appear, though.

Though, your use of “son” is a bit ironic. But whatever. If you cannot accept that there is only one meta for speed clearing dungeons, and that there are a blanket of other perfectly viable options underneath it, it’s on your head. I guess.

Maybe you need to stop thinking about “speed clearing dungeons” and start appreciating the finer things in life.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Any person arguing with you just needs to take a look at your posting history, take a deep breath, and move on.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

I don’t care if removing the zerk meta will only give place to a new 1 gear meta. I only want to see the zerk meta gone because the zerk crowd is the most irritating, obnoxious crowd there is.

I know that the zerk tryhards would eventually adapt to whatever new meta there is, but it would be very funny to see the most stubborn of them have a taste of their own medecine for the first few weeks of the new meta.

Many people in this game need to learn respect.

You might want to take your own advice. Garth Thurgen.1380 made a very sensical observation and explanation and your comeback is “I’m right, you are wrong. Look at my achievements in other games” (and diamond is nothing to brag about in SC2 by the way ever since master and grandmaster. so you are among the top 20%, that’s not very impressive http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Battle.net_Leagues).

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Refusing to admit that there isn’t a problem doesn’t exist make it appear, though.

Though, your use of “son” is a bit ironic. But whatever. If you cannot accept that there is only one meta for speed clearing dungeons, and that there are a blanket of other perfectly viable options underneath it, it’s on your head. I guess.

Maybe you need to stop thinking about “speed clearing dungeons” and start appreciating the finer things in life.

Not playing a game that clearly isn’t for me, and not complaining about it when the development team has what I dislike as their manifesto for the game?

Or are you trying to go with the “having a wife/girlfriend”? Because that’s going elicit a giant “Uhhh….” from me.

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Claiming that variety is a problem does not make it so either. You dont like GW2’s system. That doesnt make it a problem, it just means that you probably should reconsider spending money on games specifically advertised as not being for you. I dont like seafood and I dont go to seafood restaurants and complain that the menu is comprised of seafood.

I thought this was answered already? Why are you ignoring the answer? This kind of thing has been answered MANY times in the forum.

The answer is this: the no-trinity is ONE aspect of a much larger picture. The game is advertised as being great for me except for that one stain which is the zerk meta. If a restaurant makes a great dish that I love and decides to put a poop on the side of the seafood, I will complain about the poop being there and wanting it removed asap.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Refusing to admit that there isn’t a problem doesn’t exist make it appear, though.

Though, your use of “son” is a bit ironic. But whatever. If you cannot accept that there is only one meta for speed clearing dungeons, and that there are a blanket of other perfectly viable options underneath it, it’s on your head. I guess.

Maybe you need to stop thinking about “speed clearing dungeons” and start appreciating the finer things in life.

Not playing a game that clearly isn’t for me, and not complaining about it when the development team has what I dislike as their manifesto for the game?

Or are you trying to go with the “having a wife/girlfriend”? Because that’s going elicit a giant “Uhhh….” from me.

I mean that if you were less concerned about your in game pixel wallet and less stuck up about finishing dungeons fast, you would enjoy other gear sets and other gameplay mechanics than just “the fastest”.

Geez, I have to explain English to people who actually speak English these days…

Cyninja.2954:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Any person arguing with you just needs to take a look at your posting history, take a deep breath, and move on.

Probably for the best. I only read the first and last ones, of which are from this topic + some “joining the game” stuffs. Should probably read the middle too.

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Cyninja.2954:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Any person arguing with you just needs to take a look at your posting history, take a deep breath, and move on.

Probably for the best. I only read the first and last ones, of which are from this topic + some “joining the game” stuffs. Should probably read the middle too.

You want to criticise my way of commenting?

All you ever do is take what I say out of context. You make strawmans, and you repeat arguments that have already been answered (a great example being the “don’t like it leave” fallacy).

I’m just acting rationally. At some point I realize that no amount of words will educate you because you don’t want to change your opinion, and just play along with your game. Might as well get entertainment out of you, and you provide plenty of it.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Ashen.2907:

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Garth Thurgen.1380:

Bla bla bla

Refusing to admit the problem exists doesn’t make it disappear, though.

I mean look, I have the understanding of these things. I was diamond in SC2, been in MMOs for a very long time, also play MOBAs. I can tell you son, I understand the problems. This discussion is for you, not for me.

Claiming that variety is a problem does not make it so either. You dont like GW2’s system. That doesnt make it a problem, it just means that you probably should reconsider spending money on games specifically advertised as not being for you. I dont like seafood and I dont go to seafood restaurants and complain that the menu is comprised of seafood.

I thought this was answered already? Why are you ignoring the answer? This kind of thing has been answered MANY times in the forum.

The answer is this: the no-trinity is ONE aspect of a much larger picture. The game is advertised as being great for me except for that one stain which is the zerk meta. If a restaurant makes a great dish that I love and decides to put a poop on the side of the seafood, I will complain about the poop being there and wanting it removed asap.

As you say in this post the game includes an element that contributes to the larger picture. That element was advertised. I dont buy things that are advertised as specifically and purposefully including elements that will contribute to a sense of disatisfaction with the product.

As to the meta….I dont play meta and have yet to experience any negative fallout. Gear is one portion of your character’s performance, and not the most important. No content in the game is gated against non-meta character builds, let alone against non berkerker gear wearers. Not one bit. Zero. GW2 doesnt have gearscore (or the equivalent) requirements built into encounters.